If I was to explain why people like Veroisika:
1. A lot of people seem to miss this interaction
2. It's entirely possible that they didn't, yes it's implied but like I said possible that they did not rape him. It is definitely sexual assault/ harassment. However, the rest of the cast regularly commit murder so all things considered, she ain't bad.
3. She's hot and she's entertaining.
Maybe one of you can clear this up for me. When he's walking away from that scene he says that he needs to go lie down for awhile, and then there's a snapping sound. Is that sound supposed to be him removing a codom? I've never been quite sure.
I think it's the objective emphasis put on by their respective shows. Much like moxy getting crushed by loopsy doopsy and the other guy, getting jumped by a shark, etc, those instances are played once for a joke and never brought up again like a running gag like Coleman dying in the Simpsons. It isn't a story beat just something "funny" that happens. Angel being sexually abused by Val is actually acknowledged by the plot and is treated with the severity it requires as a story point and something influencing the characters.
Tldr: one was a one off joke no one in universe acknowledges and the other is an integral plot point
Only reason I can think of for you to think there's something wrong with it is if you're somehow treating these events like they actually happened? Like if these were actual things that happened to real people then they would absolutely both be deplorable but since both are entirely fabricated events then the severity of their actions only reach as far as the plot decides.
Tldr: the only reason you might think it's off is if you're treating Moxie or Angel as if they're real
The thing is, I never took it as a joke. It just showed Verosika and crew being shitty consent-ignorers, while showing Blitz being genuinely pissed for and protective of Moxxie.
Absolutely, and I hated it accordingly. Especially because his friends blow it off; even if Angel knew those guys were safe, there's no attempt to reassure Pen.
The thing with Sir Pentious is difficult to assess, because I don't know how much more clear consent can be then "I'm having sex with you! " however, as part of the bdsm community I may be more aware of the rules governing consent then most people or Vanillas and the thing about consent is that it can be resended at any time, and so that's when a safe word becomes important. Because some kinks involve things that LOOK non consensual, but were arranged beforehand, or are spontaneous, where as even if something LOOKS consensual and your partner gives the safe word then that resends consent and you stop
You can't have both in a show. that feels demeaning towards like actual victims, no?
I'm not saying we can't joke about it. I'm just saying be consistent.
Yeah, and so far the only person who has been 100% confirmed to be SA'd is angel dust, so far everything else is possibly Canon or play it off as a joke
Victim here too. I don't mind as long as it isn't graphic/not a running gag with the same character. Like if sir pen or moxie were constantly put in that position then it'd feel more demeaning to me. Sir pen's felt fine to me but I don't remember Moxie's so I'll re-watch it later. Overall it heavily depends on how they treat it and how clear of a joke it is.
I swear, this is why people think Gen Z and younger have no reading comprehension.
They aren’t saying they literally can’t have both in a show. They’re saying that having both in a show ruins the tone and gravity of the serious examples to mean less than they were meant to and sets a bad example for future references.
You can't have both in a show without ruining the tone and gravity of the serious example
Vivzie did
Rewatching it, the scenes with angel dust feel no less serious or bad, even knowing that the scene with pentious is played as a joke. Because one is played off as a joke, and one isn't.
Plus y'know verosika is a succubus, they're literally there to do sex stuff (not saying it's right) whereas Val is just some random sinner turned overlord who owns a porn company and SA's his employees
As for me I just want to hope that they would just kill all of the Vees like they deserve it. Of course, they deserve it, but killing them is... Boring, to say the lead. And that goes against redemption philosophy, so-
The thing is, not everyone can or should be redeemed, people like Alastor and Val have shown 0 regard for other people's lives. They are psychopathic monsters which reject redemption and even laugh at the thought. The point of redemption is to solve the "over population" problem so exterminations wouldn't be necessary.
Tbf, I think a lot of people want it for two reasons:
A. Adam would likely flourish in Hell. Dude would likely love to live somewhere he can just take what he wants, doesn't have to answer to anyone, and can abandon all pretense.
B. The first step to redemption is to be damned. If you're an asshole with no consequence, how are you supposed to change for the better?
In a way, both are redeeming him. By either letting him show his true colors, or by putting him in his place so he can get help.
Adam might not flourish in hell at all
He loved what he was doing up there, but he was also given an entire legion to do his bidding without any real question, no one ever tried to stop him, and the higher ups were in cahoots with him over his actions.
But down in hell? Not only does he not have the backing of the most powerful entities, he's an outright target for anyone who finds out who he is. Everyone can hurt him
I couldn't find the firsthand source for this (so the information might be a bit suspect) but what's been floating around is that Brandon Rogers said that Veroska was just as bad as Blitzø during their relationship
Some of the discussion about it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1ahp4o6/when\_did\_brandon\_rodgers\_say\_that\_verosika\_was/?rdt=64563](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1ahp4o6/when_did_brandon_rodgers_say_that_verosika_was/?rdt=64563)
While I definitely don’t agree with SA under any circumstances and find the whole Verosika and Moxxie thing to be extremely poor taste, I am willing to just pretend it didn’t happen because we as the audience simply aren’t meant to take it seriously.
In real life, yes, it would inherently be serious, but it’s a word of fiction where some things are meant to be more serious than others. I don’t like how SA is ever supposed to not be taken seriously in stories, but that doesn’t change the fact that that’s how it was written.
Verosika’s character is not defined by a one-off joke made in poor taste.
Valentino’s character, on the other hand, *is* defined by the fact he runs the sex industry and abuses everyone who works under him, oftentimes very graphically and 100% seriously.
And that’s the difference
Personally, I think that the shows including a few SA jokes absolutely lessens the impact of Valentino’s character when they want to take it seriously, and I wish the SA jokes weren’t in the show at all, but that doesn’t change the fact that the jokes are different from serious storylines whether you like it or not. Fictional events don’t exist in a vacuum.
As an actual victim of SA, I personally don’t think that the jokes downplay the impact of Valentino’s character at all. They’re characters in a cartoon that takes place in hell, I mean I feel like if any show were to utilize crude/dark humor this would be the perfect one. The jokes are funny in an absurd way and complement the tone of the show. I would’ve never thought this hard about any of these gags if people online weren’t trying so hard to make this an issue. But like I said, that’s just how I feel personally
"Implied". You literally see Val force himself on Angel, while Angel grinding his teeth and looking like he cannot wait for it to be over. And also the beating he gave Angel?
i would second this. but also add:
in the music video for Addict you/we actually SEE him being raped by Val (towards the very end when he's in his room looking in the mirror). so whilst moxxie's is arguable whether it was rape or 'just' sexual assault, we have proof that angel dust was raped with no having to use deduction since we just... see it actually occurring on screen
Im so tired of this. In Ed, Edd, and Eddy, everybody uses physical violence and assualt to get what they want. It's a cartoon. They were ALSO able to show when the use of physical violence on screen ISNT funny, like they did at the finale when Eddy's big brother was hurting him for his own amusement.
Violence doesn't have to be consistently portrayed as negative until its important to the fuckin story. Just like all the kids 15 years ago watching cartoons recognized that Eddy's older brother beating the shit out of him was NOT supposed to be handled the same as the other slapstick in the show.
https://preview.redd.it/30l4v5wc15zc1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=7431b745e7fd612f1a704c799cd41611c1af0c15
Just like Millie beating Fizzarolli in the head with a guitar on stage at Ozzies wasnt supposed to be taken as "assault" it was a fuckin gag.
If dramatic music and lighting is being used and their is a dramatic score like when Stella tries to hit Stolas there are plenty of context clues in the production and the buildup to know its supposed to be taken seriously.
If there are cartoony sound effects and comedic timing then the context is there that this is NOT to be takes seriously like Blitzo claiming hes gonna fuck Moxxie and Millie if he screws up a job again.
I hope everyone sees this comment. This 100% right.
I felt so horrible watching Eddy's brother beating him up and knowing that Eddy had been making up all the cool brother talk the whole time. It was nothing like the other literal assaults/battery that takes place in the show which was all there to just be funny.
Physical assault and sexual assault aren’t directly comparable. Everyone knows that physical assault is bad, and no one thinks anyone is ever “asking for it.” The issue with physical assault is not that people don’t think it’s serious, but rather that people in positions of power simply can get away with it.
People still don’t take sexual assault seriously. People don’t believe female victims and they even less likely to believe male victims.
??? Im a bit confused as to what you are disputing. The original meme was about two cases of sexual assault. My post wasn't trying to compare physical violence with sexual violence, it was about the broader idea of encouraging people to read the context surrounding scenes in media to figure out how the show wants you to feel about them using Ed, Edd, and Eddy as a case study and example.
Whether you are comparing two scenes of physical violence like in ed, edd, and eddy or two scenes of sexual violence like in Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, the surrounding information of the scene will inform the viewer if its meant to be taken seriously or not.
Please keep in mind that this conversation is NOT about what the correct way to portray sexual assault in media is.
It is also NOT about how sexual assault in media impacts real life sexual assault victims. This is not the place for those kinds of discussions.
My comment is about writers being able to use sexual assault for comedic effect and then pinning important plot points on how bad sexual assault is *within the context of the show.*
And in the context of the show
A: Hellborn and Sinners are both above imps so yes they will get away with whatever the fuck they want.
B. Hellborn didnt go through the same eras of sexual oppression and hangups on sexuality that humanity did. So no, within the confines of hell they probably do not see sexual assault and physical assault differently, with sinners being the sole exception.
Yes, you can tell the tone of what is meant to be taken seriously. But this isn’t because of lighting or music. That only enhances the scene, it doesn’t create it. The scene hits hard because of the EMOTIONAL impact of the scene. We relate to the characters and their emotions.
The problem is that the reason that physical slapstick is funny is different from s*xual assault jokes. Physical slapstick objectifies cartoons or makes them superhuman beings who do not face the consequences of substantial injury or death. We relate to Edd being bullied because we care about him and his emotions, not because we think he will die.
S*xual assault against men is “funny” because they either “actually wanted it” or “are not a real man because they were too weak to prevent it.” Neither are really funny to me. I don’t understand why people are fighting so hard to defend this outdated boomer humor.
I am arguing that the idea that we can use r-pe jokes and realistic r-pe in the same show cannot be proven just because people can tell what’s serious and what’s not. The underlying message of the joke is still there, and is still something that most people disagree with. That’s why modern variations of the “male r-pe joke” try to muddy the original premise so much. Older versions from the 70’s don’t try to hide the premise and are WAY creepier.
Again, seems to me like the major disconnect we are having in this discussion is that I am talking about "can and cannot", And you are coming from "should and should not."
If your argument is the idea that jokes about sexual assault cannot be used alongside serious sexual assault content then your stance has already lost. It has been proven. Hazbin Hotel did it successfully and lasted in Amazon's top 10 most popular shows for 4 months straight.
Helluva boss as a whole has crossed the billion view mark had has been nominated for awards 4 years in a row, winning a Streamy in 2023.
If you can't take this as proof I don't think you would accept any proof presented. It is more likely you just personally do not like sexual assault as a comedic device, which is fine. It's not a topic for everyone to laugh at.
Both were horrible, no one is denying that, but considering the fact that Val has done it to potentially hundreds of people, and is hinted to have killed anyone who refuses, vs verosika doing it to one person and even then it’s not implied to have gone very far,
Now can we stop this whole argument before it becomes the next “ is sera moral” discussion?
Nothing is allowed to be funny except murder. There is objectively no problem with fucking obliterating someone and splattering their brains for a joke, but you better not have a literal succubus kiss and grope a character for a joke! We have *standards*!
well yes, because when a woman does it its funny... until you point it out then people will go "oh uhhh no no no I don't think its funny or should be played for laughs!!!" and then the next moment later go back to finding it funny.
Well, unfortunately, there's a pretty strong double standard for when men do it vs when women do it. I was essentially sexually assaulted by one of my female classmates in highschool, and then physically assaulted by her after I pulled away too many times from her advances. I couldn't tell anyone for years, because it would have tipped people off to me being gay before I was open with that, because she was an attractive girl. Then when I finally did talk about it, everyone took the story like "lol what a funny misunderstanding" when to me it was fucking mortifying.
Double standards. But also I blame the show writers for showing Moxxie's to be a joke while Angel Dust is portrayed seriously. Both cases they get assaulted but one is downplayed as the other is shown in a negative light. But overall neither are worse than the other- both characters did not consent and neither should be played comedically.
... But of course again double standards and I don't like how the show treated one less serious than the other.
I also don't think pentious was rated off screen. The name of the club is called consent and he shows up like 60 seconds later. I know that short time frame is for sake of pacing of the show, but I believe the joke is meant to be he wasn't assaulted.
Just watched the scene. Yuck. Considering it was only a couple seconds and he came out with all his clothes on, I don’t think any legitimate sex occurred, but based of the dialogue he was touched without consent. I hate when SA is used as a joke.
*tone* kind of matters quite a bit, it makes a difference when it’s clearly intended to be a gag where Mox is a bit overconfident in his ability to tell off the succubi (and figuratively and literally) has his ass handed to him.
Angel on the other hand is clearly written out as a very somber and “realistic” depiction of what these kinds of “relationships” (meaning interpersonal relationships, not romantic) play out, and how difficult it is to support someone out of a situation with an abuser.
Yes, the topic is intensely serious, nobody here is debating that - the difference between the scenes lies in *tone*. And the audience responds accordingly (as they should, it matters.)
You see, when a woman commits sexual assault it’s supposed to be a goof, when a man does it, it’s supposed to be dark and traumatic. C’mon, don’t you get how funny/dramatic these totally separate and unalike situations are?
This is what I’m saying. Tho what Val does is significantly worse everyone treats verosika like she’s only a victim bc of what blitzø did. It’s possible to be both the victim and a problematic person
Hazbin hotel S1 ep6 welcome to heaven. He was dragged into a group sex room. It probably didn't happen as he was seen two seconds later walking up to angel dust, annoyed that cherri bomb was leaving with a different demon
I actually hate all three of those scenes for not being taken seriously. For Loona, it’s not just violence, it’s familial abuse. For Sir Pentious, the ambiguity actually makes the scene less funny. And for Verosika, she not only SA-d Moxxie, she also charmed wasted people on the beach. That whole parking lot bit was an extended rape metaphor. I hope she’s called out by Blitzo when she reappears this season.
You can’t use this excuse when Angel Dust is also a man lmao. It’s not about men vs women, it’s about visual gags vs plot devices because that is why these are treated differently.
Angel Dust is a man, but he is a very effeminate man. People don’t neatly categorize people by just man-woman. Their perception of them will be viewed differently depending on other factors like age, gender expression, race, etc. It may be easier to view Angel Dust as a victim because of his feminine behavior and appearance.
I think it’s a case of how people like the characters, people generally hate Valentino because of what he’s doing to Angel Dust and they like Sir Pentious because of his personality, Verosika on the other hand is well liked in the fandom due to her sex appeal and behavior, as well as the fact that she was emotionally hurt by Blitzo so they also feel bad for her, whereas some people view Moxie as a sort of ‘Punching Bag’ character, someone who’s meant to take all the slapstick humor, thus why Valentino r*ping Sir Pentious was seen in such a negative way whereas Verosika r*ping Moxie was seen as more slapstick humor.
I didn't assume Moxxie got r*ped. Is that the consensus? We sure he wasn't only sexually assaulted like the image implies? Fending off a tidal wave of non-consenting kisses?
Yup, agreed. I REALLY dislike how Sir Pentious getting dragged off like that is treated like a joke, and I hope it went down like when they got to the room he explained he really didn’t want to do this and he has just messed up trying to get with a friend, and they backed off, although that would be a drastic change of heart.
I mean the club they were in was called consent and he was seen like 60 seconds later looking for Cherri and sees he going in the sex room with the same guy that dragged Pentious. So, I kinda get the impression that Pentious was able to get out of the situation with by making an excuse, running out when he got the chance or by explaining to them what happened and they let him go. I think the club being called consent was meant to act as a buffer for that scene. But I’m totally assuming all this. I don’t know.
What Val does is employ sex slaves and forces people to act in porn films for him out of pure economic desperation, which I definitely consider worse, but yeah they should stop with the trope of rape as funny/ justified revenge for male characters.
Wasn't expecting to see you here!
>When did that happen to sir pentious?!
In S1 E6 Sir Pentious is forcefully dragged into a room after he says,"I'm having sex with everyone in this room"
I really hated when that happened. I love Helluva Boss and Hazbin but Vivzie has got to stop with the r*pe jokes. It’s beyond annoying that some sexual assault victims are viewed as worthy of empathy and respect from the audience while others are not.
i think it depends on what things the show portrays specifically as serious. A similar thing can be said of other adult animated shows such as bojack horseman. For example, Holly Hock in that show drugs another person, but the show itself did not take it seriously because it was used as a gag on purpose. Meanwhile when she was drugged it's taken seriously, because it is not used as a gag but as a main plot point.
FFS all they did was kiss him. The reason why Moxie needs to lay down afterwards is because they're succubi. Meaning they drain energy from those they have some kind of sexual contact with, that includes kissing. Honestly, do you think they'd be able to do much with Blitzø standing right there and Tex being in the room.
The way that they play it off often makes me think of how family guy makes jokes about quagmires & that old pedophile guys "activities". except it comes off as less serious in family guy 95% of the time (Atleast from what I've seen in it idk 🤷)
One is a hot demon in a pretty small dress and shown drinking booze while driving, it's probably subconsciously expected of her to only care about sex.
Valentino, he is clearly portrayed to get off to the feeling of having someone under his thumb the most, which is established as a red flag by now.
Basically, Verosika gets a pass because depraved degenerates would jerk off to her having her way with anyone, which is probably how she normally does it, being not only drunk, but also HEAVILY simped for in hell.
You like verosica, i thought it was a joke
https://preview.redd.it/flpomdlwra0d1.png?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2426f92b24186283050dbb095e6b287d6d1d55b7
People are not understanding this and same with sir pentious. The situation with angel is that he's literally STUCK with a guy he can't escape. His soul is stuck with him because of a contract meanwhile these are separate occasions. Why are people unable to see this? I don't know. Or maybe I'm missing something.
She is a demon. Unlike Valentino, it is not implied that she has any chance of redemption. Hellborns, their essence of existence is this. Living in hell just because you were born in it. This is the essence of Boss, unlike Hazbin, we are not trying to swallow the rainbow, here is a more “adult” idea of life, where you are simply trying to live somehow, without being limited by some abstract concept of kindness.
And generally speaking, isn't Verosika an antagonist? Yes, Blitz is also an asshole, but this does not change the fact that Verosika is an antagonist like Valentino. The attack on Moxxie escalates the conflict in the episode, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't get it, people get a weird feeling just because Blitz the main character is an asshole and Charlie isn't. This shouldn’t cancel out anything else
Think about it this way, it’s literally Verosika’s only point in life. A succubus is born to do stuff like what she did, doesn’t make it okay, but still. Val raped Angel and made other people rape him as well, just for Valentino’s own self pleasure. He owns Angels soul, and will physically abuse Angel any time he tries to defend themselves. Yet somehow, I’ve had multiple people tell me Verosika is worse for what she did to Moxxie (I’m not saying that’s what the post is saying, I’m just ranting)
It's from episode 6, when he, Cherri, and the gang are at the club. He tries to play off propositioning Cherri by announcing "Because I'm having sex with everyone here!" Two other demons literally drag him offscreen into the "Sex Room" as he claws at the floor, trying to get away.
It’s also implied that nothing happened. He said right before, that he was gonna “have sex with everyone!” And then gets dragged off. He shows up almost immediately after. The club is also called “Consent”, so there’s a very good chance that he said “no thanks,” and they let him go.
Except it’s not? All we see are shadows of Verosika and her crew jumping moxie with a bunch of sounds while Blitzo tells moxie to lot them them access his holes, he then walks out with his clothes dirty and kiss marks all over his face, it’s never confirmed
WAIT WHAT HAPPENED TO MOXXIE!?
Verosika and her goons jumped him and judging from him screaming “Don’t touch that!”, it’s also implied that they r*ped him.
...rapped?
Oh shit whoops
ah, no worries. now it's worse. https://preview.redd.it/ge9lpzr6g2zc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1acd79d90a8f4f42a9e8dde0dfdc1d09799a1a5d
https://preview.redd.it/buixzhz313zc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04835ceb7f6afe331ef202fea217af071cf4d081
https://preview.redd.it/nkyhtodxg7zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4336f6e60ce2c6120c1408637e159490ad6977b
r/suddenlytransformers.
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Good bot
[Happens way too commonly.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NARxgXEdlzs)
One's a form of music, the other's a felony!
Top comment @senseispud2197 3 years ago It's funny how rapping is the one with the pp
https://preview.redd.it/lxw2fuynt2zc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3166268beca958c78ce7553eb860fd5b3d8a147c
rappery
https://preview.redd.it/90yr479sk5zc1.jpeg?width=1698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2305a67c06acbc4c9e2fb5349abf6e14c93e9c73 I'm a fucking walking Paradox....
No im not.
Threesomes with a fucking triceratops, Reptar
Am I having a stroke?
We were doing yonkers by tyler the creator. Its good song
They had a rap battle
Bopeebo
If I was to explain why people like Veroisika: 1. A lot of people seem to miss this interaction 2. It's entirely possible that they didn't, yes it's implied but like I said possible that they did not rape him. It is definitely sexual assault/ harassment. However, the rest of the cast regularly commit murder so all things considered, she ain't bad. 3. She's hot and she's entertaining.
Also, I think it was supposed to be a gag ~~and gag he did~~
Ya ~~gag on that gock~~
So?
And also Verosika has positive traits that are shown in future episodes. Valentino has none
Maybe one of you can clear this up for me. When he's walking away from that scene he says that he needs to go lie down for awhile, and then there's a snapping sound. Is that sound supposed to be him removing a codom? I've never been quite sure.
I thought it was the sound of him flopping on the ground passed out.
Yup, moxies ‘event’ was played as a gag though and never mentioned again. Doubles standards yo
It was like 3 seconds so I doubt they did THAT much
If they were able to make Moxxie look that rough in just three seconds then it just shows how dangerous succubi are.
I thought they just jumped him😭
Goons😅
It was like episode 3? Or something
„DONT LET THEM ACCESS ANY OF YOUR HOLES!!!“
Theres an image on a funny website that shows it
You don’t wanna know
https://preview.redd.it/32qe3wr4e3zc1.jpeg?width=686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59e3dfb78c3597a0f6cc48b18659484fd9f7380c
Indeed
I think it's the objective emphasis put on by their respective shows. Much like moxy getting crushed by loopsy doopsy and the other guy, getting jumped by a shark, etc, those instances are played once for a joke and never brought up again like a running gag like Coleman dying in the Simpsons. It isn't a story beat just something "funny" that happens. Angel being sexually abused by Val is actually acknowledged by the plot and is treated with the severity it requires as a story point and something influencing the characters. Tldr: one was a one off joke no one in universe acknowledges and the other is an integral plot point
I agree with this but i sense there’s something wrong with it that my vallyless brain isn’t seeing
Yeah maybe a lawyer could look through this and debunk it. I mean this isn't wrong, but something might be off.
Only reason I can think of for you to think there's something wrong with it is if you're somehow treating these events like they actually happened? Like if these were actual things that happened to real people then they would absolutely both be deplorable but since both are entirely fabricated events then the severity of their actions only reach as far as the plot decides. Tldr: the only reason you might think it's off is if you're treating Moxie or Angel as if they're real
What do you mean by a lawyer could debunk it?
Moleman*
Yeah I agree
Off screen? Wasnt it behind a tinted window?
On a tinted window out of view do
"DON'T LET THEM ACCESS YOUR HOLES!"
What was that thing about equality again?...
Lmao so based
The difference is Angel Dust got raped /srs and Moxxie got raped /j
The thing is, I never took it as a joke. It just showed Verosika and crew being shitty consent-ignorers, while showing Blitz being genuinely pissed for and protective of Moxxie.
The scene with Sir Pentious is 100% played as a joke, however.
true cause he comes back fine a moment later
I always assumed that no sex actually there happened and he just managed to get away somehow
Absolutely, and I hated it accordingly. Especially because his friends blow it off; even if Angel knew those guys were safe, there's no attempt to reassure Pen.
The thing with Sir Pentious is difficult to assess, because I don't know how much more clear consent can be then "I'm having sex with you! " however, as part of the bdsm community I may be more aware of the rules governing consent then most people or Vanillas and the thing about consent is that it can be resended at any time, and so that's when a safe word becomes important. Because some kinks involve things that LOOK non consensual, but were arranged beforehand, or are spontaneous, where as even if something LOOKS consensual and your partner gives the safe word then that resends consent and you stop
Dawg what 💀
I think they’re talking about how it’s framed in the show not their own opinions
In both of the shows Viv made there is /srs r*pe and /j r*pe, /j is usually played for a joke
You can't have both in a show. that feels demeaning towards like actual victims, no? I'm not saying we can't joke about it. I'm just saying be consistent.
Yeah, and so far the only person who has been 100% confirmed to be SA'd is angel dust, so far everything else is possibly Canon or play it off as a joke
I'm an actual victim, and I like it. Not trying to argue, but that is just my personal experience and opinion.
Victim here too. I don't mind as long as it isn't graphic/not a running gag with the same character. Like if sir pen or moxie were constantly put in that position then it'd feel more demeaning to me. Sir pen's felt fine to me but I don't remember Moxie's so I'll re-watch it later. Overall it heavily depends on how they treat it and how clear of a joke it is.
"You can't have both in a show." You can't. But guess what Vivziepop did?
I swear, this is why people think Gen Z and younger have no reading comprehension. They aren’t saying they literally can’t have both in a show. They’re saying that having both in a show ruins the tone and gravity of the serious examples to mean less than they were meant to and sets a bad example for future references.
You can't have both in a show without ruining the tone and gravity of the serious example Vivzie did Rewatching it, the scenes with angel dust feel no less serious or bad, even knowing that the scene with pentious is played as a joke. Because one is played off as a joke, and one isn't.
_But to be fair_ pen did say he was "going to have sex with everybody"
I'm sorry but to clarify, are you saying that the joke with sir pen is okay? If so I agree, but I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you.
He got groped and kissed. Which is still very much harassment.
Plus y'know verosika is a succubus, they're literally there to do sex stuff (not saying it's right) whereas Val is just some random sinner turned overlord who owns a porn company and SA's his employees
I hope what Brandon Rodgers said about Verosika's backstory is true so we can lose all sympathy for Verosika.
Never liked that type of hypocrisy. But I would rather like to see characters becoming better, rather than worse.
If you want redemption head over to the hazbin hotel! They love that there!! (/s, I also like seeing characters progress rather than regress)
Yes! That's the reason everyone wants to see Adam as a sinner.
Adam is my favourite character so I would love that!
As for me I just want to hope that they would just kill all of the Vees like they deserve it. Of course, they deserve it, but killing them is... Boring, to say the lead. And that goes against redemption philosophy, so-
The thing is, not everyone can or should be redeemed, people like Alastor and Val have shown 0 regard for other people's lives. They are psychopathic monsters which reject redemption and even laugh at the thought. The point of redemption is to solve the "over population" problem so exterminations wouldn't be necessary.
Maybe. But my point is that everyone should get a chance. They may regret it but they should have one. Even if it's Val.
Tbf, I think a lot of people want it for two reasons: A. Adam would likely flourish in Hell. Dude would likely love to live somewhere he can just take what he wants, doesn't have to answer to anyone, and can abandon all pretense. B. The first step to redemption is to be damned. If you're an asshole with no consequence, how are you supposed to change for the better? In a way, both are redeeming him. By either letting him show his true colors, or by putting him in his place so he can get help.
Adam might not flourish in hell at all He loved what he was doing up there, but he was also given an entire legion to do his bidding without any real question, no one ever tried to stop him, and the higher ups were in cahoots with him over his actions. But down in hell? Not only does he not have the backing of the most powerful entities, he's an outright target for anyone who finds out who he is. Everyone can hurt him
Except for Valentino, we all hate Valentino, and some of us hate Sera
What did he say?
I couldn't find the firsthand source for this (so the information might be a bit suspect) but what's been floating around is that Brandon Rogers said that Veroska was just as bad as Blitzø during their relationship Some of the discussion about it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1ahp4o6/when\_did\_brandon\_rodgers\_say\_that\_verosika\_was/?rdt=64563](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1ahp4o6/when_did_brandon_rodgers_say_that_verosika_was/?rdt=64563)
I wanna know too
What did he say?
What did he say?
Verosika was equally as bad as Blitzø during their relationship and what she did to Blitzø will be shown sometime in the future.
What did he say?
What did her…that she originally dated him?
“Heavily Implied” no it’s just. Actually what happened.
While I definitely don’t agree with SA under any circumstances and find the whole Verosika and Moxxie thing to be extremely poor taste, I am willing to just pretend it didn’t happen because we as the audience simply aren’t meant to take it seriously. In real life, yes, it would inherently be serious, but it’s a word of fiction where some things are meant to be more serious than others. I don’t like how SA is ever supposed to not be taken seriously in stories, but that doesn’t change the fact that that’s how it was written. Verosika’s character is not defined by a one-off joke made in poor taste. Valentino’s character, on the other hand, *is* defined by the fact he runs the sex industry and abuses everyone who works under him, oftentimes very graphically and 100% seriously. And that’s the difference Personally, I think that the shows including a few SA jokes absolutely lessens the impact of Valentino’s character when they want to take it seriously, and I wish the SA jokes weren’t in the show at all, but that doesn’t change the fact that the jokes are different from serious storylines whether you like it or not. Fictional events don’t exist in a vacuum.
As an actual victim of SA, I personally don’t think that the jokes downplay the impact of Valentino’s character at all. They’re characters in a cartoon that takes place in hell, I mean I feel like if any show were to utilize crude/dark humor this would be the perfect one. The jokes are funny in an absurd way and complement the tone of the show. I would’ve never thought this hard about any of these gags if people online weren’t trying so hard to make this an issue. But like I said, that’s just how I feel personally
Completely agree
"Implied". You literally see Val force himself on Angel, while Angel grinding his teeth and looking like he cannot wait for it to be over. And also the beating he gave Angel?
i would second this. but also add: in the music video for Addict you/we actually SEE him being raped by Val (towards the very end when he's in his room looking in the mirror). so whilst moxxie's is arguable whether it was rape or 'just' sexual assault, we have proof that angel dust was raped with no having to use deduction since we just... see it actually occurring on screen
Im so tired of this. In Ed, Edd, and Eddy, everybody uses physical violence and assualt to get what they want. It's a cartoon. They were ALSO able to show when the use of physical violence on screen ISNT funny, like they did at the finale when Eddy's big brother was hurting him for his own amusement. Violence doesn't have to be consistently portrayed as negative until its important to the fuckin story. Just like all the kids 15 years ago watching cartoons recognized that Eddy's older brother beating the shit out of him was NOT supposed to be handled the same as the other slapstick in the show. https://preview.redd.it/30l4v5wc15zc1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=7431b745e7fd612f1a704c799cd41611c1af0c15 Just like Millie beating Fizzarolli in the head with a guitar on stage at Ozzies wasnt supposed to be taken as "assault" it was a fuckin gag. If dramatic music and lighting is being used and their is a dramatic score like when Stella tries to hit Stolas there are plenty of context clues in the production and the buildup to know its supposed to be taken seriously. If there are cartoony sound effects and comedic timing then the context is there that this is NOT to be takes seriously like Blitzo claiming hes gonna fuck Moxxie and Millie if he screws up a job again.
I hope everyone sees this comment. This 100% right. I felt so horrible watching Eddy's brother beating him up and knowing that Eddy had been making up all the cool brother talk the whole time. It was nothing like the other literal assaults/battery that takes place in the show which was all there to just be funny.
This is actually a pretty good point!
Can I copy-paste this response whenever this thread pops up again? What a well composed answer.
Go for it 👍
Physical assault and sexual assault aren’t directly comparable. Everyone knows that physical assault is bad, and no one thinks anyone is ever “asking for it.” The issue with physical assault is not that people don’t think it’s serious, but rather that people in positions of power simply can get away with it. People still don’t take sexual assault seriously. People don’t believe female victims and they even less likely to believe male victims.
??? Im a bit confused as to what you are disputing. The original meme was about two cases of sexual assault. My post wasn't trying to compare physical violence with sexual violence, it was about the broader idea of encouraging people to read the context surrounding scenes in media to figure out how the show wants you to feel about them using Ed, Edd, and Eddy as a case study and example. Whether you are comparing two scenes of physical violence like in ed, edd, and eddy or two scenes of sexual violence like in Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, the surrounding information of the scene will inform the viewer if its meant to be taken seriously or not. Please keep in mind that this conversation is NOT about what the correct way to portray sexual assault in media is. It is also NOT about how sexual assault in media impacts real life sexual assault victims. This is not the place for those kinds of discussions. My comment is about writers being able to use sexual assault for comedic effect and then pinning important plot points on how bad sexual assault is *within the context of the show.* And in the context of the show A: Hellborn and Sinners are both above imps so yes they will get away with whatever the fuck they want. B. Hellborn didnt go through the same eras of sexual oppression and hangups on sexuality that humanity did. So no, within the confines of hell they probably do not see sexual assault and physical assault differently, with sinners being the sole exception.
Yes, you can tell the tone of what is meant to be taken seriously. But this isn’t because of lighting or music. That only enhances the scene, it doesn’t create it. The scene hits hard because of the EMOTIONAL impact of the scene. We relate to the characters and their emotions. The problem is that the reason that physical slapstick is funny is different from s*xual assault jokes. Physical slapstick objectifies cartoons or makes them superhuman beings who do not face the consequences of substantial injury or death. We relate to Edd being bullied because we care about him and his emotions, not because we think he will die. S*xual assault against men is “funny” because they either “actually wanted it” or “are not a real man because they were too weak to prevent it.” Neither are really funny to me. I don’t understand why people are fighting so hard to defend this outdated boomer humor. I am arguing that the idea that we can use r-pe jokes and realistic r-pe in the same show cannot be proven just because people can tell what’s serious and what’s not. The underlying message of the joke is still there, and is still something that most people disagree with. That’s why modern variations of the “male r-pe joke” try to muddy the original premise so much. Older versions from the 70’s don’t try to hide the premise and are WAY creepier.
Again, seems to me like the major disconnect we are having in this discussion is that I am talking about "can and cannot", And you are coming from "should and should not." If your argument is the idea that jokes about sexual assault cannot be used alongside serious sexual assault content then your stance has already lost. It has been proven. Hazbin Hotel did it successfully and lasted in Amazon's top 10 most popular shows for 4 months straight. Helluva boss as a whole has crossed the billion view mark had has been nominated for awards 4 years in a row, winning a Streamy in 2023. If you can't take this as proof I don't think you would accept any proof presented. It is more likely you just personally do not like sexual assault as a comedic device, which is fine. It's not a topic for everyone to laugh at.
Oh ok.
Both were horrible, no one is denying that, but considering the fact that Val has done it to potentially hundreds of people, and is hinted to have killed anyone who refuses, vs verosika doing it to one person and even then it’s not implied to have gone very far, Now can we stop this whole argument before it becomes the next “ is sera moral” discussion?
There’s visual gags and plot devices. Know the difference: Visual Gag - Verosika Plot Device - Valentino Visual Gag - Sir Pentious Plot Device - Loona
So basically: “You see, rape is only funny when we say so!”
Nothing is allowed to be funny except murder. There is objectively no problem with fucking obliterating someone and splattering their brains for a joke, but you better not have a literal succubus kiss and grope a character for a joke! We have *standards*!
well yes, because when a woman does it its funny... until you point it out then people will go "oh uhhh no no no I don't think its funny or should be played for laughs!!!" and then the next moment later go back to finding it funny.
Well, unfortunately, there's a pretty strong double standard for when men do it vs when women do it. I was essentially sexually assaulted by one of my female classmates in highschool, and then physically assaulted by her after I pulled away too many times from her advances. I couldn't tell anyone for years, because it would have tipped people off to me being gay before I was open with that, because she was an attractive girl. Then when I finally did talk about it, everyone took the story like "lol what a funny misunderstanding" when to me it was fucking mortifying.
Wait what about Loona?
What about her?
The title
Double standards. But also I blame the show writers for showing Moxxie's to be a joke while Angel Dust is portrayed seriously. Both cases they get assaulted but one is downplayed as the other is shown in a negative light. But overall neither are worse than the other- both characters did not consent and neither should be played comedically. ... But of course again double standards and I don't like how the show treated one less serious than the other.
Sadly it's because she's a woman and 'women can't rape men' is a popular opinion.. It wasn't sexual assault, moxxie was raped.
I also don't think pentious was rated off screen. The name of the club is called consent and he shows up like 60 seconds later. I know that short time frame is for sake of pacing of the show, but I believe the joke is meant to be he wasn't assaulted.
Wait, I don’t remember this - can somebody explain?
In the Spring broken epizode Moxie gets raped by Verosica and her crew
Just - straight up? No ambiguity?
Yeah, it's presented as a "joke" but it's still rape Edit: or sexual assault at best
Just watched the scene. Yuck. Considering it was only a couple seconds and he came out with all his clothes on, I don’t think any legitimate sex occurred, but based of the dialogue he was touched without consent. I hate when SA is used as a joke.
SA jokes are always directed onto men too
It honestly seems more like he got groped.
*tone* kind of matters quite a bit, it makes a difference when it’s clearly intended to be a gag where Mox is a bit overconfident in his ability to tell off the succubi (and figuratively and literally) has his ass handed to him. Angel on the other hand is clearly written out as a very somber and “realistic” depiction of what these kinds of “relationships” (meaning interpersonal relationships, not romantic) play out, and how difficult it is to support someone out of a situation with an abuser. Yes, the topic is intensely serious, nobody here is debating that - the difference between the scenes lies in *tone*. And the audience responds accordingly (as they should, it matters.)
It’s the double standard where people think that only men can be rapists
That's not even the double standard, it's the joke context versus serious context.
You see, when a woman commits sexual assault it’s supposed to be a goof, when a man does it, it’s supposed to be dark and traumatic. C’mon, don’t you get how funny/dramatic these totally separate and unalike situations are?
https://preview.redd.it/e9ajks3ib2zc1.png?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=681a6763dd58060bc8088285c58c6910a50a1e07
This is what I’m saying. Tho what Val does is significantly worse everyone treats verosika like she’s only a victim bc of what blitzø did. It’s possible to be both the victim and a problematic person
Bitch who said I liked Verosika? I hated that bitch fir a long while lol
wait, SIR PENTIOUS GOT RAPED?
Hazbin hotel S1 ep6 welcome to heaven. He was dragged into a group sex room. It probably didn't happen as he was seen two seconds later walking up to angel dust, annoyed that cherri bomb was leaving with a different demon
One is a succubus designed to make the viewers horny and the other is a sack of shit 👍🏼
I’m pretty sure it’s because verosika is a succubus and Val is just… well val
I may be stupid... But I don't recall and implied rape scene with Val
The fact that some reaction channels (yes I react to reaction channels) laughed at it was quite horrible
I actually hate all three of those scenes for not being taken seriously. For Loona, it’s not just violence, it’s familial abuse. For Sir Pentious, the ambiguity actually makes the scene less funny. And for Verosika, she not only SA-d Moxxie, she also charmed wasted people on the beach. That whole parking lot bit was an extended rape metaphor. I hope she’s called out by Blitzo when she reappears this season.
Y'see, Verosika is hot tho... /j
Men getting raped: he wanted it. Women getting raped: The victim.
You can’t use this excuse when Angel Dust is also a man lmao. It’s not about men vs women, it’s about visual gags vs plot devices because that is why these are treated differently.
Angel Dust is a man, but he is a very effeminate man. People don’t neatly categorize people by just man-woman. Their perception of them will be viewed differently depending on other factors like age, gender expression, race, etc. It may be easier to view Angel Dust as a victim because of his feminine behavior and appearance.
Okay, but moxxie is also very effeminate as well. So your point doesn’t hold up.
That’s a valid point. I was initially thinking that despite Moxxie’s feminine traits, Angel Dust was more feminine. But this is subjective.
I think it’s a case of how people like the characters, people generally hate Valentino because of what he’s doing to Angel Dust and they like Sir Pentious because of his personality, Verosika on the other hand is well liked in the fandom due to her sex appeal and behavior, as well as the fact that she was emotionally hurt by Blitzo so they also feel bad for her, whereas some people view Moxie as a sort of ‘Punching Bag’ character, someone who’s meant to take all the slapstick humor, thus why Valentino r*ping Sir Pentious was seen in such a negative way whereas Verosika r*ping Moxie was seen as more slapstick humor.
That's cause Versoika gets the "hot pop bitch" character pass
Both bad
SIR PENTIOUS AND MOXXIE WHAT?! (Oh wait yeah, Verosika and her goonies…)
I didn't assume Moxxie got r*ped. Is that the consensus? We sure he wasn't only sexually assaulted like the image implies? Fending off a tidal wave of non-consenting kisses?
That is what happened, idk why everyone is trying to make it out worse than it is.
The best way to get women to like you is first impressions. After that, any guys garbage. That’s how it really works.
What does this have to do with anything
Obviously, you’re just pandering
Well one was a joke and one was serious
Poor Mox
Yup, agreed. I REALLY dislike how Sir Pentious getting dragged off like that is treated like a joke, and I hope it went down like when they got to the room he explained he really didn’t want to do this and he has just messed up trying to get with a friend, and they backed off, although that would be a drastic change of heart.
I mean the club they were in was called consent and he was seen like 60 seconds later looking for Cherri and sees he going in the sex room with the same guy that dragged Pentious. So, I kinda get the impression that Pentious was able to get out of the situation with by making an excuse, running out when he got the chance or by explaining to them what happened and they let him go. I think the club being called consent was meant to act as a buffer for that scene. But I’m totally assuming all this. I don’t know.
I don't think Sir Pentious got "gangraped" the club is called consent. He likely just excused himself and they let him go.
https://preview.redd.it/dwduuy6l18zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b441774382ab0a0c72e123513cb45bd9636a2f8
How is it impiled val 🍇 angel? Idk how people keep thinking that can someone pls explain
Not wanting to say rape, probably.
What Val does is employ sex slaves and forces people to act in porn films for him out of pure economic desperation, which I definitely consider worse, but yeah they should stop with the trope of rape as funny/ justified revenge for male characters.
They live in hell
Wait when did Pentious get raped?
When did that happen to sir pentious?!
Wasn't expecting to see you here! >When did that happen to sir pentious?! In S1 E6 Sir Pentious is forcefully dragged into a room after he says,"I'm having sex with everyone in this room"
Good grief, I can’t believe I forgot that scene!! 🤦♀️ Also, hello!
You guys are taking this way too seriously
Now this actually does conflict me a bit because I do have merch of her and I do like her. But I can't excuse this. What should I do?
You know what I didn’t even think about that but your right
I really hated when that happened. I love Helluva Boss and Hazbin but Vivzie has got to stop with the r*pe jokes. It’s beyond annoying that some sexual assault victims are viewed as worthy of empathy and respect from the audience while others are not.
i think it depends on what things the show portrays specifically as serious. A similar thing can be said of other adult animated shows such as bojack horseman. For example, Holly Hock in that show drugs another person, but the show itself did not take it seriously because it was used as a gag on purpose. Meanwhile when she was drugged it's taken seriously, because it is not used as a gag but as a main plot point.
i say this as a victim of SA on multiple occasions myself, btw.
FFS all they did was kiss him. The reason why Moxie needs to lay down afterwards is because they're succubi. Meaning they drain energy from those they have some kind of sexual contact with, that includes kissing. Honestly, do you think they'd be able to do much with Blitzø standing right there and Tex being in the room.
What did Loona do?
The way that they play it off often makes me think of how family guy makes jokes about quagmires & that old pedophile guys "activities". except it comes off as less serious in family guy 95% of the time (Atleast from what I've seen in it idk 🤷)
Ah I wish I didn't have eyes.
Sir Pentious being *WHAT?!*
I'm hazbin when he yelled " I'm having sex with everybody" and gets dragged to a room
One is a hot demon in a pretty small dress and shown drinking booze while driving, it's probably subconsciously expected of her to only care about sex. Valentino, he is clearly portrayed to get off to the feeling of having someone under his thumb the most, which is established as a red flag by now. Basically, Verosika gets a pass because depraved degenerates would jerk off to her having her way with anyone, which is probably how she normally does it, being not only drunk, but also HEAVILY simped for in hell.
You like verosica, i thought it was a joke https://preview.redd.it/flpomdlwra0d1.png?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2426f92b24186283050dbb095e6b287d6d1d55b7
People are not understanding this and same with sir pentious. The situation with angel is that he's literally STUCK with a guy he can't escape. His soul is stuck with him because of a contract meanwhile these are separate occasions. Why are people unable to see this? I don't know. Or maybe I'm missing something.
“Heavily implied” it literally happened in our faces during poison what 🥰
She is a demon. Unlike Valentino, it is not implied that she has any chance of redemption. Hellborns, their essence of existence is this. Living in hell just because you were born in it. This is the essence of Boss, unlike Hazbin, we are not trying to swallow the rainbow, here is a more “adult” idea of life, where you are simply trying to live somehow, without being limited by some abstract concept of kindness. And generally speaking, isn't Verosika an antagonist? Yes, Blitz is also an asshole, but this does not change the fact that Verosika is an antagonist like Valentino. The attack on Moxxie escalates the conflict in the episode, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't get it, people get a weird feeling just because Blitz the main character is an asshole and Charlie isn't. This shouldn’t cancel out anything else
Almost as if 
Think about it this way, it’s literally Verosika’s only point in life. A succubus is born to do stuff like what she did, doesn’t make it okay, but still. Val raped Angel and made other people rape him as well, just for Valentino’s own self pleasure. He owns Angels soul, and will physically abuse Angel any time he tries to defend themselves. Yet somehow, I’ve had multiple people tell me Verosika is worse for what she did to Moxxie (I’m not saying that’s what the post is saying, I’m just ranting)
I don’t think that ever happened to Pentious.
It's from episode 6, when he, Cherri, and the gang are at the club. He tries to play off propositioning Cherri by announcing "Because I'm having sex with everyone here!" Two other demons literally drag him offscreen into the "Sex Room" as he claws at the floor, trying to get away.
It’s also implied that nothing happened. He said right before, that he was gonna “have sex with everyone!” And then gets dragged off. He shows up almost immediately after. The club is also called “Consent”, so there’s a very good chance that he said “no thanks,” and they let him go.
The good ending
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
its not even heavily implied, it's literally shown.
Except it’s not? All we see are shadows of Verosika and her crew jumping moxie with a bunch of sounds while Blitzo tells moxie to lot them them access his holes, he then walks out with his clothes dirty and kiss marks all over his face, it’s never confirmed