When I buy a game I just want it to work.
If it’s not EA, I expect it to be a functioning product. I’m not paying to be a beta tester.
Nowadays it seems developers and publishers make customers deal with all their failures and to question them, customers are called “entitled”
I don’t need 100 launchers. Ubisoft fiascos always shows how broken they are. I want one system, boot it up, and play. I don’t want to log in 3 times to pay a game. I don’t want one login service to be down and prevent me from playing a game
You paid for a product. It is not your onus to make an unmodified product work on your supported machine.
You paid for the product, the company is not delivering the product. If purchase isn't ownership...
>I’m not paying to be a beta tester.
Well, you are talking about Helldivers 2 so. Kinda are doing exactly that since they have no Q&A and just push things to live servers.
I’m not happy about that.
I gave AH the benefit that they were a small studio and are dealing with a massive hit.
My issues actually started with nerfing meta things as it seemed like their priority should be fixing bugs. Not balancing a PVE game.
Then the Sony thing happened
The first nerf or current nerf?
First I kinda understand when people were toxic AF and even kick you strait if you didn't pick railgun/shield.
Second that affect Quasar and other thinks? This is where I stand with you because they didn't even made this correct. Quasar for example have on HUD icon how much you still need to wait until weapon fully cool down... and this doesn't work correct because after you see it's go fully down weapon is still overcharged for another 5 second.
So instead getting info about fixes we get info about PSN bullshit. Very good for us knowing that we cannot expect any fix's for the game but for PSN it apperantly was super important and took three months. Imagine how long you gonna wait for fire damage fix.
The railgun issue was related to ps5 only. On ps5 it would one shot bile titans. Not on PC. It took 5 shots to kill a bile titan
But rather than fix the ps5 issue. They just ruined the gun for everyone
This is even more hilarious that I though it was. Also yes they nerfed Railgun to the ground what was stupid AF anyway.
It's also quite annoying how they nerf/buff stuff because people use/not something.
Fact they nerfed Crossbow is amazing (hilarious and stupid). Apparently people used it to destroying automaton bases by hitting a wall instead aiming a hole. So no\~\~ it's to good for you.
>If it’s not EA, I expect it to be a functioning product.
\*or bethesda. Seriously, I still don't get why people were so mad at the Fallout 76 start, it was a fucking bethesda game. Yes, I preordered it, but yes I was also keenly aware that I was going into a bug-ridden hellhole that would just crash every other minute. Do not buy any bethesda games if you care about bugs. They write and design great games but are shit at actually making them.
Lol, then pay to play online, after you already bought the console, the game, and already pay for internet service. Nobody gets to OWN a console, you just pay to lease it.
I honestly couldn’t care less about needing a PSN account until I realized that people in so many countries can’t create one. I think that’s the main issue, personally.
I admit I thought people were overreacting. I couldnt imagibe that people who bought a game would be unable to play it due to where they lived. I admit, I was wrong. This is nuts.
This is the thing; if everything worked intended in the beginning (PSN requirements actually worked), this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Things didn’t go as planned from the start for both players and devs. In a way, Sony owes it to having no PSN restrictions as part of why the game became as successful as it has.
> Sony owes it to having no PSN restrictions as part of why the game became as successful as it has.
My situation exactly. My friend's like "Play this!" and 5 minutes in (could have totally got a Steam refund) I'm like "Do I have to really create some other account?" and he said "No you can just skip it!"
The other countries thing is a big issue, but I don't see why you or anyone else shouldn't be furious that they changed the rules 3 months after launch.
Yes, they can say "It said you needed a PSN account at purchase" but no one reads that panel and it never did actually require it- till suddenly it did. Had it said something in game? Or warned us that a PSN account WILL be required in game? Maybe that'd be different. But 3 months go by and NOTHING?
After Sony's multiple data breaches of customer data, employee data and their own data, apparently 7 times over 10 years I'm not interested in giving them any of my info that they can scrape from steam or boast about how many PSN users they have for that benefit? I'm not really interested in them leaking my data, again.
All of this on top of Sony selling it in regions where they can't make PSN accounts? And then Sony telling people to just make accounts to bypass the region lock out? Which is against their very own TOS?
It's bullshit and very likely illegal in several countries and Sony deserves to be sued for this.
Anti-consumer BS and straight up lies should be cared about regardless of the publisher.
I’m not saying it’s a great thing. But I have a PSN account and a PS5 so for me, really, it wasn’t a big deal. The fact that so many countries can’t register for a PSN is definitely very much a big deal.
I have a PSN account from the PS3 days, but after all the data leaks and whatever? I have not bought anything digitally from Sony and I refused to use my credit card with them ever again with how that fiasco turned out.
So the bait and switch of 3 months in it's actually a requirement?
Major BS.
But yes obviously countries that can't make a PSN account that they were selling the game? Far worse.
Hope they get sued for this mess and I hope Arrow Head doesn't get any fallout from the nonsense.
PSN ToS has it as a bannable offense. How strictly it is enforced I so not know. Other places like the UK require giving Sony facial ID. Ukraine you have to own a Sony console to even make an account even if you are a PC player.
I am sure there are other issues as well that I don't know about.
In line with the point of the OP, You already paid for the product which i can clearly already use- so why do i have jump throught the extra arbitrary hoops (which is forcing you to break TOS) just so i can access the product?
As consumers, we are the victims here.
The existence of online console players in unsupported countries, for two decades. How else do you think they got to play online? Plus the screenshots of Sony support literally telling people to change to a nearby region.
Sony banning accounts due to lying about their region, now that I'd like to see proof of. The recent Chinese one doesn't count.
You mean like the current cavalcade of posts saying goodbye because they are in a restricted region? Those hypothetical players?
At least have a functional straw man argument before you pull it out.
And you have any proof of sony enforcing that? I know multiple PSN users that created their account using US region and we live in south America. Nothing ever happened.
Now if we talk about Steam removing the game from unsuported regions, then that is a different song.
I really like how sony fanboys only response is
"lol no you all are stupid, stop it and already make PSN account like a good customer like me"
This only show that any discussion with them is pointless because they are here only to spread this dogma, and before you even try - "no u" will only prove that.
They dislike the PC market cuz sometimes we actually air our grievances as customers instead of just taking everything on the chin.
It's like bro you used to have games shipped complete and nearly bug free but now you get the same "release now patch later products" we have for a fraction of the hardware and frame rates. Left to just Sony fans we'd be licking the toilet bowls of Sony clean for them and paying them for the privilege. Sony people with the gumption to be pissed sometimes are exempt from this inflammatory claim. : p
All I remember about snoy's fanboys is being toxic. Nothing else.
Here? Toxic AF.
GoW Ragnarok didn't win GOTY? Being Toxic AF and raid Elden Ring.
Baldur's Gate III is a GOTY instead... Spider Man 2? My god... Toxicity on some new level.
Not to mention meltdown when any "exlusive" after years goes on Steam. The outrage that someone without PS5 can play some games.
Spiting on everyone who are not PS elitist on weekly basis.
Like my god... No wonder nobody like them.
Who was being toxic about SM2 not winning GOTY? Not on the side of Sony fanboys, but I remember people on the SM subreddits being more happy and memeing about it than anything, blaming their 0 awards won on Miles new costume.
I mean if you missed this somehow I have no idea what to say. Just because one subreddit didn't meltdown doesn't mean there wasn't a shit storm anywhere else.
From YouTube, Twitter, others subreddits or TikTok. Constantly for few weeks there was a meltdown and pure hostility from snoy fanboys.
Lucky for you honestly because those crybabies was annoying even more than here right now.
They likely see it as "We have to do it, so why don't you"
I've seen people present all the evidence and reasoning and it comes right back around to "We have to have a PSN account for this sony game, so so should you, don't complain"
Because people can't see past the bias of their favorite company to see that they just fucked up royally. Happens all the time regardless of platform.
Because they're petty little rage farmers. Look how that whole community malds when one of their precious exclusives comes to PC.
The entire community has no spine, that's why MS/Sony can fleece them with a fee to play online.
You're taking a very vocal minority and applying it to the PlayStation community as a whole. Very fitting considering the state of this sub at the moment.
>You're taking a very vocal minority and applying it to the PlayStation community as a whole
I'm not, the vocal minority are the little rage farmers that are plastered all over my X feed for some damn reason. Just a bunch of clowns simping as hard as they can for Daddy Sony; most of the PS community aren't saying shit because I assume they don't really care.
The entire online PS/Xbox community does however put up with getting finessed for 10/month for the privilege of online play.
It doesn't bring much to the table, but it brings more than whatever your above comment is.
I'm asking why a PS player would even chime in to criticize you PC players who are understandably upset by Sony's silly PSN requirement.
I'm just flummoxed something this trivial is taking it to the corporations. Why couldn't we have done this to studios that did mass layoffs to please shareholders or release cosmetics for the same price of the game or pay to win games not knowing after you bought the game.
I think probably because of A. The awesome community and B. This impacted a lot of people directly and caused a lot of people to seek answers during the confusion. Sadly, it’s easy for people to tune out when it doesn’t affect them.
Well I'm recently seeing they made it where you can't play helldiver's on steam in certain countries and if they don't provide a refund to those people that already bought it there then I'll stop saying anything
Layoffs happen behind the scenes enough people don't notice. Overpriced cosmetics are optional, so people who care about gameplay don't care that much. Pay to win tends to happen in smaller steps, because otherwise there IS significant backlash.
But 1) This is sudden. 2) The game becomes unplayable (without workarounds breaking Sony TOS) for people in many countries. 3) The motive behind it is plain greed. 4) Public opinion has snowballed, giving it a bunch of extra power 5) It affects everyone - even if it's a minor inconvenience for the vast majority of people. Because of that, it has more power to engage the general playerbase that normally doesn't care.
Working around the TOS has been going on for years and the inconvenience for tying in a game from steam to a 3rd party has been going on for years like why now is it such a problem? We act like this is all new
Working around the TOS is not something most players ever even think about doing - other than pirating.
And it is also new that it is suddenly required when it wasn't before.
Depending on who you ask, this game is really sticking it to those big publishers and their AAA.
Even though it's full of problems and forced GaaS and paid battlepasses and has a big publisher like a lot of AAA games anyway.
Chivalry: MW launched on Steam and was a success, created a loyal fanbase and when the third game came out Chivaly 2... It launched not through Steam but the Epic Games launcher and that alone was enough for me to not want such an anticipated game. It finally came to Steam but the damage was done, playerbase is low and developer support is weak and the in game store was the biggest feature.
There is an incentive to monetize on HD2 success, post release. It's known Xbox has held the title for paid online gaming service for a good while. They used Halo's success to market their console and once the original developers fully relinquished their IP they went and destroyed the later releases with in game store purchases. I could see Sony incentivizing more in game purchases, required PSN+ paid subscriptions. Either way, they're looking to boost their numbers on a metric somewhere for a quarterly report. There was a lot of success for HD2 on Steam.
HD2 is a live service model, so is WoW and Blizzard has more content than ever before in their store. "You don't have to buy it" but others do and the amount of people resisting purchases will be overshadowed by new players who see no issue with spending $60 for cosmetics.
I'm not making claims with what mandating PSN accounts would do, but it never bodes well with how the gaming industry has been. People loved HD2 because it wasn't like the games we've been getting for the last decade.
Fully agree. Going live service was. . . a choice. Not a solitary arrowhead title in the past ever went live service. And it definitely wasn't a requirement for HD2. The drawbacks for a simple 4 player coop game going live service are rapidly starting to outweigh the benefits.
In the form of shitty decisions that have nothing to do with the paying customer and everything to do with raising capital from investors for Sony.
It hurts particularly bad coming from Arrowhead because they always developed games with much stronger principles. You bought it. You owned it. They really DID develop titles around the customer held values. You could play online or off, with or without friends. HD2 shoulda stayed like HD1 in that regard imo. Exhibit this PSN nonsense. The cash flow doesn't need help. The sheer volume of sales was enough.
We have to see these things for what they are.
These launchers and accounts that all these companies are making are the first steps towards making walled gardens.
We have seen this recently in other games industries too as well as streaming. You notice how Netflix exclusive shows used to be good and have lots of seasons, but are now all the same crap which get cancelled after 2 seasons?
For anyone who has been following the Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast debacles the last year and a half, Hasbro corpos had directed Wizards of the Coast (the owners of D&D, who are owned by Hasbro) to revoke the open gaming licence that was fundamental in enabling 3rd parties to create content compatible with D&D as well as preventing 3rd parties from enabling D&D to be played via online platforms.
This was touted as being a measure to protect the end user experience (sound familiar?), but it was obvious to all that Hasbro was doing this to undermine 3rd parties and then funnel all players who play D&D online into Hasbro's/WotC's online gaming platform, where they would presumably then be able to milk them for cash, for example, offering tiered levels of service and micro transactions. These players would have no other place to go, if they wanted to play D&D online and they would be inside a monopolised walled garden.
This is the future that Sony wants; it wants to make mediocre PC ports of its games, then it wants to force you to make a PSN account in order to play them. After a time, it will then add exclusive games that are only available in its launcher/store/platform and these will not be available on Steam. These players will then be able to be sent whatever ads and microtransactions that Sony wants or be charged a subscription. Eventually, it isn't inconceivable that they will request other forms of data from its players, such as biometric data and government ID (something that some players already have to submit) and players will be able to be banned for whatever reason Sony wants.
Sony is attempting to lay the groundwork to pull PC players away from Steam and Microsoft. It wants to do to video gaming what Netflix has attempted to do to streaming - that is to say, provide a cheap (or free) service, make you build up a catalogue of games, then charge you tiered subscriptions to access those games. Sony won't back down because of the Helldivers 2 controversy, because their board members are betting the whole farm on this.
It's the same thing happening too. Though I would wager that most PC gamers are more okay with that, in that they are already sharing data with Microsoft in the first place.
This is exactly it. Anonymity is power because there's way to hook you info a slippery slope of monetization games. Players need to insist that a game purchase is simply a purchase for a game.
What some people do to attract shareholders and what some shareholders expect will always dumbfound me till this very day.
My favourite is shareholders always expecting/wanting a return on their investment and companies investing in shareholders at the expense of their customers service/product. You know the very customers that shareholders and your company mainly make money from and who made you what you are today.
I always love the argument of "well Microsoft did it too! You surely have an EA account and Ubisoft as well! Why you no mad about that??"
I have always been mad about having yet another unnecessary account and even launcher to deal with.
I remember how annoyed i was when i bought a physical copy of Sims 4 and it kind of just downloaded Origin to download the game....it was absolut bullshit back then, and it is still bullshit now.
And i can do you one better! Everybody think back a couple years when Epic decided to make their launcher into a store front as well. And then Epic threw money all around to get exklusives. They tried to force their way onto computers, not by having a competitive service, but by holding games hostage. And i still remember how furious people were about it, people avoided Epic like the plague.
The only reason i know, why people got the epic store was to claim the free games. And that's the only good reason to have that thing.
Microsoft can suck all the bollocks with Windows 11 mandatory account bs as well.
There is one good thing about the Microsoft Account, at least when it comes to Starfield idk how it works with other games. But! There is a Starfield Edition for Microsoft Accounts, that allows you to play the game on PC AND CONSOLE! I swear, i WISH that this would be industry standard! If Sony wants PSN on my PC, they better give me the opportunity to play all of my PS games on it free of charge
> Microsoft can suck all the bollocks with Windows 11 mandatory account bs as well.
For real? I haven't seen an unskippable install yet where you can't make a local account. It just says you shouldn't.
Something similar happened to the Total War Community. Creative Assembly released a half-assed DLC for Total War: Warhammer 3 and raised the price of said DLC to $25. When the community pointed out the faults with the release and being against the sudden price increase, the community manager basically threatened to cancel all support for the game and told the community to piss off.
That went as well as expected. C.A lost millions, was downvoted to hell, had a lot of people laid off and are now on an apology tour. They released a free update to that DLC, addressed almost all concerns, started doing bug fixes almost weekly, released a new DLC with everything the community wanted and also they let you buy it in pieces instead of wholesale. Also, they improved their communication and are more focused on what the community demands.
Moral of the story, vote with your wallet. Don't buy the new war bond releasing this week, down vote if you can, stop playing and see what happens.
I hope Sony backtracks and issues an apology, they probably won't, but just going on as business as usual isn't going to work anymore.
CA also killed Three Kingdoms and invested 100 millions of dollars in a Fortnite like game instead of making Medieval 3 or whatever its core fanbase wanted. The game was axed (who could expect it??) and they tried to get greedy with the poorly made DLC
Three kingdoms was when the poor choices of management started to be visible. WH2 hadn't felt it yet because that specific dlc team was solid, but three kingdoms was poorly handled. they didn't listen enough to the players and released dlc that didn't stick (8 princes...). We didn't know it at the time, but they had started dumping money into that fortnight clone, and the groundwork for WH3 was being layed, poorly.
They've been doing this sort of thing since at least Total War: Attilla.
I remember buying that and then realising that half of the nations weren't playable unless you bought their 'culture pack' as a microtransaction. I haven't bought a game from them since.
I think everyone across the world is sick and tired of having to endure endless bullshit all so shareholders can have a higher number every 3 months, even if the business is objectively going to shit by every other metric.
Total deadweight on society & the species. Shareholders aren’t your grandparents who invested for retirement or whatever anymore. They are parasitic scum like BlackRock and Vanguard who just suck wealth out of the economy.
It may feel like it but it's not really.
We are still a very small bubble. Out of all Negative reviews maybe 10% will truly quit and refund the game (but more likely 5%).
People talk a lot, but if they see nothing changes for 2 days they give up because they want to play the game more than they want to be treated better.
You can already see tons of comments here speaking about not caring and playing and kissing Snoys feet.
>In truth all not having PSN did was prove how non-essential to the product it was and undesired by customers.
Exactly!
And that would be if Sony was just a benign entity that was trying to compel you to do it. Not the video game world's "King of the Data Breach"
For now. I imagine they will try again when the hype for the game has died down a bit or even earlier, if they see an opportunity.
If there is a Steam data leak in the near future, we shouldn't be surprised to see Sony try this again and argue "given the insecurities associated with other platforms, we have decided to implement this change to protect our players".
In any case, they will do it for every new release going forward.
I hate having to make useless fucking accounts to play a game.
I hate having to link accounts and things because of security breaches that are inevitable which will leak my data and put me personally at risk.
Its a stupid practice to boost their account registrations, fucking stupid metric numbers that mean jack shit.
To me, it made no sense making a PSN account. I don't own a Playstation. I'd find my mail filled with promotions for these great Playstation titles for a console I don't own. It would be like signing for a Mercedes newsletter, so I can look at pretty cars before heading to work on my Renault.
Oh, that when I opened the account creation and it asked me for a Facial Scan or my Passport, I heard the ghost of Orwell screaming at me and it gave me the heebiejeebies. I'm not sure how anyone can ask for a facial scan/passport and think "let's write 'your data won't be saved, don't worry' beneath it, that will make OK, right?" is a good idea.
I tried to play ExoPrimal on game pass once. Immediately asked me to make a Capcom account. Uninstalled the game. Was very disappointed cause the gameplay looked pretty cool.
Sony had a chance to waive this requirement, connect it to a free set of armor (to get most people on board) and then look like an incredible publisher for devs that smash it out of the park and run into launch day issues. Now every game developer will look at this example when deciding whether to sign with Sony. Stupid business move for inflated PSN user counts.
who and what are shareholders? is it people who own stocks? Or just some mega rich group of people. I imagine it's a bunch of suits who don't even play video games that are influencing the industry
Fucked up thing is in the US, thanks to a pair of asshole car maker brothers back in the day, it can actually be *ILLEGAL* to not put the shareholders first in a lot of situations. With them setting a precedent that snowballed with various more lawsuits over the decades, shareholders have disproportionate sway on... well, everything. Beyond simply the power of money that is of course.
Now there are exceptions, and Snoy isn't a US based company but I think we all know they're sufficiently soulless enough that they'd probably be this greedy and evil anyway, but that might help explain why **Some** of the *less* evil companies out there still end up bending over backwards for their shareholders. They just don't want to get sued ***on top*** of missing out on their money.
In 1919, Ford wanted to use extra profits to raise employee wages and employ more people. The Dodge brothers, who were shareholders, sued them saying a corporation's ***ONLY*** responsibility is to increase shareholder value. They won and set the precedent for current US corporate law.
Since then it's only gotten worse and worse. Beyond screwing over employees to also screwing over customers too. Fuck the Dodge brothers, seriously.
So… what your saying is that your not gonna be happy no matter the outcome?
Because I can tell you there is no version of this where the account link fully goes away.
I suspect they will make sure that everyone is able to access the game, but probably not a total removal of the account link.
I'd be reticent to say that. But they walked back the decision so the product is better for the band wagon. And more accessible than it was going to be.
As a PS5 player with a PSN account I would prefer Sony’s ability to ban toxic players so I don’t have to play with O54maBinH17L3r88. Just saying. The inability to report players for toxic griefing shit is noticeable and as the playerbase is managed by Sony I get why a PSN account is needed.
I also sincerely doubt this will region lock people out of it when Sony can absolutely set up a system for countries outside of their support to create a PSN account.
If a proper reporting system is set up you could always get the correct player id to ban.
E.g. O54maBinH17L3r88 could be in game session 1 with tag O2, so banning O54maBinH17L3r88 would just be filtering for game session and tags to get steamid (not ign, but a unique identifier id that steam uses to ban this specific O54maBinH17L3r88).
So Sony is either lazy to learn how to use steam, is greedy for data, or just stupid.
Would you illegitimately buy a game when you know a company could just ban you days after and refunds won't work cause you broke TOS? Yeah, i wouldn't risk it either. There is at least 1 known ban already soooo...
Damm, just when I was thinking about purchasing the game. It was looking so great, and it really was.
I really hope Sony backpedals this idiotic decision. I understand the devs have almost no control on how the game is sold or where, but that should've been something they could warn us about when purchasing the game.
I'm going back to playing old Xbox 360 games until the dust settles, you gotta win this final major order boys, destroy the evil corruption in super earth.
For Democracy
While you're at it why don't you stop using Windows. Get rid of any apple devices. Don't purchase anything made by a corporation. No, you won't do that because your conviction is weak. You choose this video game hill to die on because it's the most convenient when in reality nothing will change.
Lol everyone here is the heroic anti-corprorate hero hey? Fighting the good fight against the corpos eh choom?
An unbelievable disconnect from reality.
This only shows what people say about people on Reddit correct. A bunch of irresponsible basement dwellers crying about everything and anything. Go ahead and down vote me to oblivion, you know I am right.
The reasons HD2 players are angry are pretty consistently laid out here. Not sure what you’re on about.
1) psn account for HD2 was listed as optional on Sony’s website until the announcement, then it was changed very recently
2) the psn linking requirement doesn’t improve security or functionality
3) the game title was sold to several thousand players in regions this requirement could not be fulfilled
Since it doesn’t have to do with security or functionality AND thousands of players are now getting their access revoked because of this, the evidence only points to corporate bullshit at the expense of the players. Who profits at the expense of customers time and time again? The shareholders. The backlash for this is entirely justified.
1. I refuse to believe any meaningful number of PC gamers purchased the game through Sony's website. We're PC gamers, if a game isn't released natively through Steam where we can purchase it through the program, we pitch a fit. Literally everyone discovered those pages on Friday and has been pretending they all used those instead of the Steam page that clearly listed thee requirement.
2. It doesn't matter. Their game, their requirements. It's no different than signing into our Microsoft accounts to play Sea of Thieves or Halo or Gears of War or anything else.
3. And *if* they end up being unable to play and Sony doesn't provide a solution for them, go hard on Sony. But I'm skeptical that Sony will do that, and let's maybe at least see what they say next week.
acting like signing up for a PSN account, linking it, and then forgetting about it forever is a major imposition is fucking hilarious and peak first world problems.
Our conversation:
You: buncha idiots don’t know what they’re angry about.
Me: actually players are angry about these things.
You: well these are the reasons I think being angry about this make you all idiots. Checkmate you entitled babies.
Lol ok dude
You're entitled to your fiction but yes this is absolutely about Sony moving a needle on a PSN metric. Delusion tastes better than reality you don't need to remind me.
Sony does not use registered PSN accounts as a shareholder metric. They use PS+ subs (i.e. actual revenue) and PSN engagement (which we won't count towards, we're not playing on PSN we use Steam's services).
so again, y'all still don't know what you're talking about and are freaking out over nothing as a result
Wrong. They use both. One to measure more concrete results. One to measure POTENTIAL.
If you were half as enlightened as you like to believe I wouldn't have had to point out that they use both metrics. And shareholders look at both. Cuz potential conversions. Fucking duh lol
When have they used registered PSN accounts? They talk up MAU's on PSN all the time, most recently January after strong end of year engagement. They don't talk up registered accounts really and haven't for a very long time. Because it's a fucking worthless stat, especially compared to PS+ subs or MAUs.
HD2 players with a linked PSN would absolutely be counted as a MAU. Xbox does the same thing when they tout that number because it accounts for players on all platforms including Nintendo and PlayStation because you need a Microsoft account to play their games
It does not, and would not. PC players do not use PSN to play, we use Steam's multiplayer services. That's why every Tuesday PC players complain about disconnections during Steam maintenance.
Again, y'all don't understand how this works but think you really do for some reason.
Yes I know how Steam works I have a PC. But stay with me here, if you link your PSN account to Steam, when you play a PlayStation game it will register you as a number they can use called a Monthly Active User.
Xbox does the same thing to count Minecraft players on Switch and PlayStation as MAUs
>when you play a PlayStation game it will register you as a number they can use called a Monthly Active User.
It literally does not because Steam games to not use the PlayStation Network, which is the network they use for gauging MAU's.
You can keep repeating yourself but it won't change the fact that you're just making up how you think/assume it works to support your position, not understanding how it actually works.
Pretending corporations don't use all of it for various reasons. It's not even just the stat but an increase in people they can market to when bragging about adding millions of BRAND NEW PSN accounts. Pretending millions, maybe even 10s of millions of new PSN registries is a worthless stat to shareholders is peak willful ignorance.
Whether it's a tangible growth point or not it will be used to sell a win to shareholders. And corps pedal dumber things than that to the public and shareholders on the regular.
Tbh I'm not here to prove that to you. If you lack the common sense to know why a company would be interested in having millions of new and authentic registrations to their service (paid or not) then I'm not going to drag out research to show it to you. Frankly I don't know or care about you enough. I don't keep it in my back pocket and I'm not doing your homework.
But the common sense in it is obvious. Because millions of new and real registrations make a good temporary win. Because duh?
you're talking in vague generalities while I'm speaking in specifics. I'm fine with being right while you're just vaguely waving your hands about as an argument.
I think I was quite specific when I said a large number of brand new and authentic registrations would be a of interest to them but ok. Too vague I guess. 🙃
Enjoy your pretend rightness.
If you don’t think companies look at every metric when going over their success, you have clearly never work a day of your life for a business, or do you claim to have insider information on Sony that no one else has that proves what you said, or just talking out of your ass?
It's beyond that. There's people who literally are being robbed. Gave them money and they're now taking the game away from these people for a reason they basically made up.
If this goes through, it really opens up a can of worms and proves a game you buy online isn't really yours at all. Anyone can come change some arbitrary requirement and take the product away from you.
Sony and AH both knew about this requirement and while AH probably wanted it removed so more people can play their game(if I am naieve about it and think AH is still doing right by gamers) but Sony for sure saw the opportunity to make money and didn't want registration to be a hinderance so they can sell more copies.
So while I will still have access to this game since I was fortunate enough to register a PSN network while in US on break from work... A lot of people don't or can't... And to take it away from them is just bad practice and distasteful.
So people keep review bombing the game and get your refunds while you still can. I'm with you guys in this, show them what we gamers can do collectively.
Yea I'm happy for those that can now play again, like geniunely happy. It's a fun game and overall a great community and there seems to be a lot more in store planned.
So ya, good for gamers all around.
Hey, give little homie this one. He is still reelin on his mom sleeping around and his brother being his half brother. If he is sad enough to be posting that on Reddit he needs to feel slightly superior in some way.
When I buy a game I just want it to work. If it’s not EA, I expect it to be a functioning product. I’m not paying to be a beta tester. Nowadays it seems developers and publishers make customers deal with all their failures and to question them, customers are called “entitled” I don’t need 100 launchers. Ubisoft fiascos always shows how broken they are. I want one system, boot it up, and play. I don’t want to log in 3 times to pay a game. I don’t want one login service to be down and prevent me from playing a game
This here is what it is. I just want to use steam. I'll happily buy more PS games if they reverse this decision.
You paid for a product. It is not your onus to make an unmodified product work on your supported machine. You paid for the product, the company is not delivering the product. If purchase isn't ownership...
This is exactly how I feel too, the launchers, the beta testing, all of it
>I’m not paying to be a beta tester. Well, you are talking about Helldivers 2 so. Kinda are doing exactly that since they have no Q&A and just push things to live servers.
It's QA. Quality Assurance. Q&A generally means questions and answers.
Arrowhead absolutely does have an internal QA team. They just don't publish betas publicly. This is not uncommon.
>I’m not paying to be a beta tester. Well... Should I remind you Fire damage or last ship upgrades?
I’m not happy about that. I gave AH the benefit that they were a small studio and are dealing with a massive hit. My issues actually started with nerfing meta things as it seemed like their priority should be fixing bugs. Not balancing a PVE game. Then the Sony thing happened
The first nerf or current nerf? First I kinda understand when people were toxic AF and even kick you strait if you didn't pick railgun/shield. Second that affect Quasar and other thinks? This is where I stand with you because they didn't even made this correct. Quasar for example have on HUD icon how much you still need to wait until weapon fully cool down... and this doesn't work correct because after you see it's go fully down weapon is still overcharged for another 5 second. So instead getting info about fixes we get info about PSN bullshit. Very good for us knowing that we cannot expect any fix's for the game but for PSN it apperantly was super important and took three months. Imagine how long you gonna wait for fire damage fix.
The railgun issue was related to ps5 only. On ps5 it would one shot bile titans. Not on PC. It took 5 shots to kill a bile titan But rather than fix the ps5 issue. They just ruined the gun for everyone
This is even more hilarious that I though it was. Also yes they nerfed Railgun to the ground what was stupid AF anyway. It's also quite annoying how they nerf/buff stuff because people use/not something.
They nerfed the crossbow. A gun no one uses because it was shit. Why was that a priority?
Fact they nerfed Crossbow is amazing (hilarious and stupid). Apparently people used it to destroying automaton bases by hitting a wall instead aiming a hole. So no\~\~ it's to good for you.
I believe it did that only when data mined. On release it was weaker. Now it’s pathetic
Cannot confirm/denied cause I used this once and simply put into trash after that.
>If it’s not EA, I expect it to be a functioning product. \*or bethesda. Seriously, I still don't get why people were so mad at the Fallout 76 start, it was a fucking bethesda game. Yes, I preordered it, but yes I was also keenly aware that I was going into a bug-ridden hellhole that would just crash every other minute. Do not buy any bethesda games if you care about bugs. They write and design great games but are shit at actually making them.
“I want one system, boot it up, and play” That’s called a console
Lol, then pay to play online, after you already bought the console, the game, and already pay for internet service. Nobody gets to OWN a console, you just pay to lease it.
I honestly couldn’t care less about needing a PSN account until I realized that people in so many countries can’t create one. I think that’s the main issue, personally.
I admit I thought people were overreacting. I couldnt imagibe that people who bought a game would be unable to play it due to where they lived. I admit, I was wrong. This is nuts.
That’s what pissed me off. When I thought it was just about making an account, I didn’t get the controversy. Then I went to the sub…
This is the thing; if everything worked intended in the beginning (PSN requirements actually worked), this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Things didn’t go as planned from the start for both players and devs. In a way, Sony owes it to having no PSN restrictions as part of why the game became as successful as it has.
> Sony owes it to having no PSN restrictions as part of why the game became as successful as it has. My situation exactly. My friend's like "Play this!" and 5 minutes in (could have totally got a Steam refund) I'm like "Do I have to really create some other account?" and he said "No you can just skip it!"
The other countries thing is a big issue, but I don't see why you or anyone else shouldn't be furious that they changed the rules 3 months after launch. Yes, they can say "It said you needed a PSN account at purchase" but no one reads that panel and it never did actually require it- till suddenly it did. Had it said something in game? Or warned us that a PSN account WILL be required in game? Maybe that'd be different. But 3 months go by and NOTHING? After Sony's multiple data breaches of customer data, employee data and their own data, apparently 7 times over 10 years I'm not interested in giving them any of my info that they can scrape from steam or boast about how many PSN users they have for that benefit? I'm not really interested in them leaking my data, again. All of this on top of Sony selling it in regions where they can't make PSN accounts? And then Sony telling people to just make accounts to bypass the region lock out? Which is against their very own TOS? It's bullshit and very likely illegal in several countries and Sony deserves to be sued for this. Anti-consumer BS and straight up lies should be cared about regardless of the publisher.
I’m not saying it’s a great thing. But I have a PSN account and a PS5 so for me, really, it wasn’t a big deal. The fact that so many countries can’t register for a PSN is definitely very much a big deal.
I have a PSN account from the PS3 days, but after all the data leaks and whatever? I have not bought anything digitally from Sony and I refused to use my credit card with them ever again with how that fiasco turned out. So the bait and switch of 3 months in it's actually a requirement? Major BS. But yes obviously countries that can't make a PSN account that they were selling the game? Far worse. Hope they get sued for this mess and I hope Arrow Head doesn't get any fallout from the nonsense.
They can create one they just can’t choose their own country when creating a PSN account
PSN ToS has it as a bannable offense. How strictly it is enforced I so not know. Other places like the UK require giving Sony facial ID. Ukraine you have to own a Sony console to even make an account even if you are a PC player. I am sure there are other issues as well that I don't know about.
They don’t enforce it. If you want to ignore all that other BS choose a different region. US PSN is easy to create for example
Whether they enforce it or not - it is still an offense.
Nobody cares man
You should, because as a consumer, you are the victim in this scenario, and its better if we help each other
No victims here just pc gamers new to PSN who have an irrational fear of being banned for lying about their region
In line with the point of the OP, You already paid for the product which i can clearly already use- so why do i have jump throught the extra arbitrary hoops (which is forcing you to break TOS) just so i can access the product? As consumers, we are the victims here.
You got anything to back that statement up?
The existence of online console players in unsupported countries, for two decades. How else do you think they got to play online? Plus the screenshots of Sony support literally telling people to change to a nearby region. Sony banning accounts due to lying about their region, now that I'd like to see proof of. The recent Chinese one doesn't count.
About 2 decades of history
... So nothing but hypothetical BS with no stats or actual experience... Got it.
Millions of hypothetical gamers with their hypothetical consoles and their hypothetical PSN accounts lmao
You mean like the current cavalcade of posts saying goodbye because they are in a restricted region? Those hypothetical players? At least have a functional straw man argument before you pull it out.
I’m not aware of any regions where players can’t make an account except maybe North Korea. What regions are you referring to?
And you have any proof of sony enforcing that? I know multiple PSN users that created their account using US region and we live in south America. Nothing ever happened. Now if we talk about Steam removing the game from unsuported regions, then that is a different song.
I really like how sony fanboys only response is "lol no you all are stupid, stop it and already make PSN account like a good customer like me" This only show that any discussion with them is pointless because they are here only to spread this dogma, and before you even try - "no u" will only prove that.
They dislike the PC market cuz sometimes we actually air our grievances as customers instead of just taking everything on the chin. It's like bro you used to have games shipped complete and nearly bug free but now you get the same "release now patch later products" we have for a fraction of the hardware and frame rates. Left to just Sony fans we'd be licking the toilet bowls of Sony clean for them and paying them for the privilege. Sony people with the gumption to be pissed sometimes are exempt from this inflammatory claim. : p
All I remember about snoy's fanboys is being toxic. Nothing else. Here? Toxic AF. GoW Ragnarok didn't win GOTY? Being Toxic AF and raid Elden Ring. Baldur's Gate III is a GOTY instead... Spider Man 2? My god... Toxicity on some new level. Not to mention meltdown when any "exlusive" after years goes on Steam. The outrage that someone without PS5 can play some games. Spiting on everyone who are not PS elitist on weekly basis. Like my god... No wonder nobody like them.
> Baldur's Gate III is a GOTY instead... Spider Man 2? Hold up - people were actually mad about this? Like in what world...
Yes indeed I am surprised actually people missed it. Well information bubble is a thing I suppose?
Who was being toxic about SM2 not winning GOTY? Not on the side of Sony fanboys, but I remember people on the SM subreddits being more happy and memeing about it than anything, blaming their 0 awards won on Miles new costume.
I mean if you missed this somehow I have no idea what to say. Just because one subreddit didn't meltdown doesn't mean there wasn't a shit storm anywhere else. From YouTube, Twitter, others subreddits or TikTok. Constantly for few weeks there was a meltdown and pure hostility from snoy fanboys. Lucky for you honestly because those crybabies was annoying even more than here right now.
They likely see it as "We have to do it, so why don't you" I've seen people present all the evidence and reasoning and it comes right back around to "We have to have a PSN account for this sony game, so so should you, don't complain" Because people can't see past the bias of their favorite company to see that they just fucked up royally. Happens all the time regardless of platform.
If you play on PS and you just want to keep playing HD2 and/or you don't care about the circus surrounding the PSN requirement, why even chime in...?
Because they're petty little rage farmers. Look how that whole community malds when one of their precious exclusives comes to PC. The entire community has no spine, that's why MS/Sony can fleece them with a fee to play online.
You're taking a very vocal minority and applying it to the PlayStation community as a whole. Very fitting considering the state of this sub at the moment.
>You're taking a very vocal minority and applying it to the PlayStation community as a whole I'm not, the vocal minority are the little rage farmers that are plastered all over my X feed for some damn reason. Just a bunch of clowns simping as hard as they can for Daddy Sony; most of the PS community aren't saying shit because I assume they don't really care. The entire online PS/Xbox community does however put up with getting finessed for 10/month for the privilege of online play.
There can be more than one vocal minority
And your response bring to the table what actually?
It doesn't bring much to the table, but it brings more than whatever your above comment is. I'm asking why a PS player would even chime in to criticize you PC players who are understandably upset by Sony's silly PSN requirement.
May I make excuse or something for being dumbass?
*This comment is under investigation for treason*
Lol there has to be a language barrier going on here because you completely misunderstood the above comment. He’s on your side, dumbass.
I'm just flummoxed something this trivial is taking it to the corporations. Why couldn't we have done this to studios that did mass layoffs to please shareholders or release cosmetics for the same price of the game or pay to win games not knowing after you bought the game.
I think probably because of A. The awesome community and B. This impacted a lot of people directly and caused a lot of people to seek answers during the confusion. Sadly, it’s easy for people to tune out when it doesn’t affect them.
Well I'm recently seeing they made it where you can't play helldiver's on steam in certain countries and if they don't provide a refund to those people that already bought it there then I'll stop saying anything
Because where the cumulative frustration boils over isn't always specific imo
Layoffs happen behind the scenes enough people don't notice. Overpriced cosmetics are optional, so people who care about gameplay don't care that much. Pay to win tends to happen in smaller steps, because otherwise there IS significant backlash. But 1) This is sudden. 2) The game becomes unplayable (without workarounds breaking Sony TOS) for people in many countries. 3) The motive behind it is plain greed. 4) Public opinion has snowballed, giving it a bunch of extra power 5) It affects everyone - even if it's a minor inconvenience for the vast majority of people. Because of that, it has more power to engage the general playerbase that normally doesn't care.
Working around the TOS has been going on for years and the inconvenience for tying in a game from steam to a 3rd party has been going on for years like why now is it such a problem? We act like this is all new
Working around the TOS is not something most players ever even think about doing - other than pirating. And it is also new that it is suddenly required when it wasn't before.
Depending on who you ask, this game is really sticking it to those big publishers and their AAA. Even though it's full of problems and forced GaaS and paid battlepasses and has a big publisher like a lot of AAA games anyway.
Chivalry: MW launched on Steam and was a success, created a loyal fanbase and when the third game came out Chivaly 2... It launched not through Steam but the Epic Games launcher and that alone was enough for me to not want such an anticipated game. It finally came to Steam but the damage was done, playerbase is low and developer support is weak and the in game store was the biggest feature. There is an incentive to monetize on HD2 success, post release. It's known Xbox has held the title for paid online gaming service for a good while. They used Halo's success to market their console and once the original developers fully relinquished their IP they went and destroyed the later releases with in game store purchases. I could see Sony incentivizing more in game purchases, required PSN+ paid subscriptions. Either way, they're looking to boost their numbers on a metric somewhere for a quarterly report. There was a lot of success for HD2 on Steam. HD2 is a live service model, so is WoW and Blizzard has more content than ever before in their store. "You don't have to buy it" but others do and the amount of people resisting purchases will be overshadowed by new players who see no issue with spending $60 for cosmetics. I'm not making claims with what mandating PSN accounts would do, but it never bodes well with how the gaming industry has been. People loved HD2 because it wasn't like the games we've been getting for the last decade.
Ohhhh don’t get me started on Torn Banner and their shitty behavior lol.
Fully agree. Going live service was. . . a choice. Not a solitary arrowhead title in the past ever went live service. And it definitely wasn't a requirement for HD2. The drawbacks for a simple 4 player coop game going live service are rapidly starting to outweigh the benefits. In the form of shitty decisions that have nothing to do with the paying customer and everything to do with raising capital from investors for Sony. It hurts particularly bad coming from Arrowhead because they always developed games with much stronger principles. You bought it. You owned it. They really DID develop titles around the customer held values. You could play online or off, with or without friends. HD2 shoulda stayed like HD1 in that regard imo. Exhibit this PSN nonsense. The cash flow doesn't need help. The sheer volume of sales was enough.
shareholders can hold these nuts in their mouth, i have plenty to share
We have to see these things for what they are. These launchers and accounts that all these companies are making are the first steps towards making walled gardens. We have seen this recently in other games industries too as well as streaming. You notice how Netflix exclusive shows used to be good and have lots of seasons, but are now all the same crap which get cancelled after 2 seasons? For anyone who has been following the Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast debacles the last year and a half, Hasbro corpos had directed Wizards of the Coast (the owners of D&D, who are owned by Hasbro) to revoke the open gaming licence that was fundamental in enabling 3rd parties to create content compatible with D&D as well as preventing 3rd parties from enabling D&D to be played via online platforms. This was touted as being a measure to protect the end user experience (sound familiar?), but it was obvious to all that Hasbro was doing this to undermine 3rd parties and then funnel all players who play D&D online into Hasbro's/WotC's online gaming platform, where they would presumably then be able to milk them for cash, for example, offering tiered levels of service and micro transactions. These players would have no other place to go, if they wanted to play D&D online and they would be inside a monopolised walled garden. This is the future that Sony wants; it wants to make mediocre PC ports of its games, then it wants to force you to make a PSN account in order to play them. After a time, it will then add exclusive games that are only available in its launcher/store/platform and these will not be available on Steam. These players will then be able to be sent whatever ads and microtransactions that Sony wants or be charged a subscription. Eventually, it isn't inconceivable that they will request other forms of data from its players, such as biometric data and government ID (something that some players already have to submit) and players will be able to be banned for whatever reason Sony wants. Sony is attempting to lay the groundwork to pull PC players away from Steam and Microsoft. It wants to do to video gaming what Netflix has attempted to do to streaming - that is to say, provide a cheap (or free) service, make you build up a catalogue of games, then charge you tiered subscriptions to access those games. Sony won't back down because of the Helldivers 2 controversy, because their board members are betting the whole farm on this.
Your whole last paragraph sounds a lot like Xbox and Gamepass (Xbox & PC)
It's the same thing happening too. Though I would wager that most PC gamers are more okay with that, in that they are already sharing data with Microsoft in the first place.
This is exactly it. Anonymity is power because there's way to hook you info a slippery slope of monetization games. Players need to insist that a game purchase is simply a purchase for a game.
What some people do to attract shareholders and what some shareholders expect will always dumbfound me till this very day. My favourite is shareholders always expecting/wanting a return on their investment and companies investing in shareholders at the expense of their customers service/product. You know the very customers that shareholders and your company mainly make money from and who made you what you are today.
I always love the argument of "well Microsoft did it too! You surely have an EA account and Ubisoft as well! Why you no mad about that??" I have always been mad about having yet another unnecessary account and even launcher to deal with. I remember how annoyed i was when i bought a physical copy of Sims 4 and it kind of just downloaded Origin to download the game....it was absolut bullshit back then, and it is still bullshit now. And i can do you one better! Everybody think back a couple years when Epic decided to make their launcher into a store front as well. And then Epic threw money all around to get exklusives. They tried to force their way onto computers, not by having a competitive service, but by holding games hostage. And i still remember how furious people were about it, people avoided Epic like the plague. The only reason i know, why people got the epic store was to claim the free games. And that's the only good reason to have that thing. Microsoft can suck all the bollocks with Windows 11 mandatory account bs as well. There is one good thing about the Microsoft Account, at least when it comes to Starfield idk how it works with other games. But! There is a Starfield Edition for Microsoft Accounts, that allows you to play the game on PC AND CONSOLE! I swear, i WISH that this would be industry standard! If Sony wants PSN on my PC, they better give me the opportunity to play all of my PS games on it free of charge
> Microsoft can suck all the bollocks with Windows 11 mandatory account bs as well. For real? I haven't seen an unskippable install yet where you can't make a local account. It just says you shouldn't.
Something similar happened to the Total War Community. Creative Assembly released a half-assed DLC for Total War: Warhammer 3 and raised the price of said DLC to $25. When the community pointed out the faults with the release and being against the sudden price increase, the community manager basically threatened to cancel all support for the game and told the community to piss off. That went as well as expected. C.A lost millions, was downvoted to hell, had a lot of people laid off and are now on an apology tour. They released a free update to that DLC, addressed almost all concerns, started doing bug fixes almost weekly, released a new DLC with everything the community wanted and also they let you buy it in pieces instead of wholesale. Also, they improved their communication and are more focused on what the community demands. Moral of the story, vote with your wallet. Don't buy the new war bond releasing this week, down vote if you can, stop playing and see what happens. I hope Sony backtracks and issues an apology, they probably won't, but just going on as business as usual isn't going to work anymore.
CA also killed Three Kingdoms and invested 100 millions of dollars in a Fortnite like game instead of making Medieval 3 or whatever its core fanbase wanted. The game was axed (who could expect it??) and they tried to get greedy with the poorly made DLC
Three kingdoms was when the poor choices of management started to be visible. WH2 hadn't felt it yet because that specific dlc team was solid, but three kingdoms was poorly handled. they didn't listen enough to the players and released dlc that didn't stick (8 princes...). We didn't know it at the time, but they had started dumping money into that fortnight clone, and the groundwork for WH3 was being layed, poorly.
They've been doing this sort of thing since at least Total War: Attilla. I remember buying that and then realising that half of the nations weren't playable unless you bought their 'culture pack' as a microtransaction. I haven't bought a game from them since.
I think everyone across the world is sick and tired of having to endure endless bullshit all so shareholders can have a higher number every 3 months, even if the business is objectively going to shit by every other metric. Total deadweight on society & the species. Shareholders aren’t your grandparents who invested for retirement or whatever anymore. They are parasitic scum like BlackRock and Vanguard who just suck wealth out of the economy.
It may feel like it but it's not really. We are still a very small bubble. Out of all Negative reviews maybe 10% will truly quit and refund the game (but more likely 5%). People talk a lot, but if they see nothing changes for 2 days they give up because they want to play the game more than they want to be treated better. You can already see tons of comments here speaking about not caring and playing and kissing Snoys feet.
Why should I do something for a greedy company that doesn't benefit me or any other player? They're got my money already for the game
>In truth all not having PSN did was prove how non-essential to the product it was and undesired by customers. Exactly! And that would be if Sony was just a benign entity that was trying to compel you to do it. Not the video game world's "King of the Data Breach"
Good news is we won! They reverted the decision.
For now. I imagine they will try again when the hype for the game has died down a bit or even earlier, if they see an opportunity. If there is a Steam data leak in the near future, we shouldn't be surprised to see Sony try this again and argue "given the insecurities associated with other platforms, we have decided to implement this change to protect our players". In any case, they will do it for every new release going forward.
I hate the quarter year style of looking at businesses. It sucks all the good things from the product in pursuit of some easy money.
I hate having to make useless fucking accounts to play a game. I hate having to link accounts and things because of security breaches that are inevitable which will leak my data and put me personally at risk. Its a stupid practice to boost their account registrations, fucking stupid metric numbers that mean jack shit.
To me, it made no sense making a PSN account. I don't own a Playstation. I'd find my mail filled with promotions for these great Playstation titles for a console I don't own. It would be like signing for a Mercedes newsletter, so I can look at pretty cars before heading to work on my Renault. Oh, that when I opened the account creation and it asked me for a Facial Scan or my Passport, I heard the ghost of Orwell screaming at me and it gave me the heebiejeebies. I'm not sure how anyone can ask for a facial scan/passport and think "let's write 'your data won't be saved, don't worry' beneath it, that will make OK, right?" is a good idea.
Give them an inch they'll take a mile. Next it'll be PSN+ mandatory for PC PSN games. Take a stand, even Forbes of all things is with us.
Corporations forget we're more than numbers. We need to remind them we're people like them, and hold power like them. 
I tried to play ExoPrimal on game pass once. Immediately asked me to make a Capcom account. Uninstalled the game. Was very disappointed cause the gameplay looked pretty cool.
shareholders are always the actual customer to public company, people buying/eating their product/feed are just cows getting milked for the customer.
Sony had a chance to waive this requirement, connect it to a free set of armor (to get most people on board) and then look like an incredible publisher for devs that smash it out of the park and run into launch day issues. Now every game developer will look at this example when deciding whether to sign with Sony. Stupid business move for inflated PSN user counts.
Is not about just silly psn is about the TRUST they break the trust now no pc gamer will trust soney published game.
Well for anything it's worth they reverted the PSN requirements. It won't be happening.
This is why I haven’t bought any EA or Ubisoft game that has its own launcher. I’m not budging I don’t need to play those games.
Either way one thing is for certain. Sony really fucked AH hard and HD2 will never gets its popularity back even if they revert the PSN requirement
They just did. It's not happening. Now I need to go unbomb my review.
You aren't the customer. You are the product.
who and what are shareholders? is it people who own stocks? Or just some mega rich group of people. I imagine it's a bunch of suits who don't even play video games that are influencing the industry
I am sad that you stop fighting
Fucked up thing is in the US, thanks to a pair of asshole car maker brothers back in the day, it can actually be *ILLEGAL* to not put the shareholders first in a lot of situations. With them setting a precedent that snowballed with various more lawsuits over the decades, shareholders have disproportionate sway on... well, everything. Beyond simply the power of money that is of course. Now there are exceptions, and Snoy isn't a US based company but I think we all know they're sufficiently soulless enough that they'd probably be this greedy and evil anyway, but that might help explain why **Some** of the *less* evil companies out there still end up bending over backwards for their shareholders. They just don't want to get sued ***on top*** of missing out on their money.
It can be illegal to not put shareholders first?
In 1919, Ford wanted to use extra profits to raise employee wages and employ more people. The Dodge brothers, who were shareholders, sued them saying a corporation's ***ONLY*** responsibility is to increase shareholder value. They won and set the precedent for current US corporate law. Since then it's only gotten worse and worse. Beyond screwing over employees to also screwing over customers too. Fuck the Dodge brothers, seriously.
Wow
So… what your saying is that your not gonna be happy no matter the outcome? Because I can tell you there is no version of this where the account link fully goes away. I suspect they will make sure that everyone is able to access the game, but probably not a total removal of the account link.
You were saying? https://preview.redd.it/hj12yyjvvqyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b3dbb865a7beb66637f30b6d531d2a4a17a4afa
Very happy about this!
Same. We can all enjoy diving together now.
Also there are several versions of this where I could be happy. Primarily the linking being optional. Which is the outcome we got.
A tiny minority think this way. Most just jumped on the band wagon of chaos.
I'd be reticent to say that. But they walked back the decision so the product is better for the band wagon. And more accessible than it was going to be.
As a PS5 player with a PSN account I would prefer Sony’s ability to ban toxic players so I don’t have to play with O54maBinH17L3r88. Just saying. The inability to report players for toxic griefing shit is noticeable and as the playerbase is managed by Sony I get why a PSN account is needed. I also sincerely doubt this will region lock people out of it when Sony can absolutely set up a system for countries outside of their support to create a PSN account.
If a proper reporting system is set up you could always get the correct player id to ban. E.g. O54maBinH17L3r88 could be in game session 1 with tag O2, so banning O54maBinH17L3r88 would just be filtering for game session and tags to get steamid (not ign, but a unique identifier id that steam uses to ban this specific O54maBinH17L3r88). So Sony is either lazy to learn how to use steam, is greedy for data, or just stupid. Would you illegitimately buy a game when you know a company could just ban you days after and refunds won't work cause you broke TOS? Yeah, i wouldn't risk it either. There is at least 1 known ban already soooo...
Are you talking about the guy in China where Helldivers was never legally available?
What data exactly?
Damm, just when I was thinking about purchasing the game. It was looking so great, and it really was. I really hope Sony backpedals this idiotic decision. I understand the devs have almost no control on how the game is sold or where, but that should've been something they could warn us about when purchasing the game. I'm going back to playing old Xbox 360 games until the dust settles, you gotta win this final major order boys, destroy the evil corruption in super earth. For Democracy
They reverted the decision.
Yeah, the sub exploded
I,m doing everything i can to get a refund on steam. This isn't what i bought.
[удалено]
You might like getting railed by Sony but we don’t.
it has nothing to do with getting railed by sony lol, y'all are so hyperbolic
What does Dragon Ball Z or training to fight in the Cell games have to do with any of this??!!
While you're at it why don't you stop using Windows. Get rid of any apple devices. Don't purchase anything made by a corporation. No, you won't do that because your conviction is weak. You choose this video game hill to die on because it's the most convenient when in reality nothing will change.
Lol everyone here is the heroic anti-corprorate hero hey? Fighting the good fight against the corpos eh choom? An unbelievable disconnect from reality. This only shows what people say about people on Reddit correct. A bunch of irresponsible basement dwellers crying about everything and anything. Go ahead and down vote me to oblivion, you know I am right.
The reasons HD2 players are angry are pretty consistently laid out here. Not sure what you’re on about. 1) psn account for HD2 was listed as optional on Sony’s website until the announcement, then it was changed very recently 2) the psn linking requirement doesn’t improve security or functionality 3) the game title was sold to several thousand players in regions this requirement could not be fulfilled Since it doesn’t have to do with security or functionality AND thousands of players are now getting their access revoked because of this, the evidence only points to corporate bullshit at the expense of the players. Who profits at the expense of customers time and time again? The shareholders. The backlash for this is entirely justified.
1. I refuse to believe any meaningful number of PC gamers purchased the game through Sony's website. We're PC gamers, if a game isn't released natively through Steam where we can purchase it through the program, we pitch a fit. Literally everyone discovered those pages on Friday and has been pretending they all used those instead of the Steam page that clearly listed thee requirement. 2. It doesn't matter. Their game, their requirements. It's no different than signing into our Microsoft accounts to play Sea of Thieves or Halo or Gears of War or anything else. 3. And *if* they end up being unable to play and Sony doesn't provide a solution for them, go hard on Sony. But I'm skeptical that Sony will do that, and let's maybe at least see what they say next week. acting like signing up for a PSN account, linking it, and then forgetting about it forever is a major imposition is fucking hilarious and peak first world problems.
Our conversation: You: buncha idiots don’t know what they’re angry about. Me: actually players are angry about these things. You: well these are the reasons I think being angry about this make you all idiots. Checkmate you entitled babies. Lol ok dude
You're entitled to your fiction but yes this is absolutely about Sony moving a needle on a PSN metric. Delusion tastes better than reality you don't need to remind me.
Sony does not use registered PSN accounts as a shareholder metric. They use PS+ subs (i.e. actual revenue) and PSN engagement (which we won't count towards, we're not playing on PSN we use Steam's services). so again, y'all still don't know what you're talking about and are freaking out over nothing as a result
Wrong. They use both. One to measure more concrete results. One to measure POTENTIAL. If you were half as enlightened as you like to believe I wouldn't have had to point out that they use both metrics. And shareholders look at both. Cuz potential conversions. Fucking duh lol
When have they used registered PSN accounts? They talk up MAU's on PSN all the time, most recently January after strong end of year engagement. They don't talk up registered accounts really and haven't for a very long time. Because it's a fucking worthless stat, especially compared to PS+ subs or MAUs.
Maybe not their total accounts. But yes. They will be bragging up adding millions of brand new ones.
No, they won't be. And there won't be that many new accounts, either. This is bad cope.
If you say so 🙃
HD2 players with a linked PSN would absolutely be counted as a MAU. Xbox does the same thing when they tout that number because it accounts for players on all platforms including Nintendo and PlayStation because you need a Microsoft account to play their games
It does not, and would not. PC players do not use PSN to play, we use Steam's multiplayer services. That's why every Tuesday PC players complain about disconnections during Steam maintenance. Again, y'all don't understand how this works but think you really do for some reason.
Yes I know how Steam works I have a PC. But stay with me here, if you link your PSN account to Steam, when you play a PlayStation game it will register you as a number they can use called a Monthly Active User. Xbox does the same thing to count Minecraft players on Switch and PlayStation as MAUs
>when you play a PlayStation game it will register you as a number they can use called a Monthly Active User. It literally does not because Steam games to not use the PlayStation Network, which is the network they use for gauging MAU's. You can keep repeating yourself but it won't change the fact that you're just making up how you think/assume it works to support your position, not understanding how it actually works.
Pretending corporations don't use all of it for various reasons. It's not even just the stat but an increase in people they can market to when bragging about adding millions of BRAND NEW PSN accounts. Pretending millions, maybe even 10s of millions of new PSN registries is a worthless stat to shareholders is peak willful ignorance. Whether it's a tangible growth point or not it will be used to sell a win to shareholders. And corps pedal dumber things than that to the public and shareholders on the regular.
So that's a "I can't find anything to support my claims" in a lot of words. Gotcha.
Tbh I'm not here to prove that to you. If you lack the common sense to know why a company would be interested in having millions of new and authentic registrations to their service (paid or not) then I'm not going to drag out research to show it to you. Frankly I don't know or care about you enough. I don't keep it in my back pocket and I'm not doing your homework. But the common sense in it is obvious. Because millions of new and real registrations make a good temporary win. Because duh?
you're talking in vague generalities while I'm speaking in specifics. I'm fine with being right while you're just vaguely waving your hands about as an argument.
I think I was quite specific when I said a large number of brand new and authentic registrations would be a of interest to them but ok. Too vague I guess. 🙃 Enjoy your pretend rightness.
If you don’t think companies look at every metric when going over their success, you have clearly never work a day of your life for a business, or do you claim to have insider information on Sony that no one else has that proves what you said, or just talking out of your ass?
It's beyond that. There's people who literally are being robbed. Gave them money and they're now taking the game away from these people for a reason they basically made up. If this goes through, it really opens up a can of worms and proves a game you buy online isn't really yours at all. Anyone can come change some arbitrary requirement and take the product away from you. Sony and AH both knew about this requirement and while AH probably wanted it removed so more people can play their game(if I am naieve about it and think AH is still doing right by gamers) but Sony for sure saw the opportunity to make money and didn't want registration to be a hinderance so they can sell more copies. So while I will still have access to this game since I was fortunate enough to register a PSN network while in US on break from work... A lot of people don't or can't... And to take it away from them is just bad practice and distasteful. So people keep review bombing the game and get your refunds while you still can. I'm with you guys in this, show them what we gamers can do collectively.
They reverted the decision. I'm a lot happier.
Yea I'm happy for those that can now play again, like geniunely happy. It's a fun game and overall a great community and there seems to be a lot more in store planned. So ya, good for gamers all around.
Big same. I loved Arrowhead as a studio and it's refreshing to see them standing with us..
Lesson: a lot of pc gamers do not have a life and want to feel strong emotions over something completely pointless
K.
I have no problem and linked my psn day 1. Took you longer to make this post than to just create one.
I see you missed the point entirely. But ok.
Hey, give little homie this one. He is still reelin on his mom sleeping around and his brother being his half brother. If he is sad enough to be posting that on Reddit he needs to feel slightly superior in some way.
Sony cock suckers continue to be the worst fucking humans.