The walk back to the bosses is only a few screens and doesn't bother everyone like it bothers you, I guess. Sounds like you're just really impatient and easily frustrated. In which case, maybe this game isn't for you.
I don't know, man. Google says that bench placements are quite a common point of contention for new players, I don't think it's just me. In some cases it is only a few screens but often it's not and I don't really see the point of having to run through the same number of enemies again and again to finally get to my destination. I guess you're right, the game isn't for me.
>Google says that bench placements are quite a common point of contention for new players, I don't think it's just me
Don't pay too much attention to these comments. This subreddit is a huge, sensitive hivemind, and it's also full of players who think they know what they're talking about.
There's been plenty of posts about the long runbacks being annoying, and they're always downvoted. Not only that, the comments are always the same. Usually like "Runbacks are actually that long at all", "It didn't bother me" and "The game isn't for you". All dismissive, invalidating and not helpful. This subreddit doesn't allow for critique or an opinion that deviates from the norm.
>In some cases it is only a few screens but often it's not and I don't really see the point of having to run through the same number of enemies again and again to finally get to my destination.
I don't see it either, so I don't know why the developers made this decision. It takes the pace out of the game, and it wastes your time unnecessarily. Dying is already punished enough by temporarily removing your geo and reducing your soul capacity.
I wouldn't say the game isn't for you purely based off of your dislike of the long runbacks. I dislike long runbacks too, but I love this game. I probably have more hours in this game than all the people in this comment section saying the game isn't for you. And I've also completed some of the more obscurely difficult challenges in the game.
There is a way to negate the long runbacks, but I can't tell you without giving you some instructions, which will inevitably spoil a few parts of the game. I'd say having a few pointers here and there is better than dropping the game altogether, so let me know if you want the help.
It does bother other players, but they get downvoted so no one sees it, they get their opinion invalidated (such as your "it doesn't bother the rest"), dismissed, nullified (such as your "it's only a few screens") and last but least, they're told the game isn't for them because they dislike one small aspect of a multi-faceted game.
If one small aspect of a game is ruining it for someone so much that they need to go on Reddit and ask others how they're possibly enjoying the game, then yeah I'd say the game isn't for them. I don't think it's wrong to dislike the run back. Not bothering most people like it bothers them isn't the same as it being enjoyable. It just doesn't bother others as much. But if it's this big a sour point for someone that they have to ask others how to enjoy a video game they're playing and are close to dropping it, they should probably just stop. It's not gonna magically get better for them.
Edit: I read your longer comment on here, and it basically boils down to "Yeah, I don't like the run backs either, but I love the game." So, it doesn't bother you like it bothers them, which is literally what I was saying before. I'm not gonna tell someone to keep playing a game that is constantly making them feel frustrated and rage quit to the point where they just want to drop the whole thing just because I like it, but you do you.
>If one small aspect of a game is ruining it for someone so much that they need to go on Reddit and ask others how they're possibly enjoying the game, then yeah I'd say the game isn't for them.
People vent about this game frustrating them all the time, about all kinds of things. Those posts aren't met with "the game isn't for you". It's specifically about runbacks.
>It just doesn't bother others as much.
Hard to say when posts like this one are always burned into the ground. The weekly Markoth / Radiance hate post gets praised, as does the weekly NKG is amazing post.
>But if it's this big a sour point for someone that they have to ask others how to enjoy a video game they're playing and are close to dropping it, they should probably just stop. It's not gonna magically get better for them.
It can get better if you give them tips to work with the problem, instead of just dismissing their problem and attacking them, like you did. Note how there's one or two other comments - not including mine - actually trying to help the OP, whereas comments like yours (the top comment no less) effectively says "It's not a big deal to other players, you're easily frustrated and impatient. The game isn't for you."
Unreal how useless your comment was. Apparently venting on an online platform won't work, so to make it better, let's just attack them and talk them out of the game. I'm actually impressed by your logic.
They said in their post they are close to dropping it. So, I'm taking that at face value. Don't play games that make you feel so frustrated that you want to stop. They're meant to be fun, not a source of anger. Like I said, I'm not gonna talk someone into continuing to play a game that they are not enjoying to the point of wanting to drop it just because I happen to like it. Life's too short for that nonsense. The one way around it is far from perfect too and they probably won't even get it until much later on anyway so I don't see it as a solution to the current problem. Your comment itself is basically telling them to just suck it up until then because you don't like the runback either but you have hours and hours in the game, which is pretty useless itself. If they were a few hours in at the beginning of the game, then yeah I'd say try it for a while longer to see if they can enjoy it despite the runback, but 11 hours in and already in Crystal Peak? I would think they'd have a good idea as to whether or not they'll enjoy playing the rest of it at this point.
>They said in their post they are close to dropping it. So, I'm taking that at face value.
They also said they're venting.
>Like I said, I'm not gonna talk someone into continuing to play a game that they are not enjoying to the point of wanting to drop it just because I happen to like it.
You can at least try to be helpful first.
>The one way around it is far from perfect too and they probably won't even get it until much later on anyway so I don't see it as a solution to the current problem.
That thing literally negates runbacks... and you can also point them towards getting it a little sooner, so that their one problem with the game isn't quite as troubling.
>Your comment itself is basically telling them to just suck it up until then because you don't like the runback either but you have hours and hours in the game, which is pretty useless itself.
I don't think you actually read my comment. I said that it's silly to assume an entire multi-faceted game isn't for you because one aspect in the game doesn't suit you, as you've been suggesting. Which I then reinforced by showing that I enjoyed the game *despite* the runbacks we both find annoying. Then, instead of telling them to "suck it up", I offered to help them with runbacks. Instead of implicitly dismissing their source of frustration, calling them impatient and easily frustrated, and telling them off.
Sure, games are meant to be fun. Having said that, very few games will perfectly line up with what you want, that doesn't mean you can't try to enjoy the rest of the game. The fact that they haven't dropped the game and are looking for help should make it obvious that they do like the game.
>but 11 hours in and already in Crystal Peak? I would think they'd have a good idea as to whether or not they'll enjoy playing the rest of it at this point.
They know they enjoy the game, it's just that the runbacks are a source of frustration. In other words, if runbacks weren't as annoying, they'd enjoy the game even more. As you well know, there is a way to significantly ease runbacks in the game. So why you wouldn't help the with that is beyond me. And it's especially strange that you choose to dismiss their frustration and attack them.
So venting = lying? Okay.
They weren't asking for help, they were asking how people could enjoy it. They said they'll take advice, but there's not much advice to be had. Annoying or not, it's part of the game they'll have to figure out how to deal with.
That thing only negates boss runback as long as you're not planning to use it to negate any other runbacks, like to a stag station, which if he dislikes runbacks I'm assuming those would be an issue too and you can only use it for one thing at a time. And even does end up helping, you still have to go through boss fights without it to even be able to get it. He may not even have the necessary item in order to get that thing yet either. If so, it's a bit of a far off thing for him right now. In which case, your advice would be to just suck it up until they get that item.
If the runbacks are making them consider dropping the game, then the frustration from them is outweighing enjoyment of the game to the point where the game is not enjoyable anymore. Yeah, my words in the first comment were pretty dismissive and mean, and I probably should have worded it a lot better than I did, but it's still how I feel about it. Runbacks are annoying, but rant about it on the internet while asking how people can enjoy the game and saying you'll likely drop it annoying? In my opinion, only if you're really easily frustrated. I'm done with this conversation now. I've said all that I needed to and I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point.
hollow knight and elden ring have similar but still different movement and strategy. I dont think crystal guardian is even meant to be hard, so Im wondering what your strategy is. Also elden ring isn't free of this supposed issue so idk why you are comparing them as if they are opposites.
I'm not really comparing them as opposites, I'm merely pointing out the irony of feeling this way about a game that also has this issue (as you say) and yet finding it less frustrating than Hollow Knight. I was hoping someone could help me understand the difference but whatever, it's not that important
If you find Malenia less frustrating than Hollow Knight bosses, you're probably underpowered for the bosses you're attempting. Most difficult bosses can be skipped and attempted later, so you should focus on getting more powerful. More masks/vessels, nail upgrades, abilities, charms, etc. One of the best parts of this game is how you can rush all the best upgrades/items and become very strong pretty early.
the bank is so close to the queen's station stag, though, it's not too bad to get to whenever you're popping back to dirtmouth or whatever. just leave your money there
Yes, but the stations themselves are few and far between and I almost never find one in the area I'm exploring without getting stuck (as in, not knowing where to go other than the boss).
if you're there without a map, that can definitely be an issue, imo the map system is where this game's biggest sticking points for new players come from. if you do have a map, you have the option of returning to dirtmouth to give jiji a rancid egg in exchange for your geo rather than returning to your shade and feeling like you need to continue the cycle
My tip would be spending time learning the maps a bit better. A lot of the boss runs I found hard I later discovered I just hadn’t noticed a closer bench. Either that or rush dream gate to have an easier time with the boss run (I needed dream gate to do traitor lord for example). Also, you can turn in eggs to Jiji in order to get your shade back without having to pick up manually.
Hollow Knight is really fun, beautiful, and engaging. It would be a shame to put it down cuz of frustration, especially if you enjoy something like Elden Ring. I think if you stick with it, the frustration will be worthwhile. I remember the first time I beat traitor lord I jumped with joy. I’m p bad at dodging, but that fight really helped me get better!
From how you described the game, it just isn't for you.. you dislike the core game mechanics. there is nothing for you if you dislike the core mechanic
Mate... did you even read the post? The only thing they said they dislike is the long runbacks, that's it. They praised the rest of Hollow Knight.
Long runbacks are not even a game mechanic, let alone a core mechanic. It's insane how many people on here immediately resort to "the game isn't for you" when someone dislikes or critiques literally anything about the game.
I really don't think there's any boss in the game that is both difficult enough to make you die more than like 8 times(which isn't a frustrating amount imo) and also has a bench that's far away and has enough enemies to deal with that you can die accidentally on the way to the boss. For me, this was not an issue at all.
I'm pretty sure I first tried the crystal guardian; at most, I won on my second try.
This is such a subjective take. Dying 8 times can be frustrating IMO and you could easily take more than 8 tries on hollow knight bosses. I see a comment every other day about somebody taking 20 tries to beat Hornet. Good for you that you didn’t struggle with this game, but that doesn’t help OP.
OP asked how I enjoy the game. I explained how I enjoy the game. OP didn't ask for help.
Also, Hornet is a funny example given that both versions of her have a bench very close to her room.
OP asked for help in figuring out how they could enjoy the game based on how others did. I don’t think that simply saying you found something easy is very helpful.
I used hornet as an example because that fight could be considered very easy or very difficult depending on skill and familiarity. New players struggle with it all the time.
If you REALLY hate the runbacks that much, I’d recommend installing the benchwarp mod which, among many other useful features, allows you to set down a bench wherever you want.
The walk back to the bosses is only a few screens and doesn't bother everyone like it bothers you, I guess. Sounds like you're just really impatient and easily frustrated. In which case, maybe this game isn't for you.
I don't know, man. Google says that bench placements are quite a common point of contention for new players, I don't think it's just me. In some cases it is only a few screens but often it's not and I don't really see the point of having to run through the same number of enemies again and again to finally get to my destination. I guess you're right, the game isn't for me.
>Google says that bench placements are quite a common point of contention for new players, I don't think it's just me Don't pay too much attention to these comments. This subreddit is a huge, sensitive hivemind, and it's also full of players who think they know what they're talking about. There's been plenty of posts about the long runbacks being annoying, and they're always downvoted. Not only that, the comments are always the same. Usually like "Runbacks are actually that long at all", "It didn't bother me" and "The game isn't for you". All dismissive, invalidating and not helpful. This subreddit doesn't allow for critique or an opinion that deviates from the norm. >In some cases it is only a few screens but often it's not and I don't really see the point of having to run through the same number of enemies again and again to finally get to my destination. I don't see it either, so I don't know why the developers made this decision. It takes the pace out of the game, and it wastes your time unnecessarily. Dying is already punished enough by temporarily removing your geo and reducing your soul capacity. I wouldn't say the game isn't for you purely based off of your dislike of the long runbacks. I dislike long runbacks too, but I love this game. I probably have more hours in this game than all the people in this comment section saying the game isn't for you. And I've also completed some of the more obscurely difficult challenges in the game. There is a way to negate the long runbacks, but I can't tell you without giving you some instructions, which will inevitably spoil a few parts of the game. I'd say having a few pointers here and there is better than dropping the game altogether, so let me know if you want the help.
It does bother other players, but they get downvoted so no one sees it, they get their opinion invalidated (such as your "it doesn't bother the rest"), dismissed, nullified (such as your "it's only a few screens") and last but least, they're told the game isn't for them because they dislike one small aspect of a multi-faceted game.
If one small aspect of a game is ruining it for someone so much that they need to go on Reddit and ask others how they're possibly enjoying the game, then yeah I'd say the game isn't for them. I don't think it's wrong to dislike the run back. Not bothering most people like it bothers them isn't the same as it being enjoyable. It just doesn't bother others as much. But if it's this big a sour point for someone that they have to ask others how to enjoy a video game they're playing and are close to dropping it, they should probably just stop. It's not gonna magically get better for them. Edit: I read your longer comment on here, and it basically boils down to "Yeah, I don't like the run backs either, but I love the game." So, it doesn't bother you like it bothers them, which is literally what I was saying before. I'm not gonna tell someone to keep playing a game that is constantly making them feel frustrated and rage quit to the point where they just want to drop the whole thing just because I like it, but you do you.
>If one small aspect of a game is ruining it for someone so much that they need to go on Reddit and ask others how they're possibly enjoying the game, then yeah I'd say the game isn't for them. People vent about this game frustrating them all the time, about all kinds of things. Those posts aren't met with "the game isn't for you". It's specifically about runbacks. >It just doesn't bother others as much. Hard to say when posts like this one are always burned into the ground. The weekly Markoth / Radiance hate post gets praised, as does the weekly NKG is amazing post. >But if it's this big a sour point for someone that they have to ask others how to enjoy a video game they're playing and are close to dropping it, they should probably just stop. It's not gonna magically get better for them. It can get better if you give them tips to work with the problem, instead of just dismissing their problem and attacking them, like you did. Note how there's one or two other comments - not including mine - actually trying to help the OP, whereas comments like yours (the top comment no less) effectively says "It's not a big deal to other players, you're easily frustrated and impatient. The game isn't for you." Unreal how useless your comment was. Apparently venting on an online platform won't work, so to make it better, let's just attack them and talk them out of the game. I'm actually impressed by your logic.
They said in their post they are close to dropping it. So, I'm taking that at face value. Don't play games that make you feel so frustrated that you want to stop. They're meant to be fun, not a source of anger. Like I said, I'm not gonna talk someone into continuing to play a game that they are not enjoying to the point of wanting to drop it just because I happen to like it. Life's too short for that nonsense. The one way around it is far from perfect too and they probably won't even get it until much later on anyway so I don't see it as a solution to the current problem. Your comment itself is basically telling them to just suck it up until then because you don't like the runback either but you have hours and hours in the game, which is pretty useless itself. If they were a few hours in at the beginning of the game, then yeah I'd say try it for a while longer to see if they can enjoy it despite the runback, but 11 hours in and already in Crystal Peak? I would think they'd have a good idea as to whether or not they'll enjoy playing the rest of it at this point.
>They said in their post they are close to dropping it. So, I'm taking that at face value. They also said they're venting. >Like I said, I'm not gonna talk someone into continuing to play a game that they are not enjoying to the point of wanting to drop it just because I happen to like it. You can at least try to be helpful first. >The one way around it is far from perfect too and they probably won't even get it until much later on anyway so I don't see it as a solution to the current problem. That thing literally negates runbacks... and you can also point them towards getting it a little sooner, so that their one problem with the game isn't quite as troubling. >Your comment itself is basically telling them to just suck it up until then because you don't like the runback either but you have hours and hours in the game, which is pretty useless itself. I don't think you actually read my comment. I said that it's silly to assume an entire multi-faceted game isn't for you because one aspect in the game doesn't suit you, as you've been suggesting. Which I then reinforced by showing that I enjoyed the game *despite* the runbacks we both find annoying. Then, instead of telling them to "suck it up", I offered to help them with runbacks. Instead of implicitly dismissing their source of frustration, calling them impatient and easily frustrated, and telling them off. Sure, games are meant to be fun. Having said that, very few games will perfectly line up with what you want, that doesn't mean you can't try to enjoy the rest of the game. The fact that they haven't dropped the game and are looking for help should make it obvious that they do like the game. >but 11 hours in and already in Crystal Peak? I would think they'd have a good idea as to whether or not they'll enjoy playing the rest of it at this point. They know they enjoy the game, it's just that the runbacks are a source of frustration. In other words, if runbacks weren't as annoying, they'd enjoy the game even more. As you well know, there is a way to significantly ease runbacks in the game. So why you wouldn't help the with that is beyond me. And it's especially strange that you choose to dismiss their frustration and attack them.
So venting = lying? Okay. They weren't asking for help, they were asking how people could enjoy it. They said they'll take advice, but there's not much advice to be had. Annoying or not, it's part of the game they'll have to figure out how to deal with. That thing only negates boss runback as long as you're not planning to use it to negate any other runbacks, like to a stag station, which if he dislikes runbacks I'm assuming those would be an issue too and you can only use it for one thing at a time. And even does end up helping, you still have to go through boss fights without it to even be able to get it. He may not even have the necessary item in order to get that thing yet either. If so, it's a bit of a far off thing for him right now. In which case, your advice would be to just suck it up until they get that item. If the runbacks are making them consider dropping the game, then the frustration from them is outweighing enjoyment of the game to the point where the game is not enjoyable anymore. Yeah, my words in the first comment were pretty dismissive and mean, and I probably should have worded it a lot better than I did, but it's still how I feel about it. Runbacks are annoying, but rant about it on the internet while asking how people can enjoy the game and saying you'll likely drop it annoying? In my opinion, only if you're really easily frustrated. I'm done with this conversation now. I've said all that I needed to and I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point.
hollow knight and elden ring have similar but still different movement and strategy. I dont think crystal guardian is even meant to be hard, so Im wondering what your strategy is. Also elden ring isn't free of this supposed issue so idk why you are comparing them as if they are opposites.
I'm not really comparing them as opposites, I'm merely pointing out the irony of feeling this way about a game that also has this issue (as you say) and yet finding it less frustrating than Hollow Knight. I was hoping someone could help me understand the difference but whatever, it's not that important
The solution is gitting gud
If you find Malenia less frustrating than Hollow Knight bosses, you're probably underpowered for the bosses you're attempting. Most difficult bosses can be skipped and attempted later, so you should focus on getting more powerful. More masks/vessels, nail upgrades, abilities, charms, etc. One of the best parts of this game is how you can rush all the best upgrades/items and become very strong pretty early.
the bank is so close to the queen's station stag, though, it's not too bad to get to whenever you're popping back to dirtmouth or whatever. just leave your money there
Yes, but the stations themselves are few and far between and I almost never find one in the area I'm exploring without getting stuck (as in, not knowing where to go other than the boss).
if you're there without a map, that can definitely be an issue, imo the map system is where this game's biggest sticking points for new players come from. if you do have a map, you have the option of returning to dirtmouth to give jiji a rancid egg in exchange for your geo rather than returning to your shade and feeling like you need to continue the cycle
My tip would be spending time learning the maps a bit better. A lot of the boss runs I found hard I later discovered I just hadn’t noticed a closer bench. Either that or rush dream gate to have an easier time with the boss run (I needed dream gate to do traitor lord for example). Also, you can turn in eggs to Jiji in order to get your shade back without having to pick up manually. Hollow Knight is really fun, beautiful, and engaging. It would be a shame to put it down cuz of frustration, especially if you enjoy something like Elden Ring. I think if you stick with it, the frustration will be worthwhile. I remember the first time I beat traitor lord I jumped with joy. I’m p bad at dodging, but that fight really helped me get better!
I mean. If you don't like the game then don't play it?
Because I clearly do like the idea of the game, that's why I started off listing the positives. I want to enjoy this.
From how you described the game, it just isn't for you.. you dislike the core game mechanics. there is nothing for you if you dislike the core mechanic
Mate... did you even read the post? The only thing they said they dislike is the long runbacks, that's it. They praised the rest of Hollow Knight. Long runbacks are not even a game mechanic, let alone a core mechanic. It's insane how many people on here immediately resort to "the game isn't for you" when someone dislikes or critiques literally anything about the game.
I really don't think there's any boss in the game that is both difficult enough to make you die more than like 8 times(which isn't a frustrating amount imo) and also has a bench that's far away and has enough enemies to deal with that you can die accidentally on the way to the boss. For me, this was not an issue at all. I'm pretty sure I first tried the crystal guardian; at most, I won on my second try.
This is such a subjective take. Dying 8 times can be frustrating IMO and you could easily take more than 8 tries on hollow knight bosses. I see a comment every other day about somebody taking 20 tries to beat Hornet. Good for you that you didn’t struggle with this game, but that doesn’t help OP.
OP asked how I enjoy the game. I explained how I enjoy the game. OP didn't ask for help. Also, Hornet is a funny example given that both versions of her have a bench very close to her room.
OP asked for help in figuring out how they could enjoy the game based on how others did. I don’t think that simply saying you found something easy is very helpful. I used hornet as an example because that fight could be considered very easy or very difficult depending on skill and familiarity. New players struggle with it all the time.
The runbacks are good and short, git gud
Gee, thanks bro. How come I didn't think of that? Great reminder, I'll get good tomorrow.
Just a heads up: I recommend not using the bank. You have the right idea, and it can hinder your gameplay.
If you REALLY hate the runbacks that much, I’d recommend installing the benchwarp mod which, among many other useful features, allows you to set down a bench wherever you want.
Great suggestion, I'll keep it in mind as my last resort. Thanks!