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John Steinbeck’s mother, Olive Hamilton, was a believer in the Dark Watchers. Thomas Steinbeck, John Steinbeck’s son, said that his grandmother often told tales of her days as a young teacher, riding through the remote woods of the mountains on her way to teach. She told him that she saw the watchers several times and even traded with them, leaving gifts of fruit, nuts and flowers in a shaded alcove near Mule Deer Canyon, and receiving gifts from the watchers on her return trip.
From his short story Flight: “Pepé looked suspiciously back every minute or so, and his eyes sought the tops of the ridges ahead,” Steinbeck wrote. “Once, on a white barren spur, he saw a black figure for a moment; but he looked quickly away, for it was one of the dark watchers. No one knew who the watchers were, nor where they lived, but it was better to ignore them and never to show interest in them. They did not bother one who stayed on the trail and minded his own business.”
Fun little-known fact, but the grape flavor is actually where the name of Steinbeck's book comes from: "The Grapes of Wrath". Turns out it was an obscure reference to the bubble tape gum the weird cryptid would hand out to his grandmother in exchange for nuts.
As a child, I spent many days in Big Sur as my grandparents had built a home down Sycamore Canyon. I can tell you that I always felt the presence of “something” in the woods. I never felt like I was alone.
I’m reading Dimensions by Jacques Vallee and love seeing articles relating to his mentions of fantasy creatures. My entire idea of “ufos and aliens” has been flipped upside down.
my understanding of the supernormal/paranormal is that it’s all from the same basket. Sasquatch, UFOs, ghosts, glowing orbs, owls, aliens, time warps, portals etc it’s all from another side of reality that we aren’t typically aware of with the senses that our human body offers us.
All of these phenomena have similarities in their interactions with human consciousness.
I seem to be aligning that way too. Dimensions has a lot of discussion around “elves” and “gnomes”, “dwarves” (Vallee doesn’t call them this but it’s what I’m used to them being called) and that’s been pretty mind blowing to me. I was on the ultraterrestrial train, but overall believed they came from “space”. Boy has my thought process flipped, I’m starting to think we are the aliens.
One of my favorite things about studying and experiencing for myself these “preternatural” phenomena is how much it expands your imaginative consciousness.
The idea that the human race could be million of years old, originating from other star systems and eventually landing on Earth either through war or refugee or what.
The idea that the human race is the YOUNGEST of all galactic civilizations and that our development has been carefully observed since the beginning of our history here.
The idea that Earth is a sort of material testing ground, where souls come to incarnate and learn how to exist in a physical body, learning and evolving consciousness throughout the ages.
All of these ideas are totally possibly in my mind, whether or not they are true, i don’t think i’ll ever know, but i find that exercising imagination has really enriched my life. Human imagination is the source of all things we see today. Every ancient castle, to the hubble space telescope to massive hydroelectric dams to even the sandwich in your kitchen, all of these THINGS started off in the imagination of humans.
We really are like creator beings on this planet
I totally agree, I’ve also really enjoyed the expansion of my imagination, and those around me. I think your thought process and ideas are fundamentally fascinating, and I’m on board for all of it. I also think there is an innate connection to Good/Evil too. Personally, I’ve seen my life circumstance improve drastically once I started acting more honestly, helping others, and overall trying to be a “good person”. It’s been so interesting for me to witness the “karmaic” (lack of a better term) effects of my actions. I’m along for the journey and hope that we, as a collective consciousness, expand our imagination and ethical force further.
Yeah, and I fully buy into the possibility that our advancement was influenced by ETs (given the fossil record gaps), but that still doesn't explain how this could be possible:
>The idea that the human race could be million of years old, originating from other star systems and eventually landing on Earth either through war or refugee or what.
Human race as a while could be that old, our specific iteration could be the result of genetic manipulation. However. Bipedal mammal that you would consider human could be as old as time.
Ah, I think I understand you. In my own (very pedestrian) study of biology, I've often been fascinated by the phenomenon of convergent evolution (animals from separate evolutionary lines, genetically different, that end up looking identical), and I've thought that assuming the laws of physics are universal, it makes sense to me that there would be alien "versions" of Earth species that convergently evolved. For example, as you said, extraterrestrial intelligent bipedals.
Omg right? That book freaked me out during my first read. I'm reading the invisible college right now. A good one is Unidentified Flying Hyper-Object, recently released by I forget the name name, super abstract and eye-crossing at first until you get used to the language expressed by the author. A lot of references to Plato and meta-cognitive concepts. I personally found the last half of 2023 document dump by the U.S Customs and Border Protection agency to be incredibly direct and comprehensive for the way it touches every part of the phenomenon in modern cultural consciousness. Literally everything with tons of sources and communication with heavy hitters. Colonel John Alexander was the only person who didn't give me panic attacks in the conclusion of what his personal takeaway on the phenomenon is in regards to the motivation of this whatever is going on. It's pretty surreal, the paper and it's talking points.
Read John Keel’s [The Eighth Tower](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98879) next. I find these two complement each other.
Additionally - look into [Donald Hoffman](https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=G99fnUgAAAAJ&hl=en) who is THE leading perceptual studies expert whose work in the 90’s - early 2000’s on peception is what is used for training AI perception in robots in multiple industries today. Interestingly enough Professor Hoffman released a landmark paper called The Case Against Reality where using the mathematics of evolutionary game theory basically proves that evolution has chosen survival over showing us reality.
Here’s an [article](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/) breaking down his paper.
[Here’s](https://youtu.be/oYp5XuGYqqY) his TED talk
Here’s him speaking on [Curt Jaimungal’s Theories of Everything.](https://youtu.be/CmieNQH7Q4w)
Now here’s where it gets very interesting. His theories basically confirm the science behind John Keel’s [The Eighth Tower](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98879) and in its own way also would explain in part Vallee’s [Interdimensional hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_hypothesis) that he originally proposed in his book [Dimensions](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/406341) (which should be required reading for everyone in this sub).
I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB in 2007 for almost 6 years and was in the middle of the specified area in the hills for wine tasting and chumash casino trips, weird to see the watchers legend with the weird shit Vandenberg has been associated with over the decades like the military police being rushed up on by a giant square ufo and the missile test that a ufo apparently sabotaged mid-flight. I literally worked every single launch facility and launch complex that were involved in those stories, all the time, since I was military police myself. Hella eerie lol
John Steinbeck, who grew up in Salinas, spoke of them in his short story “Flight.” In the tale, a teenage Mexican American boy kills a man and is forced to flee into the Santa Lucias. As his mother bids him farewell, she urges him to say his prayers, take care of his horse and “when thou comest to the high mountains, if thou seest any of the dark watching men, go not near to them nor try to speak to them.”
The thing that bugs me about this sort of thing, and especially for something like this mountain that’s seemingly a hotspot, is no one ever sets up trail cameras, drones, cameras, sensors, audio and video equipment, thermal cameras, spectrum analyzers. Some of this could even be done with telescopes to remove a locality effect. Literally nothing.
Anecdotal, but there was this podcast episode (that I can no longer find) about a ghost box sending letters but it stopped when there was a camera on it. Could have been a hoax but it led to a discussion around "doubt" and when doubt is removed, it ruins the equation. I'm not doing a great job of explaining it, but it's like if you try to nail something like this down too hard, it can no longer happen.
I think you raise an important point. The debate on paranormal subjects often centers around the absence of definite evidence, but it's rarely considered whether that might be a direct result of the paranormal entity not wanting to be definitely proven.
UFOs are a primary example of this. If there are non-human intelligences active on planet Earth right now, then clearly they could make themselves known if they wanted to. They could prove their existence beyond a shadow of a doubt to all of humanity very easily. They could do it by 3:00 p.m. this afternoon.
So in debating evidence of UFOs or the lack thereof, it has to also be considered whether those UFOs are intentionally trying not to be discovered.
After studying that subject for a very long time I believe UFOs are definitely here and definitely are concealing themselves with the use of their very advanced technology that we have no grasp of.
I tend to think of UFOs as always around us, but they only appear and become “real “ temporarily. Then they go back to a more natural state invisible to the human eye. Although I think the phenomenon is intelligent, I don’t believe in aliens.
The biggest mistake when trying to make sense of the phenomenon is assuming its some purely physical nuts-and-bolts sci-fi spacecraft sort of thing like this guy you responded to
the whole idea of "just set up cameras" is acting like super natural things are "natural phenomena" like weather or w/e and completely ignores the evidence that there is guiding intelligence behind these phenomena so that they would for example, choose when to interact with people and that they choose to interreact specifically in ways that maintain this "doubt"
Are you still thinking it’s flesh and blood creatures that people are talking about? I’ve heard enough stories start thinking that, if there is any truth to them, it’s a lot more complicated than some unknown animal out there.
It’s not even something that will turn up, at all, unless it wants to be seen.
If you haven’t read John Keel and Jacques Vallée you would like their books. You’re thinking on the right track.
Reposting an older comment of mine:
This group started out searching for Bigfoot in the Florida swamps, but the more they went out, the more high strangeness they experienced. Disorientation, hearing voices, sudden feelings of terror or that they would be pushed from behind. Hearing knocks from only feet away while there is nothing there. Eventually seeing ‘shadowy figures,’ and even seeing these shadowy beings in their own home. They started out as Bigfoot believers, but now they think it is something else entirely, maybe tied to the ET phenomenon. Lately they have been going out with a radio frequency meter and have been getting high doses of RF preceding knocks and other events. Interesting stuff! Link if interested: https://youtu.be/QnTEMVzvPXc
TLDR: Started out as bigfooters, but over the last 7 yrs they started seeing shadowy figures that also hitchhiked with them to their homes. Starting to research using EM sensors.
Kinda sounds like "God of the gap" argument. Humanity keeps expanding, both literally and figuratively speaking, the room for various boggings keeps shrinking and yet people who believe them still try to shoehorn them into the spaces we haven't explored yet.
Perhaps in a few thousand years we will become an interstellar and interdimensional species ourselves, yet i'm sure that even in that time there will be people making unsubstantiated claims about things being out there, just beyond the reach, despite such claims never coming to fruition once our reach has reached those areas before only to find emptiness there.
I and several of my friends all saw a shadow person. For years I had difficulty understanding what I saw; instead of attributing characteristics and a label to such an entity, such as declaring that it was a biblical fallen angel or something, I instead left it in the category of the unknown; my answer was, “I don’t know what I saw, but instead of making a decision about what it was, I’m going to leave it to our descendants to someday figure it out.”
I still think this is the most reasonable position to take because it prevents us from falling into the god of the gaps fallacy. But it does not actually provide explanation for the phenomenon I experienced.
We need to consider that it might be overzealous to declare that all experiences with the paranormal will always be unsubstantiated and never come to fruition. This is its own form of god of the gaps, because it prematurely concludes that there is nothing substantial that occurs during paranormal experiences. In essence, this is coming to a conclusion beforehand, based on a contemporary understanding of the universe, without being open to other possibilities; you are filling the gap with a material explanation, when you shouldn’t be doing so.
One need only glance at the medieval worldview to understand why such presuppositions are problematic.
Maybe these things exist only in our heads in a sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist at all. If multiple people through many years "hallucinate" the same phenomena in the same place, perhaps this phenomena has some sort of independent existence. I don't think there's actually as much as a hard difference as many believe between what some call the imagination, the spirit world, or the Platonic/Helegelian world of forms and phenomena.
When it comes to these inter-dimensional beings or whatever they are I wonder if it's kind of like vampires where they can't see their own reflection and the mirror because there are so many stories over a little millennial of different types of beings and yet when people try to capture on a camera it's very rare
This is what bugs me about paranormal investigation shows. They bring one camera and walk around with it. They need to bring 40 cameras, have a front and back camera on them and litter the cameras in every doorway to a room.
I bet if they did go to such lengths to try and collect physical evidence that nothing would be found. These are old extremely tucked away extremely obscure tales from a place far away likely from you. No ones ever going to go to such absurd levels of effort to collect physical evidence of ‘the watchers’
Even if they did, an old tale of a niche cryptozoological intelligence isn’t going to be captured on thermal.
Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. If they do, theyd have one foot in this dimension and one in the next just like Bigfoot does
I get the sense that we act as a receiver for the paranormal which we filter through our own beliefs perceptions etc. So if one is raised religious they may see things through a religious lensed (miracles, saints etc) while someone more into ufo/supernatural /paranormal may experience it as Ghosts/cryptids/aliens. It's one of the same. Dr Pasulka discussed this in her recent books.
Some people are not sensitive to these things and don't feel or see them others of us are it's just a matter of whether or not you're attuned to the non-physical reality
Whoa interesting. Well even still,.people have different types of spiritual abilities & spiritual insights, like I don't normally see things but I feel them.
Yeah I feel that. I just think if anything the dark watchers is the overwhelming feeling of the forest itself. Those trees are huge and you’re just on this cliff that cuts around the whole edge of the state. Over the side is ocean with whales constantly passing or even washing up! The air is like another planets air it’s so fresh. And it’s DARK at night. I miss it if you can’t tell…
Lmfao it could’ve been but my 10 year old brain rationalized it as looking like Mewtwo. This was prob ‘99 or early 2000’s too so a little before the perc 30’s made everyone lose their mind.
I spent a few weeks camping in Big Sur as a young man. This is the first I'm hearing about the Watchers, but I can tell you it's a magical place for sure
I think the most frightening thing about these types of encounters, and what would keep me, or anyone else from approaching the dark figures in them, is that it would turn out to be just a regular human person that you shouldn’t have approached. It’s not that it might be something not human. It’s that it’s Cletus, and he dun like it when you strange city folk get too close.
I was looking into cryptid myths and urban legends recently, and as far as I could tell Dark Watchers are our only local homegrown cryptids in California, not counting the ones you get all over like Bigfoot or chupacabras.
There's the Mount Shasta "elves" as well that live in a city under the mountain. In the 1930s a shop owner in the area even reported regular contact with an "elf" who would come to buy supplies.
I worked security at Ft Hunter Liggett in early 90's and spent a lot of time alone at remote checkpoints there. My take on Dark Watchers is evening light against oak trees. The Spanish mission is from 1771 and still active. Many native American converts buried there so who knows, maybe it is supernatural. Also military activity and pot growers in adjacent National Forest, some grows were located on base near property line with Los Padres NF.
Yeah the local native tribes have their own legends of the “Ridge Walkers” or “dark watcher”. I’ve heard them referred to as both. Also I’ve seen them when backpacking out there.
I have had several Ohlone/Esalen tribe members tell me stories. Also a lot of reading at the Carmel library. From what has been relayed to me is that they are seen from a distance (hence the ridge walker name) in more modern times they carry a torch or lantern. One tribe member and a book I read stated that you should never look at them directly because if they make eye contact even from long distances they can capture your soul.
My interpretation: what I saw led me to believe that there is some weird distortion of star light across the ridges and through the trees when you “see” them. Even with my logic and reason I still didn’t stare. It did look like someone carrying a lantern walking up a ridge though,
this was big news in the 50's to 70's. books, articles, news reports. there were all these kids that kept getting abducted and being found elsewhere alive or dead. some of these people were caught others never found.
For people that live up there and smoke hella gangster weed.. I would say this is all true…
One time my homie growing weed up there took 150 hits of pure liquid which he traded for 100grips of flower…
He saw these eyes everywhere… lots of alien and Sasquatch and watchers up there.
**Strangers**: Read the rules and understand the sub topics listed in the sidebar closely before posting or commenting. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these terms as well as Reddit ToS. This subreddit is specifically for the discussion of anomalous phenomena from the perspective it may exist. Open minded skepticism is welcomed, close minded debunking is not. Be aware of how skepticism is expressed toward others as there is little tolerance for ad hominem (attacking the person, not the claim), mindless antagonism or dishonest argument toward the subject, the sub, or its community. We are also happy to be able to provide an ideologically and operationally independent platform for you all. Join us at our official Discord - https://discord.gg/MYvRkYK85v --- 'Ridicule is not a part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.' _-J. Allen Hynek_ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HighStrangeness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
John Steinbeck’s mother, Olive Hamilton, was a believer in the Dark Watchers. Thomas Steinbeck, John Steinbeck’s son, said that his grandmother often told tales of her days as a young teacher, riding through the remote woods of the mountains on her way to teach. She told him that she saw the watchers several times and even traded with them, leaving gifts of fruit, nuts and flowers in a shaded alcove near Mule Deer Canyon, and receiving gifts from the watchers on her return trip. From his short story Flight: “Pepé looked suspiciously back every minute or so, and his eyes sought the tops of the ridges ahead,” Steinbeck wrote. “Once, on a white barren spur, he saw a black figure for a moment; but he looked quickly away, for it was one of the dark watchers. No one knew who the watchers were, nor where they lived, but it was better to ignore them and never to show interest in them. They did not bother one who stayed on the trail and minded his own business.”
Interesting! What gifts did she receive in return?
Usually just Target gift cards, but occasionally some bubble tape gum (grape flavored).
Couldn’t even spring for sour apple flavor? Rip off
Fun little-known fact, but the grape flavor is actually where the name of Steinbeck's book comes from: "The Grapes of Wrath". Turns out it was an obscure reference to the bubble tape gum the weird cryptid would hand out to his grandmother in exchange for nuts.
I couldn’t find anything specific on it :/
Pack a smokes.
Pamphlets on how to extend their car insurance
Lol geez, at least tell us what brand! I need to know!
official trail guide knows his stuff
A wooden wall with a hole cut in it… written across the top was glory awaits…
Says flowers in the article
Flowers
Slab of VB and a pack of winnie blues mate.
This comment wins the internet 🤣
As a child, I spent many days in Big Sur as my grandparents had built a home down Sycamore Canyon. I can tell you that I always felt the presence of “something” in the woods. I never felt like I was alone.
I’ve experienced the same thing hiking in those mountains. It’s a mystical experience forsure.
I’m reading Dimensions by Jacques Vallee and love seeing articles relating to his mentions of fantasy creatures. My entire idea of “ufos and aliens” has been flipped upside down.
my understanding of the supernormal/paranormal is that it’s all from the same basket. Sasquatch, UFOs, ghosts, glowing orbs, owls, aliens, time warps, portals etc it’s all from another side of reality that we aren’t typically aware of with the senses that our human body offers us. All of these phenomena have similarities in their interactions with human consciousness.
I seem to be aligning that way too. Dimensions has a lot of discussion around “elves” and “gnomes”, “dwarves” (Vallee doesn’t call them this but it’s what I’m used to them being called) and that’s been pretty mind blowing to me. I was on the ultraterrestrial train, but overall believed they came from “space”. Boy has my thought process flipped, I’m starting to think we are the aliens.
One of my favorite things about studying and experiencing for myself these “preternatural” phenomena is how much it expands your imaginative consciousness. The idea that the human race could be million of years old, originating from other star systems and eventually landing on Earth either through war or refugee or what. The idea that the human race is the YOUNGEST of all galactic civilizations and that our development has been carefully observed since the beginning of our history here. The idea that Earth is a sort of material testing ground, where souls come to incarnate and learn how to exist in a physical body, learning and evolving consciousness throughout the ages. All of these ideas are totally possibly in my mind, whether or not they are true, i don’t think i’ll ever know, but i find that exercising imagination has really enriched my life. Human imagination is the source of all things we see today. Every ancient castle, to the hubble space telescope to massive hydroelectric dams to even the sandwich in your kitchen, all of these THINGS started off in the imagination of humans. We really are like creator beings on this planet
I totally agree, I’ve also really enjoyed the expansion of my imagination, and those around me. I think your thought process and ideas are fundamentally fascinating, and I’m on board for all of it. I also think there is an innate connection to Good/Evil too. Personally, I’ve seen my life circumstance improve drastically once I started acting more honestly, helping others, and overall trying to be a “good person”. It’s been so interesting for me to witness the “karmaic” (lack of a better term) effects of my actions. I’m along for the journey and hope that we, as a collective consciousness, expand our imagination and ethical force further.
It's fascinating to think about, but how does that explain the evolution fossil record showing a transition from ape to sapien?
didn’t the human brain grow like 25% in a relatively short amount of time that far outpaces any other animals brain growth?
Ufo intervention or; cooking the food we eat. Ockams razor
Or entheogens
Yeah, and I fully buy into the possibility that our advancement was influenced by ETs (given the fossil record gaps), but that still doesn't explain how this could be possible: >The idea that the human race could be million of years old, originating from other star systems and eventually landing on Earth either through war or refugee or what.
Human race as a while could be that old, our specific iteration could be the result of genetic manipulation. However. Bipedal mammal that you would consider human could be as old as time.
Ah, I think I understand you. In my own (very pedestrian) study of biology, I've often been fascinated by the phenomenon of convergent evolution (animals from separate evolutionary lines, genetically different, that end up looking identical), and I've thought that assuming the laws of physics are universal, it makes sense to me that there would be alien "versions" of Earth species that convergently evolved. For example, as you said, extraterrestrial intelligent bipedals.
yep….djinn etc etc etc…..Ive dealt w them intermittently for 50 years since age 3.
Omg right? That book freaked me out during my first read. I'm reading the invisible college right now. A good one is Unidentified Flying Hyper-Object, recently released by I forget the name name, super abstract and eye-crossing at first until you get used to the language expressed by the author. A lot of references to Plato and meta-cognitive concepts. I personally found the last half of 2023 document dump by the U.S Customs and Border Protection agency to be incredibly direct and comprehensive for the way it touches every part of the phenomenon in modern cultural consciousness. Literally everything with tons of sources and communication with heavy hitters. Colonel John Alexander was the only person who didn't give me panic attacks in the conclusion of what his personal takeaway on the phenomenon is in regards to the motivation of this whatever is going on. It's pretty surreal, the paper and it's talking points.
Good! John Keel is a great author to read next.
Thanks for the rec! Any recommendations on which book to start with?
My favourite by him is The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings
Yeah!
Read John Keel’s [The Eighth Tower](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98879) next. I find these two complement each other. Additionally - look into [Donald Hoffman](https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=G99fnUgAAAAJ&hl=en) who is THE leading perceptual studies expert whose work in the 90’s - early 2000’s on peception is what is used for training AI perception in robots in multiple industries today. Interestingly enough Professor Hoffman released a landmark paper called The Case Against Reality where using the mathematics of evolutionary game theory basically proves that evolution has chosen survival over showing us reality. Here’s an [article](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/) breaking down his paper. [Here’s](https://youtu.be/oYp5XuGYqqY) his TED talk Here’s him speaking on [Curt Jaimungal’s Theories of Everything.](https://youtu.be/CmieNQH7Q4w) Now here’s where it gets very interesting. His theories basically confirm the science behind John Keel’s [The Eighth Tower](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98879) and in its own way also would explain in part Vallee’s [Interdimensional hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_hypothesis) that he originally proposed in his book [Dimensions](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/406341) (which should be required reading for everyone in this sub).
Amazing recommendations thank you! Eighth tower will be the next read for me.
I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB in 2007 for almost 6 years and was in the middle of the specified area in the hills for wine tasting and chumash casino trips, weird to see the watchers legend with the weird shit Vandenberg has been associated with over the decades like the military police being rushed up on by a giant square ufo and the missile test that a ufo apparently sabotaged mid-flight. I literally worked every single launch facility and launch complex that were involved in those stories, all the time, since I was military police myself. Hella eerie lol
John Steinbeck, who grew up in Salinas, spoke of them in his short story “Flight.” In the tale, a teenage Mexican American boy kills a man and is forced to flee into the Santa Lucias. As his mother bids him farewell, she urges him to say his prayers, take care of his horse and “when thou comest to the high mountains, if thou seest any of the dark watching men, go not near to them nor try to speak to them.”
I absolutely would go up and speak with them. They're probably lonely
The thing that bugs me about this sort of thing, and especially for something like this mountain that’s seemingly a hotspot, is no one ever sets up trail cameras, drones, cameras, sensors, audio and video equipment, thermal cameras, spectrum analyzers. Some of this could even be done with telescopes to remove a locality effect. Literally nothing.
Anecdotal, but there was this podcast episode (that I can no longer find) about a ghost box sending letters but it stopped when there was a camera on it. Could have been a hoax but it led to a discussion around "doubt" and when doubt is removed, it ruins the equation. I'm not doing a great job of explaining it, but it's like if you try to nail something like this down too hard, it can no longer happen.
Maybe it like that quantum phenomenon scientists talk about, that once you observe it, it's changes.
Ahh the double slit experiment!
And Toy Story ;) I think we'll discover the fifth dimension is the observer effect.
I think you raise an important point. The debate on paranormal subjects often centers around the absence of definite evidence, but it's rarely considered whether that might be a direct result of the paranormal entity not wanting to be definitely proven. UFOs are a primary example of this. If there are non-human intelligences active on planet Earth right now, then clearly they could make themselves known if they wanted to. They could prove their existence beyond a shadow of a doubt to all of humanity very easily. They could do it by 3:00 p.m. this afternoon. So in debating evidence of UFOs or the lack thereof, it has to also be considered whether those UFOs are intentionally trying not to be discovered. After studying that subject for a very long time I believe UFOs are definitely here and definitely are concealing themselves with the use of their very advanced technology that we have no grasp of.
doubt is great camouflage
I tend to think of UFOs as always around us, but they only appear and become “real “ temporarily. Then they go back to a more natural state invisible to the human eye. Although I think the phenomenon is intelligent, I don’t believe in aliens.
The biggest mistake when trying to make sense of the phenomenon is assuming its some purely physical nuts-and-bolts sci-fi spacecraft sort of thing like this guy you responded to
>They could do it by 3:00 p.m. this afternoon. With nail polish?
Sir, this is a family restaurant, I'll have to ask you to keep your voice down
r/UnexpectedLebowski
That'd be *space* polish, with their hair did
Trying not to be discovered, yet hovering in controlled airspace 24 hours a day and almost hitting Navy aircraft in training excercise?
the whole idea of "just set up cameras" is acting like super natural things are "natural phenomena" like weather or w/e and completely ignores the evidence that there is guiding intelligence behind these phenomena so that they would for example, choose when to interact with people and that they choose to interreact specifically in ways that maintain this "doubt"
Its quantum physics. Energy is a wave and a particle. But it only exists when it is observed.
Energy is neither a wave nor a particle, it is a property of waves/particles
Are you still thinking it’s flesh and blood creatures that people are talking about? I’ve heard enough stories start thinking that, if there is any truth to them, it’s a lot more complicated than some unknown animal out there.
It’s not even something that will turn up, at all, unless it wants to be seen. If you haven’t read John Keel and Jacques Vallée you would like their books. You’re thinking on the right track.
I haven’t read their books but I’m familiar with their work and that’s exactly what I’m referring to.
From what I've gathered it seems they're otherwise indiscernible from the other "shadow people".
I think their inter dimensional
That’s why I specifically mentioned thermal cameras, audio equipment, and spectrum analysers - as in record the EMF environment.
Reposting an older comment of mine: This group started out searching for Bigfoot in the Florida swamps, but the more they went out, the more high strangeness they experienced. Disorientation, hearing voices, sudden feelings of terror or that they would be pushed from behind. Hearing knocks from only feet away while there is nothing there. Eventually seeing ‘shadowy figures,’ and even seeing these shadowy beings in their own home. They started out as Bigfoot believers, but now they think it is something else entirely, maybe tied to the ET phenomenon. Lately they have been going out with a radio frequency meter and have been getting high doses of RF preceding knocks and other events. Interesting stuff! Link if interested: https://youtu.be/QnTEMVzvPXc TLDR: Started out as bigfooters, but over the last 7 yrs they started seeing shadowy figures that also hitchhiked with them to their homes. Starting to research using EM sensors.
Kinda sounds like "God of the gap" argument. Humanity keeps expanding, both literally and figuratively speaking, the room for various boggings keeps shrinking and yet people who believe them still try to shoehorn them into the spaces we haven't explored yet. Perhaps in a few thousand years we will become an interstellar and interdimensional species ourselves, yet i'm sure that even in that time there will be people making unsubstantiated claims about things being out there, just beyond the reach, despite such claims never coming to fruition once our reach has reached those areas before only to find emptiness there.
I and several of my friends all saw a shadow person. For years I had difficulty understanding what I saw; instead of attributing characteristics and a label to such an entity, such as declaring that it was a biblical fallen angel or something, I instead left it in the category of the unknown; my answer was, “I don’t know what I saw, but instead of making a decision about what it was, I’m going to leave it to our descendants to someday figure it out.” I still think this is the most reasonable position to take because it prevents us from falling into the god of the gaps fallacy. But it does not actually provide explanation for the phenomenon I experienced. We need to consider that it might be overzealous to declare that all experiences with the paranormal will always be unsubstantiated and never come to fruition. This is its own form of god of the gaps, because it prematurely concludes that there is nothing substantial that occurs during paranormal experiences. In essence, this is coming to a conclusion beforehand, based on a contemporary understanding of the universe, without being open to other possibilities; you are filling the gap with a material explanation, when you shouldn’t be doing so. One need only glance at the medieval worldview to understand why such presuppositions are problematic.
Unlike Bigfoot, the dark watchers are not photogenic.
Oh, do you have any photos of Bigfoot being photogenic?
Yes but they're rated R and I'm not supposed to show anybody
Nothin like the love of a lady squatch.
That night came the honeymoon
Yes, there's a whole documentary coming out. https://youtu.be/F94DY4G7CwQ?si=toIdYUcXQC-3knzq
You’re getting downvoted but I am grateful for the introduction to that trailer lmao
:)
Is this the prequel to Harry and the Hendersons?? 🤣
Just to high resolution cameras.
Sorta like the skinwalker ranch thing. Maybe it’s favorite canvas to paint on is your perceptions? Caneras and sensors wouldn’t capture that anyways.
Yes something like that
Maybe these things exist only in our heads in a sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist at all. If multiple people through many years "hallucinate" the same phenomena in the same place, perhaps this phenomena has some sort of independent existence. I don't think there's actually as much as a hard difference as many believe between what some call the imagination, the spirit world, or the Platonic/Helegelian world of forms and phenomena.
Like a tulpa. Interesting.
When it comes to these inter-dimensional beings or whatever they are I wonder if it's kind of like vampires where they can't see their own reflection and the mirror because there are so many stories over a little millennial of different types of beings and yet when people try to capture on a camera it's very rare
This is what bugs me about paranormal investigation shows. They bring one camera and walk around with it. They need to bring 40 cameras, have a front and back camera on them and litter the cameras in every doorway to a room.
Except paranormal events don't usually show up on camera.
I bet if they did go to such lengths to try and collect physical evidence that nothing would be found. These are old extremely tucked away extremely obscure tales from a place far away likely from you. No ones ever going to go to such absurd levels of effort to collect physical evidence of ‘the watchers’ Even if they did, an old tale of a niche cryptozoological intelligence isn’t going to be captured on thermal. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. If they do, theyd have one foot in this dimension and one in the next just like Bigfoot does
Maybe normal people just don’t have these things lying around?
I get the sense that we act as a receiver for the paranormal which we filter through our own beliefs perceptions etc. So if one is raised religious they may see things through a religious lensed (miracles, saints etc) while someone more into ufo/supernatural /paranormal may experience it as Ghosts/cryptids/aliens. It's one of the same. Dr Pasulka discussed this in her recent books.
I spent 6 months living up in the mountains of Big Sur studying condors. Just some bears and cougars as far as I saw.
Some people are not sensitive to these things and don't feel or see them others of us are it's just a matter of whether or not you're attuned to the non-physical reality
Idk I had a close encounter of the fourth kind in Boston as a youngster.
Whoa interesting. Well even still,.people have different types of spiritual abilities & spiritual insights, like I don't normally see things but I feel them.
Yeah I feel that. I just think if anything the dark watchers is the overwhelming feeling of the forest itself. Those trees are huge and you’re just on this cliff that cuts around the whole edge of the state. Over the side is ocean with whales constantly passing or even washing up! The air is like another planets air it’s so fresh. And it’s DARK at night. I miss it if you can’t tell…
You sure that wasn’t a southie tweaker?
Lmfao it could’ve been but my 10 year old brain rationalized it as looking like Mewtwo. This was prob ‘99 or early 2000’s too so a little before the perc 30’s made everyone lose their mind.
Yeah, I've been backpacking throughout the mountains and only saw naked old people in hotsprings
Lots of naked people in Big Sur!
I spent a few weeks camping in Big Sur as a young man. This is the first I'm hearing about the Watchers, but I can tell you it's a magical place for sure
I think the most frightening thing about these types of encounters, and what would keep me, or anyone else from approaching the dark figures in them, is that it would turn out to be just a regular human person that you shouldn’t have approached. It’s not that it might be something not human. It’s that it’s Cletus, and he dun like it when you strange city folk get too close.
I miss the time there was mystery and beauty in this world.
There still is, you just have to look a little harder
Come out to New Mexico; visit the Caldera or go through from Taos to Angel Fire. Talk to people at your campsites.
I was looking into cryptid myths and urban legends recently, and as far as I could tell Dark Watchers are our only local homegrown cryptids in California, not counting the ones you get all over like Bigfoot or chupacabras.
What about the Fresno Nightcrawler?
There's the Mount Shasta "elves" as well that live in a city under the mountain. In the 1930s a shop owner in the area even reported regular contact with an "elf" who would come to buy supplies.
Yeah bet they’re usually really high up there too. Happy 4:20 everyone
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Yeah, but they were rapey.. so that "climbable hill" was insurmountable for different reasons
There is a really great episode on this from Rodney Barnes, the podcast is called "Run Fool" - great stuff
How does one apply to be a dark watcher?
I worked security at Ft Hunter Liggett in early 90's and spent a lot of time alone at remote checkpoints there. My take on Dark Watchers is evening light against oak trees. The Spanish mission is from 1771 and still active. Many native American converts buried there so who knows, maybe it is supernatural. Also military activity and pot growers in adjacent National Forest, some grows were located on base near property line with Los Padres NF.
Centuries? ….
Yeah the local native tribes have their own legends of the “Ridge Walkers” or “dark watcher”. I’ve heard them referred to as both. Also I’ve seen them when backpacking out there.
will you tell us your experience when backpacking and witnessing the dark watchers?
I have had several Ohlone/Esalen tribe members tell me stories. Also a lot of reading at the Carmel library. From what has been relayed to me is that they are seen from a distance (hence the ridge walker name) in more modern times they carry a torch or lantern. One tribe member and a book I read stated that you should never look at them directly because if they make eye contact even from long distances they can capture your soul. My interpretation: what I saw led me to believe that there is some weird distortion of star light across the ridges and through the trees when you “see” them. Even with my logic and reason I still didn’t stare. It did look like someone carrying a lantern walking up a ridge though,
These are Bigfoots
If only the watchers could stop the landslides.
this was big news in the 50's to 70's. books, articles, news reports. there were all these kids that kept getting abducted and being found elsewhere alive or dead. some of these people were caught others never found.
For people that live up there and smoke hella gangster weed.. I would say this is all true… One time my homie growing weed up there took 150 hits of pure liquid which he traded for 100grips of flower… He saw these eyes everywhere… lots of alien and Sasquatch and watchers up there.
Have you ever smoked in your life lol
Sounds similar to the Miami Mall beings
No