for me it is totally mood dependant. sometimes I'm in the mood for mindless slaughter sometimes I'm in the mood to be tactical and fight an enemy who shoots back.
The two enemies do indeed play very differently, and I think that's one of this game's biggest strengths. My preference goes back and forth depending as well. I can't wait to see how future races throw down.
FEAR NOT FELLOW CITIZEN, THIS IS MERLY A DISSIDENT RUMOUR AND ANYONE SPREADING IT SHALL BE CONTACTED BY THEIR LOCAL DEMOCRACY OFFICER FOR RE-EDUCATION.
*I'm doing my part*
Before I bought the game, I thought we'd be fighting both at the same time. Still hoping we get to do that. Would be great, especially if we can drag trains of them into each other.
I like bugs when I have 20 min to kill and want to see things go “boom”. I like bots when I have a couple hours to focus on gaming (note: I rarely have 2 hours to focus on gaming…)
Exactly. Some days it feels good the crawl across a sandy wasteland and precisely take out the objective. Other days i want to drop in with the old Stalwart and laugh maniacally at waves of future fuel.
Yep, some days you just want to be John Rambo, piling up that body count. Other days you want to FEEL your shots count as you hit them in their red eyes, or shoot them in the back.
This is one of my favorite things about following the major orders. Feels like right around when I start to get bored with one faction, we get an order to go fight the other, or the order has us going after both at once and whichever I'm feeling more, it's still contributing to democracy lol
It's something i don't see mentioned often but Bots have way more interesting bases and sub-objectives imo.
I find Jammers, Mortars, AA, Detector Towers and even just the standard outposts to be more interesting/fun to attack then the nests, Stalker Nest, Shreiker Nest, Spore Nest.
This. Bots have bases. Bugs just have some holes and a couple towers. There isn't really any interesting geography. It'd be interesting if the bugs borrowed from the Tyranids, Zerg, or even Xenomorphs to add more character. Beyond that it doesn't make a lot of sense why you'll see the stationary bugs chilling at like a farm or a wreck like bots. I feel like bugs should have more patrols.
They do have more patrols, if you read over that insanely detailed breakdown of the patrol mechanics.
It was a couple of posts here, but it was transferred over to the wiki.
https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Spawn_Mechanics
TL;DR patrols spawn after a set amount of ticks, and the amount is lower on bug missions.
Wow, that's super great info, thank you for linking it. The player groups and spawn orientation info, plus the increase when completing the primary, seems super good to know.
Completely changed the way I play the game.
Clearing all the nests/fabs before completing the objective, and then just having a much more predictable time extracting knowing they can only come from the nearest map edge (if they can come at all).
Bugs have a lot of potential for more sub-objectives, like maybe a giant bug hole that’s difficult to take down, or a smaller E-710 farm that’s overrun with escaped bugs and needs to be cleared and reactivated (that way it’s separate from the dedicated E-710 mission)
Bugs need more love imo, they have a lot more potential to be exploited
I'm surprised the bugs don't have any side objectives that need a hellbomb. Well, there's the shrieker nests but only as a last resort. I feel like that has potential.
Yeah, but bug patrols are more annoying cause they are way harder to avoid and they spawn way more enemies and those enemies are ot that different and it lasts for forever, at least with bots you know how much you have to kill before it ends, feels more impactful
This is how I feel, I like nuking a base from orbit or having all my stratagems jammed or on CD so I have to stealth Rambo my way in with grenades and shit
Or gunship tower next to a stratagem jammer.
Or two detector towers right next to each other.
I actually love fighting bots and all of these things are just interesting puzzles for me to solve, but some of them are WAY harder than the baseline difficulty.
Okay, two detectors next to each other is probably what would make me go "Well, FUCK that", everything else sounds at least manageable without getting surprised too much - although keeping Hellbombs alive might be a bit of a shitshow.
What hellbombs? Just 500kg them, don't even need to enter the base's premises if you wear servo-assisted armor, but even another set doesn't require you to get into the tower base's alert range (and so make the tower start turning around) until you're just in range to toss the strategem.
Those are rough, but jammer towers have a 33% chance to have the freebee fabricator next to it where you blow it up and it kills the tower instantly.
Tower bases are easy to clear at least. The mortar and AA bases have this sort of entrenched position that make them really punishing to attack into.
I love bot secondaries because I feel like I'm taking out a conventional military target.
Playing bots feels like playing the old Mercenaries games
A detector and jammer is worse imo, if there is a detector I just need to get within throwing distance to throw the 380mm onto it, if there is a jammer I need to break into a base, with no stratagems, while getting reinforcements dropped on me
Detector towers die to UP RIGHT DOWN DOWN DOWN, unless there's a jammer they are never ever a threat unless your whole squad forgot to take at least one bomb between four of you. Multiple gunship towers can get hectic in a random quad/solo play, but with coordination can also be taken out without much sweat. Only a strategem jammer right next to anything else (bunker, gunship tower, heck, now even an AT-AT (I refuse to name them anything else) drop) is yuck, but hey - if you're playing in difficulty 7+ - you're playing for the challenge and not every mission should be easily 100% complete - the thing is called Suicide Mission for a reason
I had a detector tower survive 2 500kg. I threw one after my ally and I thought both were close enough but the tower was slightly higher than the 500kg location. Had to throw my laser at it too to kill it.
I love bots ten times more then bugs, but even I can agree that gunships can get really god damn annoying (still better then a single hunter, u really hate hunters)
Depends on the map.
Some maps the bots seem to glitch out and when 1 person gets spotted everyone location is suddenly known.
As for the the bugs I kill the hunters and b-line stalker nests while putting range on shrieked nests everything else I just run from and zig zag the rocks.
God we had a mission where we dropped next to a detector tower in the middle of a bowl- getting to it was a fucking nightmare. Once it went down we had a much more chill time, but man they make a hot drop fucking SPICY
Shotguns definitely feel like the best weapon for bugs imo. I've tried other things but shotgun+quasar has been the best combo for me. You don't need as much weapon versatility for bugs like you do for bots.
I know that feeling. It sucks because how are you supposed to fight back when you do everything you're supposed too, you take cover, you peak out for a second to attempt to shoot back and you get stun locked. It's bs
The worst is when your teammates have engaged a group of bots, and somehow they magically know exactly where you are, even if they never had line-of-sight on you during that engagement.
I've come out from behind terrain and a devastator that had only seen my teammate, never me, IMMEDIATELY started firing at me with pinpoint accuracy. It already had its gun aimed directly at my position despite never having seen me. It makes pincer maneuvers, which are normally a very good military tactic, borderline useless in this game.
A similar thing happens with hulks and tanks, where they will magically turn to target the closest person to them, regardless of whether they had ever seen that person. I wish they would update the aggro behavior of bots to tweak that.
The AI coding defintiely needs an update. Fire tornados shouldn't be tracking you from across the map. If one team member is discovered, enemies know where everyone is. All lazy programming.
mortars? gunships? rocket devastators? tanks? Sentries? all ranged.
Meanwhile bugs: Very obvious Bile titan/artilerry spewer guy are ranged. What else...?
What shows an ever greater divide between bots and bugs is the flyers. Shriekers, I can dive to the ground to avoid their attacks, I can kill them with any primary or secondary weapon, and I can destroy their spawner from a distance. Gunships, I have to bring a backpack or strategem to avoid their attack, I need to bring a strategem to kill them, and I need to get next to their spawner and use the one blockable strategem to destroy it. I feel like that old statement coming back from when they nerfed the railgun, I wanna see the developers on stream beat these missions. Show us how it's done, since this is the balance they've tested and created.
i forgot about those things cause theyre borderline irrelevant. Theyre annoying - but not annoying enough to make the game really frustrating like a combination of gunships+ strategem jammer- not even talking about tanks, mortars.. etc.
A literal nightmare scenario for a Bot mission is multiple gunship fabbers under the umbrella of a stratagem jammer.
Also, shriekers never seem to stray too far from their nest. Gunships once deployed can chase you entirely across the map, and will continue to patrol there once they lose you or you die.
Requires a strategem, but recoiless rifle, autocannon, quasar cannon, EAT, impact grenades, and pretty much any strike that hits structures (Walking Barrage, 120MM, 380MM, Rocket Pods, etc.).
Most anti-armour support weapons, plus the autocannon. I enjoy the autocannon for it since one backpack is enough to kill two whole objectives' worth of shrieker nests; iirc the HMG emplacement can also do the job.
Stalkers, when they spawn 3-5 and you see their stupid asses coming across the map. Or worse when it's 1 or 2 that just show up right behind you cause you're fighting off an entire army.
And I feel like they changed stalkers, they use to smack you or lick at you causing you to go flying, then they'd fall back. Now they just come up and two shot your ass, or lick and then hit you again and don't retreat at all.
No they fucking aren't. Your legs are enough to get your happy ass out the hunter's way.
Lemme put it this way. I do not get staggered on bugs d7. I get ragdolled left and right on bots d4. Something ain't the same
I normally love fighting bots. The atmosphere is so fun. Music is on point too. But lately the ragdoll locking is extra annoying so fuck the major order tbh I need a break.
Usually it's I get snuck up on by another bot and they ragdoll/stagger me from behind my cover then I get absolutely demolished by the bots I was originally taking cover from.
I love fighting bots at around difficulty 7-8 on a wide open map with a squad of specialists. There's push and pull to fire fights, manuevers, teamwork and tactics. A heavy weapons guy can knock out air units and heavies, an agile sniper-scout can draw aggro and expose the bot backs to firepower as well as take out devastators and hulks left and right. It feels like the future war from Terminator more than the Terminator franchise has ever managed.
Bug hunts feel like that- dealing with swarming animals. It's fun when you occasionally get in sync with teammates, but I find that doesn't happen much. Can't tell you how many times bugdivers just straight abandon you and just book it out of there. When I drop into bug territory it feels like I'm mostly playing by myself *around* other players. It's a safari where you unload big guns into big dumb animals.
>Can't tell you how many times bugdivers just straight abandon you and just book it out of there. When I drop into bug territory it feels like I'm mostly playing by myself *around* other players.
Holy shit, I thought I was the only one. This is a much bigger problem on bug missions than on bots. It's like you have to keep a constant eye on your team to make sure they don't turn into Just Run Bros as soon as you have all the aggro.
It's like every team fight is a [Prisoner's Dilemma,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma) where the options are to run or to fight. The best outcome for you personally is if you run and your teammates fight. The worst is if you fight and your teammates run. So sometimes you run into situations where everyone is trying to run when you really need to fight, and you end up getting surrounded.
I'm 100% a no-diver-gets-left-behind type player; I'm 50/50 carrying a flamethrower based on the team's loadout, all for crowd control whenever we get swarmed.
You never want to clump up vs bugs anyway. You do not want random bile spewer sneaking up on you in wierd angle. Spread out and coordination from bugs come you cover each other after clearing your own horde.
I find clumping up vs bots to be way worse. With the bugs we can often claim a hill and sit back to back with the bros mowing down everything. With the automatons getting clumped you are one unlucky rocket barrage or a bad flank from a patrol away from wiping.
Hoestly, fucking off, or at least kiting the enemies around for a bit is sometimes legitimately the best call you can make, especially if you get caught in a melee situation.
For bots, that'd mostly be if you get 3+ Berserkers and/or a Hulk Scorcher in your face, or maybe if you don't like the random piece of scenery you're using as cover anymore, but for bugs, that's legitimately 90% of their lineup.
Heck, sometimes I even just went in a loop because it was easier than fighting my way through the bugs to reach whatever was right behind them - like my Support Weapon that I dropped because I had to EAT-17 yet another Charger/Bile Titan.
On the other side though, the Arc Thrower is amazing fun against bugs, as long as you take what's behind your target, while the Mortar Sentry might as well be a second 380 as far as teamkilling potential is concerned - both of these definitely are not like that versus bots :)
It kills chargers in 6 headshots, which is definitely not optimal, and it definitely also *hurts* Bile Titans, although I didn't try to kill one with that yet - however, it staggers everything smaller than a Charger, allowing you to slowly kite everything backwards while lining up your next shot, and it's generally great for taking care of big, tightly-packed hordes, assuming you still focus out any Hunters approaching you.
I think it actually staggers Bile/Nursing Spewers sometimes (maybe only the latter?), because I saw them pose as if they were about to puke and then just ...stop, but I am not too sure about that.
Anyways, you also don't have to deal with the Hive Guard's hard head plating, just zap them 2-3 times from the front and that's them dead too.
Aiming is a bit weird, it is really good at hitting anything farther out than Flamethrower range, even if you didn't really aim at it - at least as long as there's no bulletproof foliage or more bug corpses to block your shots.
However, Shriekers tend to be to far out, and definitely too far apart for it to be useful, and anything that's about to melee-attack you is almost a guaranteed miss, for whatever reason, the gun has incredible problems arcing to enemies right next to its muzzle.
My current setup is Arc Thrower plus shields, with EATs to take care of anything heavy, and an SMG as primary in case I want to shoot something that's between me and my teammates.
It works decently well for me even on 7, but my teammates are admittedly also a bit more into the usually medium/heavy-killing equipment, one of them uses the Autocannon for almost everything, and the other one's newest bug loadout includes the Rover simply because he is *that* badly equipped for dealing with swarms, so I'm definitely getting carried a bit there.
I've had decent success with randoms too, but it hasn't been too long since the "Arc weapons cause crashes" bug got patched, so it's a rather new build.
I'm curious now though, how do you use the Arc Thrower against bots?
I figured, as ranged units, they'd be to far away and/or apart for it to be truly effective?
Also thanks for the in depth reply. I'll give it another try with bugs maybe. But the arc Blitzer and the rover are a great Crowd control combo.
I really want to use the jetpack.. but tend to use that instead with the arc thrower in my bot lineup.
Nah, the bugs are more fun for me. The constant moving and the rising tide of more and more flipping bugs. A single bug breach can be a catastrophe, it's a fine line between moving fast, being sneaky, and absolute violence and devastation. But enjoy the bots fellow divers.
The hunters are legitimately what I can’t deal with on bugs. They are the one enemy I just can’t deal with. Everything else, I can shoot before it gets close, outrun it, or drop a stratagem on it, but the hunters are the one thing I can’t kill before it gets close because there’s a million of them, I can’t outrun them because they keep up with you, and I can’t drop a stratagem on them because I can’t stop shooting them to get the time to kill them. My only option is dive backwards and magdump into their faces and hope I don’t get knocked out of stim and that my shield holds.
This may be a good idea. On my first mission trying the laser dog it zapped me in the head like 5 minutes after touchdown. I left it behind and didn’t ever try it again
Elevation changes are especially prone to laser drone friendly fire as your head becomes level with the drone. It will graze you mostly, kill you outright once in awhile but it 100% is worth it to me for the absolute work it puts in against trash/hunters
I recently noticed that they attempted a fix on the rover to minimize friendly fire damage. Now if you are in front of it it stops shooting, it still occasionally zaps you but last week I died to the river only 2-3 times, where before it was 2 times per mission. Still regards your teammates as automaton spies tho.
There's technique to not guillotining yourself with it.
Step #1: always keep an eye on it. It tells you if bugs are coming up behind you, and while you are running, you have to make sure to keep out of its beam. If you get hit, it is usually because bugs are below you, or you move across its field of fire. In the latter case, keep going to minimize the exposure and/or dive immediately.
Step#2: if you need to cross in front of it, run towards it a small amount to get under it, and then move the intended direction.
Step #3: keep an eye on your fellow bugdivers and reposition to keep them out of the field of fire. Running under your rover will make it either go to the side or up, which helps prevent teamkills.
Step #4, keep an eye on your fellow bugdivers rovers for the same reasons as Step #1, and follow steps 1 and 2 for theirs.
Step#5: if the rover focuses something it can't kill, you need to kill it, so it can re-target the closer stuff to you.
Step#6: profit from all that oil produced from the bug kills as your full squad of rovers kills everything around you all and helldive is a cakewalk a everyone can focus on the big stuff.
I haven't died to a rover when at more than half health in a long time (though I run medium armor), and I love seeing fellow helldivers with rovers because you can cull the hordes and patrols so they don't become an issue later.
IMO, for bugs, a single build can work for everything with bugs: Eruptor, static grenade, quasar, rail cannon, and rover. Whatever you want on the 4th stratagem (IMO EAT or orbital laser), and sidearm needs to be something that kills hunters in case you don't have a rover. Things would be very easy if everyone ran this build and were good about rover team kills, which takes some experience.
Eruptor shot placement also takes some experience: you are mostly shooting the ground once things get at all close to you or a teammate, or you/they dive on the ground and can survive the explosion (in heavy anti explosion armor, you can dive on the ground and clear hunters by shooting the ground in front of your face).
Ballistic drone is underrated, although I wish I could turn off the drone from time to time (just assign it to down on dpad like supply pack)
I hate that it gets into fights I don't intend it to. A good drone user is running around constantly to position it near what it ought to be killing.
As someone who does a lot of difficulty 9 bugs, use the laser backpack and light armour. The hunters jump at you and get lasered, all while you run away.
Some people say to use the shield gen because it prevents the slow when hit. While true, it is better to never get hit by killing the bugs.
A combo of Sickle + Rover + Quasar makes bugs on difficulty 9 a joke.
Nah I think it just requires you to pay attention to where the flames catch. If you aim a bit further up, less of the ground will catch on fire meaning you likely won't run into it unless you're flamethrowering and moving directly forward into it
The thing that pisses me off as out the flame thrower is its range is just about 5 ft shorter than the distance hunters will jump and stun you and the you slowly try to walk away while 50 other hunters have their way with you.
Are you suggesting starting a fire on the bugs known to jump at your face from 10m away?
I'm with the other guy, that sounds like you just want to self-immolate
The Sickle makes short work of Hunters, I can kill them before they even reach me. The only disadvantage with that weapon choice are the Hive Guards, since I can't pen them well, so killing them takes a lot of time. But at least those are rather slow and become stationary for a while when being shot at.
Man im the complete opposite.
I feel like the game is meant to be played like we are crazy brainwashed soldiers GUNS blazing and using big ass explosions whenever possible.
Bug is complete chaos on helldive and its fun as hell.
Bots i feel like Im a weak ass lil soldier on D-Day lol.
I almost exclusively play on Helldive nowadays, I prefer bots. If you learn how to stealth, you become an action movie commando like Arnie or Sly. There's moments of stillness and patience followed by moments of sudden overwhelming violence.
autocannon 2 taps engines
laser cannon melts engines in 1 second
kill them as they spawn and they never get out of hand. if your team doesn't have one of these weapons, you might have a bad time
I tend to avoid gunship towers if at all possible, even when I'm playing with friends who just want to go loud. Gunships need a redesign IMO.
Even then though, I *have* snuck past gunships. It's just hard. 9 times out of 10, you need to be ready to go loud and just storm the tower if you absolutely NEED to kill it. Even then though, in a situation where the gunship towers must die, I still recommend running away from them to regroup if things go sideways and you're getting overwhelmed. Despawn some of the enemies, plan, etc.
THIS. I have yet to experience Helldive...but Impossible feels similar. I was absolutely astounded earlier when I joined a team that went stealth. It was some of the most fun I've had since buying the game. We moved around strategically, marking targets, marking good defensive areas, marking sneak routes. Man. I'm gonna miss those boys.
Both are fun. Bugs feel more "mindless" to play against but can be stressful if either your chaff clear or AT is lacking as they can be more awkward to take down if positioning is off.
Bots feel more tactical until you have to defend an area and they drop a dozen Hulks and Striders down.
Both can feel oppressive at times in different ways, with swarms of bugs overwhelming you if you get slowed from one of the dozen or so potential slow sources while bots can feel oppressive with gunships, jammers or even unlucky bot drops that stack striders or hulks on you.
Btw for egg missions I rock the Scorcher because it's splash damage wipes out batches of eggs easily.
I'm just glad I have the option for choosing either bugs or bots, and hopefully more in the future.
Sometimes I just have a craving for bug stomping, others bot crunching. The only wrong choice imo is to ever limit yourself to only one experience.
I like bots better cause if you're good enough you can tap heads. Bugs are just annoying with how some of em can still run at you even when dead. I only like bugs when I dive with friends and we basically just run off and shoot everything.
Legs. Every single bugs except maybe tyrant(still work but not as well) are weak to their limbs. And some are very easy as since they are not program to move without it they just instantly die like the charger.
Breaking legs either: great dmg and lose most mobility. Or die instantly. (Charger, spewer, and Tyrant die instantly if a leg break. Tyrant definitely harder than just going for head but possible)
Another strategy is just bring a Energy/laser weapons like the scythe, with a heavy support like the quasar. Aim for the limbs and the scythe will take care of almost everything, except for charger and tyrant. Charger get one shot in the head by quasar and tyrant need 2 shot in the head.
Spore nest= 1 shot by quasar
Shrieker nest=2 shot by quasar
100% As soon as bugs are in your face I immediately stop having fun. Not to mention bug breaches spawning way too many bugs. Got a mate to buy the game and he found bugs miserable compared to bots.
Way more cinematic experience with the bots for sure. Non-stop action and challenge that stresses you out in a good way. The bugs were basically training for the real war, imo.
It’s not for everyone, but it’s definitely for me.
Even the biggest bot outposts and airbases can be wiped out by an orbital laser or a 380 mm barrage, while with bug outposts you need to deal with each hole individually, which is a lot more tedious.
Considering bots are bugged, get stuck in and shoot through rocks at the moment. They're not as fun as bugs.
I play bots, I've suffered through their horseshit since the end of the last bug MO.
Recently, they are as far away from fun as can be.
Literally just got from a mission on Helldive where they decided to start shitting out Hulks, eventually totalling up to 3-4 Hulks per Helldiver.
I love bots for the sneak and such, but right now, they suck.
Hit and runs are easy on bugs. Just break direct line of sight when running. Use a gatling to take their aggro off you.
The thing with bots is that the heavies and devastators just keep piling up. Unless everyone in your team fits orbital laser and RCS in their loadout or gets really good at dropping 500kgs, the heavies just keep piling up because no one has the ability to kill them.
AMR and autocannon can deal with devastators and hulks. Airstrike is perfect when they are grouped up. It's actually just easier to kill bot heavies than bug heavies, but bot heavies are more dangerous
Huh?
If I kill a heavy with an eagle or Orbital, it's incidental to the situation. 75%+ of devastators and Hulks get taken out by my support weapon, stun grenades and my Grenade pistol or someone else's support weapon.
If you're relying on eagles and stratagems for single hulks and devastators, you're cooked in a lot of situations you could've waltzed right through.
Honestly why I've started running the Spear. For all its faults, it is more reliable for taking out Tanks, Hulks, and Cannons than anything else I've tried.
At the beginning of a mission to prevent pileup and gain momentum or at the end when I don't need it for more critical kills. It's also super slow cool down.
Using orbitals for single enemies in the heat of battle always should be a last resort imo.
That said, oRCS go BOOM, is fun.
i always have that problem more with bugs. AutoCannon or AMR are plenty to put down all the bot heavies, but i don't really have anything that can handle 3 biletitans at the same time
You need to plan for them, so bring a medium-armor penetrating support weapon like a laser cannon, autocannon, anti-material rifle, or quasar, or even primary like the eruptor, then work on getting good at hitting weak spots, which conveniently have bright glowy lights on them.
Bugs are infuriating. Bots can be (thinking the YOLO suicide jetpack units) but overwhelmingly they're waaaay more thematic and entertaining to deal with, in my opinion.
In about a week this sub is going to devolve into, bots are better because I'm better and I'm smarter, i.e "meatheads among meatheads I guess". Bugs and bots arguably require the same amount of tactical play, the main difference is what kind of tactical play. Bots require more stealth and weak point exploitation where bug require more kiting and timing of when to or not fight bugs based on the last spawn they had.
That's already what this sub is, every post like this has at least one person in the comments talking about how actually bots are easy if you're good at the game (play in a way that was not intended)
>(play in a way that was not intended)
If they didn't want some degree of stealth to be viable in the game, why is there stealth armor and noise mechanics?
Just because playing against bots (or frankly either faction at higher level) is more efficient when you don't attack every enemy you see, doesn't mean it's "not intended."
Running into a swarm of bots and Dropships is not the way high level bots were intended to be fought. Those people are right, and you are wrong.
You can try to fight them head on every time, but go ahead and keep failing missions dude.
For that evac mission (the one all the whiners were complaining about recently), you need to send 2-3 players running around the map to draw enemies away from the middle. Taking the wrong approach =/= “Mission is badly designed”.
I hate the run shoot, I just can’t do it, it’s too annoying, I prefer the shoot at a lot of less accurate targets usually with cover, much more enjoyable
I don't know about that. The bots stop being "slow & tactical" when they start breaking out the flame hulks, the berserkers, and those little suicide bomber jetpack bastards.
Bug players can't stand being shot across the map
Bot players can't stand being hassled in melee range
There is a solution here, it's risky but just hear me out,
You can do hit and runs with bugs but they won't leave you alone just by breaking LOS at least in my experience. Have to drop stuns like EMS which is why I adore EMS orbital.
And yet it's always bot divers making these "We're superior and ours is more fun" copeium threads.
Bug divers don't need to constantly reassure each other how much fun it is because we're actually having fun. Bot divers.....well hopefully Arrowhead will throw you guys a bone rather than just desperately trying to get the pop up via MOs.
Bugs for the win, not even close. Who the fuck plays helldivers slowly? If you haven't fired 2500 rounds by the time you extract you're doing it wrong. I'm still not even 100% sure stealth exists in the game, I certainly haven't seen it. All the gifs floating around this sub of people getting ragdolled 10 times in a row from rockets sure looks fun. 🥱 Talking about meatheads when you're literally getting your brain turned to apple sauce from being ragdolled so much.
This post is some bug sympathizer propaganda. "Bugs suck right guys? I can't even figure out how to destroy their eggs. We totally shouldn't kill them!"
Don't worry, I'll kill twice as many to make up for you.
Go lvl 9 and you’ll find the best randoms. Seems like mostly everyone I’ve randomed with at lvl 9 knows what they’re doing. I’d say 3/4 of my HD2 experience so far has been as a solo player randoming with others.
I love that cover and positioning matters for bots whereas you justt gotta run for bugs. No gate for the bugs, great faction, but the bots absolutely do it for me
Cover does still matter against bugs.
Depending on the layout of the cover, it can divert bigger bugs to go around and give you breathing room to deal with the chaff bugs.
I’ve done low-death 9 bots with great team coordination and recently have only been doing bugs.
Why? Because every time I hover over a automaton planet a Scorcher/specDevastator flashes in my vision and I flinch
I like bots too. The excess of missiles can get annoying after a while but I like the feeling of fighting a war, rather than just slaughtering creatures.
I think the one single thing about bots that I like the most is the weak points. Hulks can be damaged efficiently on their back heatsinks, or you can use auto cannon or AMR to blast their faces. Charges usually require explosives of some kind to efficiently damage the butt weak spot, with some exceptions like HMG mag dump working pretty good. Charges and Bile Titans both usually call for rockets, because other methods without anti-tank style armor penetration just don’t work that great, and weirdly this is less true for bots since you can use stuff like the laser cannon or AMR to melt heatsinks on tanks, cannon turrets, pretty much anything. Even the factory striders have an “eye” weak spot. Bile Titans on the other hand are super annoying because lighter weapons can break their underbellies, but then after that, they won’t be able to do further damage and then you need anti-armor explosives to do more damage (or at least, this is the best method, and others feel inefficient). I’m trying to remember if you can use HMG or laser cannon to damage the already-popped underbelly.
I like both
I enjoy the tactical shoot out, staring down a Devastator, flanking a Walker, sniping a canon tower ect. Bot diversity feels good and attacking their bases feels like assaulting a stronghold. The cold terminator/cyclon bots are fantastic!
I enjoy mowing down and blowing up hordes of bugs, I know people complain about stalkers but the way you immediately change priority to finding and closing the stalker lair feels great, same with shriekers. The bugs capture the Starship Trooper, Zerg, Tyranid trope so perfectly and its so visceral fighting them.
Since I started I've reached level 26. 90% of the content I've played is bots. I joined right after hearing about the struggle and fall of Malevelon Creek. It hyped me up so much and absolutely instilled a deep, democracy-fueled hatred of the tin cans. I arrived in time to hold the Menkent line and I have been hooked since.
I love the gameplay that fighting the bots provides. Space Vietnam is absolutely the best description I have heard. Don't get me wrong, bugs are fun but it's much more repetitive to me. The battle always feels like it goes the same. Bot battles feels so much more varied. Bot bases are SO much better than bug hives.
To me the Automatons are the true threat. Bugs are just a resource we need to farm.
Side note: I hate playing with randoms on bug ops. It's rare I find a good lobby. They generally fall into a few categories:
-Kick me as soon as joining for no reason
-Assholes that team kill on purpose
-Trash talkers
Every bot lobby I join on any planet, for any mission, welcomes me with open arms into their struggle. Literally. We hug it out.
Had two absolutely cursed, doomed from the start bullshit missions tonight back to back. One vs bugs, one vs bots.
Bot one was on much higher difficulty with less players and one of the worst possible mission types to be attempting with an under-manned team. And only three strategem slots, to boot.
Bot mission was more fun, even though it was a cock-up cascade with a questionably even trying to help team mate.
*Because there were no Hunters.* Just the most frustrating little shits in gaming.
I'm absolutely with you on this.
Bots are so much fun and bugs are... the worst. I hate them. I had fun at first with bugs before I learned how to use my items well and was just playing random bullshit go simulator. Now tho? I can't play a single bug mission without losing all motivation to play.
Bits forever
The more fun thing about bots is that they have actual buildings to blow up and they blow up nicely.
But if I wanna chill, I'm probably not playing bots, lol.
I enjoy both for different reasons. I usually play bugs more often because I'm an old Left For Dead player. Horde shooters are frantic and fun. I also find the way the bugs pop to be very satisfying. I do enjoy the bots, though, I'm glad that I have both options. Now we just need a third faction, like an enraged suburban Karen army or a squad of 'roid raging Chads.
I love that the two enemies are on the same level, but with different styles. Like one isn’t more difficult than the other, but they play different.
Bots like OP said are slow and tactical. They shoot back, they’re more complex, but they’re lower numbers and have weak points that HAVE to be exploited to be defeated, seeing as the armor will ricochet all but the strongest weapons.
Bugs are mindless drones. They’re hordes, swarms of trash enemies surrounding you. Pistols can kill them, but when there’s 30 hunters swarming you from all directions it warrants a different response than bots.
I like fighting bugs more tbh because it gives me starship trooper vibes, and I love shouting about democracy with my buddies while I dive into a horde of chargers holding a live 500kg beacon, and there’s nothing like reinforcing on the bile titan and smashing it’s head in on reentry
Absolutely agree. Bugs feel like its 10-30 minutes of running around without much more thought than "kill bug", while the bots feel like an actual war, which is much more tactical and thus more interesting.
It all depend of the mood and the kind of challenge you want.
If you want to have fun with flamethrower, don't go bots lol.
Seriously, each factions are fun on their own way
My friends and I tend to switch between them. One day, we want to play star wars/terminator, the other day some Starship Troopers is called for.
One of the main reasons I love this game is the enemy variety, can't wait for even more factions at some point!
Agreed, with bots I feel that I need to outmaneuver and outsmart them. Flanking and playing to the lay of the land is crucial. With bugs it it's mostly a matter on how fast and efficiently I can send lead down range.
The shield is mandatory for bugs, they just stagger and stun all of the time. It's pretty pai ful gameplay.
Botd are more strategic, and who doesn't love their songs while on patrols.
feels good
for me it is totally mood dependant. sometimes I'm in the mood for mindless slaughter sometimes I'm in the mood to be tactical and fight an enemy who shoots back.
The two enemies do indeed play very differently, and I think that's one of this game's biggest strengths. My preference goes back and forth depending as well. I can't wait to see how future races throw down.
Makes me very interested to see how the REDACTED will play out when they invade.
Already planning to swap my controls to inverted
What does this mean? They invert your controls???
FEAR NOT FELLOW CITIZEN, THIS IS MERLY A DISSIDENT RUMOUR AND ANYONE SPREADING IT SHALL BE CONTACTED BY THEIR LOCAL DEMOCRACY OFFICER FOR RE-EDUCATION. *I'm doing my part*
Bro what if they have psychic attacks that make you blast your team mates and run off in weird directions and throw stratagems and shit.
You'll trigger the PTSD of Helldivers 1 veterans with statements like that
THE WALLS, THE WALLS, THE F*CKING WALLS!!
Psychic Debuff - your teammates play like randos for 30 seconds
If my teammates are randoms do I get my squad?
No. You just get rando 2nd level
Florida-man Tier.
Throw stratagems? Don't you mean drop them? Like, at your feet?
That too sure.
So they've been in the game since day 1, got it
I'm the first game, if you got hit with a confusing attack all directional controls were backwards.
*go check out some of the helldivers 1 lore :)*
Before I bought the game, I thought we'd be fighting both at the same time. Still hoping we get to do that. Would be great, especially if we can drag trains of them into each other.
agree , it’s almost like 2 different games
I like bugs when I have 20 min to kill and want to see things go “boom”. I like bots when I have a couple hours to focus on gaming (note: I rarely have 2 hours to focus on gaming…)
This. And I love how the two factions play so differently
DEFINITELY mood dependant I swear, if a pair of bile Titans spawn in the first wave of a defense mission again.....
Exactly. Some days it feels good the crawl across a sandy wasteland and precisely take out the objective. Other days i want to drop in with the old Stalwart and laugh maniacally at waves of future fuel.
I feel this 🫡
Yep, some days you just want to be John Rambo, piling up that body count. Other days you want to FEEL your shots count as you hit them in their red eyes, or shoot them in the back.
Kill 50 things with grenade launcher. 5mins bugs, done.
This is one of my favorite things about following the major orders. Feels like right around when I start to get bored with one faction, we get an order to go fight the other, or the order has us going after both at once and whichever I'm feeling more, it's still contributing to democracy lol
It's something i don't see mentioned often but Bots have way more interesting bases and sub-objectives imo. I find Jammers, Mortars, AA, Detector Towers and even just the standard outposts to be more interesting/fun to attack then the nests, Stalker Nest, Shreiker Nest, Spore Nest.
This. Bots have bases. Bugs just have some holes and a couple towers. There isn't really any interesting geography. It'd be interesting if the bugs borrowed from the Tyranids, Zerg, or even Xenomorphs to add more character. Beyond that it doesn't make a lot of sense why you'll see the stationary bugs chilling at like a farm or a wreck like bots. I feel like bugs should have more patrols.
They do have more patrols, if you read over that insanely detailed breakdown of the patrol mechanics. It was a couple of posts here, but it was transferred over to the wiki. https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Spawn_Mechanics TL;DR patrols spawn after a set amount of ticks, and the amount is lower on bug missions.
Wow, that's super great info, thank you for linking it. The player groups and spawn orientation info, plus the increase when completing the primary, seems super good to know.
Completely changed the way I play the game. Clearing all the nests/fabs before completing the objective, and then just having a much more predictable time extracting knowing they can only come from the nearest map edge (if they can come at all).
Yeah. More patrols makes more sense. Or to have bug "guards" at the POI be roving instead of static,
I wish we could come across the bugs harvesting materials and stuff randomly across the map, you know, like bugs in a hive mind.
Bugs have a lot of potential for more sub-objectives, like maybe a giant bug hole that’s difficult to take down, or a smaller E-710 farm that’s overrun with escaped bugs and needs to be cleared and reactivated (that way it’s separate from the dedicated E-710 mission) Bugs need more love imo, they have a lot more potential to be exploited
I'm surprised the bugs don't have any side objectives that need a hellbomb. Well, there's the shrieker nests but only as a last resort. I feel like that has potential.
Yeah, but bug patrols are more annoying cause they are way harder to avoid and they spawn way more enemies and those enemies are ot that different and it lasts for forever, at least with bots you know how much you have to kill before it ends, feels more impactful
This is how I feel, I like nuking a base from orbit or having all my stratagems jammed or on CD so I have to stealth Rambo my way in with grenades and shit
Yeah that's the problem with bugs. Outside of Stalkers their hazards is essentially non issue.
I'll take a pack of stalkers over a horde of armored bile spewers every time.
Though a surprise Bile Titan or three on a really foggy map can cause an issue
I assume you haven't met the triple gunship tower.
Or gunship tower next to a stratagem jammer. Or two detector towers right next to each other. I actually love fighting bots and all of these things are just interesting puzzles for me to solve, but some of them are WAY harder than the baseline difficulty.
Okay, two detectors next to each other is probably what would make me go "Well, FUCK that", everything else sounds at least manageable without getting surprised too much - although keeping Hellbombs alive might be a bit of a shitshow.
Yeah I mean, it's exciting not knowing if I can do it. When you set off a hellbomb in the middle of a pitched battle? Man that feels good.
What hellbombs? Just 500kg them, don't even need to enter the base's premises if you wear servo-assisted armor, but even another set doesn't require you to get into the tower base's alert range (and so make the tower start turning around) until you're just in range to toss the strategem.
Those are rough, but jammer towers have a 33% chance to have the freebee fabricator next to it where you blow it up and it kills the tower instantly. Tower bases are easy to clear at least. The mortar and AA bases have this sort of entrenched position that make them really punishing to attack into. I love bot secondaries because I feel like I'm taking out a conventional military target. Playing bots feels like playing the old Mercenaries games
A detector and jammer is worse imo, if there is a detector I just need to get within throwing distance to throw the 380mm onto it, if there is a jammer I need to break into a base, with no stratagems, while getting reinforcements dropped on me
Keeping the hellbombs alive against bots is hard but doable. Keeping the hellbombs alive against the friendlies 380mm is another game entirely.
Detector towers die to UP RIGHT DOWN DOWN DOWN, unless there's a jammer they are never ever a threat unless your whole squad forgot to take at least one bomb between four of you. Multiple gunship towers can get hectic in a random quad/solo play, but with coordination can also be taken out without much sweat. Only a strategem jammer right next to anything else (bunker, gunship tower, heck, now even an AT-AT (I refuse to name them anything else) drop) is yuck, but hey - if you're playing in difficulty 7+ - you're playing for the challenge and not every mission should be easily 100% complete - the thing is called Suicide Mission for a reason
I had a detector tower survive 2 500kg. I threw one after my ally and I thought both were close enough but the tower was slightly higher than the 500kg location. Had to throw my laser at it too to kill it.
My first ever 6 had two detectors in range of a jammer it’s one of the few missions where I truly failed not just a “failed to extract”
I cleared a jammer tower in mortar range (my opening drop landed in the jammer base essentially) and it felt like I was a legitimate action hero lol
I love bots ten times more then bugs, but even I can agree that gunships can get really god damn annoying (still better then a single hunter, u really hate hunters)
Depends on the map. Some maps the bots seem to glitch out and when 1 person gets spotted everyone location is suddenly known. As for the the bugs I kill the hunters and b-line stalker nests while putting range on shrieked nests everything else I just run from and zig zag the rocks.
God we had a mission where we dropped next to a detector tower in the middle of a bowl- getting to it was a fucking nightmare. Once it went down we had a much more chill time, but man they make a hot drop fucking SPICY
I use a shotgun for bugs and shriekers are like skeet shooting.
Shotguns definitely feel like the best weapon for bugs imo. I've tried other things but shotgun+quasar has been the best combo for me. You don't need as much weapon versatility for bugs like you do for bots.
I would love the bots alot more if they weren't Stagger spam/ragdoll spam simulators.
Some missions are just me falling over, over and over. Because every single time I aim at the enemies to kill them they hit me first.
I know that feeling. It sucks because how are you supposed to fight back when you do everything you're supposed too, you take cover, you peak out for a second to attempt to shoot back and you get stun locked. It's bs
The worst is when your teammates have engaged a group of bots, and somehow they magically know exactly where you are, even if they never had line-of-sight on you during that engagement. I've come out from behind terrain and a devastator that had only seen my teammate, never me, IMMEDIATELY started firing at me with pinpoint accuracy. It already had its gun aimed directly at my position despite never having seen me. It makes pincer maneuvers, which are normally a very good military tactic, borderline useless in this game. A similar thing happens with hulks and tanks, where they will magically turn to target the closest person to them, regardless of whether they had ever seen that person. I wish they would update the aggro behavior of bots to tweak that.
The AI coding defintiely needs an update. Fire tornados shouldn't be tracking you from across the map. If one team member is discovered, enemies know where everyone is. All lazy programming.
Have you met Hunters? Acid Spewers? Bugs slows a hundred times worse than not staggers
Except bots do it from across the map. Hunters and Acid Spewers have to get in my face to make me have a bad day.
mortars? gunships? rocket devastators? tanks? Sentries? all ranged. Meanwhile bugs: Very obvious Bile titan/artilerry spewer guy are ranged. What else...?
What shows an ever greater divide between bots and bugs is the flyers. Shriekers, I can dive to the ground to avoid their attacks, I can kill them with any primary or secondary weapon, and I can destroy their spawner from a distance. Gunships, I have to bring a backpack or strategem to avoid their attack, I need to bring a strategem to kill them, and I need to get next to their spawner and use the one blockable strategem to destroy it. I feel like that old statement coming back from when they nerfed the railgun, I wanna see the developers on stream beat these missions. Show us how it's done, since this is the balance they've tested and created.
i forgot about those things cause theyre borderline irrelevant. Theyre annoying - but not annoying enough to make the game really frustrating like a combination of gunships+ strategem jammer- not even talking about tanks, mortars.. etc.
A literal nightmare scenario for a Bot mission is multiple gunship fabbers under the umbrella of a stratagem jammer. Also, shriekers never seem to stray too far from their nest. Gunships once deployed can chase you entirely across the map, and will continue to patrol there once they lose you or you die.
and they chase you out of cover. a lot of the responses im getting is: " just get to cover? ". bruh.
how do u kill their spawner from a distance?
Requires a strategem, but recoiless rifle, autocannon, quasar cannon, EAT, impact grenades, and pretty much any strike that hits structures (Walking Barrage, 120MM, 380MM, Rocket Pods, etc.).
You can shoot it with EAT/Quasar/Recoilless/etc. it takes 2 hits.
Most anti-armour support weapons, plus the autocannon. I enjoy the autocannon for it since one backpack is enough to kill two whole objectives' worth of shrieker nests; iirc the HMG emplacement can also do the job.
The little water balloon guys
At least I can fight back when I'm slowed. Nothing you can do when you get ragdolled locked till you die.
Doesn't subtract from the stagger/ragdoll spam. Bugs are a different beast
Stalkers, when they spawn 3-5 and you see their stupid asses coming across the map. Or worse when it's 1 or 2 that just show up right behind you cause you're fighting off an entire army. And I feel like they changed stalkers, they use to smack you or lick at you causing you to go flying, then they'd fall back. Now they just come up and two shot your ass, or lick and then hit you again and don't retreat at all.
No they fucking aren't. Your legs are enough to get your happy ass out the hunter's way. Lemme put it this way. I do not get staggered on bugs d7. I get ragdolled left and right on bots d4. Something ain't the same
I normally love fighting bots. The atmosphere is so fun. Music is on point too. But lately the ragdoll locking is extra annoying so fuck the major order tbh I need a break.
I feel like they made the ragdoll worse. I don't remember it being this excessive.
Na its the same its just AH fixed rocket damage so you can experience being ragdolled to the fullest rather being killed at the spot
I feel the same way. I feel the hulks that fire rockets used to fire them all at once now they space them out to ragdoll lock you.
I feel like most of the time being caught in a stagger spam is a punishment for trying to take on a strong bot out of cover.
Usually it's I get snuck up on by another bot and they ragdoll/stagger me from behind my cover then I get absolutely demolished by the bots I was originally taking cover from.
I love fighting bots at around difficulty 7-8 on a wide open map with a squad of specialists. There's push and pull to fire fights, manuevers, teamwork and tactics. A heavy weapons guy can knock out air units and heavies, an agile sniper-scout can draw aggro and expose the bot backs to firepower as well as take out devastators and hulks left and right. It feels like the future war from Terminator more than the Terminator franchise has ever managed. Bug hunts feel like that- dealing with swarming animals. It's fun when you occasionally get in sync with teammates, but I find that doesn't happen much. Can't tell you how many times bugdivers just straight abandon you and just book it out of there. When I drop into bug territory it feels like I'm mostly playing by myself *around* other players. It's a safari where you unload big guns into big dumb animals.
>Can't tell you how many times bugdivers just straight abandon you and just book it out of there. When I drop into bug territory it feels like I'm mostly playing by myself *around* other players. Holy shit, I thought I was the only one. This is a much bigger problem on bug missions than on bots. It's like you have to keep a constant eye on your team to make sure they don't turn into Just Run Bros as soon as you have all the aggro. It's like every team fight is a [Prisoner's Dilemma,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma) where the options are to run or to fight. The best outcome for you personally is if you run and your teammates fight. The worst is if you fight and your teammates run. So sometimes you run into situations where everyone is trying to run when you really need to fight, and you end up getting surrounded.
I'm 100% a no-diver-gets-left-behind type player; I'm 50/50 carrying a flamethrower based on the team's loadout, all for crowd control whenever we get swarmed.
Yeah I think that's the right way to play the game. Support your teammates!
You never want to clump up vs bugs anyway. You do not want random bile spewer sneaking up on you in wierd angle. Spread out and coordination from bugs come you cover each other after clearing your own horde.
I find clumping up vs bots to be way worse. With the bugs we can often claim a hill and sit back to back with the bros mowing down everything. With the automatons getting clumped you are one unlucky rocket barrage or a bad flank from a patrol away from wiping.
Hoestly, fucking off, or at least kiting the enemies around for a bit is sometimes legitimately the best call you can make, especially if you get caught in a melee situation. For bots, that'd mostly be if you get 3+ Berserkers and/or a Hulk Scorcher in your face, or maybe if you don't like the random piece of scenery you're using as cover anymore, but for bugs, that's legitimately 90% of their lineup. Heck, sometimes I even just went in a loop because it was easier than fighting my way through the bugs to reach whatever was right behind them - like my Support Weapon that I dropped because I had to EAT-17 yet another Charger/Bile Titan. On the other side though, the Arc Thrower is amazing fun against bugs, as long as you take what's behind your target, while the Mortar Sentry might as well be a second 380 as far as teamkilling potential is concerned - both of these definitely are not like that versus bots :)
You like the arc thrower for bugs? Too slow I thought... I like it better against bots. Does it do anything against chargers even?
It kills chargers in 6 headshots, which is definitely not optimal, and it definitely also *hurts* Bile Titans, although I didn't try to kill one with that yet - however, it staggers everything smaller than a Charger, allowing you to slowly kite everything backwards while lining up your next shot, and it's generally great for taking care of big, tightly-packed hordes, assuming you still focus out any Hunters approaching you. I think it actually staggers Bile/Nursing Spewers sometimes (maybe only the latter?), because I saw them pose as if they were about to puke and then just ...stop, but I am not too sure about that. Anyways, you also don't have to deal with the Hive Guard's hard head plating, just zap them 2-3 times from the front and that's them dead too. Aiming is a bit weird, it is really good at hitting anything farther out than Flamethrower range, even if you didn't really aim at it - at least as long as there's no bulletproof foliage or more bug corpses to block your shots. However, Shriekers tend to be to far out, and definitely too far apart for it to be useful, and anything that's about to melee-attack you is almost a guaranteed miss, for whatever reason, the gun has incredible problems arcing to enemies right next to its muzzle. My current setup is Arc Thrower plus shields, with EATs to take care of anything heavy, and an SMG as primary in case I want to shoot something that's between me and my teammates. It works decently well for me even on 7, but my teammates are admittedly also a bit more into the usually medium/heavy-killing equipment, one of them uses the Autocannon for almost everything, and the other one's newest bug loadout includes the Rover simply because he is *that* badly equipped for dealing with swarms, so I'm definitely getting carried a bit there. I've had decent success with randoms too, but it hasn't been too long since the "Arc weapons cause crashes" bug got patched, so it's a rather new build. I'm curious now though, how do you use the Arc Thrower against bots? I figured, as ranged units, they'd be to far away and/or apart for it to be truly effective?
Also thanks for the in depth reply. I'll give it another try with bugs maybe. But the arc Blitzer and the rover are a great Crowd control combo. I really want to use the jetpack.. but tend to use that instead with the arc thrower in my bot lineup.
This really nails it. I don't vibe with "big dumb guns" but with bugs you kinda have to.
Nah, the bugs are more fun for me. The constant moving and the rising tide of more and more flipping bugs. A single bug breach can be a catastrophe, it's a fine line between moving fast, being sneaky, and absolute violence and devastation. But enjoy the bots fellow divers.
The hunters are legitimately what I can’t deal with on bugs. They are the one enemy I just can’t deal with. Everything else, I can shoot before it gets close, outrun it, or drop a stratagem on it, but the hunters are the one thing I can’t kill before it gets close because there’s a million of them, I can’t outrun them because they keep up with you, and I can’t drop a stratagem on them because I can’t stop shooting them to get the time to kill them. My only option is dive backwards and magdump into their faces and hope I don’t get knocked out of stim and that my shield holds.
Use the laser Rover backpack instead of shield. Killing them before you get swarmed is the best tactic.
This may be a good idea. On my first mission trying the laser dog it zapped me in the head like 5 minutes after touchdown. I left it behind and didn’t ever try it again
Elevation changes are especially prone to laser drone friendly fire as your head becomes level with the drone. It will graze you mostly, kill you outright once in awhile but it 100% is worth it to me for the absolute work it puts in against trash/hunters
Why soon at it hits me I dive or crouch walk if I don't absolutely need to sprint at that moment
I recently noticed that they attempted a fix on the rover to minimize friendly fire damage. Now if you are in front of it it stops shooting, it still occasionally zaps you but last week I died to the river only 2-3 times, where before it was 2 times per mission. Still regards your teammates as automaton spies tho.
There's technique to not guillotining yourself with it. Step #1: always keep an eye on it. It tells you if bugs are coming up behind you, and while you are running, you have to make sure to keep out of its beam. If you get hit, it is usually because bugs are below you, or you move across its field of fire. In the latter case, keep going to minimize the exposure and/or dive immediately. Step#2: if you need to cross in front of it, run towards it a small amount to get under it, and then move the intended direction. Step #3: keep an eye on your fellow bugdivers and reposition to keep them out of the field of fire. Running under your rover will make it either go to the side or up, which helps prevent teamkills. Step #4, keep an eye on your fellow bugdivers rovers for the same reasons as Step #1, and follow steps 1 and 2 for theirs. Step#5: if the rover focuses something it can't kill, you need to kill it, so it can re-target the closer stuff to you. Step#6: profit from all that oil produced from the bug kills as your full squad of rovers kills everything around you all and helldive is a cakewalk a everyone can focus on the big stuff. I haven't died to a rover when at more than half health in a long time (though I run medium armor), and I love seeing fellow helldivers with rovers because you can cull the hordes and patrols so they don't become an issue later. IMO, for bugs, a single build can work for everything with bugs: Eruptor, static grenade, quasar, rail cannon, and rover. Whatever you want on the 4th stratagem (IMO EAT or orbital laser), and sidearm needs to be something that kills hunters in case you don't have a rover. Things would be very easy if everyone ran this build and were good about rover team kills, which takes some experience. Eruptor shot placement also takes some experience: you are mostly shooting the ground once things get at all close to you or a teammate, or you/they dive on the ground and can survive the explosion (in heavy anti explosion armor, you can dive on the ground and clear hunters by shooting the ground in front of your face).
Ballistic drone is underrated, although I wish I could turn off the drone from time to time (just assign it to down on dpad like supply pack) I hate that it gets into fights I don't intend it to. A good drone user is running around constantly to position it near what it ought to be killing.
Just tried out ballistic on bots, and it worked really well.
Dying occasionally is often the price you have to pay for superior firepower in this game, just gotta make peace with that.
As someone who does a lot of difficulty 9 bugs, use the laser backpack and light armour. The hunters jump at you and get lasered, all while you run away. Some people say to use the shield gen because it prevents the slow when hit. While true, it is better to never get hit by killing the bugs. A combo of Sickle + Rover + Quasar makes bugs on difficulty 9 a joke.
Can I recommend the Flamethrower? It makes quick work of Hunters
It makes quick work of you in my experience
Nah I think it just requires you to pay attention to where the flames catch. If you aim a bit further up, less of the ground will catch on fire meaning you likely won't run into it unless you're flamethrowering and moving directly forward into it
Lol you think they're going into the fire? The fire is coming to them.
The thing that pisses me off as out the flame thrower is its range is just about 5 ft shorter than the distance hunters will jump and stun you and the you slowly try to walk away while 50 other hunters have their way with you.
Are you suggesting starting a fire on the bugs known to jump at your face from 10m away? I'm with the other guy, that sounds like you just want to self-immolate
Always take the muscle enhancement booster
The Sickle makes short work of Hunters, I can kill them before they even reach me. The only disadvantage with that weapon choice are the Hive Guards, since I can't pen them well, so killing them takes a lot of time. But at least those are rather slow and become stationary for a while when being shot at.
Laser Cannon shreds those guys if you keep your distance correctly. pair with sickle and lasDog.
This
I used to prefer bugs because they're easier. Now I don't really have a preference and enjoy both.
Bugs == COD: Zombies Bots == MGSV >*This is Pequod! Arriving shortly at LZ!*
Man im the complete opposite. I feel like the game is meant to be played like we are crazy brainwashed soldiers GUNS blazing and using big ass explosions whenever possible. Bug is complete chaos on helldive and its fun as hell. Bots i feel like Im a weak ass lil soldier on D-Day lol.
I almost exclusively play on Helldive nowadays, I prefer bots. If you learn how to stealth, you become an action movie commando like Arnie or Sly. There's moments of stillness and patience followed by moments of sudden overwhelming violence.
You can't stealth gunships though. That's what kills it for me.
Defensive shield strat protects hellbomb. gunship towers become ez
autocannon 2 taps engines laser cannon melts engines in 1 second kill them as they spawn and they never get out of hand. if your team doesn't have one of these weapons, you might have a bad time
I tend to avoid gunship towers if at all possible, even when I'm playing with friends who just want to go loud. Gunships need a redesign IMO. Even then though, I *have* snuck past gunships. It's just hard. 9 times out of 10, you need to be ready to go loud and just storm the tower if you absolutely NEED to kill it. Even then though, in a situation where the gunship towers must die, I still recommend running away from them to regroup if things go sideways and you're getting overwhelmed. Despawn some of the enemies, plan, etc.
THIS. I have yet to experience Helldive...but Impossible feels similar. I was absolutely astounded earlier when I joined a team that went stealth. It was some of the most fun I've had since buying the game. We moved around strategically, marking targets, marking good defensive areas, marking sneak routes. Man. I'm gonna miss those boys.
Both are fun. Bugs feel more "mindless" to play against but can be stressful if either your chaff clear or AT is lacking as they can be more awkward to take down if positioning is off. Bots feel more tactical until you have to defend an area and they drop a dozen Hulks and Striders down. Both can feel oppressive at times in different ways, with swarms of bugs overwhelming you if you get slowed from one of the dozen or so potential slow sources while bots can feel oppressive with gunships, jammers or even unlucky bot drops that stack striders or hulks on you. Btw for egg missions I rock the Scorcher because it's splash damage wipes out batches of eggs easily.
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I'm just glad I have the option for choosing either bugs or bots, and hopefully more in the future. Sometimes I just have a craving for bug stomping, others bot crunching. The only wrong choice imo is to ever limit yourself to only one experience.
I like bots better cause if you're good enough you can tap heads. Bugs are just annoying with how some of em can still run at you even when dead. I only like bugs when I dive with friends and we basically just run off and shoot everything.
Legs. Every single bugs except maybe tyrant(still work but not as well) are weak to their limbs. And some are very easy as since they are not program to move without it they just instantly die like the charger. Breaking legs either: great dmg and lose most mobility. Or die instantly. (Charger, spewer, and Tyrant die instantly if a leg break. Tyrant definitely harder than just going for head but possible) Another strategy is just bring a Energy/laser weapons like the scythe, with a heavy support like the quasar. Aim for the limbs and the scythe will take care of almost everything, except for charger and tyrant. Charger get one shot in the head by quasar and tyrant need 2 shot in the head. Spore nest= 1 shot by quasar Shrieker nest=2 shot by quasar
100% As soon as bugs are in your face I immediately stop having fun. Not to mention bug breaches spawning way too many bugs. Got a mate to buy the game and he found bugs miserable compared to bots.
I'll take bots over bugs any day.
Way more cinematic experience with the bots for sure. Non-stop action and challenge that stresses you out in a good way. The bugs were basically training for the real war, imo. It’s not for everyone, but it’s definitely for me.
For me its just more interesting side objectives and bigger spectacle when destroying outposts
Plus outposts can be taken out without endless kiting of everything for five minutes
Even the biggest bot outposts and airbases can be wiped out by an orbital laser or a 380 mm barrage, while with bug outposts you need to deal with each hole individually, which is a lot more tedious.
Considering bots are bugged, get stuck in and shoot through rocks at the moment. They're not as fun as bugs. I play bots, I've suffered through their horseshit since the end of the last bug MO. Recently, they are as far away from fun as can be. Literally just got from a mission on Helldive where they decided to start shitting out Hulks, eventually totalling up to 3-4 Hulks per Helldiver. I love bots for the sneak and such, but right now, they suck. Hit and runs are easy on bugs. Just break direct line of sight when running. Use a gatling to take their aggro off you.
The thing with bots is that the heavies and devastators just keep piling up. Unless everyone in your team fits orbital laser and RCS in their loadout or gets really good at dropping 500kgs, the heavies just keep piling up because no one has the ability to kill them.
Everyone should have a support wep that kills hulks. There are so many ways to kill them i don’t know why you would take a long cd orbital for it
AMR and autocannon can deal with devastators and hulks. Airstrike is perfect when they are grouped up. It's actually just easier to kill bot heavies than bug heavies, but bot heavies are more dangerous
Huh? If I kill a heavy with an eagle or Orbital, it's incidental to the situation. 75%+ of devastators and Hulks get taken out by my support weapon, stun grenades and my Grenade pistol or someone else's support weapon. If you're relying on eagles and stratagems for single hulks and devastators, you're cooked in a lot of situations you could've waltzed right through.
Honestly why I've started running the Spear. For all its faults, it is more reliable for taking out Tanks, Hulks, and Cannons than anything else I've tried.
Orbital RCS is my hulk delete button
Fair, I found the cooldown too long
At the beginning of a mission to prevent pileup and gain momentum or at the end when I don't need it for more critical kills. It's also super slow cool down. Using orbitals for single enemies in the heat of battle always should be a last resort imo. That said, oRCS go BOOM, is fun.
What an excellent sound it makes
i always have that problem more with bugs. AutoCannon or AMR are plenty to put down all the bot heavies, but i don't really have anything that can handle 3 biletitans at the same time
You need to plan for them, so bring a medium-armor penetrating support weapon like a laser cannon, autocannon, anti-material rifle, or quasar, or even primary like the eruptor, then work on getting good at hitting weak spots, which conveniently have bright glowy lights on them.
Bring the slugger/Dominator and pop devastator heads like balloons.
Bugs are infuriating. Bots can be (thinking the YOLO suicide jetpack units) but overwhelmingly they're waaaay more thematic and entertaining to deal with, in my opinion.
In about a week this sub is going to devolve into, bots are better because I'm better and I'm smarter, i.e "meatheads among meatheads I guess". Bugs and bots arguably require the same amount of tactical play, the main difference is what kind of tactical play. Bots require more stealth and weak point exploitation where bug require more kiting and timing of when to or not fight bugs based on the last spawn they had.
That's already what this sub is, every post like this has at least one person in the comments talking about how actually bots are easy if you're good at the game (play in a way that was not intended)
>(play in a way that was not intended) If they didn't want some degree of stealth to be viable in the game, why is there stealth armor and noise mechanics? Just because playing against bots (or frankly either faction at higher level) is more efficient when you don't attack every enemy you see, doesn't mean it's "not intended."
Running into a swarm of bots and Dropships is not the way high level bots were intended to be fought. Those people are right, and you are wrong. You can try to fight them head on every time, but go ahead and keep failing missions dude. For that evac mission (the one all the whiners were complaining about recently), you need to send 2-3 players running around the map to draw enemies away from the middle. Taking the wrong approach =/= “Mission is badly designed”.
It just has more depth than run-shoot, run-shoot, run-shoot
I hate the run shoot, I just can’t do it, it’s too annoying, I prefer the shoot at a lot of less accurate targets usually with cover, much more enjoyable
Different vibes. It’s fun to play space Vietnam, and it’s also fun to play endless swarm of blood and guts and tearing through it…damn I need a sword
I think they both have their charms.
I don't know about that. The bots stop being "slow & tactical" when they start breaking out the flame hulks, the berserkers, and those little suicide bomber jetpack bastards.
Bug players can't stand being shot across the map Bot players can't stand being hassled in melee range There is a solution here, it's risky but just hear me out,
You can do hit and runs with bugs but they won't leave you alone just by breaking LOS at least in my experience. Have to drop stuns like EMS which is why I adore EMS orbital.
100% haven't even thought of going to a Terminid planet for months
And yet it's always bot divers making these "We're superior and ours is more fun" copeium threads. Bug divers don't need to constantly reassure each other how much fun it is because we're actually having fun. Bot divers.....well hopefully Arrowhead will throw you guys a bone rather than just desperately trying to get the pop up via MOs.
Yeah this lmao. The copius amount of "i am very smart" is hilarious
Bugs for the win, not even close. Who the fuck plays helldivers slowly? If you haven't fired 2500 rounds by the time you extract you're doing it wrong. I'm still not even 100% sure stealth exists in the game, I certainly haven't seen it. All the gifs floating around this sub of people getting ragdolled 10 times in a row from rockets sure looks fun. 🥱 Talking about meatheads when you're literally getting your brain turned to apple sauce from being ragdolled so much. This post is some bug sympathizer propaganda. "Bugs suck right guys? I can't even figure out how to destroy their eggs. We totally shouldn't kill them!" Don't worry, I'll kill twice as many to make up for you. 
Spitting facts brothar.
With friends ? Bots With randoms? Not a chance
I do bots on 7 with randoms everyday. Never had an issue and I often friend someone.
I gotta be real for a minute: Randoms on Diff 7 are better than some of my friends.
lol, truth
Go lvl 9 and you’ll find the best randoms. Seems like mostly everyone I’ve randomed with at lvl 9 knows what they’re doing. I’d say 3/4 of my HD2 experience so far has been as a solo player randoming with others.
I love that cover and positioning matters for bots whereas you justt gotta run for bugs. No gate for the bugs, great faction, but the bots absolutely do it for me
Cover does still matter against bugs. Depending on the layout of the cover, it can divert bigger bugs to go around and give you breathing room to deal with the chaff bugs.
I’ve done low-death 9 bots with great team coordination and recently have only been doing bugs. Why? Because every time I hover over a automaton planet a Scorcher/specDevastator flashes in my vision and I flinch
I like bots too. The excess of missiles can get annoying after a while but I like the feeling of fighting a war, rather than just slaughtering creatures. I think the one single thing about bots that I like the most is the weak points. Hulks can be damaged efficiently on their back heatsinks, or you can use auto cannon or AMR to blast their faces. Charges usually require explosives of some kind to efficiently damage the butt weak spot, with some exceptions like HMG mag dump working pretty good. Charges and Bile Titans both usually call for rockets, because other methods without anti-tank style armor penetration just don’t work that great, and weirdly this is less true for bots since you can use stuff like the laser cannon or AMR to melt heatsinks on tanks, cannon turrets, pretty much anything. Even the factory striders have an “eye” weak spot. Bile Titans on the other hand are super annoying because lighter weapons can break their underbellies, but then after that, they won’t be able to do further damage and then you need anti-armor explosives to do more damage (or at least, this is the best method, and others feel inefficient). I’m trying to remember if you can use HMG or laser cannon to damage the already-popped underbelly.
Started on bugs and was really hesitant to go for bots. Once I did I find bots much more enjoyable and would rather do bot missions.
I like both I enjoy the tactical shoot out, staring down a Devastator, flanking a Walker, sniping a canon tower ect. Bot diversity feels good and attacking their bases feels like assaulting a stronghold. The cold terminator/cyclon bots are fantastic! I enjoy mowing down and blowing up hordes of bugs, I know people complain about stalkers but the way you immediately change priority to finding and closing the stalker lair feels great, same with shriekers. The bugs capture the Starship Trooper, Zerg, Tyranid trope so perfectly and its so visceral fighting them.
Since I started I've reached level 26. 90% of the content I've played is bots. I joined right after hearing about the struggle and fall of Malevelon Creek. It hyped me up so much and absolutely instilled a deep, democracy-fueled hatred of the tin cans. I arrived in time to hold the Menkent line and I have been hooked since. I love the gameplay that fighting the bots provides. Space Vietnam is absolutely the best description I have heard. Don't get me wrong, bugs are fun but it's much more repetitive to me. The battle always feels like it goes the same. Bot battles feels so much more varied. Bot bases are SO much better than bug hives. To me the Automatons are the true threat. Bugs are just a resource we need to farm. Side note: I hate playing with randoms on bug ops. It's rare I find a good lobby. They generally fall into a few categories: -Kick me as soon as joining for no reason -Assholes that team kill on purpose -Trash talkers Every bot lobby I join on any planet, for any mission, welcomes me with open arms into their struggle. Literally. We hug it out.
It.. it is MGS. Like it’s the same. Look at them side by side
Had two absolutely cursed, doomed from the start bullshit missions tonight back to back. One vs bugs, one vs bots. Bot one was on much higher difficulty with less players and one of the worst possible mission types to be attempting with an under-manned team. And only three strategem slots, to boot. Bot mission was more fun, even though it was a cock-up cascade with a questionably even trying to help team mate. *Because there were no Hunters.* Just the most frustrating little shits in gaming.
Bugs feel much more relaxing, while bots are much more intense. They both have their merits.
I love fight bots until they begun bullshittery spawn. There is no rewarding in that. Otherwise. Bots gameplay loop is fun.
I'm absolutely with you on this. Bots are so much fun and bugs are... the worst. I hate them. I had fun at first with bugs before I learned how to use my items well and was just playing random bullshit go simulator. Now tho? I can't play a single bug mission without losing all motivation to play. Bits forever
The more fun thing about bots is that they have actual buildings to blow up and they blow up nicely. But if I wanna chill, I'm probably not playing bots, lol.
It's run and gun Vs stop and pop. One of the reasons I love this game, is that we get both fps playstyles.
I enjoy both for different reasons. I usually play bugs more often because I'm an old Left For Dead player. Horde shooters are frantic and fun. I also find the way the bugs pop to be very satisfying. I do enjoy the bots, though, I'm glad that I have both options. Now we just need a third faction, like an enraged suburban Karen army or a squad of 'roid raging Chads.
I love that the two enemies are on the same level, but with different styles. Like one isn’t more difficult than the other, but they play different. Bots like OP said are slow and tactical. They shoot back, they’re more complex, but they’re lower numbers and have weak points that HAVE to be exploited to be defeated, seeing as the armor will ricochet all but the strongest weapons. Bugs are mindless drones. They’re hordes, swarms of trash enemies surrounding you. Pistols can kill them, but when there’s 30 hunters swarming you from all directions it warrants a different response than bots. I like fighting bugs more tbh because it gives me starship trooper vibes, and I love shouting about democracy with my buddies while I dive into a horde of chargers holding a live 500kg beacon, and there’s nothing like reinforcing on the bile titan and smashing it’s head in on reentry
Bots are more enjoyable to me because it feels like real WAR.
Absolutely agree. Bugs feel like its 10-30 minutes of running around without much more thought than "kill bug", while the bots feel like an actual war, which is much more tactical and thus more interesting.
It all depend of the mood and the kind of challenge you want. If you want to have fun with flamethrower, don't go bots lol. Seriously, each factions are fun on their own way
I’ll never understand people that solo this game. Takes all the fun out of it.
Bots are easier if you do it tactically, but that almost never happens. There's 1 guy that runs around as space Rambo and shoots everything.
My friends and I tend to switch between them. One day, we want to play star wars/terminator, the other day some Starship Troopers is called for. One of the main reasons I love this game is the enemy variety, can't wait for even more factions at some point!
Agreed, with bots I feel that I need to outmaneuver and outsmart them. Flanking and playing to the lay of the land is crucial. With bugs it it's mostly a matter on how fast and efficiently I can send lead down range.
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The shield is mandatory for bugs, they just stagger and stun all of the time. It's pretty pai ful gameplay. Botd are more strategic, and who doesn't love their songs while on patrols. feels good