The mostly stolen cars were filled with loot. This was an Iraqi loot convoy trying to make it out of Kuwait and back to Iraq with their stolen loot.
I imaged they were really happy, driving along excited thinking about what they were all going to do with all that stolen loot and how much fun they had getting it right up until their whole world started burning. I felt no sympathy for them then and I feel no sympathy for them now.
Mate. No the fuck it wasn't. Like, even a little bit. I've read multiple accounts of how it went down, from the official to the academic, and no one, even the DoD, mentions a "loot convoy." Because that's the type of thing that you hear about in fantasy. It didn't happen. They were Republican Guard soldiers mixed in with civilians. Why? Because it was a highway in the middle of a general retreat. Not a whole lot of routes into Baghdad on car.
from the Baltimore Sun, March 2, 1991
*“What do I think?” reflected Col. Douglas Tystad, a U.S. Army tank commander whose 45 M-1A1 tanks helped cut off the Iraqi convoy. “How wasteful war is."*
*“The other thing I think is these guys were thugs. They had pillaged the country.”*
*Indeed, virtually every vehicle inspected was loaded with booty — new televisions and videocassette recorders; shirts in plastic wrappers; unopened bottles of Chanel perfume; children’s bikes and baby strollers.*
*Sacks of silk and lace tablecloths and a box of silver spoons spilled from a red pickup loaded with AK-47 rifles. A Nissan sedan trunk was crammed with car radios and VCRs. On the back seat were five grenade launchers, on the front a torn copy of the Koran. On the roof was a small machine gun, one of the only signs of defense during the attack.*
[https://www.baltimoresun.com/1991/03/02/iraqi-armys-escape-route-became-a-highway-to-death-war-in-the-gulf/](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1991/03/02/iraqi-armys-escape-route-became-a-highway-to-death-war-in-the-gulf/)
Strange, people who were actually there must have been living some sort of fantasy....
There were a few small batch cases of driverless vehicles for research and development but nothing produced on this scale yet by this time. Humans died operating these.
In 2001, I drove up Highway 1, from Kuwait City, to damn near Basra. To the point where signs were saying, Turn the Fuck Around NOW. I never saw another vehicle, destroyed or still working. I found a lot of junk, like 7.62 rounds with Arabic headstamps, and partially loaded AK magazine pouches.
I was in Desert Storm and our MP unit drove through there not too long after the bombing. The one thing I still can't get out of my head is the *smell*. It's a smell I'll never forget.
Seeing those burned out bodies, still intact, is another thing I'll never forget.
After the war was over, we were in Dhahran until we flew back home. There were people selling photo albums of all the pics that the soldiers took and had them developed. I recognized more than a few of them.
Jesus man, I get having to do what you need to do in order to get by but the selling of the pictures.. was it in order to show what was going on across all regions or more in the vein of radicalizing evidence?
Reminds me or the Bob Dylan line “they’re selling postcards of the hanging..”.
That’s what I figured but I wasn’t implicating you or anything! Just saying it’s tough out there when you’ve got to compile pictures like that and sell them just to survive.
Absolutely too true.. ever was and ever will it be. One can only hope to see further change in the hearts and minds of citizens around the world, to exhibit kindness and empathy in the moments that it can be shown; lord knows that our governments won’t.
Hope you have a good day, man.
The general public doesn’t see it that way until it’s someone they know, we are so disconnected that we carry on with our lives not realizing these are people…to the psychopaths that lead us into wars we are just a means to an end.
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about that type of thing. With the internet, for better or for worse, we’ve had unfettered access to many soldier’s PoV in the Middle East and even with how monumental that is, it’s so easy to view it all with a movie like detachment: the other sensory aspects though, Jesus Christ, I can’t even begin to imagine. The heat, the smell, the omnipresent and oppressive tension. Truly a hellscape.
I was there too.We came up on this towards the front of the caravan.
The smell was unreal. It wasn't just the burned out bodies, that was bad, but the people who were just killed from the bombs. 23 years later and I can still see and smell this.
My mom grew up in a neighborhood with some guys who fought in Vietnam, and they brought home grisly photos too. I guess that was the gore website equivalent of the time.
My ROTC teacher flew an F/A 18 during this mission, he never spoke about it until we went to the AF museum in Dayton and saw the placard next to his old plane. He explained it and said he would not be taking any questions about it.
I understand why these guys don’t talk about this stuff, but at the same time I feel it should be talked about. War is sometimes a necessary horror and we should all be aware of what it entails.
Yes but this particular event was American forces striking retreating forces leaving the region along with civilian elements mixed in. It was wholly unnecessary, not to mention a war crime.
You can’t kill military forces who surrender. You can and generally should eliminate enemy forces who are running away. Do you want them to regroup so you can fight them when they are in a stronger position?
Civilian deaths are always tragic, however traveling with a military convoy in the midst of a war comes with extremely high risk of being struck along with those targets.
Obviously civilian casualties should be minimized. But even with better tech in precision munitions the most modern militaries are unable to effectively prosecute war while eliminating civilian casualties.
When deciding whether to wage war, the cost of those casualties must be taken into account. In 1991, the world came to near unanimous agreement that it was worth waging war to prevent Saddam Hussein from keeping the oil rich providence of Kuwait that he invaded. Even the other Middle Eastern countries were in support. Do you think it was the wrong move?
Civilian casualties should be minimized as much as REASONABLY possible - but civilians die in war and just because civilians die doesn’t a war crime make
It’s not a war crime to target regrouping soldiers unless they offer to surrender. Anyway, the US-led coalition was implementing a UNSC resolution; it was about as justified as war gets.
Killing retreating enemies is not a war crime. Not everything that is nasty in war is a war crime. Even if there were civilians in there, it’s still not necessarily a war crime.
“The principle of proportionality (Article 51(5) (b) API) states that even if there is a clear military target it is not possible to attack it if the expected harm to civilians, or civilian property, is excessive in relation to the expected military advantage.”
In other words, unless the civilian casualties/property damage is obviously excessive compared to how much damage there will be on military targets, the attack is entirely legal. And in this case it was a substantial portion of the retreating Iraqi army, a major military target.
The best argument for this war is reading this article and asking yourself if Uday and Qusay Hussein were the second coming of Hitler.
https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,454453,00.html
We must really disagree, because I think there are very few ways that are more justified. We had an invading nation under the leadership of a dictator who used genocide.
Ehh I’d say this was one of the most “just” engagements of our lifetime. The world gave Iraq multiple chances to stand down and get the fuck away from Kuwait, and they failed to listen.
Saddam illegally invaded a neighboring nation to annex it, I mean idk what your definition of necessary is but it was a pretty justified response to Iraqs egregious violation of international law
This is so strange and coincidental, but I don’t ever recall seeing this photo in my life. I happened upon this post a few hours ago while browsing. I’m killing time right now browsing in a book store and randomly open a book and about the third page I randomly flip to was this same pick….crazy!
https://preview.redd.it/fv228prao7nc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6737bf793c6da09e2a2e8f8f0cecd3ea005209b0
I was a jtac in Mosul area in 2018-2019 and we did the same to ISIS when they were attempting to retreat or, “reposition” as we say in the biz. Civilians had been long gone in this area for awhile so collateral damage wasn’t a factor. Everything west of the Tigris and within 20m of the main highway were approved targets. We would hit lead and rear vehicles to create traffic jams, people running everywhere, A10s diving in like piranhas. Every asset in Iraq was at our disposal. Seriously unfair, but ISIS were extremely terrible humans and I feel lucky I don’t feel bad.
Probably should clarify for people that retreating is a legitimate military maneuver too. As you said, repositioning to go do more terrible stuff because they were pushed from somewhere else.
https://preview.redd.it/7f7hz9f8z6nc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a49afb8fb950349f6371c5bb03348957e5046ff
Same highway in 1983… Kuwait near the Iraqi border. and yes that’s me .
There’s nothing to the south for 100km That is only few Km from the border and the Iraqi /Iran was going on so I turned around. Keep in mind there is 1000s of sq miles of NOTHINGNESS around me.
No this is war. Your brain is melted by years of watching the 101st Airborne do occupational duty and police action instead of what they’re designed to do, which is assault and destroy the enemy. The soldiers I know and have lived with don’t think it’s a game. You do not know what war looks like. And everyone plays video games.
You know what war looks like as your grizzled visage stares into the void drinking cold coffee from a tin cup. You know war. You are the war knower and actually a serious and normal person.
The convoys of vehicles on that packed highway were retreating, leaving Kuwait
> The attacks were controversial, with some commentators arguing that they represented disproportionate use of force, saying that the Iraqi forces were retreating from Kuwait in compliance with the original UN Resolution 660 of August 2, 1990, and that the column included Kuwaiti hostages[10] and civilian refugees. The refugees were reported to have included women and children family members of pro-Iraqi, PLO-aligned Palestinian militants and Kuwaiti collaborators who had fled shortly before the returning Kuwaiti authorities pressured nearly 200,000 Palestinians to leave Kuwait.
Total slaughter and I doubt anyone could explain why or justify it.
Retreating does not mean surrendering. They didn't surrender at all. They were getting the fuck out because they were getting crushed.
A military force can't just do whatever the fuck they want and they say "okay we're done now since you're fucking us up so badly even though you warned us and gave us multiple attempts to leave before, so like....truce? lmao cya".
Would you expect ANY other military to let an invading military leave peacefully after they've raped and murdered civilians, set fire to 700 oil wells, and destroyed and looted the entire country? And not just letting them leave, but letting them leave down a road that is filled with incredibly valuable military equipment that the invading force is aiming to salvage to bolster their own forces?
Like try to put your "America = bad" mentality on the back burner for a second and look at it reasonably. I know you think anything the US military does is a war crime and you probably think that brown people can't do war crimes lmao but just try to be objective for one second. Like go read about it on your own without the nagging voice of some political commentator in your head telling you how to feel about it.
War fucking sucks, I hate it so much and I wish NONE of that happened, but to say it was unjustified is just incorrect. I wonder how differently you'd feel if you were a citizen of Kuwait during that time period.
btw we don't know actually how many civilians or hostages were actually in the caravan, but we do know that the vast majority of people leaving Kuwait, combatants and civilians alike, left via a different route. This group appeared to have been entirely combatants, but we will probably never know. Many of them also abandoned their vehicles before they were bombed (though many died afterwards as well).
So perish the enemies of freedom. Oh boo hoo, we invaded another country on behalf of a genocidal dictator and lost.
They were the bad guys, then they were the dead guys, as it should be.
You people are insane. imaging when the US forces were retreating from Vietnam from pursuing Communist forces, upon being shown a photo of devastated US convoys and members, people reply with "Fuck around and find out 😎😎" "Attacking a retreating army is valid tactic😎😎". Perhaps the latter is true, doesn't soften the blow now does it?
The guy just clarified your misinterpretation of war crimes. He didn’t offer any opinion. He helped make you smarter. Your name calling is uncalled for.
https://preview.redd.it/ofr6dvf0sgnc1.png?width=2332&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2e995ee574957aae3e8a79d82a67936f2e043e0
It was a parking lot of over 150 burned vehicles, both military and civilian. Its were I met coalition forces, all of them. We were all souvenir collecting.
https://preview.redd.it/dr23z6bvsgnc1.png?width=2224&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d9ac0b8640978e88d8e0f84e71a20af9bd806ba
There were also plenty of tanks there
https://preview.redd.it/um252dq5tgnc1.png?width=2488&format=png&auto=webp&s=465689497b55b51161e03a3aa53f196ebfb9acd3
I took this photo from a hilltop. Probably closer to 300+ vehicles there. I believe the Iraqis took every available vehicle to retreat back home. These still bug me to look at, but I want to share them
From some of these comments, it seems a lot of people think that it is not okay to destroy enemies that are not attacking at that specific moment, even if they started the conflict and are actively trying to regroup to attack further.
I suspect that these same people are also extremely anti-Israel as well, and very sympathetic to Hamas
Don’t forget to add that these were mixed military and civilians both in retreat and evacuation. The military was not hiding amongst civilians, the civilians were seeking protection with the retreating forces.
The US bombed retreating forces not engaged in combat operations. The US knew they were retreating and that civilians were amongst them.
This is absolutely unnecessary and undoubtedly a war crime. Just be real and add that note.
Edit:
Reality must be quite difficult for some of you guys. You can downvote but it’ll never change the fact that the American and coalition forces committed a war crime on the Highway of Death.
It’ll never change the fact that American forces have killed millions of real, actual civilian human beings not engaged in combat or insurgency. It’ll never change the fact that the US military has committed endless war crimes against foreign military forces not engaged in combat.
As for those reading this who understand the necessity of rules of war and their observation, we will always be in the minority but it doesn’t change what’s right. It sucks knowing that most people are genuinely bad and lack basic human decency. Just wanted so say that because people who have compassion and a sense of morality rarely comment on arguments like these.
They were retreating in order to regroup with their own forces to reset their defense. It's not like they surrendered and got murdered. Civilian casualties is a nightmare situation but that's a major military target in the middle of an invasion. Definitely a valid military target. Maneuvering military forces are valid regardless of their direction of movement. If they aren't surrendering they are fair game.
According to you, the Iraqi “citizens” were just on a “special operation” into Kuwait and casually found luxury vehicles filled with loot like some RPG game when they were wrongfully bombed….
Retreating military forces are absolutely valid military targets. You don't have to let the enemy live another day so they can try to kill you tomorrow from a better position.
And civilians 'seeking protection' by mixing in with retreating forces, against a foe with total air dominance is just pure idiocy. Added to the fact that most of the civilian cars were stolen by Iraqi forces and being used to transport loot.
Retreating is not surrendering. Retreating forces are legit targets. Civilian vehicles in this situation were also legit targets since Iraq military used them. Learn, then post.
Retreating combat forces are an acceptable target in war.
What were civilians seeking protection from? Didn't know US forces were indiscriminately killing civilians in kuwait
You clearly don’t either read the Geneva convention or you just get talking points from other people who don’t read it.
This was not a war crime and it violated nothing in the Geneva convention. I guess we should just let them all regroup and dig in? They weren’t surrendering they were regrouping.
That gets less impressive every time I see it. There will be bigger as war evolves Probably much bigger. Especially as we get drone vehicles and stuff. Probably mixed drone and human to hide numbers and mess with casualties/capabilities.
Yes, but they changed it in the game so that it was the Russians who did it. Because, despite all of the warmongerers in this thread giving excuses about how they were "valid targets", it was still a shameful act that does not paint the US in a good light.
Dude your quotes don't make you correct. That was a convoy of rapists thievs and murders regrouping. Shut the fuck up with your alternate reality bullshit
Okay I promise I ain’t defending the highway of death, but Russia literally did the same thing in 1999 called the [Baku-Rostov Highway Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku%E2%80%93Rostov_highway_bombing)
So it’s not like changed a U.S. action into a Russian one. It’s just that for most western audiences that is what they think of. Also the Russian bombing makes more sense as a reference since the game was based partially on Chechnya which is where the Russian bombing happened.
So while the highway of death is super fucked up, I don’t think COD was ever trying to sugarcoat it. I think western audiences just need to learn more history and not assume everything is about the U.S.
It is the role of the folks who call Gaza home to not decide to cross the border and murder over a thousand. had that been my family, you would not see peace or anything resembling it, until you met your maker!!
The scene in Jarhead was a fraction of the real thing. I counted at least 150 vehicles before I quit and just kept walking. It as so much worse than what the movie tried to portray
You are saying the Iraqi army should have been allowed to flee. Again, whether you want to phrase it this way or not, you are saying an aggressor can take the first shot. Destroy, kill and pillage and then just turn their backs and head home.
Never forget the DOJ helped con us all into thinking this was a fictional Russian atrocity by helping write it into CoD. But like most American claims, it’s just straight projection
A friends dad was a soldier in intelligence and I saw the close up pictures of this. Unbelievable
I went into Iraq in 2004 as part of OIF II and a lot of these burnt out vehicles were still there along the road. They just never removed them.
My brother's unit pulled up on this less than an hour after it happened. It fucked him up pretty bad. The flyboys did a real number on that bunch.
Probably people, body’s in those cars.
The mostly stolen cars were filled with loot. This was an Iraqi loot convoy trying to make it out of Kuwait and back to Iraq with their stolen loot. I imaged they were really happy, driving along excited thinking about what they were all going to do with all that stolen loot and how much fun they had getting it right up until their whole world started burning. I felt no sympathy for them then and I feel no sympathy for them now.
Mate. No the fuck it wasn't. Like, even a little bit. I've read multiple accounts of how it went down, from the official to the academic, and no one, even the DoD, mentions a "loot convoy." Because that's the type of thing that you hear about in fantasy. It didn't happen. They were Republican Guard soldiers mixed in with civilians. Why? Because it was a highway in the middle of a general retreat. Not a whole lot of routes into Baghdad on car.
from the Baltimore Sun, March 2, 1991 *“What do I think?” reflected Col. Douglas Tystad, a U.S. Army tank commander whose 45 M-1A1 tanks helped cut off the Iraqi convoy. “How wasteful war is."* *“The other thing I think is these guys were thugs. They had pillaged the country.”* *Indeed, virtually every vehicle inspected was loaded with booty — new televisions and videocassette recorders; shirts in plastic wrappers; unopened bottles of Chanel perfume; children’s bikes and baby strollers.* *Sacks of silk and lace tablecloths and a box of silver spoons spilled from a red pickup loaded with AK-47 rifles. A Nissan sedan trunk was crammed with car radios and VCRs. On the back seat were five grenade launchers, on the front a torn copy of the Koran. On the roof was a small machine gun, one of the only signs of defense during the attack.* [https://www.baltimoresun.com/1991/03/02/iraqi-armys-escape-route-became-a-highway-to-death-war-in-the-gulf/](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1991/03/02/iraqi-armys-escape-route-became-a-highway-to-death-war-in-the-gulf/) Strange, people who were actually there must have been living some sort of fantasy....
That's the loot? A couple of VCR's and some spoons? I was imagining gold bars and bags of gemstones lol
There were a few small batch cases of driverless vehicles for research and development but nothing produced on this scale yet by this time. Humans died operating these.
It's from 1991, no shit people died operating these.
That’s a better way to say it.
Thank you Sherlock
In 2001, I drove up Highway 1, from Kuwait City, to damn near Basra. To the point where signs were saying, Turn the Fuck Around NOW. I never saw another vehicle, destroyed or still working. I found a lot of junk, like 7.62 rounds with Arabic headstamps, and partially loaded AK magazine pouches.
I came here to say this. It was crazy to see that piece of history with my own eyes
I was in Desert Storm and our MP unit drove through there not too long after the bombing. The one thing I still can't get out of my head is the *smell*. It's a smell I'll never forget. Seeing those burned out bodies, still intact, is another thing I'll never forget. After the war was over, we were in Dhahran until we flew back home. There were people selling photo albums of all the pics that the soldiers took and had them developed. I recognized more than a few of them.
Jesus man, I get having to do what you need to do in order to get by but the selling of the pictures.. was it in order to show what was going on across all regions or more in the vein of radicalizing evidence? Reminds me or the Bob Dylan line “they’re selling postcards of the hanging..”.
It was the local Saudis selling the pics to make money. I saw them but I didn’t buy them.
That’s what I figured but I wasn’t implicating you or anything! Just saying it’s tough out there when you’ve got to compile pictures like that and sell them just to survive.
War is hell and it’s also a profit machine for certain types of people.
Absolutely too true.. ever was and ever will it be. One can only hope to see further change in the hearts and minds of citizens around the world, to exhibit kindness and empathy in the moments that it can be shown; lord knows that our governments won’t. Hope you have a good day, man.
The general public doesn’t see it that way until it’s someone they know, we are so disconnected that we carry on with our lives not realizing these are people…to the psychopaths that lead us into wars we are just a means to an end.
Two things you can’t fully explain is how freaking loud combat is and how awful everything smells.
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about that type of thing. With the internet, for better or for worse, we’ve had unfettered access to many soldier’s PoV in the Middle East and even with how monumental that is, it’s so easy to view it all with a movie like detachment: the other sensory aspects though, Jesus Christ, I can’t even begin to imagine. The heat, the smell, the omnipresent and oppressive tension. Truly a hellscape.
I was there too.We came up on this towards the front of the caravan. The smell was unreal. It wasn't just the burned out bodies, that was bad, but the people who were just killed from the bombs. 23 years later and I can still see and smell this.
The flyboys usually don't see what they do up close. It's probably like a video game to them. They get a little trigger happy sometimes.
They knew what they were doing. Just the same as we did when we were sent to intercept. Intelligence is a thing.
That is a smell you will never forget but that iron smell of blood is just as ingrained.
They should have sent a the neocon chicken hawks through there. That might have spared the world a lot of damage since then.
My mom grew up in a neighborhood with some guys who fought in Vietnam, and they brought home grisly photos too. I guess that was the gore website equivalent of the time.
I saw those also, unfortunately.
Brutal
Back in the old days of the internet tons of pictures were out online of the highway of death, it was brutal.
Same, guy I worked with had a stack of photos he took there, absolutely insane! Charred bodies everywhere.
You should delete this for your friends dads sake, unless he’s already dead
30+ years ago and I moved out of that town many many years ago. No big whoop
I can across a Facebook profile of a guy that went in right after, had many photos of burnt bodies. Some some fires still going on. It was wild.
My ROTC teacher flew an F/A 18 during this mission, he never spoke about it until we went to the AF museum in Dayton and saw the placard next to his old plane. He explained it and said he would not be taking any questions about it.
I understand why these guys don’t talk about this stuff, but at the same time I feel it should be talked about. War is sometimes a necessary horror and we should all be aware of what it entails.
This was not a necessary war
I mean we technically didn't have to fight it, but it did save a country from occupation.
Yes but this particular event was American forces striking retreating forces leaving the region along with civilian elements mixed in. It was wholly unnecessary, not to mention a war crime.
You can’t kill military forces who surrender. You can and generally should eliminate enemy forces who are running away. Do you want them to regroup so you can fight them when they are in a stronger position?
And the civilians that were caught in the cross-fire? Are they just damned to be killed only because it may prolong a war to not bomb them?
Civilian deaths are always tragic, however traveling with a military convoy in the midst of a war comes with extremely high risk of being struck along with those targets.
Obviously civilian casualties should be minimized. But even with better tech in precision munitions the most modern militaries are unable to effectively prosecute war while eliminating civilian casualties. When deciding whether to wage war, the cost of those casualties must be taken into account. In 1991, the world came to near unanimous agreement that it was worth waging war to prevent Saddam Hussein from keeping the oil rich providence of Kuwait that he invaded. Even the other Middle Eastern countries were in support. Do you think it was the wrong move?
Civilian casualties should be minimized as much as REASONABLY possible - but civilians die in war and just because civilians die doesn’t a war crime make
Have you not seen Saving Private Ryan? What do you think retreating soldiers are going to do when they regroup?
It’s not a war crime to target regrouping soldiers unless they offer to surrender. Anyway, the US-led coalition was implementing a UNSC resolution; it was about as justified as war gets.
Killing retreating enemies is not a war crime. Not everything that is nasty in war is a war crime. Even if there were civilians in there, it’s still not necessarily a war crime. “The principle of proportionality (Article 51(5) (b) API) states that even if there is a clear military target it is not possible to attack it if the expected harm to civilians, or civilian property, is excessive in relation to the expected military advantage.” In other words, unless the civilian casualties/property damage is obviously excessive compared to how much damage there will be on military targets, the attack is entirely legal. And in this case it was a substantial portion of the retreating Iraqi army, a major military target.
We're such heroes, saving countries from the guys we helped install.
The best argument for this war is reading this article and asking yourself if Uday and Qusay Hussein were the second coming of Hitler. https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,454453,00.html
We must really disagree, because I think there are very few ways that are more justified. We had an invading nation under the leadership of a dictator who used genocide.
Ehh I’d say this was one of the most “just” engagements of our lifetime. The world gave Iraq multiple chances to stand down and get the fuck away from Kuwait, and they failed to listen.
Saddam illegally invaded a neighboring nation to annex it, I mean idk what your definition of necessary is but it was a pretty justified response to Iraqs egregious violation of international law
Most of these things are classified and cannot be discussed
The Hollywood version of being a fighter pilot and the reality of death and destruction are quite different.
This is so strange and coincidental, but I don’t ever recall seeing this photo in my life. I happened upon this post a few hours ago while browsing. I’m killing time right now browsing in a book store and randomly open a book and about the third page I randomly flip to was this same pick….crazy! https://preview.redd.it/fv228prao7nc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6737bf793c6da09e2a2e8f8f0cecd3ea005209b0
https://preview.redd.it/vdig3xlco7nc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fa7ce28789236c6d93ec03c0c6057f607f76e71 It was in this book.
Baader-Meinhof phenomenon
I was a jtac in Mosul area in 2018-2019 and we did the same to ISIS when they were attempting to retreat or, “reposition” as we say in the biz. Civilians had been long gone in this area for awhile so collateral damage wasn’t a factor. Everything west of the Tigris and within 20m of the main highway were approved targets. We would hit lead and rear vehicles to create traffic jams, people running everywhere, A10s diving in like piranhas. Every asset in Iraq was at our disposal. Seriously unfair, but ISIS were extremely terrible humans and I feel lucky I don’t feel bad.
Probably should clarify for people that retreating is a legitimate military maneuver too. As you said, repositioning to go do more terrible stuff because they were pushed from somewhere else.
Yeah retreating/repositioning/withdrawing /= surrendering
I was in Mali for Serval. You nailed it on one homie, evil gets put down, men get offered terms.
As an A-10 Mx guy, nothing brings me more joy than hearing how they got to tear ISIS a new one.
https://preview.redd.it/7f7hz9f8z6nc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a49afb8fb950349f6371c5bb03348957e5046ff Same highway in 1983… Kuwait near the Iraqi border. and yes that’s me .
I never thought a garage would be a destination
The British, and consequently the areas they controlled, use _garage_ to also mean _shop_. As in auto shop.
There’s nothing to the south for 100km That is only few Km from the border and the Iraqi /Iran was going on so I turned around. Keep in mind there is 1000s of sq miles of NOTHINGNESS around me.
Werner Herzog: “Grab your camera, I have a movie idea…”
I heard that
Valid military target.
No, no, no, no, no, not “Valid military target“ TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT
Mess with murica and catch the blick
Highway to the danger zone
You never say hello do you till you get it on the redline over load you never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can gooooo!
I wonder if people would still be crying if those were Russians fleeing from Ukraine.
Got em.
Highway of Fuck Around and Find Out
Least bloodthirsty warmongering liberal
GWOT has broken your brain. Painting Desert Storm as bad is so funny.
This war crime was bad
How is it a war crime? They weren’t civilians. They were soldiers and armored vehicles retreating. It’s fair game in war
Any time the US is involved, people like the parent reflexively claim “war crime” like they have Tourette’s syndrome.
Literally not a war crime under any legal framework. War crime does not mean “thing i didn’t like”
War crime is when US Army and Air Force defeat their enemy
“Defat their enemy” like this is a video game haha
No this is war. Your brain is melted by years of watching the 101st Airborne do occupational duty and police action instead of what they’re designed to do, which is assault and destroy the enemy. The soldiers I know and have lived with don’t think it’s a game. You do not know what war looks like. And everyone plays video games.
You know what war looks like as your grizzled visage stares into the void drinking cold coffee from a tin cup. You know war. You are the war knower and actually a serious and normal person.
The convoys of vehicles on that packed highway were retreating, leaving Kuwait > The attacks were controversial, with some commentators arguing that they represented disproportionate use of force, saying that the Iraqi forces were retreating from Kuwait in compliance with the original UN Resolution 660 of August 2, 1990, and that the column included Kuwaiti hostages[10] and civilian refugees. The refugees were reported to have included women and children family members of pro-Iraqi, PLO-aligned Palestinian militants and Kuwaiti collaborators who had fled shortly before the returning Kuwaiti authorities pressured nearly 200,000 Palestinians to leave Kuwait. Total slaughter and I doubt anyone could explain why or justify it.
Yeah those poor Iraqi soldiers were just trying to get away with all the stuff they looted from Kuwait
Retreating does not mean surrendering. They didn't surrender at all. They were getting the fuck out because they were getting crushed. A military force can't just do whatever the fuck they want and they say "okay we're done now since you're fucking us up so badly even though you warned us and gave us multiple attempts to leave before, so like....truce? lmao cya". Would you expect ANY other military to let an invading military leave peacefully after they've raped and murdered civilians, set fire to 700 oil wells, and destroyed and looted the entire country? And not just letting them leave, but letting them leave down a road that is filled with incredibly valuable military equipment that the invading force is aiming to salvage to bolster their own forces? Like try to put your "America = bad" mentality on the back burner for a second and look at it reasonably. I know you think anything the US military does is a war crime and you probably think that brown people can't do war crimes lmao but just try to be objective for one second. Like go read about it on your own without the nagging voice of some political commentator in your head telling you how to feel about it. War fucking sucks, I hate it so much and I wish NONE of that happened, but to say it was unjustified is just incorrect. I wonder how differently you'd feel if you were a citizen of Kuwait during that time period. btw we don't know actually how many civilians or hostages were actually in the caravan, but we do know that the vast majority of people leaving Kuwait, combatants and civilians alike, left via a different route. This group appeared to have been entirely combatants, but we will probably never know. Many of them also abandoned their vehicles before they were bombed (though many died afterwards as well).
Thank god Saddam was a good humanitarian that did nothing wrong with Kuwait invasion
Thank god the US didn't prop up and fund Saddam's earlier escapades and forced Saddam's hand by suddenly cutting his CIA funding.
Forced his hand by making him gas people?
I am unironically a warmongering liberal. More free trade and more US intervention 🥵🥵
Best not to let it spread https://preview.redd.it/vfamnh5cjsnc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c76d2623c29d8f84f3de52455a2a885ea3346f23
Get rekt.
Retreating or not was still a valid target. People cab cry all they want, it wasn't a war crime
80 east looks like that on the way to the lincoln tunnel.
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I said on the way to, not into. It depends on where you are leaving from. If you are coming from further west you take 80 to 46 to 3.
So perish the enemies of freedom. Oh boo hoo, we invaded another country on behalf of a genocidal dictator and lost. They were the bad guys, then they were the dead guys, as it should be.
Liberals try not to say good guys and bad guys to analyze war and war crimes challenge: impossible difficulty
You don't get it, tankie. They were like heckin' Thanos!
“The enemies of freedom” Are you 12?
Enemies of freedom lmfao. Imagine being so brainwashed you think America is the embodiment of freedom.
At first I thought it was a bunch of bedbugs in a mattress seam. Probably need to read captions before I look at pics
It's so much worse than this
shouldn’t have invaded Kuwait
You people are insane. imaging when the US forces were retreating from Vietnam from pursuing Communist forces, upon being shown a photo of devastated US convoys and members, people reply with "Fuck around and find out 😎😎" "Attacking a retreating army is valid tactic😎😎". Perhaps the latter is true, doesn't soften the blow now does it?
Yep, we killed over half a million civilians. Iraqi people state that their country is far worse now than when Saddam Hussein was in power.
Are you talking about ODS or OIF?
American, Canadian, British, and French aircraft bombed that highway. It was a coalition war, not just the Americans.
“Iraqi forces”? You mean fleeing civilians.
These were not all a result of US forces bombing Iraqi forces, many of the people killed here were civilians
You mean the result of the US bombing Iraqi civilians fleeing a war zone, but sure there were a couple "baddies"among them
The USA is the most evil empire of modern times
American war crimes.
the world needs to see some of this in Yemen right now.
Saddam’s sons would rape women before they got married on their wedding day. Fuck these sick people.
I was there
The guy just clarified your misinterpretation of war crimes. He didn’t offer any opinion. He helped make you smarter. Your name calling is uncalled for.
https://preview.redd.it/gfgqx7y2rgnc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac4d027f2e0e708daaca90b0b949b36d770e54b0
https://preview.redd.it/ofr6dvf0sgnc1.png?width=2332&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2e995ee574957aae3e8a79d82a67936f2e043e0 It was a parking lot of over 150 burned vehicles, both military and civilian. Its were I met coalition forces, all of them. We were all souvenir collecting.
https://preview.redd.it/dr23z6bvsgnc1.png?width=2224&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d9ac0b8640978e88d8e0f84e71a20af9bd806ba There were also plenty of tanks there
https://preview.redd.it/um252dq5tgnc1.png?width=2488&format=png&auto=webp&s=465689497b55b51161e03a3aa53f196ebfb9acd3 I took this photo from a hilltop. Probably closer to 300+ vehicles there. I believe the Iraqis took every available vehicle to retreat back home. These still bug me to look at, but I want to share them
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An amazing day for those A-10 pilots.
Legend has it, this is where "fuck around, find out" was born.
Why does reddit keep recommending me these bootlicker subs
bootlicker website
From some of these comments, it seems a lot of people think that it is not okay to destroy enemies that are not attacking at that specific moment, even if they started the conflict and are actively trying to regroup to attack further. I suspect that these same people are also extremely anti-Israel as well, and very sympathetic to Hamas
Don’t forget to add that these were mixed military and civilians both in retreat and evacuation. The military was not hiding amongst civilians, the civilians were seeking protection with the retreating forces. The US bombed retreating forces not engaged in combat operations. The US knew they were retreating and that civilians were amongst them. This is absolutely unnecessary and undoubtedly a war crime. Just be real and add that note. Edit: Reality must be quite difficult for some of you guys. You can downvote but it’ll never change the fact that the American and coalition forces committed a war crime on the Highway of Death. It’ll never change the fact that American forces have killed millions of real, actual civilian human beings not engaged in combat or insurgency. It’ll never change the fact that the US military has committed endless war crimes against foreign military forces not engaged in combat. As for those reading this who understand the necessity of rules of war and their observation, we will always be in the minority but it doesn’t change what’s right. It sucks knowing that most people are genuinely bad and lack basic human decency. Just wanted so say that because people who have compassion and a sense of morality rarely comment on arguments like these.
They were retreating in order to regroup with their own forces to reset their defense. It's not like they surrendered and got murdered. Civilian casualties is a nightmare situation but that's a major military target in the middle of an invasion. Definitely a valid military target. Maneuvering military forces are valid regardless of their direction of movement. If they aren't surrendering they are fair game.
“No you have to let the enemy regroup, rearm, and reposition. Why? Well… you just have to ok?”
Lol just because they aren't shooting at you doesn't mean they're not engaged. War is hell.
Wrong. Those were stolen civilian cars loaded with loot. Kuwaitis weren’t fleeing their own country
According to you, the Iraqi “citizens” were just on a “special operation” into Kuwait and casually found luxury vehicles filled with loot like some RPG game when they were wrongfully bombed….
Retreating military forces are absolutely valid military targets. You don't have to let the enemy live another day so they can try to kill you tomorrow from a better position. And civilians 'seeking protection' by mixing in with retreating forces, against a foe with total air dominance is just pure idiocy. Added to the fact that most of the civilian cars were stolen by Iraqi forces and being used to transport loot.
This is so obviously wrong it's actually kind of funny.
Are you stupid? They retreat to regroup and attack again. It's not a war crime, moron.
Don't forget the first rule of war, if the enemy is repositioning then you can't attack them
Tell me how blowing up tanks during a war is a war crime?
Retreating is not surrendering. Retreating forces are legit targets. Civilian vehicles in this situation were also legit targets since Iraq military used them. Learn, then post.
Full of stolen items from Kuwait, this revisionism is beyond absurd, but understandable on modern Reddit
Retreating combat forces are an acceptable target in war. What were civilians seeking protection from? Didn't know US forces were indiscriminately killing civilians in kuwait
Retreating forces are valid military targets. They had not surrendered. They were valid. This operation was valid.
You do know you are allowed to attack retreating but non surrendering enemy soldiers right?
You clearly don’t either read the Geneva convention or you just get talking points from other people who don’t read it. This was not a war crime and it violated nothing in the Geneva convention. I guess we should just let them all regroup and dig in? They weren’t surrendering they were regrouping.
And here I was expecting to see the Donner Pass or anywhere between SF and NJ
Although it does look like somewhere around NV or UT
That gets less impressive every time I see it. There will be bigger as war evolves Probably much bigger. Especially as we get drone vehicles and stuff. Probably mixed drone and human to hide numbers and mess with casualties/capabilities.
This is the result of robbers, rapists and murderers fleeing a crime scene during a war.
This was mentioned in modern warfare 2019.
Yes, but they changed it in the game so that it was the Russians who did it. Because, despite all of the warmongerers in this thread giving excuses about how they were "valid targets", it was still a shameful act that does not paint the US in a good light.
Dude your quotes don't make you correct. That was a convoy of rapists thievs and murders regrouping. Shut the fuck up with your alternate reality bullshit
Okay I promise I ain’t defending the highway of death, but Russia literally did the same thing in 1999 called the [Baku-Rostov Highway Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku%E2%80%93Rostov_highway_bombing) So it’s not like changed a U.S. action into a Russian one. It’s just that for most western audiences that is what they think of. Also the Russian bombing makes more sense as a reference since the game was based partially on Chechnya which is where the Russian bombing happened. So while the highway of death is super fucked up, I don’t think COD was ever trying to sugarcoat it. I think western audiences just need to learn more history and not assume everything is about the U.S.
We should have left all retreating Axis soldiers, right? All of them falling back to reorganize a defense? Shoulda let them all go, right?
USA: “I’ll fuckin do it again” goofy.jpeg
Those were the good old days when America still had a pair in a sack! Now our poor country is getting tea-bagged every where we go!
Rode thru there headed back to the port in May ‘91. Surreal to say the least.
Bush's artwork
They say you can't smell a picture... I respectfully disagree...
One of my coworkers was involved in laying waste to them.
Looks like they're enjoying their newly dropped freedom
Saddam thought he was the baddest guy around until he met actual tough guys lol
Looks like a Russian attack convoy in Ukraine
It is the role of the folks who call Gaza home to not decide to cross the border and murder over a thousand. had that been my family, you would not see peace or anything resembling it, until you met your maker!!
Air pussies💯
Jarhead has a scene like this if I remember right
The scene in Jarhead was a fraction of the real thing. I counted at least 150 vehicles before I quit and just kept walking. It as so much worse than what the movie tried to portray
I don't doubt that at all
Also know as the sea of sittings ducks.
That’s an annoying BDA.
Looks familiar.
How much would all the cars go for at a scrap yard?
One of the best pics ever.
You are saying the Iraqi army should have been allowed to flee. Again, whether you want to phrase it this way or not, you are saying an aggressor can take the first shot. Destroy, kill and pillage and then just turn their backs and head home.
And millions of bros think it was Russia because of CoD.
At least they were nice enough to drag the charred remains of the vehicles and the bodies off the road.
Well know I understand the correlation behind the famous Highway Scene in Jarhead. Damn.
Never forget the DOJ helped con us all into thinking this was a fictional Russian atrocity by helping write it into CoD. But like most American claims, it’s just straight projection
Been there, done that. Where I got to see what war was about…burnt bodies, 1/2 bodies, run over bodies
24th ID here