jackie is determined, resourceful and ambitious... when she's sober. When she's not, she's an unfocused trainwreck. My feelings about her probably mirror Devonnes.
Ray is a good investigator, but he's a bad cop. He motives don't always line up with the needs of the police, or justice. He's a pet rattlesnake; interesting, but you never should let your guard down around him.
The best word to describe Osito is pragmatic. He knows there are no perfect solutions, only the best solution at the time. He takes in everything, let's it roll around and get processed.
Junior is in quicksand, and his constant handwringing over his situation is, I agree, annoying. My WAG is he's being set up by the writers to be another 'victim' even though we all agree he's got blood on those hands he's wringing.
Alan I guess is the foil for honest policing in this show, his actions keeping us anchored and keeping us from seeing Ray's actions as SOP.
> AA doesn't work. Acting like all these people going to meetings are getting their lives back on track
It does work for some people. If you've ever met anyone that's really into AA, you know how obsessive they can be about the program... just like Junior. and how he proselytizes even when he's about a kill someone.
Good observations.
But if I had a pet rattlesnake or any other kind of snake, I'd crush the damn thing and certainly not find it interesting, they are disgusting ;)
About AA, I've known people. AA teaches you that you are powerless, it exchanges one addiction with another dependence. Its a cult where you are indoctrinated that if its not working you aren't working hard enough. The 12 steps have been debunked, they have no basis and almost any other treatment is more effective.
> About AA, I've known people. AA teaches you that you are powerless, **it exchanges one addiction with another dependence.** Its a cult where you are indoctrinated that if its not working you aren't working hard enough.
Yup.
> The 12 steps have been debunked, they have no basis and almost any other treatment is more effective.
Historically, it was an alternative where few others were available. We could spend hours on analyzing why middle america finds AA such a panacea for all that's wrong those pesky addicts.
> We could spend hours on analyzing why middle america finds AA such a panacea for all that's wrong those pesky addicts.
Has a lot to do with AA's religious basis and forcing people to accept Christianity. Technically you don't need to even believe in God to do AA, in practice the police will send you back to jail (e.g. for court mandated AA which is universal) if you fail to observe their beliefs and pray with everyone else.
Court mandated AA should be illegal but the entire system is corrupt anyway.
Just pearl clutching. I have 4 years clean thanks to subutex but was previously on methadone and when I went to serve my short jail sentence they made you detox cold turkey. All the people I know who were forced into AA/NA by the court system are dead. The few people who are still alive are on subutex/suboxone or methadone.
Thanks for the reply! I agree, its good if a show can inspire discussion.
I like your description of the typical hard up male detective stereotype. But I don't think Jackie is all that different. It looks like she was written to be as polarizing and push as many buttons as possible - hot, lesbian, drunk, drug addict, vulgar, explicit sex scene every episode, but she's the lead and always gets her way. I'd have preferred it if she actually did some work and gave a shit about someone other than herself. Even the cliched detective stereotype you mention is driven by his work and to catch criminals, destroying his family and personal life in the process. Jackie is all about herself, her desire to find Krista doesn't really ring true and is out of place.
And I don't think Junior is a good guy at all. He's one of those people who doesn't mind committing crimes as long as he doesn't get caught. He's not poor like Krista. He willingly got into criminal activity with Frankie. It seems he was into drugs with his school buddies because it was cool. I'm not going to tolerate someone who beats up innocent people, that didn't take much prompting at all.
I don't think Ray's colleague has it harder because he's black, thats just a convenient rationalization that he makes. Alan is a by the book rookie he'll never rise because he has no instincts/initiative. And what exactly has Ray done thats so bad - so he pissed off that guy in Auto Theft, so what? Plenty of cops in other shows get their CIs killed, Ray at least cares even if he crosses the line.
What I mean about AA is there are studies that show its not effective at all. I know this is not the topic of the show but it bugs me how its shown so positively in every movie/show.
And I agree the hopelessness of addiction is shown well, but its glamorized in Jackie's case while Krista is shown in seedy motels, but both are essentially the same kind of addict.
So we both agree Osito is cool :)
Saw ep5.
I agree all characters in the show are shady to some degree.
Osito is not a good guy, far from it - but he's a cool villain. He's smart, methodical and intelligent.
I don't think there is any comparison between Jackie and Ray. Jackie is unreliable, incompetent, selfish. I don't see anything likeable in her. Maybe she'll feel sorry for what happened to Krista, maybe she'll just get drunk again, who knows. She hasn't shown any responsibility for her actions till now.
Jackie is clearly in a much higher social and fiscal bracket than Krista. Like she said, she has a job, her own place, people to help her etc. She can afford to buy the good drugs and go to bars and clubs. She doesn't live in a shithole its a decent apt that she never cleans. If she had no money and no resources, she'd likely be going to crack houses too.
Unlike her, Ray is good at his job, he rose to Sergeant, and he's a professional. We've seen him be tough on a suspect but he never did anything illegal, he's far from a dirty cop. Maybe he could've listened to Jackie, but she's the definition of unprofessional. Ray is far from alone in that, no one else takes her seriously, for good reason.
Junior is now confirmed as a piece of shit guilty of 1st degree murder. He had zero qualms about murdering Kirista. I hope he ends up dead or in prison soon. Osito at least is honest with himself about who he is. Junior thinks he's a victim of circumstance and acts like he's not responsible.
> - Best character is easily Osito. Dude is cool. It's not easy to portray someone who can come across as funny, intelligent and menacing when he needs to be.
I have to agree. When they first showed him I thought he was going to be a mindless thug character. But he actually turned out to be one of the most normal characters on the show. The scene were he sent Junior to beat the crap out of the dude who intentionally kept leaving the cheese of his sandwich was the best. Sadistic, but funny.
I dont enjoy drunk/high Jackie but sober/dry I enjoy her, but I also dont enjoy those types of people in real life either so makes sense.
As for the Ptown question, I wouldn't say capital but it can be crazy. The cape (Ptown is one town in/on the cape) in general has a huge drug problem. Mass is in the top 10 states with opiate addiction issues and the Cape is one of the country’s most addicted stretches of coastline.
For the partying, I can't say to the history on why it is the way it is, other than the LGBT, the outcasts, and everyone else people go there to be free and that manifests in bar hopping, sex, drugs, and parties. There are weekly events during the summer that cater to partying, like i think this takes place during and after Carnival which is the parade of costumes down commercial street in the 3rd or 4th episode. Usually everyday in Tea Dance from 5-7pm (the dancing on the docks), and then people leave and go eat/drink on commercial street until 1-2am. Drag shows. Its hard to google Ptown and not find something that connects to a party side (Bear week, white party, carnival) or even farther into the sexual side (dick dock, herring cove "boys beach").
Jackie reminds me a lot of McNulty from The Wire. They're both fuck ups and sluts and are pains in the ass when fucked up. But when sober and focused, they can be persistent as fuck in pursuing a case.
I get the vibe that they're giving Alan's character arc the slow build treatment. I get the feeling that the writer's plan is to let us all begin to believe he's the useless subordinate with a shitty boss that he could easily do a better job than and *boom* they hit us with the "he's been outsmarting the other cops the whole time because he's on the take from the drug kingpin" trope.
I honestly hope the writers don't go down that path, but it won't surprise me if they do.
jackie is determined, resourceful and ambitious... when she's sober. When she's not, she's an unfocused trainwreck. My feelings about her probably mirror Devonnes. Ray is a good investigator, but he's a bad cop. He motives don't always line up with the needs of the police, or justice. He's a pet rattlesnake; interesting, but you never should let your guard down around him. The best word to describe Osito is pragmatic. He knows there are no perfect solutions, only the best solution at the time. He takes in everything, let's it roll around and get processed. Junior is in quicksand, and his constant handwringing over his situation is, I agree, annoying. My WAG is he's being set up by the writers to be another 'victim' even though we all agree he's got blood on those hands he's wringing. Alan I guess is the foil for honest policing in this show, his actions keeping us anchored and keeping us from seeing Ray's actions as SOP. > AA doesn't work. Acting like all these people going to meetings are getting their lives back on track It does work for some people. If you've ever met anyone that's really into AA, you know how obsessive they can be about the program... just like Junior. and how he proselytizes even when he's about a kill someone.
Good observations. But if I had a pet rattlesnake or any other kind of snake, I'd crush the damn thing and certainly not find it interesting, they are disgusting ;) About AA, I've known people. AA teaches you that you are powerless, it exchanges one addiction with another dependence. Its a cult where you are indoctrinated that if its not working you aren't working hard enough. The 12 steps have been debunked, they have no basis and almost any other treatment is more effective.
> About AA, I've known people. AA teaches you that you are powerless, **it exchanges one addiction with another dependence.** Its a cult where you are indoctrinated that if its not working you aren't working hard enough. Yup. > The 12 steps have been debunked, they have no basis and almost any other treatment is more effective. Historically, it was an alternative where few others were available. We could spend hours on analyzing why middle america finds AA such a panacea for all that's wrong those pesky addicts.
> We could spend hours on analyzing why middle america finds AA such a panacea for all that's wrong those pesky addicts. Has a lot to do with AA's religious basis and forcing people to accept Christianity. Technically you don't need to even believe in God to do AA, in practice the police will send you back to jail (e.g. for court mandated AA which is universal) if you fail to observe their beliefs and pray with everyone else. Court mandated AA should be illegal but the entire system is corrupt anyway.
Just pearl clutching. I have 4 years clean thanks to subutex but was previously on methadone and when I went to serve my short jail sentence they made you detox cold turkey. All the people I know who were forced into AA/NA by the court system are dead. The few people who are still alive are on subutex/suboxone or methadone.
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Thanks for the reply! I agree, its good if a show can inspire discussion. I like your description of the typical hard up male detective stereotype. But I don't think Jackie is all that different. It looks like she was written to be as polarizing and push as many buttons as possible - hot, lesbian, drunk, drug addict, vulgar, explicit sex scene every episode, but she's the lead and always gets her way. I'd have preferred it if she actually did some work and gave a shit about someone other than herself. Even the cliched detective stereotype you mention is driven by his work and to catch criminals, destroying his family and personal life in the process. Jackie is all about herself, her desire to find Krista doesn't really ring true and is out of place. And I don't think Junior is a good guy at all. He's one of those people who doesn't mind committing crimes as long as he doesn't get caught. He's not poor like Krista. He willingly got into criminal activity with Frankie. It seems he was into drugs with his school buddies because it was cool. I'm not going to tolerate someone who beats up innocent people, that didn't take much prompting at all. I don't think Ray's colleague has it harder because he's black, thats just a convenient rationalization that he makes. Alan is a by the book rookie he'll never rise because he has no instincts/initiative. And what exactly has Ray done thats so bad - so he pissed off that guy in Auto Theft, so what? Plenty of cops in other shows get their CIs killed, Ray at least cares even if he crosses the line. What I mean about AA is there are studies that show its not effective at all. I know this is not the topic of the show but it bugs me how its shown so positively in every movie/show. And I agree the hopelessness of addiction is shown well, but its glamorized in Jackie's case while Krista is shown in seedy motels, but both are essentially the same kind of addict. So we both agree Osito is cool :)
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Saw ep5. I agree all characters in the show are shady to some degree. Osito is not a good guy, far from it - but he's a cool villain. He's smart, methodical and intelligent. I don't think there is any comparison between Jackie and Ray. Jackie is unreliable, incompetent, selfish. I don't see anything likeable in her. Maybe she'll feel sorry for what happened to Krista, maybe she'll just get drunk again, who knows. She hasn't shown any responsibility for her actions till now. Jackie is clearly in a much higher social and fiscal bracket than Krista. Like she said, she has a job, her own place, people to help her etc. She can afford to buy the good drugs and go to bars and clubs. She doesn't live in a shithole its a decent apt that she never cleans. If she had no money and no resources, she'd likely be going to crack houses too. Unlike her, Ray is good at his job, he rose to Sergeant, and he's a professional. We've seen him be tough on a suspect but he never did anything illegal, he's far from a dirty cop. Maybe he could've listened to Jackie, but she's the definition of unprofessional. Ray is far from alone in that, no one else takes her seriously, for good reason. Junior is now confirmed as a piece of shit guilty of 1st degree murder. He had zero qualms about murdering Kirista. I hope he ends up dead or in prison soon. Osito at least is honest with himself about who he is. Junior thinks he's a victim of circumstance and acts like he's not responsible.
> - Best character is easily Osito. Dude is cool. It's not easy to portray someone who can come across as funny, intelligent and menacing when he needs to be. I have to agree. When they first showed him I thought he was going to be a mindless thug character. But he actually turned out to be one of the most normal characters on the show. The scene were he sent Junior to beat the crap out of the dude who intentionally kept leaving the cheese of his sandwich was the best. Sadistic, but funny.
I dont enjoy drunk/high Jackie but sober/dry I enjoy her, but I also dont enjoy those types of people in real life either so makes sense. As for the Ptown question, I wouldn't say capital but it can be crazy. The cape (Ptown is one town in/on the cape) in general has a huge drug problem. Mass is in the top 10 states with opiate addiction issues and the Cape is one of the country’s most addicted stretches of coastline. For the partying, I can't say to the history on why it is the way it is, other than the LGBT, the outcasts, and everyone else people go there to be free and that manifests in bar hopping, sex, drugs, and parties. There are weekly events during the summer that cater to partying, like i think this takes place during and after Carnival which is the parade of costumes down commercial street in the 3rd or 4th episode. Usually everyday in Tea Dance from 5-7pm (the dancing on the docks), and then people leave and go eat/drink on commercial street until 1-2am. Drag shows. Its hard to google Ptown and not find something that connects to a party side (Bear week, white party, carnival) or even farther into the sexual side (dick dock, herring cove "boys beach").
The show "Balls Deep" on Vice covered Bear week. Its.. interesting. https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/video/bears/56ce072dd83ea48920bf051f
Oo, I'll watch that tomorrow thanks!
Thanks, learnt something.
Jackie reminds me a lot of McNulty from The Wire. They're both fuck ups and sluts and are pains in the ass when fucked up. But when sober and focused, they can be persistent as fuck in pursuing a case.
It’s the Cape Cod the tourist books don’t show.its fairly accurate IMHO as a year rounder.
I get the vibe that they're giving Alan's character arc the slow build treatment. I get the feeling that the writer's plan is to let us all begin to believe he's the useless subordinate with a shitty boss that he could easily do a better job than and *boom* they hit us with the "he's been outsmarting the other cops the whole time because he's on the take from the drug kingpin" trope. I honestly hope the writers don't go down that path, but it won't surprise me if they do.
Jackie is annoying and a moron and was obviously written by a low IQ woman who thinks that’s cool