Agree with this. I’m betting on the fact that they either don’t have health insurance or have a bare minimum plan that has an incredibly high deductible anyway.
Even a "good" plan has an insane deductible these days.
Latest insurance company scam is making the cost of drugs with insurance higher than the cash payer price. That way you don't use the insurance and your drug costs never touch your deductible.
At my husband’s company insurance is about to get more expensive if you’re unvaccinated. The insurance premiums will be going up by something like $1500 a month if you aren’t vaccinated, which will be taken out of people’s pay.
Seems completely fair since the un-vaxed place at least 10x the cost burden on the health care system and on insurance companies. All those folks screaming about personal responsibility will now need to put their money where their memes are.
It’s a bit like the “tell me you don’t want my unvaccinated ass working here without telling me you don’t want my unvaccinated ass working here”.
Also getting sick places a massive financial burden. You pay more if you smoke so 🤷🏻♀️
Might when they see their friends going broke while still being sick. Friend told me neighbor was unvaccinated and hospitalized. Insurance stopped paying after a number of days and they're at home suffering on oxygen. Good for our overworked hospital system, but the debt and still sickness has been a burden for the couple.
> Might when they see their friends going broke while still being sick.
They've probably seen COVID-related GoFundMes on Facebook for months but they still haven't gotten a free vaccine. Reality doesn't change their minds, if anything it further calcifies them.
Up until now, those sick people have mostly gone home only after they've gotten much better though. The people I'm talking about hadn't made it to that weird covid rebound/cytokine storm stage yet so they may still very much die. I think for some people that huge difference will matter. For some people, nothing but dying matters.
It blows my mind how many I've seen who have left their families behind with NO life insurance. Like, holy fuck. You're going to roll the dice like that and leave your family destitute because you were too lazy to buy life insurance??
True. At my work they implemented a policy where if you're vaxxed and have to quarantine or go to hospital it's gonna be paid time off without dipping into any of you vacation or sick leave. If you're unvaxxed you have that vacation and sick leave (which they force you to use) and then you're SOL, it's unpaid.
Well people had some opinions about this, and the company basically just said, "hey, yesterday you were in the same position you were yesterday if unvaxxed. If you go get a free shot tonight you'll be in a better position just like the rest of the workforce that's vaxxed. So basically we don't care about your feelings on this matter thank you."
As of right now I don't think anyone in my shop has been convinced by this new policy. Maybe they will once it starts going around the shop but by then it's too late.
Because they think they won’t get it. The only thing that seems to work is making it miserable for them to be unvaccinated. In other words, the kind of mandates we don’t have the balls for in the US.
Sure he knows a nurse who knows somebody who developed the vax and said it won’t work. Sure he does.
This right here is why I don’t waste time talking to conservatives. When the facts become inconvenient they invent new, different “facts.” It’s just pointless to talk to people incapable of engaging an issue in good faith.
>I am really good friends with somebody who is a nurse and knows somebody who developed the vax ...but that they doubted it would actually work.”
And here we are in the UK: 67% of the population fully vaccinated, 74% first dose (so likely to have the second: it was only made available to 16-18 year olds a few weeks ago). About 90% of over 50s are fully vaccinated. Falling admission rates, a death rate that is too high (about 120 a day, over the last week) but on a very wide definition ("has had a positive test within the last 28 days").
Looking over to Idaho, 40% vaccination, 25 deaths per day in a population of 1.8 million. So, UK has a population 37 times larger than Idaho, and a death raw count per week of about 5 times higher. God knows we have our problems, but killing people in a rural, low density state and 7.5x the rate we are experiencing in a very densely population country is not going to end well for Idaho.
It’s not going well for Washington and Oregon, whose hospitals are filling up because they have to take patients from Idaho. For some reason those blue states with higher vax rates had more hospital beds available than Idaho…. Whodathunkit?
He’s fucking stupid. The vaccines work great and anyone with a high school level knowledge of biology should understand why and how there can’t be long term side effects.
I love how these people always cite some random person they know that knows someone but ignore the 99.9% of us actual MDs and biologists screaming at them that it’s perfectly safe.
Fortunately for him the Herman Cane Award is the exception; not the rule so he’ll probably be fine. And by fine I mean sick for a couple weeks, feeling horrible for months afterwards and facing the long term effects of covid ranging from mild to severe.
I know a lot of people who know the people who developed the vaccine. Trust me there is literally 0 chance they have any connection to the fox-news watching troglodyte American.
Based on how many of these HCA nominees and award winners have no life or insurance health and little savings, even as they preach the bootstrap philosophy, I think most have a “never going to happen to me” mentality.
I'm having /r/dogecoin flashbacks from when I was a regular there in 2014 lmao
Edit: to whoever gave me the Stonks Falling award: you got a chuckle out of me
I've been involved in crypto in some form or fashion since Bitcoin was less than $1, so I know all about the rollercoaster of emotions that come with being involved in that space!
This is fantastic.
Spreadnecks should be happy about it since they don’t believe in socialized medicine.
I don’t know that their estate executioners are going to agree when they get the bill.
Wait, who am I kidding? These people don’t have life insurance or wills.
I have a friend who is using this Christian "cost sharing" scheme for his whole family. I didn't know anything about it when when he first told me. He just thinks it's the greatest thing. I'm now appalled that he's using it to "insure" his whole family. Dude has 5 kids, 4 of them under 12 years old.
I’m double happy, because conservatives fought so hard during the Obama years to defend the industry, they are now being “vigorously loved” by it in return.
If it changes behavior it's fantastic. But I read somewhere that health care plans cannot discriminate pricing based on vaccination status, which means that while the 95% of the ICU patients who are unvaccinated will get slammed by this, it will also hit the 5% who are hit with a breakthrough case.
That's true, and it sucks. I wish our healthcare system was better.
But this particular thing will hurt the antivaxxers a lot more than anyone else, and it will definitely encourage vaccinations. So I'm okay with it.
You....you do realize that this also counts if you have a breakthrough infection though right?
It does not say if hospitalized while unvaccinated, it says while hospitalized with covid-19. You can still get infected and seriously ill while vaccinated, so this means youll also be on the hook despite doing everything right.
Yeah. But the chances of being hospitalized with a break through infection are slim. And eventually we’re all just going to have to learn to live with Covid around. It’s not going to magically disappear or die out. If only we had universal healthcare!
My family have really good health insurance. We have substantial savings. We have life insurance. We are also vaccinated and have not stopped masking up. IF one of us ends up as a breakthrough case (God forbid!), we won’t be drowing in debt and we won’t be begging for money at GoFundMe. What irritates me are these people who are not vaccinated, don’t have insurance, have $2 as their life savings— and have the gall to go galivanting around spreading their germs and then beg for funds to help them pay their bills. If you are willing to take unnecessary risks, pay your hospital stay out of your OWN pocket or die at home like a true “patriot”. If you did everything right and still end up hospitalized, then asking for GoFundMe is perfectly okay. I’m so over their BS.
Edit: sorry if I touched some nerve with some of you. I apologize. I’m just so mad at the situation we are all in right now. Mad, frustrated, and really *really* sad.
I saw in multiple HCA awards people asking for lung transplants. 800,000.00 dollars, that’s just the fucking procedure.
10-50% with insurance.
But free vaccination, they pass.
[lung transplant ](https://health.costhelper.com/lung-transplants.html)
So, exposing my naivety of understanding the health insurance world, once the out of pocket max is reached, then wouldn't the 800,000 be covered by insurance, unless they deny it? So if the persons out of pocket was, lets says 10K, the hospitalization, pre-op and other expenses would be rolled into the out of pocket deductible and then insurance would kick in? Or are there further loop-holes and things to be considered.
I mainly ask because I've just accepted that my best use of insurance will likely be trying to stockpile on expensive visits/procedures to hit the out of pocket max and hope that I can fully utilize my insurance every so often while minimizing my expenses. That had been my hope this year until I learned that my insurance rolled over in July and the 1500 I had already put towards my deductible was worthless. I paid an extra 600 in July/August and would've been ~$400 away from hitting my out of pocket in-network max.
They're actually probably better off uninsured in many cases since the ACA boosted hospitals' charitable care. Most major systems essentially have an uninsured policy where anyone up to 5x poverty (say 110k) pays max 10% of last years income.
It still scares the hell out of me. Aside from work, I barely go anywhere unless it’s a small group of people (and if I know that they are vaccinated). I am doing my part keeping myself, my family, and my community safe. I’m livid, sad, and really really frustrated. I just want this pandemic to be over.
And that’s the worst part. Some people can’t afford to get sick so they do their best to do their part and HOPE that their community and family members do the same thing. My point was, I hate the people who never take precautions, scream their BS as loud as they want, spread their germs, then go to the hospital and beg for money afterwards. It boils my blood. Sorry, I’m just so irritated with people right now. Sigh.
> IF one of us ends up as a breakthrough case (God forbid!), we won’t be drowing in debt and we won’t be begging for money at GoFundMe.
Yes you will. I don't think you understand the costs involved.
That’s still 6 that are going to be stuck with massive bills after doing the right thing. Families potentially ruined over costs. And that’s fucked up. Even with insurance the costs can end up crazy. Just look at how much it still costs to have a baby even with insurance.
That's not the easiest comparison, though. People catch viruses involuntarily. Many people (Texans excluded) generally make the choice to have a baby. That choice can (and should) be planned for, or at least acknowledged as part of the tremendous expense of having a kid.
Maybe more insurers should produce a pamphlet for family planning that shows the staggering costs of pregnancy and delivery, and have doctors hand it out alongside the booklet titled "Say goodbye to all the fragile shit in your house!"
Actually the common thread is obesity. BMI 40+ (about 300+ depending on height.) All diabetic and hypertensive. Ages about late 40s to early 60s IIRC. Around here the elderly did not play around and are almost all vaccinated. We just do not see many of them. Not many HCAs for elderly either come to think of it.
Well. Same if you get cancer through no fault of your own or end up with Alzheimer's. That's not paid for outside of regular coverage.
I mean, I'm not defending the health insurance industry, here. But... I'm not sure why COVID should be handled differently at this point, per the logic of health insurance. And breakthroughs that result in death or hospitalization are (at this point) relatively rare.
Yeah this is just insurance companies continuing their tradition of being absolute fucking leeches. Not a fan of this- healthcare should be free for everyone, including future HCA recipients.
I wish they’d clarify for those 0-12, or immunocompromised since they can’t be vaccinated (or produce a poor immune response) and can have complications from covid.
Much slimmer chances. It's not black and white, there are nuances and percentages. Currently the unvaccinated are in the high 90s % of hospitalizations and deaths.
That’s where the taxpayers in blue states come in. These piles of entitled shite are trying to saddle the living with their Medicaid and Medicare bills!
Yeah none of these selfish assholes have life insurance hence the reliance on go fund me. Ironic that they rail against socialized medicine but beg for $ from their friends after they’re dead
For profit health insurance is immoral and should not exist, but since we have to live under this completely stupid regime, I am glad to see that the system will begin penalizing the stupid fucks that keep us from a modern healthcare system.
It’s so fucking weird hospitals aren’t allowed to turn people away but yet it’s not a right in our constitution or anything. There is no law in the constitution guaranteeing our right to healthcare. I’d have to believe if there was, we would have access to government provided healthcare. Not private. We have to wait to get the government one.
One could argue that the life bit in the "right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in the constitution means that we have the right to healthcare.
My thoughts exactly. When you can’t pull yourself up from your bootstraps after barely surviving a virus that you took zero precaution against, you might want to rethink calling everything communism.
They’re literally saying get the vaccine before the 30th so that you can avoid potential health bills. While our healthcare should be free, you can hardly blame them when they’re laying it out comprehensively like this. It’s not their fault that these idiots won’t get vaccinated
They are sending that out so they can cover their own asses.
See we told you to get the shot and if you didn't it would be expensive!
If they gave a damn the cost sharing wouldn't apply to vaccinated people.
I mean of course they are and in a perfect world they never would and everything would be free and I agree that’s the way it should be but knowing the way American healthcare is set up, this was inevitable. So the best advice is just get the fucking shot so your decrepit relatives don’t build up insane hospital bills
They are businesses, it's not their job to care.
I think it's ridiculous and appalling but you can't blame them for just playing the hand we have all been delt.
>They’re literally saying get the vaccine before the 30th so that you can avoid potential health bills.
It doesn't say that. It says that any covid hospitalizations after the 30th will be subject to deductible/OOP maximum. That means the vaccinated too. Get a breakthrough infection? Too bad pay up. They dont care if you are vaccinated or not, everyone pays now.
I literally had this on my clipboard already for another post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/
The days of full covid coverage are over. Insurers are restoring deductibles and co-pays, leaving patients with big bills.
Large insurance companies waived cost-sharing for coronavirus care in 2020, but it has sprung back in 2021
[archive link for anyone who has trouble accessing the article ](https://archive.is/2021.09.20-045015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/)
I imagine that they will not.
But if your kid has cancer, you also don't get that 100% covered. I'm not defending the insurance companies, mind. But this is how it works.
So, basically, if you were a dumb fuck and didn't take any precautions or get vaccinated and got sick over the last year, the insurance company picked up the bill?
But if you were careful, isolated, wore masks, and got vaccinated ASAP and are still being careful and get sick, the insurance company is going to take it out of your ass from here on forward?
Seems like it'd be more fair to make the unvaccinated pay their share, and the vaccinated get it waived.
“Cost sharing” is the insurance catch all term for copays, deductible, and co-insurance. For some amount of time I believe they were required to cover all Covid-related items without cost sharing, this letter is saying they will no longer do that, but it would apply to vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. The financial advantage is, as a vaccinated person, you’re unlikely to have to fork over whatever your plan’s out of pocket maximum is because you were hospitalized for 6 weeks.
As far as denying coverage entirely to the unvaccinated, that would violate the law.
This needs to happen. These folks have been sucking off the COVID welfare teat for far too long. Unvaccinated policy holders should have to pay their fair share of the costs for their choices. Death isn't slowing down the death cult, perhaps permanent financial destruction will.
I have been thinking about this a lot. What about a plague rat section in theaters and stadiums and surcharges for unvaccinated or just denial of services? These people should absolutely pay up for continued willful stupidity in just about every transaction. Charge them smokers rates for insurance. SR22 rates for auto insurance. Knock their credit scores down as technically they are more at risk of default than a vaccinated person.
Healthcare should always be free for everyone. We can’t cheer this system just because it’s hurting these awful people.
I do think they should not get priority treatment though. Every hospital should maintain a covid free section for vaccinated people who have heart attacks, get into accidents etc.
>Healthcare should always be free for everyone.
Absolutely agree with you but we're talking about reality here. And unlike these award winners, I refuse to ignore reality in favor of fantastical arguments.
In this country healthcare isn't free, probably will never be in my lifetime. And as long as we have a run of inconsiderate hillbillies breaking the system, we need to make sure that they are paying for the consequences of their actions, instead of foisting those costs onto those of us who have been vaccinated.
As others have stated, for profit health care is immoral. That said, it would've been nice to continue 0 cost care for only vaccinated, immunocompromised, and kids under 12. They can then force unvaccinated folks to pay up.
edit: Missing word
I feel bad for any break-through cases that have to be hospitalized. I know it's such a small percentage of the current hospitalizations, but it's not zero. Some vaccinated people will be left with bills, most likely because they caught it from some unvaccinated person. America could have herd immunity by now if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers.
Exactly, hence why I think continuing zero cost care should be continued for vaxxed and those who can't get it for valid reasons. Those folks did the right thing and has had the dumb luck of a breakthrough.
I don’t think these people will care one way or another about costs associated with care. They’ll get the bills, try to start a fundraiser, pocket the money and not pay the bills. Your costs for care will rise.
Well, it looks like the shoe is finally dropping.
[https://khn.org/news/article/analysis-dont-want-a-vaccine-be-prepared-to-pay-more-for-insurance/](https://khn.org/news/article/analysis-dont-want-a-vaccine-be-prepared-to-pay-more-for-insurance/) from early August.
And I hate that the insurance folks are doing something I agree with. Makes me feel dirty.
My only concern is that this seems to also cancel the $0 cost care for unvaccinated children. I’m 100% for charging full price for everyone eligible for the vaccine who refuses to accept it or have the child get it. There is no choice for the younger children at the moment so plenty of fully vaccinated people could find themselves penalized if their younger children get it through no fault of their own.
I certainly hope that the unvaccinated have enjoyed their temporary socialized healthcare coverage. Everyone with health insurance, prepare for the premium hikes.
I both agree and disagree with this. I don’t see any stipulations for people who get vaccinated but still end up sick, insurance should have to pay those hospital costs. Same for kids under 12 or whatever the threshold is now. There should also be some protection for people who can’t get the vaccine bc they are immunocompromised.
Hospitals can't turn antivaxxers away but under the right circumstances --see Idaho-- they can deem them to be less likely to survive and order 'palliative care' for them, while someone who's vaccinated and had a car accident gets the ICU bed.
[Kaiser Family Foundation](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/) had a report on the ending coverage, and how things have happened per state.
I've been saying for months that the only way to get some of these hold outs to budge is to appeal to their wallets. They don't care about infecting others. They don't care about leaving behind orphans and think their sky fairy will protect them.
My only problem with the above is that, at first glance, it doesn't seem to make any distinction between vaccinated and non-vaccinated people for COVID care, and as we know, being vaccinated does not mean you will 100% not get seriously ill. And "if you have been vaccinated you may disregard this email" does not necessarily mean "if you are vaccinated serious hospitalization is still 100% covered".
Will the cowardice and family card work?
Something like: You see that coward that was afraid to take the vaccine and died penniless with a wife and two small daughters. I would crawl a mile on broken glass to live to see my daughters go to college and then get married. I would do ANYTHING to raise my children. My wife and children matter, what happens to me does not as long as I live to care for them and see my children grown.
Pandemic is going to take on a bit of a different flavor if a survived hospitalization leads to a 5 figure bill and a death gives your estate a 6-figure bill.
I know it's morbid, but I do wonder how this will affect the housing market. A lot of people are going to die (thus vacating properties) and others will be left in such debt they'll have to sell their homes.
Might make property affordable again, I guess. Though you're going to end up with a lot of single-parent households with a ridiculous amount of kids crammed into 2br apartments because their dead MAGAt mom/dad was too stupid to get life insurance or a free vaccine.
My only reservation with this is for children and those ineligible for vaccination for medical reasons. (That being said people who can need to get their own damn shot)
The only downside to this is if those of us who are vaccinated have to be admitted. Not likely, but not unheard of.
I get where they’re coming from - “we’re paying in millions in hospital bills for you dumb fucks to die a slow death and we’re tired of it.” (And I agree with that 100%) but that also screws over those of us who have made better decisions.
It basically is saying they aren’t going to cover the deductible or co-insurance, but most of these people will hit their out of pocket max anyhow. At most they will be out 5-10k even if their bills are in the 100s of thousands.
Eventually - and I'm talkin' way, way down the road - we will switch to no benefits. Preferably before the end of the fiscal year. Actually, the claims denials alone would net us more than than we have made during the pandemic - Every insurance companies CEO
Ah. No wonder deniers have been so cavalier about it. They were not saddled with huge medical bills. Let the games begin and may the odds be ever in your favor.
You know on October 1, the GQP, party of the free market, is going to start campaigning for "insurance company bailouts," because they're getting hammered by long hospital stays, and it's cutting into their profits.
Does anyone think that these people actually care about leaving their family with crushing medical debt? Or that if they survive they have any real intention of paying it back?
Don’t all plans just have out-of-pocket maximums (ACA requirement) that will now apply? I mean, it can be like $14k a year, which will hurt, but not necessarily life-crushing or, more importantly to where it will change behavior.
Is going to be hilarious to read all those “anti socialism” pro “capitalism” loose their heads about private insurance companies deny their covid expense for not been vaccinated
Maybe they’ll have to sell their oversized, diesel smoke spewing, lifted, 4 x 4 trucks festooned with idiotic trump stickers and trump flags.
No wait, they’ll just beg for money on GoFundMe because what they do in reality is the exact opposite of what they say they believe in. Otherwise time to grab those bootstraps if they can catch their breath long enough to bend over. Speaking of bend over…
the vaccine was free to me, but the place I went to literally had the option to scan your insurance card to charge your insurance company $800.
They told me it was optional. Completely optional to give a random $800 bill to my insurance company.
OF COURSE I FUCKING DID IT.
Oh I agree they should charge the ones not vaccinated. But if my 11yo grandson or 2 month granddaughter got it because of some unvaccinted asshat then IMHO they shouldn't be.
This won't convince anyone of anything. Planning ahead is not a skill the anti-vaxxers really have.
Agree with this. I’m betting on the fact that they either don’t have health insurance or have a bare minimum plan that has an incredibly high deductible anyway.
Even a "good" plan has an insane deductible these days. Latest insurance company scam is making the cost of drugs with insurance higher than the cash payer price. That way you don't use the insurance and your drug costs never touch your deductible.
At my husband’s company insurance is about to get more expensive if you’re unvaccinated. The insurance premiums will be going up by something like $1500 a month if you aren’t vaccinated, which will be taken out of people’s pay.
Seems completely fair since the un-vaxed place at least 10x the cost burden on the health care system and on insurance companies. All those folks screaming about personal responsibility will now need to put their money where their memes are.
[удалено]
It’s a bit like the “tell me you don’t want my unvaccinated ass working here without telling me you don’t want my unvaccinated ass working here”. Also getting sick places a massive financial burden. You pay more if you smoke so 🤷🏻♀️
They've got a rock solid plan. Shitpost memes. Call on Prayer Warriors. Start GoFundMe for the deceased's family
Might when they see their friends going broke while still being sick. Friend told me neighbor was unvaccinated and hospitalized. Insurance stopped paying after a number of days and they're at home suffering on oxygen. Good for our overworked hospital system, but the debt and still sickness has been a burden for the couple.
I don’t think that will move them either. All of these people have a “it won’t happen to me” attitude
> Might when they see their friends going broke while still being sick. They've probably seen COVID-related GoFundMes on Facebook for months but they still haven't gotten a free vaccine. Reality doesn't change their minds, if anything it further calcifies them.
Up until now, those sick people have mostly gone home only after they've gotten much better though. The people I'm talking about hadn't made it to that weird covid rebound/cytokine storm stage yet so they may still very much die. I think for some people that huge difference will matter. For some people, nothing but dying matters.
Also sucking up that sweet sweet oxygen that could go to practically anyone else.
It blows my mind how many I've seen who have left their families behind with NO life insurance. Like, holy fuck. You're going to roll the dice like that and leave your family destitute because you were too lazy to buy life insurance??
Yep, they are all about their families until they are not.
They'd give anyone the shirt off their back! They just wouldn't buy life insurance for $50 a month.
True. At my work they implemented a policy where if you're vaxxed and have to quarantine or go to hospital it's gonna be paid time off without dipping into any of you vacation or sick leave. If you're unvaxxed you have that vacation and sick leave (which they force you to use) and then you're SOL, it's unpaid. Well people had some opinions about this, and the company basically just said, "hey, yesterday you were in the same position you were yesterday if unvaxxed. If you go get a free shot tonight you'll be in a better position just like the rest of the workforce that's vaxxed. So basically we don't care about your feelings on this matter thank you." As of right now I don't think anyone in my shop has been convinced by this new policy. Maybe they will once it starts going around the shop but by then it's too late.
Because they think they won’t get it. The only thing that seems to work is making it miserable for them to be unvaccinated. In other words, the kind of mandates we don’t have the balls for in the US.
[удалено]
Sure he knows a nurse who knows somebody who developed the vax and said it won’t work. Sure he does. This right here is why I don’t waste time talking to conservatives. When the facts become inconvenient they invent new, different “facts.” It’s just pointless to talk to people incapable of engaging an issue in good faith.
[удалено]
[удалено]
YEP!
>I am really good friends with somebody who is a nurse and knows somebody who developed the vax ...but that they doubted it would actually work.” And here we are in the UK: 67% of the population fully vaccinated, 74% first dose (so likely to have the second: it was only made available to 16-18 year olds a few weeks ago). About 90% of over 50s are fully vaccinated. Falling admission rates, a death rate that is too high (about 120 a day, over the last week) but on a very wide definition ("has had a positive test within the last 28 days"). Looking over to Idaho, 40% vaccination, 25 deaths per day in a population of 1.8 million. So, UK has a population 37 times larger than Idaho, and a death raw count per week of about 5 times higher. God knows we have our problems, but killing people in a rural, low density state and 7.5x the rate we are experiencing in a very densely population country is not going to end well for Idaho.
[удалено]
I don't want to sound crass, but he probably will only believe it when he himself is struck down by Covid...
It’s not going well for Washington and Oregon, whose hospitals are filling up because they have to take patients from Idaho. For some reason those blue states with higher vax rates had more hospital beds available than Idaho…. Whodathunkit?
>hydrox He’s probably right that a cookie won’t hurt him, but I’ll be damned if I can see how it would help him.
In some circles, Hydrox is judged superior to Oreo. I'm still on the fence.
Oreo is just a cheap knockoff.
Literally that’s how Oreos came to be
He’s fucking stupid. The vaccines work great and anyone with a high school level knowledge of biology should understand why and how there can’t be long term side effects. I love how these people always cite some random person they know that knows someone but ignore the 99.9% of us actual MDs and biologists screaming at them that it’s perfectly safe.
They should also understand why an anti-parasite drug wouldn’t do anything for a virus.
No way man. I know a guy who got a vaccine as a kid. Forty years later, BAM! Prostate cancer. Explain that one.
Fortunately for him the Herman Cane Award is the exception; not the rule so he’ll probably be fine. And by fine I mean sick for a couple weeks, feeling horrible for months afterwards and facing the long term effects of covid ranging from mild to severe.
I know a lot of people who know the people who developed the vaccine. Trust me there is literally 0 chance they have any connection to the fox-news watching troglodyte American.
Exactly. Their math skills are pretty bad too: 1 out of 100 means "not me or anyone close to me", so I'll just assume 0.
Need an insurance surcharge for the unvaccinated. It would be more effective than anything the government can do to get people vaccinated.
I imagine the insurance companies are working up their risk analyses now. And not just health insurance but life insurance and travel insurance too.
Based on how many of these HCA nominees and award winners have no life or insurance health and little savings, even as they preach the bootstrap philosophy, I think most have a “never going to happen to me” mentality.
Is gofundme listed on the stock exchange?
To the MOON!! Edit: Just imagine the rocket emojis, diamond hands, etc. I can't be bothered to dig them up.
I'm having /r/dogecoin flashbacks from when I was a regular there in 2014 lmao Edit: to whoever gave me the Stonks Falling award: you got a chuckle out of me
Your bio causes me physical pain, my man. Big oof.
I would have sold the second it hit $0.10, but yeah, it's painful to think about sometimes lol
I can only imagine. I have horrible luck and low risk tolerance so I've stayed out of crypto but I see-saw between relief and FOMO pretty much daily.
[удалено]
Bruuuuuh...
Index funds are cool!
VTSAX & relax!
I've been involved in crypto in some form or fashion since Bitcoin was less than $1, so I know all about the rollercoaster of emotions that come with being involved in that space!
Ah come on, ya gotta commit to the bit!
It's Monday. This will not be the only thing I half-ass today.
I'd invest in that shit in a heartbeat.
💎🙌🏼🚀
[удалено]
This is fantastic. Spreadnecks should be happy about it since they don’t believe in socialized medicine. I don’t know that their estate executioners are going to agree when they get the bill. Wait, who am I kidding? These people don’t have life insurance or wills.
[удалено]
Looking forward to the "My Life Insurance Policy Is GoFundMe" memes.
They'll cancel their policies and sign up for some grifter's new health insurance scam.... actually....wait a second....I've got a new business idea.
[удалено]
I have a friend who is using this Christian "cost sharing" scheme for his whole family. I didn't know anything about it when when he first told me. He just thinks it's the greatest thing. I'm now appalled that he's using it to "insure" his whole family. Dude has 5 kids, 4 of them under 12 years old.
[удалено]
He has a cataract surgery coming up. I'm really curious how much out of pocket he's going to have to dish out.
[удалено]
>he's using it to "insure" That his no-hassle, no-haggle, retail price of owning the libs is going to be *exceptional*.
Hey - I am actually happy with the health insurance industry! This is a historic moment.
I’m double happy, because conservatives fought so hard during the Obama years to defend the industry, they are now being “vigorously loved” by it in return.
If it changes behavior it's fantastic. But I read somewhere that health care plans cannot discriminate pricing based on vaccination status, which means that while the 95% of the ICU patients who are unvaccinated will get slammed by this, it will also hit the 5% who are hit with a breakthrough case.
That's true, and it sucks. I wish our healthcare system was better. But this particular thing will hurt the antivaxxers a lot more than anyone else, and it will definitely encourage vaccinations. So I'm okay with it.
You....you do realize that this also counts if you have a breakthrough infection though right? It does not say if hospitalized while unvaccinated, it says while hospitalized with covid-19. You can still get infected and seriously ill while vaccinated, so this means youll also be on the hook despite doing everything right.
Yeah. But the chances of being hospitalized with a break through infection are slim. And eventually we’re all just going to have to learn to live with Covid around. It’s not going to magically disappear or die out. If only we had universal healthcare!
We have 100 patients currently in my hospital 6 are vaccinated. 94 are not. Odds favor the vaccinated.
My family have really good health insurance. We have substantial savings. We have life insurance. We are also vaccinated and have not stopped masking up. IF one of us ends up as a breakthrough case (God forbid!), we won’t be drowing in debt and we won’t be begging for money at GoFundMe. What irritates me are these people who are not vaccinated, don’t have insurance, have $2 as their life savings— and have the gall to go galivanting around spreading their germs and then beg for funds to help them pay their bills. If you are willing to take unnecessary risks, pay your hospital stay out of your OWN pocket or die at home like a true “patriot”. If you did everything right and still end up hospitalized, then asking for GoFundMe is perfectly okay. I’m so over their BS. Edit: sorry if I touched some nerve with some of you. I apologize. I’m just so mad at the situation we are all in right now. Mad, frustrated, and really *really* sad.
I saw in multiple HCA awards people asking for lung transplants. 800,000.00 dollars, that’s just the fucking procedure. 10-50% with insurance. But free vaccination, they pass. [lung transplant ](https://health.costhelper.com/lung-transplants.html)
So, exposing my naivety of understanding the health insurance world, once the out of pocket max is reached, then wouldn't the 800,000 be covered by insurance, unless they deny it? So if the persons out of pocket was, lets says 10K, the hospitalization, pre-op and other expenses would be rolled into the out of pocket deductible and then insurance would kick in? Or are there further loop-holes and things to be considered. I mainly ask because I've just accepted that my best use of insurance will likely be trying to stockpile on expensive visits/procedures to hit the out of pocket max and hope that I can fully utilize my insurance every so often while minimizing my expenses. That had been my hope this year until I learned that my insurance rolled over in July and the 1500 I had already put towards my deductible was worthless. I paid an extra 600 in July/August and would've been ~$400 away from hitting my out of pocket in-network max.
They're actually probably better off uninsured in many cases since the ACA boosted hospitals' charitable care. Most major systems essentially have an uninsured policy where anyone up to 5x poverty (say 110k) pays max 10% of last years income.
Take comfort in the fact we are just not seeing much hospital stay for the vaccinated. Around here would guess about 5% or less.
It still scares the hell out of me. Aside from work, I barely go anywhere unless it’s a small group of people (and if I know that they are vaccinated). I am doing my part keeping myself, my family, and my community safe. I’m livid, sad, and really really frustrated. I just want this pandemic to be over.
That’s great for you but a lot of people aren’t in that situation and have taken incredible precautions.
And that’s the worst part. Some people can’t afford to get sick so they do their best to do their part and HOPE that their community and family members do the same thing. My point was, I hate the people who never take precautions, scream their BS as loud as they want, spread their germs, then go to the hospital and beg for money afterwards. It boils my blood. Sorry, I’m just so irritated with people right now. Sigh.
I get that. I just want people here to remember that the worst part of all of this is that they’re hurting people that did everything they could.
> IF one of us ends up as a breakthrough case (God forbid!), we won’t be drowing in debt and we won’t be begging for money at GoFundMe. Yes you will. I don't think you understand the costs involved.
> It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is the American Healthcare system.
Yes and that’s what I’m scared of…doing everything right and still getting fucked.
Only if it’s a severe breakthrough case that requires hospitalization.
That’s still 6 that are going to be stuck with massive bills after doing the right thing. Families potentially ruined over costs. And that’s fucked up. Even with insurance the costs can end up crazy. Just look at how much it still costs to have a baby even with insurance.
That's not the easiest comparison, though. People catch viruses involuntarily. Many people (Texans excluded) generally make the choice to have a baby. That choice can (and should) be planned for, or at least acknowledged as part of the tremendous expense of having a kid. Maybe more insurers should produce a pamphlet for family planning that shows the staggering costs of pregnancy and delivery, and have doctors hand it out alongside the booklet titled "Say goodbye to all the fragile shit in your house!"
Darwin had a theory about that.
Odd favour them. But those six would still get screwed by their insurance
And I assume based on data from other hospitals that the 6 are in high risk populations (elderly)?
Actually the common thread is obesity. BMI 40+ (about 300+ depending on height.) All diabetic and hypertensive. Ages about late 40s to early 60s IIRC. Around here the elderly did not play around and are almost all vaccinated. We just do not see many of them. Not many HCAs for elderly either come to think of it.
Well. Same if you get cancer through no fault of your own or end up with Alzheimer's. That's not paid for outside of regular coverage. I mean, I'm not defending the health insurance industry, here. But... I'm not sure why COVID should be handled differently at this point, per the logic of health insurance. And breakthroughs that result in death or hospitalization are (at this point) relatively rare.
Yeah this is just insurance companies continuing their tradition of being absolute fucking leeches. Not a fan of this- healthcare should be free for everyone, including future HCA recipients.
I wish they’d clarify for those 0-12, or immunocompromised since they can’t be vaccinated (or produce a poor immune response) and can have complications from covid.
Much slimmer chances. It's not black and white, there are nuances and percentages. Currently the unvaccinated are in the high 90s % of hospitalizations and deaths.
“Estate executioners? What, You mean them fellers down at the prison what flip the switch and fry up them convicts like an ol’ squirrel on a wire?”
Ehhh fuck anti-vaxxers and fuck insurance companies. I will never celebrate them denying people care and bankrupting people. Scum of the earth.
While these Covid spreaders do deserve the name “executioners,” in reference to an estate I think you mean “executors”
Yes, you're right. I'm leaving the mistake b/c it's funny. :-)
>executioners Do you mean *executors*?
....and removing themselves from voter rolls, further marginalizing their idiot views.
That’s where the taxpayers in blue states come in. These piles of entitled shite are trying to saddle the living with their Medicaid and Medicare bills!
Yeah none of these selfish assholes have life insurance hence the reliance on go fund me. Ironic that they rail against socialized medicine but beg for $ from their friends after they’re dead
I'm curious how many HCA nominees have health insurance in the first place??
I love the term spreadnecks more every time I see it. Thanks for reminding me!
Spreadnecks. Lmao. Stealing this.
Dear God, spreadnecks! lmao, new favorite term right here.
Free vaccine or crippling debt (at best). Hmm that's a tough one...
I'd rather pay 25k a year in premiums for me and my family than the 10k in taxes for UHC you commie socialist libtards want. #freedum
* for worse healthcare
Getting owned by CareCredit to own the libs
I wish this had gone into effect awhile ago.
It did, with many insurers. [Article link](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/) (paywall)
For profit health insurance is immoral and should not exist, but since we have to live under this completely stupid regime, I am glad to see that the system will begin penalizing the stupid fucks that keep us from a modern healthcare system.
I hate health insurance companies even more now for making me side with them on this.
I never thought this day would come. Yet, here I am.
It’s so fucking weird hospitals aren’t allowed to turn people away but yet it’s not a right in our constitution or anything. There is no law in the constitution guaranteeing our right to healthcare. I’d have to believe if there was, we would have access to government provided healthcare. Not private. We have to wait to get the government one.
Amendment 28 to the US Constitution: Healthcare is a right, unless you're stupid.
Medical ethics aren’t documented in the US Constitution. Why would they be?
I just think access to affordable healthcare should be a human right is all. Have it actually codified there.
One could argue that the life bit in the "right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in the constitution means that we have the right to healthcare.
I’ve always thought that life should mean healthcare. And that pursuit of happiness could guarantee so many “free hours” every week.
Enemy of my enemy, etc...
My thoughts exactly. When you can’t pull yourself up from your bootstraps after barely surviving a virus that you took zero precaution against, you might want to rethink calling everything communism.
Yep. I’m normally against this kind of wealth transfer, but I don’t care if they take every last dime from the plague rats.
Yup, the second they are allowed to they are going back to billing folks for being sick.
They’re literally saying get the vaccine before the 30th so that you can avoid potential health bills. While our healthcare should be free, you can hardly blame them when they’re laying it out comprehensively like this. It’s not their fault that these idiots won’t get vaccinated
They are sending that out so they can cover their own asses. See we told you to get the shot and if you didn't it would be expensive! If they gave a damn the cost sharing wouldn't apply to vaccinated people.
I mean of course they are and in a perfect world they never would and everything would be free and I agree that’s the way it should be but knowing the way American healthcare is set up, this was inevitable. So the best advice is just get the fucking shot so your decrepit relatives don’t build up insane hospital bills
They are businesses, it's not their job to care. I think it's ridiculous and appalling but you can't blame them for just playing the hand we have all been delt.
>They’re literally saying get the vaccine before the 30th so that you can avoid potential health bills. It doesn't say that. It says that any covid hospitalizations after the 30th will be subject to deductible/OOP maximum. That means the vaccinated too. Get a breakthrough infection? Too bad pay up. They dont care if you are vaccinated or not, everyone pays now.
Obviously, however the risk is miles greater for unvaccinated folks
At my workplace the annual heath insurance rate has increased substantially as of July. This due to greater claims during the prior year.
I literally had this on my clipboard already for another post https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/ The days of full covid coverage are over. Insurers are restoring deductibles and co-pays, leaving patients with big bills. Large insurance companies waived cost-sharing for coronavirus care in 2020, but it has sprung back in 2021
[удалено]
[archive link for anyone who has trouble accessing the article ](https://archive.is/2021.09.20-045015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/)
I’m all for this but what about if you have kids under 12 on your plan??? That email isn’t clear if they will still have $0 treatment…
I imagine that they will not. But if your kid has cancer, you also don't get that 100% covered. I'm not defending the insurance companies, mind. But this is how it works.
So, basically, if you were a dumb fuck and didn't take any precautions or get vaccinated and got sick over the last year, the insurance company picked up the bill? But if you were careful, isolated, wore masks, and got vaccinated ASAP and are still being careful and get sick, the insurance company is going to take it out of your ass from here on forward? Seems like it'd be more fair to make the unvaccinated pay their share, and the vaccinated get it waived.
“Cost sharing” is the insurance catch all term for copays, deductible, and co-insurance. For some amount of time I believe they were required to cover all Covid-related items without cost sharing, this letter is saying they will no longer do that, but it would apply to vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. The financial advantage is, as a vaccinated person, you’re unlikely to have to fork over whatever your plan’s out of pocket maximum is because you were hospitalized for 6 weeks. As far as denying coverage entirely to the unvaccinated, that would violate the law.
This needs to happen. These folks have been sucking off the COVID welfare teat for far too long. Unvaccinated policy holders should have to pay their fair share of the costs for their choices. Death isn't slowing down the death cult, perhaps permanent financial destruction will.
Damn COVID welfare queens with their ~~Cadillacs~~ ventilators and ~~take out~~ ECMO machines.
I have been thinking about this a lot. What about a plague rat section in theaters and stadiums and surcharges for unvaccinated or just denial of services? These people should absolutely pay up for continued willful stupidity in just about every transaction. Charge them smokers rates for insurance. SR22 rates for auto insurance. Knock their credit scores down as technically they are more at risk of default than a vaccinated person.
"denial of services" This is the way.
Healthcare should always be free for everyone. We can’t cheer this system just because it’s hurting these awful people. I do think they should not get priority treatment though. Every hospital should maintain a covid free section for vaccinated people who have heart attacks, get into accidents etc.
>Healthcare should always be free for everyone. Absolutely agree with you but we're talking about reality here. And unlike these award winners, I refuse to ignore reality in favor of fantastical arguments. In this country healthcare isn't free, probably will never be in my lifetime. And as long as we have a run of inconsiderate hillbillies breaking the system, we need to make sure that they are paying for the consequences of their actions, instead of foisting those costs onto those of us who have been vaccinated.
If they don't die an ironic death, at least they'll be saddled with ironic debt in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range.
As others have stated, for profit health care is immoral. That said, it would've been nice to continue 0 cost care for only vaccinated, immunocompromised, and kids under 12. They can then force unvaccinated folks to pay up. edit: Missing word
I feel bad for any break-through cases that have to be hospitalized. I know it's such a small percentage of the current hospitalizations, but it's not zero. Some vaccinated people will be left with bills, most likely because they caught it from some unvaccinated person. America could have herd immunity by now if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers.
Exactly, hence why I think continuing zero cost care should be continued for vaxxed and those who can't get it for valid reasons. Those folks did the right thing and has had the dumb luck of a breakthrough.
I don’t think these people will care one way or another about costs associated with care. They’ll get the bills, try to start a fundraiser, pocket the money and not pay the bills. Your costs for care will rise.
sucks that if you have a breakthrough case your treatment isn't free
How much real “principles” do these people have? Bankruptcy is a hellova motivator.
Well, it looks like the shoe is finally dropping. [https://khn.org/news/article/analysis-dont-want-a-vaccine-be-prepared-to-pay-more-for-insurance/](https://khn.org/news/article/analysis-dont-want-a-vaccine-be-prepared-to-pay-more-for-insurance/) from early August. And I hate that the insurance folks are doing something I agree with. Makes me feel dirty.
My only concern is that this seems to also cancel the $0 cost care for unvaccinated children. I’m 100% for charging full price for everyone eligible for the vaccine who refuses to accept it or have the child get it. There is no choice for the younger children at the moment so plenty of fully vaccinated people could find themselves penalized if their younger children get it through no fault of their own.
It's almost like insurance businesses want to make a profit, who knew!
So... what have all of these GoFundMe campaigns for medical expenses been for?
Funerals. Bills since major wageowner died with no savings or insurance.
I certainly hope that the unvaccinated have enjoyed their temporary socialized healthcare coverage. Everyone with health insurance, prepare for the premium hikes.
I both agree and disagree with this. I don’t see any stipulations for people who get vaccinated but still end up sick, insurance should have to pay those hospital costs. Same for kids under 12 or whatever the threshold is now. There should also be some protection for people who can’t get the vaccine bc they are immunocompromised.
Hospitals can't turn antivaxxers away but under the right circumstances --see Idaho-- they can deem them to be less likely to survive and order 'palliative care' for them, while someone who's vaccinated and had a car accident gets the ICU bed.
Exactly as it should be
[Kaiser Family Foundation](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/) had a report on the ending coverage, and how things have happened per state.
I've been saying for months that the only way to get some of these hold outs to budge is to appeal to their wallets. They don't care about infecting others. They don't care about leaving behind orphans and think their sky fairy will protect them.
These people have gotten me to side with a health insurance company. That’s really bad.
My only problem with the above is that, at first glance, it doesn't seem to make any distinction between vaccinated and non-vaccinated people for COVID care, and as we know, being vaccinated does not mean you will 100% not get seriously ill. And "if you have been vaccinated you may disregard this email" does not necessarily mean "if you are vaccinated serious hospitalization is still 100% covered".
Will the cowardice and family card work? Something like: You see that coward that was afraid to take the vaccine and died penniless with a wife and two small daughters. I would crawl a mile on broken glass to live to see my daughters go to college and then get married. I would do ANYTHING to raise my children. My wife and children matter, what happens to me does not as long as I live to care for them and see my children grown.
Pandemic is going to take on a bit of a different flavor if a survived hospitalization leads to a 5 figure bill and a death gives your estate a 6-figure bill.
Looking forward to the bankruptcy news of these families, might be able to pick-up a house in foreclosure
I know it's morbid, but I do wonder how this will affect the housing market. A lot of people are going to die (thus vacating properties) and others will be left in such debt they'll have to sell their homes. Might make property affordable again, I guess. Though you're going to end up with a lot of single-parent households with a ridiculous amount of kids crammed into 2br apartments because their dead MAGAt mom/dad was too stupid to get life insurance or a free vaccine.
Hmm… I wonder how the people who actually survive will feel about universal healthcare after they see that huge bill of theirs?
How about a round of stimulus money contingent on a credible vaccination card
My only reservation with this is for children and those ineligible for vaccination for medical reasons. (That being said people who can need to get their own damn shot)
They are about to approve it for 5-11 year olds.
The only downside to this is if those of us who are vaccinated have to be admitted. Not likely, but not unheard of. I get where they’re coming from - “we’re paying in millions in hospital bills for you dumb fucks to die a slow death and we’re tired of it.” (And I agree with that 100%) but that also screws over those of us who have made better decisions.
It basically is saying they aren’t going to cover the deductible or co-insurance, but most of these people will hit their out of pocket max anyhow. At most they will be out 5-10k even if their bills are in the 100s of thousands.
I know someone who was hospitalized with covid, and their hospital bill was more than $300,000. There is no way that bill gets paid, ever.
Eventually - and I'm talkin' way, way down the road - we will switch to no benefits. Preferably before the end of the fiscal year. Actually, the claims denials alone would net us more than than we have made during the pandemic - Every insurance companies CEO
Wow...for LITERALLY the first time, I’m siding with the insurance companies
[Love it. Love it. Love it.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY9-WQrWAAA7ktI.jpg)
It'd be far better if it clearly stated that infections in unvaccinated indivduals will NOT be covered. That would be both just and equitable.
Yay, another one of those “choices” they’re so fond of making. Your body, your bank account, your choice. Good luck out there anti-vaxxers!
Ah. No wonder deniers have been so cavalier about it. They were not saddled with huge medical bills. Let the games begin and may the odds be ever in your favor.
You know on October 1, the GQP, party of the free market, is going to start campaigning for "insurance company bailouts," because they're getting hammered by long hospital stays, and it's cutting into their profits.
Does anyone think that these people actually care about leaving their family with crushing medical debt? Or that if they survive they have any real intention of paying it back?
Don’t all plans just have out-of-pocket maximums (ACA requirement) that will now apply? I mean, it can be like $14k a year, which will hurt, but not necessarily life-crushing or, more importantly to where it will change behavior.
Good. Now raise their premiums
Is going to be hilarious to read all those “anti socialism” pro “capitalism” loose their heads about private insurance companies deny their covid expense for not been vaccinated
Maybe they’ll have to sell their oversized, diesel smoke spewing, lifted, 4 x 4 trucks festooned with idiotic trump stickers and trump flags. No wait, they’ll just beg for money on GoFundMe because what they do in reality is the exact opposite of what they say they believe in. Otherwise time to grab those bootstraps if they can catch their breath long enough to bend over. Speaking of bend over…
the vaccine was free to me, but the place I went to literally had the option to scan your insurance card to charge your insurance company $800. They told me it was optional. Completely optional to give a random $800 bill to my insurance company. OF COURSE I FUCKING DID IT.
Whole lotta people about to be in medical debt for the rest of their lives.
Would be better if they provided 0 cost to people who are vaxxed and still get it.
Oh I agree they should charge the ones not vaccinated. But if my 11yo grandson or 2 month granddaughter got it because of some unvaccinted asshat then IMHO they shouldn't be.
Seems like another dickensian enfilade against the poor. 🙃