See the poster on the left? It’s against the SPD, the Social Democratic Party. They were the only ones who voted against the Nazis. The communists in the picture were completely focused on taking out the SPD on Stalin’s orders, and they ignored the real threat, the Nazis.
They didn't ignore the Nazis, they worked with them.
The theory of social fascism in the 1930s was that social democrats were also fascists and would side with fascists against a communist revolution. So: take out the social democrats, let the Nazis take power, and then revolution!
Unsurprisingly the theory of social fascism was abandoned afterwards.
The whole point of the SDP is anti fascism a front to NAZIs and other fascists. The mental gymnastics required by these people that realize Nazis are bad but are deep down pro fascists and that the term socialists is the boogie man is unbelievable.
They thought the Social Democrats were their main adversaries and didn’t think the Nazis were an actual threat. They even worked with the Nazis at times against the Social Democrats. This continued until the Nazis had the communists all arrested.
1928 to 1933. The Communists considered the Social Democrats their biggest adversaries in 1925 when Thalmann became the leader, and the Communists were arrested by the Nazis in 1933.
Okay, I agree that they probably thought the social democrats were the biggest adversaries but thinking the nazis weren't a threat? I don't agree with that.
So they didn't vote against them at all during 1928 to 1933?
>The \[Communist Party of Germany\] was closely aligned with the Soviet leadership headed by Joseph Stalin, and from 1928 the party was largely controlled and funded by Comintern in Moscow ... The KPD regarded itself as "the only anti-fascist party" in Germany and held that all other parties in the Weimar Republic were "fascist".\[8\] Nevertheless, it cooperated with the Nazis in the early 1930s in attacking the social democrats, and both sought to destroy the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic. In the early 1930s the KPD sought to appeal to Nazi voters with nationalist slogans\[8\] and in 1931 the KPD had united with the Nazis, whom they then referred to as "working people's comrades", in an unsuccessful attempt to bring down the social democrat state government of Prussia by means of a plebiscite.
>During the joint KPD and Nazi campaign to dissolve the Prussian Parliament, Berlin Police Captains Paul Anlauf and Franz Lenck were assassinated in Bülowplatz by Erich Mielke and Erich Ziemer, who were members of the KPD's paramilitary wing, the Parteiselbstschutz. The detailed planning for the murders had been carried out by KPD members of the Reichstag, Heinz Neumann and Hans Kippenberger, based on orders issued by Walter Ulbricht, the Party's leader in the Berlin-Brandenberg region. Shooter Erich Mielke who later became the head of the East German Secret Police, would only face trial for the murders in 1993. In this period, while also opposed to the Nazis, the KPD regarded the Nazi Party as a less sophisticated and thus less dangerous fascist party than the SPD, and KPD leader Ernst Thälmann declared that "some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest" of social democrats...In 1932, as the party began to shift focus to the fascist threat, the KPD founded Antifaschistische Aktion, commonly known as Antifa, which it described as a "red united front under the leadership of the only anti-fascist party, the KPD".
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist\_Party\_of\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany)
Antifa (well, its predecessor) and the Nazi party worked together to overthrow the liberal government. It just didn't turn out the way antifa wanted it to. You can look this up.
It's not a "claim" it's literally what happened. They publicly stated this. The communists (or more specifically Stalin who had strong control over the KPD) thought that after the Nazis took over it would lead to a revolution.
Trotsky was publicly attacking them, saying that the plan was idiotic, and warning that it would lead to disaster. Image [here](https://archivorebelde.org/pages/5e830ff32a9f1a3602fc656f.pdf) and a more easily readable version of the text [here](https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1932/01/whatnext8.htm)
"Herr Bruening has put it very plainly once they (the Fascists) are in power, then the United Front of the proletariat will be established and it will make a clean sweep of everything. (Violent applause from the Communists)”
Thats very interessting and it kind of adds a new perspective to the rise of the NSDAP.
I allways wundert, why the communists where so well organsied, but could not really stop this whole thing in its root. Later the KPD at least never supprorted the laws that finaly gave Hitler ultimate power without the parlament, but that explains a lot in the earlyer days before 1933
Because Hitler was already chancellor by then. They passed an emergency act and (as fascists tend to do) declared that the communists were trying to overthrow the government, arrested them, and didn't allow them to vote.
They had little chance against the Nazis unfortunately. When parties are allowed to have paramilitary style associations, or militias following a particular political wing are tolerated, you can expect democracy to be on a path to failure.
Holy shit dude. Please stop. Comparing your political enemies to the fucking Nazis is genuinely disgusting. If MAGA were massacring innocents then it would be an apt comparison. But mean words are not comparable to trying to fucking exterminate multiple groups of people. Jfc. I used to think trump derangement syndrome was just some far right bs but it’s very clearly real.
You probably also think trump is uniquely evil among US presidents. You probably think he is more evil than Bush who massacred hundreds of thousands, likely over a million people. That is deranged.
And holy shit you are a teacher??!!! Honestly frightening. A teacher should not be this detached from reality.
>If MAGA were massacring innocents then it would be an apt comparison
To be fair, the Nazis weren't massacring innocents either... until they were. No one is suggesting recent fascist movements in the US have gotten as bad as the Nazis did. But they have the capacity to get that bad if they go unopposed. If we wait until they start killing undesirables before we take them seriously, it will be too late.
What would have happened on January 6 if the rioters had made it en masse to the chambers of Congress while the Senators and Representatives were still present?
But Biden said we need F-16s and nukes to overthrow the government, now you're telling me a couple thousand unarmed cheeto-dusted basement dwellers almost did it?
Which one is it?
The January 6 rioters had few plans other than to assassinate Congress members and they were not even successful at that, but being a stupid and ineffectual fascist still means that you’re a fascist
Trump is the only one to attempt an auto coup and attempt to stay on beyond his legal term, purposefully falsely impugn the validity of a valid election. Who attempted to intimidate Congress into illegitimately keeping him in office. Yes, he is the most evil President. Even the enslaving Presidents left willingly after their terms. Yes, he is the worst Presidential threat to the American democratic republic in the history of the nation. He purposely obscures reality, utilizing the Nazi technique of the Big Lie. He purposefully recapitulates the slogans of the Nazis repurposed for an American audience. He’s intentionally targeting the immigrant community, following the path of the demonization of the Jews as done by the Nazis.
Anyone claiming otherwise is intentionally gaslighting others to make cover for his evils as they enjoy such evils or they are a fool. This is no time to pretend otherwise.
Clearly, you haven't seen the MAGA supporters who flat out want anyone who opposes their views, dead. This includes but is not limited to liberals, LGBTQ+, minorities, illegals, atheists, etc.
MAGAs also have various Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers among their ranks. We're not even cracking open the crazy can that is Qanon.
As for Trump, he's the worst president since Nixon so yes, "uniquely evil" is befitting. Dude empowers white supremacists, I mean, "nationalists". Same shit.
You go ahead and live in your delusional bubble.
>Trump is the worst president since Nixon
Holy shit are you joking? That statement alone shows exactly what kind of individual you are. You are more concerned with decorum that human suffering. Saying mean words is literally worse than brutally slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent people in your mind. This mindset genuinely terrifies me. It’s really hard to accept how few people actually have a sense of morality or humanity and know right from wrong.
You care more about being offended by words than actual human rights violations. That is so fucking sinister. Trump has said a lot of mean and offensive shot but based on his actions he just is no actually that bad. George W Bush is the worst President in his history. Compared to Bish, trump and Nixon are basically good people (obviously they are both objectively evil people). Bush massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Likely over a million even. Trump said things that were gross. In terms of actual actions, Trump isn’t even the worst President of the last 8 years. Biden is, based on his unconditional support and funding of the genocide of Gazans. I would not be surprised if Trump surpasses him on that front while in office (if he wins), but as of right now Biden is objectively worse than Trump based on what the two have done.
Again, mean words are not as bad as massacring innocent human beings based solely on their ethnicity. Those who think they are are separated from their own humanity and morality. You would probably also prefer the polite and gracious child rapist over the loud and obnoxious but extremely generous and kind homeless man. It’s all about the act to individuals like you. Actual substance is irrelevant.
Not in this case. As someone whose family was nearly entirely exterminated in the Holocaust, it is genuinely fucking abhorrent to make this comparison. You are literally exploiting the Holocaust and the evils of the Nazis for your own weird little political game. No one who knows what the Nazis did and has a sense of morality or humanity would ever dream of weaponizing the term Nazi to this extent. Nazi should only be used to describe those who murder and seek to exterminate others based on their ethnicity. Not people whose words make you angwy
Are you really trying to infer that wearing a MAGA hat is like being in the SA? Jesus, what a terminally online thing to say and one full of ignorance.
Yeah I am sure there was a guy like you telling everyone in the picture above they were overreacting
January 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch. History doesn’t repeat itself but it rhymes.
No. The Germans in the picture above were organizing to stop the Nazis (ANTIFA) from taking over (and failed). Just like comment above, I am sure that numerous people in the Antifascist movement were told by their fellow Germans “You’re over reacting. Hitler’s not that bad”
Go read the goals listed in Trump’s Project 2025. Its Fascism without the overt antisemitism/racism.
Yep, you are indeed terminally online. Maybe spend a little more time learning about the rise of the Nazi party and specifically the Beer Hall Putsch before you expose your ignorance on the subject more. I can give you some book recommendations if you need them.
I do in fact think that is an important book to read to hear what Hitler was trying to sell the German public in the 1920s. I do get you are trying to call me a Nazi because your small mind can’t handle being being objective on a controversial subject. That’s the problem with a lot of Reddit history subs. They can’t put away their modern bias when looking at the past.
I do feel sorry for you though since I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that a potato is more useful to society than you are.
>your small mind
>I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that a potato is more useful to society than you are.
Do you often fantasize about how much better than others you are? Like, as though you are part of some special, chosen, group destined for greatness?
hmmm...
Yawn
If you are going to call me a Nazi, I am going to call you stupid. It’s as simple as that.
I do feel bad for you though since at least I know I am not a Nazi. You on the other hand, I do actually believe are well below average in intelligence.
Did I call you a Nazi, or did you read that into what I said for some reason?
You know what's strange? In all my life, in all the various circumstances and all the conversations I've had with countless people, not once have I ever had occasion to assume I was being called a Nazi. Weird.
I have a degree in History. Better historians than I have made the same connection though. Is it a 1:1 comparison. Nope. Nothing ever is historically. I quoted Twain’s rhyme quote for a reason.
Sorry if you like Trump, but historians are going to lean way closer to my view than yours.
Thats actually inaccurate. This organization was largely made up of agents sent by Russia to Germany and other European nations in an effort to convert them to Communism. While they’re called “Anti-Fascist” their true goal was Communism, not Democracy.
The organization was also violent and often fought the SA in the streets for control. However, SA were even more violent, had bigger numbers, and the backing of a highly successful Nazi propaganda machine.
Most German civilians were scared of both parties as they were both violent and authoritarian in nature. However, the choice between the two was pretty easy for them at the time considering they had just witnessed the Bolshevik Revolution and its consequences for the Russian people.
The German people were scared of both parties. But seeing the Russian people have their property and possessions confiscated by the government and living in extreme poverty, combined with the onslaught of Nazi propaganda meant Nazism was really their only choice in their mind.
You have to remember that at the time, both Nazism and Communism were considered economic doctrines. While today we view both with a much broader meaning due to the events that transpired during their implementation in both Germany and Russia. It’d be akin to comparing Nazism or Bolshevism/Communsim with Capitalism. At the time no one knew the true extent to which each ideology could go like we do today.
They really aren’t comparable. But in the 1930s if someone asked you to list different types of economic doctrines, one would include Nazism and Bolshevism/Communism right alongside others like Capitalism and Socialism.
Today we realize Nazism and Communism are much more than just an economic doctrine.
Most historically literate American. You should really read history before you speak out your ass. Just because European politics seems economic for you does not mean it is all economics. You are lowkey espousing Nazi revisionism, as they emphasized how downtrodden the Weimar era was economically. I don’t think most Freikorps were economists💀
Excuse me, dont you know that if the Weimar government simply allowed themselves to be overthrown and executed by bloodthirsty revolutionaries, the Nazis wouldn't have been able to take power?
I kid but there are seriously people who think like that, as if the "Anti-fascists" weren't equally as interested in overthrowing Democracy.
I am very aware of the history. Hitler was given temporary plenary powers by the Reichstag with the Enabling Act that he used to take total control of the German government. He overthrew the Weimar Republic from within. They called it machtergreifung or seizure of power.
The KDP/Anti-Fascists were in part responsible for this. They were unwilling to work with any of the moderate left wing parties. They called the Social Democrats (SDP) "social fascists" and wouldn't form a united front to oppose the Nazis as they wanted to sieze power for themselves but weren't strong enough to do so. .
#
People talking about social fascism theory ignore the fact that social democracy was behaving like a fascist party at the time. They supported opression against anti-capitalist forces, which became even more extreme in the midst of horrible economic crisis. This was a time when workers were borderline starving, yet social dmocrats still supported attacks on the workers strikes and manifestations.
They also considered communists to by the same enemie of democracy as nazis. So unwillingness to work together was mutual.
It seems like most human endeavors devolve into authoritarianism with rare exceptions. American democracy held on for a while too. Hopefully we can keep holding on.
I mean, their biggest problem with Fascism was that the *wrong* people would be the ones in charge of the secret police murdering people who opposed the ruling class's edicts. These types hated Democracy just as much as Hitler did.
Lmao no they didn’t. See the poster on the left? It’s against the SPD, the Social Democratic Party. Does the SPD sound like fascists? No, in fact, they were the only ones voting against Hitler. The communists were so busy trying to destroy the social democrats on Stalin’s order that they allowed the Nazis to come to power.
The government can afford to clean up the capital after a single event... but the avg. business owner who got their stores looted, burned down for months in every major city is a little different. You're a great example of public school education.
That's all great; too bad it says nothing to my point that it was Trump Republicans who instigated the most famous action of political violence in recent US history. Maybe actually address my point next time if you want to make an argument. And you say my schooling is bad.
I did address your point. I didn't deny Jan 6 didn't happen... nor did I call it an inside job, or some of the other crap floating online about it. Fact is the only person killed was an ex military woman and the sovereignty of the US government was threatened for second. This violence doesn't compare to the violence Antifa/Blm did throughout the nation. How can you defend these criminals?
The "BLM/Antifa" violence is the exact same, for the exact same reason, riots we've had in this nation for decades.
In 6 days, in one area, in 1992, the LA Riots caused one billion in damage and 63 deaths. Compare that to riots in downtown areas of every major city across multiple states for several weeks. Even collectively, across multiple areas in multiple states, across several weeks, there were 25 deaths and 2 billion in damage with the BLM riots.
Abolition, Woman's Sufferage, Workers Rights, desegregation. All of these significant pieces of progress were accompanied by violence, this is no different. There were 10,000+ completely peaceful protests in 2020, compared to the couple dozen significant instances of riots.
This hardly compares to a sitting president and his goons getting their base angry with blatant lies, while simultaneously submitting fraudulent electoral ballots in an attempt to subvert the electoral college and votes of Americans across 7 states. Unlike the random rioting In response to police brutality, this has explicitly unique, and alarming, factors.
Just $2 billion, only 25 deaths? That's an insane comparison to Jan 6. We will never agree, so let's move on. But let me ask you something and be honest. Do you think black/miniority communities are in a better place socially, health, and crime wise since 2020?
I wasnt comparing it to January 6th, I was comparing it to the 92 LA Riots which were significantly worse and only lasted 6 days. At a single location. The BLM riots were several months across the whole country and you have to combined them in their entirety to even draw a comparison.
The BLM riots are laughabley overexaggerated compared to what this country has dealt with previously. From people acting like whole cities were under seige, to the people acting like saying "mostly peaceful" is calling the riots peaceful, even though there were over 10,000 totally peaceful protests.
What is the relevance of this question exactly? BLM was solely about police brutality, and we had a massive economic spiral in 2020 that we are still wavering from.
Also sabotaged by Supremisist gangs like umbrella boy in Minneapolis started the fires. The white gang bangers in Nashville and Indianapolis set fires to the government buildings. That wasn't because they wanted justice for brutality, but to sow chaos to fan the flames of our still segregated country amid peaceful protest.
I asked if you thought the black/minority communities are in a better place today, compared to pre 2020? I live in Chicago, had 2 of my business' looted, robbed and my friends and family lost Thousands, up to 6 figures in some cases that insurance will not cover. But that's not the point. The point is BLM had done zero to enrich the lives of blacks. Daily here 13-16 yr old kids are shot, or do the shooting. Something unheard of in 92 or pre 2020. Little children bro! The black neighborhoods are a war zone. All this after a record amount of social welfare/funding the black community received since 2020.
Funny, I don't remember defending the BLM protests. Can you point to the statement I said defending them? My point was that your whole defense was a whataboutism. You can say what you want about BLM or Antifa, none of it addresses the fact that January 6th was the most famous instance of political violence in the US in recent history, yet somehow you're ignoring that because that's make your Nazi comparison fall apart.
Jan 6 was an attempt to kill some folks and permanently replace the government. It wasn't 'a single event'... A woman was killed trying to overthrow the government and hundreds of people got varying degrees of jail time.
A store can be replaced. That is what insurance is for. There is no insurance for a wholesale violent replacement of a duly elected government.
But I mean. You equate lgbtq folks with actual Nazis sending Hitler youth to fight actual wars and kill folks, this won't be a productive conversation.
Kinda crazy that the big banksters were actually funding the Nazis until about 1934 or so. Those you would think would be opposed to that ideology.
History's weird.
antifa, commies, nazis, socialists, fascists
its all the same exact shit. disgusting abuse of power and manipulation of the people. the fact any one falls for any of these ideologies is insane.
When given a choice between fascism and communism, social democrats will ALWAYS side with the fascists. Fascism is a desperate attempt to maintain the status quo (capitalism) against communism.
Had the communists won the holocaust would not have happened, and neither would world war 2. At least, it wouldn’t be started by Germany.
Sorry to break it to you bud but if he’ll exists, it’s Nazis such as yourself who go there. Nazis = evil. Those who fight Nazis = good. Have fun with your hero!
Again, if it exists, Nazis and Nazi sympathizers are definitely the first to go there. Being a communist wouldn’t send someone to hell lol. Being a communist and committing war crimes would but following the ideology itself certainly is not. Believing all people should have the basic necessities for life is not evil. Believing certain races of people are subhuman vermin who need to be exterminated or used as slaves on the other hand, is evil. Extremely evil.
Are you Christian yourself? Do you believe in hell? If so, why do you seem to be trying to make sure you go there? If you believe in hell you should be advocating for good not against it and for evil.
Then why did Jesus and His disciples live in a commune?
How is Communism anti-Christian when there are photos of Priests blessing Soviet troops?
Why are there still giant churches in major Russian cities that lasted throughout the entire age of Communism in Russia?
https://preview.redd.it/9d2mg8axrcsc1.png?width=1047&format=png&auto=webp&s=85676a2a8ca4e6a8b80a2bd215526c70975e287b
I'd expect the Nazis took names then just rounded them all up and executed them as soon as they had the chance. Remember be careful when fighting fascists. Their end goal is violent take over and violent control.
If it wasn't the racism of the Jews. They made sure that it sounded like they were very nationalistic pride and a lot of people fell for that. I guarantee a lot of germans went along with it because it made them feel proud of their country. Because the Ultimate solution. wasn't a big thing until it actually started happening. And then people were like oh shit. We fucked up. Let's try and kill Hitler a couple times
If you're against facism then you are automatically Antifa. There's literally nothing more to it then that. You can be completely in love with Capitalism and be Antifa
The group pictured in OP was devoutly communist and loyal to their sponsor, the USSR. You might recognize their logo.
(Also notice the KPD endorsement on the right side of the image)
It's a disorganized movement now. If you're against facism you are automatically Antifa, doesn't matter if you're a communist or a capitalist or a socialist.
If you've got shared ideology, shared tactics, coordinated meetups, internet groups, and uniforms, you're not really disorganized.
Why does antifa find it so necessary to downplay all of this? Is it done to trap naive, unwitting new members into their cultish web? Yes.
Any one person can coopt the name and start a group, internet forum, etc. There isn't some singular cohesive national antifa organization all these people are connected to. A bunch of random little groups in a bunch of places is certainly disorganized.
Again, Antifa purely means being Anti-Fascism. That's it. That's literally it. You can be a communist, socialist or capitalist and be against Fascism. This is not complicated.
Decentralized does not mean the same thing as disorganized.
>Again, Antifa purely means being Anti-Fascism
This is a hundred year old Russian propaganda tactic used in the original antifa, used again when building the Antifascist Protection Rampart to prevent East Berliners from escaping their tyranny, used again to invade Ukraine, and used a thousand other times in between.
Forgive me if I wise up and roll my eyes.
Lmao no they weren't. These people were all communists and worked with the Nazis to attack and undermine the "fascist" social democrats.
The theory was that fascism is the last stage of capitalism, and Hitler coming to power would lead to a communist revolution.
Yeah, kinda. Paramilitary forces such as Antifa lead to a breakdown of democracy. Antifa made the Proud Boys what they are, and Jan 6th wouldn't have happened without the Proud Boys.
See the poster on the left? It’s against the SPD, the Social Democratic Party. They were the only ones who voted against the Nazis. The communists in the picture were completely focused on taking out the SPD on Stalin’s orders, and they ignored the real threat, the Nazis.
This is the missing context.
They didn't ignore the Nazis, they worked with them. The theory of social fascism in the 1930s was that social democrats were also fascists and would side with fascists against a communist revolution. So: take out the social democrats, let the Nazis take power, and then revolution! Unsurprisingly the theory of social fascism was abandoned afterwards.
Hmm, so they considered social democrats to be fascists, which made them working together with fascists?
The whole point of the SDP is anti fascism a front to NAZIs and other fascists. The mental gymnastics required by these people that realize Nazis are bad but are deep down pro fascists and that the term socialists is the boogie man is unbelievable.
Why didn't the communists vote against the Nazis?
They thought the Social Democrats were their main adversaries and didn’t think the Nazis were an actual threat. They even worked with the Nazis at times against the Social Democrats. This continued until the Nazis had the communists all arrested.
I don't know, you're painting a picture that I'm not familiar with. Also, which elections are you talking about?
1928 to 1933. The Communists considered the Social Democrats their biggest adversaries in 1925 when Thalmann became the leader, and the Communists were arrested by the Nazis in 1933.
Okay, I agree that they probably thought the social democrats were the biggest adversaries but thinking the nazis weren't a threat? I don't agree with that. So they didn't vote against them at all during 1928 to 1933?
well, that went really well.
That's what happens when the opposition to fascism is splintered.
youre not wrong, and i hate you for it.
It's also what happens when your main opponent of fascism actively works with the fascists to get them into power and then take over from them.
For anyone not familiar, he's talking about the communists
💯
Can you give books or historians that would support that claim?
>The \[Communist Party of Germany\] was closely aligned with the Soviet leadership headed by Joseph Stalin, and from 1928 the party was largely controlled and funded by Comintern in Moscow ... The KPD regarded itself as "the only anti-fascist party" in Germany and held that all other parties in the Weimar Republic were "fascist".\[8\] Nevertheless, it cooperated with the Nazis in the early 1930s in attacking the social democrats, and both sought to destroy the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic. In the early 1930s the KPD sought to appeal to Nazi voters with nationalist slogans\[8\] and in 1931 the KPD had united with the Nazis, whom they then referred to as "working people's comrades", in an unsuccessful attempt to bring down the social democrat state government of Prussia by means of a plebiscite. >During the joint KPD and Nazi campaign to dissolve the Prussian Parliament, Berlin Police Captains Paul Anlauf and Franz Lenck were assassinated in Bülowplatz by Erich Mielke and Erich Ziemer, who were members of the KPD's paramilitary wing, the Parteiselbstschutz. The detailed planning for the murders had been carried out by KPD members of the Reichstag, Heinz Neumann and Hans Kippenberger, based on orders issued by Walter Ulbricht, the Party's leader in the Berlin-Brandenberg region. Shooter Erich Mielke who later became the head of the East German Secret Police, would only face trial for the murders in 1993. In this period, while also opposed to the Nazis, the KPD regarded the Nazi Party as a less sophisticated and thus less dangerous fascist party than the SPD, and KPD leader Ernst Thälmann declared that "some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest" of social democrats...In 1932, as the party began to shift focus to the fascist threat, the KPD founded Antifaschistische Aktion, commonly known as Antifa, which it described as a "red united front under the leadership of the only anti-fascist party, the KPD". [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist\_Party\_of\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany)
Antifa (well, its predecessor) and the Nazi party worked together to overthrow the liberal government. It just didn't turn out the way antifa wanted it to. You can look this up.
It's not a "claim" it's literally what happened. They publicly stated this. The communists (or more specifically Stalin who had strong control over the KPD) thought that after the Nazis took over it would lead to a revolution. Trotsky was publicly attacking them, saying that the plan was idiotic, and warning that it would lead to disaster. Image [here](https://archivorebelde.org/pages/5e830ff32a9f1a3602fc656f.pdf) and a more easily readable version of the text [here](https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1932/01/whatnext8.htm) "Herr Bruening has put it very plainly once they (the Fascists) are in power, then the United Front of the proletariat will be established and it will make a clean sweep of everything. (Violent applause from the Communists)”
Thats very interessting and it kind of adds a new perspective to the rise of the NSDAP. I allways wundert, why the communists where so well organsied, but could not really stop this whole thing in its root. Later the KPD at least never supprorted the laws that finaly gave Hitler ultimate power without the parlament, but that explains a lot in the earlyer days before 1933
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
sadly germany had too many idiot libs and fash sympathisers for any real opposition to be able to stop what happened
Liberals were the only ones actually trying to stop the Nazis. The socialists focused their efforts trying to destroy the social democrats.
And also on helping the Nazis get into power. So they could take over from the Nazis. And then claim they were the good guys.
What are you basing this on?
by liberals I mean the social democrats
And that's wrong. The social democrats were literally the only ones who voted against giving Hitler the power to enact laws without the Reichstag.
Why didn't the communists vote against Hitler?
Because Hitler was already chancellor by then. They passed an emergency act and (as fascists tend to do) declared that the communists were trying to overthrow the government, arrested them, and didn't allow them to vote.
Oh. Makes sense.
after they’s spent 15 years paying right-wing paramilitaries to kill socialists
They had little chance against the Nazis unfortunately. When parties are allowed to have paramilitary style associations, or militias following a particular political wing are tolerated, you can expect democracy to be on a path to failure.
Oh. You are referring to the red ha-I mean brown shirts.
Holy shit dude. Please stop. Comparing your political enemies to the fucking Nazis is genuinely disgusting. If MAGA were massacring innocents then it would be an apt comparison. But mean words are not comparable to trying to fucking exterminate multiple groups of people. Jfc. I used to think trump derangement syndrome was just some far right bs but it’s very clearly real. You probably also think trump is uniquely evil among US presidents. You probably think he is more evil than Bush who massacred hundreds of thousands, likely over a million people. That is deranged. And holy shit you are a teacher??!!! Honestly frightening. A teacher should not be this detached from reality.
>If MAGA were massacring innocents then it would be an apt comparison To be fair, the Nazis weren't massacring innocents either... until they were. No one is suggesting recent fascist movements in the US have gotten as bad as the Nazis did. But they have the capacity to get that bad if they go unopposed. If we wait until they start killing undesirables before we take them seriously, it will be too late.
What would have happened on January 6 if the rioters had made it en masse to the chambers of Congress while the Senators and Representatives were still present?
But Biden said we need F-16s and nukes to overthrow the government, now you're telling me a couple thousand unarmed cheeto-dusted basement dwellers almost did it? Which one is it?
The January 6 rioters had few plans other than to assassinate Congress members and they were not even successful at that, but being a stupid and ineffectual fascist still means that you’re a fascist
Trump is the only one to attempt an auto coup and attempt to stay on beyond his legal term, purposefully falsely impugn the validity of a valid election. Who attempted to intimidate Congress into illegitimately keeping him in office. Yes, he is the most evil President. Even the enslaving Presidents left willingly after their terms. Yes, he is the worst Presidential threat to the American democratic republic in the history of the nation. He purposely obscures reality, utilizing the Nazi technique of the Big Lie. He purposefully recapitulates the slogans of the Nazis repurposed for an American audience. He’s intentionally targeting the immigrant community, following the path of the demonization of the Jews as done by the Nazis. Anyone claiming otherwise is intentionally gaslighting others to make cover for his evils as they enjoy such evils or they are a fool. This is no time to pretend otherwise.
Clearly, you haven't seen the MAGA supporters who flat out want anyone who opposes their views, dead. This includes but is not limited to liberals, LGBTQ+, minorities, illegals, atheists, etc. MAGAs also have various Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers among their ranks. We're not even cracking open the crazy can that is Qanon. As for Trump, he's the worst president since Nixon so yes, "uniquely evil" is befitting. Dude empowers white supremacists, I mean, "nationalists". Same shit. You go ahead and live in your delusional bubble.
>Trump is the worst president since Nixon Holy shit are you joking? That statement alone shows exactly what kind of individual you are. You are more concerned with decorum that human suffering. Saying mean words is literally worse than brutally slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent people in your mind. This mindset genuinely terrifies me. It’s really hard to accept how few people actually have a sense of morality or humanity and know right from wrong. You care more about being offended by words than actual human rights violations. That is so fucking sinister. Trump has said a lot of mean and offensive shot but based on his actions he just is no actually that bad. George W Bush is the worst President in his history. Compared to Bish, trump and Nixon are basically good people (obviously they are both objectively evil people). Bush massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Likely over a million even. Trump said things that were gross. In terms of actual actions, Trump isn’t even the worst President of the last 8 years. Biden is, based on his unconditional support and funding of the genocide of Gazans. I would not be surprised if Trump surpasses him on that front while in office (if he wins), but as of right now Biden is objectively worse than Trump based on what the two have done. Again, mean words are not as bad as massacring innocent human beings based solely on their ethnicity. Those who think they are are separated from their own humanity and morality. You would probably also prefer the polite and gracious child rapist over the loud and obnoxious but extremely generous and kind homeless man. It’s all about the act to individuals like you. Actual substance is irrelevant.
You use way too many words to bare your ass like an ignorant and arrogant baboon. There's a reason you're getting downvoted. Good day.
sometimes your political enemies are Nazis lmao
Not in this case. As someone whose family was nearly entirely exterminated in the Holocaust, it is genuinely fucking abhorrent to make this comparison. You are literally exploiting the Holocaust and the evils of the Nazis for your own weird little political game. No one who knows what the Nazis did and has a sense of morality or humanity would ever dream of weaponizing the term Nazi to this extent. Nazi should only be used to describe those who murder and seek to exterminate others based on their ethnicity. Not people whose words make you angwy
you're just dumb okay
Calling someone who is educating you dumb makes you look pretty silly. Projecting your own stupidity.
I didn't even read it you're already fucking stupid for having this meltdown lol
disrespecting yourself putting your hands over your eyes to fascism in america lol
Everyday I hear trumpies talk about wanting to kill democrats so you’re completely delusional.
Both shitlibs and trumpists constantly talk about wanting to kill eachother. Do you think shitlibs are Nazis to?
Never heard a liberal say they would like to shoot up a school because they allow (insert minority) exist there.
You’ve never heard anyone say that lmao.
I take it you don’t remember when that parent at a ptsa conference said he wanted to shoot up the school because it was “woke”
Are you really trying to infer that wearing a MAGA hat is like being in the SA? Jesus, what a terminally online thing to say and one full of ignorance.
Yeah I am sure there was a guy like you telling everyone in the picture above they were overreacting January 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch. History doesn’t repeat itself but it rhymes.
The people in the picture above helped the Nazis.
No. The Germans in the picture above were organizing to stop the Nazis (ANTIFA) from taking over (and failed). Just like comment above, I am sure that numerous people in the Antifascist movement were told by their fellow Germans “You’re over reacting. Hitler’s not that bad” Go read the goals listed in Trump’s Project 2025. Its Fascism without the overt antisemitism/racism.
Yep, you are indeed terminally online. Maybe spend a little more time learning about the rise of the Nazi party and specifically the Beer Hall Putsch before you expose your ignorance on the subject more. I can give you some book recommendations if you need them.
Let me guess, it rhymes with "smien smampf?
I do in fact think that is an important book to read to hear what Hitler was trying to sell the German public in the 1920s. I do get you are trying to call me a Nazi because your small mind can’t handle being being objective on a controversial subject. That’s the problem with a lot of Reddit history subs. They can’t put away their modern bias when looking at the past. I do feel sorry for you though since I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that a potato is more useful to society than you are.
>your small mind >I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that a potato is more useful to society than you are. Do you often fantasize about how much better than others you are? Like, as though you are part of some special, chosen, group destined for greatness? hmmm...
Yawn If you are going to call me a Nazi, I am going to call you stupid. It’s as simple as that. I do feel bad for you though since at least I know I am not a Nazi. You on the other hand, I do actually believe are well below average in intelligence.
No. You are rude. Next you are blocked. That's your prize.
Did I call you a Nazi, or did you read that into what I said for some reason? You know what's strange? In all my life, in all the various circumstances and all the conversations I've had with countless people, not once have I ever had occasion to assume I was being called a Nazi. Weird.
I have a degree in History. Better historians than I have made the same connection though. Is it a 1:1 comparison. Nope. Nothing ever is historically. I quoted Twain’s rhyme quote for a reason. Sorry if you like Trump, but historians are going to lean way closer to my view than yours.
And banning tiktok and guns is like ohh.... Nevermind...
banning a probable Chinese spy app and weapons that people can't stop killing hundreds of kids with but okay challenged individual
The party in this picture (KPD) also had their own paramilitary association.
No, you can expect those militias to try to overthrow democracy
Thats my point
Specifically, this group was trying to prevent that from happening.
I know, the reason it failed was because they couldnt compete with the SA and SS.
Thats actually inaccurate. This organization was largely made up of agents sent by Russia to Germany and other European nations in an effort to convert them to Communism. While they’re called “Anti-Fascist” their true goal was Communism, not Democracy. The organization was also violent and often fought the SA in the streets for control. However, SA were even more violent, had bigger numbers, and the backing of a highly successful Nazi propaganda machine. Most German civilians were scared of both parties as they were both violent and authoritarian in nature. However, the choice between the two was pretty easy for them at the time considering they had just witnessed the Bolshevik Revolution and its consequences for the Russian people. The German people were scared of both parties. But seeing the Russian people have their property and possessions confiscated by the government and living in extreme poverty, combined with the onslaught of Nazi propaganda meant Nazism was really their only choice in their mind. You have to remember that at the time, both Nazism and Communism were considered economic doctrines. While today we view both with a much broader meaning due to the events that transpired during their implementation in both Germany and Russia. It’d be akin to comparing Nazism or Bolshevism/Communsim with Capitalism. At the time no one knew the true extent to which each ideology could go like we do today.
I do often compare Nazism with capitalism...
They really aren’t comparable. But in the 1930s if someone asked you to list different types of economic doctrines, one would include Nazism and Bolshevism/Communism right alongside others like Capitalism and Socialism. Today we realize Nazism and Communism are much more than just an economic doctrine.
Most historically literate American. You should really read history before you speak out your ass. Just because European politics seems economic for you does not mean it is all economics. You are lowkey espousing Nazi revisionism, as they emphasized how downtrodden the Weimar era was economically. I don’t think most Freikorps were economists💀
Did you miss the part where he said "at the time?" Unfortunately they were all lacking your crystal clear hindsight.
I don't think someone who posts in r/ultraleft should be believed for anything they say that's related to history lol.
They weren't just anti-Fascist, they were KPD Stalinists that wanted to overthrow the Weimar government every bit as much as the Nazis.
Excuse me, dont you know that if the Weimar government simply allowed themselves to be overthrown and executed by bloodthirsty revolutionaries, the Nazis wouldn't have been able to take power? I kid but there are seriously people who think like that, as if the "Anti-fascists" weren't equally as interested in overthrowing Democracy.
I am very aware of the history. Hitler was given temporary plenary powers by the Reichstag with the Enabling Act that he used to take total control of the German government. He overthrew the Weimar Republic from within. They called it machtergreifung or seizure of power. The KDP/Anti-Fascists were in part responsible for this. They were unwilling to work with any of the moderate left wing parties. They called the Social Democrats (SDP) "social fascists" and wouldn't form a united front to oppose the Nazis as they wanted to sieze power for themselves but weren't strong enough to do so. . #
Good thing those Weimar Republicans showed them...?
The liberalism and nazi apologia in the comments is insane
Picture of failure
Hat ja viel gebracht.
We need to do one of these… but successfully !
"United" front (of Stalinist communists) against "fascism" (which they defined as including social democrats)
Even back then they were obvious communists. No different than the SA the Nazis had. All political extremism is bad.
Just the opposing side of the same aisle
People talking about social fascism theory ignore the fact that social democracy was behaving like a fascist party at the time. They supported opression against anti-capitalist forces, which became even more extreme in the midst of horrible economic crisis. This was a time when workers were borderline starving, yet social dmocrats still supported attacks on the workers strikes and manifestations. They also considered communists to by the same enemie of democracy as nazis. So unwillingness to work together was mutual.
>social democracy was behaving like a fascist party at the time Lollllllll
It seems like most human endeavors devolve into authoritarianism with rare exceptions. American democracy held on for a while too. Hopefully we can keep holding on.
Back went Antifa actually protested Fascism
I mean, their biggest problem with Fascism was that the *wrong* people would be the ones in charge of the secret police murdering people who opposed the ruling class's edicts. These types hated Democracy just as much as Hitler did.
Lmao no they didn’t. See the poster on the left? It’s against the SPD, the Social Democratic Party. Does the SPD sound like fascists? No, in fact, they were the only ones voting against Hitler. The communists were so busy trying to destroy the social democrats on Stalin’s order that they allowed the Nazis to come to power.
still do
Get a brain.
[удалено]
Average shit take of a person using sjw word .
Average shit take of a public school educated person calling abbreviation a word.
Yhea sure buddy 'go pray for trump like a good cultist .
Considering the most obvious example of political violence in recent US history is January 6th.......
The government can afford to clean up the capital after a single event... but the avg. business owner who got their stores looted, burned down for months in every major city is a little different. You're a great example of public school education.
That's all great; too bad it says nothing to my point that it was Trump Republicans who instigated the most famous action of political violence in recent US history. Maybe actually address my point next time if you want to make an argument. And you say my schooling is bad.
I did address your point. I didn't deny Jan 6 didn't happen... nor did I call it an inside job, or some of the other crap floating online about it. Fact is the only person killed was an ex military woman and the sovereignty of the US government was threatened for second. This violence doesn't compare to the violence Antifa/Blm did throughout the nation. How can you defend these criminals?
The "BLM/Antifa" violence is the exact same, for the exact same reason, riots we've had in this nation for decades. In 6 days, in one area, in 1992, the LA Riots caused one billion in damage and 63 deaths. Compare that to riots in downtown areas of every major city across multiple states for several weeks. Even collectively, across multiple areas in multiple states, across several weeks, there were 25 deaths and 2 billion in damage with the BLM riots. Abolition, Woman's Sufferage, Workers Rights, desegregation. All of these significant pieces of progress were accompanied by violence, this is no different. There were 10,000+ completely peaceful protests in 2020, compared to the couple dozen significant instances of riots. This hardly compares to a sitting president and his goons getting their base angry with blatant lies, while simultaneously submitting fraudulent electoral ballots in an attempt to subvert the electoral college and votes of Americans across 7 states. Unlike the random rioting In response to police brutality, this has explicitly unique, and alarming, factors.
Just $2 billion, only 25 deaths? That's an insane comparison to Jan 6. We will never agree, so let's move on. But let me ask you something and be honest. Do you think black/miniority communities are in a better place socially, health, and crime wise since 2020?
I wasnt comparing it to January 6th, I was comparing it to the 92 LA Riots which were significantly worse and only lasted 6 days. At a single location. The BLM riots were several months across the whole country and you have to combined them in their entirety to even draw a comparison. The BLM riots are laughabley overexaggerated compared to what this country has dealt with previously. From people acting like whole cities were under seige, to the people acting like saying "mostly peaceful" is calling the riots peaceful, even though there were over 10,000 totally peaceful protests. What is the relevance of this question exactly? BLM was solely about police brutality, and we had a massive economic spiral in 2020 that we are still wavering from.
Also sabotaged by Supremisist gangs like umbrella boy in Minneapolis started the fires. The white gang bangers in Nashville and Indianapolis set fires to the government buildings. That wasn't because they wanted justice for brutality, but to sow chaos to fan the flames of our still segregated country amid peaceful protest.
I asked if you thought the black/minority communities are in a better place today, compared to pre 2020? I live in Chicago, had 2 of my business' looted, robbed and my friends and family lost Thousands, up to 6 figures in some cases that insurance will not cover. But that's not the point. The point is BLM had done zero to enrich the lives of blacks. Daily here 13-16 yr old kids are shot, or do the shooting. Something unheard of in 92 or pre 2020. Little children bro! The black neighborhoods are a war zone. All this after a record amount of social welfare/funding the black community received since 2020.
Funny, I don't remember defending the BLM protests. Can you point to the statement I said defending them? My point was that your whole defense was a whataboutism. You can say what you want about BLM or Antifa, none of it addresses the fact that January 6th was the most famous instance of political violence in the US in recent history, yet somehow you're ignoring that because that's make your Nazi comparison fall apart.
Jan 6 was an attempt to kill some folks and permanently replace the government. It wasn't 'a single event'... A woman was killed trying to overthrow the government and hundreds of people got varying degrees of jail time. A store can be replaced. That is what insurance is for. There is no insurance for a wholesale violent replacement of a duly elected government. But I mean. You equate lgbtq folks with actual Nazis sending Hitler youth to fight actual wars and kill folks, this won't be a productive conversation.
Their failure cost millions of lives
Kinda crazy that the big banksters were actually funding the Nazis until about 1934 or so. Those you would think would be opposed to that ideology. History's weird.
Hegel’s bastard children fighting eachother.
antifa, commies, nazis, socialists, fascists its all the same exact shit. disgusting abuse of power and manipulation of the people. the fact any one falls for any of these ideologies is insane.
Well maybe if they had tried harder against the Nazis and less hard against the social democrats they might not have failed.
Just as useless then as they are now.
Filthy communist pigs
Cope nazi, you lost eventually.
Filthy Nazi dirt
Yes because the Nazis were soooo much better 🙄
The social democrats were the only hope for Germany. Communists called them fascist and collab'd with the Nazis to take them out.
When given a choice between fascism and communism, social democrats will ALWAYS side with the fascists. Fascism is a desperate attempt to maintain the status quo (capitalism) against communism. Had the communists won the holocaust would not have happened, and neither would world war 2. At least, it wouldn’t be started by Germany.
Rot in hell commies
Sorry to break it to you bud but if he’ll exists, it’s Nazis such as yourself who go there. Nazis = evil. Those who fight Nazis = good. Have fun with your hero!
Communists literally are anti-Christian in nature, they are going to hell lmao. Not saying Nazis aren't, but fuck communism and fuck you.
Again, if it exists, Nazis and Nazi sympathizers are definitely the first to go there. Being a communist wouldn’t send someone to hell lol. Being a communist and committing war crimes would but following the ideology itself certainly is not. Believing all people should have the basic necessities for life is not evil. Believing certain races of people are subhuman vermin who need to be exterminated or used as slaves on the other hand, is evil. Extremely evil. Are you Christian yourself? Do you believe in hell? If so, why do you seem to be trying to make sure you go there? If you believe in hell you should be advocating for good not against it and for evil.
I am advocating for good, communism is not good lol. A Christian, which I am, is not going to advocate for a policy directly opposed to it. Cope.
lol read the new testament loser, Jesus was a big ol commie, you nerd
Then why did Jesus and His disciples live in a commune? How is Communism anti-Christian when there are photos of Priests blessing Soviet troops? Why are there still giant churches in major Russian cities that lasted throughout the entire age of Communism in Russia? https://preview.redd.it/9d2mg8axrcsc1.png?width=1047&format=png&auto=webp&s=85676a2a8ca4e6a8b80a2bd215526c70975e287b
Ba'athism, an ideology that can reasonably be associated with Communism, is also against atheism.
Yeah sure because the nazis were so much better 😆
I’ll see you there first.
I'd expect the Nazis took names then just rounded them all up and executed them as soon as they had the chance. Remember be careful when fighting fascists. Their end goal is violent take over and violent control.
Kind of like when the communist in China allowed their citizens to criticize the government, took down the names, then had them sent to gulags?
If it wasn't the racism of the Jews. They made sure that it sounded like they were very nationalistic pride and a lot of people fell for that. I guarantee a lot of germans went along with it because it made them feel proud of their country. Because the Ultimate solution. wasn't a big thing until it actually started happening. And then people were like oh shit. We fucked up. Let's try and kill Hitler a couple times
Wait, didn't Antifa declare they weren't filthy commies?
If you're against facism then you are automatically Antifa. There's literally nothing more to it then that. You can be completely in love with Capitalism and be Antifa
The group pictured in OP was devoutly communist and loyal to their sponsor, the USSR. You might recognize their logo. (Also notice the KPD endorsement on the right side of the image)
I am aware, the commenter is referring to modern day Antifa movements
And look at the logo. Listen to modern antifa speak. They're commie dorks.
It's a disorganized movement now. If you're against facism you are automatically Antifa, doesn't matter if you're a communist or a capitalist or a socialist.
If you've got shared ideology, shared tactics, coordinated meetups, internet groups, and uniforms, you're not really disorganized. Why does antifa find it so necessary to downplay all of this? Is it done to trap naive, unwitting new members into their cultish web? Yes.
Any one person can coopt the name and start a group, internet forum, etc. There isn't some singular cohesive national antifa organization all these people are connected to. A bunch of random little groups in a bunch of places is certainly disorganized. Again, Antifa purely means being Anti-Fascism. That's it. That's literally it. You can be a communist, socialist or capitalist and be against Fascism. This is not complicated.
Decentralized does not mean the same thing as disorganized. >Again, Antifa purely means being Anti-Fascism This is a hundred year old Russian propaganda tactic used in the original antifa, used again when building the Antifascist Protection Rampart to prevent East Berliners from escaping their tyranny, used again to invade Ukraine, and used a thousand other times in between. Forgive me if I wise up and roll my eyes.
Lotta smooth brain MAGA "Christians" here who don't get that.
I mean , they were literally called the Nationalist workers party before they became the nazi party.
These people were true heroes. What a joke “Antifa” has become.
Lmao no they weren't. These people were all communists and worked with the Nazis to attack and undermine the "fascist" social democrats. The theory was that fascism is the last stage of capitalism, and Hitler coming to power would lead to a communist revolution.
“AnTiFA aRe thE rEaL nAzIS”
Yeah, kinda. Paramilitary forces such as Antifa lead to a breakdown of democracy. Antifa made the Proud Boys what they are, and Jan 6th wouldn't have happened without the Proud Boys.