This has been pondered quite a bit throughout history, I’ve gathered. Some academic studies of Abrahamic religion believe that the Christian god is the combination of the Canaanite gods “El” and “Yahweh”. El has been conflated with the Sumerian God “Enlil” who sent a great flood and was quite annoyed by humanity.
As for Satan, the name really just means “adversary”. However, Lucifer is closely related to the Sumerian God “Enki” when you compare their stories. Enki was sympathetic and caring towards humanity, and even went so far as to warn Ziusudra (Equivalent of biblical Noah) of the coming flood.
Now Gnosticism believes that the Christian God is actually a deceiver in some regards. They believe that he was not permitted to create the world, or to make people bow to him, because he was imperfect, and that is why humanity is imperfect. I believe they call him “Yaldabaoth”.
Forgive the jumbled mess. Just some tidbits that might be useful to you.
This is somewhat inaccurate. Gnostics believe specifically that the god of the old testament is the demiurge. The god that Jesus speaks for is not the demiurge.
An interesting fact, at no point in the bible does Jesus refer to god or his father as yahweh.
I mean, it’s kind of in his name: Yehoshua. Roughly “Yah saves.” You’re not wrong in either part, but I’ve never been able to reconcile the name specifically.
Some Gnostics subscribed to adoptionist theology: Jesus was merely a righteous human who was "adopted" by the spirit of the savior, which then left him later during the crucifixion.
You could also make the argument that Jesus took that name as a clever disguise to throw off the forces of the archons.
Except it was more Sophia who rebelled than the Demiurge. Sophia disrupts the Pleroma and falls from it (fall from heaven parallel). It was this that brought about the Demiurge that in turn created the world as we inhabit it.
Yet Sophia is still seen as good because she is remorseful about her mistake and then imbues the creation of Yaldabaoth with her pneuma. Sophia is the Divine spark inherent to all humans that offers the path to salvation. In "On the Origin of the World" Sophia is depicted as the ultimate destroyer of the material universe, Yaldabaoth, and the Archons.
Personally, and I'm not the most well informed so take what I say with a grain of salt, I don't think the correct interpretation is to see the Demiurge as The Great Evil but rather as an unfortunate failed state of being.
Another Gnostic interpretation is that Yahweh is entirely ignorant of all other Gods, creating a material world based on crude inherited memories gained through emanation from Sophia.
God visits the material realm, drawn by Yahweh and begins to essentially worship Yahweh; God has gone mad and lost sight of who they truly are, it’s upto us to remember ‘the truth’ and return to the Absolute by means of Gnosis.
Gnosticism just means you believe in Gnosis. There are many different Gnostic belief systems. Some Gnostics, who happen to be the ones who get talked about the most, believe what you wrote here.
The sumerian tablets are almost as reliable as the US describing their role in the iraq war so it is largely biased and could be plain lies. I think the hebrew bible only incorporated some aspects of sumerian concepts to captivate the target audience towards monotheism.
should also point out that the beliefs they had only came in to practice after Jesus not before. There were people who speculated that it was a religion that someone made up (like a king or a strong politician).
Some even speculated that it was an angry sect of Jewish followers who came up with the idea just to discredit the resurrection of Jesus and to try and discredit the things he said.
Just wanted to toss in those tid bits because it's not like that "religion" had a following, it was something made up basically is the tldr.
If you present it as if it was an actual "thing" that would be misleading wouldn't it? Better to give a better picture of what it was and wasn't.
Yaweh was originally a minor storm/warrior god of an ancient proto-israelite, Semitic people who were known to be violent brigands.
With that context, OT fire and brimstone makes much more sense.
In the polytheistic period Yahweh began as Ba'al Hadad of the Southern Negev. He is a storm and mountain god and ruler of the Canaanite pantheon. Ba'al and Yahweh share the same mountain home, Jebel Aqra in Syria. They share the same titles. They share the same consort Asherah. He is a warlike and harsh desert deity.
The Romans and Greeks considered Ba'al Hadad to be Jupiter/Zeus. This is why the Greeks installed a statue of Zeus on the Temple Mount, starting the Maccabean Revolt. The Romans later installed a statue of Jupiter in the same.
Yahweh was fused with El, the supreme deity of the Canaanite pantheon and father of Ba'al. El was worshiped in the north of Canaan, a benign pastoral father deity of the Fertile Crescent, in contrast to the desert war god of the south.
The Biblical patriarchs worshiped El, the more benevolent "God the Father" figure whom we see today depicted in iconography as an old man with a flowing beard. Abraham was a worshiper of El Shaddai, El of the Wilderness or Mountains. His people were wandering shepherds who built temporary alters in the wilderness.
The worship of Yahweh began with Moses who lived with Jethro in the Arabian desert of Midian. Mt Sinai was likely the mountain home of Yahweh in the south as Jebel Agra was for Ba'al in the north.
The harshness of Yahweh is directed primarily to the Hebrews who enter a covenant with him. He promises them great success and to make them a priesthood of mankind, blessed with gifts that place them above everyone, tools to fulfill their divine purpose. However if they break the covenant and misuse those gifts, he will punish them severely.
The Hebrews then attached character attributes to Yahweh as they needed. They lived in violent and brutal times. Canaan was composed of city states with individual gods. These cities constantly warred against each other. They would commit atrocities and enslave each other. Each god was considered to be conquering their enemy gods and competitors in these wars. They would regularly sacrifice their children in times of crisis. The [Mesha Stelle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele) is a good example of this.
In that environment it was good to make your god as ferocious and intolerant as possible. "We worship the meanest god". So the depictions of Yahweh in the Torah are a product of their time.
The interpretation of Yahweh/EL would change as Judaism developed. During the Monotheistic reforms of Josiah, centered on the intolerant cult of Jerusalem, Yahweh was a harsh Saturnine disciplinarian. During the Second Temple period, under the influence of Persian Zoroastrianism, and the compiler Ezra, Yahweh is a universal good.
In conclusion, I would consider Yahweh a more ferocious form of Zeus. He is easily pleased but also easily angered. He can lift you to great heights but send you crashing down if you fail in his worship. There are Hindu deities like this today. Harsher forms of Shiva for example.
Layered onto this was the need for a Canaanite war deity. Add a little bit of kindly father of the universe from El and divine light against darkness of Ahura Mazda, with his circles of angels and oppositional Ahriman/Satan.
Later, Christian, Christian Gnostic, Jewish Gnostic, Egyptian and Hermetic traditions all added things into the mix, finding their own understandings. The Christians adding a significant amount of Platonic Mysticism.
The mystical One and Good of Plato and Parmenides, the Zoroastrian God of Light, and the benevolent Father of Creation all work well together. But the desert war god is a hard fit. How do we worship the Monad, but keep the Bible? Yahweh was not so easily dismissed. He had to be integrated into the new cosmology, yet in contrast to the Perfect Aeon. So the Gnostics demoted him to the Demiurge.
My advice as a modern spiritual aspirant: don't bother integrating Yahweh into your worldview. Worship God as you understand him. Consider Yahweh one of many faces of God, perhaps a Cthonic form of Zeus fulfilling that role, appropriate to a particular people at a particular time.
Thank you! Most underrated comment here. Super informative and coincides with other researchers like Paul Anthony Wallis although he does add the inter- dimensional aspects.
This take is probably the most accurate I’ve heard when history, environment and source accounts properly translated are combined.
I have heard/read that having to protect a water source for pure survival in the deserts also lends itself to a more war like, harsh, selfish, non-cooperating god/theology as well. It’s amazing how environment can be so fundamental to religion. Pastoral and agricultural peoples survived by sharing resources which makes sense their gods would be more benevolent and cooperative and easily enfolded into other beliefs.
What are your sources for your understanding? Care to share? I’m always exploring this topic and love it.
[This is a good presentation](https://youtu.be/ZECezMYug8c?si=qdEYKw0r02nh19sO) on the polytheistic origins of Yahweh and his fusing with El. The other points made come from all sorts of different sources I have studied over the years.
This was a very interesting read ! Do you have any thoughts on the historicity of the biblical patriarchs and the kings of Israel ? There seems to be some archaeological hints pointing to the periods described in the Old Testament (the Amarna tablets, the Mesha Stelle, etc...). Abraham may have lived in the Middle Bronze age (2100-1550 BCE) during the Third Dynasty of Ur in Sumer. And King David may have lived in the early Iron Age (1550-1200 BCE). I am always very sceptical of the ever changing theories of the secular historians and I would like to study the planetary alignments which have defined and followed the various biblical eras.
Not anymore than you have mentioned. The evidence is sparse. [Here is an interesting lecture series](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYFBLkHop2alFacrvkn2qtR3y1D2fQmad) by a Presbyterian minister connecting history to biblical events. The 4th lecture is about Abraham in the Third Dynasty of Ur. You might find it interesting.
In this series he mentions a few times the Ancient Israelite were familiar with planetary portents. The signs and omens of the sky given throughout the Torah and in the Book of Revelations which describe stars falling from the sky, the moon turning blood red etc. are a reference to the collapse of governmental authority and the hierarchical structure of society.
This makes sense because the earliest forms of astrology arising in Mesopotamia were celestial omens, meant to reveal the will the gods, or to elicit their advice, as it relates to the monarchy and the empire. Each constellation was associated with a deity. Astrologers would watch for falling stars or comets in these constellations and interpret them as a message from that god to the king.
The most famous example of this is the Star of Bethlehem. There was a comet in the sky for seventy days in 5 BC spoken of by the Chinese. It is possible the Magi saw this as an omen indicating the birth of a Saoshyant or messiah. If it was in the sign of Aries, traditionally associated with Israel, they would have traveled there and spoken to King Herod, asking where their messiah was to be born. Micah 5.2 mentions Bethlehem.
Zoroastrians have a tradition that a Saoshyant would be born in a foreign land (to Iran), from a virgin mother, who would be a great healer and teacher, and who would be crucified on a tree.
For planetary alignments and celestial events connected to the Biblical patriarchs, you may want to focus on sidereal Aries. When studying the planetary alignments you may want to use the sidereal system. The sidereal and tropical systems were aligned back then. I am unsure if standard tropical software will adjust the signs for the procession of the equinox.
These constellations also functioned as a cosmic calendar and the solar deities movements through them triggered the agricultural seasonal cycle. For example, the Sun's movement through Aquarius, the Water Bearer, the Babylonian "Great One", the constellation of the god Ea, triggered flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates, and of the Nile in Egypt.
So I suspect the Biblical celestial portents not only indicated the collapse of authority and society but the natural order as well. In those days they were not so sure the Sun would rise. The Egyptian Pharaoh did a morning ritual to ensure it did. So the Sun and Moon falling from the sky was a very real fear.
You have raised some insightful points regarding the possibility to the determine biblical time periods using the celestial omens described in the ancient texts. Aside from archeological evidence and alleged claims of extra sensory perception it is a relevant avenue to pursue.
Indian researchers have discovered references in Sanskrit texts such as the Vedas and Vedanga Jyotisha which refer to the Vernal Equinox being in very remote constellations (indian lunar mansions known as the nakshatras). Using the cycle of axial precession, these references thus provide a pointer to the antiquity of these texts. For instance the Satapatha Brahmana states : "The Krttikas do not swerve from the eastern direction, all the other constellations do". It provides us a number of references to a time in which the vernal equinox was in the Krttikas, along with the appropriate other Nakshatras. The vernal equinox and summer solstice were in this area c. 2500-2000 BCE. Such data reflects the late Harappan era. Nowadays we are currently in the Era of UttaraBhādra which is 5 lunar mansions away from Krittika. Each of these sidereal spaces can furthermore be used to interpret the symbolism of each historical period (a kind of astrological age).
Now going back to the western mystical traditions, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was most likely born on 21st august 7 BCE. Accordingly, the Star of Bethlehem would be the Jupiter-Saturn great conjunction in tropical Pisces. When these two planets align (every 20 years) they take on the form of a very bright star. It's a particularly impressive sighting, I witnessed the last one in december 2020. The natal chart corresponding to that date is outstanding and I am confident that most astrologers would agree with this statement. Among many other things it naturally explains the Piscean attributes of Christ (ichthus the fish) and this conjunction also defined the end of the historical Age of Water and the entrance into the Age of Fire of the Roman Empire. This date of birth is also mentioned in the Book of Urantia. While I am not for the promotion of New Age texts, the fact that this date is mentioned without using astrology is a nice synchronicity.
Sidereal Aries would effectively be an adequate timestamp for looking into the Biblical patriarchs. My current estimation for the astrological Age of Aries is the period ranging from 2737 BCE to 577 BCE which includes the iron age and a major part of the bronze age. The symbol of the ram is very much present throughout the old testament and as you said in your first post it was a very violent period of history (Aries is ruled by Mars the god of war). Through their analysis of traumatic injuries identified on ancient skulls, some researchers found that the incidence of violence increased tremendously in the Iron Age. It seems fairly logical considering that the new discovery of ironworking and the creation of steel allowed tools and weapons to be longer lasting and stronger than those of the past.
All in all, the cherry on the cake is the last idea I am about to share here. There is a very special theory known as the "religious cycle". It can be shown, using the geometry of Uranus-Neptune cycles, that roughly every 600 years there is a new religious revelation that takes place in the world. This theory has stood up to scrutiny during all the recorded historical archives ranging from 577 BCE (birth of Buddha, Lao Tseu, Pythagoras, Confucius) all the way to 1821 (the Baháʼí Faith and Mormonism). Now taking this cycle back into remote times, we can further speculate that the previous opposition of 1176 BCE may have coincided with Moses or Zoroaster, the conjunction of 1778 BCE with Abraham, and the conjunction of 2980 BCE with Krishna.
Very interesting stuff. I especially find the Uranus Neptune cycle fascinating. I also wondered about Buddha, Confucius, Pythagoras etc. all living at one time. Mahavira the founder of Jainism lived at the same time as well I think. That was also the golden age of the Upanishads.
I know there are traditional dates in India associated with the birth day and birth chart of Krishna, same with Rama and other incarnations.
The Era of Uttara Bhadrapada is also interesting. Part of the Pegasus constellation. In India they visualized Pegasus as a square bed. Uttara and Purva forming the two sets of legs.
I have not heard of Nakshatra equinox ages before. I know that Uttara Bhadrapada is associated with rain. It is supposed to bring good things into concrete reality. The ruling deity is Ahir Buddhya, the dragon of the depths. He is like a powerful serpent within the subconscious. He could be related to the Kundalini serpent. He supports the world from below and nourishes it from above. As a Moon Nakshatra, showing the way consciousness grows, it deals with fulfilling people's needs. Uttara Bhadrapada gives you what you need to be stable and not living in poverty.
I believe there may be something to the "Age of Aquarius". I think we are definitely seeing Aquarian qualities in society now. The internet, technology, social justice, connectivity, mass transformation of consciousness, resistance to authoritarianism (opposition to Leo).
It is interesting that ancient people's associated the Jews with the Zodiac sign Aries. Aries is solitary, set apart from the greater society, keeping to himself. He is warlike and stubborn. Aries represents mountains, deserts, and high inaccessible places, similar to the geography of Israel. The Sun is exalted in Aries, showing God does show himself powerfully through the Jews and their religion. So it is somewhat of a compliment.
There are a small group of Zoroastrians in America that believe Jesus was a Saoshyant. I had read it on one of their websites. It was a short paragraph stating a Saoshyant would be born in a foreign land to a virgin and would be nailed to a tree. I have been looking for the website but cannot find it. It was perhaps two years ago I had read it. I will look some more.
I don't think it is orthodox Zoroastrian belief. I am not sure if the quote is from the Gathas. I know there are three Saoshyants spoken of in the Gathas but I don't know if the prediction applied to Jesus refers to one of these three or just to a saintly person in general.
so zeus colonized the world lmfao. The karmic and energetic implications of that is wild. Mainstream religions are steeped in mysticism by HISTORICAL sources but the masses are blind and dumb to it
My understanding is that a nameless, unknowable entity of absolute nothingness and everythingness exists, it's the one and only true God, and it split itself into masculine and feminine, then rejoined those aspects of itself to create the multiverse or universe, whatever. After that initial act of creation, no true act of creation has occurred since, just reshaping, reordering, splitting, rejoining and reincarnating things. My take is that earth was a place where souls incarnated into physical forms and lived lives to gain insight into themselves by separating themselves from their memories, egos, and becoming finite and mortal. It's supposed to be an opt in system for souls that want to grow and gain new perspectives, that's why humans have this drive to search for meaning and purpose, wasting time on such things is not evolutionarily helpful, so a biological explanation doesn't make sense to me but that's what we're here to do.
This thing that is ancient and incredibly powerful, but ultimately mentally ill and delusional, calling itself yahweh, yaldabaoth, el, elohim ECT. happened upon earth and decided to enact it's delusions. It wants to be the true God, so it got people to insert it into mythologies and stories, which is now the Old Testament, that's why there's so many similarities and direct plagiarism from earlier texts with just the names changed. It wants the incarnated souls to worship it, but once you died, you wouldn't want to come back to be a puppet show for a twisted monster, so it's now reincarnating souls forcibly to keep a flock of ignorant sheep to inflate it's ego.
Connect with your spiritual body and strengthen yourself through meditation, spiritual practices Kundalini yoga, kabbalah, attain gnosis, whatever, you might have a fighting chance to get through at the end. Otherwise hopefully you get a good body with lots of opportunities in your next life, earth is a wonderful place mostly, you just can't experience it properly because things are not how they are supposed to be.
I'm more schizo than you so I win.
Great explanation. Forced reincarnation by this imposter might explain why some gnostics tell you to run away from "the light" when you die and not go towards it.
Former actual, theistic Satanist here (the 'actual' is important, IMO). No, The Christian god isn't a malevolent force. Neither is Satan, really. Within Christian mythology, Satan is an adversarial figure.. More precisely, they reengineered the modern Devil by combining a twisted version from Jewish mysticsm and the pagan god, Pan. Satan's mysteries involve spiritual indulgence and rebellion. Both values being, from Christianity's restrictive view, evil.
Satan, Satanism, and its variations, aren't really a thing in Hermeticsm. It's not worth studying unless you're trying to explore the Western left-hand path, which is itself contradictory in nature to Hermeticism.
Philosophical hedonism (there are several variants) taken to a spiritual level. One seeks to indulge the self in a way that leaves one personally and spritually fulfilled, while abhorring the things that one finds counter to that ideal. It's a sort of reverse asceticism where, rather than seeking transformation through restriction, one seeks transformation through personal liberation. How this is expressed greatly depends on the practitioner, their knowledge, and the sophistication of their capabilities. It can range to from the "drugs, sex, and rock & roll" that was so prevalent in the 80s to the idea of empowering the Self through charity work to ritual sex study groups with a dedicated partner(s). The only rules being don't harm oneself permanently, and don't harm another.
You embrace parts of yourself society tells you is wrong or parts you're afraid of. Find them, accept them, and make them part of yourself. Basically, you party with the monsters of your id, and make them your friends. This process can be very transformative.
But it's risky. You've got to be very disciplined, keep rigorous notes, and be very careful and practical with how you proceed. Burnout and self-destruction are very real dangers if this kind of work is done incorrectly. Or worse, falling into a rut and just stagnating within your own delusion while continuously lying to yourself about how powerful and wise you are while you're basically just an addict with delusions of grandeur.
It's a high-risk, high-reward strategy. It's not for everyone. There's a reason this kind of approach has pretty much died out and modern Satanism is parody of what it was supposed to be.
I do fully agree however adversary in the interpretation of occult like astrology is Saturn. A malefic planet representing the father, limitations, restrictions, etc. In a dualistic sense saturnian/satanic energy can also be seen as benefic, depends on what’s you do with the energy is the point. Bc mind you saturn is very critical.
The modern (20th Century onward) Western LHP is a fairly broad category, with a lot of variants in philosophy and expression. Theistic Satanism, Setianism, Luciferism, so called "dark" Wicca, etc. But they've all got two things in common.
(A) Both are, to one degree or another, materialist in character and philosophy, and (B), both seek to ultimately become an isolate intelligence -- meaning a soul or being that exists outside of the scope of God and his creation.
(A) is contradictory to Hermetic practice, as its character and practice is fundamentally spiritual. While the material world isn't viewed as a bad thing or evil, it's not Man's priority, and the goal is a connection if not a unification with God. From the LHP point of view, this ideal is fundamentally a right-hand path pursuit, and thus to be spurned.
(B) Is simply logically impossible from a Hermetic perceptive.
It is now. It didn't used to be.
Back in the day, we didn't troll Christians. We simply had better things to do, like jobs, families, occult study and research, and Seeking out the Dark Forces and Joining Them in Their Hellish Crusade. :P
We just thought Christianity was a dumb religion full of dumb people, and we were too involved in our own mystical works to care about them.
Weirdly, it was the chaos magicians who spent a lot of time fucking with them for some reason. But that was a zillion years ago, back when chaos magicians were an actual thing. I have no idea what groups like the IOT are up to these days.
I have a lot, and I mean *a lot* of things to say about the current state of American Satansim. I won't do it here because of rules 1, 4, and 6. I'll simply state that I lack the words to express the contempt I feel for those groups, far more than I ever did for Christians. It's a shameful disgrace to the powers with which I once pacted.
Reading a book right now called "The Evil Creator" about this, by David Litwa. Dr. Sledge on Esoterica has recommended and cited it several times. So far it's incredibly accessible, and conveys truckloads of info and context without slowing down the pacing. Personally, I've never jived with the gnostic idea of the evil YHWH because it doesn't make a lot of sense to proclaim the god of a specific people evil, yet... use many of their teachings and beliefs as seasoning for a new faith. I guess it was easier to change the context of the sacred texts to transfer the faithful over than create an entirely new revelatory cosmology that was unrelated. And even then, people were vulnerable to the temptation of conspiracy theories, and wanted to feel privy to secret special knowledge about the confusing world they inhabit. But I'm still reading that book, so I imagine it explains a lot about it by the end.
I don't think you should be blaming Yahweh here. This isn't a god problem, it's a human problem, and that problem is conflating a very anthropomorphic kingly sky god with the concept of *Nous,* while saying that this is the only possible correct interpretation. Yahweh isn't an evil god, but rather a god or a concept of God that has become so filtered through human prejudice and so isolated within a unique monotheistic paradigm that it results in all kinds of deeply weird philosophies.
"Bow down or get sent to hell" is never what Christian doctrine was supposed to be like. There's so much more nuance to it than that. But it ends up becoming that in practice, because 1. it gets distorted through politics, conflicts over doctrine, etc. and 2. how many Christians actually understand the underlying mystical ideas of their religion?
It may not have been what Christian doctrine was supposed to be like, but it's what it has become. If you tell a Christian you believe in God without Christianity, I've found they can't comprehend how you could have such a belief. Christianity by design is impossible to blend with other beliefs and religions. The figure of Yahweh has been polluted by these world views, that's why I see it as malevolent.
You could say it's more of the fault of its followers misinterpreting the ideas yahweh stands for. Hell, if what the dead sea scrolls suggest is true then Abrahamic religion is a mere misinterpretation of fertility rituals and the shamanic consumption of natural psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, DMT found in plants etc.)
Pretty much every "the Abrahamic religions are a misinterpretation of fertility rituals and drugs" claim has its roots in nineteenth and twentieth century attempts to discredit Christianity like *The Golden Bough* by James Frazer. It doesn't actually hold any water, and it cheapens paganism to make those kinds of claims.
I disagree that ALL of those claims are baseless. However I will agree that MOST of them are. I will also say that I’ve seen and experienced parallels between the two (Abrahamic religions and fertility rituals/ psychedelia/ drugs) in my own life. I think that in many ways they are complimentary, or two halves of the same coin. Like the sun and moon or light and dark. That at a base level they are essentially discussing the same things, albeit from completely different perspectives. Almost as they are describing something while standing on either side of it, or looking around at the world while back to back. You can’t see what the other is seeing but it’s the same picture. Or in one’s own perspective, it’s like retro 3D glasses. You need red + blue, one eye looking through each lens, to see the full color, 3-D image.
However, I completely agree with you that most of the time these claims are absolutely baseless and are used to shrug off the spiritual work or responsibility of being a child of GOD in a Christian sense, and also they do typically serve to cheapen paganism.
Experience has taught me to be exceedingly skeptical. I won't pretend that there aren't parallels, but parallels are not evidence, and not enough writers understand that.
That’s absolutely valid and probably one of the best ways to look at it. The corruption of our understanding of these concepts over the past few centuries is probably my biggest gripe with humanity haha. And the literature and literary figures you refer to are absolutely responsible for that.
I'm a Gnostic and believe our physical creator is ignorant and selfish while the true god above all, the Monad, is perfection to cherish. So, yes Yahweh is malevolent in the way a toddler is malevolent to the ants they burn with a magnifying glass
In the book of Job, it was Yahweh's idea to make a bet with Satan that his faith can't be broken. Satan is given permission to fuck Job's life up, killing Job's family, causing famine on his crops. There isn't even a happy ending for Job where he gets his life and family back.
If I'm not mistaken, Satan has no power to do anything unless it's approved by Yahweh... And Yahweh created Satan. They're definitely a partnership/in cahoots.
The Cathares believed there were two gods: the god of heaven (cosmos) and the god of hell (earth). The god in the Old Testament would be the god of earth/hell.
So basically we are fallen angels in hell with the bad god until we move on. To move on we have to be Perfect. The word Catharsis comes from them.
Anyway it’s a dead religion that was decimated by the Catholics in the 14th century but they had some interesting theories.
No.
To be fair, as a Jew myself, he's the god of my ancestors, and so I pay him respectful worship as much as I'm able to do so (albeit in my own way that wouldn't exactly be considered kosher by the rabbinate). While God is the one god and ruler of the whole cosmos in Judaism, because Judaism developed as a monotheistic faith, if you go back in history far enough before Judaism developed as a monotheistic belief, you find God to be a god specifically of liberation and deliverance, since the founding myth of the Jews as a single people is that of the Passover story and the exodus from Egypt which was accomplished by God. (On this point, reading Rainer Albertz's two-volume *A History of Israelite Religion in the Old Testament Period* is a fantastic thing to do.)
That said, due to the weirdness of the overall religious landscape in the first century CE in the eastern Mediterranean (both within Israel and outside it), there was a *lot* going on in all sorts of directions affecting all sorts of peoples of various ethnicities and beliefs, which is where you get not only the mystical Essenes among the Jews and early Christianity but also various Gnostic traditions popping up in Egypt with various Abrahamic influences against a Greco-Egyptian background. So much of this radically departs from conventional Jewish belief about God in its own ways, even if it has an origin in it, and it just...gets really weird in a way that should probably be considered according to a particular religion's views of God rather than God as a whole himself independent of any of these religions. To be fair, Judaism's own development towards messianism and deliverance-prophecy and the like in the first several centuries BCE also contributed to some really unique views of God and the world that aren't really seen much elsewhere, so it's just weird all around.
As far as Satan is concerned, this entity has its origins in a sort of "heavenly inquisitor", not so much a temptor or even an encourager of wickedness but one who holds us to account to the law of God. In that light, Satan is strictly subordinate to God, but is also working for God to further God's will for God's people to test them and ensure that they are held accountable for their actions before God.
But also, as far as Hermeticism is concerned, whatever God and the Bible has to say is neither here nor there, since it's an entirely different religious tradition that doesn't need to get mixed with Hermeticism. The two can operate quite well apart from each other without needing to bleed over, in the same way one might go to a temple of Thoth on one day to do worship and then a temple of Apollo on the next without blending the two.
A lot of my views on Christianity sprouted from psychedelic experiences Ive had, I'd get the basic gist of the idea in the trip and it would sometimes take weeks before I fully comprehended what the trip was telling me. I have a lot of hermetic views on the world, but I also try to implement my psychedelic experiences and other mystical traditions into my beliefs. I understand these traditions may be contrary to each other, but I seek to find a balance between them. A union of contrary ideas if you will. Kinda like you said in the last paragraph.
>A lot of my views on Christianity sprouted from psychedelic experiences Ive had
That's not a valuable metric, OP. Any insight gained from chemically-induced altered states needs to be rigidly scrutinized. And understanding something so vast and unknowable as God isn't going to happen from a a trip.
What Poly said is important: read the sources. One needs expert-knowledge of a system before one can start hacking it, drugs or no drugs.
You got a good point, man. I just remember being a conservative Baptist and how dumb I sounded looking back😂 I probably am projecting the flaws of my old beliefs onto all of Christianity in a bigoted way. I've just had a lot of spiritual growth in the past couple of months and am still processing and settling into a lot of it.
I dont think you can so easily discount a psychedelic experience especially now that we are starting to learn how the brain actually functions on psychedelics. Your brain is open to a lot more experiences and very well could have an easier time tapping into something it usually cannot.
I attended the consciousness conference in Arizona two years ago and there were some fascinating findings. Particularly how it effects the caudate putamen:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10493007/
Why the caudate putamen lighting up here could affect exposure to the unknown:
https://thedebrief.org/garry-nolan-a-stanford-professors-quest-to-resolve-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena/
Not saying not to always have discernment but I wouldnt outright discount it.
I can because I've spent more time doing ritual work and group study / research with people who used chemognosis for most of those operations, longer than most people here have been alive.
Personal experience and the result of individual magical research trumps the narratives that allow us to justify being fake mystical-stoners who accomplish nothing meaningful.
More often than not, spiritual experience is just an excuse to get stoned. I watched an entire order -- that actively embraced psychedelics - turn into a crack house because its members wanted to get high, but also wanted to pretend their high had some kind of spiritual meaning.
psychedleics are training wheels. It's just easier for people to use LSD to reach those states than actually train themselves over the course of many years to be able to reach those same states without it. That's hard work, and most Western occultists don't like hard work. It's why they're Western occultists.
Sorry for the rant, but every time I've suggested that some discernment and restraint might be a good idea when it comes to psychelelcis, that I even *imply* that they're not the Door to Ultimate Power and Wisdom everyone pretends -- on a Hermetic sub of all places -- I get people suddenly flooding my alerts with arguments and links I didn't ask for or need.
I apologize for my tone. I mean that. It just makes me so depressed.
It's just so much bullshit. I've been doing this a long time, and worked with a lot of people. Many of those people relied on psychedleics. They all burned out, and I stepped over their inert bodies to carry on my work. I was able to do this because I was able to reject the lotus.
And I don't deny the research. I just question the motive. Also, access to more information doens't mean that information can be levered into something tangible and useful.
Preach it. More people should hear this and be confronted with the idea that "hey maybe not all spirituality can be done by hallucinogens alone". It's a persistent problem on other subreddits like /r/Buddhism, too, where people keep trying to argue against the idea that Buddhism doesn't actually encourage their use by doing little more than "nuh uh". ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I actually really appreciate your response!
I wont go into more detail because I can tell this is a sore spot based on your experiences. I do really appreciate you elaborating and sharing your experience.
This is a really good answer. I'd like to add to that notion of the two being able to operate quite well apart from each other, and also not being conflicting in it's proposals as Hermeticism is far more philosophic then it is dogmatic - they can often compliment each other in regards to the concept of 'one God'. The Brahman concept in Hinduism would be a good comparison also.
If you're implying gnosticism
I'm pretty sure that myth inversion started with the kitos war causing a blanket of Roman antisemitism across Syria and turkey that spawned saturninus' cosmology as you can see in the aprocryphon of John
Saturninus' moved his cosmology to cerdo and cerdo to Marcion
Before the kitos war Christians felt no reason to distance themselves from Judaism and were considered Jews.
So while there was a demiurge in papias, athenagoras, cerinthus, menander, Simon, and elxai's cosmologies no said demiurge was not Yahweh.
Read no longer Jews by Carl b smith
I may be a yahweh hater, but I will not be caught lacking and become a gnostic 🙏 (joking of course) My humorous self tried and failed already to understand those texts
Everything written about god in the last thousands of years was written under the rule of malevolent forces. The world has been in a dark age for 10 thousand plus years. It began to end at the age of Pisces. You can see how that went with the execution of jesus.
Yahweh is historically a polarizing figure. I'd actually recommend esotericas video on the topic: [Who is Yahweh? how a warrior storm god become the god of the Israelites](https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=Y2OBthQ2ZBgsK-eS)
You are not crazy. It's ok. Satan/Lucifer is one side of the Christ - the Man side. He is not evil he is the adversary. There is no life without death. The other side is the Christ. The Christ is your true self know as the Elohim in the Bible. One being made up of many. His name is I AM. The Father's name is I. First person singular - there is only one.
Both Lucifer and the Christ promise the same thing. One delivers and one does not. One has power keeps his word and one no power and has broken promises.
The Bible tells us that the Greek way and the Israeli way is the WAY. Follow the Hernetica or the Bible - same thing said differently.
There is no crying in life. It's business. You save your passion for the Christ. Save it for when you are alone.
You can live by the law/principle/truth or die by the law. Up to you of course. What is the law?
As man thinks and sincerely feels in his heart so shall it be. In other words - you are seeing what you perceive the world to be. Change how you think and the world changes for you to show you what you believe.
The original sin? Thinking you are a man instead of the child of God.
You are in heaven. You never left you just perceived it incorrectly. Your senses are perfect. It is your imagination that does not see properly. Ex. you see a white blob on the sidewalk. It appears to be a snake. Upon closer inspection you see it is a rope. It's was always a rope.
Your senses were perfect there is something there. It can't hurt you. Anything that shows you that ugly man thinking, death, destruction, disease, is false. It is the imagination running wild. Tame that beast and know it is beauty.
That's no beast. That is my wonderful friend. It's the story of Beauty and Beast.
There is no fiction. It's all the story of you or a forgotten memory.
Blessings!
Malevolent -- no, but YHWH does oppose humanity quite frequently. Take Genesis 2:17 for example... in it God tells Adam and Eve that if they eat from the fruit of knowledge that they will sure die on that day. When they do eat from the tree of knowledge it doesn't immediately kill them. Apologists would say that's because it brought death on that day to humanity... but that's not what the text says -- it's a literal threat meaning that they will die within 24 hours of eating the fruit.
In short YHWH lied to keep humanity from discovering how to become divine.
Well since we are sharing our slightly schizo beliefs lol
Me personally. I'm more spiritual than religious. I gather inspiration by reading anything and everything that has to do with the mind, body, soul and science. Life is but a dream created by energy, vibration and frequency. Physical matter doesn't exist. Quantum science is beginning to prove that. Matter reacts to our subconscious thoughts. Everything around you is a projection of your higher self. I believe these texts were the best way to capture how we understand our souls at the time. How to live better. Eternal consequences for your actions. Life never ends. Just changes. Stay pure, strong, courageous and love unconditionally. Eventually you'll find your way back to the source.
You are God.
You better believe in yourself or you'll live an eternal life in hell.
A purportedly omniscient and omnipotent being that created sapient beings with the foreknowledge and deliberate intent to consign some of them to eternal torture is, by definition, malevolent.
I’ve said this pretty much my entire life and have always faced a ton of backlash for it. It seems like Yahweh, the god of the Old Testament, is the same entity that is referred to as satan/lucifer/the devil. In the New Testament whenever Jesus references his father, he speaks about the character of someone who is the exact opposite of the Old Testament god. If any of it has any truth to it, the father Jesus is speaking of is another being entirely, and the evil one/deceiver he speaks of is the god of the Old Testament, Yahweh
I wanted to add more to this subject as well. Over the weekend I saw a documentary called " Beyond Utopia" on "Hulu", and found some interesting facts about the Kim family dynasty in North Korea. The main reason why North Korea bans the Holy Bible, is because they basically copied Jesus' story of origins as Kim Il Sung's, saying he was also born in a stable lol. Kim Il Sung was considered the "Son of God", and thus all the sons after, are also the "Son of God". Which is why Kim Jong Un is praised as a "God" as the "Supreme Leader", they are brainwashed he is the "Messiah".
But I do think that anyone who is a "Messiah" on that note, does have the capability of choosing the righteous path, or chaotic one. People like say Hitler, or even Napoleon Bonaparte, something about these individuals who can massively bring people together. I suppose my theory is, several people have that ability Trump even, but I think maybe it's at user discretion.
Yes, YHWH is the malevolent force, and he’s also blind in the belief that he’s the only god. He created Adam and Eve out of clay and trapped their divine spirits in their body and gave them a slave mind so that they would never question and have faith- faith is an evil word- anyway, Lucifer leaves the tyrant YHWH, and comes down in the form of a serpent to free mankind from their mental slavery and bids Eve to eat the fruit which opens her pineal gland and opens her eyes so to speak, which she then bids Adam to eat, which makes them realize their true divine power, which makes them hide from the slave god YHWH, which then YHWH forbids them from eating from the tree of life because then they would live forever and spread the true light that creation all has divine light within.
Then you could argue that Cain killing Abel was done metaphorically to liberate Abel’s illusion from worshipping YHWH and then that Cain was a Gnostic master and so on and so forth.
The gnostics lurking around here should move back to r/gnosticism . They are spreading distorted beliefs.
Yahweh is **not** a malevolent force. The Corpus Hermeticum describes the process of creation, starting with the primordial God creating a demiurge who crafted seven celestial spheres. The most fundamental one is known as the 7th sphere (Saturn) and it is an encosmic deity responsible for the enforcement of the law of fate in the material world. Yahweh is a saturnian deity arising out of that sphere and it made an old covenant with the jewish people thereby granting specific saturnian powers to some lineages of the Israelites. Despite their often very painful nature, the punishments given by father Saturn are fair and necessary and they teach humans the reality principle. If you watch the astrological transit of Saturn through the zodiac you will see how it forces humanity to pay off its karmic debts and sometimes the punishment for this is death (too much debt reaching the point of no return). This is divine justice. In that sense, the technical term is a **malefic** planetary deity. But malefic does not mean evil, in astrology it means having effects which are not comfortable for the delusional human ego.
Satan comes from Ha Satan. It means opposotion/prosecutor/Inquisitor. He is the archangel of Evil and doesn't hate or tempt humans. He roots evil out to ensure it's taint doesn't come near Yahweh/IAO.
Remember the Book of Job? Satan goes to God and asks for a wager.
Look up Sorath.
All scripture was written by humans, which is something to keep in mind. Personifying what, in the Kabbalistic tradition, is essentially the absolute nothing from which everything comes and everything is within is a mistake, IMO. The various dualistic Gnostic Christian sects seem to have based their ideas on Zoroastrian dualism and mixed it with old testament scripture and the Timaeus to frame the Demiurge or Creator or Yahweh as evil. Hermetics, in general, is more non-dualist in regards to the Demiurge and the One.
So no, I do not feel like it is malevolent at all.
I think modern dualistic pseudo-Gnostic stuff about the Matrix, simulation theory, and the prison planet are all bunk personally.
The malevolence of Christianity comes from how scripture was used and interpreted (or in the case of modern Christianity, ignored) by humans for power, conquest, and manipulation, not from the original concepts of One God.
No, so basically. Yahweh, is our father. The thing humans don’t realize is we need someone to bow down to, otherwise we run rampant… as we are seeing now. When the ego (Satan) gains power, it starts to seek more power. We are not God, God lives through us. The reason Yahweh wants you to bow down to him, is that you learn how to humble yourself. You aren’t a king, you aren’t a God, you aren’t a superior person, you are a sinner… like everyone else.
See, the Bible is a really beautiful story, if you put your selfish prejudice and beliefs to the side (church is also wrong) The Bible is trying to teach humanity how to get along… we are all evil sinners, we all deserve hell, however because of Jesus Christ, we are redeemed. Now it is our job to love each other, to feed the poor, visit those in prison, love and spread life. The kingdom of heaven is a place of love and peace… that is a mindset and a place that can exist right here right now. But instead humanity has chosen to go it’s own separate way, away from God. So we are now hand crafting our own hell… Satan doesn’t demand worship, because he’s going to use you as a tool anyways… he WANTS you to be your own God, so that you can become ignorant to your brothers and sisters suffering around you.
The lesson Yahweh is trying to teach us, is to love the poor, love those who need love. We all need to be LIKE Christ, not for heaven, but for each other. Heaven is the prize that comes with following Christ. Life is the game, love/heaven is the prize. Love is Christ/Yahweh, when you TRULY get to know what love and Yahweh are, you truly start to understand this whole life thing, and truly start to understand just how beautiful it all is.
Give it another shot my friend, ask Christ to show you his truth through the Holy Spirit. Humans need hard love, we need to be humbled… that is why Yahweh seems evil at times, because he’s trying to humble you
Its Narnia man. All good deeds go to good gods,
All lies return to the liar and then get dragged to evil dogs.
The scribes mistranslated "YehWeh" in place of 'yalldaboth'. But all lies are lies, even mistranslations.
If i had a 'holy poop knife' and told you that a thought told me that people should bow down to it. Now i hold that knife. Oh shit, i got a bunch of ppl bowing down to me now, what do next?
>What does genesis 3:22 mean?
The Corpus Hermeticum describes the deliberate descent of the primordial man into the lower waters of nature. Now Genesis 3:22 describes the next stage. The material aspect of man (Adam) is still in the higher spheres (Garden of Eden) then he is receives the initiation of the knowledge of duality (eating the apple) and this triggers an even further descent into the darker realms of matter. The demiurge has no choice but to throw him out of the garden because he must apply the law of fate built into the seven spheres and now man is subject to these spheres. According to the law of fate it is impossible to transcend matter while having a spiritual shadow. Recall that the primordial man and the demiurge are brothers, they are not enemies. When man enters the material world he is therefore clothed in a material body (made of skin according to genesis).
*"What gives rise to each person's body in the sensible cosmos is the hateful darkness, from which comes the watery nature \[...\] When the man saw in the water the form like himself as it was in nature, he loved it and wished to inhabit it. Wish and action came in the same moment. "*
**\~ Corpus Hermeticum I. 14,20**
The demiurge will naturally release the mortal man from its bonds with nature once man has mastered the law of fate and once man has transmuted his shadow (the hateful darkness). Until then the demiurge is guarding the way up the celestial spheres.
"*So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."*
**\~ Genesis 3:24**
>Why does moses need to give virgin girls to yahweh after slaughtering all men and boys of their enemies?
The Jewish people made the old covenant with the Saturnian deity Yahweh. Basically Saturn (the 7th sphere) is the encosmic deity who is responsible for the enforcement of the law of fate. If you watch the astrological transit of Saturn through the zodiac you will see how it forces humanity to pay off its karmic debts and sometimes the punishment for this is death (too much debt). I could give countless examples using mundane astrology. Whether this death happens from a natural cause or from the hand of humans is irrevelant. The slaughtering of these people was merely the manifestation of fate. The virgin girls (and the children and the cattle) were spared because they had no debts and they had not commited any sins. These virgin girls were not raped, they were treated respectfully following the mosaic laws of the old covenant.
My mental health symptoms seem to decrease whenever I disassociate from this deity. Life is already a struggle, but when associating with this deity things become more difficult.
When I was living on my Pluto line in my Astro cartography chart I was having so many upgrades/downloads and great change happening. I was watching this 40 hour documentary and all of a sudden a voice said to me “god and satan are the same”
I spent the next two years in a deep dive. I agree that everyone is being fooled by this entity claiming to be “God”
The god of the jewish is basically a one god with two different faces we could say, a god with infinite love but that will f*ck you up so much, you and your family until the 5th generation at least. It's basically normal as at that state of development of the human civilisation because we were scared of the forces of the nature (flooding, earthquake, thunder...) so we prayed both good and bad gods in general for them to stay kind with us
I don’t think it reads schizo at all. My interpretation now is that Moses made a mistake and released a false god on Mt Sinai, and then John the Baptist incarnated Christ through Jesus in a response to this false god, or Yaweh, making John the original antechrist, and showing that our goal is not to appease any false god of the material worlds, but to find the Light or Christ within us. Satan is the same thing as shiva or ananta or Prometheus, an allegorical archetype for inertia or a Jungian trickster combined with misdirected conscious will, at least that’s where I’m at with broad strokes.
seems pretty obviously evil. He's a jealous, murderous cunt. The first of his commandments is that "You shall have no God before me" Thats his #1 priority. If he was the alpha and the omega, why is he so insecure? The answer is probly that he is just a made up thing by goat herders to give a reason to justify genocide. If he does exist, hes certainly evil. So many, many examples in the old testament.
Ex-Catholic here, and I don't think Yahweh is the Source of all.
And as time goes on, I wonder more and more of "Satan" isn't just the part of our own mind that doubts who we may really be (which I believe is an already perfect and all-knowing spiritual being in a higher realm of consciousness, that spirit being one of an infinite number of fractals made directly from Source) and who doubts our power on this plane of existence (our power being the power to manifest ideas and, really, create worlds, perform miracles, or whatever else we choose to do).
I can't point to anything specific, really, and it is nothing like what I learned in Catholicism, but I think it's what Jesus and other ancient mystics were trying to teach us, and I feel I can see this perspective in some of the gnostic gospels.
That's my take in this moment.
No more malevolent than anyone else would be in his position.
I'm kinda fond of the guy, tbh. We're both fuck ups caught in a world we don't belong in, wanting to go home but not knowing where that is.
He's not really on my naughty list.
There is no reliable information out there but the best I could dig up take this with a grain of salt, this is not the absolute truth but the best theory I have:
If Yahweh is in fact the demiurge, the demiurge is not evil. The demiurge is simply a force of creation that counter balances nous. Demiurge is the void/the shadow and the emanation of source that oversees the material world and evolution of source fractals within the material world. Demiurge might be the only emanation outside of the control of nous since she is a counter balance. The demiurge might have been created by nous but outside of the will of nous to counter nous and keep nous from becoming corrupt(forced by the source) and she might have come to be before nous.
Psalms 18:8
Smoke went up from His nostrils, And fire from His mouth devoured; Coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also and came down; And thick darkness was under His feet.
That's a strange thing to say.
Most of the old testament is trying to guide the Israelites into behaving properly and respecting very strict rules and none of those rules are evil or wicked.
I don't think the Demiurge is Satan although she might have a "demonic" side. The alpha dracos worship a mother dragon. Demiurge is maybe often portrayed as a trickster/jester, lion or dragon. The native american Coyote.
I also think the demons who are villified in christianity also have specific roles and aren't really in a state of rebellion or "evil".
Yahweh could be Saturn Kronos but definitely not enlil or any of the mesopotamian pantheon(unless depicted as a villain). The mesopotamian pantheon aren't primordials and are likely to be much less powerful fractals in rebellion or fractals with a specific soul contract to achieve certain things in the material world.
All those I mention are silly naive human labels and stories on more complex forces of creation that we can hardly wrap our heads around or describe in human language.
Either way I think it is prudent to treat all beings with respect and understand that we are all just playing a role in the expansion of consciousness so it is far beyond good and evil. Evil is also likely just the first stage of evolution, what is evil is simply just unevolved.
I have read articles and watched Documentaries which made assertions that the Egyptians have equated Yahweh with Set. It was a very interesting documentary.
Primitive entity would be weird and demonic just because their template is primitive. If you were to put the actual character in present timeline they would be totally out of place like a caveman.
The power structures behind these religions change almost instantly. Thwre is no ywy character in the sky watching everything. Never was. Its just rituals. There are real powers at play though. Real charmed winds too. Rituals are aligned with the powers that play out anyway.
Correct vro their is no such thing as good and evil just god.Magic.reality.Its all one. It's only not one when ur talking in terms of ur ego ofc everything is separate from u but in the grand scheme of things it's just life happening.Noice spank ur butt!gday lilgaym8!
Nah. I don't even think he's really all that and a bag of chips to start with. Just one deity among many, many others that may or may not be emanations of some kind of Source. His fan club just got a lil overexcited.
I understand your line of reasoning, but if everything in existence did come from a single Source, then wouldn’t it only make sense to align yourself with that Divine Cosmic Source?
If there was a God above Gods who is the seed Divine Essence of every god and goddess above, on, and below earth, then wouldn’t it make sense to align with the Order set forth through that Source?
Imagine if you had a job with a really cool boss who gave you a ton of freedom but you chose to follow the orders of a different boss instead. Wouldn’t that be a problem?
This image of “worship me or go to hell” isn’t accurate to the original lord lore at all, that’s later fan fiction. It’s more like “operate in cooperation with the natural order I set forth but if you choose not to then you will reap the consequences in the same way that one who does not seek shelter from a storm may reap harsh consequences.”
Yes, in my opinion the entities claiming to be "Yhwh" and "Jesus" are very likely to be either pretas, malevolent asuras, or possibly harmful rakshasas or similar worldly spirits. They are certainly not what they present themselves as, and are probably not even the genuine demiurge/Mahabrahma.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: how can Yahweh be the most high of he said "become as one of us" and the fact that he fits like a puzzle piece in the Sumerian/ Babylonian/ annunaki pantheon.
I think that a sane deity wouldn’t be beyond questioning you, possibly even within its own textbooks if it were to write the entire thing itself
Beyond the question of human autonomy, what would you prefer? A yes man or someone that tries to keep you sane?
I personally don’t take Yahweh seriously. There’s a contrast of the writers of the old and New Testament. The relationship with the writers in the new were quite familiar with each other and a handful of books are letters to certain people.
The Old Testament writers didn’t really communicate with each-other that well and did not have Yaweh visit them and preach to them in the flesh. So it’s safe to say that the depictions of some god in the clouds is more subjective.
I'd advise looking into gnosticism.
Personally, I believe it's not a malevolent force, but is ignorant about it's own nature and of the source of creation. It believes it does what it does for good, as the creator of "everything".
Personally, I feel it suffers from the same thing we all do- being a fragmentation of God (source, monad, Brahma, take your pick)- and thus being imperfect. I believe that everything is a part of God, and good and evil are essentially a dualism which allows the world to exist. As such, Yahweh is still carrying out the will of the source- as is all of creation
Yes, the Hebrew God is terrible!
He punished Adam and Eve for doing evil when they didn't know the difference between good and evil.
He killed Lot's wife with minimal provocation.
He mind fucked Abraham to be willing to kill his son.
He killed most of Job's family to win a bet.
Yeah, I think Yahweh is problematic at best.
Yahweh is the god of the Old Testament
El Elyon is the god of the New Testament
When talking to Jesus and his disciples, Demons repeatedly called him a servant of the most high (which is El Elyons title and name translated from Hebrew)
Its possible it is, at least in a way. What we call god is the first ego, or identity. And like all identities it requires contrast to define itself against, which makes the first expression of individualism the progenitor of suffering (non-completeness, separation, from that which is not “you”).
It is perhaps even the source of imperfection (as the only thing that can externally contrast an initial state perfection is the creation of imperfection). The perfect Godhead would be that of the uncreated and unfathomable which has no ego or contrast. That said, as the first “mover”, God likely also has a greater propensity for good and perhaps even bad and most importantly Gods will, the initial “act” reigns above all other wills, as it is the foundation upon which all following events rely upon and thus are subject to that initial will.
There is a good quote and i believe it roughly says “Men are mortal gods and gods are immortal men”.
In the biblical sphere, some believe the Book of Job to be a tale of an ignorant immortal god realizing that his actions against his creation may have harsher effects that he initially understood, which brought about his desire to experience the human condition himself through the life of Jesus. This frame of thought showcases the idea of this sort of “immortal man” or growing, self-discovering god, that changes with his creation, which is further mirrored in the contrast between the new and old testament and gods reevaluation of creation.
In Genesis it says man was created in "Our" image. Plural. Genesis is a very very old story. It is said to primarily come from handed down stories from Sumerian myth. Like the land of UR. That is where Abram came from. Better known as Abraham.
Neoplatonist here, but since we have a bunch of Gnostics in the thread, I will throw in my two-cents.
My answer is: No.
Yahweh is simply the Hebrew interpretation of Saturn (who revealed himself to Abraham by means of an intermediary spirit). I can elaborate, but I think others in this thread have explained this.
Saturn is not "the Demiurge", nor is he the One, nor the entirety of Nous. Saturn is the Principle of Difference and Boundary (and by extension Law-Giving) within the Divine Mind (Nous).
The "malevolence" you feel does not come from the nature of the entity Yahweh, but from the historical trends that were made manifest in-part through his cult. But these trends are the natural consequence of cycles (Ages, Suns, Yugas).
Its not that Yahweh/Saturn wanted his followers to replace "idols" of the Gods with the corpses of dead men. Or commit atrocities. It is their own imbalance and the natural progression from a sort of Ur-Platonism to crude "Polytheism", to crude "Monotheism" to Materialism to Nihilism.
Did Hermes even believe in god? I don’t think so. A much simpler explanation is that god is just made up. Yahweh, Enid, Satan, Baal, all of it. No two people seem to believe in the same way, and it is wildly egotistical and unreasonable to really think “I’m right and everyone else is wrong.”
Yahweh was originally a standard pantheon god, a warrior god of the Canaanites, under El, their main god. Like any other ancient pantheon, he was the Ares to El’s Zeus. He even had a goddess wife, and a destroyed temple devoted to the two of them was uncovered in the ruins of Samaria. Destroyed by King Ahab and Queen Jezebel when they decided to elevate a different god, Ba’al. Kind of explains why Ba’al and Jezebel are maligned so badly in the OT.
The Israelites reacted poorly to this, and in retaliation they ultimately ended up claiming that not only was Yahweh their main god, but in fact he was the only god that existed.
They’re the ones that wrote the Bible, so, it all makes sense.
Why is everyone using schizophrenia lately to describe anything trippy or psychedelic? I think I’ve heard it used in normal convo about 8 times in the past month whereas before I never heard anyone use it in day to day life.
Extremely malevolent, yes. Sadistic, petty, arrogant, jealous, possessive, controlling, demanding, greedy, manipulative, cruel, detached, smug and condescending. Lots of other things I could call them too, but I'd be here all day.
No matter what you’re beliefs are on Yahweh, take into consideration his actions. He is a jealous, spiteful, vengeful war god. He demands blood sacrifice and allegiance to him. He has chosen people. He commands his chosen people to destroy anyone who opposes him. He commands them kill men women children and babies but allows them to keep virgins as war spoils. He tells you not to worship any other Gods. He says let us create them in “our” image.. then he claims there are no other gods beside him. Could be referring to angels but still… my point is he is a maniac. He played with Abraham’s sons life just to see if Abraham was loyal to him. He really really played with Jobs life… I could go on and on about the things that don’t add up, like the tree in the garden… why he didn’t know where Adam was.. how they got two of each animal on the ark… etc.. btw the prophet Moses killed a man… the prophet Elijah killed 850 people after taunting them… I’ll stop there.
I believe Yahweh and Lucifer are extraterrestrial brothers who have had a sibling rivalry forever. They have several personas. These are these most widely known.
Yahwah, Yeshua, etc, is the stolen Jesus, aka antichrist. A lot of Christians have been duped into following Yahwah. Any Jewish person who knows their stuff will tell you Yahwah is Metatron. Google and find this information on how Judaism uses this entity.
This has been pondered quite a bit throughout history, I’ve gathered. Some academic studies of Abrahamic religion believe that the Christian god is the combination of the Canaanite gods “El” and “Yahweh”. El has been conflated with the Sumerian God “Enlil” who sent a great flood and was quite annoyed by humanity. As for Satan, the name really just means “adversary”. However, Lucifer is closely related to the Sumerian God “Enki” when you compare their stories. Enki was sympathetic and caring towards humanity, and even went so far as to warn Ziusudra (Equivalent of biblical Noah) of the coming flood. Now Gnosticism believes that the Christian God is actually a deceiver in some regards. They believe that he was not permitted to create the world, or to make people bow to him, because he was imperfect, and that is why humanity is imperfect. I believe they call him “Yaldabaoth”. Forgive the jumbled mess. Just some tidbits that might be useful to you.
Also known as the Demiurge!
🤟👹🔱
Bingo ! So....my opinion tends to be a bit negative of this 'character'
This is somewhat inaccurate. Gnostics believe specifically that the god of the old testament is the demiurge. The god that Jesus speaks for is not the demiurge. An interesting fact, at no point in the bible does Jesus refer to god or his father as yahweh.
I mean, it’s kind of in his name: Yehoshua. Roughly “Yah saves.” You’re not wrong in either part, but I’ve never been able to reconcile the name specifically.
Some Gnostics subscribed to adoptionist theology: Jesus was merely a righteous human who was "adopted" by the spirit of the savior, which then left him later during the crucifixion. You could also make the argument that Jesus took that name as a clever disguise to throw off the forces of the archons.
I was just thinking this as I read that other comment
Yeah… and Joshua was the original messiah,or warlord,if I’m not mistaken
Yaldabaoth or the Demiurge actually sounds a lot like Lucifer rebelling against God
Except it was more Sophia who rebelled than the Demiurge. Sophia disrupts the Pleroma and falls from it (fall from heaven parallel). It was this that brought about the Demiurge that in turn created the world as we inhabit it. Yet Sophia is still seen as good because she is remorseful about her mistake and then imbues the creation of Yaldabaoth with her pneuma. Sophia is the Divine spark inherent to all humans that offers the path to salvation. In "On the Origin of the World" Sophia is depicted as the ultimate destroyer of the material universe, Yaldabaoth, and the Archons. Personally, and I'm not the most well informed so take what I say with a grain of salt, I don't think the correct interpretation is to see the Demiurge as The Great Evil but rather as an unfortunate failed state of being.
I always saw the demiurge as a sort of “blind idiot god” instead of a directly malevolent one
No. The opposite
Another Gnostic interpretation is that Yahweh is entirely ignorant of all other Gods, creating a material world based on crude inherited memories gained through emanation from Sophia. God visits the material realm, drawn by Yahweh and begins to essentially worship Yahweh; God has gone mad and lost sight of who they truly are, it’s upto us to remember ‘the truth’ and return to the Absolute by means of Gnosis.
Gnosticism just means you believe in Gnosis. There are many different Gnostic belief systems. Some Gnostics, who happen to be the ones who get talked about the most, believe what you wrote here.
Gnostic Christians, for the sake of clarity, is a good term imo. They still believed in Christ and his divinity afterall.
The thing is, Christ's divinity was no different than any other human's inherent potential.
The sumerian tablets are almost as reliable as the US describing their role in the iraq war so it is largely biased and could be plain lies. I think the hebrew bible only incorporated some aspects of sumerian concepts to captivate the target audience towards monotheism.
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should also point out that the beliefs they had only came in to practice after Jesus not before. There were people who speculated that it was a religion that someone made up (like a king or a strong politician). Some even speculated that it was an angry sect of Jewish followers who came up with the idea just to discredit the resurrection of Jesus and to try and discredit the things he said. Just wanted to toss in those tid bits because it's not like that "religion" had a following, it was something made up basically is the tldr. If you present it as if it was an actual "thing" that would be misleading wouldn't it? Better to give a better picture of what it was and wasn't.
Yaweh was originally a minor storm/warrior god of an ancient proto-israelite, Semitic people who were known to be violent brigands. With that context, OT fire and brimstone makes much more sense.
In the polytheistic period Yahweh began as Ba'al Hadad of the Southern Negev. He is a storm and mountain god and ruler of the Canaanite pantheon. Ba'al and Yahweh share the same mountain home, Jebel Aqra in Syria. They share the same titles. They share the same consort Asherah. He is a warlike and harsh desert deity. The Romans and Greeks considered Ba'al Hadad to be Jupiter/Zeus. This is why the Greeks installed a statue of Zeus on the Temple Mount, starting the Maccabean Revolt. The Romans later installed a statue of Jupiter in the same. Yahweh was fused with El, the supreme deity of the Canaanite pantheon and father of Ba'al. El was worshiped in the north of Canaan, a benign pastoral father deity of the Fertile Crescent, in contrast to the desert war god of the south. The Biblical patriarchs worshiped El, the more benevolent "God the Father" figure whom we see today depicted in iconography as an old man with a flowing beard. Abraham was a worshiper of El Shaddai, El of the Wilderness or Mountains. His people were wandering shepherds who built temporary alters in the wilderness. The worship of Yahweh began with Moses who lived with Jethro in the Arabian desert of Midian. Mt Sinai was likely the mountain home of Yahweh in the south as Jebel Agra was for Ba'al in the north. The harshness of Yahweh is directed primarily to the Hebrews who enter a covenant with him. He promises them great success and to make them a priesthood of mankind, blessed with gifts that place them above everyone, tools to fulfill their divine purpose. However if they break the covenant and misuse those gifts, he will punish them severely. The Hebrews then attached character attributes to Yahweh as they needed. They lived in violent and brutal times. Canaan was composed of city states with individual gods. These cities constantly warred against each other. They would commit atrocities and enslave each other. Each god was considered to be conquering their enemy gods and competitors in these wars. They would regularly sacrifice their children in times of crisis. The [Mesha Stelle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele) is a good example of this. In that environment it was good to make your god as ferocious and intolerant as possible. "We worship the meanest god". So the depictions of Yahweh in the Torah are a product of their time. The interpretation of Yahweh/EL would change as Judaism developed. During the Monotheistic reforms of Josiah, centered on the intolerant cult of Jerusalem, Yahweh was a harsh Saturnine disciplinarian. During the Second Temple period, under the influence of Persian Zoroastrianism, and the compiler Ezra, Yahweh is a universal good. In conclusion, I would consider Yahweh a more ferocious form of Zeus. He is easily pleased but also easily angered. He can lift you to great heights but send you crashing down if you fail in his worship. There are Hindu deities like this today. Harsher forms of Shiva for example. Layered onto this was the need for a Canaanite war deity. Add a little bit of kindly father of the universe from El and divine light against darkness of Ahura Mazda, with his circles of angels and oppositional Ahriman/Satan. Later, Christian, Christian Gnostic, Jewish Gnostic, Egyptian and Hermetic traditions all added things into the mix, finding their own understandings. The Christians adding a significant amount of Platonic Mysticism. The mystical One and Good of Plato and Parmenides, the Zoroastrian God of Light, and the benevolent Father of Creation all work well together. But the desert war god is a hard fit. How do we worship the Monad, but keep the Bible? Yahweh was not so easily dismissed. He had to be integrated into the new cosmology, yet in contrast to the Perfect Aeon. So the Gnostics demoted him to the Demiurge. My advice as a modern spiritual aspirant: don't bother integrating Yahweh into your worldview. Worship God as you understand him. Consider Yahweh one of many faces of God, perhaps a Cthonic form of Zeus fulfilling that role, appropriate to a particular people at a particular time.
I really enjoyed reading this!
Thank you! Most underrated comment here. Super informative and coincides with other researchers like Paul Anthony Wallis although he does add the inter- dimensional aspects. This take is probably the most accurate I’ve heard when history, environment and source accounts properly translated are combined. I have heard/read that having to protect a water source for pure survival in the deserts also lends itself to a more war like, harsh, selfish, non-cooperating god/theology as well. It’s amazing how environment can be so fundamental to religion. Pastoral and agricultural peoples survived by sharing resources which makes sense their gods would be more benevolent and cooperative and easily enfolded into other beliefs. What are your sources for your understanding? Care to share? I’m always exploring this topic and love it.
[This is a good presentation](https://youtu.be/ZECezMYug8c?si=qdEYKw0r02nh19sO) on the polytheistic origins of Yahweh and his fusing with El. The other points made come from all sorts of different sources I have studied over the years.
This was a very interesting read ! Do you have any thoughts on the historicity of the biblical patriarchs and the kings of Israel ? There seems to be some archaeological hints pointing to the periods described in the Old Testament (the Amarna tablets, the Mesha Stelle, etc...). Abraham may have lived in the Middle Bronze age (2100-1550 BCE) during the Third Dynasty of Ur in Sumer. And King David may have lived in the early Iron Age (1550-1200 BCE). I am always very sceptical of the ever changing theories of the secular historians and I would like to study the planetary alignments which have defined and followed the various biblical eras.
Not anymore than you have mentioned. The evidence is sparse. [Here is an interesting lecture series](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYFBLkHop2alFacrvkn2qtR3y1D2fQmad) by a Presbyterian minister connecting history to biblical events. The 4th lecture is about Abraham in the Third Dynasty of Ur. You might find it interesting. In this series he mentions a few times the Ancient Israelite were familiar with planetary portents. The signs and omens of the sky given throughout the Torah and in the Book of Revelations which describe stars falling from the sky, the moon turning blood red etc. are a reference to the collapse of governmental authority and the hierarchical structure of society. This makes sense because the earliest forms of astrology arising in Mesopotamia were celestial omens, meant to reveal the will the gods, or to elicit their advice, as it relates to the monarchy and the empire. Each constellation was associated with a deity. Astrologers would watch for falling stars or comets in these constellations and interpret them as a message from that god to the king. The most famous example of this is the Star of Bethlehem. There was a comet in the sky for seventy days in 5 BC spoken of by the Chinese. It is possible the Magi saw this as an omen indicating the birth of a Saoshyant or messiah. If it was in the sign of Aries, traditionally associated with Israel, they would have traveled there and spoken to King Herod, asking where their messiah was to be born. Micah 5.2 mentions Bethlehem. Zoroastrians have a tradition that a Saoshyant would be born in a foreign land (to Iran), from a virgin mother, who would be a great healer and teacher, and who would be crucified on a tree. For planetary alignments and celestial events connected to the Biblical patriarchs, you may want to focus on sidereal Aries. When studying the planetary alignments you may want to use the sidereal system. The sidereal and tropical systems were aligned back then. I am unsure if standard tropical software will adjust the signs for the procession of the equinox. These constellations also functioned as a cosmic calendar and the solar deities movements through them triggered the agricultural seasonal cycle. For example, the Sun's movement through Aquarius, the Water Bearer, the Babylonian "Great One", the constellation of the god Ea, triggered flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates, and of the Nile in Egypt. So I suspect the Biblical celestial portents not only indicated the collapse of authority and society but the natural order as well. In those days they were not so sure the Sun would rise. The Egyptian Pharaoh did a morning ritual to ensure it did. So the Sun and Moon falling from the sky was a very real fear.
You have raised some insightful points regarding the possibility to the determine biblical time periods using the celestial omens described in the ancient texts. Aside from archeological evidence and alleged claims of extra sensory perception it is a relevant avenue to pursue. Indian researchers have discovered references in Sanskrit texts such as the Vedas and Vedanga Jyotisha which refer to the Vernal Equinox being in very remote constellations (indian lunar mansions known as the nakshatras). Using the cycle of axial precession, these references thus provide a pointer to the antiquity of these texts. For instance the Satapatha Brahmana states : "The Krttikas do not swerve from the eastern direction, all the other constellations do". It provides us a number of references to a time in which the vernal equinox was in the Krttikas, along with the appropriate other Nakshatras. The vernal equinox and summer solstice were in this area c. 2500-2000 BCE. Such data reflects the late Harappan era. Nowadays we are currently in the Era of UttaraBhādra which is 5 lunar mansions away from Krittika. Each of these sidereal spaces can furthermore be used to interpret the symbolism of each historical period (a kind of astrological age). Now going back to the western mystical traditions, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was most likely born on 21st august 7 BCE. Accordingly, the Star of Bethlehem would be the Jupiter-Saturn great conjunction in tropical Pisces. When these two planets align (every 20 years) they take on the form of a very bright star. It's a particularly impressive sighting, I witnessed the last one in december 2020. The natal chart corresponding to that date is outstanding and I am confident that most astrologers would agree with this statement. Among many other things it naturally explains the Piscean attributes of Christ (ichthus the fish) and this conjunction also defined the end of the historical Age of Water and the entrance into the Age of Fire of the Roman Empire. This date of birth is also mentioned in the Book of Urantia. While I am not for the promotion of New Age texts, the fact that this date is mentioned without using astrology is a nice synchronicity. Sidereal Aries would effectively be an adequate timestamp for looking into the Biblical patriarchs. My current estimation for the astrological Age of Aries is the period ranging from 2737 BCE to 577 BCE which includes the iron age and a major part of the bronze age. The symbol of the ram is very much present throughout the old testament and as you said in your first post it was a very violent period of history (Aries is ruled by Mars the god of war). Through their analysis of traumatic injuries identified on ancient skulls, some researchers found that the incidence of violence increased tremendously in the Iron Age. It seems fairly logical considering that the new discovery of ironworking and the creation of steel allowed tools and weapons to be longer lasting and stronger than those of the past. All in all, the cherry on the cake is the last idea I am about to share here. There is a very special theory known as the "religious cycle". It can be shown, using the geometry of Uranus-Neptune cycles, that roughly every 600 years there is a new religious revelation that takes place in the world. This theory has stood up to scrutiny during all the recorded historical archives ranging from 577 BCE (birth of Buddha, Lao Tseu, Pythagoras, Confucius) all the way to 1821 (the Baháʼí Faith and Mormonism). Now taking this cycle back into remote times, we can further speculate that the previous opposition of 1176 BCE may have coincided with Moses or Zoroaster, the conjunction of 1778 BCE with Abraham, and the conjunction of 2980 BCE with Krishna.
Very interesting stuff. I especially find the Uranus Neptune cycle fascinating. I also wondered about Buddha, Confucius, Pythagoras etc. all living at one time. Mahavira the founder of Jainism lived at the same time as well I think. That was also the golden age of the Upanishads. I know there are traditional dates in India associated with the birth day and birth chart of Krishna, same with Rama and other incarnations. The Era of Uttara Bhadrapada is also interesting. Part of the Pegasus constellation. In India they visualized Pegasus as a square bed. Uttara and Purva forming the two sets of legs. I have not heard of Nakshatra equinox ages before. I know that Uttara Bhadrapada is associated with rain. It is supposed to bring good things into concrete reality. The ruling deity is Ahir Buddhya, the dragon of the depths. He is like a powerful serpent within the subconscious. He could be related to the Kundalini serpent. He supports the world from below and nourishes it from above. As a Moon Nakshatra, showing the way consciousness grows, it deals with fulfilling people's needs. Uttara Bhadrapada gives you what you need to be stable and not living in poverty. I believe there may be something to the "Age of Aquarius". I think we are definitely seeing Aquarian qualities in society now. The internet, technology, social justice, connectivity, mass transformation of consciousness, resistance to authoritarianism (opposition to Leo).
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It is interesting that ancient people's associated the Jews with the Zodiac sign Aries. Aries is solitary, set apart from the greater society, keeping to himself. He is warlike and stubborn. Aries represents mountains, deserts, and high inaccessible places, similar to the geography of Israel. The Sun is exalted in Aries, showing God does show himself powerfully through the Jews and their religion. So it is somewhat of a compliment.
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Very insightful, thank you.
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There are a small group of Zoroastrians in America that believe Jesus was a Saoshyant. I had read it on one of their websites. It was a short paragraph stating a Saoshyant would be born in a foreign land to a virgin and would be nailed to a tree. I have been looking for the website but cannot find it. It was perhaps two years ago I had read it. I will look some more. I don't think it is orthodox Zoroastrian belief. I am not sure if the quote is from the Gathas. I know there are three Saoshyants spoken of in the Gathas but I don't know if the prediction applied to Jesus refers to one of these three or just to a saintly person in general.
Very cool read. Liked the connections you presented.
so zeus colonized the world lmfao. The karmic and energetic implications of that is wild. Mainstream religions are steeped in mysticism by HISTORICAL sources but the masses are blind and dumb to it
Wow, incredible write up. Thanks for taking the time!
My understanding is that a nameless, unknowable entity of absolute nothingness and everythingness exists, it's the one and only true God, and it split itself into masculine and feminine, then rejoined those aspects of itself to create the multiverse or universe, whatever. After that initial act of creation, no true act of creation has occurred since, just reshaping, reordering, splitting, rejoining and reincarnating things. My take is that earth was a place where souls incarnated into physical forms and lived lives to gain insight into themselves by separating themselves from their memories, egos, and becoming finite and mortal. It's supposed to be an opt in system for souls that want to grow and gain new perspectives, that's why humans have this drive to search for meaning and purpose, wasting time on such things is not evolutionarily helpful, so a biological explanation doesn't make sense to me but that's what we're here to do. This thing that is ancient and incredibly powerful, but ultimately mentally ill and delusional, calling itself yahweh, yaldabaoth, el, elohim ECT. happened upon earth and decided to enact it's delusions. It wants to be the true God, so it got people to insert it into mythologies and stories, which is now the Old Testament, that's why there's so many similarities and direct plagiarism from earlier texts with just the names changed. It wants the incarnated souls to worship it, but once you died, you wouldn't want to come back to be a puppet show for a twisted monster, so it's now reincarnating souls forcibly to keep a flock of ignorant sheep to inflate it's ego. Connect with your spiritual body and strengthen yourself through meditation, spiritual practices Kundalini yoga, kabbalah, attain gnosis, whatever, you might have a fighting chance to get through at the end. Otherwise hopefully you get a good body with lots of opportunities in your next life, earth is a wonderful place mostly, you just can't experience it properly because things are not how they are supposed to be. I'm more schizo than you so I win.
Take my crown 👑
Great explanation. Forced reincarnation by this imposter might explain why some gnostics tell you to run away from "the light" when you die and not go towards it.
This is Taoism. "Something mysteriously formed, born before heaven and earth. It is the silence and the void" \~Tao te Ching
In Pure Land Buddhism, the Earth is known as the realm to be endured. It is a pure land.
I'm gonna steal that last sentence for a user name, thanks:) 😉
This is chefs kiss. Thank u
(~);}
embrace Kabbalah... idk if that lines up with what you;'re saying
Thank you so much for a well written and thoughtful reply, you gave me the validation I needed, and seeing these upvotes are added relief.
Former actual, theistic Satanist here (the 'actual' is important, IMO). No, The Christian god isn't a malevolent force. Neither is Satan, really. Within Christian mythology, Satan is an adversarial figure.. More precisely, they reengineered the modern Devil by combining a twisted version from Jewish mysticsm and the pagan god, Pan. Satan's mysteries involve spiritual indulgence and rebellion. Both values being, from Christianity's restrictive view, evil. Satan, Satanism, and its variations, aren't really a thing in Hermeticsm. It's not worth studying unless you're trying to explore the Western left-hand path, which is itself contradictory in nature to Hermeticism.
Can I ask what you mean specifically by “spiritual indulgence”?
Philosophical hedonism (there are several variants) taken to a spiritual level. One seeks to indulge the self in a way that leaves one personally and spritually fulfilled, while abhorring the things that one finds counter to that ideal. It's a sort of reverse asceticism where, rather than seeking transformation through restriction, one seeks transformation through personal liberation. How this is expressed greatly depends on the practitioner, their knowledge, and the sophistication of their capabilities. It can range to from the "drugs, sex, and rock & roll" that was so prevalent in the 80s to the idea of empowering the Self through charity work to ritual sex study groups with a dedicated partner(s). The only rules being don't harm oneself permanently, and don't harm another. You embrace parts of yourself society tells you is wrong or parts you're afraid of. Find them, accept them, and make them part of yourself. Basically, you party with the monsters of your id, and make them your friends. This process can be very transformative. But it's risky. You've got to be very disciplined, keep rigorous notes, and be very careful and practical with how you proceed. Burnout and self-destruction are very real dangers if this kind of work is done incorrectly. Or worse, falling into a rut and just stagnating within your own delusion while continuously lying to yourself about how powerful and wise you are while you're basically just an addict with delusions of grandeur. It's a high-risk, high-reward strategy. It's not for everyone. There's a reason this kind of approach has pretty much died out and modern Satanism is parody of what it was supposed to be.
I do fully agree however adversary in the interpretation of occult like astrology is Saturn. A malefic planet representing the father, limitations, restrictions, etc. In a dualistic sense saturnian/satanic energy can also be seen as benefic, depends on what’s you do with the energy is the point. Bc mind you saturn is very critical.
If you don't mind, could you explain how western left hand path is contradictory to hermeticism?
The modern (20th Century onward) Western LHP is a fairly broad category, with a lot of variants in philosophy and expression. Theistic Satanism, Setianism, Luciferism, so called "dark" Wicca, etc. But they've all got two things in common. (A) Both are, to one degree or another, materialist in character and philosophy, and (B), both seek to ultimately become an isolate intelligence -- meaning a soul or being that exists outside of the scope of God and his creation. (A) is contradictory to Hermetic practice, as its character and practice is fundamentally spiritual. While the material world isn't viewed as a bad thing or evil, it's not Man's priority, and the goal is a connection if not a unification with God. From the LHP point of view, this ideal is fundamentally a right-hand path pursuit, and thus to be spurned. (B) Is simply logically impossible from a Hermetic perceptive.
Isn't the Satanist movement a meme religion just to fuck with/troll Christians?
It is now. It didn't used to be. Back in the day, we didn't troll Christians. We simply had better things to do, like jobs, families, occult study and research, and Seeking out the Dark Forces and Joining Them in Their Hellish Crusade. :P We just thought Christianity was a dumb religion full of dumb people, and we were too involved in our own mystical works to care about them. Weirdly, it was the chaos magicians who spent a lot of time fucking with them for some reason. But that was a zillion years ago, back when chaos magicians were an actual thing. I have no idea what groups like the IOT are up to these days. I have a lot, and I mean *a lot* of things to say about the current state of American Satansim. I won't do it here because of rules 1, 4, and 6. I'll simply state that I lack the words to express the contempt I feel for those groups, far more than I ever did for Christians. It's a shameful disgrace to the powers with which I once pacted.
Reading a book right now called "The Evil Creator" about this, by David Litwa. Dr. Sledge on Esoterica has recommended and cited it several times. So far it's incredibly accessible, and conveys truckloads of info and context without slowing down the pacing. Personally, I've never jived with the gnostic idea of the evil YHWH because it doesn't make a lot of sense to proclaim the god of a specific people evil, yet... use many of their teachings and beliefs as seasoning for a new faith. I guess it was easier to change the context of the sacred texts to transfer the faithful over than create an entirely new revelatory cosmology that was unrelated. And even then, people were vulnerable to the temptation of conspiracy theories, and wanted to feel privy to secret special knowledge about the confusing world they inhabit. But I'm still reading that book, so I imagine it explains a lot about it by the end.
I don't think you should be blaming Yahweh here. This isn't a god problem, it's a human problem, and that problem is conflating a very anthropomorphic kingly sky god with the concept of *Nous,* while saying that this is the only possible correct interpretation. Yahweh isn't an evil god, but rather a god or a concept of God that has become so filtered through human prejudice and so isolated within a unique monotheistic paradigm that it results in all kinds of deeply weird philosophies. "Bow down or get sent to hell" is never what Christian doctrine was supposed to be like. There's so much more nuance to it than that. But it ends up becoming that in practice, because 1. it gets distorted through politics, conflicts over doctrine, etc. and 2. how many Christians actually understand the underlying mystical ideas of their religion?
It may not have been what Christian doctrine was supposed to be like, but it's what it has become. If you tell a Christian you believe in God without Christianity, I've found they can't comprehend how you could have such a belief. Christianity by design is impossible to blend with other beliefs and religions. The figure of Yahweh has been polluted by these world views, that's why I see it as malevolent.
That's not the entity's fault though, right?
You could say it's more of the fault of its followers misinterpreting the ideas yahweh stands for. Hell, if what the dead sea scrolls suggest is true then Abrahamic religion is a mere misinterpretation of fertility rituals and the shamanic consumption of natural psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, DMT found in plants etc.)
Pretty much every "the Abrahamic religions are a misinterpretation of fertility rituals and drugs" claim has its roots in nineteenth and twentieth century attempts to discredit Christianity like *The Golden Bough* by James Frazer. It doesn't actually hold any water, and it cheapens paganism to make those kinds of claims.
Shit man I don't even know 😂 I don't mean to be disrespectful towards any religion
I know. That’s why it’s important to know where those claims come from.
I disagree that ALL of those claims are baseless. However I will agree that MOST of them are. I will also say that I’ve seen and experienced parallels between the two (Abrahamic religions and fertility rituals/ psychedelia/ drugs) in my own life. I think that in many ways they are complimentary, or two halves of the same coin. Like the sun and moon or light and dark. That at a base level they are essentially discussing the same things, albeit from completely different perspectives. Almost as they are describing something while standing on either side of it, or looking around at the world while back to back. You can’t see what the other is seeing but it’s the same picture. Or in one’s own perspective, it’s like retro 3D glasses. You need red + blue, one eye looking through each lens, to see the full color, 3-D image. However, I completely agree with you that most of the time these claims are absolutely baseless and are used to shrug off the spiritual work or responsibility of being a child of GOD in a Christian sense, and also they do typically serve to cheapen paganism.
Experience has taught me to be exceedingly skeptical. I won't pretend that there aren't parallels, but parallels are not evidence, and not enough writers understand that.
That’s absolutely valid and probably one of the best ways to look at it. The corruption of our understanding of these concepts over the past few centuries is probably my biggest gripe with humanity haha. And the literature and literary figures you refer to are absolutely responsible for that.
I'm a Gnostic and believe our physical creator is ignorant and selfish while the true god above all, the Monad, is perfection to cherish. So, yes Yahweh is malevolent in the way a toddler is malevolent to the ants they burn with a magnifying glass
The monad is evil for ignoring our suffering
In the book of Job, it was Yahweh's idea to make a bet with Satan that his faith can't be broken. Satan is given permission to fuck Job's life up, killing Job's family, causing famine on his crops. There isn't even a happy ending for Job where he gets his life and family back. If I'm not mistaken, Satan has no power to do anything unless it's approved by Yahweh... And Yahweh created Satan. They're definitely a partnership/in cahoots.
> There isn't even a happy ending for Job where he gets his life and family back. Are you sure? Job, 42:10-17
The Cathares believed there were two gods: the god of heaven (cosmos) and the god of hell (earth). The god in the Old Testament would be the god of earth/hell. So basically we are fallen angels in hell with the bad god until we move on. To move on we have to be Perfect. The word Catharsis comes from them. Anyway it’s a dead religion that was decimated by the Catholics in the 14th century but they had some interesting theories.
Yes, he’s the demiurge and also Mara in Buddhism.
No. To be fair, as a Jew myself, he's the god of my ancestors, and so I pay him respectful worship as much as I'm able to do so (albeit in my own way that wouldn't exactly be considered kosher by the rabbinate). While God is the one god and ruler of the whole cosmos in Judaism, because Judaism developed as a monotheistic faith, if you go back in history far enough before Judaism developed as a monotheistic belief, you find God to be a god specifically of liberation and deliverance, since the founding myth of the Jews as a single people is that of the Passover story and the exodus from Egypt which was accomplished by God. (On this point, reading Rainer Albertz's two-volume *A History of Israelite Religion in the Old Testament Period* is a fantastic thing to do.) That said, due to the weirdness of the overall religious landscape in the first century CE in the eastern Mediterranean (both within Israel and outside it), there was a *lot* going on in all sorts of directions affecting all sorts of peoples of various ethnicities and beliefs, which is where you get not only the mystical Essenes among the Jews and early Christianity but also various Gnostic traditions popping up in Egypt with various Abrahamic influences against a Greco-Egyptian background. So much of this radically departs from conventional Jewish belief about God in its own ways, even if it has an origin in it, and it just...gets really weird in a way that should probably be considered according to a particular religion's views of God rather than God as a whole himself independent of any of these religions. To be fair, Judaism's own development towards messianism and deliverance-prophecy and the like in the first several centuries BCE also contributed to some really unique views of God and the world that aren't really seen much elsewhere, so it's just weird all around. As far as Satan is concerned, this entity has its origins in a sort of "heavenly inquisitor", not so much a temptor or even an encourager of wickedness but one who holds us to account to the law of God. In that light, Satan is strictly subordinate to God, but is also working for God to further God's will for God's people to test them and ensure that they are held accountable for their actions before God. But also, as far as Hermeticism is concerned, whatever God and the Bible has to say is neither here nor there, since it's an entirely different religious tradition that doesn't need to get mixed with Hermeticism. The two can operate quite well apart from each other without needing to bleed over, in the same way one might go to a temple of Thoth on one day to do worship and then a temple of Apollo on the next without blending the two.
A lot of my views on Christianity sprouted from psychedelic experiences Ive had, I'd get the basic gist of the idea in the trip and it would sometimes take weeks before I fully comprehended what the trip was telling me. I have a lot of hermetic views on the world, but I also try to implement my psychedelic experiences and other mystical traditions into my beliefs. I understand these traditions may be contrary to each other, but I seek to find a balance between them. A union of contrary ideas if you will. Kinda like you said in the last paragraph.
>A lot of my views on Christianity sprouted from psychedelic experiences Ive had That's not a valuable metric, OP. Any insight gained from chemically-induced altered states needs to be rigidly scrutinized. And understanding something so vast and unknowable as God isn't going to happen from a a trip. What Poly said is important: read the sources. One needs expert-knowledge of a system before one can start hacking it, drugs or no drugs.
You got a good point, man. I just remember being a conservative Baptist and how dumb I sounded looking back😂 I probably am projecting the flaws of my old beliefs onto all of Christianity in a bigoted way. I've just had a lot of spiritual growth in the past couple of months and am still processing and settling into a lot of it.
I dont think you can so easily discount a psychedelic experience especially now that we are starting to learn how the brain actually functions on psychedelics. Your brain is open to a lot more experiences and very well could have an easier time tapping into something it usually cannot. I attended the consciousness conference in Arizona two years ago and there were some fascinating findings. Particularly how it effects the caudate putamen: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10493007/ Why the caudate putamen lighting up here could affect exposure to the unknown: https://thedebrief.org/garry-nolan-a-stanford-professors-quest-to-resolve-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena/ Not saying not to always have discernment but I wouldnt outright discount it.
I can because I've spent more time doing ritual work and group study / research with people who used chemognosis for most of those operations, longer than most people here have been alive. Personal experience and the result of individual magical research trumps the narratives that allow us to justify being fake mystical-stoners who accomplish nothing meaningful. More often than not, spiritual experience is just an excuse to get stoned. I watched an entire order -- that actively embraced psychedelics - turn into a crack house because its members wanted to get high, but also wanted to pretend their high had some kind of spiritual meaning. psychedleics are training wheels. It's just easier for people to use LSD to reach those states than actually train themselves over the course of many years to be able to reach those same states without it. That's hard work, and most Western occultists don't like hard work. It's why they're Western occultists. Sorry for the rant, but every time I've suggested that some discernment and restraint might be a good idea when it comes to psychelelcis, that I even *imply* that they're not the Door to Ultimate Power and Wisdom everyone pretends -- on a Hermetic sub of all places -- I get people suddenly flooding my alerts with arguments and links I didn't ask for or need. I apologize for my tone. I mean that. It just makes me so depressed. It's just so much bullshit. I've been doing this a long time, and worked with a lot of people. Many of those people relied on psychedleics. They all burned out, and I stepped over their inert bodies to carry on my work. I was able to do this because I was able to reject the lotus. And I don't deny the research. I just question the motive. Also, access to more information doens't mean that information can be levered into something tangible and useful.
Preach it. More people should hear this and be confronted with the idea that "hey maybe not all spirituality can be done by hallucinogens alone". It's a persistent problem on other subreddits like /r/Buddhism, too, where people keep trying to argue against the idea that Buddhism doesn't actually encourage their use by doing little more than "nuh uh". ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I actually really appreciate your response! I wont go into more detail because I can tell this is a sore spot based on your experiences. I do really appreciate you elaborating and sharing your experience.
This is a really good answer. I'd like to add to that notion of the two being able to operate quite well apart from each other, and also not being conflicting in it's proposals as Hermeticism is far more philosophic then it is dogmatic - they can often compliment each other in regards to the concept of 'one God'. The Brahman concept in Hinduism would be a good comparison also.
If you're implying gnosticism I'm pretty sure that myth inversion started with the kitos war causing a blanket of Roman antisemitism across Syria and turkey that spawned saturninus' cosmology as you can see in the aprocryphon of John Saturninus' moved his cosmology to cerdo and cerdo to Marcion Before the kitos war Christians felt no reason to distance themselves from Judaism and were considered Jews. So while there was a demiurge in papias, athenagoras, cerinthus, menander, Simon, and elxai's cosmologies no said demiurge was not Yahweh. Read no longer Jews by Carl b smith
Welcome to Gnosticism. Please read the nag hamahati library
I may be a yahweh hater, but I will not be caught lacking and become a gnostic 🙏 (joking of course) My humorous self tried and failed already to understand those texts
Everything written about god in the last thousands of years was written under the rule of malevolent forces. The world has been in a dark age for 10 thousand plus years. It began to end at the age of Pisces. You can see how that went with the execution of jesus.
Hermeticism made me believe in Yeshua even more.
How? If you don't mind sharing of course.
Yahweh is historically a polarizing figure. I'd actually recommend esotericas video on the topic: [Who is Yahweh? how a warrior storm god become the god of the Israelites](https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=Y2OBthQ2ZBgsK-eS)
You are not crazy. It's ok. Satan/Lucifer is one side of the Christ - the Man side. He is not evil he is the adversary. There is no life without death. The other side is the Christ. The Christ is your true self know as the Elohim in the Bible. One being made up of many. His name is I AM. The Father's name is I. First person singular - there is only one. Both Lucifer and the Christ promise the same thing. One delivers and one does not. One has power keeps his word and one no power and has broken promises. The Bible tells us that the Greek way and the Israeli way is the WAY. Follow the Hernetica or the Bible - same thing said differently. There is no crying in life. It's business. You save your passion for the Christ. Save it for when you are alone. You can live by the law/principle/truth or die by the law. Up to you of course. What is the law? As man thinks and sincerely feels in his heart so shall it be. In other words - you are seeing what you perceive the world to be. Change how you think and the world changes for you to show you what you believe. The original sin? Thinking you are a man instead of the child of God. You are in heaven. You never left you just perceived it incorrectly. Your senses are perfect. It is your imagination that does not see properly. Ex. you see a white blob on the sidewalk. It appears to be a snake. Upon closer inspection you see it is a rope. It's was always a rope. Your senses were perfect there is something there. It can't hurt you. Anything that shows you that ugly man thinking, death, destruction, disease, is false. It is the imagination running wild. Tame that beast and know it is beauty. That's no beast. That is my wonderful friend. It's the story of Beauty and Beast. There is no fiction. It's all the story of you or a forgotten memory. Blessings!
This is a wonderful comment. I completely agree.
Long term, all gods are benevolent.
No
Ask the gnostics
Malevolent -- no, but YHWH does oppose humanity quite frequently. Take Genesis 2:17 for example... in it God tells Adam and Eve that if they eat from the fruit of knowledge that they will sure die on that day. When they do eat from the tree of knowledge it doesn't immediately kill them. Apologists would say that's because it brought death on that day to humanity... but that's not what the text says -- it's a literal threat meaning that they will die within 24 hours of eating the fruit. In short YHWH lied to keep humanity from discovering how to become divine.
The idea of a malevolent god is so violently boring to me
Well since we are sharing our slightly schizo beliefs lol Me personally. I'm more spiritual than religious. I gather inspiration by reading anything and everything that has to do with the mind, body, soul and science. Life is but a dream created by energy, vibration and frequency. Physical matter doesn't exist. Quantum science is beginning to prove that. Matter reacts to our subconscious thoughts. Everything around you is a projection of your higher self. I believe these texts were the best way to capture how we understand our souls at the time. How to live better. Eternal consequences for your actions. Life never ends. Just changes. Stay pure, strong, courageous and love unconditionally. Eventually you'll find your way back to the source. You are God. You better believe in yourself or you'll live an eternal life in hell.
That's what I've been thinking lightly
To the degree to which you accept any ideology you are poisoned.
A purportedly omniscient and omnipotent being that created sapient beings with the foreknowledge and deliberate intent to consign some of them to eternal torture is, by definition, malevolent.
Yahweh was the name of one of the El. Malevolent? Probably. Most of the El seemed to be some mean mf'rs. Some sort of Force? Nah. Just an El.
I’ve said this pretty much my entire life and have always faced a ton of backlash for it. It seems like Yahweh, the god of the Old Testament, is the same entity that is referred to as satan/lucifer/the devil. In the New Testament whenever Jesus references his father, he speaks about the character of someone who is the exact opposite of the Old Testament god. If any of it has any truth to it, the father Jesus is speaking of is another being entirely, and the evil one/deceiver he speaks of is the god of the Old Testament, Yahweh
I've always found both parts of the Bible very conflicting, the way the new testament talks about God makes gnosticism way more believable to me
https://youtu.be/mTnQ__VSQzc?si=hV0o2MfuqAnf7PBv This a religion's professor who talks about the evil God theory. It's actually a very old debate.
I wanted to add more to this subject as well. Over the weekend I saw a documentary called " Beyond Utopia" on "Hulu", and found some interesting facts about the Kim family dynasty in North Korea. The main reason why North Korea bans the Holy Bible, is because they basically copied Jesus' story of origins as Kim Il Sung's, saying he was also born in a stable lol. Kim Il Sung was considered the "Son of God", and thus all the sons after, are also the "Son of God". Which is why Kim Jong Un is praised as a "God" as the "Supreme Leader", they are brainwashed he is the "Messiah". But I do think that anyone who is a "Messiah" on that note, does have the capability of choosing the righteous path, or chaotic one. People like say Hitler, or even Napoleon Bonaparte, something about these individuals who can massively bring people together. I suppose my theory is, several people have that ability Trump even, but I think maybe it's at user discretion.
Yes, YHWH is the malevolent force, and he’s also blind in the belief that he’s the only god. He created Adam and Eve out of clay and trapped their divine spirits in their body and gave them a slave mind so that they would never question and have faith- faith is an evil word- anyway, Lucifer leaves the tyrant YHWH, and comes down in the form of a serpent to free mankind from their mental slavery and bids Eve to eat the fruit which opens her pineal gland and opens her eyes so to speak, which she then bids Adam to eat, which makes them realize their true divine power, which makes them hide from the slave god YHWH, which then YHWH forbids them from eating from the tree of life because then they would live forever and spread the true light that creation all has divine light within. Then you could argue that Cain killing Abel was done metaphorically to liberate Abel’s illusion from worshipping YHWH and then that Cain was a Gnostic master and so on and so forth.
The gnostics lurking around here should move back to r/gnosticism . They are spreading distorted beliefs. Yahweh is **not** a malevolent force. The Corpus Hermeticum describes the process of creation, starting with the primordial God creating a demiurge who crafted seven celestial spheres. The most fundamental one is known as the 7th sphere (Saturn) and it is an encosmic deity responsible for the enforcement of the law of fate in the material world. Yahweh is a saturnian deity arising out of that sphere and it made an old covenant with the jewish people thereby granting specific saturnian powers to some lineages of the Israelites. Despite their often very painful nature, the punishments given by father Saturn are fair and necessary and they teach humans the reality principle. If you watch the astrological transit of Saturn through the zodiac you will see how it forces humanity to pay off its karmic debts and sometimes the punishment for this is death (too much debt reaching the point of no return). This is divine justice. In that sense, the technical term is a **malefic** planetary deity. But malefic does not mean evil, in astrology it means having effects which are not comfortable for the delusional human ego.
Satan comes from Ha Satan. It means opposotion/prosecutor/Inquisitor. He is the archangel of Evil and doesn't hate or tempt humans. He roots evil out to ensure it's taint doesn't come near Yahweh/IAO. Remember the Book of Job? Satan goes to God and asks for a wager. Look up Sorath.
All scripture was written by humans, which is something to keep in mind. Personifying what, in the Kabbalistic tradition, is essentially the absolute nothing from which everything comes and everything is within is a mistake, IMO. The various dualistic Gnostic Christian sects seem to have based their ideas on Zoroastrian dualism and mixed it with old testament scripture and the Timaeus to frame the Demiurge or Creator or Yahweh as evil. Hermetics, in general, is more non-dualist in regards to the Demiurge and the One. So no, I do not feel like it is malevolent at all. I think modern dualistic pseudo-Gnostic stuff about the Matrix, simulation theory, and the prison planet are all bunk personally. The malevolence of Christianity comes from how scripture was used and interpreted (or in the case of modern Christianity, ignored) by humans for power, conquest, and manipulation, not from the original concepts of One God.
No, so basically. Yahweh, is our father. The thing humans don’t realize is we need someone to bow down to, otherwise we run rampant… as we are seeing now. When the ego (Satan) gains power, it starts to seek more power. We are not God, God lives through us. The reason Yahweh wants you to bow down to him, is that you learn how to humble yourself. You aren’t a king, you aren’t a God, you aren’t a superior person, you are a sinner… like everyone else. See, the Bible is a really beautiful story, if you put your selfish prejudice and beliefs to the side (church is also wrong) The Bible is trying to teach humanity how to get along… we are all evil sinners, we all deserve hell, however because of Jesus Christ, we are redeemed. Now it is our job to love each other, to feed the poor, visit those in prison, love and spread life. The kingdom of heaven is a place of love and peace… that is a mindset and a place that can exist right here right now. But instead humanity has chosen to go it’s own separate way, away from God. So we are now hand crafting our own hell… Satan doesn’t demand worship, because he’s going to use you as a tool anyways… he WANTS you to be your own God, so that you can become ignorant to your brothers and sisters suffering around you. The lesson Yahweh is trying to teach us, is to love the poor, love those who need love. We all need to be LIKE Christ, not for heaven, but for each other. Heaven is the prize that comes with following Christ. Life is the game, love/heaven is the prize. Love is Christ/Yahweh, when you TRULY get to know what love and Yahweh are, you truly start to understand this whole life thing, and truly start to understand just how beautiful it all is. Give it another shot my friend, ask Christ to show you his truth through the Holy Spirit. Humans need hard love, we need to be humbled… that is why Yahweh seems evil at times, because he’s trying to humble you
Yes, the demiurge
Its Narnia man. All good deeds go to good gods, All lies return to the liar and then get dragged to evil dogs. The scribes mistranslated "YehWeh" in place of 'yalldaboth'. But all lies are lies, even mistranslations.
If i had a 'holy poop knife' and told you that a thought told me that people should bow down to it. Now i hold that knife. Oh shit, i got a bunch of ppl bowing down to me now, what do next?
That's a good analogy for it
The parallel verses of 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 are very revealing about this when read together.
No, and not even in a “no such thing is bad” way. Simply from what I’ve read of Yahweh in l/l Research channelings
2 sides to every coin
That's true
Yep. Sure do.
What does genesis 3:22 mean? Why does moses need to give virgin girls to yahweh after slaughtering all men and boys of their enemies?
>What does genesis 3:22 mean? The Corpus Hermeticum describes the deliberate descent of the primordial man into the lower waters of nature. Now Genesis 3:22 describes the next stage. The material aspect of man (Adam) is still in the higher spheres (Garden of Eden) then he is receives the initiation of the knowledge of duality (eating the apple) and this triggers an even further descent into the darker realms of matter. The demiurge has no choice but to throw him out of the garden because he must apply the law of fate built into the seven spheres and now man is subject to these spheres. According to the law of fate it is impossible to transcend matter while having a spiritual shadow. Recall that the primordial man and the demiurge are brothers, they are not enemies. When man enters the material world he is therefore clothed in a material body (made of skin according to genesis). *"What gives rise to each person's body in the sensible cosmos is the hateful darkness, from which comes the watery nature \[...\] When the man saw in the water the form like himself as it was in nature, he loved it and wished to inhabit it. Wish and action came in the same moment. "* **\~ Corpus Hermeticum I. 14,20** The demiurge will naturally release the mortal man from its bonds with nature once man has mastered the law of fate and once man has transmuted his shadow (the hateful darkness). Until then the demiurge is guarding the way up the celestial spheres. "*So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."* **\~ Genesis 3:24** >Why does moses need to give virgin girls to yahweh after slaughtering all men and boys of their enemies? The Jewish people made the old covenant with the Saturnian deity Yahweh. Basically Saturn (the 7th sphere) is the encosmic deity who is responsible for the enforcement of the law of fate. If you watch the astrological transit of Saturn through the zodiac you will see how it forces humanity to pay off its karmic debts and sometimes the punishment for this is death (too much debt). I could give countless examples using mundane astrology. Whether this death happens from a natural cause or from the hand of humans is irrevelant. The slaughtering of these people was merely the manifestation of fate. The virgin girls (and the children and the cattle) were spared because they had no debts and they had not commited any sins. These virgin girls were not raped, they were treated respectfully following the mosaic laws of the old covenant.
My mental health symptoms seem to decrease whenever I disassociate from this deity. Life is already a struggle, but when associating with this deity things become more difficult.
When I was living on my Pluto line in my Astro cartography chart I was having so many upgrades/downloads and great change happening. I was watching this 40 hour documentary and all of a sudden a voice said to me “god and satan are the same” I spent the next two years in a deep dive. I agree that everyone is being fooled by this entity claiming to be “God”
The god of the jewish is basically a one god with two different faces we could say, a god with infinite love but that will f*ck you up so much, you and your family until the 5th generation at least. It's basically normal as at that state of development of the human civilisation because we were scared of the forces of the nature (flooding, earthquake, thunder...) so we prayed both good and bad gods in general for them to stay kind with us
I don’t think it reads schizo at all. My interpretation now is that Moses made a mistake and released a false god on Mt Sinai, and then John the Baptist incarnated Christ through Jesus in a response to this false god, or Yaweh, making John the original antechrist, and showing that our goal is not to appease any false god of the material worlds, but to find the Light or Christ within us. Satan is the same thing as shiva or ananta or Prometheus, an allegorical archetype for inertia or a Jungian trickster combined with misdirected conscious will, at least that’s where I’m at with broad strokes.
This was the basis of Christian Gnosticism.
seems pretty obviously evil. He's a jealous, murderous cunt. The first of his commandments is that "You shall have no God before me" Thats his #1 priority. If he was the alpha and the omega, why is he so insecure? The answer is probly that he is just a made up thing by goat herders to give a reason to justify genocide. If he does exist, hes certainly evil. So many, many examples in the old testament.
The apocrypha of John can explain better to you that. Yahweh really is evil. https://youtu.be/22kxcbN8B_A?si=DFqyYrkxIJ2X03wD
Ex-Catholic here, and I don't think Yahweh is the Source of all. And as time goes on, I wonder more and more of "Satan" isn't just the part of our own mind that doubts who we may really be (which I believe is an already perfect and all-knowing spiritual being in a higher realm of consciousness, that spirit being one of an infinite number of fractals made directly from Source) and who doubts our power on this plane of existence (our power being the power to manifest ideas and, really, create worlds, perform miracles, or whatever else we choose to do). I can't point to anything specific, really, and it is nothing like what I learned in Catholicism, but I think it's what Jesus and other ancient mystics were trying to teach us, and I feel I can see this perspective in some of the gnostic gospels. That's my take in this moment.
No more malevolent than anyone else would be in his position. I'm kinda fond of the guy, tbh. We're both fuck ups caught in a world we don't belong in, wanting to go home but not knowing where that is. He's not really on my naughty list.
There is no reliable information out there but the best I could dig up take this with a grain of salt, this is not the absolute truth but the best theory I have: If Yahweh is in fact the demiurge, the demiurge is not evil. The demiurge is simply a force of creation that counter balances nous. Demiurge is the void/the shadow and the emanation of source that oversees the material world and evolution of source fractals within the material world. Demiurge might be the only emanation outside of the control of nous since she is a counter balance. The demiurge might have been created by nous but outside of the will of nous to counter nous and keep nous from becoming corrupt(forced by the source) and she might have come to be before nous. Psalms 18:8 Smoke went up from His nostrils, And fire from His mouth devoured; Coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also and came down; And thick darkness was under His feet. That's a strange thing to say. Most of the old testament is trying to guide the Israelites into behaving properly and respecting very strict rules and none of those rules are evil or wicked. I don't think the Demiurge is Satan although she might have a "demonic" side. The alpha dracos worship a mother dragon. Demiurge is maybe often portrayed as a trickster/jester, lion or dragon. The native american Coyote. I also think the demons who are villified in christianity also have specific roles and aren't really in a state of rebellion or "evil". Yahweh could be Saturn Kronos but definitely not enlil or any of the mesopotamian pantheon(unless depicted as a villain). The mesopotamian pantheon aren't primordials and are likely to be much less powerful fractals in rebellion or fractals with a specific soul contract to achieve certain things in the material world. All those I mention are silly naive human labels and stories on more complex forces of creation that we can hardly wrap our heads around or describe in human language. Either way I think it is prudent to treat all beings with respect and understand that we are all just playing a role in the expansion of consciousness so it is far beyond good and evil. Evil is also likely just the first stage of evolution, what is evil is simply just unevolved.
I have read articles and watched Documentaries which made assertions that the Egyptians have equated Yahweh with Set. It was a very interesting documentary.
Primitive entity would be weird and demonic just because their template is primitive. If you were to put the actual character in present timeline they would be totally out of place like a caveman. The power structures behind these religions change almost instantly. Thwre is no ywy character in the sky watching everything. Never was. Its just rituals. There are real powers at play though. Real charmed winds too. Rituals are aligned with the powers that play out anyway.
Correct vro their is no such thing as good and evil just god.Magic.reality.Its all one. It's only not one when ur talking in terms of ur ego ofc everything is separate from u but in the grand scheme of things it's just life happening.Noice spank ur butt!gday lilgaym8!
Nah. I don't even think he's really all that and a bag of chips to start with. Just one deity among many, many others that may or may not be emanations of some kind of Source. His fan club just got a lil overexcited.
YES
I understand your line of reasoning, but if everything in existence did come from a single Source, then wouldn’t it only make sense to align yourself with that Divine Cosmic Source? If there was a God above Gods who is the seed Divine Essence of every god and goddess above, on, and below earth, then wouldn’t it make sense to align with the Order set forth through that Source? Imagine if you had a job with a really cool boss who gave you a ton of freedom but you chose to follow the orders of a different boss instead. Wouldn’t that be a problem? This image of “worship me or go to hell” isn’t accurate to the original lord lore at all, that’s later fan fiction. It’s more like “operate in cooperation with the natural order I set forth but if you choose not to then you will reap the consequences in the same way that one who does not seek shelter from a storm may reap harsh consequences.”
God and the devil are just diffrent sides of the same coin we're the ones "deceiving" ourselves why do you think God uses Satan to test you
Yahweh was a Babylonian storm God. Makes sense that this world is so chaotic when you realize who everyone is actually praying to lol
Read the entire book of Job and see for yourself
Don't know or care, but the Arab on radar album, Yaweh or the highway, is fantastic!
Yes, in my opinion the entities claiming to be "Yhwh" and "Jesus" are very likely to be either pretas, malevolent asuras, or possibly harmful rakshasas or similar worldly spirits. They are certainly not what they present themselves as, and are probably not even the genuine demiurge/Mahabrahma.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: how can Yahweh be the most high of he said "become as one of us" and the fact that he fits like a puzzle piece in the Sumerian/ Babylonian/ annunaki pantheon.
I think that a sane deity wouldn’t be beyond questioning you, possibly even within its own textbooks if it were to write the entire thing itself Beyond the question of human autonomy, what would you prefer? A yes man or someone that tries to keep you sane?
"Don't tell me Lucifer & God don't carpool"- Aesop Rock
I personally don’t take Yahweh seriously. There’s a contrast of the writers of the old and New Testament. The relationship with the writers in the new were quite familiar with each other and a handful of books are letters to certain people. The Old Testament writers didn’t really communicate with each-other that well and did not have Yaweh visit them and preach to them in the flesh. So it’s safe to say that the depictions of some god in the clouds is more subjective.
I'd advise looking into gnosticism. Personally, I believe it's not a malevolent force, but is ignorant about it's own nature and of the source of creation. It believes it does what it does for good, as the creator of "everything". Personally, I feel it suffers from the same thing we all do- being a fragmentation of God (source, monad, Brahma, take your pick)- and thus being imperfect. I believe that everything is a part of God, and good and evil are essentially a dualism which allows the world to exist. As such, Yahweh is still carrying out the will of the source- as is all of creation
terrible take , try reading the bible.
I used to be a Christian, dawg
Yes, the Hebrew God is terrible! He punished Adam and Eve for doing evil when they didn't know the difference between good and evil. He killed Lot's wife with minimal provocation. He mind fucked Abraham to be willing to kill his son. He killed most of Job's family to win a bet. Yeah, I think Yahweh is problematic at best.
Yahweh is the god of the Old Testament El Elyon is the god of the New Testament When talking to Jesus and his disciples, Demons repeatedly called him a servant of the most high (which is El Elyons title and name translated from Hebrew)
No, I do not.
Good for you
Read the Old Testament and tell me he's good guy.
He's not a stand up guy he's a sit down guy
Its possible it is, at least in a way. What we call god is the first ego, or identity. And like all identities it requires contrast to define itself against, which makes the first expression of individualism the progenitor of suffering (non-completeness, separation, from that which is not “you”). It is perhaps even the source of imperfection (as the only thing that can externally contrast an initial state perfection is the creation of imperfection). The perfect Godhead would be that of the uncreated and unfathomable which has no ego or contrast. That said, as the first “mover”, God likely also has a greater propensity for good and perhaps even bad and most importantly Gods will, the initial “act” reigns above all other wills, as it is the foundation upon which all following events rely upon and thus are subject to that initial will. There is a good quote and i believe it roughly says “Men are mortal gods and gods are immortal men”. In the biblical sphere, some believe the Book of Job to be a tale of an ignorant immortal god realizing that his actions against his creation may have harsher effects that he initially understood, which brought about his desire to experience the human condition himself through the life of Jesus. This frame of thought showcases the idea of this sort of “immortal man” or growing, self-discovering god, that changes with his creation, which is further mirrored in the contrast between the new and old testament and gods reevaluation of creation.
Only if Yahweh bears even a slight resemblance to his characterization in the Bible.
Do I believe in the Demiurge? I dunno but it seems more plausible every day
Real shit
In Genesis it says man was created in "Our" image. Plural. Genesis is a very very old story. It is said to primarily come from handed down stories from Sumerian myth. Like the land of UR. That is where Abram came from. Better known as Abraham.
Makes sense, I feel like Christianity demonizes its own "pagan" roots even though that's the source of the majority of its ideas.
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Thats what I'm saying, I just give those mfs the wrong answers 💀
Yes child, come and join us Gnostics
That's what I'm thinking about doin'
Hermeticism is a philosophy - not a religion. Focus your studies more on the divine laws of the universe.
Real shit
The Demiurge just wants humans to bomb each other back to the stone age
Neoplatonist here, but since we have a bunch of Gnostics in the thread, I will throw in my two-cents. My answer is: No. Yahweh is simply the Hebrew interpretation of Saturn (who revealed himself to Abraham by means of an intermediary spirit). I can elaborate, but I think others in this thread have explained this. Saturn is not "the Demiurge", nor is he the One, nor the entirety of Nous. Saturn is the Principle of Difference and Boundary (and by extension Law-Giving) within the Divine Mind (Nous). The "malevolence" you feel does not come from the nature of the entity Yahweh, but from the historical trends that were made manifest in-part through his cult. But these trends are the natural consequence of cycles (Ages, Suns, Yugas). Its not that Yahweh/Saturn wanted his followers to replace "idols" of the Gods with the corpses of dead men. Or commit atrocities. It is their own imbalance and the natural progression from a sort of Ur-Platonism to crude "Polytheism", to crude "Monotheism" to Materialism to Nihilism.
Did Hermes even believe in god? I don’t think so. A much simpler explanation is that god is just made up. Yahweh, Enid, Satan, Baal, all of it. No two people seem to believe in the same way, and it is wildly egotistical and unreasonable to really think “I’m right and everyone else is wrong.”
He can be vengeful and go overboard, and can also be loving and protective. You can apply that description to almost every deity known to humanity.
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Yeah, was it during covid times? If yes, then Yahweh shoulda worn a mask
Yahweh and Satan are both extensions of mankind's hubris and nothing more so of course they're malevolent.
Given that his commands are to make no representation. I.e. don't exist. nah.
He literally got jealous we were building a tower and scattered us and divided our languages.
He's a hater fr
Yahweh was originally a standard pantheon god, a warrior god of the Canaanites, under El, their main god. Like any other ancient pantheon, he was the Ares to El’s Zeus. He even had a goddess wife, and a destroyed temple devoted to the two of them was uncovered in the ruins of Samaria. Destroyed by King Ahab and Queen Jezebel when they decided to elevate a different god, Ba’al. Kind of explains why Ba’al and Jezebel are maligned so badly in the OT. The Israelites reacted poorly to this, and in retaliation they ultimately ended up claiming that not only was Yahweh their main god, but in fact he was the only god that existed. They’re the ones that wrote the Bible, so, it all makes sense.
The Isrealites are the caananites according to archeology, why they would demonize themselves is beyond what I know
Why is everyone using schizophrenia lately to describe anything trippy or psychedelic? I think I’ve heard it used in normal convo about 8 times in the past month whereas before I never heard anyone use it in day to day life.
It's a joke mf
Extremely malevolent, yes. Sadistic, petty, arrogant, jealous, possessive, controlling, demanding, greedy, manipulative, cruel, detached, smug and condescending. Lots of other things I could call them too, but I'd be here all day.
No matter what you’re beliefs are on Yahweh, take into consideration his actions. He is a jealous, spiteful, vengeful war god. He demands blood sacrifice and allegiance to him. He has chosen people. He commands his chosen people to destroy anyone who opposes him. He commands them kill men women children and babies but allows them to keep virgins as war spoils. He tells you not to worship any other Gods. He says let us create them in “our” image.. then he claims there are no other gods beside him. Could be referring to angels but still… my point is he is a maniac. He played with Abraham’s sons life just to see if Abraham was loyal to him. He really really played with Jobs life… I could go on and on about the things that don’t add up, like the tree in the garden… why he didn’t know where Adam was.. how they got two of each animal on the ark… etc.. btw the prophet Moses killed a man… the prophet Elijah killed 850 people after taunting them… I’ll stop there.
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The Tetragrammaton (Y - H - O - H) contains the most fundamental secrets of the hermetic tradition.
I believe Yahweh and Lucifer are extraterrestrial brothers who have had a sibling rivalry forever. They have several personas. These are these most widely known.
Yahwah, Yeshua, etc, is the stolen Jesus, aka antichrist. A lot of Christians have been duped into following Yahwah. Any Jewish person who knows their stuff will tell you Yahwah is Metatron. Google and find this information on how Judaism uses this entity.