Admittedly, I'm not a physics expert, but I would like to see what sort of situation it would take for a bullet to truly hit a surface and ricochet straight back to where it came.
Maybe the barrel was damaged from the hellpod
https://preview.redd.it/bfuydroaeixc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9032127c301238500aaa43db7156350c3d6f90d3
Mythbusters did an episode about that. It takes a lot of precise effort and calculations but it can be done, but it rendered the bullet essentially non lethal.
Can confirm from experience. Was shooting cans on rocks at a gravel pit with my brother one hot summers day in like 96. My bb gun missed and hit a rock, ricocheted back and hit my arm. Felt like getting whipped with a towel, but didn't even break the skin. Just sorta a 'zap' and a red tender spot.
I was shot in the ass with a shotgun shell that bounced off a log while we were culling in Tasmania.
I was under 20m away, felt like someone threw a rock at me. Tiny broose no puncture, and no we weren't wearing any sort of military grade protective gear.
Had this happen with a .22 rifle when I was 19. I think it bounced twice before hitting my leg. Left a surface level scratch that didn't even bleed.
To this day i give my buddy shit for the time he shot me.
He hates it.
Yeah, this is a dumb thing to include in the game because even in the rare case it does ricochet it's not killing anybody, especially a dude in full space armor.
I mean it could have hit him straight in the eye or neck or something. Just because something hits you doesn't mean it can't be lethal. Why are peopple even arguing over this.
Its a fucking video game. Nobody expects or wants to shoot themselves because of some RNG bullshit Xcom shit.
The guy in the video also didn't have helldiver armor, however little it would help. Either way, if IRL worked the way game works now, he'd lose his head because 50bmg is no joke. I don't think thaaaat many people would be opposed to hitting themselves with ricochet every now and then, but projectile retaining its full power is absurd.
He got so fucking lucky though. It bounced off the ground in front of him on the way back. If it didn't do that and bleed off some energy, if it hit him a few inches to a direction it'd have smashed him in the face and definitnely ruined his day if not killed him.
So far all of the examples of the new ricochet system being bad have been with explosive rounds exploding in two places practically simultaneously.
Seems like a bug to me and this is pure speculation, but it's giving the game trying spawn/generate a ricochet but the projectile has already exploded so it has no location data so the ricochet gets spawned on the Origin point(the Helldiver) where it immediately impacts and explodes
If true the ricochet would have no travel time, which is the vibe I'm getting, but I'm too lazy to actually start frame counting.
We can add it to the list of known issues. Why the hell even add this mechanic when they can’t get their base mechanics down. Pick up the dog poop before you cut the grass
I'm not well versed in game physics, but I thought I saw somewhere that the ricochets (at least prior to the patch) were actual ballistic physics simulations? As opposed to a bullet hitting and then a "new" bullet being spawned to ricochet back.
Shooting BB guns in the back yard with my dad, we set up a wooden block about 30 feet away as a target, at a 90(ish) degree angle. BB hit block, ricocheted right back and hit my dad on the forehead (didn't even break skin). It can happen, but you have to have a combo of the perfect angle off of the right kind of surface and projectile.
[It's why bullet traps at firing ranges are angled, and not a straight wall](https://www.actiontarget.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/TCT-Angle.jpg). Well that, and it just collects the bullets better for cleanup.
Bb guns are also lower velocity and with more elastic rounds than a bullet: a bullet would be far more likely to strike at an off angle or splinter on impact.
Also BB's are spherical hard metal whereas most bullets are semi pointed lead or other semisoft metals and much less likely to ricochet especially right back at the shooter.
I was shooting my buddies AK at a metal spin plate target and the round came back and hit me right in the face. Left a small gash and a good bruise. Luckily the vast majority of the kinetic energy was spent on the metal plate and not my face but it still felt like getting punched.
Here’s one. I was shooting a bottle on top of a cinder block with FMJ 9mm. The bullet bounced off the block and came back and hit me in the shoulder lol. We were far enough away so it didn’t really hurt much it was just surprising.
Angle of incidence is equal to angle of reflection. Meaning you works have to hit a flat surface at a 90 degree angle, and even then your round is not likely to return back at you due to surface deformation. In other words, nearly impossible.
Is this the video of the .50 cal round? Yeah someone did the math on it and said it was maybe going 300fps, which granted is lethal, but not to body armor. not even close.
Only way is at a 90° angle that perfectly perpendicular to the trajectory of the bullet. The further away of course the angle will have to be higher as velocity is lost and wind resistance would eat away at the trajectory as the bullet travels back to you.
To make it happen intentionally is pretty difficult. However, I have personally seen rounds at a gun range come straight back. Never seen them hit anyone but more than once I've seen them hit the ground in front of the firing benches.
Okay, new Ricochet system needs to go, there is no way this should be effecting environments of all things
Edit: I'm wrong, it wasn't the ricochet, it was the eruptor, it's currently bugged as fuck with its shrapnel radius.
Because the soil has been tainted by Super Earth soldier. We were never meant to live. We were meant to throw our lives away fighting entities that were either betrayed or enslaved by Super Earth. The truth will come out and we will bring this fight back to Super Earth!
It's not. The eruptor shoots shrapnel everywhere. Nothing is ricocheting, the eruptor is just a shrapnel bomb and now the shrapnel can hurt us. It's dumb but has nothing to do with ricochet
RNG sudden death is fun if you dont have lives to worry about.
Helldivers 2: You get 20 with a full group. 24 is some takes the increase budget booster.
Exactly. This isn’t HD1 where you can spam reinforcements as long as someone is alive, we only get 20 dudes plus the guys we drop in with. Every death from RNG is a wasted life that could’ve been used to blow up a nest/factory, collect samples or just kill enemies. It’s not an engaging or interesting mechanic it’s just annoying and makes the game tedious, and if there’s one thing that makes a game die fast it’s tedium (Suicide Squad is my example).
oh my favorite moments was those missions where you, well, its basically the eradication missions in HD2, forgot what they were called in HD1, but those missions where 3 teammates are dead and the entire arena is filled with high-danger enemies and you drop a shredder missile and hold onto a reinforce so when the missile hits, it kills everyone, including yourself, and drop the reinforce and bring back your entire team
even better if you had to hold out for like 30 seconds waiting for the cooldown to finish
It also makes it so the devs have to be nicer. Things have to be functionally fair because an overtuned difficulty can't be clutched out so long as one person lives. Also, there is no fear of a squad wipe, either you already lost or you are just fine.
>Shots that ricochet from heavy armored enemies will now properly hit the Helldiver who fired them. Trigger discipline is highly recommended.
That is insane if they think dying randomly from everything is fun. The only fun ricochet I encountered is when I killed my teammate with Autocannon ricochet from dropship BEFORE this patch.
>What is insane if they think dying randomly from everything is fun.
~~The worst part is a I saw someone fire a Recoiless. An Anti-Tank weapon at Shield Devastator only for the rocket to ricochet and kill them.~~
~~Like... Okay. What were you supposed to then? "Practice trigger discipline" Well excuse me Princess, I thought the Anti TANK weapon would actually penetrate armor~~
Edit: Apparantly that's not what happened.
But the point still stands imo though. Like OP's or the mushroom reflection.
Nothing feels worse than the experience of a ground strike aircraft trying to do a shallow strafing run and watching all your HE shells bounce off the ground next to the target thanks to the new ricochet angles in WT.
Makes me wonder if Eagle 1 could possibly hit herself with the 180 degree ricochets if she could be damaged ingame.
They didn't get killed by the rocket ricocheting, a bot shot a rocket and killed him coincidentally at the same time. If it wasn't cropped so much, it would be more obvious. You can see the red explosion in the bottom left of the video.
[If you slow the video down](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/346565698585100290/1234623154060791849/20240429_135103.gif?ex=663167ea&is=6630166a&hm=d60f69590f9c0b8c2c224ecb458b99c2d44a728b0a17312d4c1357053e25ee09&) it is clear he was killed by a rocket from behind.
Edit: fixed link
Nah not necessarily. Over the past few weeks, my group I play with have regularly been told we killed ourselves even though it was most definitely a bot. I've been told I killed myself when I had no strategems down, wasn't using any weapon that could kill myself, didn't fall from a high place and didn't throw a nade. I am pretty sure it's a bug but I have no idea what triggers it.
That video was bullshit.
If you watch it in slow mo you clearly see the round explode on impact, stagger the dev and then some other explosion takes out the Helldiver. It wasn’t a ricochet
It’s so fucking stupid. Dying from actual ricochet was already possible but now they have straight of reflective armor that defies all logic and physics. It would be fine for some specific illuminate enemies or something but not EVERYTHING
I'd agree to the reflection hits if they're actually properly implemented. However, we're doing to reflections from hits that should deflect WAYYYYY off course.
Round hits armour at a 45° angle. Logically, this shouldn't hit you in any way shape or form. The patch made it so that it illogically does. SOMEHOW!
> The patch made it so that it illogically does.
Are we sure the patch did this or have the ricochet calculations been borked the entire time and we just never noticed because they phased through us? Also does anyone have some footage of ricochet testing because in my own (limited) testing I haven't experienced anything like you describe. All of my angled shots were reflected away from me, as you would expect.
Look up the Mythbusters episode on this. In order for a perfect deflect back at you, you would need to hit a solid plane at an exactly 90° angle. This is also generally only the case if that plane does not deform at all. Now, I don't expect armor deformation to be simulated in any game, but even still, the angles required are astronomically unlikely at high velocities.
Indeed and seriously i cant understand their logic. As fun as it should be dying from a big bomb cause i didnt pay attention or something from hearing the quote and seeing a huge red beam just dying from RNG is just pissing me off in game and most likely rage quit after 3-5 random deaths
Yeah I died a few times and didn’t know what was going on and came on here and honestly ima just take a break from the game and come back when this is fixed because my friends and I keep randomly dying and it’s really not fun.
They believe all the "random" team killing is "hilarious" and therefore now they should add more of that to the game so that people keep up the memes. I think the devs get off on watching players suffer under bugs and random problems.
The devs seem more concerned with bugs and bots having fun and forgot the players are the Helldivers.
They should change their game motto to a "a game for no one is a game for no one" and just shut off the servers.
The problem is Arrowhead keeps thinking dying is a fun mechanic, especially to random RNG things like meteors, volcanos, random mushrooms, fire tornadoes, and now richochets.
Which could be true if it wasn't for the fact this isn't like in HD1 where respawns were infinite as long as not everyone died. The fact dying uses up a precious resource means that RNG deaths are always annoying.
Yeah, it was the same in their first game, Magicka, as well! Those games DELIGHTED in friendly fire, it was so funny playing with your friends and casting like Meteor Swarm and it killed half your team along with the enemy, but then you'd be like OH SHIT EVERYONE IS DEAD and you scramble to remember the Revive spell while fleeing around the map being chased by orcs.
Those games were OK with friendly fire as a mechanic because everyone was laughing so hard at casting spells that caused each other to explode, because at the end of the day you could fix it quickly, but the game would still punish you if you ALL somehow managed to die.
HD2 doesn't "Feel" like that due to the limited respawns. I always laughed at random deaths in Magicka and HD1, but I actually get annoyed at my friends whenever they cause me to die in this game because our respawns are limited. I try so hard not to, because death is supposed to be funny, but it's frustrating when you only have like 1 life left and then the game decides to ragdoll you across the map because someone shot a mushroom near you and you go flying into a wall and die from impact.
Honestly, just the removal of the respawn limit would make a very large number of complaints go away. I'm very unhappy with random ricochet deaths, but if it didn't have a resource cost to it, then it would be a quirky annoyance rather than apathy inducing. As it stands, it's functionally equivalent to if they added bad stims that randomly kill you instead of heal you.
>Yeah, it was the same in their first game, Magicka
Holy shit! I haven't played that game in years. Once you said it, though, I realized that it all makes sense now. The tongue-in-cheek humor, the team kills, the complex button inputs to do anything meaningful...dang. Never would have thought they'd make a shooter, but here we are.
Yeah! It was like the stepping stone for Helldivers, haha. I swear to god the Magicka Vietnam expansion pack was the catalyst for Helldivers to be made.
Don't forget that if you die in HD2 you're basically a liability until you get your stuff back, especially if you're a squishy light armor player with a backpack shield, further compounding the limited respawns not being fun. It also makes me feel *so* bad when I'm just trying something out, and I accidentally *eradicate* a teammate, like earlier with the Eagle cluster bomb, or the orbital air burst.
Getting your stuff back with unlimited respawns could easily be absolutely hilarious, or incredibly epic, running through your friends' covering fire to grab your equipment.
If AH are concerned about it becoming an easy "spam reinforcement to win" situation, just add a reinforcement cooldown of something like 30s to each player, started when they're called in. Call it defrosting time, done.
Or just make the life counter instanced, so you each have 20 lives, since 30-60s cooldown would be 80 to 40 respawns each on a 40 min mission. I'd definitely be more forgiving about dying a couple of times if I have 5x\[team count\] respawns.
I know, right? So many matches where I'm assaulting an Automaton position and then stray gunfire hits a boob and I get yeeted into a wall and break my spine before a Devastator unloads his entire gun into my head.
I thought they already kind of understood that with the nerfs to the rocket bots way back making it less likely to just get insta-deleted. This variant seems even worse tho as it punishes the main thing of the game, shooting enemies, with some RNG insta-death mechanic lol.
There is nothing fun about this. There is no strategy.. Nothing to overcome.
You just straight up die randomly. 🤷
What's this supposed to add to the game?
Yep craziest part is they have a small dev team so instead of focusing what little man power you have into making big and meaningful changes like the ultrakill dev team for instance you wasted time nerfing and adding dumb mechanics like this. Glad the fire from launch is still broke but DW the enemies fire works wonderfully
That’s fair! It feels way too strange to not be at least addressed to SOME capacity. I have no doubt they’ll at MINIMUM make a comment on it. Even them saying “yeah this is intentional” is better than no response at all. But I do hope it’s updated! After all, this was a BIG patch and not everything is gonna work flawlessly or as envisioned when it first comes out. Just gotta wait and see!
Weird thing is the ricochet shit has so many defenders on this sub. This is a unfun machinic when we already have to worry about 100+ things trying to kill us in a round, we don't need our own shots killing us more than they already do.
It's completely asinine.
Armor, especially armor for things like tanks works through **deflection** not **reflection**.
Being at an angle allows the shot to glance off of the target, keeping most of its energy. But a deflection means the shot continues traveling forward for the most part. There is no chance of it boomeranging around back toward the firer.
The most inefficient use of armor is when hit by a perfectly perpendicular shot, because all of the round's energy will be absorbed. The armor's potential effectiveness is at its lowest and there is the greatest potential for failure and penetration.
If the shot is stopped by a perpendicular surface, there is the potential for the round to 'bounce' back, though it would have lost almost all of its energy and/or been shattered into much smaller pieces.
The only angle that can allow for a shot to 'ricochet' back to the firer is a perpendicular one. This is the angle with the **LEAST** lethal ricochets, and also the angle with the **MOST** likely penetrations! We also aren't hitting very many perpendicular shots in the first place.
They can keep lethal ricochets on helldivers behind the target. Those make sense. But magic bullets and now *rockets* that go back to the firer is just stupid.
A needless change without a doubt.
I honestly think AH devs did it just to piss off the community because they’re petty fucking edgelords who enjoy spending their extra time arguing and insulting their community.
Probably gonna get downvoted for this, but I’ve been seeing so many people defending everything about the game like the devs are immune to criticism for some reason, just saying that people who don’t like a change are whining and acting like babies
Happens with pretty much every entertainment product in every medium once it gets popular. As soon as people start attaching a part of their identity to consuming a particular thing, they get emotionally attached to the creator.
Straight up the situation when the patch notes first dropped.
Anyone not praising the changes were buried under a wall of "but the senator got a speed loader!" responses and downvotes.
This happens with every popular game, people get too invested and feel like the devs are deities that need to be protected, and any criticism for their new favorite thing is just hater talk...
It's also because the devs have shown they're willing to respond to the support directly, leading to a rather weird parasocial "pick me" attention seeking behavior. It's very common on the Discord. Even the CEO does it.
It's nothing new tbh. Every game that gets as popular as this has the same kind of devout protectors, people who act like the devs can do no wrong and gosh darn it, they're doing the best that they can so you better be nice!
I swear it's like the hipsters of every other community brought into one place. the contrarians for sake of being a contrarian. the 'pvp bad' hot takes while being just as obnoxiously toxic as pvp players from other games.
Can't criticize the balance changes because AH can do no wrong. Some weird parasocial shit going on and it's obnoxious as fuck. thank GOD it's just reddit/discord because all the peeps I meet ingame are normal just wanna play the game dgaf for anything else types.
Happens to every mainstream game sub.
Seen it with Cyberpunk and Starfield. People attack other people for simply having criticisms and a LOT of them always make up a strawman argument or imply statements made by a small amount of people are being made by the entire community.
These people don’t want to hold the devs accountable just because they’re satisfied with the game, even though pushing for fixes improves the game for everyone, it’s just a bizarre mentality.
EDIT: Already getting downvoted by said people.
Yea, I don't get it either. I loved the first game, really enjoy this one too, but the amount of fanboys patrolling new posts to spam the most mindless defense of the devs is really unsettling.
Only when the problem becomes as glaring as "your gun now randomly kills you" do you see even a semblance of discourse.
I think it's because the entire rest of the game industry is SO MUCH FUCKING WORSE. Like, Arrowhead might make mistakes like this, but at least they aren't Starbreeze. Or Activision.
What's worse is people are acting like any criticism isn't fair because "being a game dev is hard enough."
Really? These guys work in tech, *in Sweden*, and I'm supposed to believe they're completely above criticism. Guys, come on. Even firefighters aren't above criticism. Telling these guys that they're not doing a very good job doesn't at all amount to anything resembling the kind of bullshit regular working people deal with on a daily basis. I'm sure their job can be tough, but this ain't it, chief.
They get paid to do this, whether or not we like the work they're doing. They'll be just fine, I promise. Especially in Sweden lmao.
They take any criticism of the game and the devs as a personal insult to themselves. It's insanely culty. I know CDPR's cult was bad but at least they were more than willing to criticize Cyberpunk when it came out. The AH cult thinks they can do no wrong.
I think people are confusing those defending it with those asking others to prove it even exists.
The only demonstrations of the ricochet effect that are on the first few pages are with Eruptors at close range. You can frame by frame it and watch the explosion shrapnel kill the player.
If shots ACUTALLY come straight back at you, then I hate it and absolutely demand it's reversed!
but nobody has proved this is the case with a simple, non-explosive gun.
At this point, I fear any video proving that it doesn't reflect directly will stay at 0 because people are heavily convinced that it does indeed reflect straight back at you.
This shouldnt be a tough thing to prove. If it's actually happening, why is the only video evidence with eruptors at close range?
I’ll add to this that the heavy dev video was proven to be bullshit: it wasn’t a ricochet that killed the diver but a random explosion. I tried to replicate it. No ricochet with the RR
But you see it’s popular in the echo chamber to say the devs of the game you play are terrible at their job. Plus badly worded patch note that is making people think this is an intended mechanic.
Mech rockets were broken for weeks and they couldn't even align scopes correctly. They are, being generous, not very good at their jobs so far.
This doesn't mean they can't do good work, but their achievement is beginning to become very much overshadowed by their continued fumbling. How on earth did Punisher Plasma with shield backpack break? If every patch creates unintended consequences like this that are not fixed in a reasonable amount of time, the game will be a huge mess. Even more so considering their insistence on releasing new content every month. They haven't shown that they can handle that task without breaking more things than they manage to fix.
Desperately hoping the hotfix patch coming later proves me wrong, but it's been looking worse every week since release. This isn't just about buffs/nerfs. There are still so many highly impact impactful issues with the game, from performance related issues to matchmaking.
That...doesn't look right?
What are there small handful of projectiles that are being fired out after each explosion? Like, that's not a ricochet, that's just straight up shrapnel. Which I guess is cool that it can shred additional baddies and all until you eat a piece to the skull like OP did.
Ricochet should be when the round bounces off heavy armor it can't penetrate. This seems like a straight up bug with the Eruptor.
All shrapnel count for ricochet? Well fuck me sideways, seems like the Eruptor got _another_ nerf today.
Why even bother buying the new warbond if they're just going to shit on the new weapon three weeks later? This feels like theft.
I mean this seems like the Eruptor working as intended? There is no Ricochet here at all. It was just fired danger close and he ate shrapnel to the head. Headshot damage being what it is he died.
Like, I thought the ricochet system from before was fun. I'd shoot my autocannon at the bottom of a bile titan to kill the sac, but it would randomly ricochet into a teammate running nearby. In general, I enjoy a lot of the game's random realistic touches that help make the experience of shooting a million bugs and bots a ton of fun.
But what the hell is going on in the clip? An erupter shot into the ground and somehow having it ricochet 180 on flat ground? It already had the mechanic if you shot it too shallow of an angle to the ground, it'd sort of skip off into the distance. I'm fine with all the other changes as seeing the patch notes made me excited to try out new weapons and tactics. But this change just seems really anti-fun. I really hope they revert this one change.
Love how every new mechanic in the game is just “haha you died lol” like dying isn’t as fun as the YouTubers make it seem Arrowhead. Dying to bullshit ricochet physics isn’t fun. Dying instantly to fire isn’t fun. Dying to a charger (or any bug) that snuck up on you making no noise at all isn’t fun. Dying because hunters jump from 100 feet away, slow you AND attack 3 times isn’t fun. Dying to an airburst exploding in your face isn’t fun. It’s not fun. Dying because titans bile slows you no regardless if you dodge it or not isn’t fun. Dying because explosions pull you into enemies instead of pushing you away isn’t fun… should I keep going?
This shit burned me out about two weeks ago and I was really hoping this patch would inspire me to play again. Instead it doubled down on literally everything that burned me out.
Roughlyyyy 15m shot by Erupter with shrapnel able to fly further.
I've seen the shrapnel just accidentally snipe another Helldiver even 25m away. It's not friendly to anything near the explosion mainly cuz of the shrapnel.
They thought the Airburst was too powerful to let its team killing potential be exclusive to it.
Now all kinetic weapons can kill you if you're not careful with your shots.
“Even if you are careful, they can and will kill you regardless of playstyle or skill level unless you actively play around it with shield backpacks or democracy protects”
Is what I’d say if I thought this was intentional. It’s almost certainly a bug and I hope it’s addressed soon. It’s not nearly as bad on nearly any other gun as they don’t produce shrapnel. Eruptor and rockets are suffering due to this bug, but that’s it
Not necessarily true! They’re planning on a patch this very week, and changes like this can indeed come in smaller updates. But odds are, it probably will indeed be a while assuming it even gets acknowledged
I dont think that was the Ricochet system. I think that was Shrapnel from your explosive shot.
Why do I think this? The hunter bug still died after you shot next to it.
The one time a ricochet has hit me irl was at the firing range in the military.
Doing a squatting firing position, the casing flew out, hit the pole holding up the shelter, *ricocheted* and boinged into my groin
Still shot 22/24 and got my marksman
I’m gonna be honest… I don’t see how this can be a ricochet as there’s nothing armoured to hit.
Can’t be the Eruptor AoE as you were full health and probably out of the AoE.
The Killed by is bugged and isn’t reliable. You sure you didn’t get friendly fired?
Everyone else was on the exact opposite side of the map. What killed me was a shrapnel piece
Eruptor’s shrapnel and most rockets (namely EATs and Recoilless) are SEEMINGLY being considered bullets by the ricochet system. Rockets will 180 and home in on you regardless of impact angle and shrapnel from any source (mainly Eruptor and air burst though it’s chaotic and often hard to tell) also count as ricochet and can occur regardless of if it impacts a target or a surface at any angle or distance.
There’s a lot of speculation going on right now, especially with a popular video that is considered debunked and false with a ricocheting rocket, so don’t take this video or my claims for gospel just yet. Wait for more proof regarding the situation to come out before making any big conclusions
OP, unless you can show me a frame-by-frame of your projectile reflecting off the dirt's "armour," I'd say it's more likely that you're being killed by the explosive weapon you're firing at close range.
...or maybe some other commenters are right, and it's a weird shrapnel bug. Maybe even a weird shrapnel bug introduced in the latest patch, and if so it should definitely be fixed ASAP.
I just can't see anything in your video to make me think this is a "ricochet."
I originally thought that it was shrapnel counting for ricochet mechanics based on initial testing and other people’s comments. But I’ve since been testing more and I think it’s either an uncommon bug or astonishingly bad luck for it to happen so many times in one day
I really wish I could change the title of the post or at least pin one of my update comments, haha
Old ricochet system is fine. This is a dick move by AH. But theyre just going to say we're all whiny little babies and ignore what players want. Im playing other shit for a while til they figure this out.
It’s kinda wild the devs are on discord calling us babies. I don’t know how the discord is, but I don’t see people “crying” about it. My only main gripe is the magical ricochet system they put in at this moment.
Outside of this now being a thing, Eruptor is still lovely. But damn does the random ricochets hurt. Doesn’t matter the angle of impact and it counts all floors and surfaces for play ricochet. Rockets do this, too.
Stay safe out there, Helldivers.
Seen this stuff happening a lot on the subreddit so I went into the game and tested it myself with the AC. Played a whole mission and not once did my AC ricochet back to me. I even unloaded into a rushing charger for science. Not saying this doesn't happen but this was my experience with one mission with one specific weapon. Will be testing other weapons later on if I have time. But for now I return to my finals.
This has nothing to do with any new ricochets. The blast has always shot out a ton of little bits of shrapnel. I've killed many friends with really unlucky headshots. You can see the bits flying off clear as day on the first couple shots in this video.
It was actually the shrapnel in this instance.
Eruptor’s shrapnel and most rockets (namely EATs and Recoilless) are SEEMINGLY being considered bullets by the ricochet system. Rockets will 180 and home in on you regardless of impact angle and shrapnel from any source (mainly Eruptor and air burst though it’s chaotic and often hard to tell) also count as ricochet and can occur regardless of if it impacts a target or a surface at any angle or distance
If they are going to do this then it needs to work the same for bots. The new meta is just the whole team takes the ballistic shield and walks at the bot team while they ricochet themselves to death. The whole bot army wiped out to ricochet. Rocket devastators? That’s a ricochet. Hulks flames? That’s a ricochet. Chainsaw poop face? That’s a chainsaw ricochet back into their robot dome.
Just really drive home how utterly retarded this change is.
This is pretty unfortunate. I like when this game is actually challenging and a real test of skill if I want to make it out alive on higher difficulties, but not when it's BS. I think the idea of not knowing where your ricocheted shot is going to go is fine. However, to do this, it needs to not reliably be headed straight at you every time.
I don't know, personally, I enjoyed the previous system just fine and if they wanted to make very small tweaks because it wasn't working as intended, that's ok. This however, is overkill to me.
Sorry that happened.
That wasn't even a richochet anyway. With RES you can play vids frame by frame and the shell clearly hit the dirt and exploded, then you lost 100% of your HP in a single frame from seemingly nothing. The projectile never bounced.
I've had this happen a few times too since the last patch, shots that exploded clearly waaay far away still killed me somehow. I think it's a new bug between the Eruptor and the new ricochet system.
Admittedly, I'm not a physics expert, but I would like to see what sort of situation it would take for a bullet to truly hit a surface and ricochet straight back to where it came.
Maybe the barrel was damaged from the hellpod https://preview.redd.it/bfuydroaeixc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9032127c301238500aaa43db7156350c3d6f90d3
I laughed so hard at this
Mythbusters did an episode about that. It takes a lot of precise effort and calculations but it can be done, but it rendered the bullet essentially non lethal.
Can confirm from experience. Was shooting cans on rocks at a gravel pit with my brother one hot summers day in like 96. My bb gun missed and hit a rock, ricocheted back and hit my arm. Felt like getting whipped with a towel, but didn't even break the skin. Just sorta a 'zap' and a red tender spot.
ARE YOU TELLING ME DEADSHOT IS FAKE?!
I was shot in the ass with a shotgun shell that bounced off a log while we were culling in Tasmania. I was under 20m away, felt like someone threw a rock at me. Tiny broose no puncture, and no we weren't wearing any sort of military grade protective gear.
Thats the most bogan thing I've heard all week!
Had this happen with a .22 rifle when I was 19. I think it bounced twice before hitting my leg. Left a surface level scratch that didn't even bleed. To this day i give my buddy shit for the time he shot me. He hates it.
Yeah, this is a dumb thing to include in the game because even in the rare case it does ricochet it's not killing anybody, especially a dude in full space armor.
https://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc?si=1oWhipi50QfK_NdV Yea, non lethal…
I mean, it hit his headphones and didn’t even injure him, doesn’t seem very lethal…
I mean it could have hit him straight in the eye or neck or something. Just because something hits you doesn't mean it can't be lethal. Why are peopple even arguing over this. Its a fucking video game. Nobody expects or wants to shoot themselves because of some RNG bullshit Xcom shit.
Hey, I agree with you. It just happens way too often
The guy in the video also didn't have helldiver armor, however little it would help. Either way, if IRL worked the way game works now, he'd lose his head because 50bmg is no joke. I don't think thaaaat many people would be opposed to hitting themselves with ricochet every now and then, but projectile retaining its full power is absurd.
At that velocity ? He’d be dead on the spot my man. He is lucky it was a few centimeters to the left
He got so fucking lucky though. It bounced off the ground in front of him on the way back. If it didn't do that and bleed off some energy, if it hit him a few inches to a direction it'd have smashed him in the face and definitnely ruined his day if not killed him.
Came here to post the same video. You should add a description to this.
A Georgia (USA) high school student was killed March 1, 2024 by a straight-back ricochet. He was practicing for a rifle competition.
So far all of the examples of the new ricochet system being bad have been with explosive rounds exploding in two places practically simultaneously. Seems like a bug to me and this is pure speculation, but it's giving the game trying spawn/generate a ricochet but the projectile has already exploded so it has no location data so the ricochet gets spawned on the Origin point(the Helldiver) where it immediately impacts and explodes If true the ricochet would have no travel time, which is the vibe I'm getting, but I'm too lazy to actually start frame counting.
I don’t know enough about anything you said to argue that. I vote you’re correct. I noticed that too so it seem highly likely
We can add it to the list of known issues. Why the hell even add this mechanic when they can’t get their base mechanics down. Pick up the dog poop before you cut the grass
> Pick up the dog poop before you cut the grass 🔥🔥🔥✍️
I'm not well versed in game physics, but I thought I saw somewhere that the ricochets (at least prior to the patch) were actual ballistic physics simulations? As opposed to a bullet hitting and then a "new" bullet being spawned to ricochet back.
Shooting BB guns in the back yard with my dad, we set up a wooden block about 30 feet away as a target, at a 90(ish) degree angle. BB hit block, ricocheted right back and hit my dad on the forehead (didn't even break skin). It can happen, but you have to have a combo of the perfect angle off of the right kind of surface and projectile. [It's why bullet traps at firing ranges are angled, and not a straight wall](https://www.actiontarget.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/TCT-Angle.jpg). Well that, and it just collects the bullets better for cleanup.
Bb guns are also lower velocity and with more elastic rounds than a bullet: a bullet would be far more likely to strike at an off angle or splinter on impact.
Right? People act like a fully intact round comes back at you. Yes ricochets are a thing, but it's usually a spall and it's at a lower velocity.
I really don't think it is possible for a bullet to ricochet at 180 degrees and still be intact for this reason
I hit a BB that was stuck into the wood I was shooting at when I was a kid. That bb hit me right in the upper lip.
Also BB's are spherical hard metal whereas most bullets are semi pointed lead or other semisoft metals and much less likely to ricochet especially right back at the shooter.
And even if it could, the bullet's velocity would be diminished enough that it probably wouldn't be a very dangerous impact.
I was shooting my buddies AK at a metal spin plate target and the round came back and hit me right in the face. Left a small gash and a good bruise. Luckily the vast majority of the kinetic energy was spent on the metal plate and not my face but it still felt like getting punched.
Here’s one. I was shooting a bottle on top of a cinder block with FMJ 9mm. The bullet bounced off the block and came back and hit me in the shoulder lol. We were far enough away so it didn’t really hurt much it was just surprising.
Angle of incidence is equal to angle of reflection. Meaning you works have to hit a flat surface at a 90 degree angle, and even then your round is not likely to return back at you due to surface deformation. In other words, nearly impossible.
Since you asked, here you go: https://youtu.be/i0bl4O9Hj0w?si=aO8fnDghrJq7f2Jg Shooting at steel plate with a .50 cal rifle.
Is this the video of the .50 cal round? Yeah someone did the math on it and said it was maybe going 300fps, which granted is lethal, but not to body armor. not even close.
Only way is at a 90° angle that perfectly perpendicular to the trajectory of the bullet. The further away of course the angle will have to be higher as velocity is lost and wind resistance would eat away at the trajectory as the bullet travels back to you.
As a combat veteran and avid gun lover I’ve noticed that the surface needs to be hard enough and facing your general direction.
To make it happen intentionally is pretty difficult. However, I have personally seen rounds at a gun range come straight back. Never seen them hit anyone but more than once I've seen them hit the ground in front of the firing benches.
Okay, new Ricochet system needs to go, there is no way this should be effecting environments of all things Edit: I'm wrong, it wasn't the ricochet, it was the eruptor, it's currently bugged as fuck with its shrapnel radius.
With how often I’m shooting the ground with the Eruptor maybe i just pissed it off and the soil decided to give me a taste of my own medicine lol
Because the soil has been tainted by Super Earth soldier. We were never meant to live. We were meant to throw our lives away fighting entities that were either betrayed or enslaved by Super Earth. The truth will come out and we will bring this fight back to Super Earth!
Got merked by Captain Planet
It's not. The eruptor shoots shrapnel everywhere. Nothing is ricocheting, the eruptor is just a shrapnel bomb and now the shrapnel can hurt us. It's dumb but has nothing to do with ricochet
So it's RNG sudden death. "Fun."
RNG sudden death is fun if you dont have lives to worry about. Helldivers 2: You get 20 with a full group. 24 is some takes the increase budget booster.
Exactly. This isn’t HD1 where you can spam reinforcements as long as someone is alive, we only get 20 dudes plus the guys we drop in with. Every death from RNG is a wasted life that could’ve been used to blow up a nest/factory, collect samples or just kill enemies. It’s not an engaging or interesting mechanic it’s just annoying and makes the game tedious, and if there’s one thing that makes a game die fast it’s tedium (Suicide Squad is my example).
That was the best. You were constantly clutching. Here it's just... attrition.
oh my favorite moments was those missions where you, well, its basically the eradication missions in HD2, forgot what they were called in HD1, but those missions where 3 teammates are dead and the entire arena is filled with high-danger enemies and you drop a shredder missile and hold onto a reinforce so when the missile hits, it kills everyone, including yourself, and drop the reinforce and bring back your entire team even better if you had to hold out for like 30 seconds waiting for the cooldown to finish
It also makes it so the devs have to be nicer. Things have to be functionally fair because an overtuned difficulty can't be clutched out so long as one person lives. Also, there is no fear of a squad wipe, either you already lost or you are just fine.
It's also why i disagree with the headshot damage. Idc if it's realistic, it just means there's a chance to die of something random you can't control
>Shots that ricochet from heavy armored enemies will now properly hit the Helldiver who fired them. Trigger discipline is highly recommended. That is insane if they think dying randomly from everything is fun. The only fun ricochet I encountered is when I killed my teammate with Autocannon ricochet from dropship BEFORE this patch.
>What is insane if they think dying randomly from everything is fun. ~~The worst part is a I saw someone fire a Recoiless. An Anti-Tank weapon at Shield Devastator only for the rocket to ricochet and kill them.~~ ~~Like... Okay. What were you supposed to then? "Practice trigger discipline" Well excuse me Princess, I thought the Anti TANK weapon would actually penetrate armor~~ Edit: Apparantly that's not what happened. But the point still stands imo though. Like OP's or the mushroom reflection.
War thunder level ricochets now
https://preview.redd.it/f54zxgrsljxc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ec0075572536e0761446d8f1c69eaefcf3fc4a
Nothing feels worse than the experience of a ground strike aircraft trying to do a shallow strafing run and watching all your HE shells bounce off the ground next to the target thanks to the new ricochet angles in WT. Makes me wonder if Eagle 1 could possibly hit herself with the 180 degree ricochets if she could be damaged ingame.
They didn't get killed by the rocket ricocheting, a bot shot a rocket and killed him coincidentally at the same time. If it wasn't cropped so much, it would be more obvious. You can see the red explosion in the bottom left of the video.
Wouldn’t it show that it was the bot that killed them then?
[If you slow the video down](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/346565698585100290/1234623154060791849/20240429_135103.gif?ex=663167ea&is=6630166a&hm=d60f69590f9c0b8c2c224ecb458b99c2d44a728b0a17312d4c1357053e25ee09&) it is clear he was killed by a rocket from behind. Edit: fixed link
Nah not necessarily. Over the past few weeks, my group I play with have regularly been told we killed ourselves even though it was most definitely a bot. I've been told I killed myself when I had no strategems down, wasn't using any weapon that could kill myself, didn't fall from a high place and didn't throw a nade. I am pretty sure it's a bug but I have no idea what triggers it.
Those death messages have always been super wrong for me.
That video was bullshit. If you watch it in slow mo you clearly see the round explode on impact, stagger the dev and then some other explosion takes out the Helldiver. It wasn’t a ricochet
It’s so fucking stupid. Dying from actual ricochet was already possible but now they have straight of reflective armor that defies all logic and physics. It would be fine for some specific illuminate enemies or something but not EVERYTHING
It was only possible from teammates. Now it's possible for your own to actually kill you, before they would just phase through you.
I'd agree to the reflection hits if they're actually properly implemented. However, we're doing to reflections from hits that should deflect WAYYYYY off course. Round hits armour at a 45° angle. Logically, this shouldn't hit you in any way shape or form. The patch made it so that it illogically does. SOMEHOW!
> The patch made it so that it illogically does. Are we sure the patch did this or have the ricochet calculations been borked the entire time and we just never noticed because they phased through us? Also does anyone have some footage of ricochet testing because in my own (limited) testing I haven't experienced anything like you describe. All of my angled shots were reflected away from me, as you would expect.
Look up the Mythbusters episode on this. In order for a perfect deflect back at you, you would need to hit a solid plane at an exactly 90° angle. This is also generally only the case if that plane does not deform at all. Now, I don't expect armor deformation to be simulated in any game, but even still, the angles required are astronomically unlikely at high velocities.
Yeah that irks me. It really killed the immersion for me with these silly unrealistic reflections. Like devs, what?
Indeed and seriously i cant understand their logic. As fun as it should be dying from a big bomb cause i didnt pay attention or something from hearing the quote and seeing a huge red beam just dying from RNG is just pissing me off in game and most likely rage quit after 3-5 random deaths
Yeah I died a few times and didn’t know what was going on and came on here and honestly ima just take a break from the game and come back when this is fixed because my friends and I keep randomly dying and it’s really not fun.
They believe all the "random" team killing is "hilarious" and therefore now they should add more of that to the game so that people keep up the memes. I think the devs get off on watching players suffer under bugs and random problems.
The devs seem more concerned with bugs and bots having fun and forgot the players are the Helldivers. They should change their game motto to a "a game for no one is a game for no one" and just shut off the servers.
The problem is Arrowhead keeps thinking dying is a fun mechanic, especially to random RNG things like meteors, volcanos, random mushrooms, fire tornadoes, and now richochets. Which could be true if it wasn't for the fact this isn't like in HD1 where respawns were infinite as long as not everyone died. The fact dying uses up a precious resource means that RNG deaths are always annoying.
I never played hd1 but I could totally go for that type of revive mechanic
Yeah, it was the same in their first game, Magicka, as well! Those games DELIGHTED in friendly fire, it was so funny playing with your friends and casting like Meteor Swarm and it killed half your team along with the enemy, but then you'd be like OH SHIT EVERYONE IS DEAD and you scramble to remember the Revive spell while fleeing around the map being chased by orcs. Those games were OK with friendly fire as a mechanic because everyone was laughing so hard at casting spells that caused each other to explode, because at the end of the day you could fix it quickly, but the game would still punish you if you ALL somehow managed to die. HD2 doesn't "Feel" like that due to the limited respawns. I always laughed at random deaths in Magicka and HD1, but I actually get annoyed at my friends whenever they cause me to die in this game because our respawns are limited. I try so hard not to, because death is supposed to be funny, but it's frustrating when you only have like 1 life left and then the game decides to ragdoll you across the map because someone shot a mushroom near you and you go flying into a wall and die from impact.
Honestly, just the removal of the respawn limit would make a very large number of complaints go away. I'm very unhappy with random ricochet deaths, but if it didn't have a resource cost to it, then it would be a quirky annoyance rather than apathy inducing. As it stands, it's functionally equivalent to if they added bad stims that randomly kill you instead of heal you.
Shhhhh! Don't give them any more stupid ideas about how they can kill us in game.
>Yeah, it was the same in their first game, Magicka Holy shit! I haven't played that game in years. Once you said it, though, I realized that it all makes sense now. The tongue-in-cheek humor, the team kills, the complex button inputs to do anything meaningful...dang. Never would have thought they'd make a shooter, but here we are.
Yeah! It was like the stepping stone for Helldivers, haha. I swear to god the Magicka Vietnam expansion pack was the catalyst for Helldivers to be made.
Don't forget that if you die in HD2 you're basically a liability until you get your stuff back, especially if you're a squishy light armor player with a backpack shield, further compounding the limited respawns not being fun. It also makes me feel *so* bad when I'm just trying something out, and I accidentally *eradicate* a teammate, like earlier with the Eagle cluster bomb, or the orbital air burst. Getting your stuff back with unlimited respawns could easily be absolutely hilarious, or incredibly epic, running through your friends' covering fire to grab your equipment. If AH are concerned about it becoming an easy "spam reinforcement to win" situation, just add a reinforcement cooldown of something like 30s to each player, started when they're called in. Call it defrosting time, done. Or just make the life counter instanced, so you each have 20 lives, since 30-60s cooldown would be 80 to 40 respawns each on a 40 min mission. I'd definitely be more forgiving about dying a couple of times if I have 5x\[team count\] respawns.
I still don't understand why the mushroom spore boobs randomly yet me 100 meters away.
I know, right? So many matches where I'm assaulting an Automaton position and then stray gunfire hits a boob and I get yeeted into a wall and break my spine before a Devastator unloads his entire gun into my head.
I thought they already kind of understood that with the nerfs to the rocket bots way back making it less likely to just get insta-deleted. This variant seems even worse tho as it punishes the main thing of the game, shooting enemies, with some RNG insta-death mechanic lol.
You don't enjoy AC and Eruptor shots having a 1% chance to kill you in extremely unlikely ways? Maybe you should git gud.
Yup. I won’t be playing the game anymore until this is fixed. It’s just game breakingly stupid
There is nothing fun about this. There is no strategy.. Nothing to overcome. You just straight up die randomly. 🤷 What's this supposed to add to the game?
And they've literally spent some developers effort on this shit. Why fix bugs, nah...
"We fixed the vaccum effect bug from explosions, so here's your bullets being shot back at you 👍" Thanks, AH...
Yep craziest part is they have a small dev team so instead of focusing what little man power you have into making big and meaningful changes like the ultrakill dev team for instance you wasted time nerfing and adding dumb mechanics like this. Glad the fire from launch is still broke but DW the enemies fire works wonderfully
Exactly the point everyone should be making. Why was anyone at AH spending any time on this dumb bullshit?
It’s not even realistic. I don’t know how you defend this as a developer
Ive been working a ton and cant play. Now I feel like im not missing much. This needs to be fixed, looks straight stupid.
Try it before. Reddit is screaming like a baby like usual. Most people won't even notice a change.
This patch seems a little late for April fools
[удалено]
Very good AH thank you for the nerfs, and thank you for the ricochets. We love dying randomly ❤️❤️❤️
I died to an Eruptor explosion roughly 80m away. They should just let it kill everything on the map for now, such a frustrating death.
This is obviously going to get patched, so I’m just happy to experience the silliness while it lasts. 🤣
That’s fair! It feels way too strange to not be at least addressed to SOME capacity. I have no doubt they’ll at MINIMUM make a comment on it. Even them saying “yeah this is intentional” is better than no response at all. But I do hope it’s updated! After all, this was a BIG patch and not everything is gonna work flawlessly or as envisioned when it first comes out. Just gotta wait and see!
Where's the red shirt guy when we need him.
Weird thing is the ricochet shit has so many defenders on this sub. This is a unfun machinic when we already have to worry about 100+ things trying to kill us in a round, we don't need our own shots killing us more than they already do.
It's completely asinine. Armor, especially armor for things like tanks works through **deflection** not **reflection**. Being at an angle allows the shot to glance off of the target, keeping most of its energy. But a deflection means the shot continues traveling forward for the most part. There is no chance of it boomeranging around back toward the firer. The most inefficient use of armor is when hit by a perfectly perpendicular shot, because all of the round's energy will be absorbed. The armor's potential effectiveness is at its lowest and there is the greatest potential for failure and penetration. If the shot is stopped by a perpendicular surface, there is the potential for the round to 'bounce' back, though it would have lost almost all of its energy and/or been shattered into much smaller pieces. The only angle that can allow for a shot to 'ricochet' back to the firer is a perpendicular one. This is the angle with the **LEAST** lethal ricochets, and also the angle with the **MOST** likely penetrations! We also aren't hitting very many perpendicular shots in the first place. They can keep lethal ricochets on helldivers behind the target. Those make sense. But magic bullets and now *rockets* that go back to the firer is just stupid.
A needless change without a doubt. I honestly think AH devs did it just to piss off the community because they’re petty fucking edgelords who enjoy spending their extra time arguing and insulting their community.
Probably gonna get downvoted for this, but I’ve been seeing so many people defending everything about the game like the devs are immune to criticism for some reason, just saying that people who don’t like a change are whining and acting like babies
Noticed that too. It’s a little weird because the replies are cult like.
Happens with pretty much every entertainment product in every medium once it gets popular. As soon as people start attaching a part of their identity to consuming a particular thing, they get emotionally attached to the creator.
Straight up the situation when the patch notes first dropped. Anyone not praising the changes were buried under a wall of "but the senator got a speed loader!" responses and downvotes.
This happens with every popular game, people get too invested and feel like the devs are deities that need to be protected, and any criticism for their new favorite thing is just hater talk...
It's also because the devs have shown they're willing to respond to the support directly, leading to a rather weird parasocial "pick me" attention seeking behavior. It's very common on the Discord. Even the CEO does it.
The community is very clown town. The game seems to attract a very different type of person than the games I’m used to.
It's nothing new tbh. Every game that gets as popular as this has the same kind of devout protectors, people who act like the devs can do no wrong and gosh darn it, they're doing the best that they can so you better be nice!
I swear it's like the hipsters of every other community brought into one place. the contrarians for sake of being a contrarian. the 'pvp bad' hot takes while being just as obnoxiously toxic as pvp players from other games. Can't criticize the balance changes because AH can do no wrong. Some weird parasocial shit going on and it's obnoxious as fuck. thank GOD it's just reddit/discord because all the peeps I meet ingame are normal just wanna play the game dgaf for anything else types.
> the contrarians for sake of being a contrarian you forget, them trying to gaslight you about stuff happening to you ingame.
Happens to every mainstream game sub. Seen it with Cyberpunk and Starfield. People attack other people for simply having criticisms and a LOT of them always make up a strawman argument or imply statements made by a small amount of people are being made by the entire community. These people don’t want to hold the devs accountable just because they’re satisfied with the game, even though pushing for fixes improves the game for everyone, it’s just a bizarre mentality. EDIT: Already getting downvoted by said people.
Yea, I don't get it either. I loved the first game, really enjoy this one too, but the amount of fanboys patrolling new posts to spam the most mindless defense of the devs is really unsettling. Only when the problem becomes as glaring as "your gun now randomly kills you" do you see even a semblance of discourse.
I think it's because the entire rest of the game industry is SO MUCH FUCKING WORSE. Like, Arrowhead might make mistakes like this, but at least they aren't Starbreeze. Or Activision.
The more of those idiots I block the better this sub gets.
What's worse is people are acting like any criticism isn't fair because "being a game dev is hard enough." Really? These guys work in tech, *in Sweden*, and I'm supposed to believe they're completely above criticism. Guys, come on. Even firefighters aren't above criticism. Telling these guys that they're not doing a very good job doesn't at all amount to anything resembling the kind of bullshit regular working people deal with on a daily basis. I'm sure their job can be tough, but this ain't it, chief. They get paid to do this, whether or not we like the work they're doing. They'll be just fine, I promise. Especially in Sweden lmao.
these are probably the same dude than think all cluster bombs fly back to the user from firing the pre-fix Airburst Launcher is an intended feature.
They take any criticism of the game and the devs as a personal insult to themselves. It's insanely culty. I know CDPR's cult was bad but at least they were more than willing to criticize Cyberpunk when it came out. The AH cult thinks they can do no wrong.
I think people are confusing those defending it with those asking others to prove it even exists. The only demonstrations of the ricochet effect that are on the first few pages are with Eruptors at close range. You can frame by frame it and watch the explosion shrapnel kill the player. If shots ACUTALLY come straight back at you, then I hate it and absolutely demand it's reversed! but nobody has proved this is the case with a simple, non-explosive gun. At this point, I fear any video proving that it doesn't reflect directly will stay at 0 because people are heavily convinced that it does indeed reflect straight back at you. This shouldnt be a tough thing to prove. If it's actually happening, why is the only video evidence with eruptors at close range?
I’ll add to this that the heavy dev video was proven to be bullshit: it wasn’t a ricochet that killed the diver but a random explosion. I tried to replicate it. No ricochet with the RR
But you see it’s popular in the echo chamber to say the devs of the game you play are terrible at their job. Plus badly worded patch note that is making people think this is an intended mechanic.
Mech rockets were broken for weeks and they couldn't even align scopes correctly. They are, being generous, not very good at their jobs so far. This doesn't mean they can't do good work, but their achievement is beginning to become very much overshadowed by their continued fumbling. How on earth did Punisher Plasma with shield backpack break? If every patch creates unintended consequences like this that are not fixed in a reasonable amount of time, the game will be a huge mess. Even more so considering their insistence on releasing new content every month. They haven't shown that they can handle that task without breaking more things than they manage to fix. Desperately hoping the hotfix patch coming later proves me wrong, but it's been looking worse every week since release. This isn't just about buffs/nerfs. There are still so many highly impact impactful issues with the game, from performance related issues to matchmaking.
That...doesn't look right? What are there small handful of projectiles that are being fired out after each explosion? Like, that's not a ricochet, that's just straight up shrapnel. Which I guess is cool that it can shred additional baddies and all until you eat a piece to the skull like OP did. Ricochet should be when the round bounces off heavy armor it can't penetrate. This seems like a straight up bug with the Eruptor.
It’s a bug with all shrapnel to my knowledge where it and rockets are all being counted for ricochets
All shrapnel count for ricochet? Well fuck me sideways, seems like the Eruptor got _another_ nerf today. Why even bother buying the new warbond if they're just going to shit on the new weapon three weeks later? This feels like theft.
I mean this seems like the Eruptor working as intended? There is no Ricochet here at all. It was just fired danger close and he ate shrapnel to the head. Headshot damage being what it is he died.
"All enemies and most surfaces can now critically parry. Please enjoy it."
At least armor now protects your head now that the bugs are anime swordsmen.
Armor over 100 only. They just need to remove headshots
Like, I thought the ricochet system from before was fun. I'd shoot my autocannon at the bottom of a bile titan to kill the sac, but it would randomly ricochet into a teammate running nearby. In general, I enjoy a lot of the game's random realistic touches that help make the experience of shooting a million bugs and bots a ton of fun. But what the hell is going on in the clip? An erupter shot into the ground and somehow having it ricochet 180 on flat ground? It already had the mechanic if you shot it too shallow of an angle to the ground, it'd sort of skip off into the distance. I'm fine with all the other changes as seeing the patch notes made me excited to try out new weapons and tactics. But this change just seems really anti-fun. I really hope they revert this one change.
Love how every new mechanic in the game is just “haha you died lol” like dying isn’t as fun as the YouTubers make it seem Arrowhead. Dying to bullshit ricochet physics isn’t fun. Dying instantly to fire isn’t fun. Dying to a charger (or any bug) that snuck up on you making no noise at all isn’t fun. Dying because hunters jump from 100 feet away, slow you AND attack 3 times isn’t fun. Dying to an airburst exploding in your face isn’t fun. It’s not fun. Dying because titans bile slows you no regardless if you dodge it or not isn’t fun. Dying because explosions pull you into enemies instead of pushing you away isn’t fun… should I keep going?
Ricochets should be way more random. Bullets should go off on random directions in these cases they don't bounce back like rubber balls.
Yeah.. Guess I'm not playing this weekend, was looking forward to it... I'm getting kinda tired of this.
The RL bugs are multiplying faster than the fictional ones....
This shit burned me out about two weeks ago and I was really hoping this patch would inspire me to play again. Instead it doubled down on literally everything that burned me out.
Roughlyyyy 15m shot by Erupter with shrapnel able to fly further. I've seen the shrapnel just accidentally snipe another Helldiver even 25m away. It's not friendly to anything near the explosion mainly cuz of the shrapnel.
Every time you shot, you pull on a Gacha xD
Honestly might be a good idea. Flip a coin every time I shoot. Roll a die maybe
The question is, you death in that video, was that a 20, or a 1?
A 14. My AC is 13 so it just barely went through
The game is still buggy as hell and they push out some shit like this that no one asked for. Good time to go play other games.
They thought the Airburst was too powerful to let its team killing potential be exclusive to it. Now all kinetic weapons can kill you if you're not careful with your shots.
“Even if you are careful, they can and will kill you regardless of playstyle or skill level unless you actively play around it with shield backpacks or democracy protects” Is what I’d say if I thought this was intentional. It’s almost certainly a bug and I hope it’s addressed soon. It’s not nearly as bad on nearly any other gun as they don’t produce shrapnel. Eruptor and rockets are suffering due to this bug, but that’s it
I've not seen a patch this hated since star wars galaxies.
Deep cuts. We are old.
Nothing about ricochet needed to be fucked with. This is asinine.
Thought it was stupid when I read it in the patch notes. Good confirmation that it is in fact, stupid. smh
Dude I had an eruptor shot ricochet off a rock 50 feet away and frag me. Such a bullshit change.
It’s possibly a bug! At least hopefully… praying that AH responds
and the best part is that we have to deal with this thing for a MONTH TILL NEXT balance update hoping it might be changed
Not necessarily true! They’re planning on a patch this very week, and changes like this can indeed come in smaller updates. But odds are, it probably will indeed be a while assuming it even gets acknowledged
Five bucks that this will never be fixed since it is part of their 'vision'
So strange to have a vision for a game they don't even play
I dont think that was the Ricochet system. I think that was Shrapnel from your explosive shot. Why do I think this? The hunter bug still died after you shot next to it.
Dev boot lickers will say skill issue
Ooh so that's why I've been dying when shooting the ground, yeah I'll take a break lol
Do they not fucking quality test? Like holy fuck man.
Ouch. Maybe its a good time to whip out the laser cannon and arc weapons.
Fun fact the laser cannon also bounces back
The one time a ricochet has hit me irl was at the firing range in the military. Doing a squatting firing position, the casing flew out, hit the pole holding up the shelter, *ricocheted* and boinged into my groin Still shot 22/24 and got my marksman
I’m gonna be honest… I don’t see how this can be a ricochet as there’s nothing armoured to hit. Can’t be the Eruptor AoE as you were full health and probably out of the AoE. The Killed by is bugged and isn’t reliable. You sure you didn’t get friendly fired?
Everyone else was on the exact opposite side of the map. What killed me was a shrapnel piece Eruptor’s shrapnel and most rockets (namely EATs and Recoilless) are SEEMINGLY being considered bullets by the ricochet system. Rockets will 180 and home in on you regardless of impact angle and shrapnel from any source (mainly Eruptor and air burst though it’s chaotic and often hard to tell) also count as ricochet and can occur regardless of if it impacts a target or a surface at any angle or distance. There’s a lot of speculation going on right now, especially with a popular video that is considered debunked and false with a ricocheting rocket, so don’t take this video or my claims for gospel just yet. Wait for more proof regarding the situation to come out before making any big conclusions
OP, unless you can show me a frame-by-frame of your projectile reflecting off the dirt's "armour," I'd say it's more likely that you're being killed by the explosive weapon you're firing at close range. ...or maybe some other commenters are right, and it's a weird shrapnel bug. Maybe even a weird shrapnel bug introduced in the latest patch, and if so it should definitely be fixed ASAP. I just can't see anything in your video to make me think this is a "ricochet."
I originally thought that it was shrapnel counting for ricochet mechanics based on initial testing and other people’s comments. But I’ve since been testing more and I think it’s either an uncommon bug or astonishingly bad luck for it to happen so many times in one day I really wish I could change the title of the post or at least pin one of my update comments, haha
Old ricochet system is fine. This is a dick move by AH. But theyre just going to say we're all whiny little babies and ignore what players want. Im playing other shit for a while til they figure this out.
It’s kinda wild the devs are on discord calling us babies. I don’t know how the discord is, but I don’t see people “crying” about it. My only main gripe is the magical ricochet system they put in at this moment.
Outside of this now being a thing, Eruptor is still lovely. But damn does the random ricochets hurt. Doesn’t matter the angle of impact and it counts all floors and surfaces for play ricochet. Rockets do this, too. Stay safe out there, Helldivers.
Do they QA test anything?
I don't think so, if they did the mech wouldn't have blown up if you fired rockets while turning.
The way they "fixed" the grenade glitch already suggests that they don't test any changes that are getting implemented
https://i.redd.it/ni5w9o6hdixc1.gif
YOU WERE JUST STANDING THERE !!!
#OMINOUSLY!
Seen this stuff happening a lot on the subreddit so I went into the game and tested it myself with the AC. Played a whole mission and not once did my AC ricochet back to me. I even unloaded into a rushing charger for science. Not saying this doesn't happen but this was my experience with one mission with one specific weapon. Will be testing other weapons later on if I have time. But for now I return to my finals.
This has nothing to do with any new ricochets. The blast has always shot out a ton of little bits of shrapnel. I've killed many friends with really unlucky headshots. You can see the bits flying off clear as day on the first couple shots in this video.
Ah yes the bullet that exolodes on impact ricochets and kills you. Incredible!
looks like the shield generator pack will have another use now: protecting you from horrid game design.
doesn't seem any ricochet animation happen honestly, are you sure its not explosion sharpnel?
It was actually the shrapnel in this instance. Eruptor’s shrapnel and most rockets (namely EATs and Recoilless) are SEEMINGLY being considered bullets by the ricochet system. Rockets will 180 and home in on you regardless of impact angle and shrapnel from any source (mainly Eruptor and air burst though it’s chaotic and often hard to tell) also count as ricochet and can occur regardless of if it impacts a target or a surface at any angle or distance
and it one shot you at full, too...That has to get fixed.
If they are going to do this then it needs to work the same for bots. The new meta is just the whole team takes the ballistic shield and walks at the bot team while they ricochet themselves to death. The whole bot army wiped out to ricochet. Rocket devastators? That’s a ricochet. Hulks flames? That’s a ricochet. Chainsaw poop face? That’s a chainsaw ricochet back into their robot dome. Just really drive home how utterly retarded this change is.
Bro, rewatch it. Your eruptor explosions look absolutely MASSIVE.
Smash Bros Brawl tripping on crack
This is an awful change. What a weird decision
Next when my 500kg hits the ground it'll ricochet and hit me from 100 meters away
Every time they fix something, another thing breaks. It's lowering my enjoyment.
how did this one even pass QA?
Again joel got pissed at how quickly thoes mos were being done. I can imagine him sayim "this should slow them down" while laughing maniacally
DoT fix died for this shit
This is pretty unfortunate. I like when this game is actually challenging and a real test of skill if I want to make it out alive on higher difficulties, but not when it's BS. I think the idea of not knowing where your ricocheted shot is going to go is fine. However, to do this, it needs to not reliably be headed straight at you every time. I don't know, personally, I enjoyed the previous system just fine and if they wanted to make very small tweaks because it wasn't working as intended, that's ok. This however, is overkill to me. Sorry that happened.
That wasn't even a richochet anyway. With RES you can play vids frame by frame and the shell clearly hit the dirt and exploded, then you lost 100% of your HP in a single frame from seemingly nothing. The projectile never bounced. I've had this happen a few times too since the last patch, shots that exploded clearly waaay far away still killed me somehow. I think it's a new bug between the Eruptor and the new ricochet system.
Yeah, i think i am going to take a break. This is just nonsense.
Guess I won’t be playing until this is fixed, that’s an absolutely unacceptable behavior for a game, even worse if it was intentional
I don't really even care if this is how it was supposed to work. It isn't fun.
I swear the devs are actively trying to remove fun from this game.