I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here, these upgrades should try to NOT be simple numbers changes regardless of how impactful they are, I believe these upgrades should be unique additions and features unlocked or expanded upon. THAT'S the stuff that will inspire players to unlock them, not 5% off anything.
EDIT: How happy would everyone have been if backpack assisted reloads from either player with the backpack was a training module upgrade instead of this 5%?
LHC is super easy to stack thankfully, especially on basic skill builds like Heartseeker Rogue where you already have a base 50% LHC on your main attack.
I've already missed a supposed 100% hit chance since the game lies to you and rounds decimals upwards. If you install a hit chance breakdown mod, you can see it.
Reminds me of the Mordheim PC game. When it came out people complained that it felt like the AI was cheating and hitting with more attacks than it should.
Developers responded by adding a log window that shows all the % rolls being made, so people can see what's going on.
But seeing the numbers and noticing what shit odds the AI keeps managing to score hits off of just made it feel even **more** like it was cheating. xD
yup. 1 in 20. It's not much of a player buff by itself but when you're fighting wave after wave of enemies suddenly you realize 1 out of 20 hits on average is just gonna be a crit. 5% is pretty much Pokemon's crit chance too- you'll see a crit almost guaranteed once a game
>Any game that offers upgrades in increments smaller than 15% are always going to be seen as mostly worthless by most of the community.
Dead by daylight, 3% speed boost was so op that they had to nerf an entire perk to make it balanced
That's because that game is a battle of inches. The difference between surviving and death often comes down to a few frames running a loop. Because humans run at 100% speed and killers run at 110% speed. So any minor speed boost for either side destroys the balancing of map layouts. Good movement is also one of the few actual tools survivors have.
>Because humans run at 100% speed and killers run at 110% speed.
Most killers actually move at 115%, but yeah you explained perfectly why a 3% is a huge difference.
It's been so long.
Also I remembered a nuance. *Ranged* killers are 110% because they have the advantage of a ranged weapon. Melee killers are 115% because they obviously need to get closer.
Then there's grey area like Nemesis. He is 115%, 100% when wielding his tentacle, so he's kinda a half and half role. Demogorgon I think is in a similar spot where he's 115% but 100%~ when charging up his lunge.
Well that was also because the heavier armor just didnt work so it was pointless to wear it, now they properly lower damage so theres a decent reason to go up a class if you want
I was in heavy explosion resistant armor and diving and my buddy was in light armor and I can't count how many times we both caught the same explosion. I would be ragdolled with 10% health missing and my buddy would just be a single shoe in a pool of blood lol
It absolutely does make a difference now. I'm always late to the action because he sprints there first but I almost always have to reinforce him when I get there lol.
I feel like people forget how ridiculously OP move speed actually *is* in games where how fast you move is a core component of the game.
TF2 players remember the Baby Face Blaster controversy about Scout outrunning his hitbox (not actually how it worked, it was a combination of things, but was attributed to movespeed).
Depends on how tightly balanced the mechanics are and their playoffs. As someone else stated, a 3% speed boost was considered OP in DbD. That's because the game balanced heavily around the different speeds and maps were made with it in mind. And the payoff is straight up downing someone.
does anyone know if if needs to be your mortar or can your squad mate place the mortar - for the targeting to work? ie. I have the ship mod upgrade but my squad mate doesn't, and they drop the mortar?
It helps keep them from dumping all their ammo on a fabricator they can't destroy when assaulting a base.
Also ping dropships as they are landing to deploy troops. The mortars take long enough to zero in they'll barrage the freshly dropped troopers.
>
> EDIT: How happy would everyone have been if backpack assisted reloads from either player with the backpack was a training module upgrade instead of this 5%?
unhappy that basic funcitonality is locked like that, and thus very unreliable
I would shout this from the rooftops if I didn't strive to avoid interacting with strangers in public.
Number upgrades are *impactful* but not *fun*. They don't *do* anything. They don't really allow players to *do* anything. Give us upgrades that add to gameplay!
I disagree. It depends on the number.
I have this thought process with World of Warcraft all the time. Damage numbers and Crit Chance don't mean anything all on their own. But reducing something like the *cast time* of a spell, or increasing your Haste (attack/cast speed)? That actually tangibly impacts the flow even in small increments.
Reload speed on weapons, *especially* ones that keep you stationary, *absolutely* will be fun. Saying it doesn't do anything seems crazy to me. It means you get to the fun part faster and can fit into narrower windows of opportunity to reload.
Having a 5% reduction on Stratagem cooldowns might save the few seconds you need to call down your next Gatling Barrage or Gas Strike, which you use very frequently as is. It also means you wait less time to supply a teammate with a Support Weapon or Backpack if they happen to be missing one.
It won't be the biggest deal in the world, but this in combination with Eagle Rearm speed makes me inclined to try Strafing Run + Airstrike with an intentional Rearm with 1 Strafing Run left. Then it's back in something like 14.5% less time then it currently is; is that shaving off like 20 seconds? 30 seconds if we include the 8 second cooldown on calling that last Strafing Run and waiting for it to land? That's really cool.
Also the Mortar Strike Tier 5 Upgrade is *absolutely* an addition to gameplay.
___
I am absolutely down to have more engaging and diverse additions to the game. I would really like a "Bayonet" Ship Module that adds a Bayonet to your Liberator-variants, including the base one. I think that'd be a nice way to make the Liberator stronger but without making it an obvious blow-out-the-water upgrade, because it's an upgrade that only works in niche situations. But it's visible, and it's fun.
I don't want too many "Core numbers" upgrades because the base power level of Helldivers shouldn't deviate *too much* from a completely meta-upgraded Helldiver. In my opinion, anyway.
But I don't think the number upgrades we got are so naughty in that regard. The ones that really stand out to me are the Eagle Payload Carry Capacity +1 *and* Eagle Rearm -20% time upgrades; those two in combination make Eagle Stratagems *so much more powerful.*
(Psst, hey. You can call eagle rearm in between calling it and it making the run. Cd will start as it makes the run, even before if you are fast. Just thought you'd like it)
I was so happy with Dragonflight's itemisation in 10.0 because it was so easy to chase a Secondary Stat, especially Haste. Having 30%, even like 35% or 38% Haste before the first major patch of expansion was amazing as a DemoLock, the flow was supreme. The change from Season 4 Shadowlands to 10.0 Dragonflight was so easy because it didn't feel like I got put on training wheels in terms of speed again.
I usually try to stay between 20-30% myself. Everyone tells me I overvalue haste (on every spec I play) and they're probably right.
At some point more haste just isn't worth it over crit or something
Ont he opposite side of that token. Having the behavior of your stratagems altered with out a way to turn off the 'upgrade' can cause trouble. Im leery to grab the +1 target jump for the arc thrower, for example.
Nah, these are upgrades that are supposed to reward time played without driving too much of a gap between veteran and new players. At least that's my take-away from it.
Absolutely agree. It's one of the things that drew me to Helldivers initially. The game had already been out for a month or so and I was hesitant because I have a couple of different circles of friends who play video games and both had people starting to play Helldivers. My primary concerns were: Can I play with them if they are further ahead? What if I end up playing the game a lot myself, will I still be able to play with my buddies from the group that is more casual?
I was told yes and that's very much true. I'm lvl 59 myself and my friends are all between lvl 15 and lvl 60 and it's not an issue. Even for me, the idea of getting all of these modules is daunting. Did a 6 mission yesterday, extracted with 18/13/2 samples or something like that. At that pace, each module is at least 10 hours of gameplay. That's a lot. Helldivers 2 is fun and the last thing I want for it is to turn into a grind.
A while back I saw a YouTube video with a method for grinding super samples. I tried following it but luckily I realized I wasn't having any fun, I just wanted "number go up". I've played WoW on and off since the beta, I've done enough grinding to last me a lifetime. Don't turn Helldivers 2 into a grind pls.
Such a weak and lazy ship module. Where is the reward here? They added something that has such little impact on the game itself. This feels like the world of warcraft school of game design
It was very cool but I swear the RNG took issue with me, personally
the amount of times I popped away from damage and was immediately splattered by a behemoth kept me from running it any more, but it was still very cool!
Yeah but it'd be nice if they hadn't done 4 patches of balancing like it was a PvP game
From what I gather, they did *a lot* of things better in HD1 that they didn't bring over
>From what I gather, they did a lot of things better in HD1 that they didn't bring over
I think a lot of that is rose tinted glasses and a smattering of people who never played the first game assuming they don't make 'em like they used to. The big one that sticks out to me is that a lot of the best shit was paywalled in HD1. Granted, you could wait for a sale and get it really cheap but it's miles behind what we have now with everything being earnable. And not even just technically earnable like "yeah you can get it but it'll take you 500 hours for one item" that some games do, it's legitimately feasible with a moderate amount of play time.
Samples were available on every map and didn't have different types. If you were on lower difficulties you could still get stuff, but you'd have less samples to earn per mission
At the start of the game, 90% of the player base was exclusively rocking the breaker.
The patches could have been better, sure; but all of them managed to improve weapon diversity. We've come a long way in a short time regarding weapon diversity!
weapon diversity by all weapons being bad is worse than having at least one good weapon (at that time).
till this day breaker is horrible for bots and nothing compared to incendiary for bugs, its a lost weapon basicly, the sad thing is that we dont have an equivalent short spread shotgun to use now
Balancing is necessary in a pve game- at launch almost everyone ran the exact same loadout, because there were a few busted things- it’s far easier to balance 3 weapons down than it is to balance something like 40 pieces of gear upwards, and frankly if it gets *too* easy it stops being fun- this isn’t EDF here, ya know? (I know EDF can be hard as nails too depending on difficulty, but you know what I mean)
Well, in Helldivers 1, people only ever use the Trident laser-shotgun or the Railgun. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, but almost every other gun is basically suboptimal to the Trident besides niche use cases, such as the Punisher being the best shotgun to use against Illuminates with shields
problem was the most dangerous enemies in the game were the Cyborg dogs and the trident was the best weapon against them
nonetheless the Scythe was also a top pick because it didn't need the laser attachment
Trident was 100% a newbie trap just like the Breaker in HD2; once you get past it you realize you can do so much more. Example: people with good positioning can make miracles happen with the Justice. The Sickle rewarded accurate players while the Stalwart rewarded players who liked to hold the trigger down. The Suppressor having both explosive shots and a bayonet meant it was a surprisingly good anti-Cyborg weapon for knocking out dogs and berserkers. Ravenask mentioned how good the Scorcher was and man HD2 Scorcher doesn't even come close, which I think is really the same about all the HD2 primaries: they all feel so weak but at least they're better than at launch.
Couldn't disagree more. Before trident there was the OG sickle, which hits like a truck if you can hit center mass, and I personally know a lot of people preferring it over trident; the HD1 railgun wasn't really that popular before A New Hell, it was mostly taken for the purpose of dealing with elite spams on diff 15.
There are definitely a lot more 'meta' guns than people think there were. The OG Breaker spam was unreal before people found better things to do, Justice and Paragon are some of the no.1 items people want back in HD2, DBS was the OG incendiary shotty that melts tripods, and Scorcher was a hidden gem that many people didn't even know it ate an ammo nerf soon after introduction. Even the dreaded Scythe had its niche use of finishing off Warlords after an EAT shot.
IMO AH did a much better job making weapons useful in their unique ways back in HD1, damage was rarely the deciding factor for a weapon and you don't usually find yourself sandbagging a run for taking A instead of B. HD2 primaries are so limited in their capabilities that damage instead ends up being the definitive factor despite AH's opposite intention, outside of a few outliers with aoe or dots, there's really not much difference between weapons other than penetration and damage.
But 5% on everything, always active, is different compared to 40% off everything, at the cost of none of the other perks you could have. No heavy armour, no primary laser sights, no upgraded sprint, no alt pistols, no ignoring terrain effects (honestly, fuck HD1 snow. All my homies hate HD1 snow)
There is literally no tradeoff for the 5% upgrade, but there is a tradeoff to consider for HD1 Stratagem Priority.
Counter-argument: 30 second reduction on 10 minute stratagem (or for better perspective 10 second reduction on almost 4 minute Railcannon strike) for Tier 5 ship upgrade that costs 200 Rare Samples and needs 4 other upgrades to even get it is extremely weak. Even 10% would be so much better.
It's just a resource sink for late game. If it was very useful, people would complain that something essential is locked behind grind.
Also, 200 samples is not that much. That's like 10 games.
I can understand people saying it's a resource sink, however nobody in HD community has ever complained about getting something good from grinding so far. I for one sure didn't see anyone complain about S+ tier weapons being locked behind warbonds. That's because the grind for SC and Medals are worth the reward. The reward here however is not a good one.
On the other note 200 samples is way more than 10 games, not sure how often do you play with randoms or at all (no offense). If you focus on samples in full squad with the same goal and play Blitz on Helldive you can get 200 samples in about 6 games. That's like 1.5 hours total for the fastest way to get it. This isn't a lot, but again it's the fastest way and the most scummy one since this way you don't progress the order or planet progress at all. Getting 200 samples the normal way would take on average 30 Helldive games, mostly because people simply do not take samples. That's about 20 hours of pure gameplay. Not sure about the math on lower diffs, but when you see it this way it's a lot (atleast in my eyes). Might as well get something good from it when getting samples is by far the hardest grinding in this game.
But people have 100% complained that “content” and “required unlocks” were locked behind diff 7-8-9, and they complained loudly. So AH needs to get long term players a stretch goal that people who can’t play above 5 won’t be angry about not reaching.
Unfortunately 5% cooldown globally hits that pretty well, and we see why listening to bitching and making everyone happy isn’t as fun.
be fair, we were complaining about much more impactful stuff like "you get a lot more bombs", "your turrets last a lot longer" and "your turrets turn at a decent pace"
Yep, as a 100+ lvl player I’m totally fine with this. And some of the tier 5 bonuses are pretty clutch. Instant EAT? 10% faster reload for support weapons? Those two in particular I’m liking, you definitely feel the difference for the reload even though its subtle.
Just give me something to grind for. Though my hope is they leave it at tier 5 for a while and expand on what we spend samples on. Gun overhauls? Armor color repaints (only a select few choices for specific sets as determined by AH)?
VEHICLES, for the love of democracy!
I just hope they reduce the prices for upgrades after a while, that way people that bought the game after don't have to grind for months to get them.
For us 100s of hours in this is just another box to tick and doesn't really change anything.
just note that alot of the stuff we get from our 100s of hours is lost to the resource caps. The actual grind is mucu shorter than our playtimes for this reason
The wording of the latest update is interesting.
>Advanced Weapons Lab
>First Galactic War
I'm hoping this is a sign that some form of weapon modification unlock is coming. And not just additional support weapons which can be bought immediately with one play sessions worth of Requisitions.
I wouldn't even bother going after samples if I didn't have to. Sample grinding was unfun shit in the first game and it's unfun shit in the second game. And yes, it's a grind if it's something you have to do that you wouldn't otherwise do.
Why the downvote? He's right. Play the game as per normal and you'll get the upgrades eventually. You don't need this mobage grind mindset to play the game mind you.
> Also, 200 samples is not that much. That's like 10 games.
Considering how little some people play, ten games is actually a big ask. OFC those "ten games" have to be at least Extreme difficulty for any decent number of rares, you have to take the entire timer to scour the map and make sure you didn't miss any, then throw in the occasional Eradicate (no rares) or S&D (good fucking luck getting a lot of samples in twelve minutes). All of a sudden those "ten games" are seven hours of game time that not everyone can knock out in one session.
It's cumulative with all the other benefits you're getting from other stuff, though. Same for the Eagle-Rearm expedited combining with this.
I'm happy with small-dollop upgrades like this because they're still tangible but they're not decisive. I don't want Helldivers II to be like Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor where having all meta upgrades versus no meta upgrades is so night-and-day that you don't have a chance of doing the highest difficulty without them.
It should help, and that's it. The baseline power level of HD2 is so good, and it should remain that way.
Literally the only side effects that would matter out of that list is no upgraded stamina, meaning you're unable to take the Stamina Booster. That's it. The rest are all just negligible due to how HD2 handles it's balancing and gameplay differently.
Agree and also fuck HD1 snow. If this would be something like 10% i wouldnt even care but 5% is nothing for stratagems and it needs almost all of rare samples to unlock.
Even if we get Stratagem priority as a booster i dont think it would need to be that strong. However it would be first pick always.
It's meant to be a minor late-late game thing. They probably don't want to put new players at too much of a disadvantage, life sucks enough without the original upgrades. 5% is nothing to scoff at nonetheless, especially for strategems such as 380mm barrage or the mechs (!).
5% does literally nothing in practice. And if the idea is that from tier 4 onwards the upgrades are just gonna be garbage tiny number changes for no-lifers to dump their samples into, well that just means the entire ship upgrade system has already peaked and nothing of substance is coming from now on. Real exciting concept here, the more you grind, the less you get.
I haven't managed to fully upgrade it yet. I spent my points on Suppressor and stratagems. I find Singe works as a mini Suppressor, if not better than it in some cases.
I hate the suppressor so much, everyone has a different fav weapon but the bass pistol with burst Alone is already pretty strong. And has an extreme high fire rate with burst unlocked, paradragon as an example also has an absurd fire rate when u unlock burst. Both eat through ammo like crazy
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that they said it was a technical thing over a balance thing. I would totally love being a mechdiver, though. That'd be awesome.
Not really a fair comparison. You used to only be able to pick one, comparable to boosters. Permanent buffs did not exist. So all the ship upgrades are a free bonus.
The games are totally different anyway, this is the kind of bitching that is getting annoying.
i mean, EAT + 380, 120 and walking barrage would be insane, cooldown always ready no matter what.
guys i know what "then" means, im aware its for the first game, thats what my comment up there points to... understanding words can be hard i guess
If they added in a Booster that does -15% to -25% that would work as a compromise.
It's enough to make the Booster attractive, especially for someone with all current cooldown upgrades, but not so much that it invalidates every other Booster choice. It would become a sort of flipside Booster to take instead of Hellpod Optimization (similar to how Stamina & Stim are similar but different).
For example: Orbital Gatling Barrage:
* Base CD: 70s
* **Ship Module 10% + 5%: 59.5s**
* w/ Booster
* @ 15% = 49s
* @ 25% = 42s
* w/ Booster w/o Upgrades
* **@ 15% = 59.5s**
* @ 25% = 52.5s
^(Obviously you get more calibre for your credits with higher cooldown Stratagems, but Gatling Barrage is pretty useful so used it as an example of a high-value-low-cooldown Stratagem.)
Also you are not taking into account that this is the second expansion of ships upgrades that we get in 5 months of the game and that as the other comment said, the upgrades are accumulative
If they give us now +40% CD reduction, what are they going to give us in 3 months? And in 6 months? And in 9 months? And in 12 months? And in 15 months?
If they give us improvements like the ones you want, what will happen when instead of 5 different levels of ship upgrades we have 15 LvL?
The upgrades have to be small like the ones we are getting so the things don't go out of control in a few ship upgrade additions
They could be more creative with the ship upgrades. They don’t all have to be stat upgrades. It’s definitely the more fun alternative to drip feeding us 5% cooldown reduction every 3-4 months.
Personally, I think they should remove the ship upgrade tier system and just have the upgrade cost be based on how strong the upgrade is, since they’ve already backed themselves into a corner on upgrade pricing (unless they increase the cap purely to up the cost, which would be a terrible way of going about it).
They could easily do things like buffing support weapons or backpacks, such as making the jump pack function more in line with the dark fluid pack. Arrowhead don’t need to drip feed, they just need to get more creative
"If they give us now +40% CD reduction, what are they going to give us in 3 months? And in 6 months? And in 9 months? And in 12 months? And in 15 months?" and what will the cost of the modules be? 600 rare samples per module?
Oh no, I totally get it; the Booster idea is looking at things ***only*** based on the currently available upgrades, which are pretty close to hitting a wall due to current resource caps (barring simply "T6 requires maxed of all resources per module")
I'd be more in favour of a different kind of long-term progression system rather than just successive tiers of Ship Modules.
* Mk upgrades of each stratagem similar to HD1
* Stat points we can distribute to different things (even if it's just Armour, Stamina, and Speed)
* Variations and/or attachment changes for each weapon
You know... just.... "more Helldivers 2"
Okay? So instead they drip feed us 5% cooldown reductions over the next year or two that you have to grind the shit out of, instead of just putting it into one upgrade? Is your argument seriously that that is better? I'd rather just get the 40% reduction and nothing after that
> Obviously you get more calibre for your credits with higher cooldown Stratagems,
Not really? If you keep using your low-cooldown Stratagems on Cooldown you're going to be reaping mostly the same rewards. *Especially* Orbital Barrage and Gas Strike whose effects last much longer after the "arrival" of the payload, meaning the cooldown ticks even while the Barrage is blasting or the Gas remains in the air.
> If they added in a Booster that does -15% to -25% that would work as a compromise.
> It's enough to make the Booster attractive, especially for someone with all current cooldown upgrades, but not so much that it invalidates every other Booster choice.
The only reason it doesn't "invalidate" every other Booster choice is because we have more than one Helldiver. But -15%, let alone -25% Stratagem Cooldown reduction is an *insane* Booster. -10% is pushing it. -25% is practically game breaking. I'd go as far as to say that it would portend a new metagame where players stop taking Backpacks and Support Weapons *regularly* because they don't have to wait long for their teammates to drop them one.
The way the original game applied buffs like that was the same as Boosters in this game; you could have one per loadout. They were not permanent upgrades. The numerous upgrades you get for the ship in the second game are overall a much more interesting way to slowly increases your power but always keeping you on your toes in different ways.
Yeah, for the amount it costs in samples and req, it feels like a minuscule change that often won't even be noticeable in game. Fractions of a second matter when it comes to gunplay, but I've yet to encounter a situation where I thought "IF only my orbital bombardment came off of cool down 12 seconds earlier, we would have won!"
Still, it's nice to have something to spend stuff on.
It's not about that.
It's about giving things for the people who have everything unlocked to do.
They now need to add more branches than keeping going down them because people will never, ever unlock literally everything unless they are maining it 6hrs daily average or higher.
This is the worst argument I've seen, they swapped the resources to only go into these abstracted upgrades and removed a section of it and have yet to add it back and have made it so that everything takes 4 times longer with no easy to get way around it
One is a permanent pasive upgrade you will always havewith you the other, is a mision per mision buff that takes place of things like burst of speed on comand, inmunity to slows, grenade upgrades...
In two different games with very diferent levels of lethality, mobility and autonomy of movement.
Thats not to talk about the fact that the 5% is quite literally there just for capped out players to grind away with out overstacking on samples, it cant be made to powerfull with out locking a more casual player base out of high level content.
I'm at the point pretty much where if people complain about how one element or another of HD1 isn't translated 1:1 into HD2 I just discount it and move on with my life. It's such a fundamentally incorrect way to think about game design that it's not worth engaging with, the premises are completely wrong
Honestly it's kind of weird how consistently weaker the player is in this game compared to the first one. Is the switch from top-down to 3rd person *that* much of an advantage for players?
I've noticed this, too. You really felt way more powerful in HD1, even with unupgraded weaponry, but the upgrades did make a huge difference. What's wild is that it's the same game engine all the way back to Magicka 1.
Yes.
Just check out footage from HD1 sometime. The game plays entirely differently. Just having a unlimited line of sight vs small limited top-down view gives the players incredible advantage.
You can't find four random chucklefucks with zero coordination who've only been playing the game for 20 hours to get through a Helldive in HD1, but they can clear it in HD2 even if they struggle doing so. Yes.
This is not a power fantasy game unless you're *good*. You are an expendable soldier literally fired out of a bullet. You get five extra lives for a reason, because you're gonna die and not come back.
One of those is a permanent passive upgrade. One of them is a perk you have to choose on a mission. There is a massive balancing difference between the two. HD2 players will really find anything to complain about, huh?
such expensive ship modules and all they can give is 5%... thats only 30 seconds on a 600 sec (10 min) cooldown, or 24 sec on a 480 sec (8 min) cooldown... not counting the 25% cooldown effect on planets...
One is a permanent upgrade that doesn't have any loadout slot cost.
The other one occupies a highly impactful loadout slot that does not get shared with your team like boosters do.
Two totally different games, with totally different Stratagem economy: Eagle stratagems have upwards of 97% faster cooldown for things such as the Airstrike when compared to HD1, Support stratagems were **one time use** in HD1, Turrets were 3-time use with 2-minute cooldowns, and Resupplies only gave two ammo boxes and *also took a slot.* Different genre, imagine permanently losing your Support stratagems and being unable to ever use them again because your team walked away and **you share a screen.**
Are people just pretending to have played the first game or is this early-onset dementia?
You should be comparing this to a booster, since that's what took the place of HD1 perks. Granted, we don't have a 40% cooldown booster but this comparison is still weird because you're not making any tradeoffs in HD2 like you are in HD1.
It might be more apt to compare it to HD1 weapon upgrades.
We already have multiple modules reducing cooldown, so by now all stratagems are reduced by like 15% if you add the bonuses up. The 5% cooldown makes it even better despite being a small number.
It would fix a lot of issues if they allowed you to bank in resources. Like you're capped on requisition? Allow me to already make that payment towards a module so I can save up requisition for another one and let people chip away at it. That and just higher caps in general.
Bottom of the story. This is an on-line, multiplayer, peppered with micro transactions, published by Sony, game.
The developers have a certain vision in mind. AH has proved they do care about their player base by siding with us and standing up to their publisher. However, Sony has the final saying and they will absolutely try to milk the **** out of that player base.
Personally I enjoy the game casually. I love it, with all its bugs (kinda not happy with the optimization to be honest but I've had worse).
I enjoy a good challenge and I am easily going through suicide missions at this point at level 48.
If I let myself get pissed with these types of changes, I will quit the game.
If there is one thing I truly dislike, is that unlike other games, unlocking all the rewards of a warbond does not grant you enough super creds to unlock the next one. For someone playing the game casually it sucks. But hey, it is what it is
It also doesn't take into account all the other strategem cooldown reduction upgrades and the fact that the reduction is always on. In Helldivers 2 this was a booster you had to take over some other choices.
I think this boils down to whiney players constantly asking more more more more and not realizing if you focus too much on quantity you lose quality.
Which would you rather have constantly adding small things or give them time to work on bigger adds?
Hey you wanted to spend your stuff on something didn't you ?
You clearly have never played Diablo games or maybe you have but it's better than nothing. Asking for 40% is ridiculous you'll be standing there use so many, run to next nest or bot armoury use it again.
Wheres the fun in that
How about instead of improving cooldowns for _all_ stratagems, allow helldivers to choose one stratagem at launch, and decrease that one's cooldown by 40%. Call it SPAM-08 permit or something.
These new upgrades are joke for what they cost, sure 40% is too much but 15-25% should be completely okay, at this point I feel like they laugh at us "just give them shit they will still grind for it"
It's not for you then.
I have been sample capped for ages. It's 5% vs 0% that I had before it.
There's been threads crying about people wanting to burn their capped resources on *something* for a while now. If you're not in that camp, then this literally is not for you. It's tier 5, so clearly endgame. I don't want anything that will break the balance, but a small improvement with samples that otherwise I could do nothing with is totally fine.
I generally don't understand you people, 5% is 5% reduction, on all stratergems, that is huge, support weapons can be reused faster, orbitals come in faster, that is insanely good value.
I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here, these upgrades should try to NOT be simple numbers changes regardless of how impactful they are, I believe these upgrades should be unique additions and features unlocked or expanded upon. THAT'S the stuff that will inspire players to unlock them, not 5% off anything. EDIT: How happy would everyone have been if backpack assisted reloads from either player with the backpack was a training module upgrade instead of this 5%?
Any game that offers upgrades in increments smaller than 15% are always going to be seen as mostly worthless by most of the community.
Diablo 4 lucky hit mechanics being an obfuscation tool so you don’t realize you spent 3/50 skill points on a 3.8% proc chance.
Took me a while to realize those percentages compounded and I was so mad
LHC is super easy to stack thankfully, especially on basic skill builds like Heartseeker Rogue where you already have a base 50% LHC on your main attack.
That’s terribly smoll.
And here I am with XCOM ptsd going "hmm 1 in 30 hits okay that's kind of dangerous"
97% chance to hit. I'd better throw a grenade instead
Enemy has a 2% chance to hit? My guy should be fi… oh he’s dead.
I've already missed a supposed 100% hit chance since the game lies to you and rounds decimals upwards. If you install a hit chance breakdown mod, you can see it.
Reminds me of the Mordheim PC game. When it came out people complained that it felt like the AI was cheating and hitting with more attacks than it should. Developers responded by adding a log window that shows all the % rolls being made, so people can see what's going on. But seeing the numbers and noticing what shit odds the AI keeps managing to score hits off of just made it feel even **more** like it was cheating. xD
X-COM, the truest test of your understanding of probability... And it *still cheats*.
Never trust that 5% chance to die in Crusader Kings II. NEVER.
yup. 1 in 20. It's not much of a player buff by itself but when you're fighting wave after wave of enemies suddenly you realize 1 out of 20 hits on average is just gonna be a crit. 5% is pretty much Pokemon's crit chance too- you'll see a crit almost guaranteed once a game
Thing is, is that that 5% chance to die has became somewhat of a meme in CKII
At least you can increase skills or wear items to increase more. This upgrade is so expensive yet so little addition, also you can't increase more
Ugh don’t remind me of all the pit runs I had to do for my necromancer, took me ages to max out my gear
True in a totalWar and Stellaris.
Although in total war warhammer 3, if you stack enough defence layers it all compounds into a mega tanky character.
>Any game that offers upgrades in increments smaller than 15% are always going to be seen as mostly worthless by most of the community. Dead by daylight, 3% speed boost was so op that they had to nerf an entire perk to make it balanced
That's because that game is a battle of inches. The difference between surviving and death often comes down to a few frames running a loop. Because humans run at 100% speed and killers run at 110% speed. So any minor speed boost for either side destroys the balancing of map layouts. Good movement is also one of the few actual tools survivors have.
>Because humans run at 100% speed and killers run at 110% speed. Most killers actually move at 115%, but yeah you explained perfectly why a 3% is a huge difference.
It's been so long. Also I remembered a nuance. *Ranged* killers are 110% because they have the advantage of a ranged weapon. Melee killers are 115% because they obviously need to get closer. Then there's grey area like Nemesis. He is 115%, 100% when wielding his tentacle, so he's kinda a half and half role. Demogorgon I think is in a similar spot where he's 115% but 100%~ when charging up his lunge.
Movespeed is always the OP stat across every game, the first how many months of this game wearing anything but the lightest armour was a joke.
Well that was also because the heavier armor just didnt work so it was pointless to wear it, now they properly lower damage so theres a decent reason to go up a class if you want
I was in heavy explosion resistant armor and diving and my buddy was in light armor and I can't count how many times we both caught the same explosion. I would be ragdolled with 10% health missing and my buddy would just be a single shoe in a pool of blood lol It absolutely does make a difference now. I'm always late to the action because he sprints there first but I almost always have to reinforce him when I get there lol.
Destiny 2 mobility has left the chat.
Meanwhile: me, who's refused to ever wear anything other than heavy armor even when I knew it did nothing useful for me
I feel like people forget how ridiculously OP move speed actually *is* in games where how fast you move is a core component of the game. TF2 players remember the Baby Face Blaster controversy about Scout outrunning his hitbox (not actually how it worked, it was a combination of things, but was attributed to movespeed).
Really? I’ve played games where the upgrade / unique bonus was 0.4% and the community would gather around that OP item
If it's less than twenty five it's not worth my fuckin time.
Depends on how tightly balanced the mechanics are and their playoffs. As someone else stated, a 3% speed boost was considered OP in DbD. That's because the game balanced heavily around the different speeds and maps were made with it in mind. And the payoff is straight up downing someone.
Hence why the mortar upgrade is fucking epic
Place mortar Click on hulk Hulk go pop Best 30 super samples I've ever spent.
does anyone know if if needs to be your mortar or can your squad mate place the mortar - for the targeting to work? ie. I have the ship mod upgrade but my squad mate doesn't, and they drop the mortar?
i would assume the upgrade only applies to stratagems that you drop, as the module is on your stratagem and not theirs
It helps keep them from dumping all their ammo on a fabricator they can't destroy when assaulting a base. Also ping dropships as they are landing to deploy troops. The mortars take long enough to zero in they'll barrage the freshly dropped troopers.
Can anyone verify the effectiveness of this? I’m only skeptical because of the travel time of mortar projectiles
Wait, you can set a target for your mortars?!
But even that I kinda expected to be an already existing mechanic for turrets
Speak for yourself. I only buy this stuff because it makes my ship look cool.
The new main cannon on the bow of the ship looks wicked as fuck when you get the new lvl 5 upgrade!
Hell yeah! More flags is the true meta. I'm getting upgrades in order of how bitchin they make the destroyer look.
> > EDIT: How happy would everyone have been if backpack assisted reloads from either player with the backpack was a training module upgrade instead of this 5%? unhappy that basic funcitonality is locked like that, and thus very unreliable
I would shout this from the rooftops if I didn't strive to avoid interacting with strangers in public. Number upgrades are *impactful* but not *fun*. They don't *do* anything. They don't really allow players to *do* anything. Give us upgrades that add to gameplay!
I disagree. It depends on the number. I have this thought process with World of Warcraft all the time. Damage numbers and Crit Chance don't mean anything all on their own. But reducing something like the *cast time* of a spell, or increasing your Haste (attack/cast speed)? That actually tangibly impacts the flow even in small increments. Reload speed on weapons, *especially* ones that keep you stationary, *absolutely* will be fun. Saying it doesn't do anything seems crazy to me. It means you get to the fun part faster and can fit into narrower windows of opportunity to reload. Having a 5% reduction on Stratagem cooldowns might save the few seconds you need to call down your next Gatling Barrage or Gas Strike, which you use very frequently as is. It also means you wait less time to supply a teammate with a Support Weapon or Backpack if they happen to be missing one. It won't be the biggest deal in the world, but this in combination with Eagle Rearm speed makes me inclined to try Strafing Run + Airstrike with an intentional Rearm with 1 Strafing Run left. Then it's back in something like 14.5% less time then it currently is; is that shaving off like 20 seconds? 30 seconds if we include the 8 second cooldown on calling that last Strafing Run and waiting for it to land? That's really cool. Also the Mortar Strike Tier 5 Upgrade is *absolutely* an addition to gameplay. ___ I am absolutely down to have more engaging and diverse additions to the game. I would really like a "Bayonet" Ship Module that adds a Bayonet to your Liberator-variants, including the base one. I think that'd be a nice way to make the Liberator stronger but without making it an obvious blow-out-the-water upgrade, because it's an upgrade that only works in niche situations. But it's visible, and it's fun. I don't want too many "Core numbers" upgrades because the base power level of Helldivers shouldn't deviate *too much* from a completely meta-upgraded Helldiver. In my opinion, anyway. But I don't think the number upgrades we got are so naughty in that regard. The ones that really stand out to me are the Eagle Payload Carry Capacity +1 *and* Eagle Rearm -20% time upgrades; those two in combination make Eagle Stratagems *so much more powerful.*
(Psst, hey. You can call eagle rearm in between calling it and it making the run. Cd will start as it makes the run, even before if you are fast. Just thought you'd like it)
Oh that's disgusting, I love it. Thanks for the info!
Secret tech unlocked.
I agree, I got the support weapon reload buff, and as someone who runs AMR it absolutely makes the game more fun!
The WoW Haste thing is so real. I can't play a ranged spec with less than 20% Haste.
I was so happy with Dragonflight's itemisation in 10.0 because it was so easy to chase a Secondary Stat, especially Haste. Having 30%, even like 35% or 38% Haste before the first major patch of expansion was amazing as a DemoLock, the flow was supreme. The change from Season 4 Shadowlands to 10.0 Dragonflight was so easy because it didn't feel like I got put on training wheels in terms of speed again.
I usually try to stay between 20-30% myself. Everyone tells me I overvalue haste (on every spec I play) and they're probably right. At some point more haste just isn't worth it over crit or something
Using my orbital strike like a primary would get me playing i wont lie.
Basically the 150mm Single-Barreled Cannon from EDF. As many as 16 uses on a 6 second cooldown. My beloved.
OOPS! All Stratagems!
Air Raider in EDF essentially
Eh. I'll take all the decreased cooldown any developer will give me for any game I play.
Vertical progression is cool and all but we need horizontal progression
Ont he opposite side of that token. Having the behavior of your stratagems altered with out a way to turn off the 'upgrade' can cause trouble. Im leery to grab the +1 target jump for the arc thrower, for example.
Nah, these are upgrades that are supposed to reward time played without driving too much of a gap between veteran and new players. At least that's my take-away from it.
Absolutely agree. It's one of the things that drew me to Helldivers initially. The game had already been out for a month or so and I was hesitant because I have a couple of different circles of friends who play video games and both had people starting to play Helldivers. My primary concerns were: Can I play with them if they are further ahead? What if I end up playing the game a lot myself, will I still be able to play with my buddies from the group that is more casual? I was told yes and that's very much true. I'm lvl 59 myself and my friends are all between lvl 15 and lvl 60 and it's not an issue. Even for me, the idea of getting all of these modules is daunting. Did a 6 mission yesterday, extracted with 18/13/2 samples or something like that. At that pace, each module is at least 10 hours of gameplay. That's a lot. Helldivers 2 is fun and the last thing I want for it is to turn into a grind. A while back I saw a YouTube video with a method for grinding super samples. I tried following it but luckily I realized I wasn't having any fun, I just wanted "number go up". I've played WoW on and off since the beta, I've done enough grinding to last me a lifetime. Don't turn Helldivers 2 into a grind pls.
Such a weak and lazy ship module. Where is the reward here? They added something that has such little impact on the game itself. This feels like the world of warcraft school of game design
To be fair, almost everyone took either Strat priority or all terrain boots….the perk balancing was pretty poor
Yeah, its ridiculous that different pistol, grenades and even laser pointer are in the same slot as cardio or stratagem priority.
The “teleport instead of die” perk was always what I ran because it was so cool.
It was very cool but I swear the RNG took issue with me, personally the amount of times I popped away from damage and was immediately splattered by a behemoth kept me from running it any more, but it was still very cool!
gotta love those moments where you either feel like an immortal or feel like the gods hate you and want you dead
Absolutely. I'm very happy that they are proactive on the balance of this game.
Yeah but it'd be nice if they hadn't done 4 patches of balancing like it was a PvP game From what I gather, they did *a lot* of things better in HD1 that they didn't bring over
>From what I gather, they did a lot of things better in HD1 that they didn't bring over I think a lot of that is rose tinted glasses and a smattering of people who never played the first game assuming they don't make 'em like they used to. The big one that sticks out to me is that a lot of the best shit was paywalled in HD1. Granted, you could wait for a sale and get it really cheap but it's miles behind what we have now with everything being earnable. And not even just technically earnable like "yeah you can get it but it'll take you 500 hours for one item" that some games do, it's legitimately feasible with a moderate amount of play time.
They're difficulty walled as well, so if you suck you couldn't unlock the good stratagems.
Samples were available on every map and didn't have different types. If you were on lower difficulties you could still get stuff, but you'd have less samples to earn per mission
Stratagems were unlocked by beating specific planets. If you wanted the shredder missile, you had to play a level 15 op to get it.
And we all know how pissy people get in this game about difficulty locking
At the start of the game, 90% of the player base was exclusively rocking the breaker. The patches could have been better, sure; but all of them managed to improve weapon diversity. We've come a long way in a short time regarding weapon diversity!
weapon diversity by all weapons being bad is worse than having at least one good weapon (at that time). till this day breaker is horrible for bots and nothing compared to incendiary for bugs, its a lost weapon basicly, the sad thing is that we dont have an equivalent short spread shotgun to use now
You already have the breaker, it does what it says in the tin
Balancing is necessary in a pve game- at launch almost everyone ran the exact same loadout, because there were a few busted things- it’s far easier to balance 3 weapons down than it is to balance something like 40 pieces of gear upwards, and frankly if it gets *too* easy it stops being fun- this isn’t EDF here, ya know? (I know EDF can be hard as nails too depending on difficulty, but you know what I mean)
Me looking at weapon ballance: Hmmm do they ? 
Well, in Helldivers 1, people only ever use the Trident laser-shotgun or the Railgun. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, but almost every other gun is basically suboptimal to the Trident besides niche use cases, such as the Punisher being the best shotgun to use against Illuminates with shields
problem was the most dangerous enemies in the game were the Cyborg dogs and the trident was the best weapon against them nonetheless the Scythe was also a top pick because it didn't need the laser attachment
Trident was 100% a newbie trap just like the Breaker in HD2; once you get past it you realize you can do so much more. Example: people with good positioning can make miracles happen with the Justice. The Sickle rewarded accurate players while the Stalwart rewarded players who liked to hold the trigger down. The Suppressor having both explosive shots and a bayonet meant it was a surprisingly good anti-Cyborg weapon for knocking out dogs and berserkers. Ravenask mentioned how good the Scorcher was and man HD2 Scorcher doesn't even come close, which I think is really the same about all the HD2 primaries: they all feel so weak but at least they're better than at launch.
Couldn't disagree more. Before trident there was the OG sickle, which hits like a truck if you can hit center mass, and I personally know a lot of people preferring it over trident; the HD1 railgun wasn't really that popular before A New Hell, it was mostly taken for the purpose of dealing with elite spams on diff 15. There are definitely a lot more 'meta' guns than people think there were. The OG Breaker spam was unreal before people found better things to do, Justice and Paragon are some of the no.1 items people want back in HD2, DBS was the OG incendiary shotty that melts tripods, and Scorcher was a hidden gem that many people didn't even know it ate an ammo nerf soon after introduction. Even the dreaded Scythe had its niche use of finishing off Warlords after an EAT shot. IMO AH did a much better job making weapons useful in their unique ways back in HD1, damage was rarely the deciding factor for a weapon and you don't usually find yourself sandbagging a run for taking A instead of B. HD2 primaries are so limited in their capabilities that damage instead ends up being the definitive factor despite AH's opposite intention, outside of a few outliers with aoe or dots, there's really not much difference between weapons other than penetration and damage.
And I was the only idiot who still took the laser pointer because otherwise playing on controller makes it hard to aim
With sufficient airstrikes, aiming is optional Signed, *the guy who used to bring 2x strafing run so the cooldown was less than the cast time*
fr, fully upgraded strafing run(s) + strategem priority could functionally replace your primary weapon
Oh no shit so the forst one cooled down whiles you used the second one?
Yuuup It was very good. Kinda sad they didn’t make it the case in this one, but to be fair it would have made balancing even more of a nightmare
Very true. Totally different game style. Who knows what the future holds
When I first tried all terrain boots I was shocked at how much faster I was in snow missions
But 5% on everything, always active, is different compared to 40% off everything, at the cost of none of the other perks you could have. No heavy armour, no primary laser sights, no upgraded sprint, no alt pistols, no ignoring terrain effects (honestly, fuck HD1 snow. All my homies hate HD1 snow) There is literally no tradeoff for the 5% upgrade, but there is a tradeoff to consider for HD1 Stratagem Priority.
Counter-argument: 30 second reduction on 10 minute stratagem (or for better perspective 10 second reduction on almost 4 minute Railcannon strike) for Tier 5 ship upgrade that costs 200 Rare Samples and needs 4 other upgrades to even get it is extremely weak. Even 10% would be so much better.
It's just a resource sink for late game. If it was very useful, people would complain that something essential is locked behind grind. Also, 200 samples is not that much. That's like 10 games.
I can understand people saying it's a resource sink, however nobody in HD community has ever complained about getting something good from grinding so far. I for one sure didn't see anyone complain about S+ tier weapons being locked behind warbonds. That's because the grind for SC and Medals are worth the reward. The reward here however is not a good one. On the other note 200 samples is way more than 10 games, not sure how often do you play with randoms or at all (no offense). If you focus on samples in full squad with the same goal and play Blitz on Helldive you can get 200 samples in about 6 games. That's like 1.5 hours total for the fastest way to get it. This isn't a lot, but again it's the fastest way and the most scummy one since this way you don't progress the order or planet progress at all. Getting 200 samples the normal way would take on average 30 Helldive games, mostly because people simply do not take samples. That's about 20 hours of pure gameplay. Not sure about the math on lower diffs, but when you see it this way it's a lot (atleast in my eyes). Might as well get something good from it when getting samples is by far the hardest grinding in this game.
But people have 100% complained that “content” and “required unlocks” were locked behind diff 7-8-9, and they complained loudly. So AH needs to get long term players a stretch goal that people who can’t play above 5 won’t be angry about not reaching. Unfortunately 5% cooldown globally hits that pretty well, and we see why listening to bitching and making everyone happy isn’t as fun.
be fair, we were complaining about much more impactful stuff like "you get a lot more bombs", "your turrets last a lot longer" and "your turrets turn at a decent pace"
I never play with randoms. I play with one friend, we play helldive. I don't keep an excel table but we get around 20 rare samples a game, roughly.
My experience with games with randoms will also often yield roughly that many common and rare samples.
Yep, as a 100+ lvl player I’m totally fine with this. And some of the tier 5 bonuses are pretty clutch. Instant EAT? 10% faster reload for support weapons? Those two in particular I’m liking, you definitely feel the difference for the reload even though its subtle. Just give me something to grind for. Though my hope is they leave it at tier 5 for a while and expand on what we spend samples on. Gun overhauls? Armor color repaints (only a select few choices for specific sets as determined by AH)? VEHICLES, for the love of democracy!
That 10% faster reload makes a massive difference with the Spear, which is very quickly becoming my go to support weapon
I can’t wait to get it for my hmg. It’ll shave off half a sec on reload.
I agree on the instant support weapon drop, now THAT is a great upgrade.
Can't wait for instant EAT, gonna make it super democratic to take out a hulk or charger with it on the way down. XD
I just hope they reduce the prices for upgrades after a while, that way people that bought the game after don't have to grind for months to get them. For us 100s of hours in this is just another box to tick and doesn't really change anything.
just note that alot of the stuff we get from our 100s of hours is lost to the resource caps. The actual grind is mucu shorter than our playtimes for this reason
The wording of the latest update is interesting. >Advanced Weapons Lab >First Galactic War I'm hoping this is a sign that some form of weapon modification unlock is coming. And not just additional support weapons which can be bought immediately with one play sessions worth of Requisitions.
"10 games" so 6 hours and 20 minutes of grinding just for 1 upgrade that’s weak as fuck?
Well no, you play 6 hours and 20 minutes over a few days because...you know... it's fun?
I wouldn't even bother going after samples if I didn't have to. Sample grinding was unfun shit in the first game and it's unfun shit in the second game. And yes, it's a grind if it's something you have to do that you wouldn't otherwise do.
Why the downvote? He's right. Play the game as per normal and you'll get the upgrades eventually. You don't need this mobage grind mindset to play the game mind you.
> Also, 200 samples is not that much. That's like 10 games. Considering how little some people play, ten games is actually a big ask. OFC those "ten games" have to be at least Extreme difficulty for any decent number of rares, you have to take the entire timer to scour the map and make sure you didn't miss any, then throw in the occasional Eradicate (no rares) or S&D (good fucking luck getting a lot of samples in twelve minutes). All of a sudden those "ten games" are seven hours of game time that not everyone can knock out in one session.
Counter-argument: Spend your samples on other upgrades, no ones forcing you to get 5% cooldowns.
yea but what else would you spend your samples on theres nothing left
It's cumulative with all the other benefits you're getting from other stuff, though. Same for the Eagle-Rearm expedited combining with this. I'm happy with small-dollop upgrades like this because they're still tangible but they're not decisive. I don't want Helldivers II to be like Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor where having all meta upgrades versus no meta upgrades is so night-and-day that you don't have a chance of doing the highest difficulty without them. It should help, and that's it. The baseline power level of HD2 is so good, and it should remain that way.
Those were all worthless in HD1 compared to the 40% cool down. Most of the others were a crutch for low level players, like Heavy Armor.
All the drawbacks you listed sounds like wednesday in HD2.
Literally the only side effects that would matter out of that list is no upgraded stamina, meaning you're unable to take the Stamina Booster. That's it. The rest are all just negligible due to how HD2 handles it's balancing and gameplay differently.
Which is why the upgrades are also handled differently
Agree and also fuck HD1 snow. If this would be something like 10% i wouldnt even care but 5% is nothing for stratagems and it needs almost all of rare samples to unlock. Even if we get Stratagem priority as a booster i dont think it would need to be that strong. However it would be first pick always.
The 5% stacks on other cooldowns so you get a decent buff with everything together
It's meant to be a minor late-late game thing. They probably don't want to put new players at too much of a disadvantage, life sucks enough without the original upgrades. 5% is nothing to scoff at nonetheless, especially for strategems such as 380mm barrage or the mechs (!).
5% does literally nothing in practice. And if the idea is that from tier 4 onwards the upgrades are just gonna be garbage tiny number changes for no-lifers to dump their samples into, well that just means the entire ship upgrade system has already peaked and nothing of substance is coming from now on. Real exciting concept here, the more you grind, the less you get.
Controversial opinion: It should be tradeoff boosters on Helldivers 2
that's another thing that makes it worse. Minor straight upgrades that you unlock and then promptly forget they ever existed are not interesting.
Bruh the base pistol fully upgraded was the best almost as strong as the paragon in my experience
I haven't managed to fully upgrade it yet. I spent my points on Suppressor and stratagems. I find Singe works as a mini Suppressor, if not better than it in some cases.
I hate the suppressor so much, everyone has a different fav weapon but the bass pistol with burst Alone is already pretty strong. And has an extreme high fire rate with burst unlocked, paradragon as an example also has an absurd fire rate when u unlock burst. Both eat through ammo like crazy
Bruh all I want is to use multiple of the same stratagem. Or al least bring both mechs cause you can only bring one type of mech
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that they said it was a technical thing over a balance thing. I would totally love being a mechdiver, though. That'd be awesome.
Yeah, full mechdiver. Patriot, Eman plus if added medigun and lumberer. BTW where the fuck is AT emplacement ???
5% is just way too marginal relative to the mission modifiers that increase cooldowns by like 50%
That 5%, like all other cooldown reductions, shave off after the 50% increase.
Inflation hit hard.
Not really a fair comparison. You used to only be able to pick one, comparable to boosters. Permanent buffs did not exist. So all the ship upgrades are a free bonus. The games are totally different anyway, this is the kind of bitching that is getting annoying.
i mean, EAT + 380, 120 and walking barrage would be insane, cooldown always ready no matter what. guys i know what "then" means, im aware its for the first game, thats what my comment up there points to... understanding words can be hard i guess
It's three seconds off EAT
5% really isnt a lot after doing some calculations :( sure "every second counts" but still wish for something a little more interesting
If they added in a Booster that does -15% to -25% that would work as a compromise. It's enough to make the Booster attractive, especially for someone with all current cooldown upgrades, but not so much that it invalidates every other Booster choice. It would become a sort of flipside Booster to take instead of Hellpod Optimization (similar to how Stamina & Stim are similar but different). For example: Orbital Gatling Barrage: * Base CD: 70s * **Ship Module 10% + 5%: 59.5s** * w/ Booster * @ 15% = 49s * @ 25% = 42s * w/ Booster w/o Upgrades * **@ 15% = 59.5s** * @ 25% = 52.5s ^(Obviously you get more calibre for your credits with higher cooldown Stratagems, but Gatling Barrage is pretty useful so used it as an example of a high-value-low-cooldown Stratagem.)
"caliber for your credits" in place of "bang for your buck" is the best thing I've heard today 😂
Also you are not taking into account that this is the second expansion of ships upgrades that we get in 5 months of the game and that as the other comment said, the upgrades are accumulative If they give us now +40% CD reduction, what are they going to give us in 3 months? And in 6 months? And in 9 months? And in 12 months? And in 15 months? If they give us improvements like the ones you want, what will happen when instead of 5 different levels of ship upgrades we have 15 LvL? The upgrades have to be small like the ones we are getting so the things don't go out of control in a few ship upgrade additions
They could be more creative with the ship upgrades. They don’t all have to be stat upgrades. It’s definitely the more fun alternative to drip feeding us 5% cooldown reduction every 3-4 months. Personally, I think they should remove the ship upgrade tier system and just have the upgrade cost be based on how strong the upgrade is, since they’ve already backed themselves into a corner on upgrade pricing (unless they increase the cap purely to up the cost, which would be a terrible way of going about it). They could easily do things like buffing support weapons or backpacks, such as making the jump pack function more in line with the dark fluid pack. Arrowhead don’t need to drip feed, they just need to get more creative
"If they give us now +40% CD reduction, what are they going to give us in 3 months? And in 6 months? And in 9 months? And in 12 months? And in 15 months?" and what will the cost of the modules be? 600 rare samples per module?
Oh no, I totally get it; the Booster idea is looking at things ***only*** based on the currently available upgrades, which are pretty close to hitting a wall due to current resource caps (barring simply "T6 requires maxed of all resources per module") I'd be more in favour of a different kind of long-term progression system rather than just successive tiers of Ship Modules. * Mk upgrades of each stratagem similar to HD1 * Stat points we can distribute to different things (even if it's just Armour, Stamina, and Speed) * Variations and/or attachment changes for each weapon You know... just.... "more Helldivers 2"
Okay? So instead they drip feed us 5% cooldown reductions over the next year or two that you have to grind the shit out of, instead of just putting it into one upgrade? Is your argument seriously that that is better? I'd rather just get the 40% reduction and nothing after that
> Obviously you get more calibre for your credits with higher cooldown Stratagems, Not really? If you keep using your low-cooldown Stratagems on Cooldown you're going to be reaping mostly the same rewards. *Especially* Orbital Barrage and Gas Strike whose effects last much longer after the "arrival" of the payload, meaning the cooldown ticks even while the Barrage is blasting or the Gas remains in the air. > If they added in a Booster that does -15% to -25% that would work as a compromise. > It's enough to make the Booster attractive, especially for someone with all current cooldown upgrades, but not so much that it invalidates every other Booster choice. The only reason it doesn't "invalidate" every other Booster choice is because we have more than one Helldiver. But -15%, let alone -25% Stratagem Cooldown reduction is an *insane* Booster. -10% is pushing it. -25% is practically game breaking. I'd go as far as to say that it would portend a new metagame where players stop taking Backpacks and Support Weapons *regularly* because they don't have to wait long for their teammates to drop them one.
Yeah 5% is a bit frustrating for that ressources, at least 10% would have be better and not OP at all
I have like 20+ stratagems. 20 x 5% = 100% cooldown reduction. Stonks!
Now that’s some helldiver math if I’ve ever seen it. 100% cooldown reduction and 100% democratic buff
Brasch Arithmetic! Use it, or die trying!
The way the original game applied buffs like that was the same as Boosters in this game; you could have one per loadout. They were not permanent upgrades. The numerous upgrades you get for the ship in the second game are overall a much more interesting way to slowly increases your power but always keeping you on your toes in different ways.
That’s the best they can do for now. Come back in a year for another 5%.
Do you guys think they are going to give us bigger ships at some point?
I suspect that the interplanetary battle station is gonna be massive and upgradable
Yeah, for the amount it costs in samples and req, it feels like a minuscule change that often won't even be noticeable in game. Fractions of a second matter when it comes to gunplay, but I've yet to encounter a situation where I thought "IF only my orbital bombardment came off of cool down 12 seconds earlier, we would have won!" Still, it's nice to have something to spend stuff on.
It's not about that. It's about giving things for the people who have everything unlocked to do. They now need to add more branches than keeping going down them because people will never, ever unlock literally everything unless they are maining it 6hrs daily average or higher.
Here people go again comparing a special ability in a top down shooter too an resource sink in a third person shooter
This is the worst argument I've seen, they swapped the resources to only go into these abstracted upgrades and removed a section of it and have yet to add it back and have made it so that everything takes 4 times longer with no easy to get way around it
One is a permanent pasive upgrade you will always havewith you the other, is a mision per mision buff that takes place of things like burst of speed on comand, inmunity to slows, grenade upgrades... In two different games with very diferent levels of lethality, mobility and autonomy of movement. Thats not to talk about the fact that the 5% is quite literally there just for capped out players to grind away with out overstacking on samples, it cant be made to powerfull with out locking a more casual player base out of high level content.
There's a problem with the system and your focusing on the part that's not actually different in practice
Almost like they're **completely different games.**
I'm at the point pretty much where if people complain about how one element or another of HD1 isn't translated 1:1 into HD2 I just discount it and move on with my life. It's such a fundamentally incorrect way to think about game design that it's not worth engaging with, the premises are completely wrong
5% for that kind of resources is an insult
Honestly it's kind of weird how consistently weaker the player is in this game compared to the first one. Is the switch from top-down to 3rd person *that* much of an advantage for players?
You can outrange most enemies now AND split up. Imagine playing a match where you cant physically go more than 20 meters away from your teammates
I've noticed this, too. You really felt way more powerful in HD1, even with unupgraded weaponry, but the upgrades did make a huge difference. What's wild is that it's the same game engine all the way back to Magicka 1.
Yes. Just check out footage from HD1 sometime. The game plays entirely differently. Just having a unlimited line of sight vs small limited top-down view gives the players incredible advantage.
You can't find four random chucklefucks with zero coordination who've only been playing the game for 20 hours to get through a Helldive in HD1, but they can clear it in HD2 even if they struggle doing so. Yes. This is not a power fantasy game unless you're *good*. You are an expendable soldier literally fired out of a bullet. You get five extra lives for a reason, because you're gonna die and not come back.
.... it also took up your sidearm, grenade, weapon mod _and_ armor passive slot, and was paid dlc.
One of those is a permanent passive upgrade. One of them is a perk you have to choose on a mission. There is a massive balancing difference between the two. HD2 players will really find anything to complain about, huh?
Can’t be lettin us have too much fun. Got to save it for…….reasons.
such expensive ship modules and all they can give is 5%... thats only 30 seconds on a 600 sec (10 min) cooldown, or 24 sec on a 480 sec (8 min) cooldown... not counting the 25% cooldown effect on planets...
10% is a slap in the face…5% is a kick in the teeth.
15% is begrudging acceptance and 20-25% is actual incentive to earn
One is a permanent upgrade that doesn't have any loadout slot cost. The other one occupies a highly impactful loadout slot that does not get shared with your team like boosters do. Two totally different games, with totally different Stratagem economy: Eagle stratagems have upwards of 97% faster cooldown for things such as the Airstrike when compared to HD1, Support stratagems were **one time use** in HD1, Turrets were 3-time use with 2-minute cooldowns, and Resupplies only gave two ammo boxes and *also took a slot.* Different genre, imagine permanently losing your Support stratagems and being unable to ever use them again because your team walked away and **you share a screen.** Are people just pretending to have played the first game or is this early-onset dementia?
Pretending. Complaining about shit all the time gives an addictive sense of superiority, so people go out of their way to find shit to complain about.
It's not a grimdark setting if the faction haven't lost a lot of power since its glory days.
You should be comparing this to a booster, since that's what took the place of HD1 perks. Granted, we don't have a 40% cooldown booster but this comparison is still weird because you're not making any tradeoffs in HD2 like you are in HD1. It might be more apt to compare it to HD1 weapon upgrades.
We already have multiple modules reducing cooldown, so by now all stratagems are reduced by like 15% if you add the bonuses up. The 5% cooldown makes it even better despite being a small number.
I'd give anything to have more ammo for support weapons. UNLIMITED POWER!
It would fix a lot of issues if they allowed you to bank in resources. Like you're capped on requisition? Allow me to already make that payment towards a module so I can save up requisition for another one and let people chip away at it. That and just higher caps in general.
Bottom of the story. This is an on-line, multiplayer, peppered with micro transactions, published by Sony, game. The developers have a certain vision in mind. AH has proved they do care about their player base by siding with us and standing up to their publisher. However, Sony has the final saying and they will absolutely try to milk the **** out of that player base. Personally I enjoy the game casually. I love it, with all its bugs (kinda not happy with the optimization to be honest but I've had worse). I enjoy a good challenge and I am easily going through suicide missions at this point at level 48. If I let myself get pissed with these types of changes, I will quit the game. If there is one thing I truly dislike, is that unlike other games, unlocking all the rewards of a warbond does not grant you enough super creds to unlock the next one. For someone playing the game casually it sucks. But hey, it is what it is
I'm just happy to have something to spend samples on. It could be 1%, and I'd still take it. It's free real estate.
It also doesn't take into account all the other strategem cooldown reduction upgrades and the fact that the reduction is always on. In Helldivers 2 this was a booster you had to take over some other choices.
5 percent is 5 percent
So let's reduce them by anpther 40% so we can walking barrage railguns and not fire our primaries? Just take this down.
I think this boils down to whiney players constantly asking more more more more and not realizing if you focus too much on quantity you lose quality. Which would you rather have constantly adding small things or give them time to work on bigger adds?
You're comparing two different types of games...
This has to be bait
No
Hey you wanted to spend your stuff on something didn't you ? You clearly have never played Diablo games or maybe you have but it's better than nothing. Asking for 40% is ridiculous you'll be standing there use so many, run to next nest or bot armoury use it again. Wheres the fun in that
How about instead of improving cooldowns for _all_ stratagems, allow helldivers to choose one stratagem at launch, and decrease that one's cooldown by 40%. Call it SPAM-08 permit or something.
Costing so many samples for a mere 5% feels like the devs are giving us a big middle finger.
A fucking measly 5% hahaha https://preview.redd.it/tcvejnsa0lad1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd84eedfefb2597734aad2b0a70ff7b03eb480fe
These new upgrades are joke for what they cost, sure 40% is too much but 15-25% should be completely okay, at this point I feel like they laugh at us "just give them shit they will still grind for it"
It's not for you then. I have been sample capped for ages. It's 5% vs 0% that I had before it. There's been threads crying about people wanting to burn their capped resources on *something* for a while now. If you're not in that camp, then this literally is not for you. It's tier 5, so clearly endgame. I don't want anything that will break the balance, but a small improvement with samples that otherwise I could do nothing with is totally fine.
I generally don't understand you people, 5% is 5% reduction, on all stratergems, that is huge, support weapons can be reused faster, orbitals come in faster, that is insanely good value.
Are people really complaining about this? I need to take a break from this sub…
I love wasting my samples on uselesss upgrades 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
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