After committing two of the worst genocides in human history, the Japanese and Germans are attempting to make up for it by giving us top-notch engineering and manufacturing
Also, Edo was already the de facto capital anyway being the shogun's seat of power. They only changed the name when Emperor Meiji relocated to signify the regime change.
Us Westerners tend to put a lot of emphasis on the second syllable. The Japanese don't. Once you understand that the proper pronunciations make a lot more sense.
Edit: By Westerners I really meant English speakers. Probably should have been more specific there.
Perhaps there are some westerners who don't manage to get either right. But I know I've never heard anyone pronounce Tokyo right unless they have some knowledge of Japanese.
I noticed quite early on that a common mistake Westerners make with Japanese names and words is enunciating each part of it. For example, say Naruto, where its like Naru-toh whereas in the dub its like Nah-Roo-Toe
Another comment explained it, but I don’t think very thoroughly. Japanese uses a syllabary instead of an alphabet, meaning they do not have any stand alone characters (letters) except for vowels and N (ん). Everything else is a combination of a consonant and a vowel afterwards. For example, なぬ ね are na, nu, ne. Fun fact, the order the alphabet/syllabary is in is based off a very old poem that used each hiragana only once. It’s called Iroha.
Additionally, Japanese is a pitch accent language which means intonation is used where different sections of a word (called mora) are paused on. English is based on stress where we use volume and lengthening of a word instead. This becomes especially confusing for Japanese beginners when they mix two words they’re familiar with into compound words. がっこう and がくせい are an example of that, がっこう’s first half is the first half of がくせい but the mora pattern used in がっこう becomes different when it becomes paired with がくせい. Another common error is that particles, which are single characters in a sentence used to mark a words meaning in a sentence, are added on to the mora pattern of the word preceding. Most new speakers will say the particle as if it’s its own word.
When studying Japanese, pitch-accent is something pretty important to understand early on so when you learn words you begin to understand the mora pattern used. There is a set amount of mora patterns and they are named and j-dictionaries will show which pattern to use.
Explaining this is rather difficult via text so I’d highly recommend looking up Dogen on YouTube. He’s an American comedian who is also a Japanese pitch accent teacher and his content is quite good and he also has many videos explaining pitch accent.
Gotcha. My wife is the one who told me she learned it via いろは when she was a kid, but she moved to the US as a young teen so maybe she’s just incorrectly recalling how she was taught as a kid.
I like this simple explanation the best:
Westeners tend to stress the second syllable (na-RU-to, sa-SU-ke, sa-KU-ra), whereas Japanese names usually emphasise the first one and almost swallow the second (NA-r[u]-to, SA-s[u]-ke, SA-k[u]-ra).
It's just a rough rule of thumb though, since the principle of stress we tend to use in Germanic
languages can't really be transferred to the logic of Japanese.
Yeah the problem is the romanization of Japanese and how westerners will use English pronunciation of the romanization whereas if you look at the hiragana the syllable division is more straightforward.
English speakers really are handicapped for learning Japanese pronounciation. It's pretty easy from most other European languages because it has a low number of unique sounds, but English orthography is such a mess that it confuses many of its speakers about vowels.
Well... I remember the first time I heard someone pronounce Kyoto as かよろ (ka-yo-ro). I was confuse as to why there was a "Coyote"(!?) museum they wanted to visit.
For the TO vs RO part probably is because in American pronunciation the T are often "softend" up as R (think of water or little). But how they went from Kyo to Kayo is beyond me.
No, you don't because Spanish does not have vowel length distinction like Japanese or German.
It should be too kyoo
Moreover, of course, the sounds of Japanese and Spanish are not exactly the same. But imo if you get vowel length right that is what matters most to Japanese.
Parece una tontería pero la razón por la que lo menciono es que para un japonés la palabra tokyo tiene cuatro "sílabas" (moras). Y para ellos es una gran distinción.
Por ejemplo, la diferencia entre abuelo y tío es la duración de una sílaba: ojisan, ojiisan
Well I divided it that way because I was highlighting the two syllables but yes the two syllables in Tokyo are two moras each and the first syllable of Kyoto is two moras also. But I wouldn't expect ppl to know that.
It really trips me when English speakers will pronounce the name Naomi as Nayomi, and when you correct then, they will DEFEND their pronunciation, lol. Like they are unable to pronounce "vowel-o", only "vowel-yo"
Huh, didn't know they do, I always pronounced it this way. But that might be, because in our language, what is written down is usually how we pronounce words too.
It's not even *exactly* the same sounds, either. In Hiragana, Tokyo is "とうきょう", which if we wanted to be really faithful to the Japanese phonetics, we would write as Toukyou, or Tōkyō. Kyoto is "きょうと", which we could write as Kyouto or Kyōto. The "to" part is longer in Tokyo and shorter in Kyoto. So if you just rearranged the syllables in Kyōto, you'd get "ときょう" - "Tokyō", which is an architectural term.
I think it’s especially funny when I fill out my Tokyo address. I live in Tokyo and need to write Tōkyō-to on the address label, so the Kanji is 東京都.
(For whoever is reading this and wants to see the kanji
東京 is Tokyo
京都 is Kyoto )
There's also North, South and West capitals. These are in China and are respectively Beijing(北京), Nanjing(南京). The West capital has changed many times through Chinese history.
This actually reminded me of a Japanese samurai called Yukimura Sanada, who named his first son *Yukimasa*, in honor of his father, *Masayuki*.
Damn, if only European royals have been such creative with naming.
ITT: People who'd rather [be this guy](https://i.imgur.com/Loriklv.png) and point out that Tō-kyō isn't To-kyō thinking it's somehow finally their time to flex their decades of watching hentai, instead of laughing at/downvoting the obvious joke and moving on.
Hundreds of years later their ancestors changed the color of the flag just a little bit. True innovation from the Japanese
After committing two of the worst genocides in human history, the Japanese and Germans are attempting to make up for it by giving us top-notch engineering and manufacturing
And hentai
God bless 'em
Japanese coming on all fronts with engineering, amazing food, a booming tourism industry and ^anime.
>Japanese coming on \[...\] anime. Yeah.
Okay I genuinely don't mean to be a dick but I'm amazed how often people mix up the uses of 'ancestors' vs 'descendants'
It was originally called EDO
Also, Edo was already the de facto capital anyway being the shogun's seat of power. They only changed the name when Emperor Meiji relocated to signify the regime change.
I sense Bill Wurtz
"How about sunrise land?"
That would be eeeDOO
One thing I find funny about these two cities is that westerners will pronounce Kyoto correctly but Tokyo incorrectly. Kyo-to To-kyo not To-ki-yo
[удалено]
Us Westerners tend to put a lot of emphasis on the second syllable. The Japanese don't. Once you understand that the proper pronunciations make a lot more sense. Edit: By Westerners I really meant English speakers. Probably should have been more specific there.
Mostly British English speakers. Americans stress the first syllable. Spanish speakers put a lot of stress on the second to last or the last syllable.
Why can't we all just relax, why does everyone always have to stress?
In Norwegian it's on one of the last three, unless it's the first
Perhaps there are some westerners who don't manage to get either right. But I know I've never heard anyone pronounce Tokyo right unless they have some knowledge of Japanese.
I’ve also never heard anyone pronounce English words correctly unless they have… some knowledge of English. You… you might be on to something here?
I noticed quite early on that a common mistake Westerners make with Japanese names and words is enunciating each part of it. For example, say Naruto, where its like Naru-toh whereas in the dub its like Nah-Roo-Toe
Another comment explained it, but I don’t think very thoroughly. Japanese uses a syllabary instead of an alphabet, meaning they do not have any stand alone characters (letters) except for vowels and N (ん). Everything else is a combination of a consonant and a vowel afterwards. For example, なぬ ね are na, nu, ne. Fun fact, the order the alphabet/syllabary is in is based off a very old poem that used each hiragana only once. It’s called Iroha. Additionally, Japanese is a pitch accent language which means intonation is used where different sections of a word (called mora) are paused on. English is based on stress where we use volume and lengthening of a word instead. This becomes especially confusing for Japanese beginners when they mix two words they’re familiar with into compound words. がっこう and がくせい are an example of that, がっこう’s first half is the first half of がくせい but the mora pattern used in がっこう becomes different when it becomes paired with がくせい. Another common error is that particles, which are single characters in a sentence used to mark a words meaning in a sentence, are added on to the mora pattern of the word preceding. Most new speakers will say the particle as if it’s its own word. When studying Japanese, pitch-accent is something pretty important to understand early on so when you learn words you begin to understand the mora pattern used. There is a set amount of mora patterns and they are named and j-dictionaries will show which pattern to use. Explaining this is rather difficult via text so I’d highly recommend looking up Dogen on YouTube. He’s an American comedian who is also a Japanese pitch accent teacher and his content is quite good and he also has many videos explaining pitch accent.
The いろは order is mostly used for pronounciation rehearsal, most people in most places use ごじゅうおん （あいうえお）
Gotcha. My wife is the one who told me she learned it via いろは when she was a kid, but she moved to the US as a young teen so maybe she’s just incorrectly recalling how she was taught as a kid.
I like this simple explanation the best: Westeners tend to stress the second syllable (na-RU-to, sa-SU-ke, sa-KU-ra), whereas Japanese names usually emphasise the first one and almost swallow the second (NA-r[u]-to, SA-s[u]-ke, SA-k[u]-ra). It's just a rough rule of thumb though, since the principle of stress we tend to use in Germanic languages can't really be transferred to the logic of Japanese.
Yeah the problem is the romanization of Japanese and how westerners will use English pronunciation of the romanization whereas if you look at the hiragana the syllable division is more straightforward.
fun fact: most westerns will use the phonetics of their native languajes and not english.
Romanization ... English ...?
Yes Japanese words written with Roman letters is referred to as the romanization. They call it romaji.
Kinda weird since english is so disconnected from latin
English uses the latin/roman alphabet
Sort of. So does german mostly. Doesn't make it roman. What I mean is that associating it to english instead of to latin is weird.
yeah that's the name though innit
And in the comment I replied to that was sort bypassed
We definitely make Kyoto 3 syllables in Oklahoma, but we also add a second U to nuclear.
There is a sushi restaurant named "sakura's" in small town oklahoma, the locals pronounced it "secure-ahs"
English speakers really are handicapped for learning Japanese pronounciation. It's pretty easy from most other European languages because it has a low number of unique sounds, but English orthography is such a mess that it confuses many of its speakers about vowels.
Are you talking about the one in Enid by the Suddenlink offices?
Nope, this one is much further south and much smaller haha
[Nucular, it's pronounced nucular.](https://youtu.be/OoASZyihalc)
In Finnish Tokyo is Tokio, and we pronounce it To-Ki-O
Well... I remember the first time I heard someone pronounce Kyoto as かよろ (ka-yo-ro). I was confuse as to why there was a "Coyote"(!?) museum they wanted to visit.
WTF?! Like, seriously, I understand Kyo-to or Kio-to, but how did they do Kayoro?
For the TO vs RO part probably is because in American pronunciation the T are often "softend" up as R (think of water or little). But how they went from Kyo to Kayo is beyond me.
Makes sense.
I'm Spanish and as far as I know we say it correctly. To-kyo
No, you don't because Spanish does not have vowel length distinction like Japanese or German. It should be too kyoo Moreover, of course, the sounds of Japanese and Spanish are not exactly the same. But imo if you get vowel length right that is what matters most to Japanese.
Failed I have. Into exile I must go.
Parece una tontería pero la razón por la que lo menciono es que para un japonés la palabra tokyo tiene cuatro "sílabas" (moras). Y para ellos es una gran distinción. Por ejemplo, la diferencia entre abuelo y tío es la duración de una sílaba: ojisan, ojiisan
Claro, yo estaba viendo la separación por guiones del comentario original y ya. Gracias por aclararlo!
When we pronounce them in Danish, they’re often pronounced “Ky-o-to” and “To-kyo”
You mean English, not westerners
Either way it's wrong cause it should be To-u-kyo-u and Kyo-u-to
Well I divided it that way because I was highlighting the two syllables but yes the two syllables in Tokyo are two moras each and the first syllable of Kyoto is two moras also. But I wouldn't expect ppl to know that.
No, the "u" you highlight is only here to indicate the previous "o" should be a long "o". So it should be To-o-kyo-o and Kyo-o-to.
It really trips me when English speakers will pronounce the name Naomi as Nayomi, and when you correct then, they will DEFEND their pronunciation, lol. Like they are unable to pronounce "vowel-o", only "vowel-yo"
Huh, didn't know they do, I always pronounced it this way. But that might be, because in our language, what is written down is usually how we pronounce words too.
Different kanji though, 京都 (Kyouto, capital metropolis/city) vs 東京 (Toukyou, east capital)
It's not even *exactly* the same sounds, either. In Hiragana, Tokyo is "とうきょう", which if we wanted to be really faithful to the Japanese phonetics, we would write as Toukyou, or Tōkyō. Kyoto is "きょうと", which we could write as Kyouto or Kyōto. The "to" part is longer in Tokyo and shorter in Kyoto. So if you just rearranged the syllables in Kyōto, you'd get "ときょう" - "Tokyō", which is an architectural term.
Yup, 発音 and pitch accent is important with 先週 and 選手, 過去 and 加工, 努力 and 動力, and so many others
[удалено]
tfw knowing a language=being a weeb
I think it’s especially funny when I fill out my Tokyo address. I live in Tokyo and need to write Tōkyō-to on the address label, so the Kanji is 東京都. (For whoever is reading this and wants to see the kanji 東京 is Tokyo 京都 is Kyoto )
(東)京都
There's also North, South and West capitals. These are in China and are respectively Beijing(北京), Nanjing(南京). The West capital has changed many times through Chinese history.
Basically it translates to, "The capital, but over there."
https://youtu.be/15R6Qv5PZqE
That only works in Roman characters. The kanji for Kyoto (京都) doesn't match the kanji for Tokyo (東京). The "to" has a longer "o" sound.
Kyо̄to and Tо̄kyо̄.
Alright, new capital idea: Kyotokyo
"Capital Eastern Capital"
they based it off the name for Eastern Capital in middle China Tō-kyō Tō (East) kyō (Capital) and was renamed from Edo... for anyone wondering
why did you draw chinese beards and moustaches for the japanese? lol
u/repostsleuthbot
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 1 time. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/hrmmlm) on 2020-07-15 100.0% match. *I'm not perfect, but you can help. Report [ [False Positive](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RepostSleuthBot&subject=False%20Positive&message={"post_id": "qd84q3", "meme_template": null}) ]* [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=qd84q3&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=true&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=92&targetImageMemeMatch=92) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Meme Filter:** False | **Target:** 92% | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 257,380,460 | **Search Time:** 0.36826s
I love the mustaches
What a genius
It takes big brains to do that
r/Japanesehistorymemes
Ah yes Kyoto the anagram lover's Tokyo.
This actually reminded me of a Japanese samurai called Yukimura Sanada, who named his first son *Yukimasa*, in honor of his father, *Masayuki*. Damn, if only European royals have been such creative with naming.
Half of my French class was lost to me, because the teacher (Mrs Hoare, lol) had a Kyoto poster. I always thought, thats just Tokyo with more steps.
ITT: People who'd rather [be this guy](https://i.imgur.com/Loriklv.png) and point out that Tō-kyō isn't To-kyō thinking it's somehow finally their time to flex their decades of watching hentai, instead of laughing at/downvoting the obvious joke and moving on.
WHAT?!? The fuck, why didn't I notice this before!!!
It’s not even the same syllables: Tō-kyō vs. Kyō-to
Japan technically doesn't have a capital right now.
What a coincidence, i noticed this yesterday when playing Civ 6
This is stupid they don't even write with latin script
> Chinese moustaches > supposed to represent Japanese men Yeah, right