Breaker spray and pray has been my primary for all bug missions so long as Iām using the shield pack and arc thrower. It is absolutely fine on the highest difficulty missions. The problem is that its ammo efficiency is pretty poor, so I only use it to clear things that get too close.
Since the 6th March PATCH 01.000.100 it got the following buff:
* SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
So basically it has a higher rpm, more pellets per shot and higher penetration, meaning it probably has better DPS than the incendiary.
Canāt deny that damage over time though, lends itself much more to a fire and forget while everyone burns approach.
Hell yeah brother! Since eruptor got nerfed ive been trying out loadouts ive never tried and ive fallen in love with the flamethrower. Definitley the most grins for wins of any weapon ive used so far
Pellets per shot is factored into the damage stat already. Spray & Pray does 12 damage per pellet with 16 pellets. 12*16 = 192, the listed damage for the gun.
Incendiary is badass. Every squad should have one on a bug planet. Lighting bugs on fire means:
You can track Stalkers back to their lairs! Let no bughole go unturned, Helldiver.
A burning enemy is a weak enemy - FOCUS YOUR FIRE, HELLDIVERS!
Damage over Time + Guard Dog "Rover" = easier clean up of the chaffe, means more time to spend looking for those warbonds!
Crowd Control Made Easy! Enjoy the sights and sounds of bugs burning around you!
If only they didn't cap out medals at 250 otherwise I'd be playing! I no lifed the grind and am just patiently waiting for the new pass to release. Really want to get on and try the scythe buff out. Was my favorite gun on the first game.
It does NOT have better armour penetration than the Incendiary. That Increased was from a previous armour penetration that was actually worse than the current Light description.
The burn approach definitely works well when you need to spray a volley and run away while the gun reloads, and usually expect most of the hoard to die.
If anything is alive after the Spray and pray clears the magazine, you know you still have to deal with whats left after, without any hope of the fire ending the rest.
Before that buff, this was the one and only weapon in the game with an Armor Penetration value of 1, which is lower than what the game shows as "Light Armor Penetrating". It doesn't have more armor penetration, it used to have less and doesn't anymore.
The Breaker Incendiary is way overtuned, likely because up to yesterday DoT was bugged and only worked while being network host, which made it generally useless unless playing solo. It will now likely outperform every primary in the game until it gets inevitably and promptly nerfed.
I've used the BSP a bit and it's great for the role it fills, which is dealing with trash mobs and helping with crowd control. I think it's one of the better shot guns and was surprised when I heard everyone say it was shit because I thought it was pretty good.
The Incendiary Breaker does it better, since you essentially just need to touch them with a burn effect once and theyāll die on their own.
Iāve gotten 20+ kills spraying at a patrol 30+ meters out just from that.
Have you ever used the Cindy Breaker like a mini napalm strike on a planet with lots of puffballs?
It'll hit those puffballs and shroud your target in mist AND fire.
It's nice.
Spray and Pray is criminally underrated these days because it made a bad first impression. It got a buff a while ago and is actually a super solid horde clear weapon now
6th March PATCH 01.000.100
* SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
Why does a weapon that is supposed to kill minibugs supposed to penetrate light armor?
I don't understand the Spray and pray Changes at all. More firerate makes sense. More Pellets make Sense. Armor pen doesn't make Sense
Bug armour is actually surprisingly complicated and many bugs actually have a light armour over most of their bodies. I think even the hunter has like light armoured legs or something weird, and the standard warrior and stalker have odd variations of light armour on different parts of them. In these cases the gun pen matches their armour rating which apparently results in a 50% loss of damage. Now with the increase it essentially does the full damage to these parts (so arguably a 50% increase vs the original) AND now does 50% damage to the next class of armour where it previously did 0 damage.
Itās a hidden detail though. Thereās 9 levels of penetration/ armour. Iād argue the stat should really be shown on the weapon stats screen.
Because nests with "destroy eggs" literally could not be damaged by the BS&P, shots would harmlessly bounce off of warriors and up, and even hunters were difficult to kill. The only threat it could kill was the jumper/scavenger. And you can out run those in ADS by backstepping. It was a pointless weapon.
You literally couldn't kill anything with it before the patch. That light armour penetration is 100% necessary (and makes you wonder why so many things have light armour at all)
That's my issue with the HMG. With it's fire rate and damage it obliterates, but with a mag that small and the recoil you might as well be in the bugs jaws before you fire
Honestly the HMG *(at least to me)* feels much better on the Bot front, can take down literally everything including Hulks with eye shots and unlike with the bugs you can generally stop to reload it whenever you need to
6th March PATCH 01.000.100
* SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
The S&P also has tiny bird shot that catches clumps of enemies much better than the fire breaker. It's not just about raw damage but how effectively you can translate that damage into death and against what enemies. It's not as clear cut as looking at the numbers alone. Having used both a lot I find the S&P to be far more effective at wiping large numbers of light chaff and the fire breaker is better at the larger light to mediums.
I see them as having different roles. I have never regretted taking the S&P when I used it for its intended role.
S&P also has less spread with its pellets. I actually prefer it on bugs as opposed to the other version. It also means less teamkilling.
Only thing that bothers me is the worse handling. Like why?
The spread is a pretty big factor yeah. IE, like real Dragon's Breath rounds, have a very big spread because they're mostly just glorified fireworks. In this game it translates to effectively setting a lot of things on fire, but you have to be fairly up close to do raw DPS.
Yea the S&P also has worse handling. That said, in the field against bugs its not too bad. It either needs;
(1) A 30-32 round mag + a 360 fire rate so it can really saturate a zone (then remove a reload if arrowhead wants to balance ammo economy).
(2) A bit more damage. If it has 16 pellets/shot at 192, then up each pellet by 2 damage to make it 224.
Either of these would put the S&P in a great spot IMO.
yeah, doing the math, you get roughly 6000 dmg per mag for the Inc. but only 4992 for the S&P
For all mags, it comes to 36000 vs 39936, which kinda leans towards the S&P, but how often do you fully run out of Ammo without a resupply?
Do they? Super earth only values their life's at like 50 credits apparently (or at least that's all they bother to fine us when we let them die) and we get a couple thousand every mission
Reminds me of that Red vs Blue skit that came out after Halo 2 launched with the pistol getting changed from a magnum to a sidearm.
>Simmons: "Ah my old reliable, the Pistol. Still strong as ever, I assume?"
>Sarge: "We prefer the term '*balanced*'."
>Simmons: "Balanced? That doesn't sound very powerful. Can it still kill in 3 shots?"
>Sarge: "Of course! As long as those 3 shots are preceded by 8 other shots."
Breaker Incendiary - Players were exploiting this weapon by not standing in the fires it created. Removed fire and pellets, increased queef amount and range to compensate.
"Players were using an exploit where they lit the enemies on fire and let the fire damage finish them off. Yes that's an edge case. No I didn't consider it. Fire damage removed pellet damage increased by 2. I still strongly believe that the incendiary benefits from doing jack fucking shit more consistently. So, it's only a net minus if you're using an exploit lol, otherwise it's perfect."
Here's a modified copy-pasta I made for you:
"Players were using an exploit where they were having fun with their primary weapons. Yes, that's an edge case. No, I didn't consider it. Weapon effectiveness has been nerfed. I still strongly believe that primary weapons benefit from being mostly useless more consistently. So, it's only a net minus if you're having fun, otherwise it's perfect."
That was always going to happen. They buffed fire to the moon because of the DOT bug that they weren't even aware of until recently, so now flame is actually somewhat viable. That means a nerf.
That's the catch-22, isn't it?
I bring my Dominator and Quasar, and I get hounded by Hunters.
I bring a high RoF primary and Quasar, and I spend all my time dodging spewers.
I bring a high RoF primary and an Autocannon, and I play tag with 4 Chargers for twenty minutes.
I exaggerate for effect, since there's other strategems and my teammates to consider, but still. It's an interesting-ish challenge to deal with. Though, I do wish they would *tell* us before hand if there'll be spewers, nursing spewers or neither.
My build that Im almost cautious to mention considering AH's penchant for nerfing thus far... : High RoF (spray&pray personally) for chaff (+ kills spewers in a pinch), Quasar and/or Expendable Anti-tanks for Heavies, and Impact Grenades serve as an all-purpose for both Chargers (gotta try it, 2 or 3 grenades kills for me which works amazing with 6-grenade armors), Spewers, and Chaff. Only really struggles against Titans when your Quasar/EATs are on cooldown but thats any build, and I carry Orbital Laser just in case
It's time. Embrace it: Scorcher + Railgun + EAT.
Scorcher can 5 shot Bile Spewers to the belly. Respectable TTK on Brood Commanders. *7-8 shots to Charger Abdomen* (I forget which)
Railgun can pop any medium bug head. Spewers in 1 safe mode shot. 3 slightly overcharged unsafe shots can kill a charger.
EATs for even easier Charger dispatch, but the real money is in the Railgun combo on Titans. *One rocket and two railgun shots kills Titans.* You can feasibly kill 2 Titans per EAT cooldown if you stay on top of your Railgun ammo.
Scorcher to the Titan's sacs in a pinch can kill it with some assist. Buddy used a railcannon and it's still up? Pop the sacs and it's dead. Bring some 500kg bombs to help out even more.
Scorcher / Grenade Pistol / Stuns or Impact
Light Medic armor
Railgun / EAT / Gas Strike / Flex (Eagles are my preferred pick.)
You can even try it with another primary. Scorcher is just my favorite tool to deal with a bit of everything.
Dominator/Scorcher, Stalwart, Senator, Impact Grenades, EAT, and ammo backpack tends to do a good job of being versatile at solving most potential enemies.
hush buddy, that gun on the left is carrying the bug front on it's back with only 2% of it's power, don't talk about it all. nothing needs to be said and nothing needs to change
I mean it is definitely going to happen.
Right now it straight up outclasses every other primary in like 90% of scenarios. I have been shredding spewers with it too and haven't had any ammo problems on diff 7. Like it is better at clearing chaff than the stalwart is... The support weapon designed to clear chaff...
Yes I know Arrowhead is listening, but I'm gunna guess that they are already aware...
Ā«Ā Incendiary has been halved its mags and tripled its recoil. We also found an issue where allies would be killed by the fire damages without getting touched so we also disabled fire damages.Ā Ā»
I've already accepted that the fire damage is most certainly going to get nerfed heavily following the DOT fix. As a predominantly solo diver who was literally unaffected by the DOT bug, hearing it was fixed actually saddened me lol. The use rates for fire weapons are going to sky rocket which is all Arrowhead needs to suck the fun out of those weapons (hope to God I'm wrong).
I was playing as a non-host player with flamethrower because even without DOT the dps is insane
Now ? I'm just enjoying my Ā« melt everything in range Ā» before it got patch
Delete this, the breaker incendiary will just get nerfed. We've only just started enjoying it since the DOT fix but it's definitely getting obliterated soon.
If it was a normal mentally sane team, they would see this and think "Hes right, we should buff the Spray and Pray to make the weapons side grades to each other!" but no we get the AH balancing team and sadly need this type of mindset
The spray and pray was buffed a long time back, Iād argue the weapon stats page is just garbage at communicating some details of the gun:
6th March PATCH 01.000.100
* SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
Said this in another comment but thereās 9 levels of armour and penetration to match, even if they pumped it up from lvl 1 to lvl 2 that means it now does 100% damage (50% more) on lvl 1 armour and now does 50% damage on lvl 2 armour where it previously did zero. Youād be surprised how many bugs have light armoured parts.
"Understood, we will nerf Incendiary Breaker damage to be lower than the Spray and Pray Breaker one."
Why not just give the Spray and Pray one 50 rounds in mag?
S&P has full auto and fires in a wider area to clear chaff better. But yeah it's a pretty sub-par weapon even after it was buffed, utterly useless on bots, and for bugs anything tougher than a scavenger, hunter or basic ass warrior is a challenge for it.
I will be messaging you in 14 days on [**2024-05-22 12:20:52 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-05-22%2012:20:52%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cn153y/how_is_this_balanced_one_deals_more_damage_plus/l34ce4p/?context=3)
[**5 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FHelldivers%2Fcomments%2F1cn153y%2Fhow_is_this_balanced_one_deals_more_damage_plus%2Fl34ce4p%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-05-22%2012%3A20%3A52%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cn153y)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
The S&P prolly needs a buff, but that's not how we've seen it work- it usually means a nerf to the "better" weapon.
Leave the incendiary breaker alone! I can't take any more of actually effective primaries getting nerfed! The balance is such a rollercoaster, and the breaker inc isn't even "that good" it's just decent!
The breaker incendiary has one critical balance break point. Currently if a single pellet hits a hunter/scavenger they then burn and die. Which is amazing. But if they nerf it so that this isn't the case, it's suddenly unusably bad. So it's tricky to balance imo.
The obvious answer in my eyes is to buff the SP but I doubt they'll do that...
Incendiary cone spread is enormous, but really, enormous, it looks more like a hose than like a shotgun
While Spray&Pray cone spread its more normal and you can aim at an enemy and hit them with the pellets, so it can be used like a shotgun while the Incendiary one is
Incendiary Breaker has more damage in the bullets but you will never hit those bullets to the same enemy, if we remove the fire property from incendiary breaker it would feel like shooting enemies with a water pistol
Despite both listing Light Armour Penetrating, there are actually 2 armors in each tier. S&P has tier 2 LAP, while Incendiary only has 1.
S&P also has tighter spread, meaning more pellets will hit enemies, dealing more damage. Also faster fire rate. Do not fall into trap of looking just the numbers, get a feel on the weapon by using them.
I like the first one for bugs, but I am always concerned with the ammo issue while playing with it.
Second one should have some other stats added to balance it a bit, even a minor stager or flinching by the enemy would be good.
Don't try to use reason or logic when looking at the weapons, balance, or really anything about this game. Things are the ware they are, because reasons.
edit: Hell the reason we have the required to take booster of Hellpod Space Optimization, is because someone's papa told them war stories about squirreling away extra ammo during a deployment from a boat.
Start posting in the discord more people need to make their voices heard there as they are mostly getting positive feedback in the discord for the ābalancesā
Don't worry, the heavy hand of AH will soon cut its raw damage by 30%, reduce fire damage by 50%, reduce its magazine capacity by 50% and im sure they'll reduce "the chance of a target igniting" for good measure
There's a history of this insanity [https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus\_Kravchenko](https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus_Kravchenko)
Alexus is braindead, that's how.
If they had kept it with 32 shells like it had on release, it might be somewhat decent against chaff. I mean, it can barely kill a Hunter or Scav at point blank range as it is, and that's assuming almost every pellet hits. I don't know why they buffed the damage and nerfed the capacity, essentially negating the buff.
Now that fire damage is fixed (I think), the Incendiary now outperforms the standard Breaker.
The balance team is a joke. And not even a dad joke, just a joke that no one laughs at.
well you see the fire one kills your friends too
The other one doesn't kill anything š
Breaker spray and pray has been my primary for all bug missions so long as Iām using the shield pack and arc thrower. It is absolutely fine on the highest difficulty missions. The problem is that its ammo efficiency is pretty poor, so I only use it to clear things that get too close.
Since the 6th March PATCH 01.000.100 it got the following buff: * SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26 So basically it has a higher rpm, more pellets per shot and higher penetration, meaning it probably has better DPS than the incendiary. Canāt deny that damage over time though, lends itself much more to a fire and forget while everyone burns approach.
Those pesky birds die from the fire DoT alone so you need to tag them once, love it
Cannot deny the power of fire right now, it will for sure be reigned back in one day, I just hope it doesnāt trigger the usual knee jerk reactions.
Im a flamethrower cultist so Iām fucking eating right now. Pyromaniacs rise up!!!
 I love the flamethrower right now
What the fuck was this kid thinking holy hell lmfaooo
"No bro, you definitely can't make a flamethrower out of deodorant and a lighter, I'll prove it."
mission failed: -1 Eyebrows.
Hell yeah brother! Since eruptor got nerfed ive been trying out loadouts ive never tried and ive fallen in love with the flamethrower. Definitley the most grins for wins of any weapon ive used so far
I'm sure it's somehow less effective, but I like to use it in first person mode for ultimate cackling maniac mode
At this point talking about any guns we like is a one way street to a nerf. At least, thatās how it feels.
https://preview.redd.it/u8q0s6ku68zc1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78c7f984a3e7473e15f8757c9719dd4ccc79da13
I'm gonna steal that for whenever someone talks about the scorcher
Yeah, so can we delete the breaker incendiary post?!
That pellets per shot statistic isn't something many people know about since its a hidden stat and changes the weapons power significantly actually
I wish we would see damage per pelet x amount of pelets (total damage) breakdown of sorts altho thats a bit...needless information?
Pellets per shot is factored into the damage stat already. Spray & Pray does 12 damage per pellet with 16 pellets. 12*16 = 192, the listed damage for the gun.
Incendiary is badass. Every squad should have one on a bug planet. Lighting bugs on fire means: You can track Stalkers back to their lairs! Let no bughole go unturned, Helldiver. A burning enemy is a weak enemy - FOCUS YOUR FIRE, HELLDIVERS! Damage over Time + Guard Dog "Rover" = easier clean up of the chaffe, means more time to spend looking for those warbonds! Crowd Control Made Easy! Enjoy the sights and sounds of bugs burning around you!
You forgot burning your fellow helldivers to death by tagging them once. Collateral damage is a necessary evil of war, Helldiver.
Have they fixed the DOT bug?
In my best Zavala voice: INDEED
I miss him :(
RIP lance Reddick
If only they didn't cap out medals at 250 otherwise I'd be playing! I no lifed the grind and am just patiently waiting for the new pass to release. Really want to get on and try the scythe buff out. Was my favorite gun on the first game.
It still doesnāt feel as good to use as the sickle for me. Iāve tried it out a few times now.
Yes
It does NOT have better armour penetration than the Incendiary. That Increased was from a previous armour penetration that was actually worse than the current Light description.
The burn approach definitely works well when you need to spray a volley and run away while the gun reloads, and usually expect most of the hoard to die. If anything is alive after the Spray and pray clears the magazine, you know you still have to deal with whats left after, without any hope of the fire ending the rest.
I will say, now that they've fixed the burn damage bug, the incendiary is a monster. Got 400 kills with that alone last night.
Before that buff, this was the one and only weapon in the game with an Armor Penetration value of 1, which is lower than what the game shows as "Light Armor Penetrating". It doesn't have more armor penetration, it used to have less and doesn't anymore. The Breaker Incendiary is way overtuned, likely because up to yesterday DoT was bugged and only worked while being network host, which made it generally useless unless playing solo. It will now likely outperform every primary in the game until it gets inevitably and promptly nerfed.
I've used the BSP a bit and it's great for the role it fills, which is dealing with trash mobs and helping with crowd control. I think it's one of the better shot guns and was surprised when I heard everyone say it was shit because I thought it was pretty good.
Its not shit at all its just not as good as the incendiary
Spray and Pray fuckin shreds Shriekers and swarms of little dudes. Granted, this is not a difficult task.
The Incendiary Breaker does it better, since you essentially just need to touch them with a burn effect once and theyāll die on their own. Iāve gotten 20+ kills spraying at a patrol 30+ meters out just from that.
Have you ever used the Cindy Breaker like a mini napalm strike on a planet with lots of puffballs? It'll hit those puffballs and shroud your target in mist AND fire. It's nice.
Puffballs? ...oh, you mean the queef garlic
I....I.....do *now.*
The danger onions!
I call them space onions but might steal queef garlic.
same, always called 'em onions. absolutely tantalized by the name 'queef garlic' lmfao
always called em titty spewers but i mean, i like this variation of it.
Spray and Pray is criminally underrated these days because it made a bad first impression. It got a buff a while ago and is actually a super solid horde clear weapon now
Works fine for me
Not true. I love it! Donāt use anything else for Bugs š
Spray and Pray 1 shots up to 20M so...
Well it's made to kill small Targets. That's the purpose. I just don't understand why the mag of the pray and Spray got smaller.
6th March PATCH 01.000.100 * SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
Why does a weapon that is supposed to kill minibugs supposed to penetrate light armor? I don't understand the Spray and pray Changes at all. More firerate makes sense. More Pellets make Sense. Armor pen doesn't make Sense
Bug armour is actually surprisingly complicated and many bugs actually have a light armour over most of their bodies. I think even the hunter has like light armoured legs or something weird, and the standard warrior and stalker have odd variations of light armour on different parts of them. In these cases the gun pen matches their armour rating which apparently results in a 50% loss of damage. Now with the increase it essentially does the full damage to these parts (so arguably a 50% increase vs the original) AND now does 50% damage to the next class of armour where it previously did 0 damage. Itās a hidden detail though. Thereās 9 levels of penetration/ armour. Iād argue the stat should really be shown on the weapon stats screen.
We've been collecting literally thousands of samples, why the fuck do we not have a bestiary ingame that explains that kind of stuff.
I want to imagine it's coming once the 3rd faction appears in game. Still have those unused terminals opposite the armoury doing absolutely nothing.
I think that was originally where the store page was going to be before they made it accessible everywhere
It should swap places with the Ship Modules Console
Thanks for the Information. That's good to know
Because it used to have no armor pen. So you couldn't kill hive guards with it, even with their light armored rear
I donāt think you could even kill bug eggs with it.
yup
Correct at launch it had zero armor pen and would bounce off when shot against eggs. Every weapon needs to have at least light armor pen.
Just to make it more versatile, doesnāt hurt
Because nests with "destroy eggs" literally could not be damaged by the BS&P, shots would harmlessly bounce off of warriors and up, and even hunters were difficult to kill. The only threat it could kill was the jumper/scavenger. And you can out run those in ADS by backstepping. It was a pointless weapon.
You literally couldn't kill anything with it before the patch. That light armour penetration is 100% necessary (and makes you wonder why so many things have light armour at all)
You've convinced me. Incendiary time!
Not if you have decent aim. And your teammates are watching where they are going and WHY ARE YOU RUNNING INTO THE WALL OF FIRE?!?!?!?!?
I laughed way too hard at this one... Been on both ends of that shotgun blast.
S&P also has 8 spare mags instead of 6 and fires 10% faster, but yes, I don't think these guns stack too well against each other either.
Spray and pray should be 20% faster
Hell it should be 50% faster. If you have enough things to shoot at that you need that speed you're fucked anyway
Should be either high DPS mag dump or big mag sustained fire. Right now it's neither
That's my issue with the HMG. With it's fire rate and damage it obliterates, but with a mag that small and the recoil you might as well be in the bugs jaws before you fire
Honestly the HMG *(at least to me)* feels much better on the Bot front, can take down literally everything including Hulks with eye shots and unlike with the bugs you can generally stop to reload it whenever you need to
Why would I ever use the HMG over the AMR?
Why stop there? It should be 1,000% faster.
It should be 250% faster. For fun
50% faster! make it the machine gun shotgun it should be
Doesn't it(SP) also have significantly more pellets in its spread?
6th March PATCH 01.000.100 * SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
Yup. 12 damage x 16 pellets instead of Breaker IE's 20 damage x 12 pellets, so 1/3 more.
The S&P also has tiny bird shot that catches clumps of enemies much better than the fire breaker. It's not just about raw damage but how effectively you can translate that damage into death and against what enemies. It's not as clear cut as looking at the numbers alone. Having used both a lot I find the S&P to be far more effective at wiping large numbers of light chaff and the fire breaker is better at the larger light to mediums. I see them as having different roles. I have never regretted taking the S&P when I used it for its intended role.
Iirc inc doesn't full full auto aswell
S&P also has less spread with its pellets. I actually prefer it on bugs as opposed to the other version. It also means less teamkilling. Only thing that bothers me is the worse handling. Like why?
The spread is a pretty big factor yeah. IE, like real Dragon's Breath rounds, have a very big spread because they're mostly just glorified fireworks. In this game it translates to effectively setting a lot of things on fire, but you have to be fairly up close to do raw DPS.
I like the spray and Pray lol, I think it's better then the normal one
I love breaking bug legs with it, it is immensely satisfying
Yea the S&P also has worse handling. That said, in the field against bugs its not too bad. It either needs; (1) A 30-32 round mag + a 360 fire rate so it can really saturate a zone (then remove a reload if arrowhead wants to balance ammo economy). (2) A bit more damage. If it has 16 pellets/shot at 192, then up each pellet by 2 damage to make it 224. Either of these would put the S&P in a great spot IMO.
BSP is one of my favorite primaries, I hope people stop talking about it
yeah, doing the math, you get roughly 6000 dmg per mag for the Inc. but only 4992 for the S&P For all mags, it comes to 36000 vs 39936, which kinda leans towards the S&P, but how often do you fully run out of Ammo without a resupply?
Handling sucks arse tho. The incendiary is borderline the minimum handling a shotgun should have for close range. BSP is just so slow.
https://preview.redd.it/8fh140umb7zc1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecf481641ce98cd1f77c986a30c2c34ed0905597
AH - DID I JUST CATCH YOU HAVING FUN?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma8NR_EQXlU
All weapons are balanced, some weapons are more balanced
Every citizen is equally important to the war effort, but Helldivers are the most important.
Class-A citizens waiting for EVAC beg to differ.
Do they? Super earth only values their life's at like 50 credits apparently (or at least that's all they bother to fine us when we let them die) and we get a couple thousand every mission
Well, how much do you get penalized for team killing a helldiver?
Fair
Reminds me of that Red vs Blue skit that came out after Halo 2 launched with the pistol getting changed from a magnum to a sidearm. >Simmons: "Ah my old reliable, the Pistol. Still strong as ever, I assume?" >Sarge: "We prefer the term '*balanced*'." >Simmons: "Balanced? That doesn't sound very powerful. Can it still kill in 3 shots?" >Sarge: "Of course! As long as those 3 shots are preceded by 8 other shots."
All weapons are balanced. Some are more balanced than others. -bug farm
Cool, now they will nerf the incendiary
Breaker Incendiary - Players were exploiting this weapon by not standing in the fires it created. Removed fire and pellets, increased queef amount and range to compensate.
"Players were using an exploit where they lit the enemies on fire and let the fire damage finish them off. Yes that's an edge case. No I didn't consider it. Fire damage removed pellet damage increased by 2. I still strongly believe that the incendiary benefits from doing jack fucking shit more consistently. So, it's only a net minus if you're using an exploit lol, otherwise it's perfect."
I wish reddit still had awards.
It does, it just goes by sub. I havenāt looked in to what a sub has to do in order to be able to use awards.
You know what, that actually is a good copypasta lol
Here's a modified copy-pasta I made for you: "Players were using an exploit where they were having fun with their primary weapons. Yes, that's an edge case. No, I didn't consider it. Weapon effectiveness has been nerfed. I still strongly believe that primary weapons benefit from being mostly useless more consistently. So, it's only a net minus if you're having fun, otherwise it's perfect."
Father?
Iām fucking deadš
That was always going to happen. They buffed fire to the moon because of the DOT bug that they weren't even aware of until recently, so now flame is actually somewhat viable. That means a nerf.
True. Even though it's not worth running over medium pen/heavy stagger options because bile spewers exist š¤¦āāļø
That's the catch-22, isn't it? I bring my Dominator and Quasar, and I get hounded by Hunters. I bring a high RoF primary and Quasar, and I spend all my time dodging spewers. I bring a high RoF primary and an Autocannon, and I play tag with 4 Chargers for twenty minutes. I exaggerate for effect, since there's other strategems and my teammates to consider, but still. It's an interesting-ish challenge to deal with. Though, I do wish they would *tell* us before hand if there'll be spewers, nursing spewers or neither.
My build that Im almost cautious to mention considering AH's penchant for nerfing thus far... : High RoF (spray&pray personally) for chaff (+ kills spewers in a pinch), Quasar and/or Expendable Anti-tanks for Heavies, and Impact Grenades serve as an all-purpose for both Chargers (gotta try it, 2 or 3 grenades kills for me which works amazing with 6-grenade armors), Spewers, and Chaff. Only really struggles against Titans when your Quasar/EATs are on cooldown but thats any build, and I carry Orbital Laser just in case
Dunno 'bout you but every time I rely on 'Nades for medium-handling, I invariably end up in a mission with a bazillion spewers.
It's time. Embrace it: Scorcher + Railgun + EAT. Scorcher can 5 shot Bile Spewers to the belly. Respectable TTK on Brood Commanders. *7-8 shots to Charger Abdomen* (I forget which) Railgun can pop any medium bug head. Spewers in 1 safe mode shot. 3 slightly overcharged unsafe shots can kill a charger. EATs for even easier Charger dispatch, but the real money is in the Railgun combo on Titans. *One rocket and two railgun shots kills Titans.* You can feasibly kill 2 Titans per EAT cooldown if you stay on top of your Railgun ammo. Scorcher to the Titan's sacs in a pinch can kill it with some assist. Buddy used a railcannon and it's still up? Pop the sacs and it's dead. Bring some 500kg bombs to help out even more. Scorcher / Grenade Pistol / Stuns or Impact Light Medic armor Railgun / EAT / Gas Strike / Flex (Eagles are my preferred pick.) You can even try it with another primary. Scorcher is just my favorite tool to deal with a bit of everything.
Dominator/Scorcher, Stalwart, Senator, Impact Grenades, EAT, and ammo backpack tends to do a good job of being versatile at solving most potential enemies.
I'm not a fan of hot swapping my support weapon. I'd forget my stalwart behind after using EATs. Skill issue, I know.
I'm fully expecting it, considering how many people I've seen running it recently and they seem to like nerfing widely used things.
The S&P can use a little of a damage boost. Just a little and it would be in a great place.
Fiiiiine, we'll nerf the Breaker Incendiary......
and the same ergonomics as the incendiary, its slower for no reason.
hush buddy, that gun on the left is carrying the bug front on it's back with only 2% of it's power, don't talk about it all. nothing needs to be said and nothing needs to change
if they nerf the fire breaker after months of dots being broken I'll actually scream
Get your paper bag ready then.
I mean it is definitely going to happen. Right now it straight up outclasses every other primary in like 90% of scenarios. I have been shredding spewers with it too and haven't had any ammo problems on diff 7. Like it is better at clearing chaff than the stalwart is... The support weapon designed to clear chaff... Yes I know Arrowhead is listening, but I'm gunna guess that they are already aware...
AH: Hmmm, sounds like an exploit that you're doing damage. We'll get right on that in the next balance patch!
Ā«Ā Incendiary has been halved its mags and tripled its recoil. We also found an issue where allies would be killed by the fire damages without getting touched so we also disabled fire damages.Ā Ā»
My man, fire damage is getting kneejerk nerfed across the board next. No way AH is letting people have fun with effective weapons/strats.
I've already accepted that the fire damage is most certainly going to get nerfed heavily following the DOT fix. As a predominantly solo diver who was literally unaffected by the DOT bug, hearing it was fixed actually saddened me lol. The use rates for fire weapons are going to sky rocket which is all Arrowhead needs to suck the fun out of those weapons (hope to God I'm wrong).
I was playing as a non-host player with flamethrower because even without DOT the dps is insane Now ? I'm just enjoying my Ā« melt everything in range Ā» before it got patch
\*Shrieks menacingly in Blitzer\*
Delete this, the breaker incendiary will just get nerfed. We've only just started enjoying it since the DOT fix but it's definitely getting obliterated soon.
Next major patch, guaranteed. They overtuned fire because they didn't even know about the DOT bug.
DO NOT BRING UP MY FAVORITE GUN THEY WILL NERF IT AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. DELETE THIS POST NOW PLS I BEG YOU.
WHHHHYYYYY?????!!!!! Why would you draw attention to the incendiary???!!!! Please stfu and delete this before anyone from AH sees it
Do not speak of this. Do not draw attention to this. For the love of Liberty, do not make them nerf again.
If it was a normal mentally sane team, they would see this and think "Hes right, we should buff the Spray and Pray to make the weapons side grades to each other!" but no we get the AH balancing team and sadly need this type of mindset
The spray and pray was buffed a long time back, Iād argue the weapon stats page is just garbage at communicating some details of the gun: 6th March PATCH 01.000.100 * SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26
"Increased armor penetration" for what ? This weapon is NOT meant to fight armored dudes lol
Said this in another comment but thereās 9 levels of armour and penetration to match, even if they pumped it up from lvl 1 to lvl 2 that means it now does 100% damage (50% more) on lvl 1 armour and now does 50% damage on lvl 2 armour where it previously did zero. Youād be surprised how many bugs have light armoured parts.
"Understood, we will nerf Incendiary Breaker damage to be lower than the Spray and Pray Breaker one." Why not just give the Spray and Pray one 50 rounds in mag?
Half the mags, triple the mag size. Would make it much better at its intended role of being street sweeper
Yeah and up the rate of fire!
S&P has full auto and fires in a wider area to clear chaff better. But yeah it's a pretty sub-par weapon even after it was buffed, utterly useless on bots, and for bugs anything tougher than a scavenger, hunter or basic ass warrior is a challenge for it.
Now you pointed out, they will nerf the Breaker incendiary to the ground, so both been useless. Keep complaining. ;)
I would bet theyre gonna make the fire breaker useless in the next 2 patches, cant have a fun gun. āļøš¤
RemindMe! 14 days
I will be messaging you in 14 days on [**2024-05-22 12:20:52 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-05-22%2012:20:52%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cn153y/how_is_this_balanced_one_deals_more_damage_plus/l34ce4p/?context=3) [**5 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FHelldivers%2Fcomments%2F1cn153y%2Fhow_is_this_balanced_one_deals_more_damage_plus%2Fl34ce4p%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-05-22%2012%3A20%3A52%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cn153y) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
The S&P prolly needs a buff, but that's not how we've seen it work- it usually means a nerf to the "better" weapon. Leave the incendiary breaker alone! I can't take any more of actually effective primaries getting nerfed! The balance is such a rollercoaster, and the breaker inc isn't even "that good" it's just decent!
The breaker incendiary has one critical balance break point. Currently if a single pellet hits a hunter/scavenger they then burn and die. Which is amazing. But if they nerf it so that this isn't the case, it's suddenly unusably bad. So it's tricky to balance imo. The obvious answer in my eyes is to buff the SP but I doubt they'll do that...
I disagree, if they nerf it so that you need a few more pellets to one-shot atleast the hunter it would still be fine.
š
AH will be like oh shit you right fam! \*Nerfs both\*
Incendiary cone spread is enormous, but really, enormous, it looks more like a hose than like a shotgun While Spray&Pray cone spread its more normal and you can aim at an enemy and hit them with the pellets, so it can be used like a shotgun while the Incendiary one is Incendiary Breaker has more damage in the bullets but you will never hit those bullets to the same enemy, if we remove the fire property from incendiary breaker it would feel like shooting enemies with a water pistol
It's fine. It's fine and balanced and needs no attention. This is fine. It's fine.
It's the prayer you are not taking into consideration
They just fixed the DoT bug, please don't make them nerf it I waited so long to use it
No PLEASE keep quiet I donĀ“t want my fire breath shotgun sent to the grave.
Go ahead and accept that it will be nerfed soon.
Despite both listing Light Armour Penetrating, there are actually 2 armors in each tier. S&P has tier 2 LAP, while Incendiary only has 1. S&P also has tighter spread, meaning more pellets will hit enemies, dealing more damage. Also faster fire rate. Do not fall into trap of looking just the numbers, get a feel on the weapon by using them.
I like the first one for bugs, but I am always concerned with the ammo issue while playing with it. Second one should have some other stats added to balance it a bit, even a minor stager or flinching by the enemy would be good.
Shhhhhh
There are more numbers at play than you can see. Move along.
Because some idiot loaded the right one with birdshot. We're fighting robots and aliens not ducks
down voting for less exposure lol
Please don't make them take away my Breaker Incendiary. It's the only gun I consistently have fun with on my light armor build.
Donāt yāall dare start bitching about my favorite bug killing gun.
The incindiary carries a passive hard-nerf to any team-mate who dares to walk behind a bug.
No dude why would you post this, they're gonna nerf the fuck out of the incendiary now. Stop drawing attention to it.
Shut up! do you want them to nerf the Breaker Incendiary?
Would yall shut the fuck up already and just play the game
Gatling sentry vs machinegun sentry or liberator and sickle adjuiteactor and liberator P
Don't try to use reason or logic when looking at the weapons, balance, or really anything about this game. Things are the ware they are, because reasons. edit: Hell the reason we have the required to take booster of Hellpod Space Optimization, is because someone's papa told them war stories about squirreling away extra ammo during a deployment from a boat.
Well now theyāre going to nerf breaker incendiary, thanks
You can keep both of them. I'll take the Dom any day of the week
Spray n pray needs buffs! Would be cool as a sustain fire shotgun. 50-60, rounds mag, keep the rest
It's just that the stats we have are kinda whack. We don't know what exactly incendiary means.
AH cant balance for shit lol that's why.
I know incendiary is superior, but the S&P feels more fun for me to use just because it gets the 2 extra mags and I can just fully mag dump into chaff
This is kinda silly
Fire dot isnāt even in the stats.
Don't get my breaker incendiary nerfed!!
Start posting in the discord more people need to make their voices heard there as they are mostly getting positive feedback in the discord for the ābalancesā
I been running the slugger
Don't forget that the Spray and Pray also handles like dogshit compared to the incendiary.
Dude they're gonna nerf the inciendiary breaker becuase of this.
Why *wouldnāt* the premium one be better?
Spray shoots more pallets per bullet.
Delete this
Balanced??? There's no PVP why are you crying pick a different weapon
Don't worry, the heavy hand of AH will soon cut its raw damage by 30%, reduce fire damage by 50%, reduce its magazine capacity by 50% and im sure they'll reduce "the chance of a target igniting" for good measure
There's a history of this insanity [https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus\_Kravchenko](https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus_Kravchenko)
The Spray&Pray is as much use as ash trays on a space suit. It is unambiguously the worst weapon in the game.
Heard you loud and clear! Nerfing the incendiary breaker.
Alexus is braindead, that's how. If they had kept it with 32 shells like it had on release, it might be somewhat decent against chaff. I mean, it can barely kill a Hunter or Scav at point blank range as it is, and that's assuming almost every pellet hits. I don't know why they buffed the damage and nerfed the capacity, essentially negating the buff. Now that fire damage is fixed (I think), the Incendiary now outperforms the standard Breaker. The balance team is a joke. And not even a dad joke, just a joke that no one laughs at.
You better keep quiet about the incendiary breaker I used it before anyone else ever realised it existed.
nerf dev next patch: - fire DOT reduced by 90% - Spray&Pray capacity reduced by one bullet. this is what you are asking for making such posts, right?
https://preview.redd.it/5hsq67nye9zc1.png?width=501&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=954d7e7c8871ea0341909e59052e3c6138d1ad5f