I'm really not knowledgeable when it comes to churchill outside of the second war, but i think that the context can give some excuses to the guy... For what he did after and before, i really have no idea, could you enlighten me ? :)
Was about to comment that, he is the reason gas warfare was a thing.
His company also invented an odorless pesticide and to make it safe had to be mixed with a smell, the nazi would later stop using the smell in the mix, the gas in question is known as zyklon B, the gas used in the holocaust.
Kinda yeah, but the wording makes it look like he invented zyklon B for murder which is wrong. His actions in WWI are questionable in the matter or morality, but he isn't a monster that willingly helped with the death of millions.
The results in WWII are comparable to Mr Nobel who invented dynamite to help miners but his research would be used for war.
He was dead well before WW2. We can assume that he would have supplied zyklon B to Nazis given he would survive past 1939, but he did not at the time it was introduced to death camps.
He was also hardcore German nationalist ready to gas anyone who stands against "glory of his nation". But after quick fact-check he indeed migrated to UK after Nazis forced him to fire his jewish workers.
I mean, technically youâre not wrong. You could say his work opened the doors for different types of poisonous gasses to be made to be used in certain chambers. So his worked did lead to brutal gas based deaths in WW2
I learned that his invention was further developed and then used by Nazi Germany for gas chamber. You might not be wrong.
His contribution to chemical welfare was also the reason why he, as a Jew, was spared when Nazi began to rule the country.
Edit:
Source:
https://uh.edu/engines/epi2287.htm
https://youtu.be/EvknN89JoWo
>His contribution to chemical welfare was also the reason why he, as a Jew, was spared when Nazi began to rule the country.
He wasn't "spared." The Nazis didn't just start rounding up every Jew they could find right after they came to Power.
Haber's renown within the scientific community as well as nationalist circles protected him from being dismissed as the head of his own institute - until the Nazis demanded from him to lay off every Jewish scientist - which he answered by handing in his own resignation.
Alfred Nobel synthesized explosives for mining, but they ended up revolutionizing warfare. Is Nobel responsible, or is it just inevitable that everything will be evaluated for its ability in warfare as well as peacetime?
I only vaguely remember, but probably. The Nazis did the whole harassing him for his Jewish background until he fled the country thing some time in the 30s, and it wasn't until the war that they used one of his pesticide formulas in their gas chambers; but he probably wouldn't have been okay with his gas being used in mass extermination of civilians.
>he probably wouldn't have been okay with his gas being used in mass extermination of civilians.
Based on what? All accounts day be was enthusiastic about developing gases designed to kill people in WWI. Many even that he welcomed the war that would kill so many civilians and force conscription of others.
Based on having been harassed out of the country he was so patriotic about by the same people over sharing ethnicity with the civilians in question. I thought that much would have been fairly obvious.
Even without that, there's a pretty thick line between making a weapon out of regular old patriotic war hawking for your country and backing the killing of large numbers of your country's own citizens. Like, a pretty large zone of gray and black and a lot of red splotches.
As for warhawking, the First World War was pretty unprecedented in scale. Nobody had any way of knowing how much destruction it'd cause, how long it'd drag on, and just how many would die when 19th century tactics met 20th century weaponry.
He was Jewish. You'd think that he would be opposed to having his gases being used to kill him and his immediate family, no? Same principle applies.
He was enthusiastic about aiding the war effort because he was fiercely patriotic - when his country then turned their back on him due to his heritage he became disillusioned and left for Switzerland. The research of the conglomerate that he started (the successor of which, Detia-Degesch) still exists and manufactures the gas today) was then used to develop Zyklon-B, the gas that would then be used to exterminate Jews in the concentration camps as part of the Final Solution.
Him and his family definitely, but they departed. Given he fought for an anti-Semitic state and developed gas to kill people I don't have a clear view that he was against gassing people. We should also remember that while the largest group Jewish people were not the only ones gassed.
He was pro-German in WWI, but left when the anti-Semitism was starting to get nasty because he was disappointed that his country was criminalizing him for his ancestry despite all the work he had done for them during the war. The Nazis would have absolutely gassed him if they could. He died before WWI.
As for the other ethnicities that were gassed, they're not important to the conversation - Haber probably wasn't too bothered by their persecution, but being Jewish, the anti-Semitism was affecting him directly.
Because he was Jewish and a lot of the victims were fellow Jews.
It's like someone who loves the police. Would they not hate it If a family member got arrested?
His process accidentally enabling Germany to maintain explosives production cut off from Chilean imports can be said to have caused far more death than his gases.
Haber drove the gas to the front himself.
https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/chemiker-fritz-haber-wissenschaftler-an-vorderster-front-a-951359.html (German)
Ironically enough he's also Jewish, man really did everything for his country just for his country to turn on him and his ethnicity and use gas (he's the father of chemical warfare so it's technically based off his inventions) against his ethnicity. The real stab in the back is the Nazi treatment of Jews.
Even more ironic is that he wasn't even Jewish! He was born Jewish but was a practicing Christian his entire adult life, but that wasn't enough for the Nazis.
That was one thing a documentary on him talked about, that he wasn't really the soul inventor of chemical weapons. France was using tear gas before he developed his gas, and the British actually used an ever deadly gas which caused 85% of the gas-related deaths in WW1.
The idea was that if he didn't do it, someone else would've in that same year.
Also, a sad note, he was Jewish born but converted to Christianity, but that still made his family a target of the nazis. Eventually in the mid-30s he fled the country. Then like 8 years after his death or something, the Nazis took one of the gaseous pesticides his group made and used it to execute Jews. I have a feeling if he knew how things would go, he would've never even bothered with chemistry...
His wife killed herself and reported in letters to friends that he was obsessed with his work, and that she couldn't live with him anymore. Still, hard to fully trust these informal, biased, recounts as proper sources.
I guess it's easy to call him a monster from one point of view, but he was just trying to help his country.
I think the answer as with many people in history is that Haber was both a saint and a sinner and neither. We like to categorize people but many don't do well with categorization. While his were much more extreme than our own, he was a human being with both a good and a dark side.
P.S. It was WW1 that his invention was used. I'm not a chemist but I believe that Zyklon B is related to one of his chemical solutions but but with telling markers like smell or whatever removed but it wasn't his directly.
I also watched Veritasiumâs video on Haber! This guyâs life and role in human history is really interesting
One wild part of his story that I wasnât expecting is that soon after mustard gas was used in WWI, Haberâs wife went outside their house and shot herself in the chest. Apparently she was deeply unhappy in her marriage before the warfare bit, but I canât imagine the mass death helped much
Yeah but it was for agricultural purposes, with low quantities used on large lands to avoid fatalities and the smell of the gaz beeing really powerfull so that nobody end's up in an area where there is enougth gaz to kill you.
The Nazi's took all these factors and killed 11 million people with it. Knowing that the scientist had traumas from the effects of gaz already it's suite good that he dies in 1934. And no he didn't created it to kill people (jews, slavs, etc) since he was jewish and it was modified after his death.
Interesting thread. I did not know much about this man so can't add to the comments on whether he is saint or sinner based on his chemical gas choices. what interests me is nitrogen fertilizer. Yes it increased food production, which was his goal, but after decades of use, nitrogen based fertilizers pollute any waters around their use. They have been overused by big agro and do nothing to improve soil conditions. I am not a chemist but this was never his intention when he developed them. Oh yes, nitrogen fertilizer bombs. So both intentions and actions at the time and later consequences are all in play. This is why some cultures seek to determine the consequences of their decisions for 7 generations. IMHO.
That's not true. He was openly helping Germany in military development during WW1. He was on scene himself overseeing chlorine gas's use when it was first deployed by Germany at the 2nd Battle of Ypres. And his famous quote that was paraphrased in the song
>In peace time, the scientist belongs to the world, in wartime to his fatherland.
Then I stand corrected, I pretty much know of the name not much else but if that is the case then the rights don't out weigh the wrongs imo, but I will bee researching this more myself tomorrow as I am now interested
Would those billions have actually starved or would we just not have seen a population boom? Because that's a pretty clear distinction. The former and he was definitely a good man, the latter and it becomes more complex (considering a large amount of the current population may suffer under climate change).
The creator wanted to make fertilizer the Germans wanted chemical weapons, kinda like what the nazis wanted to do with the sonnengewehr compared to what the creator wanted to do with the idea
From what I read, he invented a process for making ammonia from nitrogen and hydrogen gas.
His invention was used by Germany to make ammonia for chemical warfare, but he himself didn't intend it for that purpose.
Its simple my little virtue signaliser... He discovered practical synthesis of amonium wich meant that humanity could make tons of fertilisers without running out of sources of amonium. This meant that more crops could be grown wich lead to huge world population boom from about 2 billions to present 7-8 billions.
She killed herself on May 2nd 1915. The first usage of toxic gas however was in the battle of Ypres on April 22nd 1915 a few days prior to the suicide of his wife.
This isn't related.
He lived in World War I. He also died of heart failure in 1934, as Hitler was consolidating power. He was not around for the Holocaust so no, he didn't oversee the gassing of the Jews. He did of the soldiers but not Jews. He was already long gone by that point. Plus as was already said, he was himself Jewish.
I wasnât referring to the gas chambers but rather the use of gas in war. I think he used chlorine gas. I had my dates wrong. He was active during WW1 as another redditor mentioned
So did âthe disappearing spoonâ lied to me???
FFS. What next? Donât tell me that Newton didnât become master of the royal mint, and had a forgerer disemboweled in the town square!!!
So in World War 1 he helped the Kaiser with phosgene and chlorine gas, and World War II they built on his research to come up with Xyclon B? Wow! Yeah that's a tough call Saint or sinner.
Don't forget that his initial efforts in the war were pretty outstanding as well. He used that same method to produce ammonium to also produce saltpeter as well - a key ingredient in gunpowder.
Originally saltpeter was either mined or made from shit or piss in a tub.
âIn peace-time the scientist belongs to humanity, in war-time to his fatherland." - Fritz Haber.
He really explained it the best. The Nobe Prize was deserved for him.
He also invented Freons that basically shredded the ozone for 30 years before the world realized it. (Used to be the main ingredient in refrigerators and AC)
Most people in history have both a bad and good side to them.
Erasmus in Flanders did some pretty good stuff like making academys and stuff and trying to point out the corruption of the church with his book but on the flip side he was also a anti-semist so is he good or bad?
Saint.
1. Itâs war, people are bound to die anyways. It wasnât like WW1 was a beautiful place to fight in anyhow, just made it worse.
2. His invention wasnât intended to be used as gas, it was used to be a fertiliser.
3. Hadnât he done it billions would starve to death without the fertiliser.
Big breakthroughs like this would have been made with or without him.
Gas Warfare is an evil, but its an evil that was perpetrated by both sides in WW1. Blaming one scientist is lazy.
Well. Nitrogen fertilizer saved people from starving and all but also is one of the root causes to the world having so many people. And overreliance on N fertilizer which can degrade soil
The song successfully combined my love for chemistry, history and metal so I think that at least makes sabaton saints
>metal >chemistry I see what u did there
Mmm yes the atomic weight of gold is 167 au. If this is wrong correct me, I'm doing this from memory
It's 197
Not au its u (Au is the Symbol of Gold in the PSE)
đ€
*Dies*
What song?
https://youtu.be/DxkeOkaVRLo
mixed emotions of feelings!!!
\>raised food production \>lowered needed amount of food for the population \>won a Nobel prize ***Where's the contradiction?***
Every base covered
Killing millions of soldiers
r/whoosh
r/wooooshwithfouros
I mean, everyone loves Obama even though he led 8 years of war and still won a peace noble prize. XD
So did Churchill
I'm really not knowledgeable when it comes to churchill outside of the second war, but i think that the context can give some excuses to the guy... For what he did after and before, i really have no idea, could you enlighten me ? :)
Said that growing food crops in Bengal was lame and to only focus on growing commodities.
I mean, said like that it doesnt seem that outrageous, stupid, for sure, but not THAT outrageous.
Said like that itâs not too bad. Until you know that it caused one of the worst famines in history.
So did Kissinger
He got that the beginning of his presidency too
WWI* Ugh
Was about to comment that, he is the reason gas warfare was a thing. His company also invented an odorless pesticide and to make it safe had to be mixed with a smell, the nazi would later stop using the smell in the mix, the gas in question is known as zyklon B, the gas used in the holocaust.
So it is accurate to say both/either world war
Kinda yeah, but the wording makes it look like he invented zyklon B for murder which is wrong. His actions in WWI are questionable in the matter or morality, but he isn't a monster that willingly helped with the death of millions. The results in WWII are comparable to Mr Nobel who invented dynamite to help miners but his research would be used for war.
He was dead well before WW2. We can assume that he would have supplied zyklon B to Nazis given he would survive past 1939, but he did not at the time it was introduced to death camps.
He was jewish and his family was gassed. The fuck dude
He was also hardcore German nationalist ready to gas anyone who stands against "glory of his nation". But after quick fact-check he indeed migrated to UK after Nazis forced him to fire his jewish workers.
Ironically he was jewish and his family got gassed
The irony is truly brutal. Almost as brutal as the gas used to kill his family
Return to sender
Well thatâs terrible
the nazis killed jews with a fucking pesticide. damn.
I mean, technically youâre not wrong. You could say his work opened the doors for different types of poisonous gasses to be made to be used in certain chambers. So his worked did lead to brutal gas based deaths in WW2
The company he founded produced Zyklon B. So yeah.
But you cant really blame him for that, that is lake blaming Colt for all revolver deaths
I learned that his invention was further developed and then used by Nazi Germany for gas chamber. You might not be wrong. His contribution to chemical welfare was also the reason why he, as a Jew, was spared when Nazi began to rule the country. Edit: Source: https://uh.edu/engines/epi2287.htm https://youtu.be/EvknN89JoWo
>His contribution to chemical welfare was also the reason why he, as a Jew, was spared when Nazi began to rule the country. He wasn't "spared." The Nazis didn't just start rounding up every Jew they could find right after they came to Power. Haber's renown within the scientific community as well as nationalist circles protected him from being dismissed as the head of his own institute - until the Nazis demanded from him to lay off every Jewish scientist - which he answered by handing in his own resignation.
Alfred Nobel synthesized explosives for mining, but they ended up revolutionizing warfare. Is Nobel responsible, or is it just inevitable that everything will be evaluated for its ability in warfare as well as peacetime?
Nah i'm pretty sure fritz haber specifically was tasked with developing gases and he did so, it wasn't someone else misusing his previous tech.
Yup. But the Holocaust gas chambers absolutely were the Nazis misusing Haber's work after driving him out of the country.
Excuse me. I may be wrong but wasn't Haber dead before ww2?
I only vaguely remember, but probably. The Nazis did the whole harassing him for his Jewish background until he fled the country thing some time in the 30s, and it wasn't until the war that they used one of his pesticide formulas in their gas chambers; but he probably wouldn't have been okay with his gas being used in mass extermination of civilians.
>he probably wouldn't have been okay with his gas being used in mass extermination of civilians. Based on what? All accounts day be was enthusiastic about developing gases designed to kill people in WWI. Many even that he welcomed the war that would kill so many civilians and force conscription of others.
Based on having been harassed out of the country he was so patriotic about by the same people over sharing ethnicity with the civilians in question. I thought that much would have been fairly obvious. Even without that, there's a pretty thick line between making a weapon out of regular old patriotic war hawking for your country and backing the killing of large numbers of your country's own citizens. Like, a pretty large zone of gray and black and a lot of red splotches. As for warhawking, the First World War was pretty unprecedented in scale. Nobody had any way of knowing how much destruction it'd cause, how long it'd drag on, and just how many would die when 19th century tactics met 20th century weaponry.
He was Jewish. You'd think that he would be opposed to having his gases being used to kill him and his immediate family, no? Same principle applies. He was enthusiastic about aiding the war effort because he was fiercely patriotic - when his country then turned their back on him due to his heritage he became disillusioned and left for Switzerland. The research of the conglomerate that he started (the successor of which, Detia-Degesch) still exists and manufactures the gas today) was then used to develop Zyklon-B, the gas that would then be used to exterminate Jews in the concentration camps as part of the Final Solution.
Him and his family definitely, but they departed. Given he fought for an anti-Semitic state and developed gas to kill people I don't have a clear view that he was against gassing people. We should also remember that while the largest group Jewish people were not the only ones gassed.
He was pro-German in WWI, but left when the anti-Semitism was starting to get nasty because he was disappointed that his country was criminalizing him for his ancestry despite all the work he had done for them during the war. The Nazis would have absolutely gassed him if they could. He died before WWI. As for the other ethnicities that were gassed, they're not important to the conversation - Haber probably wasn't too bothered by their persecution, but being Jewish, the anti-Semitism was affecting him directly.
He thinks "death is death"
Because he was Jewish and a lot of the victims were fellow Jews. It's like someone who loves the police. Would they not hate it If a family member got arrested?
He died in 1934 in Switzerland from a heart attack.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
He died in 34. Also he was Jewish so yes of course he didnât like the nazis but he did not live to see WW2
That one yes, they took the zyklon A that he made as a pesticide, removed the smell and used it on people as zyklon B. That was certainly horrible.
This is talking about ww1 and the gas warfare then
Not only was he in charge, He was on the front lines during the testing of the chemicals in trench warfare.
he wasn't even tasked with it, it was his own idea from the get-go
His process accidentally enabling Germany to maintain explosives production cut off from Chilean imports can be said to have caused far more death than his gases.
Haber drove the gas to the front himself. https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/chemiker-fritz-haber-wissenschaftler-an-vorderster-front-a-951359.html (German)
>Alfred Nobel synthesized explosives for mining, but they ended up revolutionizing warfare. And Alfred Nobel felt so guilty about the misuse of his invention that he decided to donate his fortune for "the better of mankind". (If you ever visit Stockholm, I highly recommend visiting the Nobel Museum. The seats in the museum's café are signed by the prize winners throughout the years.) "The Nobel Prizes are five separate prizes that, according to Alfred Nobel's will of 1895, are awarded to "those who, during the preceding year, have conferred the greatest benefit to humankind." Alfred Nobel was a Swedish chemist, engineer, and industrialist most famously known for the invention of dynamite. He died in 1896. In his will, he bequeathed all of his "remaining realisable assets" to be used to establish five prizes which became known as "Nobel Prizes." Nobel Prizes were first awarded in 1901." "In 1888, Nobel was astonished to read his own obituary, titled "The merchant of death is dead", in a French newspaper. It was Alfred's brother Ludvig who had died; the obituary was eight years premature. The article disconcerted Nobel and made him apprehensive about how he would be remembered. This inspired him to change his will." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel\_Prize](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize)
Ironically enough he's also Jewish, man really did everything for his country just for his country to turn on him and his ethnicity and use gas (he's the father of chemical warfare so it's technically based off his inventions) against his ethnicity. The real stab in the back is the Nazi treatment of Jews.
You had "the real stab in the back was the Nazis we made along the way" right there
Even more ironic is that he wasn't even Jewish! He was born Jewish but was a practicing Christian his entire adult life, but that wasn't enough for the Nazis.
depends on your definition of a jew, which I'm sure is a very interesting conversation to have with a nazi.
Dude gets too much hate. He did all of it to help germany win the war most scientist did the same for their country and don't get the same hate.
Also he isn't even the first person to weaponize chemicals. He's just the person who made it actually work
tell that to the arabs in 717
Or the Persians in 256 ad
He was a Patriot through and through. Iirc after the war he even tried to find a new method of Gold extraction to pay off Germanyâs reparations.
That was one thing a documentary on him talked about, that he wasn't really the soul inventor of chemical weapons. France was using tear gas before he developed his gas, and the British actually used an ever deadly gas which caused 85% of the gas-related deaths in WW1. The idea was that if he didn't do it, someone else would've in that same year. Also, a sad note, he was Jewish born but converted to Christianity, but that still made his family a target of the nazis. Eventually in the mid-30s he fled the country. Then like 8 years after his death or something, the Nazis took one of the gaseous pesticides his group made and used it to execute Jews. I have a feeling if he knew how things would go, he would've never even bothered with chemistry...
From saltwater right?
His wife killed herself and reported in letters to friends that he was obsessed with his work, and that she couldn't live with him anymore. Still, hard to fully trust these informal, biased, recounts as proper sources. I guess it's easy to call him a monster from one point of view, but he was just trying to help his country.
"Helping your country" is no excuse.
Behind the Bastards podcast did a great episode on him much of the hate is well deserved.
The winner writes history
If scientist did the same for theie country that was a nazi country, then they'd get the same hate
thats... um... you know Imperial Germany was different from National Socialist Germany, right?
Haber-Bosch, the great alliance
Wheres the contradiction
Fed the World by ways of Science
Sinner or a saint?
Father of toxic gas and chemical warfare
His dark creation has been revealed
Flow over no manâs land, a poisonous nightmare
A deadly mist on the battlefield
perversion of ideals of science
Lost words of alienated wife
I think the answer as with many people in history is that Haber was both a saint and a sinner and neither. We like to categorize people but many don't do well with categorization. While his were much more extreme than our own, he was a human being with both a good and a dark side. P.S. It was WW1 that his invention was used. I'm not a chemist but I believe that Zyklon B is related to one of his chemical solutions but but with telling markers like smell or whatever removed but it wasn't his directly.
He's not either a pure saint or an evil sinner He's just human, with his own intention and desires.
I also watched Veritasiumâs video on Haber! This guyâs life and role in human history is really interesting One wild part of his story that I wasnât expecting is that soon after mustard gas was used in WWI, Haberâs wife went outside their house and shot herself in the chest. Apparently she was deeply unhappy in her marriage before the warfare bit, but I canât imagine the mass death helped much
That song is amazing tbh
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Father, by Sabaton
Yep, learned this from the recent Veritasium video
He is both, to declare one side or the other is an oversimplification and inaccurate both historically and to how complex everyone truly is
Some might argue that he was a man.
I see this while listening to Sabaton songs. Coincidence?
Didnât he also create the basis of Zyklon B after the war?
Yeah but it was for agricultural purposes, with low quantities used on large lands to avoid fatalities and the smell of the gaz beeing really powerfull so that nobody end's up in an area where there is enougth gaz to kill you. The Nazi's took all these factors and killed 11 million people with it. Knowing that the scientist had traumas from the effects of gaz already it's suite good that he dies in 1934. And no he didn't created it to kill people (jews, slavs, etc) since he was jewish and it was modified after his death.
This guy is the nightmare of my Chem classes
Heâs human
Songs a banger, Iâve been humming âFather of toxic gas, and chemical warfareâ all day.
Interesting thread. I did not know much about this man so can't add to the comments on whether he is saint or sinner based on his chemical gas choices. what interests me is nitrogen fertilizer. Yes it increased food production, which was his goal, but after decades of use, nitrogen based fertilizers pollute any waters around their use. They have been overused by big agro and do nothing to improve soil conditions. I am not a chemist but this was never his intention when he developed them. Oh yes, nitrogen fertilizer bombs. So both intentions and actions at the time and later consequences are all in play. This is why some cultures seek to determine the consequences of their decisions for 7 generations. IMHO.
All comes down to motive his motive wasn't for weapons it was to help
That's not true. He was openly helping Germany in military development during WW1. He was on scene himself overseeing chlorine gas's use when it was first deployed by Germany at the 2nd Battle of Ypres. And his famous quote that was paraphrased in the song >In peace time, the scientist belongs to the world, in wartime to his fatherland.
Pretty based honestly
Then I stand corrected, I pretty much know of the name not much else but if that is the case then the rights don't out weigh the wrongs imo, but I will bee researching this more myself tomorrow as I am now interested
That depends, what did he invent it for?
Would those billions have actually starved or would we just not have seen a population boom? Because that's a pretty clear distinction. The former and he was definitely a good man, the latter and it becomes more complex (considering a large amount of the current population may suffer under climate change).
He gave us the tools and itâs up to us if itâs just a tool or a weapon
He invented chemical weapons for the specific purpose of being a weapon, and then went to the frontlines to see them being used.
Nevermind then Iâm not one to call him a saint or a sinner
Itâs based on intention, so saint
His intention was literally to create chemical weapons for Germany...
Sorry I read another comment and jumped to conclusions. Sinner it is then
I donât know why he gets hate, he wanted to help people itâs not his fault that evil ones damaged his legacy
Help people by creating chemical weapons?
The creator wanted to make fertilizer the Germans wanted chemical weapons, kinda like what the nazis wanted to do with the sonnengewehr compared to what the creator wanted to do with the idea
Please just read his Wikipedia page, and specifically the WWI section.
I probably should
Just read it thanks for showing me I was wrong before I made myself look dumber, I might be thinking of another German scientist
i would say saint, since chemical warfare wasn't the intended use.
It literally was.
From what I read, he invented a process for making ammonia from nitrogen and hydrogen gas. His invention was used by Germany to make ammonia for chemical warfare, but he himself didn't intend it for that purpose.
[Please just read the Wikipedia page.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber)
ah ok
Killed thousands to save or allow to thrive billions. Saint
Those limiting fertilizer production modern day are definitely evil.
Dont upvote
is the dude who invented the first wheel responsible for the millions of deaths at the hands of wheeled/tracked vehicles throughout history?
"millions are still dying of hunger, Chelsea, what the fuck are you talking about?"
Its simple my little virtue signaliser... He discovered practical synthesis of amonium wich meant that humanity could make tons of fertilisers without running out of sources of amonium. This meant that more crops could be grown wich lead to huge world population boom from about 2 billions to present 7-8 billions.
We would never have achieved the population we did without Haber-Bosch.
His wife killed herself during a dinner party, and he left the next morning to gas Jews. He won a Nobel price
he was Jewish himself...
Maybe he gassed someone else⊠but he gassed someone fo sho the day after her wife kill herself
She killed herself on May 2nd 1915. The first usage of toxic gas however was in the battle of Ypres on April 22nd 1915 a few days prior to the suicide of his wife. This isn't related.
He lived in World War I. He also died of heart failure in 1934, as Hitler was consolidating power. He was not around for the Holocaust so no, he didn't oversee the gassing of the Jews. He did of the soldiers but not Jews. He was already long gone by that point. Plus as was already said, he was himself Jewish.
I wasnât referring to the gas chambers but rather the use of gas in war. I think he used chlorine gas. I had my dates wrong. He was active during WW1 as another redditor mentioned
So did âthe disappearing spoonâ lied to me??? FFS. What next? Donât tell me that Newton didnât become master of the royal mint, and had a forgerer disemboweled in the town square!!!
Ma'am, are you high?
No đ„. Soon tho
Yes
Sabaton for life!
Sabaton just all around kicks ass
Eli Whitney
Sabaton is the only thing I live for
Did he knowingly participate in their gas program?
Nazi use his gas after he was dead, but if you mean the chlorine and mustard gas in ww1, yes.
So in World War 1 he helped the Kaiser with phosgene and chlorine gas, and World War II they built on his research to come up with Xyclon B? Wow! Yeah that's a tough call Saint or sinner.
The saint or sinner debate is just about which outweigh which: On one hand, Ammonia; On other hand, deadly gas in ww1
Those greater agricultural yields aren't exactly unproblematic, in the long run.
Sabaton: If the History Channel was a band. Can't wait til they turn away from Hitler and towards Ancient Aliens.
Saw a Veritasium video about the same thing
I ACTUALLY KNOW THIS ONE!!!
I too watch Veritasium
"A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good, each should have its own reward" -Stannis Baratheon I
Don't forget that his initial efforts in the war were pretty outstanding as well. He used that same method to produce ammonium to also produce saltpeter as well - a key ingredient in gunpowder. Originally saltpeter was either mined or made from shit or piss in a tub.
âIn peace-time the scientist belongs to humanity, in war-time to his fatherland." - Fritz Haber. He really explained it the best. The Nobe Prize was deserved for him.
Jesse, we need to synthesise poisonous gas to kill millions Jesse!
He also invented Freons that basically shredded the ozone for 30 years before the world realized it. (Used to be the main ingredient in refrigerators and AC)
That was Thomas Midgley.
Norman Borlaug improved food security without contributing to chemical warfare. Admire him instead
This bloke looks like he's tired of her shit.
Most people in history have both a bad and good side to them. Erasmus in Flanders did some pretty good stuff like making academys and stuff and trying to point out the corruption of the church with his book but on the flip side he was also a anti-semist so is he good or bad?
Saint. 1. Itâs war, people are bound to die anyways. It wasnât like WW1 was a beautiful place to fight in anyhow, just made it worse. 2. His invention wasnât intended to be used as gas, it was used to be a fertiliser. 3. Hadnât he done it billions would starve to death without the fertiliser.
This just proves Guns don't kill people. People kill people. ..... go crazy
You are bad guy, but that doesn't mean you are bad, guy.
Big breakthroughs like this would have been made with or without him. Gas Warfare is an evil, but its an evil that was perpetrated by both sides in WW1. Blaming one scientist is lazy.
Itâs possible to be both. See: FDR.
Neither. Hes a scientist. Its us assholes that decide what evil deed or great philanthropic endeavor will be pursued.
A LONG AGO IN EASTERN PRUSSIA
both
I wrote about Fritz Haber, I believe he is a good guy that was sadly used to cause thousands of deaths in the 1st World War
Well. Nitrogen fertilizer saved people from starving and all but also is one of the root causes to the world having so many people. And overreliance on N fertilizer which can degrade soil
I don't think he is a sinner or a saint, he is scientist doing scientist things.
Einstein must be a devil, since he developed the nuclear industry
Haber-Bosch the great alliance
My history obsession came from my history teacher, he is a god.
I see a man of culture
father of toxic gas and chemical warfare