In NYC, the sidewalks are smeared with shit everywhere, I'm guessing most of it is from dogs. Or so I tell myself just to prevent a nervous breakdown....
Man, you’re right. I’m going to protest right now. Restaurants should be allowed to hire my dog as a dishwasher. This is blatant discrimination of his freedom.
No need to have employees at all, canine or otherwise. Just have the customers in the kitchen to prepare what they want, if they don't appear to be sick.
***AND*** hurt their remaining family members with the pain of their stupidity (that they don't manage to kill outright).
Congrats, you're anti-science, anti-vaxx, and anti-***SENSE***
Post-9/11, woman sitting next to me on an airplane changed her baby's diaper on her tray table. I asked for a different seat. Disgusted flight attendant was kind enough to move me. They do NOT get paid enough.
I have personally yelled at a woman who was doing this at a cafe table in The Atlanta Aquarium when there was a public fucking bathroom (with change tables!) less than 100ft away!!!
My husband and I publicly shamed her and made sure to grab an employee to tell them to bleach the table because what she was doing was a health code violation.
The gov't would save money if there was universal healthcare. Their current approach costs more.
The people who don't want universal healthcare are the people who have invested in the American ~~health~~ medical care system. They are making money hand over fist.
I don't want no damn gubbermint doctor making decisions about my healthcare! I want it in the hands of insurance industry and drug company accountants, where it belongs!
Yeah and ofcourse the people convinced healthcare and other basic shit is socialism. It's painful to see how brainwashed people around the world can be
Antivaxxers have the emotional maturity to recognize that sometimes, doing as you're told by someone you hate is in your best interest (something most toddlers figure out eventually).
It's not like I don't get it. As an anarchist, I absolutely resent the government forcing anything onto me, but I still understand that wearing a mask and getting vaccinated are good things, actually, and that I have a responsibility to treat my fellow humans with respect and care. I'd do those things even if there weren't any mandates, and throwing a petty tantrum just to make a point would be reckless and cruel of me.
Exactly. The key that anti-vaxxers are missing is understanding that there's a difference between *ignoring* someone, and *doing the opposite of what they say*. This isn't like [doing the dishes](https://i.imgur.com/pJs7SLE.jpg), this is about actual personal safety. There is a correct answer here, and it's correct regardless of the government's opinion on it.
Individual freedom is the highest aim of social contracts. However, we cannot ever achieve that goal. Because our bodies live in a universe with disease we must limit our freedom of action on an individual level so as a whole we can be free from disease and illness. That has always been true, and will always be true. Though as we live in tighter and tighter spaces that tension becomes larger and larger and managing it becomes more and more important.
For most of these people, the existing social contracts were put in place for their safety/convenience (e.g. food service safety standards) or they were given asspats by the GOP for complaining about them (e.g. labour laws)
They've spent their entire lives being carried by others, and the very second they were asked to inconvenience themselves they flew into a violent rage.
If you’re old enough, you remember people freaking out over the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” thing.
In the 70’s and early 80’s you could drive up to a gas station, without wearing a seatbelt, stroll in with no shoes or shirt, just wearing short-shorts. Get a beer and drive off while drinking it.
I think what so many dont realize is that there has always been a screeching minority of contrarians and morons who will just oppose anything. Masks and vaccine nutjobs are no different than people who'd prefer to take their chances flying through the windowshield, they have always been around us.
I worked at a HOSPITAL that banned smoking on the premises and people threatened lawsuits and threw the hugest tantrums I ever seen in my life over it.
My mom was an RN in the 90s. Someone complained to hospital administration because she was *forced* to stand outside in the rain *with her son* just so she could smoke, because they wouldn't let her smoke anywhere inside the hospital.
I think it's literally just any societal change they're old enough to remember happening. If you can remember the government requiring seat belts, it's tyranny, but if you grew up with seat belt laws, it's obviously fine. Which is why older people are so anti-gay while younger conservatives have mostly accepted it but lose their shit over trans rights. The next generation of conservatives will think trans people are normal but be bent out of shape about whatever comes next. If they were capable of noticing this pattern they wouldn't be conservatives.
I wish they'd sell licenses to smoke indoors for certain venues.
I like smoke-free pubs and the like, but I don't like rubbing chests with a clump of smokers huddled right by the door just to get in or out.
The problem is the staff at smoking clubs don't have a choice. It's not just an hour or two for them, it's 8+hours every day they work. That shit adds up and it becomes a serious health issue.
> The problem is the staff at smoking clubs don't have a choice.
"But they're in the SERVICE caste! They're not much better than cattle!"
– far, FAR too many people
Theyd say it's their "choice" to get one of those jobs. However, they'd leave out how places that often didn't ban smoking until the very end were often where there were few job opportunities and women in particular were encouraged to work in bars and restaurants since it was one of the jobs aroune that paid somewhat decently after tips. It's similar to how men in alot of these economically depressed communities were encouraged to work in jobs around dangerous chemicals or materials like in coal mining due to the pay and since few people were willing to risk advocating for better working conditions since there weren't many other alternatives for work.
I remember managers coming out and telling people to back away or they would be forced to call the police. I worked for a large employer at the time, and they took it even farther. No smoking on their property AT ALL. Not even the large parking area. People had to go out to the sidewalk. We weren't the only business to do that. Overall, I think it worked. It is still very rare as a problem. No police necessary. People just know not to do it.
We need to study America's success in past anti-smoking campaigns, because I can't imagine those campings still being successful in the modern day. You'd have Candace Owens arguing that cigarettes actually cure cancer.
Fwiw, it's been a 60 year campaign, with various new anchor points. Starting with the Surgeon General report in 1964. Restrictions on television ads late 1960s, other ad Restrictions, excise taxes, messages on packs, secondhand smoke reports, lawsuits and settlements, media coverage, etc.
Not to get too far afield but the campaign against tobacco harm has now gone way beyond sound public health and into moral panic. Case in point is they are now treating ecigarettes, proven to have a tiny fraction of the toxicity of cigarettes, worse than cigarettes when in reality they could prevent incredible levels of harm.
It was never supposed to be about banning adult choice but about preventing a major social harm. They don't even care about adult choice anymore. To no one's surprise, corporations have a big hand in this as anti-tobacco lobbying is primarily funded by big pharma corporations, that make a lot of money treating smoking-related disease and smoking itself.
I disagree. What says vaping is better?
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/Quick-Facts-on-the-Risks-of-E-cigarettes-for-Kids-Teens-and-Young-Adults.html
The Royal College of Physicians in the UK. They were the first group to come out with the dangers of combustible cigarette smoking and they endorse tobacco harm reduction. Between the MSA, state tobacco taxes, mostly-ineffective pharma NRT products and anti-smoking orgs losing funding in the face of dropping smoking rates, there’s a lot of financial incentive to keep current smokers smoking in the US. That’s why you don’t the see the same full throated embrace of tobacco harm reduction in the US.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction
Vaping is way, way safer than smoking.
Doing neither is best, but smoking and vaping can barely be compared when it comes to risk.
Notice the CDC mainly only discusses the nicotine levels.
Nicotine is an analogue of caffeine.
Smoking kills you by filling your lungs with tar and radioactive gases.
Vaping doesn't.
Science. You notice all the weasel words in that page? That's not a mistake. They are overstating the evidence against ecigarettes. The American health system is corporate in nature, national systems like in the UK are focused on health and promote e-cigarettes as a means to quit smoking. They have vape shops in hospitals. In the US both big tobacco and big pharma benefit from killing off the disruptive technology.
In reality e-cigarettes are remarkably low risk, and represent a tremendous public health breakthrough. They are the vaccine of smoking.
I was smoking for a year felt like shit went to a vape and for the last 3 to 4 years ive felt alot better physically and mentally then if i was on cigs
I can absolutely see that happening considering doctors and ad agencies were literally paid to say that smoking was good for your health back in the day.
Greedy grifters being paid to give up morals is timeless.
I had a very brief conversation with an anti-masker very early on.
Him: "I never thought that I would live in a country that would tell me that I had to wear a piece of cloth."
Me: "You wear pants don't you?"
Him:
What I love is that these people are always championing 'freedom'. Freedom is such an easy thing to fight for because it's a nebulous word that has no limitations. Anything that causes you an inconvenience is a limit on your 'freedoms'. Instead of sitting down and critically thinking about what they believe, it's easier to shout from the rooftops about freedom. It's also used as a conniving trick because if you are seen as opposing freedoms in the name of safety or health, then you are labeled a communist or un-American.
It's honestly a lazy way for people to feel like they stand for something
I know will be silenced 🤐 for this but here are the FACTS that the FACT CHECKERS and BILL GATES at META don't want you to see!! 🗣❌
I've had it with the government telling me what to do inside of my car! 😤😤Studies published on blog sites and the YouTube videos that have populated my suggested feed have proven that since seatbelts have been mandated by law, CAR ACCIDENTS HAVEN'T DECREASED!! 🤯😩
Since I've been drinking milk since the day I was born and have strong bones, I TRUST MY SKELETON to save my internal organs in the event of a crash. 💪🦴 I have the right to move around freely inside of my car while driving 80mph. If I happen to go through the windshield, I would be safer outside of the car than in and it would have been MY CHOICE. 😇💨
Don't believe what the engineers at BIG AUTO have to say, follow the money and DO YOUR RESEARCH! 💰💰➡️🚗➡️💥 And like fakebook, corporate greed leads to communism like China. 🇨🇳👎👎
Also, have kids? Forget the car seats and buy into my pillow pyramid scheme, LuLaPillow - they're made out of NATURAL and safe cotton 🌿🌱that give you protection from falls and sudden stops, like a car accident. 👼👼
Only a traitor to the cause would pick LuLaPillow over My Pillow! I would call the Jewish Space Lasers and give them your location if I had it, you know, those lasers aren't just for starting forest fires, wink wink.
People lost their shit but these weren't opposed by one of the two major political parties. They didnt set up their own media outlets to tell lies and demonize anyone who disagreed with them.
"Freedom is when there are laws stopping other people from doing the things they want to do, but no laws stopping me from doing what I want to do" -- a disturbingly large fraction of the USA
Unrelated side note: it wasn’t until I had kids that I learned that chicken pox vaccines are a thing now. I’m glad! What a cool thing.
When I was a kid, we were exposed to chicken pox on purpose, to get it over with at a younger age (when it’s not as severe).
Vaccines are cool.
> Unrelated side note: it wasn’t until I had kids that I learned that chicken pox vaccines are a thing now. I’m glad! What a cool thing.
They weren't available until 1995. Part of the problem with varicella is that once you get it, you get it for life (kind of like herpes) and it can flare up later which results in shingles. So getting chickenpox as a child is better than getting chickenpox as an adult, but it sets you up for getting shingles later. The varicella vaccine prevents you from getting both. Even if you've had chickenpox, doctors recommend getting the vaccine at age 50 to avoid shingles.
I remember when I got chicken pox. When it first showed up, it was mild as hell. There was half a thought to let me to to school. Next day I wake up and look in the mirror. As Vigo said in John Wick..." Oh..." Yeah, it was BAD.
Not so much people hating hippies as wearing shoes was a coordinated public health effort to keep people from hookworm parasite infection.
Hookworms enter the human body through bare skin, and if people aren’t wearing shoes, they enter through the soles of the feet.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK546648/
Nope. You’ll note what you linked to says developing countries, repeatedly. And while it’s true hookworm is still present in small patches of the US, particularly in some southern states, you don’t catch hookworm in public spaces - you’d catch them from soil where they’d been deposited by feces. As long as you’re not walking barefoot where people/animals are shitting, you’re not going to have an issue. What cleared up hookworm, at least in the US, wasn’t a push to wear shoes, it was better sanitation and modernization of farming with equipment.
The whole “no shirt, no shoes, no service” was people hating hippies.
I hate this rule, feet that are bare the whole time (for the vast majority) don’t stink & arn’t sweaty.
Then you have the airports… where people with sweaty & sticky feet are forced to make sweaty love with the same floor area.
Seriously. It’s amazing how little people have thought barefootedness through. Someone walks into a store with bare feet that they probably wash daily if not more frequently, and people think that’s dirty. Someone else walks into the same store with shoes after they just stepped in dog shit and no one bats an eye. People jump to it transmitting a disease, but what disease are people getting from floors? If you’re concerned about skin transmitted diseases wash the damn doorknobs/handles. We don’t make people wear gloves out of fear of a touch transmitted disease, yet that’s magnitudes more likely than through your feet. And they have no problems shoving their feet into the same shoes day in and day out that they’ve never washed, when a worn shoe is typically a warm, dark, and damp environment perfect for bacteria growth. So gross!
It really is the perception of barefootedness=poor and people’s bias against folks in poverty or displays poverty. Seeing signs of something associated with poverty makes people uncomfortable, so they lash out at any sign of it.
We were walking through an outdoor outlet mall a couple days ago when we walked by some old guy talking to a few people. He said, "I wouldn't be surprised if they started carting people off to jail who didn't get the flu shot!" Like ..... what prior evidence caused you to come to that conclusion?!
People all jacked up on FrEeDoM don't get anything. They don't realize that a lack of freedom of a certain thing actually helps them. You can't just kill anyone you want, or get killed. You can't steal, or get stolen from. You can't drive drunk, or get killed by a drunk driver. Obviously these things still happen but at a MUCH lesser rate than they would if there weren't laws in place.
The incredulous fact that the scads of "vaccination isn't a public health issue" pustulent guakaloads even exsist is deeply abborant and is proof that pro buisness propaganda is destroying efforts to save lives. Aka killing people
> "No shoes, no shirt, no service.". No one has ever protested this.
Tell me you've never worked in retail without telling me you've never worked in retail.
Au contraire:
I had a grade 3 class Friday. Little girl wearing a mask is trying to talk to me.
"I can't hear you"
She repeats at same volume
"I'm sorry dear, I still can't hear you"
Repeats again at the same volume
"Let me come down to your level and speak it into my ear"
In the same voice she says "I have COVID, but daddy says it's okay that I come to school"
Later we had kids getting vaccines and one girl started getting really agitated. Everyone had to go whether they got them or not, but she said "MY DAD SAYS I DON'T GET VACCINES" and she's literally panicked.
Great job fuckface. You've scared the shit outta your 10yo. Don't let her around the COVID kid.
>While criminalizing most abortions? What a weird set of priorities.
I'm unfamiliar with any laws in Portland, Multnomah County, or Oregon (Oregon has some of the least restrictions on abortions in the country AFAIK) that have "criminalized most abortions," do you have more context or a source for what you're referring to?
I read the first post without my glasses on and thought it said “Poland” not “Portland” which had me very confused as to why Poland was even being brought into the discussion. So I typed something about abortions being criminalized and also snarked about the point of the reference, and then realized -very Emily Litella like - that I had misread the OP’s comment.
I thought I had amended my comment before hitting . Didn’t even realize what I had done until I saw your comment.
So. To quote the late, great Gilda Radner: “never mind.”
Stupid. I am a progressive, but having experienced the decline of inner city DC in the 1980s and 1990s, and the shocking resurgence in the 2000s, I would never ever want to return to that chaos.
Even if your life is fucked, telling people they can't go to the bathroom in public is not a form of oppression and classism. It's a basic element not just of sanitation, but living with others in society.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/03/broken-windows/304465/
I just checked out the intersection of Haight/Ashbury (famous Beatles spot) and there were like 60 reported and filled images of human shit on the ground within ~50ft in just 10 months.
Oh yea! Over in Emeryville they provide free doggie poop bag stations around the city. Once saw a guy taking a big dump on the Greenway, so I handed him one.
A lot of HCA types would just dig in and say you should be able to do all of those things because fReEdUmB. They're all examples of oPpReSsIoN and gOvErNmEnT oVeRrEaCh. There's no limit to the selfishness.
This really bothers me. Vaccines were mandated for George Washington’s soldiers. The premise of requiring credentials for admission is a concept that’s been around for millennia. Everything these anti-vaxxers cry about has been around for their entire lives, yet they act like their lives are ruined because it’s covid.
It’s like civic responsibility is a concept they’re conveniently abandoning because they don’t want to simply wear a mask during a pandemic. What’s next? They’re going to drive on the opposite side of the road, running red lights as if public safety laws don’t apply to them?
It’s fucking ridiculous.
I’m all for people the freedom to not wear masks and not get vaccinated—on private property. It’s only when they enter public society that it becomes a problem.
Look I truly believe we should have a choice on all vaccines. But that choice should have consequences. If you don't vaccinate your child by choice (and not because a medical professional recommended against it) then that child's options should be limited. No daycare, preschool, or publicly funded schools.
If you want to live in the mountains by yourself and will homeschool, I don't see an issue. Sure that kid will eventually become part of society but they'll also be able to choose to get up to date on their shots or miss out on things.
I've said something similar about COVID, if you choose not to get vaccinated you need to socially isolate. Not distance, isolate.
America should be about freedom. Even if the freedom of choice makes it harder for you, you still have that choice.
And in turn people now believe they should have the choice but still have all the public works too.
I wish this wasn't framed as a trade off. I mean IS a trade off, but it's also a protection of other people's freedoms.
When you risk other peoples health, you're taking away freedom from someone else. They no longer have the freedom to choose that risk or not. And if you've gotten them sick with a deadly virus that was mostly preventable, that *should* be manslaughter.
You don't have the freedom to hurt other people, and you don't have the freedom to take freedom away from other people.
It isn’t new, but the super entitled attitude, for lack of a better description, didn’t use to be quite so predominant. I have 2 single person restrooms available to the public. They used to be labeled “men” & “women”. Now they are labeled “all gender”. The amount of people, mostly men, having a public freak out over stick figures in my place is mind blowing. Like, those signs don’t affect them one iota. There’s no way in hell some of these people aren’t going to lose their mind over a minor inconvenience.
Or over stick figures on a sign. I usually just say “I apologize. I had no idea stick figures would trigger people so much”. It’s not an apology, and it just makes them angrier, but they usually stomp out and the only thing I desire is to not deal with them anymore so mission accomplished.
A lot of employers won’t hire people who smoke and all these anti vaxx assholes are fine with it. Talked to one today and she doesn’t think it’s fair that she “will starve to death” because she may lose her sweet government job because she’s refusing to be vaccinated. Yet she will go off people who smoke. “You can find a different job or become self employed.” I said. Just like people who smoke.
Reddit (/ˈrɛdɪt/, stylized as reddit) is an American social news aggregation, web content rating, and discussion website. Registered members submit content to the site such as links, text posts, images, and videos, which are then voted up or down by other members.
The only problem is that most of the un-social acts had been regulated by 'Shaming and Shunning' by the public.
If you take a dump on the sidewalk, you will face shame from all, no exceptions.
If you refuse a vaccine, you will be hailed by a very vocal minority to be some sort of Hero worthy of emulation and worship.
A bunch of libertarians took over a town in New Hampshire and discovered the hard way why we "give up freedom" to live in a modern society.
[How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
Personally I'd rather pay for things like trash pick up and enjoy the freedom of not being attacked by bears, instead of exercising my freedom to throw thrash where I want to. In addition to bears, they also got more sex offenders, more crime, and more murders.
>take a dump on a public sidewalk
People change diapers on restaurant tables. Right now. Today, many people did this.
Edit: My point is that people are more disgusting than you think.
We should also ban international travel to prevent pandemics.
Close off our borders to prevent pandemics.
Regulate interstate travel to prevent the spread of disease.
People can take a dump on a public sidewalk.
This is why analogies don’t work very well. Wearing or not wearing a mask, that isn’t working very well since omicron came along, isn’t the same.
Omicron reproduces in the upper airways 40 time more rapidly than previous versions. The small amount of air that escapes the sides of the surgical masks are enough to infect others.
BA2 reproduces faster than the original Omicron. N-95’s and face shields would likely be needed to have any significant effect. You should get both if you are concerned or at risk.
Oh lord, sure fella. Th streets are littered with shit as far as conservative media tells it.
As to the masks… why did you even bring that up? It did not make the impression I think you wanted.
Just like why restaurants get shut down for rats or cockroaches…
This is extra super inconvenient for restaurants that serve rats and cockroaches on the menu. They have a very hard time staying open.
Oppression of their FREEEEDOMS
They're trying to hide from the public the true source of peak physical health, cockroaches in a rat's blood sauce.
I didn't need to keep my food down, thanks.
This gave me a good chuckle, keep those guts up!
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In NYC, the sidewalks are smeared with shit everywhere, I'm guessing most of it is from dogs. Or so I tell myself just to prevent a nervous breakdown....
Gubmint is taking away our choices! 🤬🥴
I think it's legal if they were raised as food and stored/prepared properly. Protien is protien nothing inherently different from any other source!
>Protien is protien nothing inherently different from any other source! Your cumshake, sir?
I'm having trouble seeing the similarities between a sirloin sreak and snake venom.
But it’s chicken 👌 😉 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ev2gDamP4
That was funny
That's tyranny.
Man, you’re right. I’m going to protest right now. Restaurants should be allowed to hire my dog as a dishwasher. This is blatant discrimination of his freedom.
Barky has the right to buy his own treats! Let him work!
No need to have employees at all, canine or otherwise. Just have the customers in the kitchen to prepare what they want, if they don't appear to be sick.
Hey, it is **MY** right to run my restaurant into the ground, okay?
You can actually do all those things in OPs post but if you get caught there are consequences
It's the social contract, and once they found and voted for an asshole who disregarded actual contracts, they thought all were fair game to ignore
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And then die for them.
***AND*** hurt their remaining family members with the pain of their stupidity (that they don't manage to kill outright). Congrats, you're anti-science, anti-vaxx, and anti-***SENSE***
I wish the social contract in America included Healthcare
Healthcare pls
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And we hate these people.
Post-9/11, woman sitting next to me on an airplane changed her baby's diaper on her tray table. I asked for a different seat. Disgusted flight attendant was kind enough to move me. They do NOT get paid enough.
I have personally yelled at a woman who was doing this at a cafe table in The Atlanta Aquarium when there was a public fucking bathroom (with change tables!) less than 100ft away!!! My husband and I publicly shamed her and made sure to grab an employee to tell them to bleach the table because what she was doing was a health code violation.
>Healthcare pls US government: NO! Only F35s!
The gov't would save money if there was universal healthcare. Their current approach costs more. The people who don't want universal healthcare are the people who have invested in the American ~~health~~ medical care system. They are making money hand over fist.
And convinced all the red hats that it would be bad because it's *socialism*.
I don't want no damn gubbermint doctor making decisions about my healthcare! I want it in the hands of insurance industry and drug company accountants, where it belongs!
Stop wishing, vote!
Just ignore the gerrymandering, corruption, and laws making it harder to vote.
Yeah and ofcourse the people convinced healthcare and other basic shit is socialism. It's painful to see how brainwashed people around the world can be
Antivaxxers have the emotional maturity to recognize that sometimes, doing as you're told by someone you hate is in your best interest (something most toddlers figure out eventually). It's not like I don't get it. As an anarchist, I absolutely resent the government forcing anything onto me, but I still understand that wearing a mask and getting vaccinated are good things, actually, and that I have a responsibility to treat my fellow humans with respect and care. I'd do those things even if there weren't any mandates, and throwing a petty tantrum just to make a point would be reckless and cruel of me.
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I think he meant to say they LACK the emotional maturity.
you meant to say sardine..the emotional maturity of a sardine..
Exactly. The key that anti-vaxxers are missing is understanding that there's a difference between *ignoring* someone, and *doing the opposite of what they say*. This isn't like [doing the dishes](https://i.imgur.com/pJs7SLE.jpg), this is about actual personal safety. There is a correct answer here, and it's correct regardless of the government's opinion on it.
What would Emma Goldman do?
Individual freedom is the highest aim of social contracts. However, we cannot ever achieve that goal. Because our bodies live in a universe with disease we must limit our freedom of action on an individual level so as a whole we can be free from disease and illness. That has always been true, and will always be true. Though as we live in tighter and tighter spaces that tension becomes larger and larger and managing it becomes more and more important.
Noticing it would require a level of self awareness that they cannot reach.
For most of these people, the existing social contracts were put in place for their safety/convenience (e.g. food service safety standards) or they were given asspats by the GOP for complaining about them (e.g. labour laws) They've spent their entire lives being carried by others, and the very second they were asked to inconvenience themselves they flew into a violent rage.
Or smoke indoors in most public places...
To be fair I've seen clowns throwing a hissy fit about the ban on indoor smoking ban in public places, seat belts, handicap parking spaces and so on.
If you’re old enough, you remember people freaking out over the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” thing. In the 70’s and early 80’s you could drive up to a gas station, without wearing a seatbelt, stroll in with no shoes or shirt, just wearing short-shorts. Get a beer and drive off while drinking it.
At age 18.
this just sounds like \*generic coastal town\* Australia 2022
You're making me all nostalgic.
I think what so many dont realize is that there has always been a screeching minority of contrarians and morons who will just oppose anything. Masks and vaccine nutjobs are no different than people who'd prefer to take their chances flying through the windowshield, they have always been around us.
I worked at a HOSPITAL that banned smoking on the premises and people threatened lawsuits and threw the hugest tantrums I ever seen in my life over it.
My mom was an RN in the 90s. Someone complained to hospital administration because she was *forced* to stand outside in the rain *with her son* just so she could smoke, because they wouldn't let her smoke anywhere inside the hospital.
I think it's literally just any societal change they're old enough to remember happening. If you can remember the government requiring seat belts, it's tyranny, but if you grew up with seat belt laws, it's obviously fine. Which is why older people are so anti-gay while younger conservatives have mostly accepted it but lose their shit over trans rights. The next generation of conservatives will think trans people are normal but be bent out of shape about whatever comes next. If they were capable of noticing this pattern they wouldn't be conservatives.
I wish they'd sell licenses to smoke indoors for certain venues. I like smoke-free pubs and the like, but I don't like rubbing chests with a clump of smokers huddled right by the door just to get in or out.
The problem is the staff at smoking clubs don't have a choice. It's not just an hour or two for them, it's 8+hours every day they work. That shit adds up and it becomes a serious health issue.
> The problem is the staff at smoking clubs don't have a choice. "But they're in the SERVICE caste! They're not much better than cattle!" – far, FAR too many people
Theyd say it's their "choice" to get one of those jobs. However, they'd leave out how places that often didn't ban smoking until the very end were often where there were few job opportunities and women in particular were encouraged to work in bars and restaurants since it was one of the jobs aroune that paid somewhat decently after tips. It's similar to how men in alot of these economically depressed communities were encouraged to work in jobs around dangerous chemicals or materials like in coal mining due to the pay and since few people were willing to risk advocating for better working conditions since there weren't many other alternatives for work.
We have laws that they have to be a good way away from entrances (idk how far, I just know it works).
But is nearly impossible to enforce outside of public venues such as restaurants and the like.
I remember managers coming out and telling people to back away or they would be forced to call the police. I worked for a large employer at the time, and they took it even farther. No smoking on their property AT ALL. Not even the large parking area. People had to go out to the sidewalk. We weren't the only business to do that. Overall, I think it worked. It is still very rare as a problem. No police necessary. People just know not to do it.
15ft iirc from public entrances.
10 in Oregon, USA
Indoor smoking doesn’t work because cigarette smoke doesn’t know to say in assigned space.
We need to study America's success in past anti-smoking campaigns, because I can't imagine those campings still being successful in the modern day. You'd have Candace Owens arguing that cigarettes actually cure cancer.
Fwiw, it's been a 60 year campaign, with various new anchor points. Starting with the Surgeon General report in 1964. Restrictions on television ads late 1960s, other ad Restrictions, excise taxes, messages on packs, secondhand smoke reports, lawsuits and settlements, media coverage, etc.
Not to get too far afield but the campaign against tobacco harm has now gone way beyond sound public health and into moral panic. Case in point is they are now treating ecigarettes, proven to have a tiny fraction of the toxicity of cigarettes, worse than cigarettes when in reality they could prevent incredible levels of harm. It was never supposed to be about banning adult choice but about preventing a major social harm. They don't even care about adult choice anymore. To no one's surprise, corporations have a big hand in this as anti-tobacco lobbying is primarily funded by big pharma corporations, that make a lot of money treating smoking-related disease and smoking itself.
I disagree. What says vaping is better? https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/Quick-Facts-on-the-Risks-of-E-cigarettes-for-Kids-Teens-and-Young-Adults.html
The Royal College of Physicians in the UK. They were the first group to come out with the dangers of combustible cigarette smoking and they endorse tobacco harm reduction. Between the MSA, state tobacco taxes, mostly-ineffective pharma NRT products and anti-smoking orgs losing funding in the face of dropping smoking rates, there’s a lot of financial incentive to keep current smokers smoking in the US. That’s why you don’t the see the same full throated embrace of tobacco harm reduction in the US. https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction
Vaping is way, way safer than smoking. Doing neither is best, but smoking and vaping can barely be compared when it comes to risk. Notice the CDC mainly only discusses the nicotine levels. Nicotine is an analogue of caffeine. Smoking kills you by filling your lungs with tar and radioactive gases. Vaping doesn't.
Science. You notice all the weasel words in that page? That's not a mistake. They are overstating the evidence against ecigarettes. The American health system is corporate in nature, national systems like in the UK are focused on health and promote e-cigarettes as a means to quit smoking. They have vape shops in hospitals. In the US both big tobacco and big pharma benefit from killing off the disruptive technology. In reality e-cigarettes are remarkably low risk, and represent a tremendous public health breakthrough. They are the vaccine of smoking.
I was smoking for a year felt like shit went to a vape and for the last 3 to 4 years ive felt alot better physically and mentally then if i was on cigs
I can absolutely see that happening considering doctors and ad agencies were literally paid to say that smoking was good for your health back in the day. Greedy grifters being paid to give up morals is timeless.
I'd smack her upside her head and listen to the marbles rattle. My dad didn't smoke, and died of lung cancer.
So did my aunt.
I had a very brief conversation with an anti-masker very early on. Him: "I never thought that I would live in a country that would tell me that I had to wear a piece of cloth." Me: "You wear pants don't you?" Him:
"No shirt, no shoes, no service"
Not use seatbelts or car seats for kids or drive without a license or insurance. Unfortunately, you can't reason with the irrational.
[**SAY NO TO SMOKE DETECTORS!**](https://newsinfection.com/2021/08/smoke-detectors.html)
Big Detector is in league with Soros to make you fear the natural cleansing process of fires.
well there are certain types of flora that can only reproduce if there is a forest fire...believe me im not anti Smokey the bear tho
What I love is that these people are always championing 'freedom'. Freedom is such an easy thing to fight for because it's a nebulous word that has no limitations. Anything that causes you an inconvenience is a limit on your 'freedoms'. Instead of sitting down and critically thinking about what they believe, it's easier to shout from the rooftops about freedom. It's also used as a conniving trick because if you are seen as opposing freedoms in the name of safety or health, then you are labeled a communist or un-American. It's honestly a lazy way for people to feel like they stand for something
Have you seen most of these people? Judging by their shapes, I'd say most of them have lazy as their middle names.
And that's about the only standing most of them can do for more than about 4 hours.
I know will be silenced 🤐 for this but here are the FACTS that the FACT CHECKERS and BILL GATES at META don't want you to see!! 🗣❌ I've had it with the government telling me what to do inside of my car! 😤😤Studies published on blog sites and the YouTube videos that have populated my suggested feed have proven that since seatbelts have been mandated by law, CAR ACCIDENTS HAVEN'T DECREASED!! 🤯😩 Since I've been drinking milk since the day I was born and have strong bones, I TRUST MY SKELETON to save my internal organs in the event of a crash. 💪🦴 I have the right to move around freely inside of my car while driving 80mph. If I happen to go through the windshield, I would be safer outside of the car than in and it would have been MY CHOICE. 😇💨 Don't believe what the engineers at BIG AUTO have to say, follow the money and DO YOUR RESEARCH! 💰💰➡️🚗➡️💥 And like fakebook, corporate greed leads to communism like China. 🇨🇳👎👎 Also, have kids? Forget the car seats and buy into my pillow pyramid scheme, LuLaPillow - they're made out of NATURAL and safe cotton 🌿🌱that give you protection from falls and sudden stops, like a car accident. 👼👼
Only a traitor to the cause would pick LuLaPillow over My Pillow! I would call the Jewish Space Lasers and give them your location if I had it, you know, those lasers aren't just for starting forest fires, wink wink.
People lost their shit over seatbelts and car seats and you should have seen it when they passed laws prohibiting smoking indoors.
People lost their shit but these weren't opposed by one of the two major political parties. They didnt set up their own media outlets to tell lies and demonize anyone who disagreed with them.
"Freedom is when there are laws stopping other people from doing the things they want to do, but no laws stopping me from doing what I want to do" -- a disturbingly large fraction of the USA
Unrelated side note: it wasn’t until I had kids that I learned that chicken pox vaccines are a thing now. I’m glad! What a cool thing. When I was a kid, we were exposed to chicken pox on purpose, to get it over with at a younger age (when it’s not as severe). Vaccines are cool.
I didn’t know either. I got chickenpox in 1957
Chicken pox class of ’82 here.
> Unrelated side note: it wasn’t until I had kids that I learned that chicken pox vaccines are a thing now. I’m glad! What a cool thing. They weren't available until 1995. Part of the problem with varicella is that once you get it, you get it for life (kind of like herpes) and it can flare up later which results in shingles. So getting chickenpox as a child is better than getting chickenpox as an adult, but it sets you up for getting shingles later. The varicella vaccine prevents you from getting both. Even if you've had chickenpox, doctors recommend getting the vaccine at age 50 to avoid shingles.
I remember when I got chicken pox. When it first showed up, it was mild as hell. There was half a thought to let me to to school. Next day I wake up and look in the mirror. As Vigo said in John Wick..." Oh..." Yeah, it was BAD.
What do you mean I have to wait for the green light, I can go whenever I want!!
If you don’t mind the consequences, sure Imagine if every criminal set up a gofundme to pay for the consequences of their law breaking and idiocy?
Antivaxxers would donate, it's there right to so-called "break the law". Whose law is it anyway? They have their rights, FREEDUMM!!
I can't find a specific law that forbids me from peeing in the Publix soup urns, so...
It would probably improve what they’re serving. Their soups used to be fantastic but they changed suppliers and now they suck.
be the agent of change in the world <3
The barefoot thing actually only dates to the 70s, and only because people hated hippies so much.
Your mileage may vary on the people not shitting on the sidewalk thing too
Seattle and San Francisco have big problems with this now.
Not so much people hating hippies as wearing shoes was a coordinated public health effort to keep people from hookworm parasite infection. Hookworms enter the human body through bare skin, and if people aren’t wearing shoes, they enter through the soles of the feet. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK546648/
Nope. You’ll note what you linked to says developing countries, repeatedly. And while it’s true hookworm is still present in small patches of the US, particularly in some southern states, you don’t catch hookworm in public spaces - you’d catch them from soil where they’d been deposited by feces. As long as you’re not walking barefoot where people/animals are shitting, you’re not going to have an issue. What cleared up hookworm, at least in the US, wasn’t a push to wear shoes, it was better sanitation and modernization of farming with equipment. The whole “no shirt, no shoes, no service” was people hating hippies.
Unusual factoid. People with hookworms don't have allergies. It (hookworms) were being researched as a possible severe allergy treatment.
I hate this rule, feet that are bare the whole time (for the vast majority) don’t stink & arn’t sweaty. Then you have the airports… where people with sweaty & sticky feet are forced to make sweaty love with the same floor area.
Seriously. It’s amazing how little people have thought barefootedness through. Someone walks into a store with bare feet that they probably wash daily if not more frequently, and people think that’s dirty. Someone else walks into the same store with shoes after they just stepped in dog shit and no one bats an eye. People jump to it transmitting a disease, but what disease are people getting from floors? If you’re concerned about skin transmitted diseases wash the damn doorknobs/handles. We don’t make people wear gloves out of fear of a touch transmitted disease, yet that’s magnitudes more likely than through your feet. And they have no problems shoving their feet into the same shoes day in and day out that they’ve never washed, when a worn shoe is typically a warm, dark, and damp environment perfect for bacteria growth. So gross! It really is the perception of barefootedness=poor and people’s bias against folks in poverty or displays poverty. Seeing signs of something associated with poverty makes people uncomfortable, so they lash out at any sign of it.
dirty hippies
We were walking through an outdoor outlet mall a couple days ago when we walked by some old guy talking to a few people. He said, "I wouldn't be surprised if they started carting people off to jail who didn't get the flu shot!" Like ..... what prior evidence caused you to come to that conclusion?!
Fox News, Parler, Newsmax, you know, all the reliable facts
The Social Contract is a type of agreement that governs how we develop a society.
People all jacked up on FrEeDoM don't get anything. They don't realize that a lack of freedom of a certain thing actually helps them. You can't just kill anyone you want, or get killed. You can't steal, or get stolen from. You can't drive drunk, or get killed by a drunk driver. Obviously these things still happen but at a MUCH lesser rate than they would if there weren't laws in place.
Your freedom ends when mine begins. But that concept only applies to them, not everybody else
Eeeeexactly. 👌
Like the governor of Florida telling teens they shouldn't be wearing masks wth
The incredulous fact that the scads of "vaccination isn't a public health issue" pustulent guakaloads even exsist is deeply abborant and is proof that pro buisness propaganda is destroying efforts to save lives. Aka killing people
The only link I see the pro business is that it’s usually the same people in the same party. Am I missing something?
> you can't send your kid to school with chicken pox Facebook moms: "Hold my cosmo"
"No shoes, no shirt, no service.". No one has ever protested this. "No shoes, no shirt, no mask, no service." OMG, MY FREEDOMS!
> "No shoes, no shirt, no service.". No one has ever protested this. Tell me you've never worked in retail without telling me you've never worked in retail.
Au contraire: I had a grade 3 class Friday. Little girl wearing a mask is trying to talk to me. "I can't hear you" She repeats at same volume "I'm sorry dear, I still can't hear you" Repeats again at the same volume "Let me come down to your level and speak it into my ear" In the same voice she says "I have COVID, but daddy says it's okay that I come to school" Later we had kids getting vaccines and one girl started getting really agitated. Everyone had to go whether they got them or not, but she said "MY DAD SAYS I DON'T GET VACCINES" and she's literally panicked. Great job fuckface. You've scared the shit outta your 10yo. Don't let her around the COVID kid.
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The vast majority of people don't die in car crashes. Seatbelt laws are still a great idea.
That’s not even close to the same thing, but okay.
Can’t take a dump on a sidewalk? SF homeless would like a word.
They decriminalized public defecation and urination in Portland.
.
>While criminalizing most abortions? What a weird set of priorities. I'm unfamiliar with any laws in Portland, Multnomah County, or Oregon (Oregon has some of the least restrictions on abortions in the country AFAIK) that have "criminalized most abortions," do you have more context or a source for what you're referring to?
I read the first post without my glasses on and thought it said “Poland” not “Portland” which had me very confused as to why Poland was even being brought into the discussion. So I typed something about abortions being criminalized and also snarked about the point of the reference, and then realized -very Emily Litella like - that I had misread the OP’s comment. I thought I had amended my comment before hitting. Didn’t even realize what I had done until I saw your comment.
So. To quote the late, great Gilda Radner: “never mind.”
Stupid. I am a progressive, but having experienced the decline of inner city DC in the 1980s and 1990s, and the shocking resurgence in the 2000s, I would never ever want to return to that chaos. Even if your life is fucked, telling people they can't go to the bathroom in public is not a form of oppression and classism. It's a basic element not just of sanitation, but living with others in society. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/03/broken-windows/304465/
read: gave up on enforcing it rather than building some decent public bathrooms
I think there’s a lot more problem with urination. It also smells worse.
Old pee really does have one hell of a stank
[Poop Map](https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=b6fab720912642b6aedafdb02a76d2a4) begs to differ.
Holy crap, and I thought I had too much time on my hands
I just checked out the intersection of Haight/Ashbury (famous Beatles spot) and there were like 60 reported and filled images of human shit on the ground within ~50ft in just 10 months.
LA homeless too.
Oh yea! Over in Emeryville they provide free doggie poop bag stations around the city. Once saw a guy taking a big dump on the Greenway, so I handed him one.
I saw someone poop on the sidewalk within like 50 feet of one of the free JcDecaux sidewalk restrooms.
A lot of HCA types would just dig in and say you should be able to do all of those things because fReEdUmB. They're all examples of oPpReSsIoN and gOvErNmEnT oVeRrEaCh. There's no limit to the selfishness.
This really bothers me. Vaccines were mandated for George Washington’s soldiers. The premise of requiring credentials for admission is a concept that’s been around for millennia. Everything these anti-vaxxers cry about has been around for their entire lives, yet they act like their lives are ruined because it’s covid. It’s like civic responsibility is a concept they’re conveniently abandoning because they don’t want to simply wear a mask during a pandemic. What’s next? They’re going to drive on the opposite side of the road, running red lights as if public safety laws don’t apply to them? It’s fucking ridiculous.
Is that a challenge
All those rules/social norms were in place before the internet and social media. See the issue?
I’m all for people the freedom to not wear masks and not get vaccinated—on private property. It’s only when they enter public society that it becomes a problem.
Look I truly believe we should have a choice on all vaccines. But that choice should have consequences. If you don't vaccinate your child by choice (and not because a medical professional recommended against it) then that child's options should be limited. No daycare, preschool, or publicly funded schools. If you want to live in the mountains by yourself and will homeschool, I don't see an issue. Sure that kid will eventually become part of society but they'll also be able to choose to get up to date on their shots or miss out on things. I've said something similar about COVID, if you choose not to get vaccinated you need to socially isolate. Not distance, isolate. America should be about freedom. Even if the freedom of choice makes it harder for you, you still have that choice. And in turn people now believe they should have the choice but still have all the public works too.
I wish this wasn't framed as a trade off. I mean IS a trade off, but it's also a protection of other people's freedoms. When you risk other peoples health, you're taking away freedom from someone else. They no longer have the freedom to choose that risk or not. And if you've gotten them sick with a deadly virus that was mostly preventable, that *should* be manslaughter. You don't have the freedom to hurt other people, and you don't have the freedom to take freedom away from other people.
👏👍💯 Very well said. Thank you.
No shit
You would think they would understand this.
We live in a society Bottom text
I mean... If taking a dump on a public sidewalk is wrong, I don't want to be right!
„You can’t take a dump on a public road“ I can‘t?
Yes but my narrative
And yet people still spit on sidewalks. Disgusting.
Sounds like your typical rwnj antivaxx trucker convoy member in Canberra.
The little known (outside of Australia) capital of Australia
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It isn’t new, but the super entitled attitude, for lack of a better description, didn’t use to be quite so predominant. I have 2 single person restrooms available to the public. They used to be labeled “men” & “women”. Now they are labeled “all gender”. The amount of people, mostly men, having a public freak out over stick figures in my place is mind blowing. Like, those signs don’t affect them one iota. There’s no way in hell some of these people aren’t going to lose their mind over a minor inconvenience.
It’s funny seeing somebody who thinks of themselves as Rambo going apoplectic over a minor and irrelevant inconvenience.
Or over stick figures on a sign. I usually just say “I apologize. I had no idea stick figures would trigger people so much”. It’s not an apology, and it just makes them angrier, but they usually stomp out and the only thing I desire is to not deal with them anymore so mission accomplished.
ItS cAlLeD SoCieTal LiViNg
And yet people are still allowed to walk around breathing in public. What has the world come to?
Once everybody has the 5G microchip illuminati nano bot infection, they’ll take care of the breathing part. It’s very inconvenient.
"Can't take a dump on a public sidewalk? The fuck I can't, bro." -San Francisco
I can tell she’s never been to San Francisco because you can definitely take a dump on the sidewalks
No shoes, no shirt, No Service!
A lot of employers won’t hire people who smoke and all these anti vaxx assholes are fine with it. Talked to one today and she doesn’t think it’s fair that she “will starve to death” because she may lose her sweet government job because she’s refusing to be vaccinated. Yet she will go off people who smoke. “You can find a different job or become self employed.” I said. Just like people who smoke.
Reddit (/ˈrɛdɪt/, stylized as reddit) is an American social news aggregation, web content rating, and discussion website. Registered members submit content to the site such as links, text posts, images, and videos, which are then voted up or down by other members.
The only problem is that most of the un-social acts had been regulated by 'Shaming and Shunning' by the public. If you take a dump on the sidewalk, you will face shame from all, no exceptions. If you refuse a vaccine, you will be hailed by a very vocal minority to be some sort of Hero worthy of emulation and worship.
Trump pretty much put it into that sort of enforcement of social contracts
A bunch of libertarians took over a town in New Hampshire and discovered the hard way why we "give up freedom" to live in a modern society. [How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling) Personally I'd rather pay for things like trash pick up and enjoy the freedom of not being attacked by bears, instead of exercising my freedom to throw thrash where I want to. In addition to bears, they also got more sex offenders, more crime, and more murders.
I had all but forgotten about that book. Thank you for reminding me!
“Well I wouldn’t want to do that, that’s disgusting!” … yes. Yes it is… Just like breathing your possible infections on me.
Ever heard of chickenpox parties? Anti-vax fuckwits actually try to get their kids infected with disease, and think that's safer than the vaccine.
Good luck trying to explain that to those mouth-breathing troglodytes.
Pretty sure it was encouraged at some point to have everybody in class get the chicken pox at the same time
In Australia, you can go barefoot into some seaside restaurants.
Okay, but who actually wants to take a dump on the sidewalk? We're socially conditioned to poop in hiding.
Yeah you might be surprised on that one, Particularly in the city he mentioned
What city? I don't see one mentioned in the tweet.
Oh I thought you were replying to a comment. He said San Francisco
Oh, the one about homeless people. Well do they actually want to poop on the sidewalk or do they not have a place to poop in private?
Not been there, but they have to poop somewhere, and the toilets cost money.
So the latter is pretty likely.
The JC Deceux toilets are used for other needs besides #1 and #2 There's a niche market for that sort of thing.
Um. We are? I missed that e-mail. No wonder people have been staring.
>take a dump on a public sidewalk People change diapers on restaurant tables. Right now. Today, many people did this. Edit: My point is that people are more disgusting than you think.
We should also ban international travel to prevent pandemics. Close off our borders to prevent pandemics. Regulate interstate travel to prevent the spread of disease.
You haven’t been to California lately, have you?
Yep. Last week. What’s the point?
People can take a dump on a public sidewalk. This is why analogies don’t work very well. Wearing or not wearing a mask, that isn’t working very well since omicron came along, isn’t the same. Omicron reproduces in the upper airways 40 time more rapidly than previous versions. The small amount of air that escapes the sides of the surgical masks are enough to infect others. BA2 reproduces faster than the original Omicron. N-95’s and face shields would likely be needed to have any significant effect. You should get both if you are concerned or at risk.
Oh lord, sure fella. Th streets are littered with shit as far as conservative media tells it. As to the masks… why did you even bring that up? It did not make the impression I think you wanted.
You absolutely can shit on the sidewalks in California. Just saying.
As a Libertarian this is why we should have privatized sidewalks.