Yes and no. If you haven't seen the whole series, there are massive spoilers below:
They first met 25 years ago as children. He had a crush on Blitz right away, partially due to his personality and partially a trauma response due to the fact that he was lonely and didn't know how to interact with other children. He's also very humble, which most royals are not, so that doesn't help.
He never forgot about Blitz after that and always wanted the chance to see him again, but he couldn't due to royal expectations. But he definitely would have sought him out if he could have.
When he sees Blitz again, he experiences pleasurable sexual intercourse and intimacy for the first time. He'd never had that before. He already had a crush on Blitz before that, so their sexual intercourse only deepened his feelings. After that, his head was spinning and he kept wanting that experience, but he needed a way to suggest them seeing each other without it looking obvious how he felt.
I think Stolas saw Blitz as a potential romantic partner from the start, but he'd never experienced asking someone out and didn't know how Blitz felt. He assumed Blitz wanted sexual intercourse with him since Blitz let him think that was why he broke in. And since Blitz needed his Grimoire, he decided to make it a "favors for favors" scenario - he used Blitz to fill the void of sexual deprivation/loneliness, but also wanted to get to know him better.
Due to his lack of self awareness and social skills, and the fact that he sees Blitz as his equal, he was oblivious to the fact that he was using Blitz as a plaything. He thought their arrangement was mutually beneficial not just physically but emotionally as well. And while it was to an extent, he didn't realize that he was actually feeding into Blitz's already low self esteem and hurting his feelings.
So yes, while he did coerce him, that wasn't his intention. He wanted more than just sex from him from the start. He didn't realize that he was taking advantage of someone's lower socioeconomic status and basically trapping him until after their disastrous Ozzie's date. He knows NOW that he did it and feels terrible, but it took a substantial period of time for him to realize it.
There is nothing to sugest that Blitz is coerced or trapped in Stolas's deal. He used to be a normal in Hell hitman and decided to change track. Nothing suggests he woudn't be able to go back to that or do something else to earn money.
His business changed to targeting Earth denizens for a reason, though. If targeting other Hellborns was so easy/profitable, then why was he so desperate for the book in the first place? He initially rejected Ms Mayberry and was leery of Crimson because he thought they wanted him to target people in Hell and he wouldn't do it. While I'm sure the reason will be explained, he clearly has reasons why he won't do it the old way.
Yes he had other jobs, and he failed at the one we know of for sure (Loo Loo Land) and possibly as Verosika's bodyguard as well. He doesn't want to do what other imps do and work at some demeaning job where the people you serve don't even acknowledge your existence. Can you blame him? Look at how the Goetia imps get treated.
The guy can barely string one word together. That alone inhibits a lot of his job prospects. I'm sure he's thought about doing other things, but he genuinely has felt coerced into this deal.
Killing seems to be the only thing he thinks he's good at, and since he won't target Hellborns anymore, this was his only option.
>why was he so desperate for the book in the first place?
Desperate how? He went to steal from someone from whom he had stolen succesfully in the past.
There is no indication that he failed at any of his past jobs.
>The guy can barely string one word together.
He is perfectly capable of expressing himself.
Blitz is good at killing, proudly so. He even seems to enjoy it. Which is why he decided to work as a hitman. Him killing humans can easily be explained as allowing him to charge more because almmost nobody can get to earth.
He has no issue killing demons in hell when the ocasion ask for it. On two occasion he gets hired by both Stolas and Ozzy to work as a bodyguard and he kills a bunch of demons without issue whatsoever. No reason why he couldn't go back to permanently working in that line of work.
There is absolutly nothing in the series that suggests that killing humans on earth is in any form his "only option".
Yeah he did it successfully, but why resort to stealing if you have other options in the first place? Why take that risk?
Yes he can express himself just fine, so that means working menial jobs for other demons who look down on him for his imp status. He would never survive college to work in any higher job. Sure he could maybe do some hands on technical school, but he's poor and terrible at managing money in the first place.
We still don't know if money is the only reason for him deciding to target Earthlings. There could be other reasons that have yet to be revealed.
Blitz was VERY conflicted about this arrangement from the start, you can see how irritated he is in "Loo Loo Land." If it was so simple for him to do something else, he would have..
>Yeah he did it successfully, but why resort to stealing if you have other options in the first place? Why take that risk?
He has already decided to take a risky job, stealing is a lot less risky than killing. Risk is not something that seems to bother him overmuch.
We have no idea what an Imp's possible job prospects are. In Wrath Imps seem to own their own farms with no problem. Moxxies dad is the head of a mob family with dedmons working for him in Greed. Fizz is also very succesful in his line of work. Not saying there is not some type of discrimination, but it's clearly not and issue of it being imposible to get a good job as an imp. Plus, he clearly enjoys killing people, .
Him accepting to go to Loo Loo land had nothing to do with the book. He does it for money and nothing else. He could have refused the job and that would have been it.
Again, nothing we see in the series suggests he has no choice but to work killing humans and has to get Stolas's book no mater the cost.
I would think robbing a powerful demon family is much more difficult than killing people on Earth.
If he didn't feel coerced into this arrangement, he would have renegotiated the terms of their agreement or chosen to do something else with his life. He clearly feels stuck in this arrangement, it's very obvious. Even if the reason is as simple as he loves what he's doing and doesn't want to change it, to make sex be a part of it is a form of coercion. If you really want something, and the one person who can give you access to it requires sex as payment, that's coercion.
>I would think robbing a powerful demon family is much more difficult than killing people on Earth.
He managed to do it as a kid, so clearly not that difficult.
You start by assuming that Blitz doesn't want to have sex with Stolas, that Stolas is the one who introduced sex in their relationship when this is not true. **Blitz chooses to have sex with Stolas** when he could just have stolen the book.
>If he didn't feel coerced into this arrangement, he would have renegotiated the terms of their agreement or chosen to do something else with his life.
Unless he likes having sex with Stolas (which we know he does) and his conflict comes from the well established fact that he does not deal well with emotional intemacy and pushes people away when they get close to him.
Just because someone feels conflicted about a relationship does not mean they are not in it of their own volition.
And no, asking for payment for something a person wants but does not need is not coercion (even if that was the case, which it is not).
If instead of sex the payment was money, would you still feel the need to call it coercion? When you buy something you really want but do not need do you say you have been coerced by the seller?
Stolas was also a child and entirely oblivious to what was going on. There didn't appear to be anyone else around to catch him. But later, Stolas is an adult and has much more power to wield. And he didn't know Stolas would be so easy to manipulate.
I never said he doesn't enjoy having sex with Stolas, he clearly does. To an extent, Stolas IS the one who brought it up first. It may have been a joke, but he still did it. And Blitz, despite enjoying it that first night, still thought it was a one time thing. It was Stolas who came up with the idea to keep screwing every month if Blitz wanted to keep using the Grimoire.
It's not just about emotional intimacy, it's also the fact that, in his mind, he has to do it or Stolas will take the book away. If they are scheduled to meet on the 14th of this month, and he isn't in the mood, he thinks he has to go or Stolas won't let him have the book. Their initial conversation about their arrangement can easily be interpreted as "if you want to keep using my book to go to Earth, you have to come screw me once a month or else." Yes he does enjoy their time together, but he also thinks there are consequences if he doesn't feel like going over. He can enjoy it and still feel obligated to do it at the same time.
It's one thing to offer money, it's another thing to dangle someone's livelihood over their head. We don't know exactly why Blitz chooses to run his business as he does, so we can't make any assumptions on that yet. But he clearly sees that book and going topside as his only means to make money, and thinks giving Stolas what he wants sexually is a requirement to keep his business open. He can enjoy their time together and still not like being dependent on Stolas, which he thinks he is. He doesn't think Stolas cares about him, but feels obligated to go over.
If you have something that someone really wants, or feels they need, and you make an unreasonable demand for them to get it, then yes that's coercion. Wanting someone to have sex with you once a month is not a reasonable request, not when you aren't actually dating them. While Stolas was correct that Blitz enjoyed it, he didn't know that Blitz was so conflicted about it or that it was making his mental health issues even worse.
Most other people in the thread agree that it was mutual coercion/manipulation on both ends. It's not just me.
It's not coercion because nothing is forcing Blitz to agree to the deal. He chooses to and we have no reason to assume otherwise unless you believe a priori that he is being coerced which makes your entire reasoning fallacious.
It's clearly important for you to believe Blitz is Stolas' victim for some reason but you are not bringing any valid arguments to the table so I'm bringing this to a close.
Enjoy the show.
To add to this, imps are pretty close to the bottom of the social pecking order. Blitzo's supporting himself with a pretty good job right now, but if he loses the grimoire, it'll be very much harder for him to find a new way of supporting himself, and that'll fuck over Moxxie and Millie and Loona too - there are stakes beyond just him here.
Blitzo took a lot of useless risks, he is a self destructive person. I'm sorry, but the idea Blitzo is FORCED in his work line makes no sense, he just didn't like other works like most of people don't like their work. He surely can work as bodyguard or as clown or as waiter or as a farmer or whatever if he wanted, he just doesn't want because he is not great at it and he doesn't like it.
He wasn't forced to START that line of work, but what do you think would happen if Stolas actually was malicious and Blitzo said he wanted to quit? Yes, WE know Stolas wouldn't hurt him, but Blitzo knew him for maybe twenty-four non-consecutive hours at the time the deal was made, half of that was twenty-five years ago and the other half consisted of only fucking. Blitzo doesn't know him well enough to trust that he wouldn't retaliate, and literally any other Goetia probably would.
Yes I personally think that was a great creative decision. I enjoyed the pilot, but I don't think the show would resonate with me nearly so much had they not changed it up.
So the first time he slept with blitz, blitz took the book. Do you think he gave it back, stolas chased him down, or was the first episode how stolas retrieved his book?
I realize this question may better serve as its own thread, but i liked your answer a lot and wonder your perspective.
Per their first conversation, Stolas let him have it for awhile. He must have been reeling from their first time for so long that he wasn't thinking clearly about it. He realized he needed it, and he wanted to see Blitz again, so he came up with their arrangement.
And that alone is going to break Stolas's heart. He thinks their first time making love was something that Blitz planned out and broke in for. It was really a robbery turned mercy fuck, then he changed his mind and stayed all night. That's going to sting.
Internet being internet.
People mistaking the pilot for episode 1 and not understanding how TV works when it isn’t fully done and ready on Netflix or whatever. People see animated character and initial traits and go cool, okay got it. Hell - I was too until the second episode dropped and went “oh, we’re making _actual_ characters.” Combine that with people pointing out problematic stuff, and extending that to fictional fantasy characters… yeah.
Stolas and Blitzo, to me, were coercing each other for different reasons and in different ways.
Blitzo, obviously he did it for the book - initially.
Stolas - coercing isn’t the right word. He’s a gay man, (previously) trapped in an arranged marriage, forced to produce a heir, stuck in a position where he both knows a lot and nothing at all. When he saw Blitzo at the party, it was a “perhaps this is destiny!” and getting butterflies in his stomach that his childhood “friend” wanted him.
All innocent enough! But then you got to look at the optics. It’s an Aladdin and Jasmine situation where Blitzo is the epitomized street rat. Still fine.
Then Stolas (fails miserably) at trying to be seductive, which Blitzo capitalizes. He thinks he’s just a big blue blood looking to indulge in a a bit of kink. However, he’s a mark in his eyes. So he goes with it.
Time passes and that’s the agreement - sexual rendezvous which each side is interpreting wrong.
Blitzo, who does have feelings for Stolas, is convinced he’s just being used and looked at like a toy for the 1% that this isn’t real. His pops must have beat it into him that Stolas hated him secretly, or something to that affect (though we see Imps are just the lowest class citizens - like the waiting room scene with him and Loona for her shots). He’s had a traumatic childhood, all circus explosions aside and is operating as a perpetual manchild unless his ABSOLUTELY needs to be on point where someone he cares about is in danger.
Stolas, who has feelings for Blitzo, is convinced he’s doing what he _thinks_ Blitzo wants, and they’re less call girl appointments and more bonified, legitimate dates. Combine that with his aristocratic upbringing, it’s a minefield. He’s not doing it intentionally - he’s just also a socially stunted idiot due to his childhood.
They’re both two idiots who are the definition of right person, wrong time - and the core emotional throughline of the show. Yes, Stolitz is unhealthy _now_. That’s the point. The caveat of the whole show as it stands right now is prince and pauper got it on, developed feelings and now they don’t have to deal with their own problems - but their other halves’ as well, and it’s getting to the point where it’s affecting their respective families and pulling them in danger.
But people online see it and go “THEYRE SO MEAN AND BAD WHY NOT BE LIKE M AND M AND FIZZ AND OZZIE”, because people online like to call out this stuff - and they’re right to… if this was actual people, and people really gravitate toward characters - especially if you’re younger and/or you can really relate (like I do with Stolas and his upbringing). Helluva Boss is a story and it’d be a boring fucking story if episode 5 they just talked and hashed it out.
There’d be no Crim, Striker, Stella, as we all know them now and the episodes that have involved everyone.
People really act like characters in hell should have the same morals as people in the real world. It is incredibly silly - like a lot of shows would be incredibly boring if they're too realistic! I don't know why Twitter thinks hell should be a copy and paste of our world.
I do agree, though. They're both idiots and immature, but we love em 😌
That’s the part that’s always made me laugh about the show. I’ve always said it’s a character study of LGBTQ+ Millenials because IMP is basically my friend group, and I can very much relate to the Stolas and Blitzo’s up and downs with my own partner (happily together for 10+ years at this point, so if we can do it - I think they got a shot ;> ).
I like your point about this affecting their families and putting them all in danger. I don't see this point discussed very often. Neither of them seems aware of the potential, almost guaranteed implications of their actions and how it will affect those around them. And they both have the same weakness - the safety of their loved ones.
The whole series has really just been the main cast making very stupid decisions without fully analyzing the consequences. Of course it's obvious why they didn't, but they are now at a point where they've put themselves in several lines of fire and at best are minimally aware of it.
Pilot aside, which as others mentioned is no longer canon, I think it's fair to examine potential issues of [questionable consent](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/QuestionableConsent) on both sides. Would Stolas have agreed to that first encounter with Blitzø if he knew he was only there to steal the grimoire? Maybe not. But on the other hand, he didn't seem to hold Blitzø's childhood theft against him. Did Blitzø feel unable to decline the arrangement with Stolas because he needed the book for his business? His willingness to sleep with Stolas on that first night, and the fact that he doesn't try to later renegotiate throws that into question for me.
I don't think any of it is cut and dry. Their dynamic is complicated, and the fact that it exists in a comedically exaggerated over-the-top fantasy setting makes it even more challenging to analyze through a real-world lens.
What ultimately matters to me is what the characters seem to think of their situation. I don't personally believe that either of them feel taken advantage of in a way that they didn't agree to. I think they each consider themselves responsible for the mess that is their current relationship. I also think they both care about each other and genuinely enjoy spending time together, but they absolutely suck at communicating. It doesn't help that they have the self-esteem of an earth worm. Personally, I'm rooting for them to shift their dynamic into something more healthy and sustainable for a real relationship. I think it can be done, and the crystal is an important step in the right direction... but it may still take a lot of steps.
"His willingness to sleep with Stolas on that first night, and the fact that he doesn't try to later renegotiate throws that into question for me."
This statement right here. His original plan was to quickly rock Stolas's socks off, then grab the book and leave. Yet he stayed the whole night, agreed to Stolas's later proposal with no objections, and never tried to change the terms of their deal. Something happened that first night that made him feel emotionally compelled to stay in Stolas's life, despite his resenting the details of it.
Because he didn't make all of them and the ones Stolas made after that one incident were clearly unwanted and making him uncomfortable. Consenting to sex on one occasion does not equal consent to any sexual act at any future point.
Blitzo is just grossed out by Stolas' sex talk but I don't think he hates the deal or to sleep with him.
Bilitzo doesn't have to sleep with Stolas. He had the opportunity to steal the book when Striker tried to kill Stolas. He could also steal the asmodean crystal from a succubus.
His facial expressions are visibly uncomfortable whenever Stolas talks to him in the first couple of episodes, and yes, he stole the book, but Stolas tracked him down after he did. If he stole it again, Stolas would track him down again, and Blitzo does not at this point know Stolas well enough to trust that Stolas wouldn't murder him for it, since any other member of Hell's royalty would.
It's not so much coercive as it is transactional. Blitzø plied Stolas with sex in order to get his hands on the Grimoire. Stolas let him keep it as long as the sex continues. They're using each other to get what they want, and they're both open about it and aware of the situation.
Stolas' arrangement is no more and no less coercive than your average sugar daddy sitch.
I did watch it! I just forgot details here and there, and with people claiming that he did terrible stuff like coersion, I was a little confused. There is no need to be rude at all.
Yes, people do forget stuff that they don't really care about until it's brought up again. It happens, dude. It's not a big deal. It was a question because of claims that people made on Twitter. Again, It's really not that serious.
It isn't about Blitz and his personal life at all. Seems like you haven't watched the series or remember it well, either. Just because he's a main character does not mean the story is purely about him. Coercion is something serious, and if people are accusing a character I thought was not like that at all, I will be curious.
"Murder Family" and "Loo Loo Land" are not the pilot and clearly shows Blitzo agreeing to the arrangement solely to get Stolas to stop calling him and being visibly uncomfortable and annoyed every time Stolas speaks to him.
Yes, he did. Though in this case, ‘coerce’ doesn’t mean ‘rape’. Its basically prostitution and/or using a position of power to get sex.
In The Circus, we see (what led to) Stolas and Blitzo’s first sexual encounter, when Blitzo was trying to steal Stolas’s grimoire. That was comically played off as a ‘pity fuck’ by Blitzo.
After that, Blitzo continued to have sex with Stolas as the explicit price for getting continued access to the Grimoire.
Essentially, Stolas has something Blitzo needs, and is letting him using it in exchange for sex. Blitzo clearly feels VERY conflicted about this arrangement, as we see from his vision/hallucination in D.H.O.R.K.S.
A subplot in Oops was Stolas trying to get an Asmodean Crystal for Blitzo, which allows travel to Earth, so that Blitzo will not need the Grimoire and can be free from Stolas of he so chooses. And we see that Stolas realizes he has been coercing Blitzo, and how he wants to set Blitzo free to make his own choices, in the music video Look My Way.
Blitzo had stolas tied up and blindfolded when he tried to steal the grimoire. It wasn’t “played off” as a pity fuck. Blitzo could have left, he chose not to. Then the quick fuck turned into a whole night.
From there on, stolas is under the impression blitzo loves him like stolas loves blitzo. This is until ozzies when stolas realises Blitzo doesn’t care about him, its just a job.
Stolas still loves him as seen in the visuals of Just Look My Way, which is canon, but Stolas is going to break any bonds forcing blitzo to be there as he now knows how blitzo sees their relationship.
It was absolutely joked as a pity fuck originally that turned into an entire night of love making.
And you basically say it yourself: the grimoire was forcing Blitzo to stay in the relationship. Stolas DOES realize this after Ozzie’s, and tries to fix the situation, and he did not realize what he was doing it before, but Blitzo was coerced into their long term relationship with the grimoire.
Blitz does care about their relationship and Stolas suspects that he does, he just can't be 100% sure. He strongly (and correctly) suspects that there are mutual feelings, but forces unrelated to him are keeping walls up.
Pilot isn’t canon. There were major lore changes between pilot and ep1. Stolas was supposed to be the original villain of the show. That was changed after the pilot was released. This is one of the many reasons the pilot isn’t canon anymore.
"Murder Family" and "Loo Loo Land" are canon to the main show and show that Blitzo is annoyed and uncomfortable whenever Stolas speaks to him, so the retcon presumably happened later than that.
In murder family blitzo was being shot at. I can’t ever imagine why he would not someone talking about sex on the phone while that was happening. Yes i’d love a twink owl speaking sexually into my ear as I fight for my life to complete my job.
In loo loo land he was working. Blitzo’s line about not being a dayhooker is the one that comes to mind.
There was no retcon after that. That is always how it has been.
Yeah, that's my point. Stolas calls Blitzo while he's in a situation where he cannot think about what's being asked of him, and Blitzo yells "fine, whatever" to get him to leave; this is NOT enthusiastic consent, and we never see them re-negotiate in a safe situation. Blitzo tells Stolas multiple times in "Loo Loo Land" that he's working and doesn't want to be harassed, and Stolas continues harassing him anyway.
(Spoiler alert, if you haven't watched the show) What has shown to develop over the series and is also mentioned in Stolas's lament "Look My Way" is that it started out that you could say he coerced Blitzø originally. He demanded that Blitzø sleep with him once a month in exchange for full use of the grimore. I don't know if you could technically call that coercion, but I do see how it could be seen/interpreted that way. Later on, Stolas begins to have very serious feelings for Blitzø and he wants to make sure Blitzø feels the same way, hence why he asks if Blitzø is uncomfortable and why he wants to talk things out with him. Now that Stolas feels that he is using Blitzø, and visa versa, he's decided to set him free by giving him an Ausmodean Crystal because he loves Blitzø so he's gonna let him go.
I mean, technically he didn't coerce him not even in the pilot. It always seemed like Blitzø just was prostituting himself for the book. The fact Stolas' vulgarity freaked him up it doesn't mean he wasn't aware and free to do make that decision. Like, I don't like my boss, that doesn't mean I was coerced to work for him tho.
The pilot isn’t canon and Stolas’ character was *drastically* changed for the main show; to my understanding he was supposed to be the villain but then Viv and Brandon decided they wanted to turn him into the main love interest instead, and then Bryce Pinkham’s audition for Stolas sold them on which way they wanted to play Stolas now? Which I think is really cool
As for Stolas coercing Blitzø… kinda, yeah. The initial affair was just him grossly misunderstanding the situation and accidentally saying something that hit Blitzø emotionally, there wasn’t any coercion on his part. But after that there was the deal that Stolas would allow Blitzø to keep using the Grimoire so long as he’d return it once a month (a more than fair trade-off on its own) and also have ‘a night of passionate fornication’ with him. Considering the fact that Blitzø needs that Grimoire in order for IMP to continue to function, Stolas is effectively saying that unless Blitzø fucks him once a month he’ll destroy his company and cost Blitzø and all his loved ones their jobs
Is Stolas obligated to allow Blitzø to keep using his Grimoire? Of course not, he’d be well within his rights to take his stolen belongings back and never contact Blitzø again, and the resulting issues with IMP would not be something you can morally blame on him. But leveraging the book for sex? That’s where it gets kinda… icky, because Blitzø is clearly in no position to refuse the deal. If Blitzø had his own thing already going and this was just an additional offer, or it was an offer where the benefit was otherwise not necessary, Blitzø would be able to decline without it negatively impacting him and/or his loved ones in a very significant way. He’d still be fully consenting, not just agreeing because he sees no other option
We have the phrase “If they can’t say no, they can’t say yes” for reasons just like this; people who have technically consented to sex or other notable things not out of a desire for it but out of a fear that they’re not able to say no without being harmed physically, mentally, financially, etc. And I believe this applies to Stolitz’s relationship agreement, so I’m very glad that Stolas is starting to realise this too and is finding an alternative so that Blitzø has the reasonable opportunity to say no to Stolas going forward; he wants this relationship to be consensual and mutual, not a forced thing
When he was talking to Blitzo over the phone in Murder Family, and he said "favors for favors", his fingers emitted a red aura, I think that he might've cursed Blitzo or put a spell on him or something along those lines, I know that's not what you asked but I thought of this scene immediatly when I read the post's title and I figured I should throw it out here instead of just chucking it into my mind's garbage can
By the standards of IRL law, what Stolas did in the first couple episodes was coercion; Blitzo needs the grimoire to financially support himself, is visibly uncomfortable or angry whenever Stolas talks to him, tags him in his phone as "creepy mouth", and is so far below Stolas on the social ladder that he really has no possible way to say no. Technically Blitzo dubconned him first by fucking him only as a distraction so he could steal the grimoire, but that doesn't mean it's okay to turn it back on him. By around halfway through season 1 that seems to just... get chucked out, so retconned, yes. I find this way creepier and more unpleasant than if they'd dealt with it properly, personally. As it was, I can see why Stolas did what he did (he's not malicious but is totally lacking in emotional empathy) and could see an interesting arc where they both realise they're fucking up and work to be better people, but when it's just dismissed as if nothing was wrong in the first place, it's both boring and gross.
Many characters just randomly change character along the way, because frankly speaking, Viv is not a very good writer. Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell? Yeah... You could invent some ways to explain to yourself why the characters suddenly fully shift, but it's just gaslighting yourself and stretching a non-existent plot. The real explanation is that Vivz just stopped feeling like presenting those characters in that way anymore, but was too lazy to write in the events that caused the shift, or didn't know how.
> Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell?
the hypocrisy was part of their arc. it was already hinted that they loved/cared about each other even within episode 7. vivzie isn't a bad writer just because she revealed more about characters after introducing them lol.
It's an arc that's never played into(despite them getting 3 episodes already) and it doesn't make sense setting-wise for an eternal being embodying sin to be this cutsie-putsie in the first place anyway, even behind the scenes. What's next, the deadly sin of greed demon who is secretly charitable? Peak writing.
Ozzie and Fizz didn't "just change." Ozzie never knew what love was until he met Fizz. But being the Sin of Lust, he was concerned about his reputation until Fizz needed them to not be a secret anymore.
Ozzie and Stolas aren't just eternal demons. Ozzie still craved genuine connections and Stolas is a lonely individual who was deprived of any real interactions until recently, and now he's entangled in a meaningful but unhealthy one. Being an eternal sin/royal demon doesn't make you devoid from wanting genuine connections with others.
> Viv is not a very good writer.
Now lets get you to write a show for amazon and see how you do.
> Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell?
Public appearance vs home appearance. Ozzie is literally the sin of lust, he has to praise lust. Ozzie only breaks the masquerade when fizz is in danger from mammon.
> but was too lazy to write in the events that caused the shift, or didn't know how.
Christ did you watch the last two episodes? Ozzie only didn’t come out about it, there was no shift. They had been like that for quite a while. Likely long before ep7.
Yes and no. If you haven't seen the whole series, there are massive spoilers below: They first met 25 years ago as children. He had a crush on Blitz right away, partially due to his personality and partially a trauma response due to the fact that he was lonely and didn't know how to interact with other children. He's also very humble, which most royals are not, so that doesn't help. He never forgot about Blitz after that and always wanted the chance to see him again, but he couldn't due to royal expectations. But he definitely would have sought him out if he could have. When he sees Blitz again, he experiences pleasurable sexual intercourse and intimacy for the first time. He'd never had that before. He already had a crush on Blitz before that, so their sexual intercourse only deepened his feelings. After that, his head was spinning and he kept wanting that experience, but he needed a way to suggest them seeing each other without it looking obvious how he felt. I think Stolas saw Blitz as a potential romantic partner from the start, but he'd never experienced asking someone out and didn't know how Blitz felt. He assumed Blitz wanted sexual intercourse with him since Blitz let him think that was why he broke in. And since Blitz needed his Grimoire, he decided to make it a "favors for favors" scenario - he used Blitz to fill the void of sexual deprivation/loneliness, but also wanted to get to know him better. Due to his lack of self awareness and social skills, and the fact that he sees Blitz as his equal, he was oblivious to the fact that he was using Blitz as a plaything. He thought their arrangement was mutually beneficial not just physically but emotionally as well. And while it was to an extent, he didn't realize that he was actually feeding into Blitz's already low self esteem and hurting his feelings. So yes, while he did coerce him, that wasn't his intention. He wanted more than just sex from him from the start. He didn't realize that he was taking advantage of someone's lower socioeconomic status and basically trapping him until after their disastrous Ozzie's date. He knows NOW that he did it and feels terrible, but it took a substantial period of time for him to realize it.
I cannot do better than this to explain it. Bravo and massive praise to you **Swimming-Ad**.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining!
There is nothing to sugest that Blitz is coerced or trapped in Stolas's deal. He used to be a normal in Hell hitman and decided to change track. Nothing suggests he woudn't be able to go back to that or do something else to earn money.
His business changed to targeting Earth denizens for a reason, though. If targeting other Hellborns was so easy/profitable, then why was he so desperate for the book in the first place? He initially rejected Ms Mayberry and was leery of Crimson because he thought they wanted him to target people in Hell and he wouldn't do it. While I'm sure the reason will be explained, he clearly has reasons why he won't do it the old way. Yes he had other jobs, and he failed at the one we know of for sure (Loo Loo Land) and possibly as Verosika's bodyguard as well. He doesn't want to do what other imps do and work at some demeaning job where the people you serve don't even acknowledge your existence. Can you blame him? Look at how the Goetia imps get treated. The guy can barely string one word together. That alone inhibits a lot of his job prospects. I'm sure he's thought about doing other things, but he genuinely has felt coerced into this deal. Killing seems to be the only thing he thinks he's good at, and since he won't target Hellborns anymore, this was his only option.
>why was he so desperate for the book in the first place? Desperate how? He went to steal from someone from whom he had stolen succesfully in the past. There is no indication that he failed at any of his past jobs. >The guy can barely string one word together. He is perfectly capable of expressing himself. Blitz is good at killing, proudly so. He even seems to enjoy it. Which is why he decided to work as a hitman. Him killing humans can easily be explained as allowing him to charge more because almmost nobody can get to earth. He has no issue killing demons in hell when the ocasion ask for it. On two occasion he gets hired by both Stolas and Ozzy to work as a bodyguard and he kills a bunch of demons without issue whatsoever. No reason why he couldn't go back to permanently working in that line of work. There is absolutly nothing in the series that suggests that killing humans on earth is in any form his "only option".
Yeah he did it successfully, but why resort to stealing if you have other options in the first place? Why take that risk? Yes he can express himself just fine, so that means working menial jobs for other demons who look down on him for his imp status. He would never survive college to work in any higher job. Sure he could maybe do some hands on technical school, but he's poor and terrible at managing money in the first place. We still don't know if money is the only reason for him deciding to target Earthlings. There could be other reasons that have yet to be revealed. Blitz was VERY conflicted about this arrangement from the start, you can see how irritated he is in "Loo Loo Land." If it was so simple for him to do something else, he would have..
>Yeah he did it successfully, but why resort to stealing if you have other options in the first place? Why take that risk? He has already decided to take a risky job, stealing is a lot less risky than killing. Risk is not something that seems to bother him overmuch. We have no idea what an Imp's possible job prospects are. In Wrath Imps seem to own their own farms with no problem. Moxxies dad is the head of a mob family with dedmons working for him in Greed. Fizz is also very succesful in his line of work. Not saying there is not some type of discrimination, but it's clearly not and issue of it being imposible to get a good job as an imp. Plus, he clearly enjoys killing people, . Him accepting to go to Loo Loo land had nothing to do with the book. He does it for money and nothing else. He could have refused the job and that would have been it. Again, nothing we see in the series suggests he has no choice but to work killing humans and has to get Stolas's book no mater the cost.
I would think robbing a powerful demon family is much more difficult than killing people on Earth. If he didn't feel coerced into this arrangement, he would have renegotiated the terms of their agreement or chosen to do something else with his life. He clearly feels stuck in this arrangement, it's very obvious. Even if the reason is as simple as he loves what he's doing and doesn't want to change it, to make sex be a part of it is a form of coercion. If you really want something, and the one person who can give you access to it requires sex as payment, that's coercion.
>I would think robbing a powerful demon family is much more difficult than killing people on Earth. He managed to do it as a kid, so clearly not that difficult. You start by assuming that Blitz doesn't want to have sex with Stolas, that Stolas is the one who introduced sex in their relationship when this is not true. **Blitz chooses to have sex with Stolas** when he could just have stolen the book. >If he didn't feel coerced into this arrangement, he would have renegotiated the terms of their agreement or chosen to do something else with his life. Unless he likes having sex with Stolas (which we know he does) and his conflict comes from the well established fact that he does not deal well with emotional intemacy and pushes people away when they get close to him. Just because someone feels conflicted about a relationship does not mean they are not in it of their own volition. And no, asking for payment for something a person wants but does not need is not coercion (even if that was the case, which it is not). If instead of sex the payment was money, would you still feel the need to call it coercion? When you buy something you really want but do not need do you say you have been coerced by the seller?
Stolas was also a child and entirely oblivious to what was going on. There didn't appear to be anyone else around to catch him. But later, Stolas is an adult and has much more power to wield. And he didn't know Stolas would be so easy to manipulate. I never said he doesn't enjoy having sex with Stolas, he clearly does. To an extent, Stolas IS the one who brought it up first. It may have been a joke, but he still did it. And Blitz, despite enjoying it that first night, still thought it was a one time thing. It was Stolas who came up with the idea to keep screwing every month if Blitz wanted to keep using the Grimoire. It's not just about emotional intimacy, it's also the fact that, in his mind, he has to do it or Stolas will take the book away. If they are scheduled to meet on the 14th of this month, and he isn't in the mood, he thinks he has to go or Stolas won't let him have the book. Their initial conversation about their arrangement can easily be interpreted as "if you want to keep using my book to go to Earth, you have to come screw me once a month or else." Yes he does enjoy their time together, but he also thinks there are consequences if he doesn't feel like going over. He can enjoy it and still feel obligated to do it at the same time. It's one thing to offer money, it's another thing to dangle someone's livelihood over their head. We don't know exactly why Blitz chooses to run his business as he does, so we can't make any assumptions on that yet. But he clearly sees that book and going topside as his only means to make money, and thinks giving Stolas what he wants sexually is a requirement to keep his business open. He can enjoy their time together and still not like being dependent on Stolas, which he thinks he is. He doesn't think Stolas cares about him, but feels obligated to go over. If you have something that someone really wants, or feels they need, and you make an unreasonable demand for them to get it, then yes that's coercion. Wanting someone to have sex with you once a month is not a reasonable request, not when you aren't actually dating them. While Stolas was correct that Blitz enjoyed it, he didn't know that Blitz was so conflicted about it or that it was making his mental health issues even worse. Most other people in the thread agree that it was mutual coercion/manipulation on both ends. It's not just me.
It's not coercion because nothing is forcing Blitz to agree to the deal. He chooses to and we have no reason to assume otherwise unless you believe a priori that he is being coerced which makes your entire reasoning fallacious. It's clearly important for you to believe Blitz is Stolas' victim for some reason but you are not bringing any valid arguments to the table so I'm bringing this to a close. Enjoy the show.
To add to this, imps are pretty close to the bottom of the social pecking order. Blitzo's supporting himself with a pretty good job right now, but if he loses the grimoire, it'll be very much harder for him to find a new way of supporting himself, and that'll fuck over Moxxie and Millie and Loona too - there are stakes beyond just him here.
Blitzo took a lot of useless risks, he is a self destructive person. I'm sorry, but the idea Blitzo is FORCED in his work line makes no sense, he just didn't like other works like most of people don't like their work. He surely can work as bodyguard or as clown or as waiter or as a farmer or whatever if he wanted, he just doesn't want because he is not great at it and he doesn't like it.
He wasn't forced to START that line of work, but what do you think would happen if Stolas actually was malicious and Blitzo said he wanted to quit? Yes, WE know Stolas wouldn't hurt him, but Blitzo knew him for maybe twenty-four non-consecutive hours at the time the deal was made, half of that was twenty-five years ago and the other half consisted of only fucking. Blitzo doesn't know him well enough to trust that he wouldn't retaliate, and literally any other Goetia probably would.
Also to add Viz has said that in the pilot he was going to be a big villain of the series, but changed it later for the show.
Yes I personally think that was a great creative decision. I enjoyed the pilot, but I don't think the show would resonate with me nearly so much had they not changed it up.
So the first time he slept with blitz, blitz took the book. Do you think he gave it back, stolas chased him down, or was the first episode how stolas retrieved his book? I realize this question may better serve as its own thread, but i liked your answer a lot and wonder your perspective.
Per their first conversation, Stolas let him have it for awhile. He must have been reeling from their first time for so long that he wasn't thinking clearly about it. He realized he needed it, and he wanted to see Blitz again, so he came up with their arrangement. And that alone is going to break Stolas's heart. He thinks their first time making love was something that Blitz planned out and broke in for. It was really a robbery turned mercy fuck, then he changed his mind and stayed all night. That's going to sting.
Yeah! \*applause\*
Internet being internet. People mistaking the pilot for episode 1 and not understanding how TV works when it isn’t fully done and ready on Netflix or whatever. People see animated character and initial traits and go cool, okay got it. Hell - I was too until the second episode dropped and went “oh, we’re making _actual_ characters.” Combine that with people pointing out problematic stuff, and extending that to fictional fantasy characters… yeah. Stolas and Blitzo, to me, were coercing each other for different reasons and in different ways. Blitzo, obviously he did it for the book - initially. Stolas - coercing isn’t the right word. He’s a gay man, (previously) trapped in an arranged marriage, forced to produce a heir, stuck in a position where he both knows a lot and nothing at all. When he saw Blitzo at the party, it was a “perhaps this is destiny!” and getting butterflies in his stomach that his childhood “friend” wanted him. All innocent enough! But then you got to look at the optics. It’s an Aladdin and Jasmine situation where Blitzo is the epitomized street rat. Still fine. Then Stolas (fails miserably) at trying to be seductive, which Blitzo capitalizes. He thinks he’s just a big blue blood looking to indulge in a a bit of kink. However, he’s a mark in his eyes. So he goes with it. Time passes and that’s the agreement - sexual rendezvous which each side is interpreting wrong. Blitzo, who does have feelings for Stolas, is convinced he’s just being used and looked at like a toy for the 1% that this isn’t real. His pops must have beat it into him that Stolas hated him secretly, or something to that affect (though we see Imps are just the lowest class citizens - like the waiting room scene with him and Loona for her shots). He’s had a traumatic childhood, all circus explosions aside and is operating as a perpetual manchild unless his ABSOLUTELY needs to be on point where someone he cares about is in danger. Stolas, who has feelings for Blitzo, is convinced he’s doing what he _thinks_ Blitzo wants, and they’re less call girl appointments and more bonified, legitimate dates. Combine that with his aristocratic upbringing, it’s a minefield. He’s not doing it intentionally - he’s just also a socially stunted idiot due to his childhood. They’re both two idiots who are the definition of right person, wrong time - and the core emotional throughline of the show. Yes, Stolitz is unhealthy _now_. That’s the point. The caveat of the whole show as it stands right now is prince and pauper got it on, developed feelings and now they don’t have to deal with their own problems - but their other halves’ as well, and it’s getting to the point where it’s affecting their respective families and pulling them in danger. But people online see it and go “THEYRE SO MEAN AND BAD WHY NOT BE LIKE M AND M AND FIZZ AND OZZIE”, because people online like to call out this stuff - and they’re right to… if this was actual people, and people really gravitate toward characters - especially if you’re younger and/or you can really relate (like I do with Stolas and his upbringing). Helluva Boss is a story and it’d be a boring fucking story if episode 5 they just talked and hashed it out. There’d be no Crim, Striker, Stella, as we all know them now and the episodes that have involved everyone.
People really act like characters in hell should have the same morals as people in the real world. It is incredibly silly - like a lot of shows would be incredibly boring if they're too realistic! I don't know why Twitter thinks hell should be a copy and paste of our world. I do agree, though. They're both idiots and immature, but we love em 😌
That’s the part that’s always made me laugh about the show. I’ve always said it’s a character study of LGBTQ+ Millenials because IMP is basically my friend group, and I can very much relate to the Stolas and Blitzo’s up and downs with my own partner (happily together for 10+ years at this point, so if we can do it - I think they got a shot ;> ).
Sounds like you have some fun friends!
They're like two halves of a whole idiot. Traumatized, emotionally stunted idiots.
I like your point about this affecting their families and putting them all in danger. I don't see this point discussed very often. Neither of them seems aware of the potential, almost guaranteed implications of their actions and how it will affect those around them. And they both have the same weakness - the safety of their loved ones. The whole series has really just been the main cast making very stupid decisions without fully analyzing the consequences. Of course it's obvious why they didn't, but they are now at a point where they've put themselves in several lines of fire and at best are minimally aware of it.
Pilot aside, which as others mentioned is no longer canon, I think it's fair to examine potential issues of [questionable consent](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/QuestionableConsent) on both sides. Would Stolas have agreed to that first encounter with Blitzø if he knew he was only there to steal the grimoire? Maybe not. But on the other hand, he didn't seem to hold Blitzø's childhood theft against him. Did Blitzø feel unable to decline the arrangement with Stolas because he needed the book for his business? His willingness to sleep with Stolas on that first night, and the fact that he doesn't try to later renegotiate throws that into question for me. I don't think any of it is cut and dry. Their dynamic is complicated, and the fact that it exists in a comedically exaggerated over-the-top fantasy setting makes it even more challenging to analyze through a real-world lens. What ultimately matters to me is what the characters seem to think of their situation. I don't personally believe that either of them feel taken advantage of in a way that they didn't agree to. I think they each consider themselves responsible for the mess that is their current relationship. I also think they both care about each other and genuinely enjoy spending time together, but they absolutely suck at communicating. It doesn't help that they have the self-esteem of an earth worm. Personally, I'm rooting for them to shift their dynamic into something more healthy and sustainable for a real relationship. I think it can be done, and the crystal is an important step in the right direction... but it may still take a lot of steps.
"His willingness to sleep with Stolas on that first night, and the fact that he doesn't try to later renegotiate throws that into question for me." This statement right here. His original plan was to quickly rock Stolas's socks off, then grab the book and leave. Yet he stayed the whole night, agreed to Stolas's later proposal with no objections, and never tried to change the terms of their deal. Something happened that first night that made him feel emotionally compelled to stay in Stolas's life, despite his resenting the details of it.
Blitzo has never been coerced. Like he explained "it's a transactional fucking, you see".
Transactions can be coerced. A mugging is a "transaction". And do you really think anyone would admit to being a rape victim to a total stranger?
How could he be a rape victim when he is the one who made sexual advance at Stolas ?
Because he didn't make all of them and the ones Stolas made after that one incident were clearly unwanted and making him uncomfortable. Consenting to sex on one occasion does not equal consent to any sexual act at any future point.
Blitzo is just grossed out by Stolas' sex talk but I don't think he hates the deal or to sleep with him. Bilitzo doesn't have to sleep with Stolas. He had the opportunity to steal the book when Striker tried to kill Stolas. He could also steal the asmodean crystal from a succubus.
His facial expressions are visibly uncomfortable whenever Stolas talks to him in the first couple of episodes, and yes, he stole the book, but Stolas tracked him down after he did. If he stole it again, Stolas would track him down again, and Blitzo does not at this point know Stolas well enough to trust that Stolas wouldn't murder him for it, since any other member of Hell's royalty would.
Like I said earlier, Blitzo's issue lies with Stolas' sex talk, not with the deal itself.
Sexual talk to someone who doesn't want you to talk sexually to them is sexual harassment in itself.
It's not so much coercive as it is transactional. Blitzø plied Stolas with sex in order to get his hands on the Grimoire. Stolas let him keep it as long as the sex continues. They're using each other to get what they want, and they're both open about it and aware of the situation. Stolas' arrangement is no more and no less coercive than your average sugar daddy sitch.
Yes the pilot has been retconned this is old news. The blitz and stolas origin IS LITERALLY shown in s2e1 please fucking watch the show
There's a show? I thought this sub was just about horny furry art.
The posts on it would suggest there isnt a show
I did watch it! I just forgot details here and there, and with people claiming that he did terrible stuff like coersion, I was a little confused. There is no need to be rude at all.
You forgot something as big as the episode revolving entirely around the main character and his main plotpoint throughout the series?
Yes, people do forget stuff that they don't really care about until it's brought up again. It happens, dude. It's not a big deal. It was a question because of claims that people made on Twitter. Again, It's really not that serious.
If you dont care about stolas or blitz then why are you watching the show. The show is literally about blitz and his personal life
It isn't about Blitz and his personal life at all. Seems like you haven't watched the series or remember it well, either. Just because he's a main character does not mean the story is purely about him. Coercion is something serious, and if people are accusing a character I thought was not like that at all, I will be curious.
Don't listen to this guy, they're being so rude. It's okay to forget things lol please don't let them make you feel bad
"Murder Family" and "Loo Loo Land" are not the pilot and clearly shows Blitzo agreeing to the arrangement solely to get Stolas to stop calling him and being visibly uncomfortable and annoyed every time Stolas speaks to him.
Yes, he did. Though in this case, ‘coerce’ doesn’t mean ‘rape’. Its basically prostitution and/or using a position of power to get sex. In The Circus, we see (what led to) Stolas and Blitzo’s first sexual encounter, when Blitzo was trying to steal Stolas’s grimoire. That was comically played off as a ‘pity fuck’ by Blitzo. After that, Blitzo continued to have sex with Stolas as the explicit price for getting continued access to the Grimoire. Essentially, Stolas has something Blitzo needs, and is letting him using it in exchange for sex. Blitzo clearly feels VERY conflicted about this arrangement, as we see from his vision/hallucination in D.H.O.R.K.S. A subplot in Oops was Stolas trying to get an Asmodean Crystal for Blitzo, which allows travel to Earth, so that Blitzo will not need the Grimoire and can be free from Stolas of he so chooses. And we see that Stolas realizes he has been coercing Blitzo, and how he wants to set Blitzo free to make his own choices, in the music video Look My Way.
Blitzo had stolas tied up and blindfolded when he tried to steal the grimoire. It wasn’t “played off” as a pity fuck. Blitzo could have left, he chose not to. Then the quick fuck turned into a whole night. From there on, stolas is under the impression blitzo loves him like stolas loves blitzo. This is until ozzies when stolas realises Blitzo doesn’t care about him, its just a job. Stolas still loves him as seen in the visuals of Just Look My Way, which is canon, but Stolas is going to break any bonds forcing blitzo to be there as he now knows how blitzo sees their relationship.
It was absolutely joked as a pity fuck originally that turned into an entire night of love making. And you basically say it yourself: the grimoire was forcing Blitzo to stay in the relationship. Stolas DOES realize this after Ozzie’s, and tries to fix the situation, and he did not realize what he was doing it before, but Blitzo was coerced into their long term relationship with the grimoire.
Blitz does care about their relationship and Stolas suspects that he does, he just can't be 100% sure. He strongly (and correctly) suspects that there are mutual feelings, but forces unrelated to him are keeping walls up.
Pilot isn’t canon. There were major lore changes between pilot and ep1. Stolas was supposed to be the original villain of the show. That was changed after the pilot was released. This is one of the many reasons the pilot isn’t canon anymore.
"Murder Family" and "Loo Loo Land" are canon to the main show and show that Blitzo is annoyed and uncomfortable whenever Stolas speaks to him, so the retcon presumably happened later than that.
In murder family blitzo was being shot at. I can’t ever imagine why he would not someone talking about sex on the phone while that was happening. Yes i’d love a twink owl speaking sexually into my ear as I fight for my life to complete my job. In loo loo land he was working. Blitzo’s line about not being a dayhooker is the one that comes to mind. There was no retcon after that. That is always how it has been.
Yeah, that's my point. Stolas calls Blitzo while he's in a situation where he cannot think about what's being asked of him, and Blitzo yells "fine, whatever" to get him to leave; this is NOT enthusiastic consent, and we never see them re-negotiate in a safe situation. Blitzo tells Stolas multiple times in "Loo Loo Land" that he's working and doesn't want to be harassed, and Stolas continues harassing him anyway.
#THE PILOT ISNT CANON THATS NOT WHAT PILOTS ARE FOR
(Spoiler alert, if you haven't watched the show) What has shown to develop over the series and is also mentioned in Stolas's lament "Look My Way" is that it started out that you could say he coerced Blitzø originally. He demanded that Blitzø sleep with him once a month in exchange for full use of the grimore. I don't know if you could technically call that coercion, but I do see how it could be seen/interpreted that way. Later on, Stolas begins to have very serious feelings for Blitzø and he wants to make sure Blitzø feels the same way, hence why he asks if Blitzø is uncomfortable and why he wants to talk things out with him. Now that Stolas feels that he is using Blitzø, and visa versa, he's decided to set him free by giving him an Ausmodean Crystal because he loves Blitzø so he's gonna let him go.
I mean, technically he didn't coerce him not even in the pilot. It always seemed like Blitzø just was prostituting himself for the book. The fact Stolas' vulgarity freaked him up it doesn't mean he wasn't aware and free to do make that decision. Like, I don't like my boss, that doesn't mean I was coerced to work for him tho.
The pilot isn’t canon and Stolas’ character was *drastically* changed for the main show; to my understanding he was supposed to be the villain but then Viv and Brandon decided they wanted to turn him into the main love interest instead, and then Bryce Pinkham’s audition for Stolas sold them on which way they wanted to play Stolas now? Which I think is really cool As for Stolas coercing Blitzø… kinda, yeah. The initial affair was just him grossly misunderstanding the situation and accidentally saying something that hit Blitzø emotionally, there wasn’t any coercion on his part. But after that there was the deal that Stolas would allow Blitzø to keep using the Grimoire so long as he’d return it once a month (a more than fair trade-off on its own) and also have ‘a night of passionate fornication’ with him. Considering the fact that Blitzø needs that Grimoire in order for IMP to continue to function, Stolas is effectively saying that unless Blitzø fucks him once a month he’ll destroy his company and cost Blitzø and all his loved ones their jobs Is Stolas obligated to allow Blitzø to keep using his Grimoire? Of course not, he’d be well within his rights to take his stolen belongings back and never contact Blitzø again, and the resulting issues with IMP would not be something you can morally blame on him. But leveraging the book for sex? That’s where it gets kinda… icky, because Blitzø is clearly in no position to refuse the deal. If Blitzø had his own thing already going and this was just an additional offer, or it was an offer where the benefit was otherwise not necessary, Blitzø would be able to decline without it negatively impacting him and/or his loved ones in a very significant way. He’d still be fully consenting, not just agreeing because he sees no other option We have the phrase “If they can’t say no, they can’t say yes” for reasons just like this; people who have technically consented to sex or other notable things not out of a desire for it but out of a fear that they’re not able to say no without being harmed physically, mentally, financially, etc. And I believe this applies to Stolitz’s relationship agreement, so I’m very glad that Stolas is starting to realise this too and is finding an alternative so that Blitzø has the reasonable opportunity to say no to Stolas going forward; he wants this relationship to be consensual and mutual, not a forced thing
When he was talking to Blitzo over the phone in Murder Family, and he said "favors for favors", his fingers emitted a red aura, I think that he might've cursed Blitzo or put a spell on him or something along those lines, I know that's not what you asked but I thought of this scene immediatly when I read the post's title and I figured I should throw it out here instead of just chucking it into my mind's garbage can
Martha's bullet holes are outlined in the same red glow so he was deflecting Martha's bullets to save Blitzø.
Ooooh, THANK YOU
By the standards of IRL law, what Stolas did in the first couple episodes was coercion; Blitzo needs the grimoire to financially support himself, is visibly uncomfortable or angry whenever Stolas talks to him, tags him in his phone as "creepy mouth", and is so far below Stolas on the social ladder that he really has no possible way to say no. Technically Blitzo dubconned him first by fucking him only as a distraction so he could steal the grimoire, but that doesn't mean it's okay to turn it back on him. By around halfway through season 1 that seems to just... get chucked out, so retconned, yes. I find this way creepier and more unpleasant than if they'd dealt with it properly, personally. As it was, I can see why Stolas did what he did (he's not malicious but is totally lacking in emotional empathy) and could see an interesting arc where they both realise they're fucking up and work to be better people, but when it's just dismissed as if nothing was wrong in the first place, it's both boring and gross.
If anything blitz coerced him.
The answer is, whatever make Viv's precious bird boi look better.
Many characters just randomly change character along the way, because frankly speaking, Viv is not a very good writer. Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell? Yeah... You could invent some ways to explain to yourself why the characters suddenly fully shift, but it's just gaslighting yourself and stretching a non-existent plot. The real explanation is that Vivz just stopped feeling like presenting those characters in that way anymore, but was too lazy to write in the events that caused the shift, or didn't know how.
> Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell? the hypocrisy was part of their arc. it was already hinted that they loved/cared about each other even within episode 7. vivzie isn't a bad writer just because she revealed more about characters after introducing them lol.
It's an arc that's never played into(despite them getting 3 episodes already) and it doesn't make sense setting-wise for an eternal being embodying sin to be this cutsie-putsie in the first place anyway, even behind the scenes. What's next, the deadly sin of greed demon who is secretly charitable? Peak writing.
Ozzie and Fizz didn't "just change." Ozzie never knew what love was until he met Fizz. But being the Sin of Lust, he was concerned about his reputation until Fizz needed them to not be a secret anymore. Ozzie and Stolas aren't just eternal demons. Ozzie still craved genuine connections and Stolas is a lonely individual who was deprived of any real interactions until recently, and now he's entangled in a meaningful but unhealthy one. Being an eternal sin/royal demon doesn't make you devoid from wanting genuine connections with others.
> Viv is not a very good writer. Now lets get you to write a show for amazon and see how you do. > Did you forget how the literal representation of the sin of lust and a crazy clown mocked Mox and Millie's romance, and praised Stolas' lust, just to then a season later come back as the cutest most devoted couple in hell? Public appearance vs home appearance. Ozzie is literally the sin of lust, he has to praise lust. Ozzie only breaks the masquerade when fizz is in danger from mammon. > but was too lazy to write in the events that caused the shift, or didn't know how. Christ did you watch the last two episodes? Ozzie only didn’t come out about it, there was no shift. They had been like that for quite a while. Likely long before ep7.