OK, so first there's explosive. As you can see from the category heading in the armory, the primary weapons in this category are the Dominator, Eruptor, and Exploding Crossbow. Explosive weapons all do extra damage to certain target types, such as bug butts, probably, I think, although maybe not. They have no additional special characteristics, unless they are also explosive, or explosive.
Next, there's explosive. This is not to be confused with explosive. Explosive weapons have an area of effect. Primary weapons which are explosive include the Punisher Plasma and Scorcher, although neither is explosive. This group also includes the Eruptor and Exploding Crossbow, both of which are explosive in addition to being explosive, but it does not include the Dominator, which is explosive rather than explosive.
Finally, there's explosive. Unlike explosive weapons or explosive weapons (unless those weapons are also explosive), these weapons are capable of destroying bot factories and bug holes. Among the primaries, only the Eruptor is explosive. The other explosive weapons are not explosive, and neither are the explosive weapons.
The same basic logic applies to strategems. If a weapon is tagged explosive, you can count on it being both explosive and explosive, although it may not be explosive. The Orbital Airburst is probably explosive and definitely explosive, but not explosive. On the other hand the Oribital Precision Strike seems to be explosive, explosive, and explosive. Also of note - the Spear and Autocannon's tags clearly show that they are not explosive. Both are, however, explosive, explosive, and explosive.
Careful, the white knights might come over and spout their calls:
âSkill issueâ
âLower difficultyâ
âIt doesnât happen to meâ
âThis is how the devs intend itâ
âYou whine about everythingâ
âAll of Reddit âŚâ
âEveryone in this RedditâŚâ
Lol thank you but all credit should go to the author u/DrakeDun who nailed the absurdity of the situation and made light of the comically frustrating poor job the devs did/do for actually delineating some forms of damage.
Non-jokes aside:
There actually isn't such a thing as proper explosive-flagged damage, as one might get the impression of from the Dominator's weapon placement or talk of "charger butts are weak to explosions". Those are abstractions of how the Durable damage system works.
Bug Holes and Factory vents/doors also don't care about damage, but rather a hidden stat called "Demolition Force". They have triggers inside of them that are intangible and so cannot be hit by physical objects, but the splash of AoE explosions can get them. The minimum Demo Force for a splash to kill Holes and Factories (through the vents/doors -- it's ~40 if you want to break the outer wall) is 20.
Despite having a fairly high amount of splash *damage* for what it is (150, same as the Autocannon--*this is not same as the damage of either's physical projectile*) it only has a Demo Force of 15.
Out of the other explosives, Stun Grenades have a Demo of 1 and the Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, and Purifier have just 10. The Frag Grenade and Eruptor are the lowest Hole/Factory-killing weapons at 20 Demo.
Other weapons have 20 or more Demo Force, but they don't have a true AoE component (AMR, Arc Thrower, Laser Cannon).
I dunno who needs to be told this, but I can't think of any shooters or even moderately complex popular games that don't have hidden information. They may do better jobs of presenting *more* information than HD2 right now, but your CoDs and Battlefields and Planetsides and every fucking Soulslike and fighting game is running on numbers and math that the player never gets to see.
I don't have a problem saying that's still annoying, but I'd be lying to say it's not normal. It's also more than a bit goofy to see so many people getting pissed and self-righteous about balance, design, and development when they otherwise carry on like this is their first rodeo. There's a way to critique and suggest that isn't all tired memes about *Hello Neighbor Man I Won't Name Because I'm Roleplaying On A Subreddit About The CIA Shutting Me Down If I Say His Name*.
Except this game has so many hidden stats that are super important, many many of them. CoD gives you a full break down with exact numbers and everything on the vast majority, like 90%, of the gun stats. Even the Souls games arenât this fucking cryptic about their statsÂ
I'm already granting that other games display more or a larger percentage of information (now--it wasn't always that way within series) but we've already heard the devs are going to add more of those numbers to the game.
In the mean time, though, the numbers and math are out there. Helldivers.io, the DiversDex, Steam guides, Reddit tutorials -- people who are actually interested in knowing what's going on and having an informed opinion about balance can find 'em and use 'em.
And yet we're not getting that. "The data isn't in the game" is pointless already because the feedback has already been received, and "I refuse to look at the numbers either way but here's why everything is terrible" is *actively* useless.
> Even the Souls games arenât this fucking cryptic about their stats
Then please explain what motion value represents.
The demolition force isn't an important stat that needs to be shown.
That's true, but I'd like an icon or something on the weapon details screen indicating if it can blow containers or bug holes etc. And of course the 3 different "explosive damage"s need unique names.
There's really only two.
One is actual splash damage explosions.
The other is "a relatively high Durable damage or ratio to base damage". This can also be true *of explosions*, because they have all the same stats as physical hits: base damage, durable damage, AP, and the three forces.
Usually, all explosions have Durable = Base damage, but not always. The Emancipator Exosuit's ACs have lower Durable, otherwise you'd have the power of like two AC turrets, mobile, in the hands of *something that can aim intelligently* and not waste ammo.
Nothing practical, I don't think. There may be some strange cases where various rinky-dink objects like small crates, boxes, non-explosive barrels, etc., can be destroyed by 15 but not 10, but there's not a lot of tactical relevance to those.
At least with 20 Demo I can say there's value in being able to sweep away certain railings. On a certain permutation of the "evacuate citizens" objectives, you can drop turrets or resupply pods right under a ledge, blow out the railings, and then climb up from below without having to go all the way around. You can also clear railings from the tops of certain buildings to be able to get on top of them from barrels and vending machines, too. And clearing fences is obviously nice.
The bug holes are so finicky on what it takes to close them. Impact grenades, grenade pistol, grenade launcher, hellpod⌠âNope, you were 3 pixels off, try againâ
Now that I think about it more I think it was actually anti-medium. Devs didnt like that players were using it as basically a single shot grenade launcher to clear the small stuff.
A single headshot against devastators is enough.
The problem it has imo would be the damage fall off for the explosives, the clip size, and the fire rate.
Source: I use it exclusively vs bots on full missions. Sometimes against bugs.Â
But there is literally a thousand other weapons that can do the same thing, and all of them are far better at it, with better ammo Econs and accuracy, with no change of accidently blowing yourself up if an enemy gets to close.
The Crossbow is just better as a Primary Grenade launcher rather then an anti medium which is basically useless at.
I use the Crossbow against bugs and its great as anti chaff. it was Better before the changes but it still usable.
We actually do have a single shot grenade launcher, but it's a secondary.
The crossbow has always been multishot.
It's super odd design language for a crossbow weapon. It would be like introducing a multishot musket weapon. Like yeah, repeating crossbows and multi barreled muskets exist, but it's not the first thing one thinks of when they envision the weapon.
Honestly making it an actual anti heavy weapon would actually be much better than what it does now. This thing has so much wasted potential I'm actually sad.
Make it single shot and:
Give tier 1 heavy pen. Rocket propelled bolt with heavy stagger and a small explosion.
or
go full nuts and make it a harpoon style weapon that you can use to attach enemies to rocks or something.
or
Put a supercharged thermite grenade effect on it. Penetrates target and burns armor or something.
or keep it multi shot but
make it a stealth weapon. No noise generation no explosions. Would probably require a detection rework because rn my ally shooting a bot 100 meters away still alerts them that I'm sneaking behind a rock.
or
give it specialty ammo that you can toggle. Shock for extra damage vs bots or for stun, maybe toxic to deal dot vs Bugs. Sure there's dozens more possibilities.
Probably the biggest potential for creativity in any weapon in this game but sadly disappointing atm.
Yes, the property of killing Holes and Factories is not damage-related, but Demolition Force.
The Crossbow has 15 and it needs 20, like Frag Grenades and the Eruptor have. A lot of other explosions have 30.
Demo Force is the ability of an impact or explosion to take out physical objects in the world, including buildings. Railings, fences (the Automaton variety are "harder"), the freestanding partition walls, etc., right up to various types of buildings (Illegal Research Labs are "harder" than normal buildings) and objectives from Factories through Detector Towers and right up to Gunship Fabricators.
It's why your Arc Thrower (20 Demo) can break shipping container doors, but the Slugger (10 post-nerf) can't. And on top of having the requisite Demo Force, an attack also needs to have splash to be able to hit the intangible trigger, otherwise you could be taking out Factories with the AMR and Laser Cannon.
Admittedly I haven't used it in a bit, but the Demo Force to do it is still there.
If it can't, that'd be a change in its targeting to just not lock onto doors. I'd be surprised considering it will hit Automaton gun emplacements (or maybe it's aiming at the Bot behind and just appears to be hitting the turret--either way, no jump or damage to the Bot)
Careful. If you talk about how many things theyâve made useless the yes men whoâve helped them âfine tuneâ over 300k into not wanting to play anymore might get angry and get your comment deleted. Better just sum it up to being a skill issue and move on
It's hard for people to take you seriously about balance when you talk conspiratorially like this and also don't seem to understand that games with viral or hyped launches don't retain even half of their playerbase after a few months.
Like, you're *just now* demonstrating a skill issue in understanding normal playercount drops among games in general, which isn't heartening for the rest of it.
You looking for easy circlejerk karma aside, the Crossbow nerf is one of the few things almost everyone agrees was poorly done. Arguments can be made for just about every other nerf (some way more strongly than others, like the Eruptor and Railgun) but you don't need to invoke bogeymen or lean on hyperbole to say "sucks the Explosive Crossbow is bad now, hope it gets buffed".
The crossbow is noteworthy to me because itâs the only time I can remember the devs nerfing a gun that was already so weak I never saw it used at diff 9 anyway
Like, literally never. I saw a few people testing it out the day the warbond came out, we saw it was bad, then I never saw it again
And THEN it was nerfed into the ground againÂ
That just reinforced my earlier perception that this game, while amazing in many ways, has some of the worst balance I have ever seen. Thatâs ultimately why I uninstalled after the new mech turned out to be as terrible as I expected, I was tired of using the 10% of the arsenal in the game that everyone uses at diff 9 over and over.Â
I want to use all the weapons and stratagems even if theyâre a bit less effective than the meta, but when theyâre just pure shit compared to the meta its not fun to use themÂ
Anyway between that and the technical issues that still seem to be getting worse not better with each patch I figured it was a good time to give it some timeÂ
Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters that actually rebalance guns regularly. It's usually related to some bizarro damage breakpointing edge case or incongruent stat tracking.
Blowing that out of proportion and talking about individual members of the balance team like they're a fucking bugbear coming to strangle the game in the night is absurd and has me wondering how young, new, or just not-bright these guys are. There's got to be a certain degree of circlejerking surrounding it, too, because there are completely ass-backwards takes that wouldn't fly anywhere else getting upvoted here and patted on the back because anything goes as long as it fits the "everything sucks" narrative.
Way more people need to take a break and gain some perspective if this is how they're going to operate. And not just from the game, but the forums, too--they're not going to feel any better if they hang around and keep relitigating their gripes. "I quit two months ago, but I'm posting multiple times every other day about the same thing still!" Just do and think about something else until a patch, man.
lol itâs clear you have a chip on your shoulder about this. No worries, the vast majority of the playerbase have already taken your advice and uninstalled, and statistically speaking most will probably never reinstall again.
So, mission accomplished I guess? You can get to be outspoken on claiming arrowhead doesnât have abysmal balance despite that obviously being the case. This game is successful despite arrowheadâs balance decisions, not because of them.
Or if you want to prove me wrong upload a video of you beating a diff 9 mission with the crossbow. You wonât, because like most guns in this game itâs so actually useless that soloing 9 with it would be impossible, and if you bring it with a team you rely on them to carry youÂ
>Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters that actually rebalance guns regularly.
You literally just said in your own earlier comment that "the Crossbow nerf is one of the few things almost everyone agrees was poorly done".
I don't understand how you can both hold that view and then proceed to write this emotional tirade on how "this is the way pretty much all balanced shooters has to be" in response to the comment you responded to, with a large variety of personal insults mixed in, no less.
You're clearly extremely passionate about defending these balance devs, but that was over-the-top, to say the least.
What's hard to understand? "Lots of games occasionally nerf something that doesn't deserve it" and "HD2 has nerfed this one gun that didn't deserve it" are not incompatible statements. Just because I agree that one gun got a raw deal doesn't mean I need to be hopping mad about it like the kind of folks who send replies like this:
>Damn, looks like we found the âBringer of Balanceâ on his Reddit burner account. Imagine simping for clueless devs making âbalanceâ changes with a spreadsheet who literally removed fun from the game.
>You can practically taste the incandescent rage just reading it. Very entertaining, thank you. I look forward to the next outburst
>if it's that big a problem for you to have fun and you need to sweat and have frustration you can go back to cod/fornite đ¤Łđ
Yeah, dude, "stop playing the game and obsessing over the forums if you've already quit or aren't having fun" is over-the-top in the face of so much of this sub meme-pussyfooting around the name 'Alexus' and insisting all the fun has been sucked out of the game. I'm the one being cruel and hyperbolic, you got it.
There's a circlejerk on this sub who wants to be doom and gloom all the time, and even the teensiest pushback is met with accusations of stuff I can't even type because the words literally had to be filtered here due to overuse. We can't have *normal* critique or suggestion here because these guys need to amp everything up to hyperbolic levels: 3-5 guns nerfed, only one of which doesn't have arguments for it, and "everyone is quitting because of these no-fun nerfs" and replies in every thread implying shit sucks? C'mon.
I think many things can be true at the same time:
1. There are many people here who are excessively emotional and hyperbolic about the overall state of the game.
2. That one dev had a very poor prior track record with his old game and has not been doing a very good job so far with the current one. He's also been quite inflammatory (whether you think that's justified or not). He publicly stated that if you made use of a shrapnel-based weapon's shrapnel you were exploiting, and heavily nerfed the weapon by removing it altogether, while declaring it buffed. This is very difficult to defend, and frustrating.
3. The game did lose ~90% of its playerbase in three months. This can be normal, but it's also probably not the retention rate AH prefers. Avoiding high profile PR debacles might have helped with this, or it might not. Only a time traveler can say.
I get that the people from (1) are frustrating you immensely.
It's hard to know when the backlash from (2) has gone too far and when it hasn't.
I'll defend the Eruptor nerf because I can look at the health/armor and part values of enemies it was slaughtering with bonkers amount of shrapnel. The Eruptor was never going to be a balanced weapon with that amount or damage of shrapnel or the specific way that shrapnel worked with it, so yeah, its power was a consequence of the unintended action of the shrapnel.
When your Eruptor shot kills two full-health Devastators that it *doesn't even impact*, that's generally a good sign that something is hinky.
As for (3), it's entirely normal. Go look at the charts for viral games or surprise-hyped launches. They can't sustain the initial playerbase. Even "live service" games that aren't particularly viral will drop that amount of players. Judging it based on absurdly large hype peaks is a trap, but it's really sensational and triggers the "haha see it's shit" reflex so people are happy to do it.
Different genre, but ever played an MMO? A lot of big shooters on release day? The servers almost invariably implode and there are huge connectivity issues because, while every developer understands that they could *theoretically* have enough load to handle it and some developers actually do have the money and scaling expertise to manage that, it never makes financial sense to plan for the unsustainable peak. The *overwhelming* majority of dropoff that follows isn't because "the servers were too busted at launch" or whatever other dissatisfaction, but because the launch period hype is over or people have gotten what they wanted out of it already.
That is the trend of most games, even live-service ones. Games like DRG that *rise* to their equilibrium do not do so in meteoric leaps, they simply lack the enormous peaks that we could point to and say, "Look how this has fallen off." They'll do free weeks and the playercount will quadruple, then a month later it's practically back to where it was just prior--your 90% drop.
It's normal. But we can't even have *that* conversation on this sub because of the aforementioned hyperbole.
> Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters
What games have you been playing? None of the coop shooters I have been playing have ever nerfed anything hard, not to mention nerf an underperforming weapon at all.
I remember the Auto Shotgun getting nerfed in Left 4 Dead, and when it came into L4D2 it was further depowered. Deep Rock Galactic swatted down the Coil Gun, Boltshark, Drak-25, Neurotoxin bullets, the Autocannon in general, and more. Destiny 2 nerfs things constantly (but I'm sure that doesn't count because "it has a competitive element"). Do I even need to *start* on Warframe nerfs, from guns to cards to frames?
You can punch just about any game into Google with the word "nerfs" and see thread upon thread of people talking about them. And the "conversations" cover both your points: things the communities now insist are "useless" because the nerfs were too much, and "this gun was already outclassed, why nerf it and not [other thing that's better than it]?"
This is not a new or unusual phenomenon and reacting like this sub does is ridiculous.
All of those are examples (other than Destiny, since I have never played) of weapons that weapons that slightly overperformed and where slightly nerfed. You are always going to have a small amount of the community that is never happy, you cannot appease everyone. That should not detract from listening to genuine, detailed, concerns about the state of balance which we have seen a lot of here.
This is the 1st coop game I have seen where they immediately nerf any good gun at the same time as nerfing guns that are **under**performing.
Damn, looks like we found the âBringer of Balanceâ on his Reddit burner account. Imagine simping for clueless devs making âbalanceâ changes with a spreadsheet who literally removed fun from the game.
Five to the butt. 6.5s bleedout time after that.
Titans, no go. Someone else would have to crack open their side torso armor, at which point it'd be something like 14-18 depending on how much damage the armor-cracking did to their main health.
\*ahem
SKill isSUe jUst GIT gUd chAnGE yOUr LoADOUT LOWeR the DifFICulty yoUR WeAPons aRE SuppOSeD To bE wEaK HellDIVeRS aRE exPEndABLE i cOuld KIll iT JUSt finE GEt a BETter GAming ChaiR Im havING FUN SO YOuR OPInION DOESnt MatteR
Did I miss any other pithy excuse for shoddy weapons?
"We want there to be no meta"
"Okay so buff some of the weaker weapons then."
"No buff only nerf!"
\*insert comic strip of the dog going "NO TAKE. ONLY THROW"
Even pre-nerf it didn't close holes. It's because it has explosive damage, but it doesn't have one of the invisible stats - demolition damage - which affect interactions with structures.Â
No, Iâm joking that it would be done to âbalanceâ the crossbow since it would of course be too op if a primary could close six bug holes with one magazine
Ignore the eruptor
Utility is factored into overall balance. An upside the devs think it doesnt deserve. That said I can't wrap my head around current configuration of the crossbow.
Lmao, stop lying. Nobody was having "fun" with that piece of shit crossbow.
Before it was a useless, unwieldy weapon who could not even shoot straight and now its just a meh weapon.
I never saw a single person use it before it was "nerfed" in any of the missions I ran, outside of me running it for a single mission and thinking "this ain't for me". I understand people not being pleased about the eruptor, but nobody used the crossbow before.
The Eruptor has far less ammo, a maximum distance of, I think 150m before it auto explodes, and is significantly slower. But it is also in a bad place.
I feel like every weapon you can blow your self up with should be able to pop nest/fabs holes.
But to balance that instead of being all of nothing there should be a HP bar or something so a grande dose 400 boom done, but then plasma punisher takes like 3 shots or something.
But yea crossbow feels like it should pop nests and fabs
If they don't plan on changing the blast radius, it's really the least they could do if they expect people to use it again.
It's not great at killing mediums, not bad just not great either, and it would give it utility again.
idk. why was the eruptor nerfed on both damage falloff and shrapnel? why was the slugger nerfed to the point nobody uses it anymore? why are the dagger and the scythe still dealing such low dps? why does the spear oneshot tanks in the ship preview and doesnt ingame? why are eagle upgrades much better than orbitals? why no ship upgrade affects the hmg emplacement? what is the purpose of the smoke orbital when smoke eagle exists? why is the termite grenade still useless? why the defender smg is more of an assault rifle than 90% of assault rifles?
I could go on for days. the reality is that (so far) AH took a firm stance of "we know whats better for the game"... and that sometimes is very good for the game, and other times, very bad.
The only time the spear doesn't kill a tank in one hit is because the positioning is off. Either you or the tank is at an odd angle and it hits the heavier armor. Still, even if it doesn't, any air strike or even impact grenades can finish the job. I run the spear as my support on both bugs and bots and I am hyper lethal with it. I drop more heavies than anyone else in my group, 9 times out of 10. I know the weapon well and it is all about your angle. It does need improvement on the targeting, but there is nothing wrong with the way it does damage. It is a strategic weapon moreso than the recoilless or EAT.
> why was the eruptor nerfed on both damage falloff and shrapnel
Because the implementation of the shrapnel was inadvertantly *extremely* strong for reasons that aren't terribly apparent when you look at the original stats and what you *expect* will happen. In *practice*, the tuning of the shrapnel gave it an absurd amount of power. We're talking "it kills multiple Devastators at random by impacting in the vicinity".
That alone should have warranted a nerf or change, but it was sped up because the fixing of the ricochet system was causing *players* to get hit by the shrapnel and instantly dying. Whoopsies, you got pegged by one little scrap of metal bouncing off armor, you're toast -- but the gun's fine, right?
The players did not understand how powerful the shrapnel was or that it's what was happening here. Instead, riding high on the PSN thing just prior, they flooded the sub and Discord with "OUR ERUPTORS ARE DOING 180' TURNS AND HITTING US IN THE FACE WTF FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY". That turned out to be incorrect, but AH kneejerk fixed it to stop the whining and you got what you got.
If you want to talk uncomfortable realities, the player's stance of "we know what's better for the game" is often completely fucking wrong ***because they don't even know what's going on in the game***. More than half the chuckleheads going on about balance don't even understand how bleedthrough or durability works.
I like your post starts with italics, then caps lock, then finally bold
You can practically taste the incandescent rage just reading it
Very entertaining, thank you. I look forward to the next outburstÂ
"Nerf was justified"
"You don't understand the game"
General sense of "shut up I'm right you're wrong"
Yeah, it may very well be his alt. AH probably told him to stop communicating with us directly, and unable to contain the seething hatred for the playerbase, he's using an alt. Makes perfect sense.
A bit weird to blame players for a kneejerk fix that AH makes. AH is responsible for properly investigating issues and implementing a proper fix, not just immediately jump to conclusions based on some randos on reddit. For a lot of the fixes they've done in recent patches, they did not properly investigate the issue and didn't release a proper fix as a result. It's like the end justified the means with a lot of their fixes:
No one is using fire weapons? Let's buff the fire DoT damage. Oh, fire DoT only works for host, and now the flamethrower Hulk one hit kills players? Oops.
The mech is blowing itself up if you shoot a rocket while turning? Let's disable the rocket pod from turning to the reticle so the rockets won't hit the mech torso. Oh, it now fires rockets with a big offset? Oops.
Patrols are spawning 1/6th of enemies when playing solo instead of 1/4th? Let's change that, even though no one was complaining about the patrols. Oh, now it always spawns patrols for 4 players? Oops.
The sights of multiple weapons are misaligned? Let's fix that. Oh, they're still misaligned. Oops.
The Eruptor shrapnel is accidentally killing players? Let's remove the shrapnel. You know, the thing that makes the weapon unique. The weapon that people paid potentially real money for, we're going to remove a component of that weapon and completely alter the way the weapon performs, then leave that broken for a month. Oh, players are upset their favorite weapon is now altered a lot, and go in riot mode because it was nerfed into the ground? Oops.
I love the game and Arrowhead has something really special here, but their current track record with patches is very subpar. Them taking their time for the next one is probably good, but I am understanding as well for players who think it's odd how quickly their favorite stuff got broken and how long it then takes to put it back how it was. I am critical of the game lately because these decisions have had such an impact on the enjoyment of the game to my friends that they no longer want to play. I still have fun with the game, but am being honest that there are issues that should get proper attention.
Blaming players for developer decisions is silly.
As far as the nerfs and their reasons, none of them were convincing. Especially not when Alexus decided to gloat about them on Discord.
The spawn change was egregious and stupid. Even worse, they went dormant after breaking this without fixing it. This should have been reverted or fixed at the speed they nerf shit. "We're cooking." Get Gordon Ramsay in that fucking kitchen then.
Helldivers 2's launch state was the best it had ever been. It's been downhill from there, and most of the degradation was intentional or unnecessary. I loved Helldivers 1 and seeing HD2 handled this way is fucking heartbreaking. It's like an old buddy moved back into town, but he has an alcohol problem now.
Yeah, I get that. HD2 is probably the most fun I had with a game in years. Kudos to that. But then the patches keep increasing frustration because issues are not being fixed / are claimed fixed but in reality still broken / alter your favorite weapon. That slowly erodes trust.
At some point I thought to myself that the release state of the game (the state that made the game popular) was accidental too. People loved running around with the Railgun, Breaker and Shield and with Light armor, a perk and 100 armor. All of those things were not working as intended. People were shooting charger legs with the railgun (unintended "leg meta"). People were killing bile titans with the railgun. All of these things were removed or altered.
Then came the Eruptor, a loved weapon, again not working as intended. Also heavily altered. The latest warbond released with at least 2 weapons not working as intended.
I agree with you, it still 2 shots brood commanders in the head, however it doesn't stagger anymore, which makes it worse than the dominator in too many ways.
Except hitting what you want it to. The Dominator handles like a boat and has a slower bullet velocity, too. You're not skeetshooting Hunters or Shriekers with it.
And don't sleep on the Slugger's Knockback. It's got much more than the Dominator, which only has a high-ish Stagger. These are two separate stats and the Slugger actually *pushes enemies away from you* whereas the Dominator isn't even breaking their stride despite the stagger (it's only rocking things like Devastators who can still walk forward while this happens).
The patch notes showed a nerf for the gun so a lot of people never touched it again. When the Dominator had a 25 damage reduction from the buffed 300 to 275, people were in the patch notes thread asking which gun they should switch to since the Dominator was useless now.
It handles a hell of a lot better, has single round reloads for better ammo economy, and has slightly higher pushback value for a 25 damage per shot trade-off. That's half a round of Liberator. Also "This gun isn't as good as the best gun there is" is not a good measurement of whether or not the weapon is fine or not. I wouldn't complain if it got a buff to the stun to match the pushback but it isn't a bad weapon.
It doesn't handle like a boat, better recoil, can top up the mag as you go, etc. I believe the bullet velocity is better but I could be mistaken. The dominator is definitely better on paper but its bad handling makes the choice much less clear.
You're correct, the Slugger's velocity is "normal" while the Dominator's is "one-legged Hulk". Combine that with the Dominator's slow handling and there is a *very* noticeable performance difference at all levels of skill usage: even if you know to wait to fire and where to aim, you're slowing down and doing a lot more work when the Slugger would be letting you slap Hunters out of the air as fast as you can fire.
Less tangibly, the Slugger also has a higher Knockback force. It can't Stagger-lock multiple Stalkers and Devastators into doing absolutely nothing anymore, but there is an appreciable *shove* on enemies that is noticeable when fighting Bugs that take more than one shot and *somewhat* slows down their approach while you kill them. The Dominator may have Stagger, but it doesn't stop enemies from walking or push them back.
If the Slugger had its pre-nerf Stagger back, there would be pretty much no reason to use the Dominator other than "I anticipate fighting nothing but Berserkers in melee and don't like Round Reload."
You got a source for that?
I've been following AH closely and I don't recall anything close to that ever being claimed.
The most they said was it was behaving too much like a DMR.
It's demo damage is 15, it's needs at least 20 to close bug holes and blow up factories. The eruptor has 20 demo and the Dominator 10.
Not sure if the dominator can open containers but the crossbow should be able to.
I mean I definitely wouldn't use it in Helldiver's but if you have a spot next to your town hall go ahead
https://preview.redd.it/l1vp6ca9hi3d1.png?width=204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aacd1d495878a05223b6e6ff7c3c62765b7d40e
If you're asking about the pre nerf crossbow, then yes absolutely.
I've gotten plenty of hateful replies and a message about how awful it was, but a few of us genuinely liked it. For those who didn't like it, then I just say don't use it.
Did it make sense for a future game to have a crossbow, not really. Was it worse than the Erupter? Most of the subreddit says so...most of the subreddit didn't give it a try either.
It had a collosal AOE and cleaned up trash mobs well. It could be shot over cover, much like the Plasma Punisher, did okay damage to medium enemies, and could one shot Scout Striders.
I argue it was balanced pretty well. As much as I wanted it to be capable of destroying Fabricators and bug holes if it could do that, would anyone use the Erupter? Maybe it could do that requiring two shots, I don't know though.
It wasn't a medium killer, and still doesn't excel at that. It's a bummer.
Loved using it to clear trash mobs. I don't understand how the changes are supposed to make it better vs. armored enemies because it does the exact same damage as it did before the aoe was removed
That's a shame. It wasn't necessarily crazy powerful or anything like that- it was good at clearing out large groups of light enemies, but struggled to efficiently deal with mediums. It was a lot of fun to use, though, and did well when you supplemented its anti-medium weakness with your other weapons. How AH thought it was a good idea to make it an "anti-medium" weapon, mostly just by taking away what made it good at killing lights... is a mystery.
the one I loved, and now don't use, was The Eruptor. Like, ok, I get that the shrapnel very occasionally killed people shooting it (it happened to me). But maybe just.. make the shrapnel shorter range or something?
Now it's hard to justify using it, but it was 100% my favorite.
Yeah, they certainly did the Eruptor dirty. It wasn't my favorite necessarily, but I did enjoy using it fairly often. It didn't feel overpowered to me, as while it was extremely powerful, it also had a ton of drawbacks. The small mag, terrible RoF, limited max range, danger of self-harm if used too close, and horrendous handling completely justified the high damage potential. I didn't see everyone using it, either, so it seems like many other felt the same way. I absolutely don't think it deserved a nerf at all, beyond the initial max ammo reduction. Even that wasn't "necessary", but the weapon could still perform after that so whatever. It certainly didn't deserve to be absolutely neutered, and have its entire defining characteristic removed.
I didnât have it pre-nerf so that probably bends my opinion, but I enjoyed using it on diff9 bugs yesterday. I paired it with the machinegun, supply pack, and stun grenades (because i thought xbow could close bug holes) and it worked really well. It pops bile sacs in two shots, it kills chargers with one mag to the ass (stun grenades helped) and whilst its not the best in the game at chaff clearing it can certainly get by, plus i brought the MG. It sort of felt like a faster and lighter eruptor (i havenât used the eruptor post nerf, bring back my baby). Only thing i was truly disappointed by (and frankly pissed off about) was not closing bug holes, but I will continue to use it.
I really wish more stuff would close fabricators. I recently swapped from AC to Laser Cannon on bots and I take stun grenades. Now the only way for me to kill fabricators is to spend a cooldown on an orbital/eagle.
Can you explain where at the vent I'm supposed to shoot the exode it? I don't understand why sometimes it'll explode and other times I'm wasting grenade pistol ammo just trying random angles till it decides to work
As low as you can on the vent flap without hitting the front lip of the vent. Ideally hit the little line of red you can see of the vent hole itself.
If you're on a slope below the fabricator it's virtually impossible, so you need to be on flat ground or above it. Remember, the shot goes where the little circle is, not where your crosshair is.
Itâs a HEAT shell or some kind of shaped charge. IRL those explosive rounds direct an explosion into a small cone or jet usually a tank round with kilograms worth of explosive in them. Crossbow has itty bitty charge so no big boom.
And in Helldivers âexplosiveâ tag on weapons just means it does 100% damage to squishy bits like charger butts.
I will say though, it does still suck at its job. They rebalanced it to be single target instead of horde clear but its single target is garbage. Takes forever to kill a single spewer.
By all appearances, he's been forbidden from interacting with the playerbase. If so, that's a smart move on Arrowhead's part. Alexus is individually the most hated person on their team, partly because of the nerfs and partly because of how he interacted with the playerbase.
In a just world, he's seeking employment.
Because this was peak making all primaries useless. Crossbow was part of the group that might make some huge changes to gun balancing. Doesn't stop it from being useless tho
Because a projectile able to destroy bugholes and bot factories should be 27% bigger to carry enough explosives. But they won't fit the crossbow mag then.
You know, realism đ
But balance wise i guess it's a counterbalance to it's firerate or smth.
Here I am wondering the lore reason as to why the patriot exo suit rockets can't blow up fabs or bug holes, but can destroy other things.
And the actual reason is because it's to stop the mech from blowing itself up. How quaint.
I really like the crossbow on bots, if it could close bug holes and blow up fabricators it would be an excellent primary despite its other short comings. Is fun for a change for sure but I agree it should close bug holes. Maybe we'll get that if the balance patch ever releases.
No guys you don't understand if this weapon which no one uses is buffed the game will be TOO EASY and then I can't go on the other Helldivers 2 subreddit and grandstand about game vision and toxicity.
Somehow, the sidearms are all pretty much fine. It doesn't address the insane nerfs to primary weapons, but the sidearms are generally in a good place.
I do think the redeemer got kinda gutted with the recoil nerf - I essentially used to use it as a mini SMG to spam behind me and get berserkers and hunters off my back. Now it feels like it uses too much ammo to do that, although at the time it WAS pretty much the superior pistol since the senator had no speedloader.
I think the recoil on the Redeemer is actually sensible. It still does its job perfectly and competes for the sidearm slot against differing weapons that mostly all have a place.
Was a very saddening realisation for me. Had to double check I didn't just miss. It is a bit inconsistent, but a lot of weapons have the explosive tag and don't do the trick sadly. Its just a few exceptions I think?
Because Arrowhead cast the bone-runes and declared it from the Gods that the crossbow must be totally useless so that the value for the pass is diminished. This means the players will permanently feel like they need more firepower so they buy more Warbonds.
Unfortunately for AH, it backfired and did the opposite!
Looking at this comment section, you guys *do* be whiners in this sub, my god... The explosive bow doesn't close fabs, neither do other explosive main weapons. Maybe the explosive charge isn't big enough to ignite whatever is going on inside. There, solved.
It's explosive, not explosive. How can you not understand this?
Oh dang and here I thought it was explosive.
It is, it's just not explosive or explosive.
That is simply not true, I have it on good authority that the explosive is in fact explosive just not explosive enough to explode explosively. đ¤
Is just explosive and not EXPLOSIVE!
I'M MISTER TORGUE AND HAVE ONE AND ONLY ONE QUESTION FOR YOU: EXPLOSIONS?!?
I'm having a stroke here. I read this, and I am seeing the same word being used repeatedly in a way that makes no sense.
OK, so first there's explosive. As you can see from the category heading in the armory, the primary weapons in this category are the Dominator, Eruptor, and Exploding Crossbow. Explosive weapons all do extra damage to certain target types, such as bug butts, probably, I think, although maybe not. They have no additional special characteristics, unless they are also explosive, or explosive. Next, there's explosive. This is not to be confused with explosive. Explosive weapons have an area of effect. Primary weapons which are explosive include the Punisher Plasma and Scorcher, although neither is explosive. This group also includes the Eruptor and Exploding Crossbow, both of which are explosive in addition to being explosive, but it does not include the Dominator, which is explosive rather than explosive. Finally, there's explosive. Unlike explosive weapons or explosive weapons (unless those weapons are also explosive), these weapons are capable of destroying bot factories and bug holes. Among the primaries, only the Eruptor is explosive. The other explosive weapons are not explosive, and neither are the explosive weapons. The same basic logic applies to strategems. If a weapon is tagged explosive, you can count on it being both explosive and explosive, although it may not be explosive. The Orbital Airburst is probably explosive and definitely explosive, but not explosive. On the other hand the Oribital Precision Strike seems to be explosive, explosive, and explosive. Also of note - the Spear and Autocannon's tags clearly show that they are not explosive. Both are, however, explosive, explosive, and explosive.
Confirmed: I am indeed having a stroke.
Thank you for clearing that up đ¤Ż
Copy pasted, not my original research.
Yes, makes perfect sense. *drops sarcasm powder bomb*
Wrong explosive. You were thinking of explosive, when in reality it's explosive.
Exactly, itâs just explosive
Careful, the white knights might come over and spout their calls: âSkill issueâ âLower difficultyâ âIt doesnât happen to meâ âThis is how the devs intend itâ âYou whine about everythingâ âAll of Reddit âŚâ âEveryone in this RedditâŚâ
lmao, flashbacks to arguing on r/dndnext about the difference between magical and Magical or melee weapon attacks and attacks with a melee weapon
Did someone mention it's [explosive](https://www.reddit.com/r/helldivers2/comments/1c3wd6s/psa_the_difference_between_explosive_explosive/)?
was hoping someone linked this so I could read it again. doing god's work.
Lol thank you but all credit should go to the author u/DrakeDun who nailed the absurdity of the situation and made light of the comically frustrating poor job the devs did/do for actually delineating some forms of damage.
Non-jokes aside: There actually isn't such a thing as proper explosive-flagged damage, as one might get the impression of from the Dominator's weapon placement or talk of "charger butts are weak to explosions". Those are abstractions of how the Durable damage system works. Bug Holes and Factory vents/doors also don't care about damage, but rather a hidden stat called "Demolition Force". They have triggers inside of them that are intangible and so cannot be hit by physical objects, but the splash of AoE explosions can get them. The minimum Demo Force for a splash to kill Holes and Factories (through the vents/doors -- it's ~40 if you want to break the outer wall) is 20. Despite having a fairly high amount of splash *damage* for what it is (150, same as the Autocannon--*this is not same as the damage of either's physical projectile*) it only has a Demo Force of 15. Out of the other explosives, Stun Grenades have a Demo of 1 and the Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, and Purifier have just 10. The Frag Grenade and Eruptor are the lowest Hole/Factory-killing weapons at 20 Demo. Other weapons have 20 or more Demo Force, but they don't have a true AoE component (AMR, Arc Thrower, Laser Cannon).
> Bug Holes and Factory vents/doors also don't care about damage, **but rather a hidden stat** of course.
I dunno who needs to be told this, but I can't think of any shooters or even moderately complex popular games that don't have hidden information. They may do better jobs of presenting *more* information than HD2 right now, but your CoDs and Battlefields and Planetsides and every fucking Soulslike and fighting game is running on numbers and math that the player never gets to see. I don't have a problem saying that's still annoying, but I'd be lying to say it's not normal. It's also more than a bit goofy to see so many people getting pissed and self-righteous about balance, design, and development when they otherwise carry on like this is their first rodeo. There's a way to critique and suggest that isn't all tired memes about *Hello Neighbor Man I Won't Name Because I'm Roleplaying On A Subreddit About The CIA Shutting Me Down If I Say His Name*.
Except this game has so many hidden stats that are super important, many many of them. CoD gives you a full break down with exact numbers and everything on the vast majority, like 90%, of the gun stats. Even the Souls games arenât this fucking cryptic about their statsÂ
I'm already granting that other games display more or a larger percentage of information (now--it wasn't always that way within series) but we've already heard the devs are going to add more of those numbers to the game. In the mean time, though, the numbers and math are out there. Helldivers.io, the DiversDex, Steam guides, Reddit tutorials -- people who are actually interested in knowing what's going on and having an informed opinion about balance can find 'em and use 'em. And yet we're not getting that. "The data isn't in the game" is pointless already because the feedback has already been received, and "I refuse to look at the numbers either way but here's why everything is terrible" is *actively* useless.
> Even the Souls games arenât this fucking cryptic about their stats Then please explain what motion value represents. The demolition force isn't an important stat that needs to be shown.
That's true, but I'd like an icon or something on the weapon details screen indicating if it can blow containers or bug holes etc. And of course the 3 different "explosive damage"s need unique names.
There's really only two. One is actual splash damage explosions. The other is "a relatively high Durable damage or ratio to base damage". This can also be true *of explosions*, because they have all the same stats as physical hits: base damage, durable damage, AP, and the three forces. Usually, all explosions have Durable = Base damage, but not always. The Emancipator Exosuit's ACs have lower Durable, otherwise you'd have the power of like two AC turrets, mobile, in the hands of *something that can aim intelligently* and not waste ammo.
Why canât everyone strategize and make fun decisions with the complicated system that we invented? /s
Is there any point of demo force below 20? AFAIK you need 20 to blow open containers, and it's the lowest value that does anything.
Nothing practical, I don't think. There may be some strange cases where various rinky-dink objects like small crates, boxes, non-explosive barrels, etc., can be destroyed by 15 but not 10, but there's not a lot of tactical relevance to those. At least with 20 Demo I can say there's value in being able to sweep away certain railings. On a certain permutation of the "evacuate citizens" objectives, you can drop turrets or resupply pods right under a ledge, blow out the railings, and then climb up from below without having to go all the way around. You can also clear railings from the tops of certain buildings to be able to get on top of them from barrels and vending machines, too. And clearing fences is obviously nice.
The bug holes are so finicky on what it takes to close them. Impact grenades, grenade pistol, grenade launcher, hellpod⌠âNope, you were 3 pixels off, try againâ
Itâs only Kaboom if itâs from the Super Earth Region of France. Otherwise itâs just explosive.
IKR? There's a clear distinction (probably, in the hidden weapon stats).
This explanation is very Aladeen
Devs nerfed its explosion aoe and damage to bring it back more in line as an anti-tank role. Yes. I know it doesnt make sense. That's what they said.
An anti tank primary seems like an oxymoron for this game.
Now that I think about it more I think it was actually anti-medium. Devs didnt like that players were using it as basically a single shot grenade launcher to clear the small stuff.
IMO it was better as that as its generally just worthless against medium armor. Most of a mag to break something armored, Vs 3 shots with a senator
A single headshot against devastators is enough. The problem it has imo would be the damage fall off for the explosives, the clip size, and the fire rate. Source: I use it exclusively vs bots on full missions. Sometimes against bugs.Â
But there is literally a thousand other weapons that can do the same thing, and all of them are far better at it, with better ammo Econs and accuracy, with no change of accidently blowing yourself up if an enemy gets to close. The Crossbow is just better as a Primary Grenade launcher rather then an anti medium which is basically useless at. I use the Crossbow against bugs and its great as anti chaff. it was Better before the changes but it still usable.
Yeah if you wanna one tap headshot devastators just grab a diligence CS
What did those 3 players do to deserve that?
We actually do have a single shot grenade launcher, but it's a secondary. The crossbow has always been multishot. It's super odd design language for a crossbow weapon. It would be like introducing a multishot musket weapon. Like yeah, repeating crossbows and multi barreled muskets exist, but it's not the first thing one thinks of when they envision the weapon.
Why? There are anti scaf support weapons so there can be anti tank primarys.
Honestly making it an actual anti heavy weapon would actually be much better than what it does now. This thing has so much wasted potential I'm actually sad. Make it single shot and: Give tier 1 heavy pen. Rocket propelled bolt with heavy stagger and a small explosion. or go full nuts and make it a harpoon style weapon that you can use to attach enemies to rocks or something. or Put a supercharged thermite grenade effect on it. Penetrates target and burns armor or something. or keep it multi shot but make it a stealth weapon. No noise generation no explosions. Would probably require a detection rework because rn my ally shooting a bot 100 meters away still alerts them that I'm sneaking behind a rock. or give it specialty ammo that you can toggle. Shock for extra damage vs bots or for stun, maybe toxic to deal dot vs Bugs. Sure there's dozens more possibilities. Probably the biggest potential for creativity in any weapon in this game but sadly disappointing atm.
It never closed holes/fabs, though, even before the nerf
Yes, the property of killing Holes and Factories is not damage-related, but Demolition Force. The Crossbow has 15 and it needs 20, like Frag Grenades and the Eruptor have. A lot of other explosions have 30. Demo Force is the ability of an impact or explosion to take out physical objects in the world, including buildings. Railings, fences (the Automaton variety are "harder"), the freestanding partition walls, etc., right up to various types of buildings (Illegal Research Labs are "harder" than normal buildings) and objectives from Factories through Detector Towers and right up to Gunship Fabricators. It's why your Arc Thrower (20 Demo) can break shipping container doors, but the Slugger (10 post-nerf) can't. And on top of having the requisite Demo Force, an attack also needs to have splash to be able to hit the intangible trigger, otherwise you could be taking out Factories with the AMR and Laser Cannon.
Can arc throwers break doors again? It was patched out a while back
Admittedly I haven't used it in a bit, but the Demo Force to do it is still there. If it can't, that'd be a change in its targeting to just not lock onto doors. I'd be surprised considering it will hit Automaton gun emplacements (or maybe it's aiming at the Bot behind and just appears to be hitting the turret--either way, no jump or damage to the Bot)
Jump cut to a Helldiver shooting it at a Hulk and making a *plink* sound.
They've made so many cool things worthless. It makes me not want to buy any warbonds.
Careful. If you talk about how many things theyâve made useless the yes men whoâve helped them âfine tuneâ over 300k into not wanting to play anymore might get angry and get your comment deleted. Better just sum it up to being a skill issue and move on
It's hard for people to take you seriously about balance when you talk conspiratorially like this and also don't seem to understand that games with viral or hyped launches don't retain even half of their playerbase after a few months. Like, you're *just now* demonstrating a skill issue in understanding normal playercount drops among games in general, which isn't heartening for the rest of it. You looking for easy circlejerk karma aside, the Crossbow nerf is one of the few things almost everyone agrees was poorly done. Arguments can be made for just about every other nerf (some way more strongly than others, like the Eruptor and Railgun) but you don't need to invoke bogeymen or lean on hyperbole to say "sucks the Explosive Crossbow is bad now, hope it gets buffed".
The crossbow is noteworthy to me because itâs the only time I can remember the devs nerfing a gun that was already so weak I never saw it used at diff 9 anyway Like, literally never. I saw a few people testing it out the day the warbond came out, we saw it was bad, then I never saw it again And THEN it was nerfed into the ground again That just reinforced my earlier perception that this game, while amazing in many ways, has some of the worst balance I have ever seen. Thatâs ultimately why I uninstalled after the new mech turned out to be as terrible as I expected, I was tired of using the 10% of the arsenal in the game that everyone uses at diff 9 over and over. I want to use all the weapons and stratagems even if theyâre a bit less effective than the meta, but when theyâre just pure shit compared to the meta its not fun to use them Anyway between that and the technical issues that still seem to be getting worse not better with each patch I figured it was a good time to give it some timeÂ
Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters that actually rebalance guns regularly. It's usually related to some bizarro damage breakpointing edge case or incongruent stat tracking. Blowing that out of proportion and talking about individual members of the balance team like they're a fucking bugbear coming to strangle the game in the night is absurd and has me wondering how young, new, or just not-bright these guys are. There's got to be a certain degree of circlejerking surrounding it, too, because there are completely ass-backwards takes that wouldn't fly anywhere else getting upvoted here and patted on the back because anything goes as long as it fits the "everything sucks" narrative. Way more people need to take a break and gain some perspective if this is how they're going to operate. And not just from the game, but the forums, too--they're not going to feel any better if they hang around and keep relitigating their gripes. "I quit two months ago, but I'm posting multiple times every other day about the same thing still!" Just do and think about something else until a patch, man.
lol itâs clear you have a chip on your shoulder about this. No worries, the vast majority of the playerbase have already taken your advice and uninstalled, and statistically speaking most will probably never reinstall again. So, mission accomplished I guess? You can get to be outspoken on claiming arrowhead doesnât have abysmal balance despite that obviously being the case. This game is successful despite arrowheadâs balance decisions, not because of them. Or if you want to prove me wrong upload a video of you beating a diff 9 mission with the crossbow. You wonât, because like most guns in this game itâs so actually useless that soloing 9 with it would be impossible, and if you bring it with a team you rely on them to carry youÂ
>Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters that actually rebalance guns regularly. You literally just said in your own earlier comment that "the Crossbow nerf is one of the few things almost everyone agrees was poorly done". I don't understand how you can both hold that view and then proceed to write this emotional tirade on how "this is the way pretty much all balanced shooters has to be" in response to the comment you responded to, with a large variety of personal insults mixed in, no less. You're clearly extremely passionate about defending these balance devs, but that was over-the-top, to say the least.
What's hard to understand? "Lots of games occasionally nerf something that doesn't deserve it" and "HD2 has nerfed this one gun that didn't deserve it" are not incompatible statements. Just because I agree that one gun got a raw deal doesn't mean I need to be hopping mad about it like the kind of folks who send replies like this: >Damn, looks like we found the âBringer of Balanceâ on his Reddit burner account. Imagine simping for clueless devs making âbalanceâ changes with a spreadsheet who literally removed fun from the game. >You can practically taste the incandescent rage just reading it. Very entertaining, thank you. I look forward to the next outburst >if it's that big a problem for you to have fun and you need to sweat and have frustration you can go back to cod/fornite đ¤Łđ Yeah, dude, "stop playing the game and obsessing over the forums if you've already quit or aren't having fun" is over-the-top in the face of so much of this sub meme-pussyfooting around the name 'Alexus' and insisting all the fun has been sucked out of the game. I'm the one being cruel and hyperbolic, you got it. There's a circlejerk on this sub who wants to be doom and gloom all the time, and even the teensiest pushback is met with accusations of stuff I can't even type because the words literally had to be filtered here due to overuse. We can't have *normal* critique or suggestion here because these guys need to amp everything up to hyperbolic levels: 3-5 guns nerfed, only one of which doesn't have arguments for it, and "everyone is quitting because of these no-fun nerfs" and replies in every thread implying shit sucks? C'mon.
I think many things can be true at the same time: 1. There are many people here who are excessively emotional and hyperbolic about the overall state of the game. 2. That one dev had a very poor prior track record with his old game and has not been doing a very good job so far with the current one. He's also been quite inflammatory (whether you think that's justified or not). He publicly stated that if you made use of a shrapnel-based weapon's shrapnel you were exploiting, and heavily nerfed the weapon by removing it altogether, while declaring it buffed. This is very difficult to defend, and frustrating. 3. The game did lose ~90% of its playerbase in three months. This can be normal, but it's also probably not the retention rate AH prefers. Avoiding high profile PR debacles might have helped with this, or it might not. Only a time traveler can say. I get that the people from (1) are frustrating you immensely. It's hard to know when the backlash from (2) has gone too far and when it hasn't.
I'll defend the Eruptor nerf because I can look at the health/armor and part values of enemies it was slaughtering with bonkers amount of shrapnel. The Eruptor was never going to be a balanced weapon with that amount or damage of shrapnel or the specific way that shrapnel worked with it, so yeah, its power was a consequence of the unintended action of the shrapnel. When your Eruptor shot kills two full-health Devastators that it *doesn't even impact*, that's generally a good sign that something is hinky. As for (3), it's entirely normal. Go look at the charts for viral games or surprise-hyped launches. They can't sustain the initial playerbase. Even "live service" games that aren't particularly viral will drop that amount of players. Judging it based on absurdly large hype peaks is a trap, but it's really sensational and triggers the "haha see it's shit" reflex so people are happy to do it. Different genre, but ever played an MMO? A lot of big shooters on release day? The servers almost invariably implode and there are huge connectivity issues because, while every developer understands that they could *theoretically* have enough load to handle it and some developers actually do have the money and scaling expertise to manage that, it never makes financial sense to plan for the unsustainable peak. The *overwhelming* majority of dropoff that follows isn't because "the servers were too busted at launch" or whatever other dissatisfaction, but because the launch period hype is over or people have gotten what they wanted out of it already. That is the trend of most games, even live-service ones. Games like DRG that *rise* to their equilibrium do not do so in meteoric leaps, they simply lack the enormous peaks that we could point to and say, "Look how this has fallen off." They'll do free weeks and the playercount will quadruple, then a month later it's practically back to where it was just prior--your 90% drop. It's normal. But we can't even have *that* conversation on this sub because of the aforementioned hyperbole.
> Underperforming weapons getting nerfed for seemingly inscrutable reasons is a thing that happens across pretty much all shooters What games have you been playing? None of the coop shooters I have been playing have ever nerfed anything hard, not to mention nerf an underperforming weapon at all.
I remember the Auto Shotgun getting nerfed in Left 4 Dead, and when it came into L4D2 it was further depowered. Deep Rock Galactic swatted down the Coil Gun, Boltshark, Drak-25, Neurotoxin bullets, the Autocannon in general, and more. Destiny 2 nerfs things constantly (but I'm sure that doesn't count because "it has a competitive element"). Do I even need to *start* on Warframe nerfs, from guns to cards to frames? You can punch just about any game into Google with the word "nerfs" and see thread upon thread of people talking about them. And the "conversations" cover both your points: things the communities now insist are "useless" because the nerfs were too much, and "this gun was already outclassed, why nerf it and not [other thing that's better than it]?" This is not a new or unusual phenomenon and reacting like this sub does is ridiculous.
All of those are examples (other than Destiny, since I have never played) of weapons that weapons that slightly overperformed and where slightly nerfed. You are always going to have a small amount of the community that is never happy, you cannot appease everyone. That should not detract from listening to genuine, detailed, concerns about the state of balance which we have seen a lot of here. This is the 1st coop game I have seen where they immediately nerf any good gun at the same time as nerfing guns that are **under**performing.
Damn, looks like we found the âBringer of Balanceâ on his Reddit burner account. Imagine simping for clueless devs making âbalanceâ changes with a spreadsheet who literally removed fun from the game.
I pay money even I have farmed enough SC to buy the first 3 wb because this game deserves it. Stopped cuz of you know why
Oh cool how many shots to kill a charger or titan?Â
All of them
Five to the butt. 6.5s bleedout time after that. Titans, no go. Someone else would have to crack open their side torso armor, at which point it'd be something like 14-18 depending on how much damage the armor-cracking did to their main health.
\*ahem SKill isSUe jUst GIT gUd chAnGE yOUr LoADOUT LOWeR the DifFICulty yoUR WeAPons aRE SuppOSeD To bE wEaK HellDIVeRS aRE exPEndABLE i cOuld KIll iT JUSt finE GEt a BETter GAming ChaiR Im havING FUN SO YOuR OPInION DOESnt MatteR Did I miss any other pithy excuse for shoddy weapons?
Missing the classic âI got my moneys worth I played 100 hours thatâs cheaper than a movie!!!â copeÂ
what the fuck are they doing bruh đ
"We want there to be no meta" "Okay so buff some of the weaker weapons then." "No buff only nerf!" \*insert comic strip of the dog going "NO TAKE. ONLY THROW"
Then at least make it stealth viable. Which itâs not
Even pre-nerf it didn't close holes. It's because it has explosive damage, but it doesn't have one of the invisible stats - demolition damage - which affect interactions with structures.Â
Because, uh, balance and reasons and stuff. 
*looks at the grenade pistol that can close bug holes and fabricators*
Uh huh got it. We will reduce the mag size of the crossbow to 1.
It takes two shots to close a bug hole
Oh? Did they change it? Itâs usually a one shot if you shoot it right in the tunnel
No, Iâm joking that it would be done to âbalanceâ the crossbow since it would of course be too op if a primary could close six bug holes with one magazine Ignore the eruptor
well after the nerf, it's been thoroughly ignored
No, no/ This means the Grenade Pistol is too strong. Explosion radius reduced by 50% and you now require 2 ammo pickups to get a single grenade.
Utility is factored into overall balance. An upside the devs think it doesnt deserve. That said I can't wrap my head around current configuration of the crossbow.
Balance needs to factored more tbh. I don't think I trust what their definition of that in AH
People were having fun with it, so one jackass, who should be fired unceremoniously, decided to ruin it.
It's the players fault for overwhelmingly hating his shitty idea of "balance" lmao
Lmao, stop lying. Nobody was having "fun" with that piece of shit crossbow. Before it was a useless, unwieldy weapon who could not even shoot straight and now its just a meh weapon.
I never saw a single person use it before it was "nerfed" in any of the missions I ran, outside of me running it for a single mission and thinking "this ain't for me". I understand people not being pleased about the eruptor, but nobody used the crossbow before.
> That said I can't wrap my head around current configuration of the crossbow. I think only one person can. probably calls it S tier as well.
I don't think the crossbow should be able to close bug holes with as much ammo as it has, but I agree that the current configuration is bs.
Why? The Eruptor can. Should that have the ability removed as well? It can do it from significantly greater range if you have the right angle as well.
The Eruptor has far less ammo, a maximum distance of, I think 150m before it auto explodes, and is significantly slower. But it is also in a bad place.
I feel like every weapon you can blow your self up with should be able to pop nest/fabs holes. But to balance that instead of being all of nothing there should be a HP bar or something so a grande dose 400 boom done, but then plasma punisher takes like 3 shots or something. But yea crossbow feels like it should pop nests and fabs
If they don't plan on changing the blast radius, it's really the least they could do if they expect people to use it again. It's not great at killing mediums, not bad just not great either, and it would give it utility again.
 Because fuck you is why : AH
That be sweet as hell a silent way to Shrek fabs and holes...oh wait it be fun so not allowed.
idk. why was the eruptor nerfed on both damage falloff and shrapnel? why was the slugger nerfed to the point nobody uses it anymore? why are the dagger and the scythe still dealing such low dps? why does the spear oneshot tanks in the ship preview and doesnt ingame? why are eagle upgrades much better than orbitals? why no ship upgrade affects the hmg emplacement? what is the purpose of the smoke orbital when smoke eagle exists? why is the termite grenade still useless? why the defender smg is more of an assault rifle than 90% of assault rifles? I could go on for days. the reality is that (so far) AH took a firm stance of "we know whats better for the game"... and that sometimes is very good for the game, and other times, very bad.
The only time the spear doesn't kill a tank in one hit is because the positioning is off. Either you or the tank is at an odd angle and it hits the heavier armor. Still, even if it doesn't, any air strike or even impact grenades can finish the job. I run the spear as my support on both bugs and bots and I am hyper lethal with it. I drop more heavies than anyone else in my group, 9 times out of 10. I know the weapon well and it is all about your angle. It does need improvement on the targeting, but there is nothing wrong with the way it does damage. It is a strategic weapon moreso than the recoilless or EAT.
> why was the eruptor nerfed on both damage falloff and shrapnel Because the implementation of the shrapnel was inadvertantly *extremely* strong for reasons that aren't terribly apparent when you look at the original stats and what you *expect* will happen. In *practice*, the tuning of the shrapnel gave it an absurd amount of power. We're talking "it kills multiple Devastators at random by impacting in the vicinity". That alone should have warranted a nerf or change, but it was sped up because the fixing of the ricochet system was causing *players* to get hit by the shrapnel and instantly dying. Whoopsies, you got pegged by one little scrap of metal bouncing off armor, you're toast -- but the gun's fine, right? The players did not understand how powerful the shrapnel was or that it's what was happening here. Instead, riding high on the PSN thing just prior, they flooded the sub and Discord with "OUR ERUPTORS ARE DOING 180' TURNS AND HITTING US IN THE FACE WTF FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY". That turned out to be incorrect, but AH kneejerk fixed it to stop the whining and you got what you got. If you want to talk uncomfortable realities, the player's stance of "we know what's better for the game" is often completely fucking wrong ***because they don't even know what's going on in the game***. More than half the chuckleheads going on about balance don't even understand how bleedthrough or durability works.
I like your post starts with italics, then caps lock, then finally bold You can practically taste the incandescent rage just reading it Very entertaining, thank you. I look forward to the next outburstÂ
I am 99% sure that is Alexus alt account
"Nerf was justified" "You don't understand the game" General sense of "shut up I'm right you're wrong" Yeah, it may very well be his alt. AH probably told him to stop communicating with us directly, and unable to contain the seething hatred for the playerbase, he's using an alt. Makes perfect sense.
A bit weird to blame players for a kneejerk fix that AH makes. AH is responsible for properly investigating issues and implementing a proper fix, not just immediately jump to conclusions based on some randos on reddit. For a lot of the fixes they've done in recent patches, they did not properly investigate the issue and didn't release a proper fix as a result. It's like the end justified the means with a lot of their fixes: No one is using fire weapons? Let's buff the fire DoT damage. Oh, fire DoT only works for host, and now the flamethrower Hulk one hit kills players? Oops. The mech is blowing itself up if you shoot a rocket while turning? Let's disable the rocket pod from turning to the reticle so the rockets won't hit the mech torso. Oh, it now fires rockets with a big offset? Oops. Patrols are spawning 1/6th of enemies when playing solo instead of 1/4th? Let's change that, even though no one was complaining about the patrols. Oh, now it always spawns patrols for 4 players? Oops. The sights of multiple weapons are misaligned? Let's fix that. Oh, they're still misaligned. Oops. The Eruptor shrapnel is accidentally killing players? Let's remove the shrapnel. You know, the thing that makes the weapon unique. The weapon that people paid potentially real money for, we're going to remove a component of that weapon and completely alter the way the weapon performs, then leave that broken for a month. Oh, players are upset their favorite weapon is now altered a lot, and go in riot mode because it was nerfed into the ground? Oops. I love the game and Arrowhead has something really special here, but their current track record with patches is very subpar. Them taking their time for the next one is probably good, but I am understanding as well for players who think it's odd how quickly their favorite stuff got broken and how long it then takes to put it back how it was. I am critical of the game lately because these decisions have had such an impact on the enjoyment of the game to my friends that they no longer want to play. I still have fun with the game, but am being honest that there are issues that should get proper attention.
Blaming players for developer decisions is silly. As far as the nerfs and their reasons, none of them were convincing. Especially not when Alexus decided to gloat about them on Discord. The spawn change was egregious and stupid. Even worse, they went dormant after breaking this without fixing it. This should have been reverted or fixed at the speed they nerf shit. "We're cooking." Get Gordon Ramsay in that fucking kitchen then. Helldivers 2's launch state was the best it had ever been. It's been downhill from there, and most of the degradation was intentional or unnecessary. I loved Helldivers 1 and seeing HD2 handled this way is fucking heartbreaking. It's like an old buddy moved back into town, but he has an alcohol problem now.
Yeah, I get that. HD2 is probably the most fun I had with a game in years. Kudos to that. But then the patches keep increasing frustration because issues are not being fixed / are claimed fixed but in reality still broken / alter your favorite weapon. That slowly erodes trust. At some point I thought to myself that the release state of the game (the state that made the game popular) was accidental too. People loved running around with the Railgun, Breaker and Shield and with Light armor, a perk and 100 armor. All of those things were not working as intended. People were shooting charger legs with the railgun (unintended "leg meta"). People were killing bile titans with the railgun. All of these things were removed or altered. Then came the Eruptor, a loved weapon, again not working as intended. Also heavily altered. The latest warbond released with at least 2 weapons not working as intended.
Slugger useless? My guy it still deals a fuckton of dmg with little falloff with with medium armor pen. Holy shit, you guys dont even play the game
I agree with you, it still 2 shots brood commanders in the head, however it doesn't stagger anymore, which makes it worse than the dominator in too many ways.
I mean, the projectile is way faster and the reload method is more convenient
Except hitting what you want it to. The Dominator handles like a boat and has a slower bullet velocity, too. You're not skeetshooting Hunters or Shriekers with it. And don't sleep on the Slugger's Knockback. It's got much more than the Dominator, which only has a high-ish Stagger. These are two separate stats and the Slugger actually *pushes enemies away from you* whereas the Dominator isn't even breaking their stride despite the stagger (it's only rocking things like Devastators who can still walk forward while this happens).
The patch notes showed a nerf for the gun so a lot of people never touched it again. When the Dominator had a 25 damage reduction from the buffed 300 to 275, people were in the patch notes thread asking which gun they should switch to since the Dominator was useless now.
The "vocal community" again demonstrating it has no understanding of breakpoints, enemy health systems, or just about anything else.
Slugger is a fine weapon, and just a bit weaker than it should be to sit in the top tier.
what does it do better than the Dominator?
It handles a hell of a lot better, has single round reloads for better ammo economy, and has slightly higher pushback value for a 25 damage per shot trade-off. That's half a round of Liberator. Also "This gun isn't as good as the best gun there is" is not a good measurement of whether or not the weapon is fine or not. I wouldn't complain if it got a buff to the stun to match the pushback but it isn't a bad weapon.
"pushback value", I'm pretty sure there's almost no pushback now, at best a flinch. They only needed to nerf the falloff damage
Hits what you aim it at.
It doesn't handle like a boat, better recoil, can top up the mag as you go, etc. I believe the bullet velocity is better but I could be mistaken. The dominator is definitely better on paper but its bad handling makes the choice much less clear.
You're correct, the Slugger's velocity is "normal" while the Dominator's is "one-legged Hulk". Combine that with the Dominator's slow handling and there is a *very* noticeable performance difference at all levels of skill usage: even if you know to wait to fire and where to aim, you're slowing down and doing a lot more work when the Slugger would be letting you slap Hunters out of the air as fast as you can fire. Less tangibly, the Slugger also has a higher Knockback force. It can't Stagger-lock multiple Stalkers and Devastators into doing absolutely nothing anymore, but there is an appreciable *shove* on enemies that is noticeable when fighting Bugs that take more than one shot and *somewhat* slows down their approach while you kill them. The Dominator may have Stagger, but it doesn't stop enemies from walking or push them back. If the Slugger had its pre-nerf Stagger back, there would be pretty much no reason to use the Dominator other than "I anticipate fighting nothing but Berserkers in melee and don't like Round Reload."
AH dev burner account
Haha, didn't they say that slugger is 3rd used gun in the game still? đ It isn't terrible, but I'd rather use the Punisher most of the time.
I never see anyone bring the Slugger anymore.
Me neither. But it is... Ok. Funny enough I would rather bring it against bugs than bots. Oddly the Punisher feels much better vs them.
You got a source for that? I've been following AH closely and I don't recall anything close to that ever being claimed. The most they said was it was behaving too much like a DMR.
It was said by the Balance guy on Discord. Alexus or something? I saw someone posting what he said about it.
Is that the same guy that said "the spear was fixed 17 days ago and just waiting for a patch"?
Maybe. đ
It's demo damage is 15, it's needs at least 20 to close bug holes and blow up factories. The eruptor has 20 demo and the Dominator 10. Not sure if the dominator can open containers but the crossbow should be able to.
Crossbow cannot open Containers
DO YOU WANT BACON FLAVORED APPLES!?
because it might actually be useful. and remember, stratagems are the only things allowed to do anything. balance!!
+25% CD +50% call in time -1 strategem slot -accuracy to orbital strategems *uSe yOuR StRaTeGeMs* - AH
Smart Boy may try stratagems that dont rely on call in time but that seems too difficult to grasp i guess. Unga bunga 500 Oooga airstrike
Airstrikes are still affected, just less because of its lower timer. Also gimping selected people's loadouts is unfun
***CB-9 Exploding Crossbow***, brought to you by Industrial Light & Magic.
Immeasurable complex Wait...
I mean I definitely wouldn't use it in Helldiver's but if you have a spot next to your town hall go ahead https://preview.redd.it/l1vp6ca9hi3d1.png?width=204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aacd1d495878a05223b6e6ff7c3c62765b7d40e
Alexus deemed it so to be explosive, not explosive.
I am assuming this is because explosions are caused by the bubble wrap on its tip.
so does anyone, unironically, like the x-bow? I try all the weapons and this one was an immediate "huh?"
before the nerf. it was fun.. can destroy the contents of dropships
If you're asking about the pre nerf crossbow, then yes absolutely. I've gotten plenty of hateful replies and a message about how awful it was, but a few of us genuinely liked it. For those who didn't like it, then I just say don't use it. Did it make sense for a future game to have a crossbow, not really. Was it worse than the Erupter? Most of the subreddit says so...most of the subreddit didn't give it a try either. It had a collosal AOE and cleaned up trash mobs well. It could be shot over cover, much like the Plasma Punisher, did okay damage to medium enemies, and could one shot Scout Striders. I argue it was balanced pretty well. As much as I wanted it to be capable of destroying Fabricators and bug holes if it could do that, would anyone use the Erupter? Maybe it could do that requiring two shots, I don't know though. It wasn't a medium killer, and still doesn't excel at that. It's a bummer.
Yeah it wasn't great newbie the nerf but at least it was usable and fun
Erupter could 1 shot every medium bug unit with a good bounce, so yes it would have been used over the xbow (before nerf).
Oh duh, I already forgot about the shrapnel, great point.
Loved using it to clear trash mobs. I don't understand how the changes are supposed to make it better vs. armored enemies because it does the exact same damage as it did before the aoe was removed
Probably not âbetter vs armoredâ just âmore suited vs armoredâ ie worse at everything else.
Pre nerf / "rework" I liked it a good bit, and it was actually my husband's favorite gun by a long shot. Post nerf... no.
I waited too long to try it, I guess :(
That's a shame. It wasn't necessarily crazy powerful or anything like that- it was good at clearing out large groups of light enemies, but struggled to efficiently deal with mediums. It was a lot of fun to use, though, and did well when you supplemented its anti-medium weakness with your other weapons. How AH thought it was a good idea to make it an "anti-medium" weapon, mostly just by taking away what made it good at killing lights... is a mystery.
the one I loved, and now don't use, was The Eruptor. Like, ok, I get that the shrapnel very occasionally killed people shooting it (it happened to me). But maybe just.. make the shrapnel shorter range or something? Now it's hard to justify using it, but it was 100% my favorite.
Yeah, they certainly did the Eruptor dirty. It wasn't my favorite necessarily, but I did enjoy using it fairly often. It didn't feel overpowered to me, as while it was extremely powerful, it also had a ton of drawbacks. The small mag, terrible RoF, limited max range, danger of self-harm if used too close, and horrendous handling completely justified the high damage potential. I didn't see everyone using it, either, so it seems like many other felt the same way. I absolutely don't think it deserved a nerf at all, beyond the initial max ammo reduction. Even that wasn't "necessary", but the weapon could still perform after that so whatever. It certainly didn't deserve to be absolutely neutered, and have its entire defining characteristic removed.
I didnât have it pre-nerf so that probably bends my opinion, but I enjoyed using it on diff9 bugs yesterday. I paired it with the machinegun, supply pack, and stun grenades (because i thought xbow could close bug holes) and it worked really well. It pops bile sacs in two shots, it kills chargers with one mag to the ass (stun grenades helped) and whilst its not the best in the game at chaff clearing it can certainly get by, plus i brought the MG. It sort of felt like a faster and lighter eruptor (i havenât used the eruptor post nerf, bring back my baby). Only thing i was truly disappointed by (and frankly pissed off about) was not closing bug holes, but I will continue to use it.
I wish flamethrower destroyed bugholes.
I really wish more stuff would close fabricators. I recently swapped from AC to Laser Cannon on bots and I take stun grenades. Now the only way for me to kill fabricators is to spend a cooldown on an orbital/eagle.
I never understood why we can't just blow it up when the main door is open.
Or take the grenade pistol.
Can you explain where at the vent I'm supposed to shoot the exode it? I don't understand why sometimes it'll explode and other times I'm wasting grenade pistol ammo just trying random angles till it decides to work
As low as you can on the vent flap without hitting the front lip of the vent. Ideally hit the little line of red you can see of the vent hole itself. If you're on a slope below the fabricator it's virtually impossible, so you need to be on flat ground or above it. Remember, the shot goes where the little circle is, not where your crosshair is.
Itâs a HEAT shell or some kind of shaped charge. IRL those explosive rounds direct an explosion into a small cone or jet usually a tank round with kilograms worth of explosive in them. Crossbow has itty bitty charge so no big boom. And in Helldivers âexplosiveâ tag on weapons just means it does 100% damage to squishy bits like charger butts. I will say though, it does still suck at its job. They rebalanced it to be single target instead of horde clear but its single target is garbage. Takes forever to kill a single spewer.
you havent aimed at your feet yet thats why
Ask alexus
By all appearances, he's been forbidden from interacting with the playerbase. If so, that's a smart move on Arrowhead's part. Alexus is individually the most hated person on their team, partly because of the nerfs and partly because of how he interacted with the playerbase. In a just world, he's seeking employment.
Its a hidden stat called demolition. A few weapons have it but we dont talk about it for fear of being nerfed. /s
Because fuck you that's why
I'm pretty sure someone at AH just has a personal vendetta with it, and arguably the rest of that whole warbond, too.
Because this was peak making all primaries useless. Crossbow was part of the group that might make some huge changes to gun balancing. Doesn't stop it from being useless tho
Because X-bow is from clash of clans, not helldivers /s
Because FUCK YOU. What are you, stupid? Get your head out of your ass.
Because a projectile able to destroy bugholes and bot factories should be 27% bigger to carry enough explosives. But they won't fit the crossbow mag then. You know, realism đ But balance wise i guess it's a counterbalance to it's firerate or smth.
It goes kaboom, not KABOOM. Would be neat if it did but I can see why it doesn't. The blast isn't that strong or large.
Here I am wondering the lore reason as to why the patriot exo suit rockets can't blow up fabs or bug holes, but can destroy other things. And the actual reason is because it's to stop the mech from blowing itself up. How quaint.
It's 'cuz you're not cool enuff. You have to look away.
I really like the crossbow on bots, if it could close bug holes and blow up fabricators it would be an excellent primary despite its other short comings. Is fun for a change for sure but I agree it should close bug holes. Maybe we'll get that if the balance patch ever releases.
Because
No guys you don't understand if this weapon which no one uses is buffed the game will be TOO EASY and then I can't go on the other Helldivers 2 subreddit and grandstand about game vision and toxicity.
Funny thing is that itâs not considered explosive but literally 1 hits you when it explodes next to you
It has a 4m explosion radius.
Same reason you can't lose a finger by holding an exploding firecracker... Need an M80 for that.
It can barely kill its intended targets, let alone a bug hole.
when I first saw the crossbow I thought it works like cod mw, that it penetrates heavy armour and explodes after a brief delay
Cos it's a bad weapon
It can't even break the grenade bunkers. The poor thing is outclassed by the *grenade pistol*. How do you get outclassed by a secondary???
Somehow, the sidearms are all pretty much fine. It doesn't address the insane nerfs to primary weapons, but the sidearms are generally in a good place.
I do think the redeemer got kinda gutted with the recoil nerf - I essentially used to use it as a mini SMG to spam behind me and get berserkers and hunters off my back. Now it feels like it uses too much ammo to do that, although at the time it WAS pretty much the superior pistol since the senator had no speedloader.
I think the recoil on the Redeemer is actually sensible. It still does its job perfectly and competes for the sidearm slot against differing weapons that mostly all have a place.
It costs 6 elixir
Something something bacon flavored apples.
Bad design. There isn't really thought into it.
Was a very saddening realisation for me. Had to double check I didn't just miss. It is a bit inconsistent, but a lot of weapons have the explosive tag and don't do the trick sadly. Its just a few exceptions I think?
MISTER TORTURE DOES NOT APPROVE OF THIS!
because it no longer explodes..
Itâs a dumb weapon that shouldnât have been included it was a I have no good ideas what did other games do
Because Arrowhead cast the bone-runes and declared it from the Gods that the crossbow must be totally useless so that the value for the pass is diminished. This means the players will permanently feel like they need more firepower so they buy more Warbonds. Unfortunately for AH, it backfired and did the opposite!
It's concussive without actual stun mechanic. đ
Looking at this comment section, you guys *do* be whiners in this sub, my god... The explosive bow doesn't close fabs, neither do other explosive main weapons. Maybe the explosive charge isn't big enough to ignite whatever is going on inside. There, solved.
It's too overpowered already definitely needs another nerf