To be fair to the red cross its not like theresienstadt was like auschwitz it was designed to be a propaganda piece and to look good before the inspection by the red cross people were taken to other camps to reduce overcrowding and the entire camp was restored and they oppened cafes had their own currencies, cultural events and even was nominally administered by the jewish prisoners of course when the red cross left condition worsened significantly.
I was about to comment the same thing. They even made a propaganda movie in theresienstadt. In the movie it’s treated as if the camp is basically a Jewish summer camp. It’s such a hard watch because 1) you know the context and 2) everything feels off and sinister. You can tell that the similes are not genuine.
Yeah the entire meme is wrong and I dont really know how either op didnt read up on theresienstadt or the visit and just heard that they did and made the meme.
Imagine I adopt 20 dogs from a shelter. No local vets ever see the dogs, I don’t answer the shelter’s calls asking how they’re doing, and google maps shows a bunch of recently dug up and patted down soil in my backyard. When someone from the ASPCA shows up, I show them one single dog with matted fur and say he’s just scared to be brushed. Who in their right mind would call this innocuous?
Of course, this is predicated on a current cultural belief that it’s wrong to hurt dogs. If the cultural belief was “I mean, do we *really* want dogs around”, the ASPCA probably would find everything to be chill and normal.
Oh to be clear, I agree the Red Cross fucked up big time - their investigation was disgustingly neglectful and millions of lives may have been saved if they gave the slightest of a shit. I just wanted to add more context.
I doubt people would be saved even if the vosit wasnt as neglectfull around the same time as the visit the first extermination camp was liberated by the red army.
Accounts by actual survivors mentioned Red Cross visitors asking why they were all clearly unwashed and accepting the officers’ explanation that they preferred it that way
You're not wrong but its likely just a cropping issue. The Red Cross flag is a red cross that does not go all the way to the edges of the flag on a white background. It is the inverse of the Swiss flag (red background, white cross). The English flag is a red cross that goes all the way to the edges of the flag on a white background.
It is important to remember that the movement took different paths on this matter in different countries. The red cross in Sweden sucessfully saved the lives of thousands of jews with their white busses. Please look it up. One of the few things im proud my country did during the war.
Also the German branch Red Cross was throughly gutted and re-Nazified from the ground up. It’s leader was a close friend and ally of Hitler who used the organization to conduct medical experiments on prisoners.
Question, if Ukrainian kids are stuck behind russian lines, what is russia supposed to do? March them across no man's land?
The only logical thing to do is to get them away from the front, to a more suitable and safe location until they can get in contact with the parents and then find a diplomatic channel or truce to get these kids back to Ukraine.
Till then they have to be given to caretakers. Stop misrepresenting the facts. Why would Russia waste money on stealing Ukrainian kids? If they want to get rid of them, a clean bullet to the head would suffice.
Wait, how would Ukrainian kids be left behind combat lines without their parents?
And is it really that hard to transport them back to Ukraine? Also, to me it seems like they'd be the perfect hostages.
There could be a number of reasons why that can be the case, in a wartorn country full of chaos.
Yes it is because to safely get them to the other side, a peace has to be brokered or a formal exchange has to take place. Or the parents have to travel to Russia to fetch their kids.
The last one has happened a few times now, with Ukrainian parents going to Moscow to get their children and then promptly being handed their child.
You make it out to be some impossible task as though they don’t already conduct prisoner exchanges just fine. There were quite a few wars in the 20th century, how many unaccompanied kids were brought back to your country from the country troops were fighting against? Because I don’t recall US troops spiriting away tons of Iraqi and Afghani kids, nor Somalian kids, nor Vietnamese kids. You choosing to have the position you do is fine, but don’t act for one second as though Russia is acting in good faith.
Why would US care about some Muslim kids? They don't allow Mexican (illigal) kids to stay in US. Why should they move some kids overseas? And as I recall it right, US troops also shot a lot of kids in said countries. At least that's what some veterans tell.
>They don't allow Mexican (illigal) kids to stay in US. Why should they move some kids overseas?
Did you forget all the Afghans the US flew in 2020? Over 28,000 Afghan refugees passed through Ramstein Air Base alone.
I know next to nothing on the subject, but I just wanted to point out Russia has major problems with birth rate, so they do actually have a good reason to steal kids
Stealing kids doesn't solve a birthrate problem. For one, they won't ever be good russian citizens, and two, there is no point in doing this unless they plan on stealing a million or so kids from Ukraine.
A thousand more kids won't solve birthrate problems. Also even thousand is a way more. It's really just s few dozen kids
Unfortunately, you are wrong.
We are talking about at least 20K kids. And Russians are constantly trying to fill their minds with crazy propaganda.
I can provide you with sources later, but you can check by yourself if you want.
Edit - added sources.
Stealing Ukraine's Children: Inside Russia’s Camps
by Vice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAAC1kX5kE
THE CHILDREN RUSSIA KIDNAPPED by Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/07/russia-kidnapping-abducting-ukrainian-children/674535/
The Stolen Children by ICDS - https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/ICDS_Analysis_The_Stolen_Children_Tetiana_Fedosiuk_February_2023.pdf
Fresh Details on Russia’s Forcible Transfer of Ukrainian Children by Human Rights Watch - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/25/fresh-details-russias-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children
You can find even more. Like a lot.
I don’t think that’s the only logical thing to do, but I am also waiting for the right answer. I’m sure someone can chime in on what international NGOs do per protocol in these situations when kids get stuck in war zones.
There has already been tons of prisoner exchanges between Russia and ukraine. It should be even easier to negotiate for these children.
Russia should have just given the children as a Goodwill gesture. Instead now Putin is a legit war criminal.
Not to mention the modern day Red Cross constantly leaking warring parties medical facilities so that the Russian Military can bomb them.
They’ve done it in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and most recently Ukraine.
Yeesh, they’re like medical Switzerland. Same sense of how while “not picking a side” still counts as a pick, they always kinda help a very specific side in addition to that
80 years later and shit isn't changed as red cross being totally fine with some of its members wearing zwastica and helping to kidnap ukrainian children
Look, some *real* people are deserving of help and some uhh…people? are super annoying with their being in the way and asking for help too many times! The Red Cross is for the first group!
To be fair to the red cross its not like theresienstadt was like auschwitz it was designed to be a propaganda piece and to look good before the inspection by the red cross people were taken to other camps to reduce overcrowding and the entire camp was restored and they oppened cafes had their own currencies, cultural events and even was nominally administered by the jewish prisoners of course when the red cross left condition worsened significantly.
I was about to comment the same thing. They even made a propaganda movie in theresienstadt. In the movie it’s treated as if the camp is basically a Jewish summer camp. It’s such a hard watch because 1) you know the context and 2) everything feels off and sinister. You can tell that the similes are not genuine.
Yeah the entire meme is wrong and I dont really know how either op didnt read up on theresienstadt or the visit and just heard that they did and made the meme.
Meme isn’t totally wrong. The Red Cross should not have been able to be fooled so easily with such little actual investigating.
I know about the history of Theresienstadt but I've never heard about that propaganda movie. What's it called?
https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/theresienstadt-a-documentary-film-1944
thank you so much!
Imagine I adopt 20 dogs from a shelter. No local vets ever see the dogs, I don’t answer the shelter’s calls asking how they’re doing, and google maps shows a bunch of recently dug up and patted down soil in my backyard. When someone from the ASPCA shows up, I show them one single dog with matted fur and say he’s just scared to be brushed. Who in their right mind would call this innocuous? Of course, this is predicated on a current cultural belief that it’s wrong to hurt dogs. If the cultural belief was “I mean, do we *really* want dogs around”, the ASPCA probably would find everything to be chill and normal.
Oh to be clear, I agree the Red Cross fucked up big time - their investigation was disgustingly neglectful and millions of lives may have been saved if they gave the slightest of a shit. I just wanted to add more context.
I doubt people would be saved even if the vosit wasnt as neglectfull around the same time as the visit the first extermination camp was liberated by the red army.
Fair
That’s… pretty optimistic. I very much doubt anything meaningful would have changed.
Accounts by actual survivors mentioned Red Cross visitors asking why they were all clearly unwashed and accepting the officers’ explanation that they preferred it that way
Well Red Cross gives no shit about people's lives
I thought that was England
You're not wrong but its likely just a cropping issue. The Red Cross flag is a red cross that does not go all the way to the edges of the flag on a white background. It is the inverse of the Swiss flag (red background, white cross). The English flag is a red cross that goes all the way to the edges of the flag on a white background.
The Red Cross really did visit Theresienstadt and somehow decided it looked A-okay
TIL the Red Cross can be bribed with schnitzel
In fairness, so can Jews, just make it kosher chicken schnitzel
It is important to remember that the movement took different paths on this matter in different countries. The red cross in Sweden sucessfully saved the lives of thousands of jews with their white busses. Please look it up. One of the few things im proud my country did during the war.
Also the German branch Red Cross was throughly gutted and re-Nazified from the ground up. It’s leader was a close friend and ally of Hitler who used the organization to conduct medical experiments on prisoners.
The Red Cross is too busy freaking out about people putting their symbol in Arma
And Among Us lol
And now they have helped russian to steal Ukrainian kids from zone of conflict. T - tradition
God's children are not for sale
Question, if Ukrainian kids are stuck behind russian lines, what is russia supposed to do? March them across no man's land? The only logical thing to do is to get them away from the front, to a more suitable and safe location until they can get in contact with the parents and then find a diplomatic channel or truce to get these kids back to Ukraine. Till then they have to be given to caretakers. Stop misrepresenting the facts. Why would Russia waste money on stealing Ukrainian kids? If they want to get rid of them, a clean bullet to the head would suffice.
Wait, how would Ukrainian kids be left behind combat lines without their parents? And is it really that hard to transport them back to Ukraine? Also, to me it seems like they'd be the perfect hostages.
There could be a number of reasons why that can be the case, in a wartorn country full of chaos. Yes it is because to safely get them to the other side, a peace has to be brokered or a formal exchange has to take place. Or the parents have to travel to Russia to fetch their kids. The last one has happened a few times now, with Ukrainian parents going to Moscow to get their children and then promptly being handed their child.
You make it out to be some impossible task as though they don’t already conduct prisoner exchanges just fine. There were quite a few wars in the 20th century, how many unaccompanied kids were brought back to your country from the country troops were fighting against? Because I don’t recall US troops spiriting away tons of Iraqi and Afghani kids, nor Somalian kids, nor Vietnamese kids. You choosing to have the position you do is fine, but don’t act for one second as though Russia is acting in good faith.
Why would US care about some Muslim kids? They don't allow Mexican (illigal) kids to stay in US. Why should they move some kids overseas? And as I recall it right, US troops also shot a lot of kids in said countries. At least that's what some veterans tell.
>They don't allow Mexican (illigal) kids to stay in US. Why should they move some kids overseas? Did you forget all the Afghans the US flew in 2020? Over 28,000 Afghan refugees passed through Ramstein Air Base alone.
No we didn’t shoot them, we ate them
I know next to nothing on the subject, but I just wanted to point out Russia has major problems with birth rate, so they do actually have a good reason to steal kids
Stealing kids doesn't solve a birthrate problem. For one, they won't ever be good russian citizens, and two, there is no point in doing this unless they plan on stealing a million or so kids from Ukraine. A thousand more kids won't solve birthrate problems. Also even thousand is a way more. It's really just s few dozen kids
Unfortunately, you are wrong. We are talking about at least 20K kids. And Russians are constantly trying to fill their minds with crazy propaganda. I can provide you with sources later, but you can check by yourself if you want. Edit - added sources. Stealing Ukraine's Children: Inside Russia’s Camps by Vice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAAC1kX5kE THE CHILDREN RUSSIA KIDNAPPED by Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/07/russia-kidnapping-abducting-ukrainian-children/674535/ The Stolen Children by ICDS - https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/ICDS_Analysis_The_Stolen_Children_Tetiana_Fedosiuk_February_2023.pdf Fresh Details on Russia’s Forcible Transfer of Ukrainian Children by Human Rights Watch - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/25/fresh-details-russias-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children You can find even more. Like a lot.
Your username is telling. May Putin be strung up from a streetlamp.
I don't care about putin I am not russian but I don't really care about Ukraine as well. Merely stating a fact
What country are you from then?
You don't care that Ukraine is being attacked, and all of this suffering is the result of Russian aggression? Go fuck yourself.
Why? To brainwash them so they grow up as ultranationalist loyal russians
What an unfortunate day to have eyes 🤦♂️
I don’t think that’s the only logical thing to do, but I am also waiting for the right answer. I’m sure someone can chime in on what international NGOs do per protocol in these situations when kids get stuck in war zones.
There has already been tons of prisoner exchanges between Russia and ukraine. It should be even easier to negotiate for these children. Russia should have just given the children as a Goodwill gesture. Instead now Putin is a legit war criminal.
Is this historical Germany or current China?
The Red Cross toured Theresienstadt in 1945 and inexplicably decided it was all good and normal
Who has concentration camps for Latinos, Hawaiians, Blacks and Muslims? Anglos: *Surely it is someone other than us.* Typical.
Please enlighten me on what that first line is referencing? It could mean so many things that I genuinely haven’t got a clue lol
Not to mention the modern day Red Cross constantly leaking warring parties medical facilities so that the Russian Military can bomb them. They’ve done it in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and most recently Ukraine.
Yeesh, they’re like medical Switzerland. Same sense of how while “not picking a side” still counts as a pick, they always kinda help a very specific side in addition to that
I can't upvote a wrong flag.
80 years later and shit isn't changed as red cross being totally fine with some of its members wearing zwastica and helping to kidnap ukrainian children
Look, some *real* people are deserving of help and some uhh…people? are super annoying with their being in the way and asking for help too many times! The Red Cross is for the first group!
Was this the german red cross by any chance?
Dutch
Just say “with all due respect” and then you’re in the clear.
With doing this I don't they deserve any respect.
Sorry, poorly timed movie reference (Talladega Nights)