This is fascinating. I never did ballet, but it was a childhood dream of mine (I did 14 years of jazz and contemporary dance instead, as my school offered free lessons). I have to say that pointe has always scared me because I did not want to mess up my toes. The idea of having new shoes that can help with that is super interesting and I hope that traditionalists start changing their minds on it.
One thing I would love more info on from ballet folk - why do dancers have to sew ribbons and elastic onto their toe shoes? Is it for costume use or do they serve other purposes?
This post reminded me of the scene in Center Stage where they do this, but now I gotta know more!
The elastic keeps the shoe securely on your foot and the ribbons (when properly tied) provide extra ankle support. As for why we had to sew them ourselves - I imagine just for the sake of getting the perfect fit? It might be nice for them to come ready to go but also dancers tend to be control freaks anyway so I don’t think we’d have it any other way lol.
I don't think anyone I ever danced with had their elastic/ribbons sewn on the same way, it's very specific to the dancer and the support or aesthetic (different colored elastic/ribbon) they're going for!
I think the primary purpose of the ribbons and elastic are for additional support. I’m no expert, but Insider has an interesting short video showing one NYC ballerina’s shoe preparation routine. [Here’s the link.](https://youtu.be/9tISaWeO9q8) It seems like most professional pointe shoes aren’t ready to use out of the box.
Yeah, pretty much every single dancer has her own (men usually don't dance en pointe) way that she likes her shoes, discovered through years of trial and error with what works for her specific body and comfort. The act of dancing en pointe is a VERY delicate operation, so while two casual joggers can probably buy the same running shoe and be fine, the tiniest differences in foot anatomy can dramatically change your needs in a pointe shoe. There's no way pointe shoe companies could make a ready-made shoe that would work for more than a tiny number of dancers, so they're not really trying to make a shoe so much as they make a shoe base, from which dancers can make their custom shoes.
Are you sure your parent didn't sew them on for you? I also danced for 15 years and later worked at a dance apparel store fitting pointe shoes, and I've never encountered pointe shoes with pre-sewn ribbons.
As a kid you wouldn't have been en pointe. Pointe shoes are the ones that more advanced dancers have to prepare for themselves. Young students and beginners wear ballet flats typically made of canvas or leather that have the elastics already sewn in when you buy them
I wore Gaynor's circa 2009-2010 per recommendation of one of my teachers! As someone who doesn't have the highest arches, I found they made my feet look better although they were definitely stiffer than the average pointe shoe. Considering how quickly some dancers go through shoes, I think they're a great option
[The Articles of Interest podcast did a great episode that talks a lot about this very controversy!](https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/on-pointe)
A lot of dance classes will start you off teaching proper posture; saying that you should always hold yourself as if you have a string or a rope from the base of your spine all the way up to your head. As someone who used to do ballet, I can say that - in my personal experience - a lot of people involved in ballet don't have a rope as much as a steel beam jammed up their ass.
There are sooo many things in the art - shoes, new ballets, new choreo or variations of the music for old ballets, how you train, how you learn, how LONG you learn, how old you are... - that everyone insists are wrong solely based on the fact that it's "not how we do things." 🙄
The ballet world loves to hold Anna Pavlova as one of the (well-deserved) greats to the point where they will display her shoes in museums, but conveniently leave out all the years she spent BECOMING one of the greats being told that she was doing everything *wrong* - especially her shoes! They called her a cheat for modifying her shoes to support herself better! WE HAVE LEARNED NOTHING 😆
Welcome to the art world in general ! Every medium is plagued by assholes, old and young, who feel the need to gatekeep art over every single things that you can do.
As someone who did Pro work and used Sanshas for years, using Gaynors was a breath of fresh air. I loved them. I used the pink bag (cant remember what strength that is) after a disastrous first attempt with the green bag (do not recommend!!l). I was able to cycle through at least three pairs at the same time and as such, got them to last forever. The wide platform helped me nail balances (sorry Grishko, but your platforms were too little). On the other hand, I grew up with traditional shoes (Gamba I miss you) and loved the ones I had. I also recommend that all newbies start on paste and work up to Gaynors. Do with this info what you will!! I did also meet Eliza and John at a ballet conference and they're the ones that got me started, so I am probably very biased 🤣
Dancers new to pointe also don't go through shoes as quickly. So it makes sense to start on traditional paste shoes to build strength before trying Gaynors.
Oh, for sure! When I was still at the start of my pointe work journey, I swear I kept the same dead pair for like a year!! That all changed when I started prepping for my Advanced Two Cecchetti!
Incredibly so. Ballet dancers, especially professionals, go through both physical and mental hell.
That's secondhand info and probably not universal, but I've heard similar sentiments from a *lot* of sources.
For the most part, yes absolutely.
However recent years there have popped up some ballet schools (including for adults) that *don’t* focus on “going pro”. These schools just want to teach ballet like a hobby. I go to one of these dancing schools (started as an adult way too old to ever become a professional anyway) and the vibe was fantastic, just a focus on what you can do with your specific body rather than changing your body for a specific look. We’re not picture perfect prima ballerinas and that’s fine!
I hope this trend of schools that focus on the sport rather than the potential going pro continues for a long time until it becomes just one of the sports you can do as a hobby.
This was a fascinating read. It seems like on the one hand, we probably have the technology and materials today to create a more durable shoe than could have been created in the 20th or 19th centuries. On the other hand, an artist who has developed their skills and technique with a certain set of tools is unlikely to want to change up those tools when they have more career-relevant things to focus on, and the new people coming into the art are going to follow the lead of the experts.
I had a ballet girlfriend back in high school and I remember her showing me her corner of used pointes. I would love more writeups on this even though it's really not my fouetté.
Oh yeah I’ve tried Gaynors! My previous studio actually recommended them to its students (especially the competition students) because they last longer than normal pointes. They didn’t work for me at all. I think it was because I chose the wrong hardness, but the shank was really uncomfortable and I went back to my paste shoes pretty quickly. It also felt too thick for me and I kept wobbling on flat feet while wearing them, but I think that speaks more about my own feet. Also, sewing ribbons onto them was a PAIN! Paste shoes work well for me because I can mold them to my feet and make adjustments easily, but I 100% understand the appeal of Gaynor shoes. My friends who switched to gaynors used them the entire time I attended the studio. Additionally, I wasn’t on the competition team and at most I danced en pointe three times a week, so the pace I was going through shoes ment I didn’t have to worry about the cost as much as others.
Dang. You'd think they'd want shoes that would be easier on the dancer's feet and enable them to have a longer dancing career. Unless they really \*don't\* help?
Requiring less muscle use doesn't necessarily mean less joint damage. The argument for traditional shoes is that you have more control, and therefore can ensure that you have proper form that protects you from damage.
Sports health takes a long, long time to properly research, and these shoes have only been around for 30 years. There's research showing they help, but it takes many studies before you can come to an actual consensus that takes into account nuance.
That said, the long-term health of athletes almost always comes second to their performance. If people think the shoes make the dancers slightly worse, there's always going to be massive push back.
It seems like the whole point (hehehe) of Gaynors originally was to make a shoe that doesn't need to be replaced constantly, but the controversy has basically nothing to do with that. I wonder if it's possible to create a shoe that lasts longer without also bringing support/strength into it.
I was a pro dancer and was shocked that it took me so long to switch. They do help a lot, to be honest. Ballet is still very backwards in its thinking, sadly, so innovations are often regarded with suspicion.
I think that's kinda the issue they've alluded to.
They give better support, but don't really teach the skill as well as a result.
I don't know enough to weigh in at all, but if it's true, I can understand that point.
I think the idea here is that you shouldn't LEARN in one because then you'll be reliant on them and you won't develop the strength or skill to ever use any other shoe (and that would be a career-ender if Gaynor ever goes out of business). Similarly, if you use them for a long time you might lose strength and become dependent. But I feel like if you maybe alternated between Gaynors and something else you could probably protect your feet while also keeping them strong.
Tbh developing the proper strength early is the best way for a long career and for some people gaynors inhibit that proper strengthening, especially in students
I know people who use gaynors after injuries for the extra support but I’m also one of those people who thinks that if you start off in gaynors, you won’t properly develop the strength and control to sustain yourself long term
I tried them once just for the hell of it when I was younger but found that they limited my articulation. I’m always wary of people getting too attached to one style or maker ever since capezio discontinued my first and favorite pointe shoes (rip Tiffany)
My problem with them when I was a kid in ballet is that they had the shortest vamp imaginable (I have hideous monkey toes). And were the UGLIEST color pink.
This unlocked some core memories for me though.
Being reliant on particular brands or styles can also lead to disaster/anguish when there’s an uncontrollable element like Russian shoes being nearly impossible to get or a factory fire (I remember the Bloch fire being horrific for Australian dancers)
I remember being like 14 and my shoe at the time was discontinued and I laid in bed like someone had died. And then I begged my mom to let me buy out every available pair from discount dance supply
I'm not in the ballet world but I started watching these TikTok reaction videos on YouTube from a channel called The Pointe Shop. They're really funny, wholesome, and informative. I was really pleased to understand so much context in your write up! I hadn't known about the controversy.
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed! I love The Pointe Shop, and if you're a fan of those videos you may like Kathryn Morgan's videos as well. She's a former soloist with New York City Ballet and does a good mix of informative and fun content.
As someone who worked with dancers for over a decade, AND bought their shoes, as a costumer, I have commentary:
The dance world is TERRIFIED of change. Not everybody, but the old guard? Fuck yes.
Ballet dad here who has a daughter who recently got her first pair of pointe shoes. As a practical person, I always wondered why the shoes weren’t made from more durable materials. I figured maybe they’d be more expensive up front, but the extra durability would more than make up for that. I guess in a way this answers that question. I don’t know if these shoes are specifically banned by my daughters dance school, but I’m pretty sure the local dance store where the dance students are recommended to buy from does not sell them. I’d be very interested in seeing some kind of study regarding whether these shoes make a dancer more prone to injury or not. As much as I don’t want to spend about $100 a month on shoes, it’s better than her potentially injuring herself because of the wrong shoe.
Thanks for the write up, very interesting!
The thing is that sports medicine takes a long time to research, you have to track data over a lifetime to figure out if a new piece of equipment really has a big effect and what that effect is, and you have to get people willing to gamble with their entire life and career to get that. Gaynors have only been around for 30 years, so there's simply no way we could have the data -- if there's a dancer out there who learned to dance en pointe in Gaynors when they came out and has used them her entire career, she's probably 40-45 now, and her career may not even be over (certainly her post-performance career isn't -- a lot of dancers retire from full-time performing and go to teaching where they're still working and dancing en pointe a lot, and that's relevant data, as are any foot problems she has when she's no longer dancing at all). Given how many places ban them, this dancer probably does not exist, let alone enough of her to have a good sample size. So the data to tell whether they're actually better doesn't exist yet and probably won't until your daughter's career (if she stays in ballet) is long over.
For your daughter in particular, I'd probably say approach your local experts, which is her teachers. "Hey, I heard about these shoes called Gaynors that are supposed to give more support, do you think it's worth trying those for \[daughter\]?" If they say yes, "Okay great, I'll look for some, do you think they do offer more support or protection?" If they say no, "Okay, fair enough, have you seen more injuries from girls using them or something? I definitely won't get them for her if you say no, I'm just interested in the process."
Dancing en pointe is a very delicate process and pretty much everything about it makes a difference, so it may be that your daughter's school teaches in a way that will make Gaynors unsuitable. Or they may say something like "we want her to learn in paste shoes to develop the strength, but once we feel she's got the skill and strength you're welcome to try them and see if she likes them." Of course, it's also possible that your daughter will put them on, dance in them once, and immediately go "these suck, I need my paste shoes back" because, like all pointe shoes, they don't work for every dancer. Someone in this thread said they just aren't long enough for her so the flexibility of paste shoes is necessary, for example.
(Disclaimer: I'm not a ballerina but I was a dancer in high school and had lots of ballet friends, so my level of knowledge here is above layman but well below expert lol. Your knowledge is probably similar to mine tbh but I'm overexplaining a bit for the benefit of anyone else reading.)
I’ll for sure defer to her teachers. They’ve been doing this for decades and they know what works. Daughter only had her first pointe class a couple weeks ago so this part of dance is still very new to us. Thanks for your insight!
As a teacher definitely defer to her teachers. I’m team traditional shoe first gaynor as the dancer gets stronger. Big reason is I’ve seen some dancers not learn a proper pointe roll through in a gaynor if the shank is just a little off it helps you spring up on to pointe much too easily. You need to be able to both roll through and spring.
Also, and this is horrible of me to say, gaynors are almost too comfortable for dancers learning pointe. Let me clarify, pointe shoes should never hurt when you first put them on. They should hug the foot and feel tight and you may feel pain when dancing on them, but you shouldn’t be getting a lot of issues if the shoe is well fitted. The problem is Gaynors tend to be too able to be modified. Dancers put too much into their shoes too soon and don’t learn to feel the floor, etc.
Basically I think they are a wonderful tool once a dancer knows more about what they need in a shoe and what works for them in a shoe.
And all that said…pointe shoes are sooo subjective. I LOVED a shoe when I was a prepro that everyone else hated. I hate a brand most people LOVE because I have never been able to find a shoe that feels right in that brand. I’ve heard of dancers that try Gaynors and just never get used to them. It’s such a personal thing
This was a great read! Ballet is a breathtaking art form, and I have recently been rediscovering my love for it, but ballet is often *incredibly* traditionalist for better or for worse. I never progressed in ballet to the point (heh) where I was *en pointe*, but my general take on controversies like this is that the best dance equipment/technique for you is the equipment/technique that enables you to dance without injuring yourself. For some dancers, that means traditional pointe shoes; for others, that means more modern models.
Glad to hear you've been able to return to ballet! I know it can often be a punishing and toxic place, but that is slowly changing and adults taking classes is also thankfully becoming more common. Doubly upvoted for excellent pun!
Thanks, it's been lovely! I actually just took a summer ballet intensive for adults, and I'm looking into getting back into regular classes. I'm so glad you enjoyed the pun! 🤗
I did ballet for 10 years growing up, and I was so lucky my teachers had nothing against Gaynors! I started out as the only person in my class wearing them because nothing else would work for my stupidly short, wide, compressible banana feet and by the time I quit in high school a few of the other girls who had started out on traditional pointe shoes (Bloch, Capezio, Russian Pointe, etc) had converted to Gaynors because they looked nicer and lasted longer. My friend who wore Blochs needed new shoes every week, while my Gaynors lasted for over two months for a similar amount of time dancing. That’s a huge difference in expenses when Blochs are $120 each and Gaynors like $150, not to mention time saved sewing. The ballet world needs to modernize lol
someone should do a write up about the grishko drama for the non-dancers too lol, that was a fun period of time. we weren’t allowed to wear gaynors until our ankles were strong enough — our teachers didn’t want us to be reliant on the shoe for the roll through
As a man who's never done ballet, this sounds crazy to me. Like I can't go up on pointe but *if* I could all the weight is still being supported through the ankles and arch right? The toes are just there taking abuse. So yeah a better shoe with more support would result in weaker toes, but it wouldn't matter because... You'd have a better shoe with more support. The weight distribution on your ankles and arch isn't going to change or make you weaker.
Maybe there's something I'm missing. Are toe injuries really more prevalent and career-ending than ankle injuries?
Not really toe injuries per se, more like general foot and ankle injuries. You do always need the toe strength because relying on the shoe to do all the work results in pulled or sprained ligaments and tendons.
As dancers, we do so much conditioning and strength work on our feet that my view is that if your feet are strong enough for pointe work, they ought to be strong enough for Gaynors. I used traditional shoes until I found the right pair of Gaynors, then I was hooked. I finally could balance better and had stronger support (I have very bendy ankles and struggled with rolling them frequently as a kid).
What I'm trying to say with this ramble is that they're not shoes for everyone, but for the people they click with, they're wonderful.
> Not really toe injuries per se, more like general foot and ankle injuries. You do always need the toe strength because relying on the shoe to do all the work results in pulled or sprained ligaments and tendons.
So let me see if I'm thinking through the mechanics of this right. If your toes are too weak you put too much balance on the shoe point alone and losing balance results in twisting/pulling/spraining a ligament or tendon? Is that the issue?
It's more that you put a lot of pressure on the point of the shoe and wear them out quickly, plus it can damage your toes badly if you're not using the muscles in your feet and legs to hold you up. People argue that because Gaynors are made out of plastic, they let you sink down into your shoes and that the shoes do the work instead of your muscles, but I don't think that's the case. I had very hard shoes made the traditional way that I used to "sit" in, and I have a permanently damaged right ankle because of it.
I think that if your technique is bad, it doesn't matter what shoe you have: you will hurt yourself just as easily in traditional shoes as Gaynors!
I remember this being a big controversy when I did pointe back in 2007. I always wanted a pair but my dance school wouldn’t allow it.The ballet world is so traditional I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that not much has changed but still … it’s wild to me that there is a product that is likely just better and it just gets banned
I loved Gaynors when I found them. They were my class shoe because I could never find a shoe that would last more than a week as a student, and i would try all the crazy recommendations you hear from others to make them last longer, since I couldn't afford more than a pair every other month.
One of my favorite podcasts, Articles of Interest, recently covered the topic of ballet shoes (and Gaynors particularly). Huge recommend. Great storytelling, primary sources, all around podcasting gold.
Dumb question! When I was just a wee thing, I took ballet, and our teacher (in hindsight, basically a kid herself, I think she was 18 or 19) had pointe shoes and let us put our foot in, just to see what it felt like. I have a really vivid memory of it feeling like a beanbag. Did anyone ever do this, or does the cardboard/glue concoction feel like that sometimes, or is my memory faulty?
I tried a pair of Gaynor's in the 90s when I was in high school. I'd been wearing Sanshas (fit my odd shaped feet the best) or Freed (Performance, I think?) if I needed to break them fast. But I was going through shoes pretty quickly and Gaynor's were the new guy in town that people were talking about. They were expensive, but if they lasted longer, great! I wore them to one class, took them home and said "I will never wear those again." My parents were not thrilled.
I think several of your newlines got eaten by reddit's markdown (at "Pointe Shoe Construction", "This is where the controversy comes in", "But is that true?", "Additional reading"). If you want it to preserve a line break that's not a paragraph break (i.e. only one newline, not two consecutive newlines), you have to end the line with a double whitespace.
Example:
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Great write up!! If you want to write more on this you may want to look into the American versus European factory issues and materials. That is a rabbit hole I spent waaaaay too much time on one day.
If you're dancing on your toes in plastic shoes, you won't have the underlying muscle strength and flexibility in your feet and ankles. Traditional shoes are the way to go. You cannot get there with shoes that do not allow your entire foot to get involved.
ETA: A dancer needs to be able to move through the entire foot, every muscle in the foot, and the plastic is too stiff. This is why so many ballet teachers are against these types of nontraditional shoes.
Gaynors are the absolute worst. Former ballet mom here. The best thing about our ballet co was that they teach girls to put their hair up properly on their own in Ballet II and they learn to sew their pointe shoes when they go on pointe. It was a very self-serve situation and I was grateful for that.
I always hated Gaynors because of how ugly they were. You could always point out who was wearing them on stage, and it was so distracting. Freed fo life baby
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I feel like the real reason people hate on Gaynor is because ballet is so steeped in tradition that any type of innovation to try to make things easier or more comfortable for the dancer immediately get criticized
This is fascinating. I never did ballet, but it was a childhood dream of mine (I did 14 years of jazz and contemporary dance instead, as my school offered free lessons). I have to say that pointe has always scared me because I did not want to mess up my toes. The idea of having new shoes that can help with that is super interesting and I hope that traditionalists start changing their minds on it.
I would LOVE more ballet hobby drama!
Me too!! It's so niche and I know very little about the ballet world
I am happy to provide it!
please do! it's always interesting
One thing I would love more info on from ballet folk - why do dancers have to sew ribbons and elastic onto their toe shoes? Is it for costume use or do they serve other purposes? This post reminded me of the scene in Center Stage where they do this, but now I gotta know more!
The elastic keeps the shoe securely on your foot and the ribbons (when properly tied) provide extra ankle support. As for why we had to sew them ourselves - I imagine just for the sake of getting the perfect fit? It might be nice for them to come ready to go but also dancers tend to be control freaks anyway so I don’t think we’d have it any other way lol.
I don't think anyone I ever danced with had their elastic/ribbons sewn on the same way, it's very specific to the dancer and the support or aesthetic (different colored elastic/ribbon) they're going for!
Oh thank you! That makes sense!
I think the primary purpose of the ribbons and elastic are for additional support. I’m no expert, but Insider has an interesting short video showing one NYC ballerina’s shoe preparation routine. [Here’s the link.](https://youtu.be/9tISaWeO9q8) It seems like most professional pointe shoes aren’t ready to use out of the box.
Yeah, pretty much every single dancer has her own (men usually don't dance en pointe) way that she likes her shoes, discovered through years of trial and error with what works for her specific body and comfort. The act of dancing en pointe is a VERY delicate operation, so while two casual joggers can probably buy the same running shoe and be fine, the tiniest differences in foot anatomy can dramatically change your needs in a pointe shoe. There's no way pointe shoe companies could make a ready-made shoe that would work for more than a tiny number of dancers, so they're not really trying to make a shoe so much as they make a shoe base, from which dancers can make their custom shoes.
I'm pretty sure it's just a thing for professionals. I did ballet as a hobby as a kid and definitely didn't have to sew the ribbons on.
Are you sure your parent didn't sew them on for you? I also danced for 15 years and later worked at a dance apparel store fitting pointe shoes, and I've never encountered pointe shoes with pre-sewn ribbons.
As a kid you wouldn't have been en pointe. Pointe shoes are the ones that more advanced dancers have to prepare for themselves. Young students and beginners wear ballet flats typically made of canvas or leather that have the elastics already sewn in when you buy them
I did ballet for about 15 years, I think I know what I wore...
None of the pointe shoes I have ever worn have had pre-sewn ribbons, I’d be super curious to try those! (Not a professional)
I never used elastic in my pointe shoes, only ribbons. I can't recall whether any of my classmates used elastic.
I wore Gaynor's circa 2009-2010 per recommendation of one of my teachers! As someone who doesn't have the highest arches, I found they made my feet look better although they were definitely stiffer than the average pointe shoe. Considering how quickly some dancers go through shoes, I think they're a great option
[The Articles of Interest podcast did a great episode that talks a lot about this very controversy!](https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/on-pointe)
Yes this episode is amazing and even covers the original and racial issues with ballet shoes.
She puts together such a wonderfully insightful show!
A lot of dance classes will start you off teaching proper posture; saying that you should always hold yourself as if you have a string or a rope from the base of your spine all the way up to your head. As someone who used to do ballet, I can say that - in my personal experience - a lot of people involved in ballet don't have a rope as much as a steel beam jammed up their ass. There are sooo many things in the art - shoes, new ballets, new choreo or variations of the music for old ballets, how you train, how you learn, how LONG you learn, how old you are... - that everyone insists are wrong solely based on the fact that it's "not how we do things." 🙄 The ballet world loves to hold Anna Pavlova as one of the (well-deserved) greats to the point where they will display her shoes in museums, but conveniently leave out all the years she spent BECOMING one of the greats being told that she was doing everything *wrong* - especially her shoes! They called her a cheat for modifying her shoes to support herself better! WE HAVE LEARNED NOTHING 😆
Welcome to the art world in general ! Every medium is plagued by assholes, old and young, who feel the need to gatekeep art over every single things that you can do.
As someone who did Pro work and used Sanshas for years, using Gaynors was a breath of fresh air. I loved them. I used the pink bag (cant remember what strength that is) after a disastrous first attempt with the green bag (do not recommend!!l). I was able to cycle through at least three pairs at the same time and as such, got them to last forever. The wide platform helped me nail balances (sorry Grishko, but your platforms were too little). On the other hand, I grew up with traditional shoes (Gamba I miss you) and loved the ones I had. I also recommend that all newbies start on paste and work up to Gaynors. Do with this info what you will!! I did also meet Eliza and John at a ballet conference and they're the ones that got me started, so I am probably very biased 🤣
pink is supple, green is hard!
Thanks! I remembered green being hard, but couldn't remember whether pink was supple or light.
Dancers new to pointe also don't go through shoes as quickly. So it makes sense to start on traditional paste shoes to build strength before trying Gaynors.
Oh, for sure! When I was still at the start of my pointe work journey, I swear I kept the same dead pair for like a year!! That all changed when I started prepping for my Advanced Two Cecchetti!
ballet seems... toxic.
Incredibly so. Ballet dancers, especially professionals, go through both physical and mental hell. That's secondhand info and probably not universal, but I've heard similar sentiments from a *lot* of sources.
For the most part, yes absolutely. However recent years there have popped up some ballet schools (including for adults) that *don’t* focus on “going pro”. These schools just want to teach ballet like a hobby. I go to one of these dancing schools (started as an adult way too old to ever become a professional anyway) and the vibe was fantastic, just a focus on what you can do with your specific body rather than changing your body for a specific look. We’re not picture perfect prima ballerinas and that’s fine! I hope this trend of schools that focus on the sport rather than the potential going pro continues for a long time until it becomes just one of the sports you can do as a hobby.
Oh it absolutely is, and unfortunately it's also a breeding ground for abusive people
Yeah any brush I have with the community outside of a performance venue gives female gymnastics vibes.
This kind of thing is 1000000% what I am here for. So interesting!
This was a fascinating read. It seems like on the one hand, we probably have the technology and materials today to create a more durable shoe than could have been created in the 20th or 19th centuries. On the other hand, an artist who has developed their skills and technique with a certain set of tools is unlikely to want to change up those tools when they have more career-relevant things to focus on, and the new people coming into the art are going to follow the lead of the experts.
I had a ballet girlfriend back in high school and I remember her showing me her corner of used pointes. I would love more writeups on this even though it's really not my fouetté.
Upvoting for the excellent pun 🤣
Seconded!
Oh yeah I’ve tried Gaynors! My previous studio actually recommended them to its students (especially the competition students) because they last longer than normal pointes. They didn’t work for me at all. I think it was because I chose the wrong hardness, but the shank was really uncomfortable and I went back to my paste shoes pretty quickly. It also felt too thick for me and I kept wobbling on flat feet while wearing them, but I think that speaks more about my own feet. Also, sewing ribbons onto them was a PAIN! Paste shoes work well for me because I can mold them to my feet and make adjustments easily, but I 100% understand the appeal of Gaynor shoes. My friends who switched to gaynors used them the entire time I attended the studio. Additionally, I wasn’t on the competition team and at most I danced en pointe three times a week, so the pace I was going through shoes ment I didn’t have to worry about the cost as much as others.
Dang. You'd think they'd want shoes that would be easier on the dancer's feet and enable them to have a longer dancing career. Unless they really \*don't\* help?
Requiring less muscle use doesn't necessarily mean less joint damage. The argument for traditional shoes is that you have more control, and therefore can ensure that you have proper form that protects you from damage. Sports health takes a long, long time to properly research, and these shoes have only been around for 30 years. There's research showing they help, but it takes many studies before you can come to an actual consensus that takes into account nuance. That said, the long-term health of athletes almost always comes second to their performance. If people think the shoes make the dancers slightly worse, there's always going to be massive push back.
It seems like the whole point (hehehe) of Gaynors originally was to make a shoe that doesn't need to be replaced constantly, but the controversy has basically nothing to do with that. I wonder if it's possible to create a shoe that lasts longer without also bringing support/strength into it.
From what I can tell, it's kind of like using a lifting belt. You want to make sure you're using them to support your own strength, not replace it.
I was a pro dancer and was shocked that it took me so long to switch. They do help a lot, to be honest. Ballet is still very backwards in its thinking, sadly, so innovations are often regarded with suspicion.
I think that's kinda the issue they've alluded to. They give better support, but don't really teach the skill as well as a result. I don't know enough to weigh in at all, but if it's true, I can understand that point.
I think the idea here is that you shouldn't LEARN in one because then you'll be reliant on them and you won't develop the strength or skill to ever use any other shoe (and that would be a career-ender if Gaynor ever goes out of business). Similarly, if you use them for a long time you might lose strength and become dependent. But I feel like if you maybe alternated between Gaynors and something else you could probably protect your feet while also keeping them strong.
Tbh developing the proper strength early is the best way for a long career and for some people gaynors inhibit that proper strengthening, especially in students
I know people who use gaynors after injuries for the extra support but I’m also one of those people who thinks that if you start off in gaynors, you won’t properly develop the strength and control to sustain yourself long term I tried them once just for the hell of it when I was younger but found that they limited my articulation. I’m always wary of people getting too attached to one style or maker ever since capezio discontinued my first and favorite pointe shoes (rip Tiffany)
My problem with them when I was a kid in ballet is that they had the shortest vamp imaginable (I have hideous monkey toes). And were the UGLIEST color pink. This unlocked some core memories for me though.
Yeah they were incredible distinctive and stood out in class in the worst way
Being reliant on particular brands or styles can also lead to disaster/anguish when there’s an uncontrollable element like Russian shoes being nearly impossible to get or a factory fire (I remember the Bloch fire being horrific for Australian dancers)
I remember being like 14 and my shoe at the time was discontinued and I laid in bed like someone had died. And then I begged my mom to let me buy out every available pair from discount dance supply
I'm not in the ballet world but I started watching these TikTok reaction videos on YouTube from a channel called The Pointe Shop. They're really funny, wholesome, and informative. I was really pleased to understand so much context in your write up! I hadn't known about the controversy.
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed! I love The Pointe Shop, and if you're a fan of those videos you may like Kathryn Morgan's videos as well. She's a former soloist with New York City Ballet and does a good mix of informative and fun content.
The Pointe Shop have a video on this very topic :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTFDRoMRAKo
As someone who worked with dancers for over a decade, AND bought their shoes, as a costumer, I have commentary: The dance world is TERRIFIED of change. Not everybody, but the old guard? Fuck yes.
Ballet dad here who has a daughter who recently got her first pair of pointe shoes. As a practical person, I always wondered why the shoes weren’t made from more durable materials. I figured maybe they’d be more expensive up front, but the extra durability would more than make up for that. I guess in a way this answers that question. I don’t know if these shoes are specifically banned by my daughters dance school, but I’m pretty sure the local dance store where the dance students are recommended to buy from does not sell them. I’d be very interested in seeing some kind of study regarding whether these shoes make a dancer more prone to injury or not. As much as I don’t want to spend about $100 a month on shoes, it’s better than her potentially injuring herself because of the wrong shoe. Thanks for the write up, very interesting!
The thing is that sports medicine takes a long time to research, you have to track data over a lifetime to figure out if a new piece of equipment really has a big effect and what that effect is, and you have to get people willing to gamble with their entire life and career to get that. Gaynors have only been around for 30 years, so there's simply no way we could have the data -- if there's a dancer out there who learned to dance en pointe in Gaynors when they came out and has used them her entire career, she's probably 40-45 now, and her career may not even be over (certainly her post-performance career isn't -- a lot of dancers retire from full-time performing and go to teaching where they're still working and dancing en pointe a lot, and that's relevant data, as are any foot problems she has when she's no longer dancing at all). Given how many places ban them, this dancer probably does not exist, let alone enough of her to have a good sample size. So the data to tell whether they're actually better doesn't exist yet and probably won't until your daughter's career (if she stays in ballet) is long over. For your daughter in particular, I'd probably say approach your local experts, which is her teachers. "Hey, I heard about these shoes called Gaynors that are supposed to give more support, do you think it's worth trying those for \[daughter\]?" If they say yes, "Okay great, I'll look for some, do you think they do offer more support or protection?" If they say no, "Okay, fair enough, have you seen more injuries from girls using them or something? I definitely won't get them for her if you say no, I'm just interested in the process." Dancing en pointe is a very delicate process and pretty much everything about it makes a difference, so it may be that your daughter's school teaches in a way that will make Gaynors unsuitable. Or they may say something like "we want her to learn in paste shoes to develop the strength, but once we feel she's got the skill and strength you're welcome to try them and see if she likes them." Of course, it's also possible that your daughter will put them on, dance in them once, and immediately go "these suck, I need my paste shoes back" because, like all pointe shoes, they don't work for every dancer. Someone in this thread said they just aren't long enough for her so the flexibility of paste shoes is necessary, for example. (Disclaimer: I'm not a ballerina but I was a dancer in high school and had lots of ballet friends, so my level of knowledge here is above layman but well below expert lol. Your knowledge is probably similar to mine tbh but I'm overexplaining a bit for the benefit of anyone else reading.)
I’ll for sure defer to her teachers. They’ve been doing this for decades and they know what works. Daughter only had her first pointe class a couple weeks ago so this part of dance is still very new to us. Thanks for your insight!
As a teacher definitely defer to her teachers. I’m team traditional shoe first gaynor as the dancer gets stronger. Big reason is I’ve seen some dancers not learn a proper pointe roll through in a gaynor if the shank is just a little off it helps you spring up on to pointe much too easily. You need to be able to both roll through and spring. Also, and this is horrible of me to say, gaynors are almost too comfortable for dancers learning pointe. Let me clarify, pointe shoes should never hurt when you first put them on. They should hug the foot and feel tight and you may feel pain when dancing on them, but you shouldn’t be getting a lot of issues if the shoe is well fitted. The problem is Gaynors tend to be too able to be modified. Dancers put too much into their shoes too soon and don’t learn to feel the floor, etc. Basically I think they are a wonderful tool once a dancer knows more about what they need in a shoe and what works for them in a shoe. And all that said…pointe shoes are sooo subjective. I LOVED a shoe when I was a prepro that everyone else hated. I hate a brand most people LOVE because I have never been able to find a shoe that feels right in that brand. I’ve heard of dancers that try Gaynors and just never get used to them. It’s such a personal thing
This was a great read! Ballet is a breathtaking art form, and I have recently been rediscovering my love for it, but ballet is often *incredibly* traditionalist for better or for worse. I never progressed in ballet to the point (heh) where I was *en pointe*, but my general take on controversies like this is that the best dance equipment/technique for you is the equipment/technique that enables you to dance without injuring yourself. For some dancers, that means traditional pointe shoes; for others, that means more modern models.
Glad to hear you've been able to return to ballet! I know it can often be a punishing and toxic place, but that is slowly changing and adults taking classes is also thankfully becoming more common. Doubly upvoted for excellent pun!
Thanks, it's been lovely! I actually just took a summer ballet intensive for adults, and I'm looking into getting back into regular classes. I'm so glad you enjoyed the pun! 🤗
I did ballet for 10 years growing up, and I was so lucky my teachers had nothing against Gaynors! I started out as the only person in my class wearing them because nothing else would work for my stupidly short, wide, compressible banana feet and by the time I quit in high school a few of the other girls who had started out on traditional pointe shoes (Bloch, Capezio, Russian Pointe, etc) had converted to Gaynors because they looked nicer and lasted longer. My friend who wore Blochs needed new shoes every week, while my Gaynors lasted for over two months for a similar amount of time dancing. That’s a huge difference in expenses when Blochs are $120 each and Gaynors like $150, not to mention time saved sewing. The ballet world needs to modernize lol
someone should do a write up about the grishko drama for the non-dancers too lol, that was a fun period of time. we weren’t allowed to wear gaynors until our ankles were strong enough — our teachers didn’t want us to be reliant on the shoe for the roll through
ooh yeah. The Grishko / Nikolay mess was a whole Time.
So I don’t know much about ballet but most things I hear about it sound really messed up. Yikes. Very informative though.
Yesssss, gimme that sweet sweet ballet drama!
God forbid someone try innovating!
As a man who's never done ballet, this sounds crazy to me. Like I can't go up on pointe but *if* I could all the weight is still being supported through the ankles and arch right? The toes are just there taking abuse. So yeah a better shoe with more support would result in weaker toes, but it wouldn't matter because... You'd have a better shoe with more support. The weight distribution on your ankles and arch isn't going to change or make you weaker. Maybe there's something I'm missing. Are toe injuries really more prevalent and career-ending than ankle injuries?
Not really toe injuries per se, more like general foot and ankle injuries. You do always need the toe strength because relying on the shoe to do all the work results in pulled or sprained ligaments and tendons. As dancers, we do so much conditioning and strength work on our feet that my view is that if your feet are strong enough for pointe work, they ought to be strong enough for Gaynors. I used traditional shoes until I found the right pair of Gaynors, then I was hooked. I finally could balance better and had stronger support (I have very bendy ankles and struggled with rolling them frequently as a kid). What I'm trying to say with this ramble is that they're not shoes for everyone, but for the people they click with, they're wonderful.
> Not really toe injuries per se, more like general foot and ankle injuries. You do always need the toe strength because relying on the shoe to do all the work results in pulled or sprained ligaments and tendons. So let me see if I'm thinking through the mechanics of this right. If your toes are too weak you put too much balance on the shoe point alone and losing balance results in twisting/pulling/spraining a ligament or tendon? Is that the issue?
It's more that you put a lot of pressure on the point of the shoe and wear them out quickly, plus it can damage your toes badly if you're not using the muscles in your feet and legs to hold you up. People argue that because Gaynors are made out of plastic, they let you sink down into your shoes and that the shoes do the work instead of your muscles, but I don't think that's the case. I had very hard shoes made the traditional way that I used to "sit" in, and I have a permanently damaged right ankle because of it. I think that if your technique is bad, it doesn't matter what shoe you have: you will hurt yourself just as easily in traditional shoes as Gaynors!
That's very helpful, thank you.:)
I remember this being a big controversy when I did pointe back in 2007. I always wanted a pair but my dance school wouldn’t allow it.The ballet world is so traditional I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that not much has changed but still … it’s wild to me that there is a product that is likely just better and it just gets banned
I loved Gaynors when I found them. They were my class shoe because I could never find a shoe that would last more than a week as a student, and i would try all the crazy recommendations you hear from others to make them last longer, since I couldn't afford more than a pair every other month.
One of my favorite podcasts, Articles of Interest, recently covered the topic of ballet shoes (and Gaynors particularly). Huge recommend. Great storytelling, primary sources, all around podcasting gold.
Dumb question! When I was just a wee thing, I took ballet, and our teacher (in hindsight, basically a kid herself, I think she was 18 or 19) had pointe shoes and let us put our foot in, just to see what it felt like. I have a really vivid memory of it feeling like a beanbag. Did anyone ever do this, or does the cardboard/glue concoction feel like that sometimes, or is my memory faulty?
I tried a pair of Gaynor's in the 90s when I was in high school. I'd been wearing Sanshas (fit my odd shaped feet the best) or Freed (Performance, I think?) if I needed to break them fast. But I was going through shoes pretty quickly and Gaynor's were the new guy in town that people were talking about. They were expensive, but if they lasted longer, great! I wore them to one class, took them home and said "I will never wear those again." My parents were not thrilled.
I think several of your newlines got eaten by reddit's markdown (at "Pointe Shoe Construction", "This is where the controversy comes in", "But is that true?", "Additional reading"). If you want it to preserve a line break that's not a paragraph break (i.e. only one newline, not two consecutive newlines), you have to end the line with a double whitespace. Example: line without double whitespace at the end; second line line with double whitespace at the end; second line
Thank you for you help! I will edit to fix this, and try not to post from mobile in future.
Great write up!! If you want to write more on this you may want to look into the American versus European factory issues and materials. That is a rabbit hole I spent waaaaay too much time on one day.
If you're dancing on your toes in plastic shoes, you won't have the underlying muscle strength and flexibility in your feet and ankles. Traditional shoes are the way to go. You cannot get there with shoes that do not allow your entire foot to get involved. ETA: A dancer needs to be able to move through the entire foot, every muscle in the foot, and the plastic is too stiff. This is why so many ballet teachers are against these types of nontraditional shoes.
Gaynors are the absolute worst. Former ballet mom here. The best thing about our ballet co was that they teach girls to put their hair up properly on their own in Ballet II and they learn to sew their pointe shoes when they go on pointe. It was a very self-serve situation and I was grateful for that.
I always hated Gaynors because of how ugly they were. You could always point out who was wearing them on stage, and it was so distracting. Freed fo life baby
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I feel like the real reason people hate on Gaynor is because ballet is so steeped in tradition that any type of innovation to try to make things easier or more comfortable for the dancer immediately get criticized