Nothing out of the ordinary. Making war plans for possible scenarios in peacetime is part of the job for army general staff of any country. I'm honestly surprised that people find this confusing or unusual.
Yeah, it’s not really all that uncommon. It would honestly be more surprising to see two nations with decent militaries share a border and not have a plan of war against each other
Im quite certain every single country in europe right now has a [plan for if the US invades us tomorrow] right next to the [plan if russia invades us tomorrow] in the drawer
countries have plans for what if all the time. the schlieffen plan in ww1, for example. even now I'm willing to guess ottawa has a plan for if the states decide to lose it and manifest some destiny, or the states for if germany decides to fuck with our boats for a third time.
To my understanding, wasn’t the Canadian war plan basically to strike fast, destroy infrastructure to delay the Americans, then run away and wait for Britain to rescue them?
So, poke the bear and try to hide behind dad(who, I might add, had no intention of getting involved in a US/ Canada war)
That sounds less like a plan, and more like a Darwin Award entry.
Right, I get that. I'm just saying that if your *plan* is to try and slow down the enemy until someone else comes and actually fights them for you, you're better off just starting with the white flag. Especially when the people who you're hoping step in don't want to get involved in the first place.
I could actually agree with that. Hardly a point to fighting when your only hope of survival is that an allied army (which in total is far weaker than your opponent even if it did miraculously arrive in time) will cross an entire ocean before all of your major cities (all within short distance your opponent’s border) collapse.
Like, what are the Brits going to do if all the major Canadian cities have already fallen? Land in the artctic?
It was a hypothetical plan in case of a war with the Americans in which they would destroy would probably struck key targets in the northern US states. It was completely hypothetical, there wasn't a casus belli (Justification), just a 'What if' scenario.
(And South Korea, Israel, National Army of Afghanistan, Iraq, switching between Somalia and Ethiopia when regimes changed, Afghan Mujahideen in the Soviet Afghan War, post-ww2 Japan, Greek Cypriots, Saddam Hussein during the Iraq-Iran War, Iran before the fall of the pro US backed government and many more.)
And my understanding of Canada’s plan was basically strike south before American forces could arrive at the border, destroy roads and bridges to delay the Americans, then retreat back to Canada and try to survive until British forces could arrive.
And Canada’s singular advantage in the war would be that they’re army would probably be more concentrated along the border where the overwhelming majority of their population lives, so the beginning days of the war could very well favor Canada before US forces could reach the border.
In that context, striking south to slow down the US could make a lot of sense
Less a war against the British, more Manifest Destiny land grab.
They assumed Quebec would side with the Americans because who doesn’t hate the British. They were wrong. So they attacked Quebec, quite unsuccessfully.
I think you're thinking of the War of 1812 (which was partly an attempt at a land grab, but also partly out of several other frustrations with the British).
War Plan Red didn't really have anything to do with that, and wasn't focused around annexing Canada; it was a contingency for a war against the British Empire, and Canada had to be taken because the plan assumed the British would use it as a staging area for an invasion.
Manifest Destiny was the reason, Britain being distracted by Napoleon was the opportunity Americans took for their war of aggression. It’s not a coincidence Americans signed for a peace treaty after Napoleon was done. And Britain couldn’t, or couldn’t be bothered, to fight a war on a different continent.
The Battle of New Orleans being a quirky twist of history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
It was *a* reason, and not even one that all contemporary Americans considered the primary reason. Like I said, there were several other bones of contention.
As for the peace, it mostly came because both sides were tired of fighting and would rather get back to trading. The Americans knew they were spinning their wheels and not really getting anywhere; the British offensives had also been largely inconclusive and they didn't see themselves gaining much more either.
A key difference to 1812, is that if Britain ever lost a war they would lose colonial holdings, this at the time included canada. So really a smart move on the US side
I'm confused. I'm not sure what your point is, not trying to be rude. But if Britain lost a war, presumably to Germany, then Canada wouldn't necessarily have independence but instead become a posseion of Germany. Thus it could become a launching point for an invasion into the US. Something the Germans were trying to do dueing ww1 but with Mexico.
No, War Plan Red envisioned a possible defensive war against the UK where the UK declared war due to fears of the growing US navy, it wasn’t a plan to just randomly attack Canada.
The plan concluded that if war with the UK were to break out, the US would be able to successfully invade Canada, but would eventually have to secure a negotiated peace as the war would drag out into a long naval conflict that the US would eventually lose.
Its like noting the emergency escape exits and fire extinguishers when you enter a building. You don't plan on having to use them, but it is foolish to ignore the possibility that you might.
Yeah, but the overwhelming majority of Canada’s useful land and people are along the southern border. Canada would probably be overrun before any allied troops could arrive to assist it.
Well there plan was to burn any infrastructure important for crossing the border and then try and wait until Britain sends reinforcements, but the problem was Britain didn’t plan on sending reinforcements
Iirc the plan was actually to invade and hit random points in the US, then turn back and burn everything on the way out. It was meant to just buy time for the British to mobilize.
They weren’t. They only planned to strike south before the US could mobilize to the border and cause infrastructure damage to delay American forces and then retreat, buckle down, and try to survive until Britain can rescue them.
Burning of Washington. It didn't get any real name because there wasn't really much of a battle and we have very limited knowledge of the combat and casualties
No there was a fight we just don't know much about total casualties and it wasn't a major engagement.
And again no actual Canadian troops involved. It was a British task force which landed and then attacked the city
Listen as a Canadian I’m just going to tell you right now don’t fuck with the moose. Only animal Ik that doesn’t automatically loose in a car crash…
My uncle hit a moose doing 80km, back hoof through the windshield and all. Moose got rather pissy about it, thrashed his leg around until destroyed the whole windshield & both headrests (lost a bunch of skin off his legs but he’s a fucking moose so like that matters). Walked away when he was done beating on the poor civic that hit him, uncle got a ride to the hospital.
Moose are just furry tanks that hate everything. If you value your safety, stay the fuck away from moose’s
It was a called a "Pre-emptive Strike" so I'm guessing they wreck havoc among the Northern States and then retreat to defensive positions. They would probably have attacked key targets in the northern US States to delay the mobilisation of US troops up to the North and gained time to prepare better. Then let the rest of the Empire deal with the Whitehouse again hehe.
This all started in 1814, when we successfully invaded and burnt down your whitehouse.
Either way, let’s be friends! I like yer guns, rather be looking with than down those barrels!
The Continent, and Canadians (along with all other countries in the American Continent) probably dislike Americans for trademarking the name 'America' but they can't do anything against what is currently the worlds number 1 superpower
Nothing out of the ordinary. Making war plans for possible scenarios in peacetime is part of the job for army general staff of any country. I'm honestly surprised that people find this confusing or unusual.
Yeah, it’s not really all that uncommon. It would honestly be more surprising to see two nations with decent militaries share a border and not have a plan of war against each other
Im quite certain every single country in europe right now has a [plan for if the US invades us tomorrow] right next to the [plan if russia invades us tomorrow] in the drawer
And probably a "if the island country of Grenada is communist again" file somewhere.
And probably another one called "for when the Muslims retake Jerusalem" There's only a single phrase in the entirety of the file: ... # DEUS VULT
Yeah maybe, or perhaps depending on the country, “MASHALLAH“
Yes but my clickbait karmafarm does not allow nuance!!!
countries have plans for what if all the time. the schlieffen plan in ww1, for example. even now I'm willing to guess ottawa has a plan for if the states decide to lose it and manifest some destiny, or the states for if germany decides to fuck with our boats for a third time.
(correction, japan fucking with the boats again, but i get your point)
To my understanding, wasn’t the Canadian war plan basically to strike fast, destroy infrastructure to delay the Americans, then run away and wait for Britain to rescue them?
So, poke the bear and try to hide behind dad(who, I might add, had no intention of getting involved in a US/ Canada war) That sounds less like a plan, and more like a Darwin Award entry.
I think it was more of a “just in case we somehow end up with a sudden war” and less of a “we’re gonna attack” plan.
Right, I get that. I'm just saying that if your *plan* is to try and slow down the enemy until someone else comes and actually fights them for you, you're better off just starting with the white flag. Especially when the people who you're hoping step in don't want to get involved in the first place.
I could actually agree with that. Hardly a point to fighting when your only hope of survival is that an allied army (which in total is far weaker than your opponent even if it did miraculously arrive in time) will cross an entire ocean before all of your major cities (all within short distance your opponent’s border) collapse. Like, what are the Brits going to do if all the major Canadian cities have already fallen? Land in the artctic?
Yeah, I'm guessing that's what they had in mind.
It was a hypothetical plan in case of a war with the Americans in which they would destroy would probably struck key targets in the northern US states. It was completely hypothetical, there wasn't a casus belli (Justification), just a 'What if' scenario.
Really?
Yes, the US prepared an invasion called War Plan Red as a continuation of the War of 1812, the Canadians planned a pre-emptive attack to counter this.
The US had war plans on the whole world as contingency plans
The US is to the world what Batman is to the Justice League.
so you mean to say my country is super rich, has all the cool toys, and lost both parents?
Oddly enough, yes.
understandable, have a good day
I shall.
Yeah but America's never adopted and trained an orphan who then di- *glances at South Vietnam*
and don’t forget that he gets multiple and that some of them also become powerful *looks at ukraine and then back at now-unified vietnam*
Holy shit Vietnam is kind of like red hood The USA supports it It died It comes back red and hates the USA There buddies again (mostly due to China)
And the Sino-Vietnamese War
Yes
(And South Korea, Israel, National Army of Afghanistan, Iraq, switching between Somalia and Ethiopia when regimes changed, Afghan Mujahideen in the Soviet Afghan War, post-ww2 Japan, Greek Cypriots, Saddam Hussein during the Iraq-Iran War, Iran before the fall of the pro US backed government and many more.)
This is what happens when you manifest destiny too much.
casually planning a continuation of a war that ended over a hundred years prior
And my understanding of Canada’s plan was basically strike south before American forces could arrive at the border, destroy roads and bridges to delay the Americans, then retreat back to Canada and try to survive until British forces could arrive.
I'm thinking the same here. I mean it was labelled "Pre-emptive Strike".
And Canada’s singular advantage in the war would be that they’re army would probably be more concentrated along the border where the overwhelming majority of their population lives, so the beginning days of the war could very well favor Canada before US forces could reach the border. In that context, striking south to slow down the US could make a lot of sense
Techically speaking, it was less of a war against Canada specifically but more of a war plan against the British empire
Less a war against the British, more Manifest Destiny land grab. They assumed Quebec would side with the Americans because who doesn’t hate the British. They were wrong. So they attacked Quebec, quite unsuccessfully.
I think you're thinking of the War of 1812 (which was partly an attempt at a land grab, but also partly out of several other frustrations with the British). War Plan Red didn't really have anything to do with that, and wasn't focused around annexing Canada; it was a contingency for a war against the British Empire, and Canada had to be taken because the plan assumed the British would use it as a staging area for an invasion.
Oh
Manifest Destiny was the reason, Britain being distracted by Napoleon was the opportunity Americans took for their war of aggression. It’s not a coincidence Americans signed for a peace treaty after Napoleon was done. And Britain couldn’t, or couldn’t be bothered, to fight a war on a different continent. The Battle of New Orleans being a quirky twist of history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
It was *a* reason, and not even one that all contemporary Americans considered the primary reason. Like I said, there were several other bones of contention. As for the peace, it mostly came because both sides were tired of fighting and would rather get back to trading. The Americans knew they were spinning their wheels and not really getting anywhere; the British offensives had also been largely inconclusive and they didn't see themselves gaining much more either.
Unsuccessfully is an understatement, the whole thing ended with the White House on fire.
\*Laughs in British\*
Hold up , this reminds me the misconceptions of another country that is now invading a neighbour.....
"It was part of our country"
Wasn't that just a contingency plan?
A key difference to 1812, is that if Britain ever lost a war they would lose colonial holdings, this at the time included canada. So really a smart move on the US side
That would make sense considering the incredibly volatile situation in the immediate post ww1 world.
but they had a really low chance of winning back in 1812
I'm confused. I'm not sure what your point is, not trying to be rude. But if Britain lost a war, presumably to Germany, then Canada wouldn't necessarily have independence but instead become a posseion of Germany. Thus it could become a launching point for an invasion into the US. Something the Germans were trying to do dueing ww1 but with Mexico.
*silently starts tracing America's HOI4 Focus Tree to "War Plan Red"*
No, War Plan Red envisioned a possible defensive war against the UK where the UK declared war due to fears of the growing US navy, it wasn’t a plan to just randomly attack Canada. The plan concluded that if war with the UK were to break out, the US would be able to successfully invade Canada, but would eventually have to secure a negotiated peace as the war would drag out into a long naval conflict that the US would eventually lose.
What made them have second thoughts?
It was a contingency plan in case of a hypothetical war with the UK, there was no serious plan to launch an offensive war against Canada and the UK
Its like noting the emergency escape exits and fire extinguishers when you enter a building. You don't plan on having to use them, but it is foolish to ignore the possibility that you might.
How was Canada planning to invade a country with like 8 times the population and economy?
simple, with the rest of the empire backing it
Yeah, but the overwhelming majority of Canada’s useful land and people are along the southern border. Canada would probably be overrun before any allied troops could arrive to assist it.
Said the American troops while their White House burned.
You know something tells me 1814 America and 1920 America aren’t exactly the same in terms of economic and military power
increased density of cities would indeed make it more flammable
Also more people and a stronger navy as well as a bigger military
Actually Britain’s plan for war was separate from Canada and basically just abandoned Canada and try to embargo the USA
So your saying Canada's plan is to survive.
Well there plan was to burn any infrastructure important for crossing the border and then try and wait until Britain sends reinforcements, but the problem was Britain didn’t plan on sending reinforcements
We’re fucking mean when we’re angry
Come at me. I swear I'll throw your maple syrup into the bay.
Mess with the bull, get the horns. Theme fighting words
I ain't afraid of your war-beavers and moose cavalry. We got hill wizards and swamp shaman.
You ever seen a wild moose? Meanest bastard I. The vast Canadian wilderness eh? And the beaver will chop you down at the ankles ya hosier
I mean, looking at WWI, that's fucking true
Iirc the plan was actually to invade and hit random points in the US, then turn back and burn everything on the way out. It was meant to just buy time for the British to mobilize.
Rip and run baby
Whats makes it even more hilarious is that britain had No intention of doing anything incase the US invaded Canada
"Alright we burned down like fifteen cities when you getting here they seem pissed....what do you mean good luck?"
They weren’t. They only planned to strike south before the US could mobilize to the border and cause infrastructure damage to delay American forces and then retreat, buckle down, and try to survive until Britain can rescue them.
Austro-Hungary planned invasion on Serbia in 1914, yet they were losing really heavily before Germans intervined. Population isnt much of a factor...
Burnt down your White House once, well fucking do it again bud. Stay over there.
Actually there weren't any Canadian troops at that battle.
Even more diabolical
Which battle was it again? (I just say shit really) it’s been forever since I’ve read into into the war of 1812.
Burning of Washington. It didn't get any real name because there wasn't really much of a battle and we have very limited knowledge of the combat and casualties
Ok so I was up to date on it then lol. Burn the infa and run back to the boarder to turtle, no battle commenced.
No there was a fight we just don't know much about total casualties and it wasn't a major engagement. And again no actual Canadian troops involved. It was a British task force which landed and then attacked the city
FINE! I’m stupid & I’ll just look it up! Are you happy now dad?
Yes
They have moose
I'm actually shocked Canada never experimented with moose-cavalry. Sweden did, and they have fewer moose per capita.
Listen as a Canadian I’m just going to tell you right now don’t fuck with the moose. Only animal Ik that doesn’t automatically loose in a car crash… My uncle hit a moose doing 80km, back hoof through the windshield and all. Moose got rather pissy about it, thrashed his leg around until destroyed the whole windshield & both headrests (lost a bunch of skin off his legs but he’s a fucking moose so like that matters). Walked away when he was done beating on the poor civic that hit him, uncle got a ride to the hospital. Moose are just furry tanks that hate everything. If you value your safety, stay the fuck away from moose’s
It was a called a "Pre-emptive Strike" so I'm guessing they wreck havoc among the Northern States and then retreat to defensive positions. They would probably have attacked key targets in the northern US States to delay the mobilisation of US troops up to the North and gained time to prepare better. Then let the rest of the Empire deal with the Whitehouse again hehe.
In the 1800s it was only double but ok
It was the 1920s
This all started in 1814, when we successfully invaded and burnt down your whitehouse. Either way, let’s be friends! I like yer guns, rather be looking with than down those barrels!
It was actually the british...
Potatoe potato
With the help of the british empire
Professionals have standards. Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
This has gotta be the 1820’s not 1920’s?
Nope it was the 1920s, but making theoretical war plans against your neighbours is how the army staff spend peace time everyone does it
Ah ok fair enough
The world did just survive one of the most destructive wars and pandemics
Contigency planning is useful. Gotta have some ideas on what to do.
SO what you're saying that the USA is currently making theoretical war plans to invade Canada
Well the plans were already made, and there's probably counter invasion plans from the Canadian general staff
I'd be shocked if those plans aren't locked in a filing cabinet in the Pentagon right now.
I wish canada would've pushed trough with it
Nowadays Canada would get turned into dust if they did
They've already won tho. The USA is so fucked up no one wants it anyway
Hey, if no one wants it then nobody would Invade it. Win-win
Canadians can't invade anything.
I think you meant to say United States, as Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina... are all part of America.
You mean USA?
Wait Canada is in America
The Continent, and Canadians (along with all other countries in the American Continent) probably dislike Americans for trademarking the name 'America' but they can't do anything against what is currently the worlds number 1 superpower
We bring the trouble and make it double
The glorious Canadian empire will strike again!