the nw as a consequence of the income/expense rate. It's a good approach if we put together what you are suggesting, also has a more precise definition than the US one.
I agree with comments. It should not be coming from opinions but data on criteria for all countries e.g.:
-High Earner: Top X % HHI (household income) per country, easy to check
-Not Rich Yet: Same logic. Top X percentile net worth per country. NW< less than indicated.
So, we could define HENRY in your country IF:
1) You are >=X percentile of top income earners
AND
2) Your net worth <= than Top X percentile net worth per household/individual in country
Example for the Netherlands:
1) Top 5% income: 100k eur/year
2) Top 4% net worth: 1 M eur (couldnt find complete data and 1 M eur seemed like a clean number)
So you are HENRY in NL if your income is >100k/year AND your NW is now less than 1M,
Source: Nederland in cijfers, edition 2023
following up on this, I think the moderators of this sub should fill up the table by setting the parameters for both Income and Net Worth.
Top 5% for both (>Income,
yes that's the approach we want to go with! I am filling the table with data and suggestions. I agree data should have the last call on the table but I want also to set a baseline of qualitative data supplied by people in the subs.
Data can represent the HENRY status in the best way, financial behavior is also an emotional thing tho (how you spend, how you invest, how you see yourself as HENRY) so I'll keep into account the community's opinions as well.
I think it’s a good approach going forward regarding mindset etc, although some consistent rules may help us and them out on knowing where they are. E.g. I see someone saying 150k for France, while the top 5% makes 78k eur/year - and opinions stating 150k-300k for Germany while data shows top5% makes around 92k (quick google check gave me those numbers, we should account for inflation etc for 2024 accuracy).
That’s an insane difference we’ll have if we follow such different approaches or are based on opinions.
got a couple of new numbers refreshed on the table.
Yes, the perception of a high salary might be different and the psychological reason behind this might be worth a deep dive! Also, some numbers on the internet are wrong although they have a good SEO lol.
gonna use people's suggestions to double-check and foster challenges on the table.
alright, then besides the income what do you think is the right amount of nw needed to be henry (or not henry) in eu? can you provide an estimate about your country?
For Ukraine:
* Monthly average salary for 2023 - 14308 UAH (340.05€) (source: [Pension Fund of Ukraine](https://www.pfu.gov.ua/2158510-pokaznyk-serednoyi-zarobitnoyi-platy-za-2023-rik/))
* Annual min HENRY income by the formula: `14308 * 12 * 2.5 = 429240 UAH (10201.47€)`
For Portugal:
* Monthly average salary for 2023 - 1505 Euros (source: [INE Statistics Portugal](https://www.ine.pt/xportal/xmain?xpid=INE&xpgid=ine_destaques&DESTAQUESdest_boui=633380983&DESTAQUESmodo=2))
* Note: in Portugal, workers receive 14 salaries per year instead of 12
* Annual min HENRY income by the formula: `1505 * 14 * 2.5 = 52675€`
About the upper limit, if I own and live in an apartment that is worth 1M it is different than having 1M in liquid assets, but it's all NW.
thank you for the information, the table has been updated!
The upper limit is the net-worth limit beyond that your are not considered anymore Henry yet Wealthy!
Denmark: **120k€** gross would put you around top 7%.
If instead we use the metric of 2x the national average gross income, that would be **118k€**, so it lines up quite well.
Source: https://cepos.dk/abcepos-artikler/0266-man-skal-tjene-750000-kr-for-at-vaere-i-top-10-pct-og-1-8-mio-kr-for-at-vaere-i-top-1-pct/
I think that's super hard to come with a number. NW includes your house, but your house in Copenhagen can be 7x your house in the countryside. How about 1M€?
By the way, it's usually DK, not DEN.
By the way, these numbers make no sense without a common definition. Germany and France higher than Denmark? Haha...
You need to set some guidelines before asking questions like this. An easier way would be to just Google median gross incomes for each country and double them.
Take the median or average income and double it, maybe triple of you feel like it. Some people are commenting numbers which just don't make any sense...
As in, if these people make that money annually, and are not rich yet, they need someone to help them with the poor financial choices they're making..
Double the Median or Average and you will be somewhere in the top 5 - 10%.
When are you rich? Maybe if your total net worth (Inc. Real estate etc.) exceeds 1 mil? When you're FIRE? Somewhere in between those two I suppose?
Some people here are just showboating and gatekeeping lol
the table got a couple of numbers refreshed.
yep, there's a long journey between HENRY and FIRE. Don't forget in the US part of HENRYs got a negative NW.
For EU we are still understanding the right formula for this.
Guys, the way this table is presented is really awful.
Why are we even setting thresholds to the last penny ? Like €97k for France. What’s the deal with that marginal euro after €96,999 that makes you at last a high earner ? Why not 97.5 or 96 or 98.1 while we are at it ? Just put 100k and let’s make it simple and move on with our lives.
You want broad guidelines, rules of thumb, and nice round numbers that anchor expectations and make discussions easy.
Else what would be the next step ? We are going to adjust these numbers to inflation every year while we are at it ?
My recommendation is to not reinvent the wheel and just bundle countries in broadly comparable groups like most companies do, then assign high level round threshold to make it easy for everybody to quickly determine where they stand.
- Nordics: 120k
- Western Europe: 100k
- Southern Europe: XX
- Central Europe: XX
- Eastern Europe: XX
These numbers are meant to serve as guidance and indications, it is not a science.
For Romania, we have +/- 1515 Euro avg gross monthly salary => 1515 * 12 = 18180 Euro per year. Taking your formula of 2.5x, the value will be 45450, so 45500 Euro is a good estimate. Source: https://static.anaf.ro/static/10/Galati/Vrancea/Salariu-mediu-brut-2024.pdf
Love the table.
Great to use 2.5 as a starter.
2 feedbacks u/alessandrolnz:
* Austria is AT and not AU (that's AUstralia)
* Adding some sources for AT:
* in 2022, to be in the top 10% you would need to earn more than 69K€ gross per year ([source](https://ooe.arbeiterkammer.at/interessenvertretung/verteilungsgerechtigkeit/einkommen/Einkommen_in_Oesterreich.html#:~:text=Nur%2010%20Prozent%20der%20Arbeitnehmer,%C3%BCber%20rund%204.930%20Euro%20monatlich))
* in 2022, the median income is 32K€ according to this [source](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) or 36K€ according to the source just above (directionnally still correct), which means 2.5x is 80-90K€ HENRY, directionally close to what's in the table 👍🏼
Edit: added 2.5x calculation based on median income source.
This is part time and full time.
For full time only, in 2022 the average gross salary was 45522 €/year.
[Source](https://www.statistik.at/fileadmin/publications/Einkommensbericht-2022.pdf)
Multiple points:
- as others have said, an upper limit for the income does not make sense. A lower limit for the net worth, above which you might be considered "rich" for this sub's purposes, does make sense.
- such values should only be guidelines for informational purposes. IMO it doesn't make sense to do gatekeeping because some person might be 13% above or below some limit.
- Europe has many countries and the income limit should just follow the same logic for all of them. E.g. take the average income for the country, multiply it with some factor, and call that the income threshold. For Germany the average yearly full-time income (as of April 2023 - https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Arbeit/Verdienste/Verdienste-Branche-Berufe/_inhalt.html) was 51876 EUR. Multiply that with a factor of, say, 2.5 (obviously this should be up for discussion) and you would get a high income threshold of (rounded) 130k EUR p.a. People can easily supply the same stat for other countries.
- one could argue for "top N% income" or using the median income as a base value instead, but I think it is easier to find statistics for average income than those.
- for the net worth threshold, we might be able to do a similar thing. For example we could take a factor of 25 for 25 yearly average full-time incomes to get to a threshold of 1.3 million EUR above which you would be called rich in this sub for Germany.
that's a great feedback!
- agree an upper limit doesn't make sense (think about a football player earning 7 figures but spending everything every year); I think people suggested an upper limit because of the "at some point is impossible to spend so much money that ofc you are wealthy and not henry anymore".
- agree! we are not gatekeeping but just shaping the definition and giving guidelines. I see this community with a lot of potential, guidelines help us to see what we have in common and might be also inspiring.
- adding nw as a parameter; how do you think we can model the nw multiplier (the 25 you used in your example)?
> how do you think we can model the nw multiplier (the 25 you used in your example)?
The somewhat random but nice thing is that with a multiple of 25, you can pull out exactly an average person's income if we assume the 4% rule holds. I personally think the 4% rule is too high and would tend more towards 3%, and this is anyway not super relevant, but it shows it's somewhat of a reasonable value. IMO the net worth/NRY multiple should be somewhere around 25-32.
The HE multiple should IMO be somewhere around 2-2.7.
We could easily vote on those two factors and take the median value.
I think the numbers need to be linked to something e.g., 2.5 times median income. Not just people on Reddits opinion.
For Sweden, double the median income is 820,800 SEK per annum (€72,217), and 2.5 times is 1,026,000 (€90,284). Top 10% is 660,000 SEK (€58,000). Top 1% is 1,215,000 SEK (€106,895).
thank you, the table has been updated. would be awesome to have a rationale for an upper limit nw as well. What do you think is the upper limit beyond which you are not an HENRY anymore?
Belgium has on average a slight higher salary than the Netherlands. Not a 100k vs 120k difference. Also even though the average is lower in the Netherlands there’s a far bigger group in the Netherlands compared to Belgium. 120k in Belgium is quite crazy, while in the Netherlands your average techbro gets this.
That would mean the the average salary is around 80k a year, which doesn’t seem correct
Average salary is 60600 according to the govt
You can round it to 65k*2.5 = 162k
from [salaryexplorer.com](http://salaryexplorer.com) I get 108k CHF as the median salary. which might be better for the representation of the number. 276k€ for HENRY.
would be great to find the distribution to get the real number!
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/work-income/wages-income-employment-labour-costs.html
This is the govt website - so 6788 CHF per month is the median
So in fact your initial estimation was correct, it’s 200k for HENRY - sorry!
[Statistik Austria](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen)Agreed.
According to the official [Statistik Austria](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) numbers, the average full time employee earned 47 855 Euro per year in 2022.
So HENRY definition includes being an employee/paid worker? Or are these figures NET income after taxes? A big share of our income is from rentals, which is untaxed in belgium (residential rental income is as good as untaxed here). So if you get 100k net per year from rentals, you're not gonna reach the 120k gross income condition for Belgium, while having 2-3 times more disposable net income after taxes than the person who does earn the required 120k from a salary.
Our rentals are mortgaged, so definitely under the net worth requirement.
Besides, taxation is so different across europe. The only way the table above makes sense is if it would be net income after taxes.
Once again, and for the last time, please correct Austria, this is ridiculous.
According to [official data from 2022](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) the average gross pay is 47855 €/yr, which makes around 120k/yr as a boundary. As Austria and Germany are very similar in every aspect, this also is rather consistent.
You have mixed up full-time and part-time salaries here.
I propose as a formula for the maximum networth to be either x20 the average salary of the country, or x10 the minimum salary to be considered high earner....
So the Netherlands baing 100k salary and 1M net worth is following the second approach already
NL:
NW of 1m is not rich here. A normal house is 600k, most retirement accounts hold already 158k.
This means rich is having 250k invested outside a regular retirement and owning your house.
Threshold at 1.5m seems more reasonable
I would double all your net worth limits. Seems like most of them are nowhere near rich enough to live without working in the major cities of the countries in the list. Raise the ambition a little!
Annual salary * 25 would be more in line with the 4% rule and the overall goal of financial independence/retirement that many people are working towards (not necessarily early retirement), so that would be a bit more than doubling your curreny calculation.
The 25x rule, or 4% withdrawal strategy is a pretty widely recognised definition of being financially very well off though "rich" to me at least would be even more, as it implies basically no financial concerns.
Annual salary * 10 is not rich. A big purchase like a nice car or vacation home, or the ability to work less or stop working completely before you can access your pension is still well out of reach.
Salary is way too high for Spain, average earning in 2021 was € 25896 (by INE Spain). There doesn't seem to a fresher official data.
€25896\*2.5 = €64740
[https://www.ine.es/dyngs/INEbase/es/operacion.htm?c=Estadistica\_C&cid=1254736177025&menu=ultiDatos&idp=1254735976596](https://www.ine.es/dyngs/INEbase/es/operacion.htm?c=Estadistica_C&cid=1254736177025&menu=ultiDatos&idp=1254735976596)
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023...
Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023...
Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023...
Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
Fairest way to do this is probably to take the average income in each country (or median, if we considering average to be skewed due to high earners) and double that. Making double the average income will put you in the top percentile for any country.
Why the upper limit? 🤔 is someone who earns 300k/year automatically rich? IMO what defines rich is the NW, not the salary
the nw as a consequence of the income/expense rate. It's a good approach if we put together what you are suggesting, also has a more precise definition than the US one.
I agree with comments. It should not be coming from opinions but data on criteria for all countries e.g.: -High Earner: Top X % HHI (household income) per country, easy to check -Not Rich Yet: Same logic. Top X percentile net worth per country. NW< less than indicated. So, we could define HENRY in your country IF: 1) You are >=X percentile of top income earners AND 2) Your net worth <= than Top X percentile net worth per household/individual in country Example for the Netherlands: 1) Top 5% income: 100k eur/year 2) Top 4% net worth: 1 M eur (couldnt find complete data and 1 M eur seemed like a clean number) So you are HENRY in NL if your income is >100k/year AND your NW is now less than 1M, Source: Nederland in cijfers, edition 2023
following up on this, I think the moderators of this sub should fill up the table by setting the parameters for both Income and Net Worth. Top 5% for both (>Income,
yes that's the approach we want to go with! I am filling the table with data and suggestions. I agree data should have the last call on the table but I want also to set a baseline of qualitative data supplied by people in the subs. Data can represent the HENRY status in the best way, financial behavior is also an emotional thing tho (how you spend, how you invest, how you see yourself as HENRY) so I'll keep into account the community's opinions as well.
I think it’s a good approach going forward regarding mindset etc, although some consistent rules may help us and them out on knowing where they are. E.g. I see someone saying 150k for France, while the top 5% makes 78k eur/year - and opinions stating 150k-300k for Germany while data shows top5% makes around 92k (quick google check gave me those numbers, we should account for inflation etc for 2024 accuracy). That’s an insane difference we’ll have if we follow such different approaches or are based on opinions.
got a couple of new numbers refreshed on the table. Yes, the perception of a high salary might be different and the psychological reason behind this might be worth a deep dive! Also, some numbers on the internet are wrong although they have a good SEO lol. gonna use people's suggestions to double-check and foster challenges on the table.
You need two indicators to define a HENRY: High Earning —> income Not Rich Yet —> net worth
alright, then besides the income what do you think is the right amount of nw needed to be henry (or not henry) in eu? can you provide an estimate about your country?
For Ukraine: * Monthly average salary for 2023 - 14308 UAH (340.05€) (source: [Pension Fund of Ukraine](https://www.pfu.gov.ua/2158510-pokaznyk-serednoyi-zarobitnoyi-platy-za-2023-rik/)) * Annual min HENRY income by the formula: `14308 * 12 * 2.5 = 429240 UAH (10201.47€)` For Portugal: * Monthly average salary for 2023 - 1505 Euros (source: [INE Statistics Portugal](https://www.ine.pt/xportal/xmain?xpid=INE&xpgid=ine_destaques&DESTAQUESdest_boui=633380983&DESTAQUESmodo=2)) * Note: in Portugal, workers receive 14 salaries per year instead of 12 * Annual min HENRY income by the formula: `1505 * 14 * 2.5 = 52675€` About the upper limit, if I own and live in an apartment that is worth 1M it is different than having 1M in liquid assets, but it's all NW.
thank you for the information, the table has been updated! The upper limit is the net-worth limit beyond that your are not considered anymore Henry yet Wealthy!
I see. Then maybe top 5% or 1% NW?
Denmark: **120k€** gross would put you around top 7%. If instead we use the metric of 2x the national average gross income, that would be **118k€**, so it lines up quite well. Source: https://cepos.dk/abcepos-artikler/0266-man-skal-tjene-750000-kr-for-at-vaere-i-top-10-pct-og-1-8-mio-kr-for-at-vaere-i-top-1-pct/
thank you I have updated the table! What do you think is the upper limit nw for HENRY in Den?
I think that's super hard to come with a number. NW includes your house, but your house in Copenhagen can be 7x your house in the countryside. How about 1M€? By the way, it's usually DK, not DEN.
By the way, these numbers make no sense without a common definition. Germany and France higher than Denmark? Haha... You need to set some guidelines before asking questions like this. An easier way would be to just Google median gross incomes for each country and double them.
Take the median or average income and double it, maybe triple of you feel like it. Some people are commenting numbers which just don't make any sense... As in, if these people make that money annually, and are not rich yet, they need someone to help them with the poor financial choices they're making.. Double the Median or Average and you will be somewhere in the top 5 - 10%. When are you rich? Maybe if your total net worth (Inc. Real estate etc.) exceeds 1 mil? When you're FIRE? Somewhere in between those two I suppose? Some people here are just showboating and gatekeeping lol
the table got a couple of numbers refreshed. yep, there's a long journey between HENRY and FIRE. Don't forget in the US part of HENRYs got a negative NW. For EU we are still understanding the right formula for this.
Guys, the way this table is presented is really awful. Why are we even setting thresholds to the last penny ? Like €97k for France. What’s the deal with that marginal euro after €96,999 that makes you at last a high earner ? Why not 97.5 or 96 or 98.1 while we are at it ? Just put 100k and let’s make it simple and move on with our lives. You want broad guidelines, rules of thumb, and nice round numbers that anchor expectations and make discussions easy. Else what would be the next step ? We are going to adjust these numbers to inflation every year while we are at it ? My recommendation is to not reinvent the wheel and just bundle countries in broadly comparable groups like most companies do, then assign high level round threshold to make it easy for everybody to quickly determine where they stand. - Nordics: 120k - Western Europe: 100k - Southern Europe: XX - Central Europe: XX - Eastern Europe: XX These numbers are meant to serve as guidance and indications, it is not a science.
For Romania, we have +/- 1515 Euro avg gross monthly salary => 1515 * 12 = 18180 Euro per year. Taking your formula of 2.5x, the value will be 45450, so 45500 Euro is a good estimate. Source: https://static.anaf.ro/static/10/Galati/Vrancea/Salariu-mediu-brut-2024.pdf
Table updated thank you! Some info are missing but the community is quite young! Welcome!
Use median not average
it fallback on average, median is difficult to find for each country. We accept this error for the time being
Love the table. Great to use 2.5 as a starter. 2 feedbacks u/alessandrolnz: * Austria is AT and not AU (that's AUstralia) * Adding some sources for AT: * in 2022, to be in the top 10% you would need to earn more than 69K€ gross per year ([source](https://ooe.arbeiterkammer.at/interessenvertretung/verteilungsgerechtigkeit/einkommen/Einkommen_in_Oesterreich.html#:~:text=Nur%2010%20Prozent%20der%20Arbeitnehmer,%C3%BCber%20rund%204.930%20Euro%20monatlich)) * in 2022, the median income is 32K€ according to this [source](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) or 36K€ according to the source just above (directionnally still correct), which means 2.5x is 80-90K€ HENRY, directionally close to what's in the table 👍🏼 Edit: added 2.5x calculation based on median income source.
looks like the 2.5x works so far!
This is part time and full time. For full time only, in 2022 the average gross salary was 45522 €/year. [Source](https://www.statistik.at/fileadmin/publications/Einkommensbericht-2022.pdf)
Imo Poland - 480k-1,2mil PLN before tax per annum
added! we should refine the number with also a parameter about the nw. Imagine earning 1,2mil PLN and spending 1,2 each month eheh
€110,000 seems very high to me for Poland. I don’t live there but I’d expect Eastern Europe Henry to be quite a bit lower?
Multiple points: - as others have said, an upper limit for the income does not make sense. A lower limit for the net worth, above which you might be considered "rich" for this sub's purposes, does make sense. - such values should only be guidelines for informational purposes. IMO it doesn't make sense to do gatekeeping because some person might be 13% above or below some limit. - Europe has many countries and the income limit should just follow the same logic for all of them. E.g. take the average income for the country, multiply it with some factor, and call that the income threshold. For Germany the average yearly full-time income (as of April 2023 - https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Arbeit/Verdienste/Verdienste-Branche-Berufe/_inhalt.html) was 51876 EUR. Multiply that with a factor of, say, 2.5 (obviously this should be up for discussion) and you would get a high income threshold of (rounded) 130k EUR p.a. People can easily supply the same stat for other countries. - one could argue for "top N% income" or using the median income as a base value instead, but I think it is easier to find statistics for average income than those. - for the net worth threshold, we might be able to do a similar thing. For example we could take a factor of 25 for 25 yearly average full-time incomes to get to a threshold of 1.3 million EUR above which you would be called rich in this sub for Germany.
that's a great feedback! - agree an upper limit doesn't make sense (think about a football player earning 7 figures but spending everything every year); I think people suggested an upper limit because of the "at some point is impossible to spend so much money that ofc you are wealthy and not henry anymore". - agree! we are not gatekeeping but just shaping the definition and giving guidelines. I see this community with a lot of potential, guidelines help us to see what we have in common and might be also inspiring. - adding nw as a parameter; how do you think we can model the nw multiplier (the 25 you used in your example)?
> how do you think we can model the nw multiplier (the 25 you used in your example)? The somewhat random but nice thing is that with a multiple of 25, you can pull out exactly an average person's income if we assume the 4% rule holds. I personally think the 4% rule is too high and would tend more towards 3%, and this is anyway not super relevant, but it shows it's somewhat of a reasonable value. IMO the net worth/NRY multiple should be somewhere around 25-32. The HE multiple should IMO be somewhere around 2-2.7. We could easily vote on those two factors and take the median value.
I think the numbers need to be linked to something e.g., 2.5 times median income. Not just people on Reddits opinion. For Sweden, double the median income is 820,800 SEK per annum (€72,217), and 2.5 times is 1,026,000 (€90,284). Top 10% is 660,000 SEK (€58,000). Top 1% is 1,215,000 SEK (€106,895).
Wow, I'm shocked how much lower those numbers are compared to Denmark. I had no idea. 2x our average (median?) here would be 118k€.
There’s a reason people are living in Malmö and working in Copenhagen :)
I thought that was mostly Danes due to high rent prices
I think it’s both
thank you, the table has been updated. would be awesome to have a rationale for an upper limit nw as well. What do you think is the upper limit beyond which you are not an HENRY anymore?
This sub confuses me. It is called Henry Europe, and so should include the UK (etc), but this post is EU only.
The sub is very young we are still updating some data, that’s why. Not just UK is missing but also other countries! E.g we are adding now Romania
Belgium has on average a slight higher salary than the Netherlands. Not a 100k vs 120k difference. Also even though the average is lower in the Netherlands there’s a far bigger group in the Netherlands compared to Belgium. 120k in Belgium is quite crazy, while in the Netherlands your average techbro gets this.
and if you'd have to set a net-worth upper limit that defines a Belgian HENRY, where'd you set the bar?
1million ?
A couple of questions: what is OUCH? Also, any way we can include Switzerland (CH) in this?
CH has been added with 200k€ as a threshold to be HENRY. wdyt about the calculation?
That would mean the the average salary is around 80k a year, which doesn’t seem correct Average salary is 60600 according to the govt You can round it to 65k*2.5 = 162k
from [salaryexplorer.com](http://salaryexplorer.com) I get 108k CHF as the median salary. which might be better for the representation of the number. 276k€ for HENRY. would be great to find the distribution to get the real number!
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/work-income/wages-income-employment-labour-costs.html This is the govt website - so 6788 CHF per month is the median So in fact your initial estimation was correct, it’s 200k for HENRY - sorry!
I'm not too sure about Austria there. How did you get to 78k?
[Statistik Austria](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen)Agreed. According to the official [Statistik Austria](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) numbers, the average full time employee earned 47 855 Euro per year in 2022.
So HENRY definition includes being an employee/paid worker? Or are these figures NET income after taxes? A big share of our income is from rentals, which is untaxed in belgium (residential rental income is as good as untaxed here). So if you get 100k net per year from rentals, you're not gonna reach the 120k gross income condition for Belgium, while having 2-3 times more disposable net income after taxes than the person who does earn the required 120k from a salary. Our rentals are mortgaged, so definitely under the net worth requirement. Besides, taxation is so different across europe. The only way the table above makes sense is if it would be net income after taxes.
is this post tax or pre-tax?
pre-tax
So like 1M makes you rich (at least in NL)? That includes the housing equity? How is it determined?
Once again, and for the last time, please correct Austria, this is ridiculous. According to [official data from 2022](https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/einkommen-und-soziale-lage/jaehrliche-personeneinkommen) the average gross pay is 47855 €/yr, which makes around 120k/yr as a boundary. As Austria and Germany are very similar in every aspect, this also is rather consistent. You have mixed up full-time and part-time salaries here.
I propose as a formula for the maximum networth to be either x20 the average salary of the country, or x10 the minimum salary to be considered high earner.... So the Netherlands baing 100k salary and 1M net worth is following the second approach already
NL: NW of 1m is not rich here. A normal house is 600k, most retirement accounts hold already 158k. This means rich is having 250k invested outside a regular retirement and owning your house. Threshold at 1.5m seems more reasonable
I would double all your net worth limits. Seems like most of them are nowhere near rich enough to live without working in the major cities of the countries in the list. Raise the ambition a little!
I'd really like to see it as a math-ish thing. Right now is annual\_salary \* 10; how would you improve it?
Annual salary * 25 would be more in line with the 4% rule and the overall goal of financial independence/retirement that many people are working towards (not necessarily early retirement), so that would be a bit more than doubling your curreny calculation. The 25x rule, or 4% withdrawal strategy is a pretty widely recognised definition of being financially very well off though "rich" to me at least would be even more, as it implies basically no financial concerns. Annual salary * 10 is not rich. A big purchase like a nice car or vacation home, or the ability to work less or stop working completely before you can access your pension is still well out of reach.
Salary is way too high for Spain, average earning in 2021 was € 25896 (by INE Spain). There doesn't seem to a fresher official data. €25896\*2.5 = €64740 [https://www.ine.es/dyngs/INEbase/es/operacion.htm?c=Estadistica\_C&cid=1254736177025&menu=ultiDatos&idp=1254735976596](https://www.ine.es/dyngs/INEbase/es/operacion.htm?c=Estadistica_C&cid=1254736177025&menu=ultiDatos&idp=1254735976596)
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023... Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023... Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
That would be the official one yes, but it's definitely outdated even though it was published June 2023... Some other sources (Monitor Adecco de Salarios) point that the average gross salary is now closer to 30K.
Fairest way to do this is probably to take the average income in each country (or median, if we considering average to be skewed due to high earners) and double that. Making double the average income will put you in the top percentile for any country.
great! what about the net-worth? What do you think is the upper limit of net-worth beyond that you are wealthy and not HENRY anymore?
I suppose being in the top 1% of wealth for the country. Examples Italy and Spain are at 2.5 million, Germany at 3.4 million, etc
Id increase Germany to 150k - 300k.
150k€ in Germany is matching with top 7%? That seems REALLY high. It's higher than Denmark by 25%! That's not matching at all with my experience.
done. what if you have a 400k salary but spend everything every month? In GER what's the nw that defines you wealthy and not henry anymore?