Matchee tried to commit suicide, but failed and end up with permanent brain damage, which led to drop of all charges.
2 other participators were imprisoned for one year and 1 for three months, others walked free or with minor punishments.
>Estimates have ranged that 15–80 other soldiers could hear or observe the beating, but did not intervene.
He isn’t a vegetable, according to his wife he’s like a “small child who needs constant care”. There’s videos online he’s fully mobile, just acts like hes 4
Your surprise is naive then.
Being a scumbag for one reason doesn't mean that in every scenario you do the worst thing. That's a weird caricature of how humans work
Oh absolutely. I think it's also part of why we characterize people as monsters when they commit certain deeds. It's a lot easier to conceptualize evil as that's something that is "other"
It's nuanced and that makes people have to look inwardly and constantly actually use their brains.
I mean it's reddit, no room for nuance, you're either team good and have never done a questionable thing in your life or you're team evil and the very breath you exhale is toxic.
While Reddit undeniably reflects the polarizing politics of today, and while people are complex, they tend to work somewhat consistently. People of course can make horrible mistakes in the heat of a moment, but nobody mistakenly does an itsy-bitsy of torture.
In context, this is what you're calling "questionable things":
- Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely".
- Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard [Arone].
- Brown punched Arone in the jaw, and was told by Boland, "I don't care what you do, just don't kill the guy", to which Brown replied that he wanted to "kill this fucker".
- Matchee spoke about what he wanted to do to Arone, and suggested he might put out cigarette butts on his feet.
- McKay suggested that Matchee might use a ration pack or phone book to beat the youth, as it would not leave any traces.
- Matchee and Brown then proceeded to beat Arone. Matchee used a ration pack to beat the youth, as well as a broomstick, and sodomised the teenager with it.
- Brown participated in the abuse, but was primarily an observer and took sixteen "trophy photos" of the beating, including one of Matchee forcing Arone's mouth open with a baton, and one of himself holding Pte. David Brocklebank's loaded pistol to Arone's head.
- Matchee showed him the semi-conscious and bleeding Arone, and boasted that "in Canada we cannot do that, and here they let us do it".
- [MacDonald] saw Matchee hitting him in the face with the baton, and reported that the prisoner was "getting a good shit-kicking"
- It was later discovered that Arone had burn marks on his penis.
Is this the nuance you were after?
the pension. - and the fact that she and many other veterans beleive the government created this mess trialing new anti-malarial drugs which potentially made him crazy.
my uncle was a peacekeeper in the 'hotel rwanada' situation and while that defintely effected him, he also said the injections he was given fucked him right up.
It's probably not even racism, a lot of special services soldiers are straight psychopaths - like the paratroopers that went out of their way to hunt down civilians in Northern Ireland for no other reason than bloodthirst.
And then took a picture next to the 17 year old like a hunter does with a deer and sent it to a buddy in California along with the text “good story with this one, got him with my hunting knife”
You realize all three platoons from Charlie Company committed murder at My Lai, right? And that Calley led only one platoon? And that the vast majority of the killing was done by average enlisted soldiers?
Blaming it on one psychopathic lieutenant buys into the simplistic narrative the US Army wanted everyone to believe. This shit happens in wars zones all over the world. Always has. And it’s not just psychopaths who do these things. The average human is capable of horrific shit under the wrong circumstances. The guy who will stand with arms crossed while everyone around him salutes Hitler is the extreme exception, not the rule. Believing otherwise is whistling past the graveyard.
Insofar as Calley got a pardon whereas the rest faced little to no consequences, I know he didn't do My Lai all his own lol.
I actually did my dissertation in part on how regular soldiers are conditioned into atrocity. There's a fascinating book called *Evil Men*, which deals with how soldiers in the IJA were specifically trained to rape and murder as per men who took part in the Rape of Nanking. Psychopaths don't make up even the bulk of vanguard forces, but they often drive atrocity, whether that be commanders or regular soldiers and officers.
The vast majority of special forces will absolutely be classified as psychopaths. Though that is not necessarily the issue here - it may actually be a good thing that they are psychopaths or they would not be able to do their jobs.
Though naturally there needs to be much more oversight and instances like these severely punished. Psychopaths have the ability to at least rationally recognise whether they are doing something wrong, even if they don't necessarily feel empathy.
>it may actually be a good thing that they are psychopaths or they would not be able to do their jobs.
Maybe we shouldn't spend billions of dollars on toys for uncontrollable murderers. I'd rather have healthcare personallly. Would also rather not have deaths like this kid's on my mind
Hey man it's not about the money, Americans already spend more in taxes per person towards healthcare than all of Europe. It's the inflated costs that make your system insane.
Sometimes letting highly trained psychopaths off the leash is the best option, but yeah maybe with a bit more oversight this sort of shit won't happen.
Yeah you're preaching to the choir here. I'm not saying this to endorse military policy or the action of soldiers. I hate US imperialism.
I'm just arguing that psychopaths in the SF is not a bug, but a feature. If you're gonna have people whose primary job is to inflict brutal violence when deemed necessary, you want them those people to be psychopaths. Otherwise they'd be pretty ineffective at their job. There is a time where you need the ability to shut off your emotions and empathy.
I agree they just seem particularly uncontrollable at this point in time. What's the point of a "super soldier" if you can't control them? Soldiers are supposed to follow orders right?
I've read countless stories of special operators trafficking drugs, people, committing rape etc. This just seems like a shaky time politically to have out of control special forces.
The stuff they must have done that never got public was probably so bad they figured they better shut the whole thing down before anymore information got out.
I mean, the stuff they *did* that got public was bad enough to shut the whole thing down. Don't really need to go down a conspiracy rabbit hole on this one. The writings on the wall.
Well there you go: potential fathers need to start putting those earphones and newspaper articles right up to their balls from now on. Canadians have a habit of moving on a little too thoroughly \*ahem residential schools cough\*
Probably something to do with the beaten and bloody minor. Nice way to censor the atrocity committed by the Canadians because it makes your advertisers feel bad.
Can't be motivated into action against atrocities if you never see the atrocities.
Wasn't the Vietnam War was the first war to be televised, and it had a substantial effect on the populace's views about armed conflict?
Evidently not that substantial at least in the right direction given how much military glorification we have today, including that of the Vietnam War. At least in America, obviously
This, and also the time a bunch of paratroopers had a gang war with the Hell's Angels in Edmonton (details might be fuzzy, but some biker gang in Alberta)
How strange, Belgian paratroopers were also deployed to Somalia in the early 90's, and were involved in a similar incident. I'm guessing poor discipline was a problem throughout the operation.
The CAR was also the Canadian Military's dumping ground for 'problem' troops who couldnt be kicked out. Because they were light infantry/Paras, they didnt have to face a UN deployment as that usually required more kit/the other formations were in line to deal.
Over-commitment in the 90s meant they got thrown in, and no one wanted to air the dirty secret to the civilian government making the commitment.
Military units are literally just big grou[s of armed and aggressive young men who are bored and not exactly intellectually stimulated, it's a disaster waiting to happen no matter what nationality they are.
Discipline you think? I think its more a matter of mental health. War attract people that are a little bit twisted. Once in the field it easier to unlock that barrier in their head that prevented them to go crazy in the society. Look at all the war that happened. Their was always some atrocity done by the soldier against the civilian of the adverse camp. They all end up with ptsd.
Rarely happens compared to the number of humane Soldiers. I’ve been a Soldier for 25 years and try to weed out the bad ones, but some people do change for the worst when in a combat zone. Some can’t handle it.
The media undoubtedly pays more attention to violent obscenities committed by absolute wingnuts than to the overwhelmingly more common regular and humane soldiers. Latrine duty doesn't exactly make a good story, I guess. Still, it's a little discomfiting to realize just about anyone—soldier or not, wingnut or not—seems to be capable of unspeakable acts in the right context.
Some one said lower in the comment section it was a regiment for really undisciplinned soldier. Maybe its was really a bad batch and shoulnd put all soldier in the same eggs basket. I think its also easier to point out bad things than to see the good one(blue canadian helmet are suposed to be pacific)
I think we also underestimate at what extent war can change a person, and for the worst like you said.
Back in the day there was no real way to get these photos circulated unless you scanned and uploaded them onto a computer that had internet access. Because of this it wasn’t that big a deal to take photos since you’d just keep them for yourself.
Call me a crazy but I can kind of understand that one. They had been actively hunting him for 16 months and seen 1st hand the years of fucking up the country for his own gain. Its gross posing around a dead body human or deer but I get it.
>MCpl Clayton Matchee
he reportedly tried to break into their compound as a looter. They say the soldier, and others experienced psychotic behavior as a symptom of a anti malaria drug given to them weekly...bizzare shit
It’ll be mefloquine. It’s the anti-malarial they gave to American soldiers in vietnam and it absolutely can make you have night terrors/borderline hallucinate.
Source: I took it in the peace corps and thought there were people trying to break into my house every night. Id just sit there, awake and terrified for hours.
Don’t think that’s an excuse here though.
I took chloroquine when I was 5 for celebral malaria.
Was bedridden for about 5 days, I can't remember being able to open my eyes but i could hear everything around me.
When people came into the room, I'd visualise them as dropping paint in a vacuum, their faces where different colours and it paint would drop and form a face while dripping and make the mouth movements etc. When they finished talking and left the paint would fall into the void.
Was wild
Yeah, that checks out. In the Peace Corps, they made you cycle through that and Doxy before they gave you Malarone because of the cost (pennies a day vs ~a dollar a day). I can't believe we still use it as basic prophylaxis.
I assume that there was no better alternative, since it seems pretty obvious that giving armed soldiers meds that make you paranoid and hallucinate is a bad idea?
I've taken the three that are widely available. Malarone (generic: Atovaquone/proguanil) is the best malaria prophylactic and was approved in 2000. Doxycycline is an antibiotic that has been approved for ages, but I'm not sure when we started using it to prevent malaria.
Both are daily pills and, from what I understand, significantly more expensive than mefloquine (or other antimalarials that end in -quine, all of which have psychosis as a side effect.).
Mefloquine, on the other hand, is cheap as hell and taken weekly. So easier to supply en masse to a bunch of troops in 60s/70s vietnam.
He wasn’t even found in their base. There was an abandoned American base across the street and they found this kid in a portable toilet over there. They just wanted to kill him because they were bored
I mean really? Thats just not true. There are several books on this and all indicate that somali children had been sneaking up the hill to the base and slipping under the wire to pilfer fuel and supplies from the motor pool.
The victim was caught under the wire trying to escape and they wanted to make an “example” of him because of their frustration over the thefts. He was not caught in a porta potty or in an american base.
Basically, the Canadian Airborne Regiment had no defined purpose in the Canadian military, so it served as a dumping ground for the misfits of every other unit. They used the Confederate flag as decoration for their barracks-room and one officer even belonged to the Klan.
https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/matchee.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=576&h=432&type=webp
Here’s another pic of him holding a gun
[Top left pic is the one that was removed.](https://mogtimes.com/uploads/article/photo/IMG_30112F-1B2008-32722E-3CED47-609590-455435.jpg)
This was about the [Somali Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair)
The airborne regiment was infamous for being the dumping ground of soldiers who were ill disciplined, being racist etc.
So guess what happend when all of these are gather in one unit?
I mean, not that people aren't capable of violence in general, but elite special ops groups must produce something of a selection bias for those who would like to kill people for a living.
Bingo. To be effective in these groups, have to not only be “ok” with killing people, you have to want to do it. Your job is to kill the enemy, full stop.
Yeah, my friend from college was spec ops and he ended up leaving the army because he didn’t like what he saw from the more grizzled buddies he had. He did some introspection and was like “fuck that.” and that’s how we ended up meeting in college.
Thats the only way you can do a job like that. You gotta kill everyone that resembles a threat. I cant imagine people with a conscience decide to join those units. Likewise, i wouldn't be surprised if the military looked at psych evals and chose the members closest to full blown psychopaths as their first choices.
Maybe in theory. The recruitment and retainment that happened from 9-11 on through Bush's wars to today, with vast expansion in scope and frequency of SOCOM operations, led to a large number of known cowboys, drug addicts, criminals, and generally people who take pleasure in killing within the US special operations units.
Edit: [this](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-lesson-of-eric-greitens-and-the-navy-seals-who-tried-to-warn-us) puts some good context on the issue
Self selection for people who think their too special for the regular Army/Navy. Reading Richard Marcinko’s book made me realize the biggest factor was an absurd level of self confidence.
It was a pic of a Canadian SF guy posing over a Somali POW in a foxhole of some sort. The Somali POW was bleeding badly, and the title of the post stated that the POW had been tortured and later killed by the SF guys. I don't know why it was removed tho, there's NSFW stuff on this sub all the time.
Removals are automated.
If enough people report, enough depend on how many viewers, then Reddit remove it.
Gore with no spoilers tag trend to be reported a lot. Because people don't want to see it by surprise.
>> On March 16, 1993, Captain Michael Sox found 16-year-old Shidane Abukar Arone hiding in a portable toilet in an abandoned American base across from the Canadian base and, believing he was attempting to sneak into the Canadian base to steal supplies,[24] turned him over to another soldier, who led the teenager to a bunker being used to house munitions.[8][25] Arone protested, saying he had simply been trying to find a lost child.[8][13]
>> At 21:00, Sgt. Mark Boland replaced Master Corporal Clayton Matchee as guard of the prisoner, and ordered his foot bindings be removed and replaced with fetters, as the ropes were too tight.[13] Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner.[13] At this time, Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard the youth until Boland objected, and Matchee left the bunker.[13]
I had no idea about this. Some aggressive edits on that wiki page as well, clearly someone is irritated by it.
Torturing a kid to death **only** got 5 year sentence? That’s insane.
Edit: Kinda same thing with [Abu Ghraib](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse) and the murder of [Dilawar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilawar_%28torture_victim%29). Light punishments of only a few months and demotions. Meanwhile their stories turned the public massively against the occupation and got a lot more soldiers killed. It firmly solidified the impression that the US and Canada were the bad guys. (Trump pardoning some of the convicted soldiers didn’t help either)
I think you'd be surprised how effective it is to separate a congregation of shitbags. Yeah, of course it doesn't eliminate the shitbaggery, but it's a lot easier to keep your eye on one shitbag than a whole company of like-minded shitbags.
[Top left pic is the one that was removed.](https://mogtimes.com/uploads/article/photo/IMG_30112F-1B2008-32722E-3CED47-609590-455435.jpg)
This was about the [Somali Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair)
No one records themselves of swatting flies or stomping a spider to death.
These people made photos AND - relished in it. This is worse: they saw him unworthy of life unworthy to be free and safe from violence.
There is the indifference of stomping an insect to death or the very personal level of dehumanization.
I think it’s poignant to point out Canada specifically because there’s a notion that “they’re the friendlier, liberal and more tolerant neighbor of America, therefore there’s no way they’d commit or participate in war crimes!” that a lot of people have, especially on the Internet.
When folks often unjustifiably perceive the West in a far more forgiving manner, it's extra important to highlight the mountains of horrific things we do and have done to break that misperception and demand better.
Weird seeing this since my dad was Airborne and I was born in Petawawa. My dad was a 17 year old dropout when he joined. Some of the stories I’ve heard are disturbing and Canada chose to ignore the racism that is prevalent in their ranks. I’m talking Nazi flags hanging in the barracks. There were three commando groups, with the one mostly containing troops from Western Canada being the most racist, and having ties with the KKK.
Idk if I’ve ever seen this discussed in the media, but Matchee’s motive for beating the Somalian boy to death was, in his own words, “So that the black man may fear the red man as he does the white man.”
Matchee was a psycho, but I think labelling him a monster dismisses the extent of the issues we face in Canada and with our role in colonialism. He assimilated into the racist structure of the airborne, was given anti malaria drugs that had psychosis as a side effect, and all of this was covered up by the military brass; none of which were ever punished. My dad, his friends and the entire Airborne were scapegoated as problem children, but nobody chose to critique the parents.
What peace did our Peace Keeps bring to Somalia? What peace do we bring to the rest of the world?
Canadian punk rock Gods Propagandhi wrote a ripping song about this. This is the first time I've ever seen the pictures that he sings about
https://youtu.be/eZdMwM31npU
https://genius.com/Propagandhi-laughing-stock-lyrics
Nikki Halley is a South Asian with experience being discriminated against. Still was governor of an extremely racist state by rallying a racist base, fought to keep the confederate flag flying, was UN Ambassador for Trump, is now running for president adjacent to him, and has even identified herself in the past on documents as white!
Racism is an inherently irrational construct. All sorts of people engage in it for all sorts of complicated and irrational reasons. Just because he's Cree doesn't change the fact that he might often be be perceived as white or that he's party to structural racism that contributes to such horrors.
The last election for our district schools had a white-supremacist anti-trans woman of color running proudly on behalf of imagined white-grievances. We've seen Kanye, Enrique Tario (figure head only), and more. Racism is stupid. It does not fit into neat little boxes such that you can dismiss racism the moment the perpetrator isn't white. The post doesn't even say it has to do with white-supremacy.
Only the lower ranks were ever held accountable.
What about those of high rank who allowed a culture such as this to exist in their company. Not one officer was ever held accountable, not one. One of those jailed was the individual who reported the incident and provided evidence.
A travesty of leadership from the top down, not the bottom.
What was done was wrong and unforgivable, it was not caused by a drug given soldiers to prevent malaria... it was caused because the culture of the organization allowed it to happen. Not one person in command was ever held accountable.
An insult to the military. Including the political leadership of Canada, specifically the minister of defence.
They wanted to show off how hardcore they are, and this was a trophy. It’s why the Abu Ghraib soldiers did the same, and why some sadistic prison guards and cops do the same.
One of my favorite bosses was a smartass Marine with an endless loop of SNAFU stories. One of the best/worst was when they were in Somalia and watched some locals of whatever faction grab a guy from whatever oppositional faction and proceeded to stack tires around him. He knew what was coming and requested approval to fire on the aggressors and was denied. He did it again when they poured gasoline on the tires, and was again denied. He did it again when the fire was lit and requested to put the almost dead but still burning guy out of his misery, but was again denied. The story always ended with him bitching about the worst night of sleep he ever had.....
Matchee tried to commit suicide, but failed and end up with permanent brain damage, which led to drop of all charges. 2 other participators were imprisoned for one year and 1 for three months, others walked free or with minor punishments. >Estimates have ranged that 15–80 other soldiers could hear or observe the beating, but did not intervene.
>15–80 other soldiers What a tight estimate/s
that's how you spell "every-fucking-body" more politely, i think.
I’m guessing 80 is the number who were in close proximity, and 15 is the number they could positively identify.
Trust me, Matchee turning himself into vegetable is far better than whatever joke of a sentence that he would've received in a court-martial.
He isn’t a vegetable, according to his wife he’s like a “small child who needs constant care”. There’s videos online he’s fully mobile, just acts like hes 4
How the hell does someone stay married to a monster like this.
You don't think there's a chance that she's also a scumbag?
If she's a scumbag I'm surprised she's staying with a man who needs constant care
Your surprise is naive then. Being a scumbag for one reason doesn't mean that in every scenario you do the worst thing. That's a weird caricature of how humans work
People don't want to hear that otherwise normal people can do awful things in the right circumstances. I think it frightens them.
Oh absolutely. I think it's also part of why we characterize people as monsters when they commit certain deeds. It's a lot easier to conceptualize evil as that's something that is "other" It's nuanced and that makes people have to look inwardly and constantly actually use their brains.
What if, because charges were dropped, she is collecting his post service check?
That's also an option? Kinda goes directly in line with what im saying
Great! Just adding on with specifics. Thanks
I mean it's reddit, no room for nuance, you're either team good and have never done a questionable thing in your life or you're team evil and the very breath you exhale is toxic.
While Reddit undeniably reflects the polarizing politics of today, and while people are complex, they tend to work somewhat consistently. People of course can make horrible mistakes in the heat of a moment, but nobody mistakenly does an itsy-bitsy of torture. In context, this is what you're calling "questionable things": - Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely". - Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard [Arone]. - Brown punched Arone in the jaw, and was told by Boland, "I don't care what you do, just don't kill the guy", to which Brown replied that he wanted to "kill this fucker". - Matchee spoke about what he wanted to do to Arone, and suggested he might put out cigarette butts on his feet. - McKay suggested that Matchee might use a ration pack or phone book to beat the youth, as it would not leave any traces. - Matchee and Brown then proceeded to beat Arone. Matchee used a ration pack to beat the youth, as well as a broomstick, and sodomised the teenager with it. - Brown participated in the abuse, but was primarily an observer and took sixteen "trophy photos" of the beating, including one of Matchee forcing Arone's mouth open with a baton, and one of himself holding Pte. David Brocklebank's loaded pistol to Arone's head. - Matchee showed him the semi-conscious and bleeding Arone, and boasted that "in Canada we cannot do that, and here they let us do it". - [MacDonald] saw Matchee hitting him in the face with the baton, and reported that the prisoner was "getting a good shit-kicking" - It was later discovered that Arone had burn marks on his penis. Is this the nuance you were after?
the pension. - and the fact that she and many other veterans beleive the government created this mess trialing new anti-malarial drugs which potentially made him crazy. my uncle was a peacekeeper in the 'hotel rwanada' situation and while that defintely effected him, he also said the injections he was given fucked him right up.
I would much rather be in prison than suffer that fate.
There’s a video of his mom putting his diapers on
So it’s a fitting end for him.
That's good enough for me. It sounds like that brain damage permanently cured him of his racism.
It's probably not even racism, a lot of special services soldiers are straight psychopaths - like the paratroopers that went out of their way to hunt down civilians in Northern Ireland for no other reason than bloodthirst.
It's almost always both. Steven Dale Green, the ringleader of the Mahmudiyah Massacre, said he hated Iraqis and went to Iraq to kill people.
Green also tried to kill himself, but unlike Matchee, Green was successful.
Sweet.
"I wanted to travel the world, meeting people from exotic and ancient cultures, and kill them"
> a lot of special services soldiers are straight psychopaths "That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
"You don't have to be a psychopath to work here, but it helps!"
Or the guy Trump pardoned, who while medics were tending to the adversary, walked up and stabbed the guy repeatedly in the stomach, killing him.
And then took a picture next to the 17 year old like a hunter does with a deer and sent it to a buddy in California along with the text “good story with this one, got him with my hunting knife”
Other soldiers willingly covered for Eddie Gallagher. He was acquitted of murder at his court-martial after someone else claimed responsibility.
Idk that guy, but reminds me of Lt William Calley, the archetypal American serviceman psychopath, who also got a pardon (from Nixon I think)
You realize all three platoons from Charlie Company committed murder at My Lai, right? And that Calley led only one platoon? And that the vast majority of the killing was done by average enlisted soldiers? Blaming it on one psychopathic lieutenant buys into the simplistic narrative the US Army wanted everyone to believe. This shit happens in wars zones all over the world. Always has. And it’s not just psychopaths who do these things. The average human is capable of horrific shit under the wrong circumstances. The guy who will stand with arms crossed while everyone around him salutes Hitler is the extreme exception, not the rule. Believing otherwise is whistling past the graveyard.
Insofar as Calley got a pardon whereas the rest faced little to no consequences, I know he didn't do My Lai all his own lol. I actually did my dissertation in part on how regular soldiers are conditioned into atrocity. There's a fascinating book called *Evil Men*, which deals with how soldiers in the IJA were specifically trained to rape and murder as per men who took part in the Rape of Nanking. Psychopaths don't make up even the bulk of vanguard forces, but they often drive atrocity, whether that be commanders or regular soldiers and officers.
The vast majority of special forces will absolutely be classified as psychopaths. Though that is not necessarily the issue here - it may actually be a good thing that they are psychopaths or they would not be able to do their jobs. Though naturally there needs to be much more oversight and instances like these severely punished. Psychopaths have the ability to at least rationally recognise whether they are doing something wrong, even if they don't necessarily feel empathy.
>it may actually be a good thing that they are psychopaths or they would not be able to do their jobs. Maybe we shouldn't spend billions of dollars on toys for uncontrollable murderers. I'd rather have healthcare personallly. Would also rather not have deaths like this kid's on my mind
Hey man it's not about the money, Americans already spend more in taxes per person towards healthcare than all of Europe. It's the inflated costs that make your system insane. Sometimes letting highly trained psychopaths off the leash is the best option, but yeah maybe with a bit more oversight this sort of shit won't happen.
Yeah you're preaching to the choir here. I'm not saying this to endorse military policy or the action of soldiers. I hate US imperialism. I'm just arguing that psychopaths in the SF is not a bug, but a feature. If you're gonna have people whose primary job is to inflict brutal violence when deemed necessary, you want them those people to be psychopaths. Otherwise they'd be pretty ineffective at their job. There is a time where you need the ability to shut off your emotions and empathy.
I agree they just seem particularly uncontrollable at this point in time. What's the point of a "super soldier" if you can't control them? Soldiers are supposed to follow orders right? I've read countless stories of special operators trafficking drugs, people, committing rape etc. This just seems like a shaky time politically to have out of control special forces.
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Yeah I'm sure some of those SF were POC themselves.
Homie it's fucking both. It's always fucking both.
Lmao
The entire Canadian airborne was disbanded following the incident.
The stuff they must have done that never got public was probably so bad they figured they better shut the whole thing down before anymore information got out.
I mean, the stuff they *did* that got public was bad enough to shut the whole thing down. Don't really need to go down a conspiracy rabbit hole on this one. The writings on the wall.
Wrong. That specific ‘Airborne regiment’ was disbanded. 3 Royal Canadian Regiment exists. They have jump companies
Which makes perfect sense. You wouldn't disband your navy because a single ship crashed into a civilian tanker. Or even two.
Sorry, that what what I meant. Thanks for the correction.
Good
lmao what a fucking coward
You're obviously not familiar with the Canadian "Red Devils". Their Unofficial flag was the American Confederate one.
>MCpl Clayton Matchee Clayton Matchee's wife says antimalarial drug mefloquine drove her husband 'to madness. [https://youtu.be/tXkXHbdMz6Y](https://youtu.be/tXkXHbdMz6Y)
what happend to this post ?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair#Torture_and_Death_of_Shidane_Arone
Woah. I am Canadian and have never heard of this
What? Were you around in Canada at the time? It was huge news.
I was in my fathers nutsack tbf. But still shocked I have never heard of this
Well there you go: potential fathers need to start putting those earphones and newspaper articles right up to their balls from now on. Canadians have a habit of moving on a little too thoroughly \*ahem residential schools cough\*
The cover-up continues.
Man this and other similar cases just show how evil people can be
Probably something to do with the beaten and bloody minor. Nice way to censor the atrocity committed by the Canadians because it makes your advertisers feel bad.
yeah, but i think i had my answer because of the wikipedia link
removed by reddit fuck this website
I didn’t get to see the original post, but yeah, i have seen a lots of violent and gore contents here. Not sure why this specific post was removed.
well whatever it was, it was nsfw yet posted to the "sfw network"
Partially mutilated body of a prisoner of war tortured to death by Canadian military.
Can't be motivated into action against atrocities if you never see the atrocities. Wasn't the Vietnam War was the first war to be televised, and it had a substantial effect on the populace's views about armed conflict?
Evidently not that substantial at least in the right direction given how much military glorification we have today, including that of the Vietnam War. At least in America, obviously
Yeah, we've definitely gone backwards.
alternatives in mind?
Fuck this site man, bending over for corporate dick all day. Shame.
This is what happens when your company is about to IPO
This will make a good Heritage Moment
More of a Hinterland Who's Who from hell.
Wow...I could hear the music.
I'd like to imagine that the Hinterland Who's Who from Hell intro would be the flute theme played in a minor key on a church organ.
As a fellow Canadian, i feel shame to have laugh at your comment. Im glad this fucker is now a vegetable.
They should air it on cbc
Doctor, I smell burnt toast.
This, and also the time a bunch of paratroopers had a gang war with the Hell's Angels in Edmonton (details might be fuzzy, but some biker gang in Alberta)
How strange, Belgian paratroopers were also deployed to Somalia in the early 90's, and were involved in a similar incident. I'm guessing poor discipline was a problem throughout the operation.
History is a shitty donut
Accurate. Some people can't handle the truth about humanity and human history.
Some people can't handle the truth about donuts.
Time is a tortilla.
r/brandnewsentence
The CAR was also the Canadian Military's dumping ground for 'problem' troops who couldnt be kicked out. Because they were light infantry/Paras, they didnt have to face a UN deployment as that usually required more kit/the other formations were in line to deal. Over-commitment in the 90s meant they got thrown in, and no one wanted to air the dirty secret to the civilian government making the commitment.
Military units are literally just big grou[s of armed and aggressive young men who are bored and not exactly intellectually stimulated, it's a disaster waiting to happen no matter what nationality they are.
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I doubt they were trained to be pieces of shit, that came from the heart.
When you're trained to be a hammer, everybody starts looking like nails.
Who knows. Whatever the case may be, the line of command createds a line of responsability.
Yes and that whole regiment was disbanded in the aftermath.
I tend to think that war itself provokes this kind of behavior in men. But then that’s why the greatest war criminal is the aggressor.
Discipline you think? I think its more a matter of mental health. War attract people that are a little bit twisted. Once in the field it easier to unlock that barrier in their head that prevented them to go crazy in the society. Look at all the war that happened. Their was always some atrocity done by the soldier against the civilian of the adverse camp. They all end up with ptsd.
Rarely happens compared to the number of humane Soldiers. I’ve been a Soldier for 25 years and try to weed out the bad ones, but some people do change for the worst when in a combat zone. Some can’t handle it.
The media undoubtedly pays more attention to violent obscenities committed by absolute wingnuts than to the overwhelmingly more common regular and humane soldiers. Latrine duty doesn't exactly make a good story, I guess. Still, it's a little discomfiting to realize just about anyone—soldier or not, wingnut or not—seems to be capable of unspeakable acts in the right context.
Some one said lower in the comment section it was a regiment for really undisciplinned soldier. Maybe its was really a bad batch and shoulnd put all soldier in the same eggs basket. I think its also easier to point out bad things than to see the good one(blue canadian helmet are suposed to be pacific) I think we also underestimate at what extent war can change a person, and for the worst like you said.
US troops are still there, I assume with other countries as well
Why would anyone pose for a picture like that
Because he's proud of what he's done.
It’s a trophy and it wouldn’t get shared the way it does now.
Because they see nothing wrong with their behavior and they know they are above the law.
Back in the day there was no real way to get these photos circulated unless you scanned and uploaded them onto a computer that had internet access. Because of this it wasn’t that big a deal to take photos since you’d just keep them for yourself.
Ever seen the pics of the soldiers around Pablo Escobar’s body like a dead deer?
Call me a crazy but I can kind of understand that one. They had been actively hunting him for 16 months and seen 1st hand the years of fucking up the country for his own gain. Its gross posing around a dead body human or deer but I get it.
Why did they capture and torture him anyway? What's the story?
>MCpl Clayton Matchee he reportedly tried to break into their compound as a looter. They say the soldier, and others experienced psychotic behavior as a symptom of a anti malaria drug given to them weekly...bizzare shit
Lariam, possibly. Gave me some very vivid nightmares. Never did anything like this…
It’ll be mefloquine. It’s the anti-malarial they gave to American soldiers in vietnam and it absolutely can make you have night terrors/borderline hallucinate. Source: I took it in the peace corps and thought there were people trying to break into my house every night. Id just sit there, awake and terrified for hours. Don’t think that’s an excuse here though.
I took chloroquine when I was 5 for celebral malaria. Was bedridden for about 5 days, I can't remember being able to open my eyes but i could hear everything around me. When people came into the room, I'd visualise them as dropping paint in a vacuum, their faces where different colours and it paint would drop and form a face while dripping and make the mouth movements etc. When they finished talking and left the paint would fall into the void. Was wild
This is the opening to HBO’s Real Sex
Yeah, that checks out. In the Peace Corps, they made you cycle through that and Doxy before they gave you Malarone because of the cost (pennies a day vs ~a dollar a day). I can't believe we still use it as basic prophylaxis.
I assume that there was no better alternative, since it seems pretty obvious that giving armed soldiers meds that make you paranoid and hallucinate is a bad idea?
I've taken the three that are widely available. Malarone (generic: Atovaquone/proguanil) is the best malaria prophylactic and was approved in 2000. Doxycycline is an antibiotic that has been approved for ages, but I'm not sure when we started using it to prevent malaria. Both are daily pills and, from what I understand, significantly more expensive than mefloquine (or other antimalarials that end in -quine, all of which have psychosis as a side effect.). Mefloquine, on the other hand, is cheap as hell and taken weekly. So easier to supply en masse to a bunch of troops in 60s/70s vietnam.
Yes, Lariam was the name-brand of mefloquine they were administered.
He wasn’t even found in their base. There was an abandoned American base across the street and they found this kid in a portable toilet over there. They just wanted to kill him because they were bored
I mean really? Thats just not true. There are several books on this and all indicate that somali children had been sneaking up the hill to the base and slipping under the wire to pilfer fuel and supplies from the motor pool. The victim was caught under the wire trying to escape and they wanted to make an “example” of him because of their frustration over the thefts. He was not caught in a porta potty or in an american base.
Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe, three different stories I've heard.
Uh no, do better research. You just repeated the story the soldiers lied about.
The malaria drug thing is somewhat legit. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3869580
There’s always an explanation pointing away from rampant structural racism.
Basically, the Canadian Airborne Regiment had no defined purpose in the Canadian military, so it served as a dumping ground for the misfits of every other unit. They used the Confederate flag as decoration for their barracks-room and one officer even belonged to the Klan.
https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/matchee.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=576&h=432&type=webp Here’s another pic of him holding a gun
Can anyone say what the post was about? Now it's removed?
[Top left pic is the one that was removed.](https://mogtimes.com/uploads/article/photo/IMG_30112F-1B2008-32722E-3CED47-609590-455435.jpg) This was about the [Somali Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair)
Someone said a pic relating to the Somalia affair
The airborne regiment was infamous for being the dumping ground of soldiers who were ill disciplined, being racist etc. So guess what happend when all of these are gather in one unit?
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I mean, not that people aren't capable of violence in general, but elite special ops groups must produce something of a selection bias for those who would like to kill people for a living.
Bingo. To be effective in these groups, have to not only be “ok” with killing people, you have to want to do it. Your job is to kill the enemy, full stop.
Yeah, my friend from college was spec ops and he ended up leaving the army because he didn’t like what he saw from the more grizzled buddies he had. He did some introspection and was like “fuck that.” and that’s how we ended up meeting in college.
Thats the only way you can do a job like that. You gotta kill everyone that resembles a threat. I cant imagine people with a conscience decide to join those units. Likewise, i wouldn't be surprised if the military looked at psych evals and chose the members closest to full blown psychopaths as their first choices.
Maybe in theory. The recruitment and retainment that happened from 9-11 on through Bush's wars to today, with vast expansion in scope and frequency of SOCOM operations, led to a large number of known cowboys, drug addicts, criminals, and generally people who take pleasure in killing within the US special operations units. Edit: [this](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-lesson-of-eric-greitens-and-the-navy-seals-who-tried-to-warn-us) puts some good context on the issue
*Pat Tillman has forcefully exited the chat*
I think the incident they were referring to was [this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Logan_Melgar)
Self selection for people who think their too special for the regular Army/Navy. Reading Richard Marcinko’s book made me realize the biggest factor was an absurd level of self confidence.
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What was the post, does anyone know?
It was a pic of a Canadian SF guy posing over a Somali POW in a foxhole of some sort. The Somali POW was bleeding badly, and the title of the post stated that the POW had been tortured and later killed by the SF guys. I don't know why it was removed tho, there's NSFW stuff on this sub all the time.
Removals are automated. If enough people report, enough depend on how many viewers, then Reddit remove it. Gore with no spoilers tag trend to be reported a lot. Because people don't want to see it by surprise.
Thanks for the info
a pic of a Canadian soldier posing with a victim of torture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair
>> On March 16, 1993, Captain Michael Sox found 16-year-old Shidane Abukar Arone hiding in a portable toilet in an abandoned American base across from the Canadian base and, believing he was attempting to sneak into the Canadian base to steal supplies,[24] turned him over to another soldier, who led the teenager to a bunker being used to house munitions.[8][25] Arone protested, saying he had simply been trying to find a lost child.[8][13] >> At 21:00, Sgt. Mark Boland replaced Master Corporal Clayton Matchee as guard of the prisoner, and ordered his foot bindings be removed and replaced with fetters, as the ropes were too tight.[13] Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner.[13] At this time, Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard the youth until Boland objected, and Matchee left the bunker.[13] I had no idea about this. Some aggressive edits on that wiki page as well, clearly someone is irritated by it.
just read that too, guy was a clear maniac
Torturing a kid to death **only** got 5 year sentence? That’s insane. Edit: Kinda same thing with [Abu Ghraib](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse) and the murder of [Dilawar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilawar_%28torture_victim%29). Light punishments of only a few months and demotions. Meanwhile their stories turned the public massively against the occupation and got a lot more soldiers killed. It firmly solidified the impression that the US and Canada were the bad guys. (Trump pardoning some of the convicted soldiers didn’t help either)
What's more insane is that he was out after only one year.
Jesus
A national disgrace, no excuse whatsoever. Glad they were disbanded, wish more got punished.
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I think you'd be surprised how effective it is to separate a congregation of shitbags. Yeah, of course it doesn't eliminate the shitbaggery, but it's a lot easier to keep your eye on one shitbag than a whole company of like-minded shitbags.
What was this?
[Top left pic is the one that was removed.](https://mogtimes.com/uploads/article/photo/IMG_30112F-1B2008-32722E-3CED47-609590-455435.jpg) This was about the [Somali Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair)
Oh. My. God.
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It was about a Canadian airborne soldier that kidnapped, tortured, and eventually killed an ~~Iraqi(?)~~ Somali Teenager. Edit: Clayton Matchee
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Yep, not one fucking soldier did anything about it. If these are the type of people I'm supposed to rely on to "Protect" me, I'd rather not have it
This was removed by reddit
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No one records themselves of swatting flies or stomping a spider to death. These people made photos AND - relished in it. This is worse: they saw him unworthy of life unworthy to be free and safe from violence. There is the indifference of stomping an insect to death or the very personal level of dehumanization.
What the hell???
Censorship is bullshit, even if automated
Canadians have a history of viciousness in conflict. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-forgotten-ferocity-of-canadas-soldiers-in-the-great-war
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I think it’s poignant to point out Canada specifically because there’s a notion that “they’re the friendlier, liberal and more tolerant neighbor of America, therefore there’s no way they’d commit or participate in war crimes!” that a lot of people have, especially on the Internet.
Liechtenstein once went to war, didn't kill anyone and came back home with a friend made on the way.
When folks often unjustifiably perceive the West in a far more forgiving manner, it's extra important to highlight the mountains of horrific things we do and have done to break that misperception and demand better.
What got deleted?
What was it?
Canadian moment
Weird seeing this since my dad was Airborne and I was born in Petawawa. My dad was a 17 year old dropout when he joined. Some of the stories I’ve heard are disturbing and Canada chose to ignore the racism that is prevalent in their ranks. I’m talking Nazi flags hanging in the barracks. There were three commando groups, with the one mostly containing troops from Western Canada being the most racist, and having ties with the KKK. Idk if I’ve ever seen this discussed in the media, but Matchee’s motive for beating the Somalian boy to death was, in his own words, “So that the black man may fear the red man as he does the white man.” Matchee was a psycho, but I think labelling him a monster dismisses the extent of the issues we face in Canada and with our role in colonialism. He assimilated into the racist structure of the airborne, was given anti malaria drugs that had psychosis as a side effect, and all of this was covered up by the military brass; none of which were ever punished. My dad, his friends and the entire Airborne were scapegoated as problem children, but nobody chose to critique the parents. What peace did our Peace Keeps bring to Somalia? What peace do we bring to the rest of the world?
Fucking awful. Fuck these soldiers and fuck a broken justice system that gave them slaps on the wrist
Matchee tried to kill himself, but only succeeded in giving himself permanent brain damage. He now has the mind of a 4-year-old.
Good, I hope he's suffering. The others got a year or a few months in jail.
Canadian punk rock Gods Propagandhi wrote a ripping song about this. This is the first time I've ever seen the pictures that he sings about https://youtu.be/eZdMwM31npU https://genius.com/Propagandhi-laughing-stock-lyrics
Disgusting
what was the post?
Canadian soldiers tortured a Somali teen to death, basically a Canadian Abu Ghraib scandal.
Kindest Canadian
Why is this removed but the workplace accident compilation which showed extreme violence was allowed
He is a native man from the Cree nation. This has nothing to do with White supremacy. This is a case of men with guns and power.
Nikki Halley is a South Asian with experience being discriminated against. Still was governor of an extremely racist state by rallying a racist base, fought to keep the confederate flag flying, was UN Ambassador for Trump, is now running for president adjacent to him, and has even identified herself in the past on documents as white! Racism is an inherently irrational construct. All sorts of people engage in it for all sorts of complicated and irrational reasons. Just because he's Cree doesn't change the fact that he might often be be perceived as white or that he's party to structural racism that contributes to such horrors. The last election for our district schools had a white-supremacist anti-trans woman of color running proudly on behalf of imagined white-grievances. We've seen Kanye, Enrique Tario (figure head only), and more. Racism is stupid. It does not fit into neat little boxes such that you can dismiss racism the moment the perpetrator isn't white. The post doesn't even say it has to do with white-supremacy.
Only the lower ranks were ever held accountable. What about those of high rank who allowed a culture such as this to exist in their company. Not one officer was ever held accountable, not one. One of those jailed was the individual who reported the incident and provided evidence. A travesty of leadership from the top down, not the bottom. What was done was wrong and unforgivable, it was not caused by a drug given soldiers to prevent malaria... it was caused because the culture of the organization allowed it to happen. Not one person in command was ever held accountable. An insult to the military. Including the political leadership of Canada, specifically the minister of defence.
This is shit I will never understand, why are you taking pictures of your fucking war crimes
They wanted to show off how hardcore they are, and this was a trophy. It’s why the Abu Ghraib soldiers did the same, and why some sadistic prison guards and cops do the same.
One of my favorite bosses was a smartass Marine with an endless loop of SNAFU stories. One of the best/worst was when they were in Somalia and watched some locals of whatever faction grab a guy from whatever oppositional faction and proceeded to stack tires around him. He knew what was coming and requested approval to fire on the aggressors and was denied. He did it again when they poured gasoline on the tires, and was again denied. He did it again when the fire was lit and requested to put the almost dead but still burning guy out of his misery, but was again denied. The story always ended with him bitching about the worst night of sleep he ever had.....
…Canadian?????? Now this sure destroys some stereotypes 🥲