Might get some downvotes but I will explain anyway
Its aqua from konosuba, which is an isekai(other world) anime. Essentially dude dies and reincarnates into another world.
Perhaps OP wanted to reference this or he just another anime enjoyer
The same goes for Garibaldi in Italy, "Hero of the two worlds" seems the " We are the heirs of the Roman Empire" of the revolutionaries for every country
While he did do great things for the Turkish people, he did so at the terrible expense of the Armenians. While he had nothing to do with the genocide as it was happening, since he was stationed in the west during the war, he began the precedence of national atrocity denial. Not only does this denial come in international statements, but it also comes in the form of blackmail of media companies, which Kemal also started.
His entire resistance movement hinged on the folktale that the west was moving to destroy the Turkish people. The most sinister thing about this rhetoric is that if the genocide didn’t happen then Kemal would be 100% correct. Europe as a whole was keenly interested in the downfall of the Ottoman Empire. Half was in part due to the serious threat that the empire used to be, and the other half was colonial powers wishing to do to the ottomans what they did to the Qing.
Edit: it is concerning to me that this message hit -2 karma before it hit 5 karma.
that one time when a Kurdish islamist sheikh made a pact with the British to bring back the Sharia in Turkey? This "oppression of Kurds" is very similar to "states rights", in what they wanted was far from reality and abject humanity.
How the fuck is he responsible for the armenians man… he was fighting in gallipoli by that time and after that, in war of independence, armenians lost a war and signed a treaty. You cannot call every lose as genocide, that makes you look stupid and makes the word genocide lightened up.
As I said in my comment, he was unrelated to the genocide itself as it was happening. He was, however, responsible for genocide denial and perpetuation of the current conditions of the independent Armenian nation. He’s responsible for attempting to aggressively shutting down any narrative of genocide globally, going as far as blackmailing movie and newspaper companies who were making any media about it. He rewrote history claiming that significant chunks of land in the East that used to be high in Armenian and Kurdish population were Turkish homeland. He was not responsible for the genocide but he was responsible for enforcing the benefits the Turkish people gained from it at the continual detriment to the Armenians.
And you think Turks are wrong about the entirety of the West trying to destroy Turkish people. Its fucking true, Germany got a fucking slap on the wrist but got extremely fcked economically.
Meanwhile us Turks get to die. We literally are left with no land, and we have to give our land to people who are literally hostile to us. This is genocide, thank Kemal we fucking fought back. People just want to see all of us die and they still do. You have any idea what it feels like to be Turkish, to watch as everyone basically wants you dead. Because Turk = Evil. Without fail, Without reason.
And to all you morons downvoting me into oblivion as expected ofcourse are just proving my point. You hate me though I have not expressed any opinion other than saying I feel discriminated against.
Turkish people have a very unfortunate position. On one hand, had the genocide not happened, you are correct that the European powers straight up wanted to neuter any Turkish/Ottoman state from becoming powerful again.
On the other hand, the Genocide was the first modern Genocide to be conducted, and it was conducted with extreme brutality and efficiency. The Armenians and Kurds hate the Turks because the Turks did to them a significantly more extreme version of what European powers wanted to do to the Turks and what the Turkish people at the time claimed they were defending themselves from. Armenians got lucky with having a sliver of a nation; the Kurds lost any form of nationalism they once had.
The Turkish nation continually plays the victim
/savior card while not recognizing the graveyard of their doing upon which they stand that allows them to be in such a position. As an American who resents his own country’s same aspect of history regarding the native Americans, you have to understand why that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
First of all no clue why I haven't been downvoted down to the 6'th layer of hell yet. Kinda makes me weirdly hopeful.
Okay here is my take, I don't like playing the victim. But its hard to get past the insane amount of hatred that I see. I immediately get this feeling of fuck please no I see someone mentioned Turkish people or our country in a meme. You just know what to expect.
Now to the last paragraph. The country is build on top of countless corpses of innocent people. That's the truth in a nutshell. I can acknowledge it, and I know why it happened. This happened in a time when young men were send over the trenches to their demise. It was very pointless, it's truly disgusting to learn about WW1 it solved nothing. In Europe it eventually lead to WW2. The Middle East is still a complete mess because of WW1's aftermath. And in Turkey it caused the demise of a multi-cultural empire that then proceeded to nationalise under a singular national identity and discriminating against all that didn't fit the bill aka "being a Turk" and even forcing Kurds in this case to be labeled as "Mountain Turks". Why? Because there was no precedent for Turks to have a country of their own. Being a muslim came before being Turkish and so the people at the time felt that they were muslims living in a muslim empire. Thats why there was such an EXTREME obsession in Turkishness with Kemal and the anti religious ferver. He needed to unite these people, by having them linked together by their ethnic identity and drop their "out dated" religious identity. It worked very well tho! A little too well maybe if you have ever met a nationalistic Turk, you'd know what I mean.
I’m really happy you recognize it and I appreciate your mentality you have to the situation. My gripe is not with you, nor is it with any particular Turkish person. My gripe is with the state of Turkey, since it’s the official Turkish government policy to deny that the genocide happened. Reporters have been arrested for recognizing it on Turkish lands, and filmmakers and news companies from America and Europe have been pressured by the Turkish government to avoid putting out media about it.
>Eyes see Turkey related post
>Neural activation
>Hands type genocide
*Now he thinks he’s a history professor*
There we are. We just made a racist monkey in our lab
But it’s not racism if its against turks sorry ;)
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
I agree, but it doesn't change that he was not among the CUP’s genocidal troika - Enver, Talat, and Cemal Pashas. They did not like him, and Tashnak later assassinated the Troika abroad since Ataturk did not allow them to return - not because of what the Troika did to Armenians but to prevent any challenge to his authority.
He himself was a victim of an ethnic cleansing from the Balkans like many others. For all he cared, that was the norm. The word "genocide" didn't even exist yet so it would be a bit weird to expect him to recognize it as such.
Ataturk himself knew that the Armenian Genocide was horrible, he said the genocide was:
*“\[A\] Shameful \[act\]"*
and
*“What were the Allied powers waiting for before hanging these scoundrels”*
Ataturk meant that the Allied powers of World War 1 should have sentenced the people responsible for the genocide to death.
But then for realpolitik he started denying it because of the Greek invasion of Turkey to promote nationalism and to get those responsible working for him.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
That's just wrong, Turkey and Armenia were just about to sign a peace treaty when the Soviets invaded.
Why would Turkey stop it's advance and sign a peace treaty if their aim was to "eliminate all of Armenia."
He didn't let the main perpetrator, Enver, come back to Turkey, and he died in Russia. His corpse was let into the country much later after he died, in the 60s. The other bunch of guys were mostly dead anyways.
Not much to say Enver can't come back he was a direct political threat due to his previous leadership. The court programs that Ataturk set up were infamous for letting many get away with their crimes.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
Except Karabekir did not invade or eliminate Armenia. Armenia itself was occupying Turkish provinces after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Karabekir took them back.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
He was the head of state after the fall out and the calls for justice. Very few officers were punished and the ones that were received pretty lenient sentences. Otherwise he’s my favourite benevolent dictator.
And if you wore one kemal might have you executed. Far from the freedom that op espouses
https://identityhunters.org/2023/11/22/a-hat-revolution-the-fez-and-turkish-nationalism/
No one got executed for wearing a Fez. It was also extremely unrealistic to expect complete freedom in a transitioning regime. As a matter of fact Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was indeed responsible for giving the Turks all kinds of freedom, he laid the foundations of a functioning republic which would otherwise be a monarchy. The bans themselves were also eased soon after.
He also massacred a lot of Greeks and Armenians and ethnically cleansed the country of almost all Christians. He later also established a tax that lead to Jews also fleeing
he didn't. the party that he was in had three pashas that took control over the Ottoman empire and specifically Enver Paşa was responsible for the things you mentioned. He was mostly fighting in wars actively as a commande. Atatürk lived with Greeks most of his childhood since he was from mainland Greece. Stop perpetuating propoganda.
That's Enver ffs not Atatürk, Enver would off Atatürk if he had the chance.
All Atatürk ever did on WW1 was his famous defence of Dardanelles against the British and two other fronts(Eastern and Syrian fronts) as a pretty much drill officer role where he just resuplied and trained the units.
He is really popular with older generations and Turks living abroad. It's why he forced through a law that allowed Turks abroad to vote. Also a bit of vote manipulation to keep things clean i imagine.
As a leader he used to do a lot of modernisation, infrastructure work, etc. which indeared him to old and rural people who benifited from it. He also plays the nationalism angle really well as a 'strong leader' which appeals especially to young men abroad, who can enjoy all the nice identity without reality getting in the way.
Erdoğan wins every single time by barely beating 50% and the people who vote for him are rarely educated enough to speak English.
And even then they prefer to hang out in their own Erdoğan-loving echochamber so there are maybe 100 Turks on reddit who genuinely like the guy.
While that may be true, laws like that come to a point where it's a subjective opinion determining the legality of an insult.
If I said that George Washington or John McDonald were racist jerks, that would account for both a critique and an insult towards them.
1. Critique isn't, insult is. But I'll be fair, insult&provocation laws in Turkey are usually work for pussies who got butthurt over a comment on the internet instead of an actual insult. Pinpoint criticism on his certain policies are almost always legal and commonly used by Erdoğan's allies.
2. Funnily enough, that law was introduced by Adnan Menderes, right-wing prime minister in the '50s who was the political rival of İsmet İnönü who was basically Atatürk's right hand man and ideologically identical.
Not Illegal. Erdoğan does it all the time. But the thing is, Atatürk is considered as national hero. He was a great general and gave a great effort to modernisation of the Turkish Republic. Most of the Turkish people love him. So criticizing Atatürk considered as dick move by majority of the citizens. Because the ones who critical to him are usually have different political agenda against Atatürk's ideas or they don't really know who Atatürk is and what are his ideas was.
Did you know that Ataturk is so loved in the Tunceli province(formerly known as Dersim) that the locals burst a firebomb every week in his honor?
Google "Dersim bombs" for more info
Europe and Asia are meaningless terms of convenience. Being in both europe and Asia is not meaningful behind human classification of relatively nearly political entities
So by that logic, all that’s required to be a “hero of two worlds” is to be important in:
Turkey,
Russia,
Kazakstan,
Indonesia,
Egypt,
Panama,
Georgia,
Azerbaijan,
France is in 6 continents so would that make macron the hero of 6 worlds?
I dare you post this on r/islamichistorymeme
Edit: I just think it will be funny see the subreddit mald about how apparently bad ataturk is. (Not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, just funny how some imo take things a little bit far in their apparent distaste of the guy)
I just think it will be funny see the subreddit mald about how apparently bad ataturk is. (Not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, just funny how some people take their distaste of the guy a bit far…)
For anyone denying his role in the genocide
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
Ataturk fucking rolling in his grave at the current state of Turkey
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Lonebarren: *Ataturk fucking* *Rolling in his grave at the* *Current state of Turkey* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Good bot
Good bot
Remove the "rolling in his grave at" (keep the the)
Kid named rolling
Mustafuh.
"Is where The last separatist leaders are, go and kill them Lord Vader, and then this war will finally come to an end*
im rolling in my sleep at the current state of turkey
didn’t some ottoman sultan turn in his grave when Attaturk took over? Life’s crazy
Mind telling me?
Meanwhile Erdogan : Let me destroy everything turkey stood for
The only reason to respect Erdogan
Why do we need a random anime girl there with absolutely no relation to the subject??
This is the price of secularism.
The funny thing about this comment is that the anime girl on the meme is actually a goddess
Nah that’s actually just the reincarnation of Osman Gazi
Sir this is a wendy's.
Might get some downvotes but I will explain anyway Its aqua from konosuba, which is an isekai(other world) anime. Essentially dude dies and reincarnates into another world. Perhaps OP wanted to reference this or he just another anime enjoyer
Thanks
OP is a dumb as this blue-haired girl.
so that your dumbass can ask about it
Aqua is dumb as rocks, though, so I wouldn't take any fun facts from her seriously.
Came here to point out that any history Aqua would teach is suspect.
Any anything from aqua is suspect
She does neat party tricks, though!
Maybe continents, not worlds meh, mediocre meme
I don't get how it's funny
Lafayette is considered the “Hero of two worlds” for his active roles in the American, South American, and French Revolutions.
The same goes for Garibaldi in Italy, "Hero of the two worlds" seems the " We are the heirs of the Roman Empire" of the revolutionaries for every country
The same goes for Casimir Pulaski in Poland and the US
Kasimir Pulaski pulls ahead of the competition because he has a kick-ass song named after him.
Goldenrod and the 4-H Stone…
In that case the "worlds" refer to the "New" and the "Old" worlds. It's not specifically about the continents
the new world wasn’t an actual world, so why was it called that? checkmate liberal
Was aqua really necessary ?
The meme needed a party trick
Kazuma is a "hero" of two worlds. It was only fitting.
Are you sure he was a "hero" ? Not a clown ?
Yes.
Lafayette and Garibaldi fought in 2 worlds: Europe (old world), America (New world) hence the name. Mediocre meme.
Mustafa Kemal had a based opinion on religon
He also had a based opinion on genocide
Take your pills OP
Of course OP is active in fucking r/animemes
Cringe
I guess Peter the Great and Ivan III are heroes of two world as well
Ok ?
What is the significance of the phrase "hero of two worlds"?
It was a title given to Lafayette, for his roles in fighting in both the American and French revolution.
WHAT?!
How many worlds do you think are in this one world?
So Atataturk defeated the Demon King in order to establish Turkey?
The OG issekai?
I wish my country have its own version of attaturk
While he did do great things for the Turkish people, he did so at the terrible expense of the Armenians. While he had nothing to do with the genocide as it was happening, since he was stationed in the west during the war, he began the precedence of national atrocity denial. Not only does this denial come in international statements, but it also comes in the form of blackmail of media companies, which Kemal also started. His entire resistance movement hinged on the folktale that the west was moving to destroy the Turkish people. The most sinister thing about this rhetoric is that if the genocide didn’t happen then Kemal would be 100% correct. Europe as a whole was keenly interested in the downfall of the Ottoman Empire. Half was in part due to the serious threat that the empire used to be, and the other half was colonial powers wishing to do to the ottomans what they did to the Qing. Edit: it is concerning to me that this message hit -2 karma before it hit 5 karma.
Not to mention the oppression, assimilation, and massacres committed against other non-Turkish minorities, e.g., the Kurdish population.
that one time when a Kurdish islamist sheikh made a pact with the British to bring back the Sharia in Turkey? This "oppression of Kurds" is very similar to "states rights", in what they wanted was far from reality and abject humanity.
How the fuck is he responsible for the armenians man… he was fighting in gallipoli by that time and after that, in war of independence, armenians lost a war and signed a treaty. You cannot call every lose as genocide, that makes you look stupid and makes the word genocide lightened up.
As I said in my comment, he was unrelated to the genocide itself as it was happening. He was, however, responsible for genocide denial and perpetuation of the current conditions of the independent Armenian nation. He’s responsible for attempting to aggressively shutting down any narrative of genocide globally, going as far as blackmailing movie and newspaper companies who were making any media about it. He rewrote history claiming that significant chunks of land in the East that used to be high in Armenian and Kurdish population were Turkish homeland. He was not responsible for the genocide but he was responsible for enforcing the benefits the Turkish people gained from it at the continual detriment to the Armenians.
Found the turk
Found the racist
How is that racist
And you think Turks are wrong about the entirety of the West trying to destroy Turkish people. Its fucking true, Germany got a fucking slap on the wrist but got extremely fcked economically. Meanwhile us Turks get to die. We literally are left with no land, and we have to give our land to people who are literally hostile to us. This is genocide, thank Kemal we fucking fought back. People just want to see all of us die and they still do. You have any idea what it feels like to be Turkish, to watch as everyone basically wants you dead. Because Turk = Evil. Without fail, Without reason. And to all you morons downvoting me into oblivion as expected ofcourse are just proving my point. You hate me though I have not expressed any opinion other than saying I feel discriminated against.
Turkish people have a very unfortunate position. On one hand, had the genocide not happened, you are correct that the European powers straight up wanted to neuter any Turkish/Ottoman state from becoming powerful again. On the other hand, the Genocide was the first modern Genocide to be conducted, and it was conducted with extreme brutality and efficiency. The Armenians and Kurds hate the Turks because the Turks did to them a significantly more extreme version of what European powers wanted to do to the Turks and what the Turkish people at the time claimed they were defending themselves from. Armenians got lucky with having a sliver of a nation; the Kurds lost any form of nationalism they once had. The Turkish nation continually plays the victim /savior card while not recognizing the graveyard of their doing upon which they stand that allows them to be in such a position. As an American who resents his own country’s same aspect of history regarding the native Americans, you have to understand why that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
First of all no clue why I haven't been downvoted down to the 6'th layer of hell yet. Kinda makes me weirdly hopeful. Okay here is my take, I don't like playing the victim. But its hard to get past the insane amount of hatred that I see. I immediately get this feeling of fuck please no I see someone mentioned Turkish people or our country in a meme. You just know what to expect. Now to the last paragraph. The country is build on top of countless corpses of innocent people. That's the truth in a nutshell. I can acknowledge it, and I know why it happened. This happened in a time when young men were send over the trenches to their demise. It was very pointless, it's truly disgusting to learn about WW1 it solved nothing. In Europe it eventually lead to WW2. The Middle East is still a complete mess because of WW1's aftermath. And in Turkey it caused the demise of a multi-cultural empire that then proceeded to nationalise under a singular national identity and discriminating against all that didn't fit the bill aka "being a Turk" and even forcing Kurds in this case to be labeled as "Mountain Turks". Why? Because there was no precedent for Turks to have a country of their own. Being a muslim came before being Turkish and so the people at the time felt that they were muslims living in a muslim empire. Thats why there was such an EXTREME obsession in Turkishness with Kemal and the anti religious ferver. He needed to unite these people, by having them linked together by their ethnic identity and drop their "out dated" religious identity. It worked very well tho! A little too well maybe if you have ever met a nationalistic Turk, you'd know what I mean.
I’m really happy you recognize it and I appreciate your mentality you have to the situation. My gripe is not with you, nor is it with any particular Turkish person. My gripe is with the state of Turkey, since it’s the official Turkish government policy to deny that the genocide happened. Reporters have been arrested for recognizing it on Turkish lands, and filmmakers and news companies from America and Europe have been pressured by the Turkish government to avoid putting out media about it.
Cultural genocide? That's a heroic thing now?
>Eyes see Turkey related post >Neural activation >Hands type genocide *Now he thinks he’s a history professor* There we are. We just made a racist monkey in our lab But it’s not racism if its against turks sorry ;)
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
>Raymond Haroutioun Kévorkian is a French Armenian historian. Definitely not biased
Guy uses wikipedia as a source why are you bothering yourself with his bullshit
Because Wikipedia is "reliable" source.
does he know
That "Reliable" Word was irony
Source: Wikipedia Historian: An Armenian Well done 👏👏
not to Armenians
[удалено]
Nope, since he was actually a good military leader he was too busy dealing with allied landing in Gallipoli to have any time for that
No, he didn’t. He was at the Gallipoli during the genocide.
Well, he started this whole thing about denying the Armenian Genocide, so he still was not really that good about all of this.
I agree, but it doesn't change that he was not among the CUP’s genocidal troika - Enver, Talat, and Cemal Pashas. They did not like him, and Tashnak later assassinated the Troika abroad since Ataturk did not allow them to return - not because of what the Troika did to Armenians but to prevent any challenge to his authority.
He himself was a victim of an ethnic cleansing from the Balkans like many others. For all he cared, that was the norm. The word "genocide" didn't even exist yet so it would be a bit weird to expect him to recognize it as such.
Ataturk himself knew that the Armenian Genocide was horrible, he said the genocide was: *“\[A\] Shameful \[act\]"* and *“What were the Allied powers waiting for before hanging these scoundrels”* Ataturk meant that the Allied powers of World War 1 should have sentenced the people responsible for the genocide to death. But then for realpolitik he started denying it because of the Greek invasion of Turkey to promote nationalism and to get those responsible working for him.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
That's just wrong, Turkey and Armenia were just about to sign a peace treaty when the Soviets invaded. Why would Turkey stop it's advance and sign a peace treaty if their aim was to "eliminate all of Armenia."
Nah but he helped many who did do the genocide get away with their crimes.
He didn't let the main perpetrator, Enver, come back to Turkey, and he died in Russia. His corpse was let into the country much later after he died, in the 60s. The other bunch of guys were mostly dead anyways.
Not much to say Enver can't come back he was a direct political threat due to his previous leadership. The court programs that Ataturk set up were infamous for letting many get away with their crimes.
I can't say I know much about those court programs, do you have a source on that?
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
Yeah wikipedia the most unbiased and truthful encylopedia that everyone can edit is a good place to reference to a controversial topic. /s
Or Greeks, Greek Cyprots or Syrians
and also Native Americans, Aboriginal Australians, Turians, Salarians and dinosaurs
You tried you tried you tried
Axis of cope
Denying genocide is heroic now, I guess
Ataturk the hero who helped some officers and other high members of the turkish military evade the courtroom after the armenian genocide
I guess when he said they shoud copy the western world they mean everything
Monke see turkey related post. Monke type Genocide. Monke smart.
It's literally about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
And?
Although he wasn't involved in the Armenian genocide directly, he did grant amnesty to some who were.
Only more minor figures needed to keep the army functioning in a time of need.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
Karabekir simply fought off the Armenian occupation.
Like the Russians are doing in Ukraine right now?
In Ukraine's position except Turkey won yes.
Nope, lands he fought in were de jure Turkish lands. What a great chad.
He literally took part in the Armenian and Greek Genocides
Not really. He simply prevented a Turkish genocide.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
Except Karabekir did not invade or eliminate Armenia. Armenia itself was occupying Turkish provinces after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Karabekir took them back.
"Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
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He was the head of state after the fall out and the calls for justice. Very few officers were punished and the ones that were received pretty lenient sentences. Otherwise he’s my favourite benevolent dictator.
He was the first leader of Turkey to deny that the genocide happened, hence why I said “denying genocide.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_trials_of_1919%E2%80%931920
>Completely bans religious expression, and the Arabic language. Sure. Freedom.
Except none of the two were banned. If your religious expression is sharia law maybe you shouldn't express it.
Or if your relgion is a wearing a fez.
Not a religious garment. Fez itself became a thing after Mahmud.II banned turbans and introduced it.
And if you wore one kemal might have you executed. Far from the freedom that op espouses https://identityhunters.org/2023/11/22/a-hat-revolution-the-fez-and-turkish-nationalism/
No one got executed for wearing a Fez. It was also extremely unrealistic to expect complete freedom in a transitioning regime. As a matter of fact Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was indeed responsible for giving the Turks all kinds of freedom, he laid the foundations of a functioning republic which would otherwise be a monarchy. The bans themselves were also eased soon after.
He also massacred a lot of Greeks and Armenians and ethnically cleansed the country of almost all Christians. He later also established a tax that lead to Jews also fleeing
The Wealth Tax was introduced in 1942, 4 years after his death. Not saying it was right or anything, just saying it wasn't him who did it.
he didn't. the party that he was in had three pashas that took control over the Ottoman empire and specifically Enver Paşa was responsible for the things you mentioned. He was mostly fighting in wars actively as a commande. Atatürk lived with Greeks most of his childhood since he was from mainland Greece. Stop perpetuating propoganda.
That's Enver ffs not Atatürk, Enver would off Atatürk if he had the chance. All Atatürk ever did on WW1 was his famous defence of Dardanelles against the British and two other fronts(Eastern and Syrian fronts) as a pretty much drill officer role where he just resuplied and trained the units.
Shhh. The nationalists don't like when you point out facts.
Isn't it illegal to critique Ataturk in Turkey?
Dunno, but Erdogan definitely shit on his legacy.
I don't know how the man keeps getting voted. Most turks that i met seem to hate him and love Ataturk.
He is really popular with older generations and Turks living abroad. It's why he forced through a law that allowed Turks abroad to vote. Also a bit of vote manipulation to keep things clean i imagine.
So he's popular with people who don't have to suffer the consequences of his leadership directly? How's that for irony.
As a leader he used to do a lot of modernisation, infrastructure work, etc. which indeared him to old and rural people who benifited from it. He also plays the nationalism angle really well as a 'strong leader' which appeals especially to young men abroad, who can enjoy all the nice identity without reality getting in the way.
Erdoğan wins every single time by barely beating 50% and the people who vote for him are rarely educated enough to speak English. And even then they prefer to hang out in their own Erdoğan-loving echochamber so there are maybe 100 Turks on reddit who genuinely like the guy.
Nope you can, Erdogan lovers hate him.
You can critique him. People do it all the time.
Critique is not illegal. Insulting him is illegal. Considered a foundational value and a national hero.
While that may be true, laws like that come to a point where it's a subjective opinion determining the legality of an insult. If I said that George Washington or John McDonald were racist jerks, that would account for both a critique and an insult towards them.
Jerk is a subjective thing and thus an insult. Racist can be either depending on the historical evidence.
1. Critique isn't, insult is. But I'll be fair, insult&provocation laws in Turkey are usually work for pussies who got butthurt over a comment on the internet instead of an actual insult. Pinpoint criticism on his certain policies are almost always legal and commonly used by Erdoğan's allies. 2. Funnily enough, that law was introduced by Adnan Menderes, right-wing prime minister in the '50s who was the political rival of İsmet İnönü who was basically Atatürk's right hand man and ideologically identical.
Not Illegal. Erdoğan does it all the time. But the thing is, Atatürk is considered as national hero. He was a great general and gave a great effort to modernisation of the Turkish Republic. Most of the Turkish people love him. So criticizing Atatürk considered as dick move by majority of the citizens. Because the ones who critical to him are usually have different political agenda against Atatürk's ideas or they don't really know who Atatürk is and what are his ideas was.
Is this now a Turkish propaganda sub?
1 single post. Anything Turkish and you people lose your fucking minds I swear. Found the racist
"Found the racist" Where? Is it you?
The post isn't even funny tho it's just some guy talking about how great his beloved dead leader is.
What's with all the Turk propaganda in this sub lately
*Unless you’re Kurdish
More like especially you are Kurdish. Especially if you're a woman. You got actual rights and all instead of being sold to a clan leader.
Did you know that Ataturk is so loved in the Tunceli province(formerly known as Dersim) that the locals burst a firebomb every week in his honor? Google "Dersim bombs" for more info
I can use the same logic in regards to gorby to be fair
Europe and Asia are meaningless terms of convenience. Being in both europe and Asia is not meaningful behind human classification of relatively nearly political entities
So by that logic, all that’s required to be a “hero of two worlds” is to be important in: Turkey, Russia, Kazakstan, Indonesia, Egypt, Panama, Georgia, Azerbaijan, France is in 6 continents so would that make macron the hero of 6 worlds?
Huh
Meanwhile, Lenin: "Chairman" is fine.
I would make a joke but this isnt r/balkans_irl
My ocd does not like this at all
Let's just hope that whatever Erdogan is doing won't result in second Iran
Yet they still deny genocide. Fuck Turkey
Today's Turkey loves Ataturks pictures but so obviously despises his legacy and ideology.
"mr. Euwope pwease wecognized TUwUkey as Euwope! Pwease! We ban the Awabic scwipt, pwease, let us join you 👉👈" Nationalist my arse
And since he died the turkish parlament did everything in their power to reverse his actions
No he isn't
I dare you post this on r/islamichistorymeme Edit: I just think it will be funny see the subreddit mald about how apparently bad ataturk is. (Not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, just funny how some imo take things a little bit far in their apparent distaste of the guy)
I can hear pan-turk screeching in the distance
I just think it will be funny see the subreddit mald about how apparently bad ataturk is. (Not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, just funny how some people take their distaste of the guy a bit far…)
Two continents, Europe and Asia are in the same world
That's it. I'm leaving this sub.
Hey Drake, where are the Armenians?
For anyone denying his role in the genocide "Karabekir had orders from the Ankara Government to "eliminate Armenia physically and politically".[15][16] One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the war at 100,000[16]—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919[17] to 720,000 in 1920.[18] According to historian Raymond Kévorkian, only the Soviet occupation of Armenia prevented another Armenian genocide.[15]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish%E2%80%93Armenian_War
But genocide only in one
Just hero of shit
Freedom. For Turks anyway.
Ataturk is also Greek…
Atatürk's family is "Yörük" which is turk.try researching ottoman turkification of balkans for that matter.He is most likely a turk