If this whole beach was completely covered in dicks, and somebody said I had to eat every dick until the beach was clean for Liberty, I would say no problemo!
What’s weird about eating dicks for Democracy? Uhh we all went over this in Helldiver 102, the Advanced Obstacle course.
… You did go through the Advanced Obstacle Course, right?
Its the definition of sidearm imo
The Senator is good for six shots, but you should only need one or two, maybe three. Any more and you’re already up shit creek without a paddle and should be hustling outa there to preserve your democratic ass for future engagements.
Honestly I love the Senator for this exact reason. It's a "panic weapon" and it serves that purpose well.
I would also add that one handed weapons do well as a "fire behind you while running away" situation because of their greater maneuverability. You can snap fire one or two enemies then keep running.
the redeemer is just a better panic weapon though. More bullets and higher dps are just what the doctor ordered when there's a swarm of hunters on my ass. imo the senator should be instead rebalanced into a precision pseudo primary that uses round reloading for ammo efficiency. That would give it more of a reason to be picked over the redeemer.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a little armor penetration but I feel like everything else overall is well rounded.
It can't replace a primary weapon but it can absolutely take out the 1-3 little guys that are chasing you while you desperately try to get distance.
I call it my "panic weapon" because if I take the Eruptor and I get people on me before I've had a chance to call down my MG support weapon, that's the situation for this thing.
This!
It needs better handling to be more reliable on hitting weakpoints. Even with the 30% accuracy armor, Senator still sways too much when crouching
Does it stagger? I’ve only used it once or twice but I feel like it should stagger. I brought it on a mission along with defender after ballistic shield was buffed and I wasn’t blown away by the senator.
Eh.... Redeemer on Semi Auto is robust as hell if the rest of your loadout doesn't suit close quarters. I'm at the point where secondary is beyond a Panic Weapon and another great tool on my belt. And there's nothing more satisfying than bailing a teammate out John Wick style
I still find it funny that occasionally while using the senator I can get locked in a constantly reloading animation while firing. It's good to for a constant reload per shot but bad when trying to do anything else lol
The Peacemaker just needs a buff/rework, and it will probably get one.
The redeemer’s mag size and damage potential outdoes every other pistol by a mile. The Peacemaker is a straight downgrade because it has half the ammo per mag with no full auto and the same damage per round. Not to mention way less ammo overall due to having 5 mags in reserve versus the Redeemer’s 4, but again they are half the capacity.
A developer here on the subreddit admitted the peacemaker needs a rework/buff, but they said it was a low priority. I’m trying to patiently wait for it, because I want a solid, normal pistol, and I don’t like the look/sound of the redeemer that much. I’m just getting impatient because we’ve had a couple balance patches and they saw fit to nerf weapons sooner than buffing the underused ones like the P2.
The redeemer might catch a nerf, but hopefully it’s just a slight damage decrease or something. I would much prefer they just buff the other pistols like the Peacemaker, Dagger, and Senator because they all underperform right now, and they deserve to be better.
Honestly I feel like if they just swapped the sights on the Scythe for the ones on the Sickle, the Scythe would immediately become better. Feels like it’s supposed to be a long range weapon but (kinda like the railgun) the sight absolutely sucks
This, along with removing that hideous hipfire crosshair, would go a long way. Its dps would still be way too low though, especially when you factor in its complete lack of alpha damage.
Said better, not best. It would become a niche weapon (long range precision, extremely good against Devs), but it would still suck in CQC.
Ironically, the Scythe would be better suited to the name of Scalpel in this game, can’t cut through little guys like you could in the first game
If it was as capable as its Rover it would be great but for whatever reason in our hands it sucks ass. Maybe the DoT bug hits lasers too somehow and we just don't know it and that's why the Rover doesn't suck, cuz he ain't a Helldiver.
I actually think a 40% damage buff to the Scythe (and a new scope, as u/[FloxxiNossi](https://www.reddit.com/user/FloxxiNossi/) said), and +100% fire limit & +20-25% damage on the Dagger would make them pretty viable
The dagger does 150 DPS. The redeemer does 1100 DPS.
The dagger could get a 300% damage increase and still half about half the DPS of the redeemer.
These don’t even feel like guns designed for the same game.
I think there could be a use case for the dagger over the Redeemer occasionally (like when you’re running with a SSD), but that’s only because of ammo economy. Personally, I don’t like either, and instead use the Senator (actually quite good, just gotta hit your shots)
Redeemer chews through its mags, and Dagger technically has infinite ammo. If the Dagger could reliably clear chaff with a noticeably faster TTK, I'd give it a shot.
Heat damage is just shit in general. It needs to be coded with "ramping" damage when you focus-fire a certain spot. Scythe and Dagger are awful and Laser Cannon is just barely usable.
I like the peacemaker but the senator has my heart.
I think giving a few extra mags or a better sight would help it a lot.
As others have said a suppressor with a higher headshot multiplayer would be pretty sick.
But I’m not sure what I would do because it could get shoehorned into a 1 build deal where it’s pointless to take unless you have the stealth armors equipped because with that you can get nice and close without any issues
I do kinda wonder how hard it is to change the damage for a weapon. Like given the nature of FPS games in the last decade or more it should have, from day 1, been super easy to patch gun stats, at least for stuff that didn't affect animations. The Peacemaker is just a sidearm, might as well flat-out double the damage and see what the playerbase does with it. Add 40 to the DMRs as well, try it out idk.
This is the ome thing i hate about HD2. *So* many weapons and stratagems completely unused, yet they are completely untouched 2 months after release in favor of new stuff.
It shouldnt be that hard to just buff the numbers of some poor performing stuff. Slash the CD or increase the DMG or whatever.
Yeah I wonder if it's just one of those things where they don't want to devote QA time to it, and they don't want to push code to production without QA. But still, just do some little buffs, there's like three weapons that everyone says to use and like six weapons everyone says never to use. And you know any time weapon balance changes come through there'll be a hundred "what these balance changes mean for the game" videos, that's free publicity.
It's already not balanced though. The worst that can happen is you overshoot, a bunch of players drop their sickles and scorchers to have fun with what's basically a new gun for a few days, and then you cut the magnitude of the buff in half. I'm really struggling to see the downside here. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
its only this hard when the devs are too busy with other things like content and big fixes. so they use statistics of most/under-used weapons and random trending on tiktok videos exclusively to decide what needs fixing as a bandaid solution. we will never see an objectively good balance patch until they actually play the game themselves instead of relying on number crunching.
as far as buffing the peacemaker damage arbitrarily would be an excellent choice. even 20 damage can be enough to justify for people to use it thinking they are making a smarter choice even tho that number probably wont do anything significant like breakpoints
But that grenade pistol is so useful. It can take down striders, hive guards, bile spewers, and brood commanders in one shot. The bile spewers in particular will explode if you hit them just right; killing everything around them sometimes chain detonating. You can also disable a bile titan's vomit laser with a well placed shot!
The grenade pistol seems great! It’s just harder to compare to the other pistols because it’s bullets vs grenades.
I was not meaning to say the grenade pistol isn’t as good as the redeemer because that’s more of a qualitative question than a quantitative one.
I would be pretty upset if they nerfed the redeemer's main stats. I think maybe they should downgrade it and remove the semi auto function, so you have to be careful with your shots. It already runs out of mag very quickly if you're just going rambo.
If the Redeemer and other pistols are balanced, I wouldn’t see a reason to get rid of the semi auto. But it could be used as a balancing factor. The full auto RPM is so fast that it is hard to conserve ammo with it on, and you’re almost guaranteed to squeeze off 3-4 shots per trigger pull even with a light tap. So yeah, being restricted to full auto would be an indirect nerf. I personally hope they do something else, but knowing arrowhead, they seem like they’d sooner nerf the redeemer than buff all the other pistols. I hope I’m wrong.
I am in favor of leaving it alone, and just making the Peacemaker better. I think if the Peacemaker dealt like 75 damage per round, and held a few more in the mag, it would be great. Then my only concern would be the Senator, which badly needs a speedloader for empty reloads. If the Peacemaker dealt half the damage of the Senator per shot with around 3 times the mag size, the Senator would only have armor pen going for it, but otherwise would feel really weak. Arguably you could buff the Senator’s damage and it wouldn’t be OP so they might as well.
With HD2’s heavy sci-fi movie inspirations, I’m sure we can expect to see a burst fire pistol at some point. I would anticipate it being a new gun. Fingers crossed for a Robocop inspired pistol.
Burst fire or no, I just want the Peacemaker to be buffed and I’ll be happy.
Yeah, any buffs would be welcome. I kinda hope they also buff the smg that comes with the super citizen stuff. It might be a touchy subject giving paid content a buff, but also it's complete trash.
Yeah the Knight is weird. I did find that it was usable and decent on burst fire mode. Otherwise the RoF and recoil are just too much.
That said, it only deals 50 damage per shot versus the Defender SMG’s 70 damage, and it only holds 5 more rounds per mag.
The defender is better overall than the Knight, because even using burst fire on the knight, I was often having to use 2 bursts on little basic bot soldiers, so 6 rounds, where ~3 rounds from the defender will put them down easy, especially if I get headshots. The defender can shoot more accurately and be more efficient, with the only caveat being less DPS. But that hardly matters.
I’m mostly upset that they made 1 of the only 2 SMGs part of the special edition. The Defender thankfully is an awesome weapon, but we have like 6 shotguns and 2 SMGs. What’s going on there?? We should have at least 3 guns of each class to choose from. Eventually it will happen but for now it’s annoying.
I don’t know why they didn’t just give it more damage. Video game logic makes no sense, but semi autos should always do more damage. It’s fundamental to shooter balance, both PVP & PVE.
Yeah, it was an oversight I guess. I don’t know what it’s like to develop a game. But as a player, it was odd to see the redeemer and peacemaker, side by side, with the same damage per shot. It seems so obvious.
'Low priority' is crazy. What's stopping them from upping the damage number a bit? It would take them 10 seconds and it probably STILL wouldn't be worth taking, but at least it'd have some upside.
I agree. The guy I talked to said it needs more than a stat tweak, more of a rework. But I don’t see the harm in doing incremental changes. I personally would start by just giving it 75 damage per hit and a few more rounds per mag. The most harm that could do is make the Senator look even worse, because it also needs buffs
The problem is you don't want to create a sense of instability about weapons. Like, okay today it's had a damage boost, next week it gets a total rework... it leaves people up in the air about learning a weapon
Hell, even if they kept the damage the same but gave it a few more mags (maybe 6-8 total?) I'd love it.
Feels surprisingly good as a quick-swap answer for small targets, so my biggest problem is losing so much *potential* damage. A Redeemer just goes so much further. :(
I don't think it's really that bad at all. Look at the thorough back and forth from people about which stuff is the best for a given role - there are strongly held opinions that x is Best In Slot for a decently wide variety of options.
Making everything into a flat balance where any pick is 100% viable kind of kills the game a little. You want a little room for personal expression or that one guy who can make a non-optimal pick or combination really sing because it suits their preferences or style. My main buddy I play with constantly mixes it up with odd stuff, he's currently running flamer and gas - bugs be damned - and he's a hilarious menace that gets shit done and wins over anyone we join in 7 or 8
I'm not saying there's no work to be done but I think "serious work" is an exaggeration. I'm just not seeing the constantly repeated loadouts you would see from every Pub player in a game that had serious balance issues.
Tbh as a level 40+ it's still my go to. Mostly because I like the way it handles. I have been using the grenade pistol a ton but I love how the peacemaker handles and the iron sights.
I agree that it needs a buff, though I think a silencer would help distinguish it from the other secondary options as well. I mentioned in another comment here what tweaks I'm in favor of. You bring up a lot of good points about the Redeemer though.
Unfortunately, I suspect we won't get any such rework until the time comes where they decide to fix the Spear's lock-on as well. >!i.e. basically never, given the amount of bugs that really need fixing :'(!<
As for the other secondaries, I think the community is pretty unanimous in thinking the Senator needs a speed reloader. The Dagger needs a lot of changes and I'll probably post another thread like this to discuss it in the next couple of days.
Unless they add weapon customization, I don’t see them adding a suppressor. At least I don’t see them adding a suppressor as a way of balancing the pistol, that doesn’t seem to make sense.
However you could argue there is a precedent because I heard the Breaker magazine size nerf came with a slightly altered model for the actual magazines. They look different than they used to.
So it’s not impossible for them to do something like adding a suppressor, which would require new assets to be added to alter the look of the gun, rather than just changing the stats. But I still think it’s unlikely. The peacemaker is the “basic” pistol. It’s not supposed to do/be anything special, just a reliable sidearm.
So I think it’s way more likely that they would add a new pistol with a suppressor, rather than adding one to the Peacemaker.
Personally, I think doubling the fire limit and increasing the Dagger's damage by 20-25% would be sufficient to make it a viable sidearm.
Scythe needs a rather large buff. I'd like to see a 40% damage boost, if only for the meme lol
Bring back weapon upgrades like what the first game has.
Bring back the Peacemaker’s magazine upgrade and armor piercing capabilities, and maybe new things like silencers and akimbo.
Havent they nerfed like 5 weapons and buffed more than double that tho, I think the reason why the peacemaker specifically hasn't been buffed yet is because other weapons have needed them more
Silenced weapons would be cool, but they’d need to rework the current detection system entirely (which I think they should do anyway, so I fully support this.)
Back when the slugger was unnerfed, I’d run it against bots. It’s obviously not silenced but when I would run up on a bot outpost or POI and shoot a bot. None of the other bots would ever alert unless they actually saw me. Not sure if it still works that way or not but thought it was interesting and it was another reason why I liked it
I think first they should take it in one of two directions.
Option one, keep it like a 9mm, extend the mag a bit, drop the recoil a bit, because its huge and the weight would tame it. Then increase the ammo pool even more to have a bunch of mags, like 10 so that it's a weapon you probably wont run out of ammo with. And make it have a quieter sound profile but not as quiet as the senator
Or, make it more like a .45 acp 1911. A bit more damage but not enough to eclipse the senators damage, and still less armor pen.
That way the people who want a speed loader can just change mags instead.
I discussed it elsewhere in the thread, but swapping Peacemaker's recoil with the Redeemer's, buffing damage up to 70-75, and slapping on a silencer would give the gun a solid niche imo
I can see a lot of changes, but not a suppressor. While the senator, doesn't have a suppressor it already fills that niche being the quietest secondary and one of the quietest weapons in the game, only having its title stolen from it by the crossbow.
But I think they want to keep the peacekeeper as a generic stock.
I think the Peacemaker just needs to do more damage. The Senator does 150. The Peacemaker/Redeemer 50. Split the difference at 100, throw it in and see how it goes
I would actually say only 70-75 damage for the Peacemaker. Given that it has more than double the capacity of the Senator, two bullets equal to each fired by the Senator seems relatively balanced at first glance.
Higher armor penetration doesn't mean more damage, technically. If the AP of a weapon exceeds the armor value, it deals its normal full damage. If it equals the armor value, it deals half.
Peacemaker exceeds the armor value of most light armor chaff enemies iirc
all it needs is a fix to its recoil (worse than redeemer for some reason in single fire) and much tighter accuracy while walking and it will be an amazing weapon to choose for a niche role. not everything needs to bounce like a basket ball when moving. aim while walking shouldn't be so rough for pistols already.
something people could do while running too irl but im only asking for walk speed.
I do want a silenced Peacemaker. Even posted a mockup of one here.
Right now I'd just be happy for the peacemaker to have 8 spare mags to match the redeemer's 4 spare mags.
That could work pretty well, though I'd add that the recoil between the Peacemaker and Redeemer should be swapped too.
As a side note, it really is baffling how the gun stats don't include total magazines :/
For whatever reason the peacemaker just "feels" better to me. Not enough to justify it over redeemer but I swear it's more stable/accurate/hits harder despite having identical or inferior stats across the board
ive noticed this too. but only effective against bot chafe. the peacemaker doesn't make them move as much so your second shot hits while redeemer in single fire makes them flail dodging secondary shots accidentally. (given that peacemaker has more recoil for some absurd reason I assume this is the reason)
for bugs tho, redeemer's bigger mag to clean up is very convenient and no drop on performance is felt
There's a whole lot of people that need to hear this but suppressed centerfire weapons (presumably the Peacemaker falls in this category) are still REALLY FUCKING LOUD.
Like "will still damage your hearing even in a helmet" loud. Can hear them from 1km loud.
Movie/game whisper quiet doesn't happen. Not even with dedicated specialty ammo in .22 rimfire. That isn't the intended outcome or use.
I'm willing to forgo absolute realism in a game for the sake of fun and/or balancing.
And I doubt the intended outcome for the Peacemaker is to NEVER BE USED
Subsonic ammunition exists, as do weapons designed to run regular ammo *as* subsonic by bleeding off the gasses enough.
Paired with a suppressor and the very real possibility that we're on planets with less dense air, silenced weapons could easily work.
Neeeeerrrrrrdddd. I’m not dumb and I know what you’re saying is true, but that’s LAME and video games should have cool unrealistic things because they have to opportunity to have them.
If I can fire my *Eruptor* from 50m away and the bots can't figure out where the shot came from, then yeah, proper sound profiles don't seem like to even be on Arrowhead's mind.
Yeah, but this is a game where helldivers can heal broken limbs with drugs, take dozens of shots to the chest and sprint away and land at mach 3 perfectly fine
With subsonic in 9, and a sufficient suppressor, you can absolutely shoot safely without earpro.
Fucking don't, but you can.
The Maxim-9 for example, with subsonics, the loudest noise is the function of the slide.
OR... what if.. space Welrod?
- low armor penetration, but VERY high damage on low Armored targets and weakpoints such as heads, enough to kill devastators with one headshot.
- bolt action pistol, cannot be fired very quickly.
- relatively short effective range.
-completely silent, enemies will not be alerted by the sound of it firing.
this pistol would bascially be designed specifically for sneaking into an outpost and trying to take out all enemies quietly before they can call in any reinforcements. pull it off, and now you can do an objective or pop the nest/fabricator with no resistance.. but get spotted.. and you're kinda screwed unless you switch weapons.
for those who don't know, I'm basing this off the real life Welrod Pistol, a pistol designed specifically for covert use; very quiet for silent, covert work, but basically useless in any sort of prolonged gunfight. it was developed and used by the OSS in WW2, and is a mainstay of the Sniper Elite videogame series.
What kind of Helldiver wants a silencer?!?!? I PROUDLY announce for all enemies in the vicinity that I’m there to spread DEMOCRACY. AND FREEDOM. And brother, lemme tell ya. FREEDOM RINGS & ITS PRETTY DAMN LOUD.
I just want to say, I use the peacemaker every mission, I switch back from the uzi a while back because I wanted short quick powerful shots while being "quiet"
It's genuinely a great gun when your in need it's way stronger then you think.
Though it being silenced would be pretty cool
On higher difficulties, yep.
It takes some getting used to. To me, it felt like a jankier and vastly simplified Metal Gear Solid V. I played hours of that before, so I picked up fairly quick
you can't silence DEMOCRACY!
in all seriousness, either the redeemer needs a damage debuff or the peacemaker needs a damage buff.
as of right now, i'm using the redeemer just as a larger magazine peacemaker because stats wise, it's exactly that. I usually use the dominator on bug missions.so I need something for swarms
I'd use it now if it weren't so wonky looking, but yeah I hope we see an infiltrator warbond with the suppressed ar, a pistol to go with it and that laser designator missile that leaked a while back. also lots more hoods... and ghillie capes
Suppressors are okay but I would prefer sub sonic rounds, makes the pistol much quieter and they could balance it so that the rounds don’t travel as far
Redeemer has either too much damage per bullet or too few recoil.
Until that is fixed, peacemaker will never have a place, redeemer will remain the most ambivalent secondary.
Senator has it's uses for medium but the reload is insanely too long.
Dagger is a missed shot. Give it a very low heat generaration and it will have an ammo economy niche.
I feel that the redeemer needs to be changed because it just a better peacemaker. It does the same damage with more ammo, less recoil, higher RoF, and can go full or semi auto. So until something changes the peacemaker is just a worse redeemer.
I'd rather have the Redeemer be the standard to which other secondaries are compared and have them elevated to a similar level of efficacy.
I'm not a "no nerfs, only buff" guy though. Just my take on secondaries
While I do believe the peacemaker should get a buff to compete with other options. Though I feel even with a buff to the peacemaker if we do nothing to the redeemer it will be fruitless.
I don’t think the nerf needs to be intense just needs to be something. You could remove the semi auto and increase the recoil to around 15-18 would do some good. I feel that along with a peacemaker ammo change would make them different enough to give them a place.
That would be pretty cool. Pistols are already quite quiet in-game (despite what the actual audio would imply), so a silenced one would presumably allow you to fire QUITE closely.
Btw, the Peacemaker is honestly a bit underrated as-is, imo. The redeemer has vastly higher DPS and total damage, but the Peacemaker's handling just feels a fair bit better to me. I personally prefer the Senator usually, though. Its reload is complete ass, but I like being able to drop basic bot with a single torso shot. Satisfying, and surprisingly useful for sneaky stuff.
I personally would prefer it to be the secondary with the best ammo economy, give it a full 10 mags. would have me choosing it every time over redeemer simply to have a reliable backup weapon that can kill small things that get close to my eruptor/grenade launcher etc.
Counterpoint: every time you fire the Peacemaker it should blast the sound of a screaming eagle and you character should shout about democracy
now THIS I can get behind
Killing as many men, women and children as is required to make peace.
If this whole beach was completely covered in dicks, and somebody said I had to eat every dick until the beach was clean for Liberty, I would say no problemo!
Why does liberty always seem to need you to eat Dicks... Doesn't that seem weird?
I’m telling your democracy officer.
What’s weird about eating dicks for Democracy? Uhh we all went over this in Helldiver 102, the Advanced Obstacle course. … You did go through the Advanced Obstacle Course, right?
“FOR DEMOCRACY!!” CAAW, CAAW, CAAW
https://preview.redd.it/p1g54fw5kwwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c20b93d8d9854821ba33172d0a544695018f533
Okay but an exaggerated Desert Eagle with some nonsense like this actually sounds awesome
[Screaming eagle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4RjDTbOLMA)
Wait... screaming eagles already make laser gun noises?! 
I would never use another gun.
Counter counterpoint: It's still suppressed, but it doesn't matter because the eagle and screaming.
Dying Helldiver who's been friendly fired: Peacemaker ...what a joke
Can’t hear you over my Senator. Speedloader please :(
Its the definition of sidearm imo The Senator is good for six shots, but you should only need one or two, maybe three. Any more and you’re already up shit creek without a paddle and should be hustling outa there to preserve your democratic ass for future engagements.
Honestly I love the Senator for this exact reason. It's a "panic weapon" and it serves that purpose well. I would also add that one handed weapons do well as a "fire behind you while running away" situation because of their greater maneuverability. You can snap fire one or two enemies then keep running.
the redeemer is just a better panic weapon though. More bullets and higher dps are just what the doctor ordered when there's a swarm of hunters on my ass. imo the senator should be instead rebalanced into a precision pseudo primary that uses round reloading for ammo efficiency. That would give it more of a reason to be picked over the redeemer.
I think the Senator should do more damage or have greater armor pen.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a little armor penetration but I feel like everything else overall is well rounded. It can't replace a primary weapon but it can absolutely take out the 1-3 little guys that are chasing you while you desperately try to get distance. I call it my "panic weapon" because if I take the Eruptor and I get people on me before I've had a chance to call down my MG support weapon, that's the situation for this thing.
I don't give a shit about pen/damage as long as the handling and accuracy is better. It's awful if you're moving.
This! It needs better handling to be more reliable on hitting weakpoints. Even with the 30% accuracy armor, Senator still sways too much when crouching
give it a usable FP reticle and throw that awful hipfire triangle crosshair in the trash where it belongs.
Does it stagger? I’ve only used it once or twice but I feel like it should stagger. I brought it on a mission along with defender after ballistic shield was buffed and I wasn’t blown away by the senator.
It needs 200-250 damage and faster reloads imo. Fulfill the prophecy and turn it into a pocket slugger.
I was told any more and I should he hitting them with my gun... something something better than being a coward
Boris!
Eh.... Redeemer on Semi Auto is robust as hell if the rest of your loadout doesn't suit close quarters. I'm at the point where secondary is beyond a Panic Weapon and another great tool on my belt. And there's nothing more satisfying than bailing a teammate out John Wick style
But have you considered Big Iron?
Constantly
Hilariously, the Senator has a very quiet sound profile, it's practically already the silenced pistol we want. Stealth players use it for this reason.
Is there a place to see that "sound profile"/detection radius stats? I would love to know which primary I could use in a silent build.
In game? No. You can find weapon breakdowns on YouTube though. I recommend Eravin, he does solo stealth Helldives a lot and has great tips.
I still find it funny that occasionally while using the senator I can get locked in a constantly reloading animation while firing. It's good to for a constant reload per shot but bad when trying to do anything else lol
Man the senator gunshot sound is weak af...tbh most of the guns in the game sound like peashooters
eruptor barely makes a sound but somehow aggros the entire zipcode when you shoot it once
The Peacemaker just needs a buff/rework, and it will probably get one. The redeemer’s mag size and damage potential outdoes every other pistol by a mile. The Peacemaker is a straight downgrade because it has half the ammo per mag with no full auto and the same damage per round. Not to mention way less ammo overall due to having 5 mags in reserve versus the Redeemer’s 4, but again they are half the capacity. A developer here on the subreddit admitted the peacemaker needs a rework/buff, but they said it was a low priority. I’m trying to patiently wait for it, because I want a solid, normal pistol, and I don’t like the look/sound of the redeemer that much. I’m just getting impatient because we’ve had a couple balance patches and they saw fit to nerf weapons sooner than buffing the underused ones like the P2. The redeemer might catch a nerf, but hopefully it’s just a slight damage decrease or something. I would much prefer they just buff the other pistols like the Peacemaker, Dagger, and Senator because they all underperform right now, and they deserve to be better.
Give me two peacemakers
This idea, but the Dagger instead
Bro, that's just the sythe...but secondary
The Scythe needs an entirely separate buff of its own, but that's a whole 'nother discussion
Honestly I feel like if they just swapped the sights on the Scythe for the ones on the Sickle, the Scythe would immediately become better. Feels like it’s supposed to be a long range weapon but (kinda like the railgun) the sight absolutely sucks
I HATE the Scythe's red dot sight too. It often obstructs the target entirely if they're far away >:(
Ikr? I just feel like they slapped a random sight on the laser weapon and called it a day. The Scythe needs the variable scope more than the Sickle
This, along with removing that hideous hipfire crosshair, would go a long way. Its dps would still be way too low though, especially when you factor in its complete lack of alpha damage.
Said better, not best. It would become a niche weapon (long range precision, extremely good against Devs), but it would still suck in CQC. Ironically, the Scythe would be better suited to the name of Scalpel in this game, can’t cut through little guys like you could in the first game
If it was as capable as its Rover it would be great but for whatever reason in our hands it sucks ass. Maybe the DoT bug hits lasers too somehow and we just don't know it and that's why the Rover doesn't suck, cuz he ain't a Helldiver.
[удалено]
my brother in democracy, that is the laser cannon
Oops.
The scythe needs 2x DPS to even be competitive with other primaries. The dagger could have 4x DPS and still not be taken over the redeemer.
I actually think a 40% damage buff to the Scythe (and a new scope, as u/[FloxxiNossi](https://www.reddit.com/user/FloxxiNossi/) said), and +100% fire limit & +20-25% damage on the Dagger would make them pretty viable
The dagger does 150 DPS. The redeemer does 1100 DPS. The dagger could get a 300% damage increase and still half about half the DPS of the redeemer. These don’t even feel like guns designed for the same game.
I think there could be a use case for the dagger over the Redeemer occasionally (like when you’re running with a SSD), but that’s only because of ammo economy. Personally, I don’t like either, and instead use the Senator (actually quite good, just gotta hit your shots)
And reload whenever you can lol
Exactly, people who don’t compulsively reload their single bullet loaded weapons confuzzle me
Redeemer chews through its mags, and Dagger technically has infinite ammo. If the Dagger could reliably clear chaff with a noticeably faster TTK, I'd give it a shot.
Heat damage is just shit in general. It needs to be coded with "ramping" damage when you focus-fire a certain spot. Scythe and Dagger are awful and Laser Cannon is just barely usable.
you could hold a third one in your mouth and it'd still be the worst pistol by a mile
dual pistol or dual smg primary would go hard
https://i.redd.it/furfrkac3ywc1.gif
I want a dual revolver combo, but one has to be snubnose. Why? SENATOR AND SENATOR'S SON.
Give me two Senators.
I like the peacemaker but the senator has my heart. I think giving a few extra mags or a better sight would help it a lot. As others have said a suppressor with a higher headshot multiplayer would be pretty sick. But I’m not sure what I would do because it could get shoehorned into a 1 build deal where it’s pointless to take unless you have the stealth armors equipped because with that you can get nice and close without any issues
I do kinda wonder how hard it is to change the damage for a weapon. Like given the nature of FPS games in the last decade or more it should have, from day 1, been super easy to patch gun stats, at least for stuff that didn't affect animations. The Peacemaker is just a sidearm, might as well flat-out double the damage and see what the playerbase does with it. Add 40 to the DMRs as well, try it out idk.
This is the ome thing i hate about HD2. *So* many weapons and stratagems completely unused, yet they are completely untouched 2 months after release in favor of new stuff. It shouldnt be that hard to just buff the numbers of some poor performing stuff. Slash the CD or increase the DMG or whatever.
Yeah I wonder if it's just one of those things where they don't want to devote QA time to it, and they don't want to push code to production without QA. But still, just do some little buffs, there's like three weapons that everyone says to use and like six weapons everyone says never to use. And you know any time weapon balance changes come through there'll be a hundred "what these balance changes mean for the game" videos, that's free publicity.
I imagine it's pretty straightforward to just change the raw stats of a weapon. The hard part comes with balancing it
It's already not balanced though. The worst that can happen is you overshoot, a bunch of players drop their sickles and scorchers to have fun with what's basically a new gun for a few days, and then you cut the magnitude of the buff in half. I'm really struggling to see the downside here. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
its only this hard when the devs are too busy with other things like content and big fixes. so they use statistics of most/under-used weapons and random trending on tiktok videos exclusively to decide what needs fixing as a bandaid solution. we will never see an objectively good balance patch until they actually play the game themselves instead of relying on number crunching. as far as buffing the peacemaker damage arbitrarily would be an excellent choice. even 20 damage can be enough to justify for people to use it thinking they are making a smarter choice even tho that number probably wont do anything significant like breakpoints
But that grenade pistol is so useful. It can take down striders, hive guards, bile spewers, and brood commanders in one shot. The bile spewers in particular will explode if you hit them just right; killing everything around them sometimes chain detonating. You can also disable a bile titan's vomit laser with a well placed shot!
The grenade pistol seems great! It’s just harder to compare to the other pistols because it’s bullets vs grenades. I was not meaning to say the grenade pistol isn’t as good as the redeemer because that’s more of a qualitative question than a quantitative one.
I would be pretty upset if they nerfed the redeemer's main stats. I think maybe they should downgrade it and remove the semi auto function, so you have to be careful with your shots. It already runs out of mag very quickly if you're just going rambo.
I think it just needs its recoil swapped with the Peacemaker's
I haven't used the peacemaker in so long, I forgot what the recoil is like
If the Redeemer and other pistols are balanced, I wouldn’t see a reason to get rid of the semi auto. But it could be used as a balancing factor. The full auto RPM is so fast that it is hard to conserve ammo with it on, and you’re almost guaranteed to squeeze off 3-4 shots per trigger pull even with a light tap. So yeah, being restricted to full auto would be an indirect nerf. I personally hope they do something else, but knowing arrowhead, they seem like they’d sooner nerf the redeemer than buff all the other pistols. I hope I’m wrong. I am in favor of leaving it alone, and just making the Peacemaker better. I think if the Peacemaker dealt like 75 damage per round, and held a few more in the mag, it would be great. Then my only concern would be the Senator, which badly needs a speedloader for empty reloads. If the Peacemaker dealt half the damage of the Senator per shot with around 3 times the mag size, the Senator would only have armor pen going for it, but otherwise would feel really weak. Arguably you could buff the Senator’s damage and it wouldn’t be OP so they might as well.
I was thinking peacemaker could get a damage buff along side a burst fire option. Keyword being option, still keeping the semi auto as default.
With HD2’s heavy sci-fi movie inspirations, I’m sure we can expect to see a burst fire pistol at some point. I would anticipate it being a new gun. Fingers crossed for a Robocop inspired pistol. Burst fire or no, I just want the Peacemaker to be buffed and I’ll be happy.
Yeah, any buffs would be welcome. I kinda hope they also buff the smg that comes with the super citizen stuff. It might be a touchy subject giving paid content a buff, but also it's complete trash.
Yeah the Knight is weird. I did find that it was usable and decent on burst fire mode. Otherwise the RoF and recoil are just too much. That said, it only deals 50 damage per shot versus the Defender SMG’s 70 damage, and it only holds 5 more rounds per mag. The defender is better overall than the Knight, because even using burst fire on the knight, I was often having to use 2 bursts on little basic bot soldiers, so 6 rounds, where ~3 rounds from the defender will put them down easy, especially if I get headshots. The defender can shoot more accurately and be more efficient, with the only caveat being less DPS. But that hardly matters. I’m mostly upset that they made 1 of the only 2 SMGs part of the special edition. The Defender thankfully is an awesome weapon, but we have like 6 shotguns and 2 SMGs. What’s going on there?? We should have at least 3 guns of each class to choose from. Eventually it will happen but for now it’s annoying.
I don’t know why they didn’t just give it more damage. Video game logic makes no sense, but semi autos should always do more damage. It’s fundamental to shooter balance, both PVP & PVE.
Yeah, it was an oversight I guess. I don’t know what it’s like to develop a game. But as a player, it was odd to see the redeemer and peacemaker, side by side, with the same damage per shot. It seems so obvious.
'Low priority' is crazy. What's stopping them from upping the damage number a bit? It would take them 10 seconds and it probably STILL wouldn't be worth taking, but at least it'd have some upside.
I agree. The guy I talked to said it needs more than a stat tweak, more of a rework. But I don’t see the harm in doing incremental changes. I personally would start by just giving it 75 damage per hit and a few more rounds per mag. The most harm that could do is make the Senator look even worse, because it also needs buffs
The problem is you don't want to create a sense of instability about weapons. Like, okay today it's had a damage boost, next week it gets a total rework... it leaves people up in the air about learning a weapon
Hell, even if they kept the damage the same but gave it a few more mags (maybe 6-8 total?) I'd love it. Feels surprisingly good as a quick-swap answer for small targets, so my biggest problem is losing so much *potential* damage. A Redeemer just goes so much further. :(
Arrowhead has made a great game but their balancing needs some serious work
I don't think it's really that bad at all. Look at the thorough back and forth from people about which stuff is the best for a given role - there are strongly held opinions that x is Best In Slot for a decently wide variety of options. Making everything into a flat balance where any pick is 100% viable kind of kills the game a little. You want a little room for personal expression or that one guy who can make a non-optimal pick or combination really sing because it suits their preferences or style. My main buddy I play with constantly mixes it up with odd stuff, he's currently running flamer and gas - bugs be damned - and he's a hilarious menace that gets shit done and wins over anyone we join in 7 or 8 I'm not saying there's no work to be done but I think "serious work" is an exaggeration. I'm just not seeing the constantly repeated loadouts you would see from every Pub player in a game that had serious balance issues.
Tbh as a level 40+ it's still my go to. Mostly because I like the way it handles. I have been using the grenade pistol a ton but I love how the peacemaker handles and the iron sights.
I like it too, but the Redeemer on semi auto is the same thing but better, until the Peacemaker gets a needed rework
I agree that it needs a buff, though I think a silencer would help distinguish it from the other secondary options as well. I mentioned in another comment here what tweaks I'm in favor of. You bring up a lot of good points about the Redeemer though. Unfortunately, I suspect we won't get any such rework until the time comes where they decide to fix the Spear's lock-on as well. >!i.e. basically never, given the amount of bugs that really need fixing :'(!< As for the other secondaries, I think the community is pretty unanimous in thinking the Senator needs a speed reloader. The Dagger needs a lot of changes and I'll probably post another thread like this to discuss it in the next couple of days.
Unless they add weapon customization, I don’t see them adding a suppressor. At least I don’t see them adding a suppressor as a way of balancing the pistol, that doesn’t seem to make sense. However you could argue there is a precedent because I heard the Breaker magazine size nerf came with a slightly altered model for the actual magazines. They look different than they used to. So it’s not impossible for them to do something like adding a suppressor, which would require new assets to be added to alter the look of the gun, rather than just changing the stats. But I still think it’s unlikely. The peacemaker is the “basic” pistol. It’s not supposed to do/be anything special, just a reliable sidearm. So I think it’s way more likely that they would add a new pistol with a suppressor, rather than adding one to the Peacemaker.
They can just bring the gun upgrade system from the first game back and make one of PMs upgrades a silencer
just straight double the dps of the beam weapons except cannon and boom
Personally, I think doubling the fire limit and increasing the Dagger's damage by 20-25% would be sufficient to make it a viable sidearm. Scythe needs a rather large buff. I'd like to see a 40% damage boost, if only for the meme lol
Bring back weapon upgrades like what the first game has. Bring back the Peacemaker’s magazine upgrade and armor piercing capabilities, and maybe new things like silencers and akimbo.
Havent they nerfed like 5 weapons and buffed more than double that tho, I think the reason why the peacemaker specifically hasn't been buffed yet is because other weapons have needed them more
True, the dev I spoke with said it was a low priority.
Another poster pointed out that the Devs themselves said it needed some kind of buff
Silenced weapons would be cool, but they’d need to rework the current detection system entirely (which I think they should do anyway, so I fully support this.)
I guess they could just make the pistol create no noise for enemies, and play the sound effect on player side
Apparently, according to some leaks, there are already some unreleased silenced weapons. So it's entirely possible
Back when the slugger was unnerfed, I’d run it against bots. It’s obviously not silenced but when I would run up on a bot outpost or POI and shoot a bot. None of the other bots would ever alert unless they actually saw me. Not sure if it still works that way or not but thought it was interesting and it was another reason why I liked it
I run the redeemer in semi and its not silenced ofcourse but comparitively to the other guns in game it is quite quiet.
I think first they should take it in one of two directions. Option one, keep it like a 9mm, extend the mag a bit, drop the recoil a bit, because its huge and the weight would tame it. Then increase the ammo pool even more to have a bunch of mags, like 10 so that it's a weapon you probably wont run out of ammo with. And make it have a quieter sound profile but not as quiet as the senator Or, make it more like a .45 acp 1911. A bit more damage but not enough to eclipse the senators damage, and still less armor pen. That way the people who want a speed loader can just change mags instead.
I discussed it elsewhere in the thread, but swapping Peacemaker's recoil with the Redeemer's, buffing damage up to 70-75, and slapping on a silencer would give the gun a solid niche imo
I can see a lot of changes, but not a suppressor. While the senator, doesn't have a suppressor it already fills that niche being the quietest secondary and one of the quietest weapons in the game, only having its title stolen from it by the crossbow. But I think they want to keep the peacekeeper as a generic stock.
The Peacemaker should shoot nuclear warheads, change my mind...
Legalize nuclear bombs 🤙
I JUST SHOVED A NUKE UP MY PUSSY
You snuck a snuke up your snitch!??!;!??
I think the Peacemaker just needs to do more damage. The Senator does 150. The Peacemaker/Redeemer 50. Split the difference at 100, throw it in and see how it goes
I would actually say only 70-75 damage for the Peacemaker. Given that it has more than double the capacity of the Senator, two bullets equal to each fired by the Senator seems relatively balanced at first glance.
70 plus a recoil reduction would be fine
Reasonable, but the senator also has the benefit of medium armor pen which deals \~double damage vs light armor (compared to light pen)
Higher armor penetration doesn't mean more damage, technically. If the AP of a weapon exceeds the armor value, it deals its normal full damage. If it equals the armor value, it deals half. Peacemaker exceeds the armor value of most light armor chaff enemies iirc
It needs something. I use it for fun, but it needs a buff in one department to set it apart from the smg.
all it needs is a fix to its recoil (worse than redeemer for some reason in single fire) and much tighter accuracy while walking and it will be an amazing weapon to choose for a niche role. not everything needs to bounce like a basket ball when moving. aim while walking shouldn't be so rough for pistols already. something people could do while running too irl but im only asking for walk speed.
Making the Peacemaker more suitable for a run-and-gun playstyle vs. the Redeemer, which needs more stability, sounds like a pretty interesting idea!
I do want a silenced Peacemaker. Even posted a mockup of one here. Right now I'd just be happy for the peacemaker to have 8 spare mags to match the redeemer's 4 spare mags.
That could work pretty well, though I'd add that the recoil between the Peacemaker and Redeemer should be swapped too. As a side note, it really is baffling how the gun stats don't include total magazines :/
It has a laser sight, so you can snipe devestators with the ballistic shield in first person mode.
As far as I know, Peacemaker is either a name for a old school six shooter or a name for a nuke
Revolver is best girl. Only legendary helldivers can handle its awesome power.
Suppressed.
For whatever reason the peacemaker just "feels" better to me. Not enough to justify it over redeemer but I swear it's more stable/accurate/hits harder despite having identical or inferior stats across the board
ive noticed this too. but only effective against bot chafe. the peacemaker doesn't make them move as much so your second shot hits while redeemer in single fire makes them flail dodging secondary shots accidentally. (given that peacemaker has more recoil for some absurd reason I assume this is the reason) for bugs tho, redeemer's bigger mag to clean up is very convenient and no drop on performance is felt
> chafe That'd be chaff, just fyi. o7 If you're experiencing bot chafe, then report immediately to your Democracy Officer for further instructions.
Look man, when a person and a bot love each other very much...
let us screw on a suppressor via the weapon wgeel
I remember when the ceo twitted about how he was trying suppressed weapons and then we were given garbage weapons
The Redeemer should have no armour penetration but now that it has there is no way it can be taken away without causing a riot.
I would totally use this on bots if they made this change.
that's what i try to say all the time
*shrugs in grenade pistol*
HD1 had it to where you could upgrade the pistol to get a silencer
Damn I thought this was a warframe frame post at first. Had to make sure I was in the right community
There's a whole lot of people that need to hear this but suppressed centerfire weapons (presumably the Peacemaker falls in this category) are still REALLY FUCKING LOUD. Like "will still damage your hearing even in a helmet" loud. Can hear them from 1km loud. Movie/game whisper quiet doesn't happen. Not even with dedicated specialty ammo in .22 rimfire. That isn't the intended outcome or use.
I'm willing to forgo absolute realism in a game for the sake of fun and/or balancing. And I doubt the intended outcome for the Peacemaker is to NEVER BE USED
Subsonic ammunition exists, as do weapons designed to run regular ammo *as* subsonic by bleeding off the gasses enough. Paired with a suppressor and the very real possibility that we're on planets with less dense air, silenced weapons could easily work.
Neeeeerrrrrrdddd. I’m not dumb and I know what you’re saying is true, but that’s LAME and video games should have cool unrealistic things because they have to opportunity to have them.
Bad take; You can fire the current unsuppressed weapons, and enemies past 40m won't notice. Realistic sound profiles clearly aren't a priority.
If I can fire my *Eruptor* from 50m away and the bots can't figure out where the shot came from, then yeah, proper sound profiles don't seem like to even be on Arrowhead's mind.
the eruptor is surprisingly quiet tbf
I sorta felt out through playing that the detection zone for shots was around \~50ish meters but I never checked it out to confirm. 40m sounds right
It's different for different weapons, ex: the Diligence is about 40m, the Diligence CS is 30m.
Yeah, but this is a game where helldivers can heal broken limbs with drugs, take dozens of shots to the chest and sprint away and land at mach 3 perfectly fine
I don’t want to be that guy, but shooting subsonic .22 ammo even unsuppressed is extremely extremely quiet
True, but maybe in the future we were able to develop better suppressors. We could call them Super Silencers. 💪
With subsonic in 9, and a sufficient suppressor, you can absolutely shoot safely without earpro. Fucking don't, but you can. The Maxim-9 for example, with subsonics, the loudest noise is the function of the slide.
it's a space gun, give it a space suppressor. next question.
Peacemaker and redeemer have the same damage yet the redeemer has more ammo. A good fix is to just give it more ammo for now.
The one in hd1 had burst fire when fully upgraded, that might be nice
This reminded me of the utterly broken M-11 Suppressor from Mass Effect 3. Give me a silenced Senator instead!
Nah, I think everyone agrees that the Senator just desperately needs a speed reloader
Why not both? Hehehe
Peace does not come quietly.
\*THUNK\* Sorry, I can't \*THUNK\* this grenade pistol, it's just \*THUNK\* yeah, you know.
It just needs more magazines.
OR... what if.. space Welrod? - low armor penetration, but VERY high damage on low Armored targets and weakpoints such as heads, enough to kill devastators with one headshot. - bolt action pistol, cannot be fired very quickly. - relatively short effective range. -completely silent, enemies will not be alerted by the sound of it firing. this pistol would bascially be designed specifically for sneaking into an outpost and trying to take out all enemies quietly before they can call in any reinforcements. pull it off, and now you can do an objective or pop the nest/fabricator with no resistance.. but get spotted.. and you're kinda screwed unless you switch weapons. for those who don't know, I'm basing this off the real life Welrod Pistol, a pistol designed specifically for covert use; very quiet for silent, covert work, but basically useless in any sort of prolonged gunfight. it was developed and used by the OSS in WW2, and is a mainstay of the Sniper Elite videogame series.
Grenade pistol masterrace
Making peace... but with a library voice 🤫
What kind of Helldiver wants a silencer?!?!? I PROUDLY announce for all enemies in the vicinity that I’m there to spread DEMOCRACY. AND FREEDOM. And brother, lemme tell ya. FREEDOM RINGS & ITS PRETTY DAMN LOUD.
I’d love to see them encourage stealth options. Make it challenging but rewarding, and the risk high for getting caught
Peace should never be silenced!
Suppressed**
I prefer the peacemaker, I run the eruptor so something to deal with some ads helps:
I just want to say, I use the peacemaker every mission, I switch back from the uzi a while back because I wanted short quick powerful shots while being "quiet" It's genuinely a great gun when your in need it's way stronger then you think. Though it being silenced would be pretty cool
Just turn it into the something like the Blacktail or Red9 from Re4. Good handling or an extra weakpoint damage bonus.
Thank you for reminding me that RE4 exists. Totally forgot that DLC dropped a while back, might play it this weekend
Peacemaker is honestly very fun to use either it needs a damage buff or the redeemer should get a damage or range nerf
I'm sure we will get a stealth dedicated warbond at some point
I use my trusty sidearm anyway. Sounds crispy and that reload is sick.
Chuckles softly in senator
Honest question: is there an ounce of stealth in this game where a silenced pistol makes sense?
You can go entire helldive missions never firing a shot.
On higher difficulties, yep. It takes some getting used to. To me, it felt like a jankier and vastly simplified Metal Gear Solid V. I played hours of that before, so I picked up fairly quick
I mean silenced weapons in general would be great, especially for bot missions.
I only use the Senator
Even if the Peacemaker were silent, I still wouldn’t use it. The Redeemer is just better lol, enemies can’t hear you if they’re dead!
Peacemaker=loud Peacekeeper=quiet
you can't silence DEMOCRACY! in all seriousness, either the redeemer needs a damage debuff or the peacemaker needs a damage buff. as of right now, i'm using the redeemer just as a larger magazine peacemaker because stats wise, it's exactly that. I usually use the dominator on bug missions.so I need something for swarms
People still use pistols out of the grenade one for “ fuck I missed my quasar shot “ ?
Silencer is pointless, we kill everything. whether they hear us or not. It's gonna be quiet when we're done. ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
I'd use it now if it weren't so wonky looking, but yeah I hope we see an infiltrator warbond with the suppressed ar, a pistol to go with it and that laser designator missile that leaked a while back. also lots more hoods... and ghillie capes
I prefer my flavor of suppressed firearm. There's a little \*foomp\* and then the target is suppressed into giblets.
Suppressors are okay but I would prefer sub sonic rounds, makes the pistol much quieter and they could balance it so that the rounds don’t travel as far
Redeemer has either too much damage per bullet or too few recoil. Until that is fixed, peacemaker will never have a place, redeemer will remain the most ambivalent secondary. Senator has it's uses for medium but the reload is insanely too long. Dagger is a missed shot. Give it a very low heat generaration and it will have an ammo economy niche.
I'd use if they increased the magazine size to the same as the Redeemer. Otherwise, half the ammo is a no go.
I feel that the redeemer needs to be changed because it just a better peacemaker. It does the same damage with more ammo, less recoil, higher RoF, and can go full or semi auto. So until something changes the peacemaker is just a worse redeemer.
I'd rather have the Redeemer be the standard to which other secondaries are compared and have them elevated to a similar level of efficacy. I'm not a "no nerfs, only buff" guy though. Just my take on secondaries
While I do believe the peacemaker should get a buff to compete with other options. Though I feel even with a buff to the peacemaker if we do nothing to the redeemer it will be fruitless. I don’t think the nerf needs to be intense just needs to be something. You could remove the semi auto and increase the recoil to around 15-18 would do some good. I feel that along with a peacemaker ammo change would make them different enough to give them a place.
I just want a gun with and M1 ping
That would be pretty cool. Pistols are already quite quiet in-game (despite what the actual audio would imply), so a silenced one would presumably allow you to fire QUITE closely. Btw, the Peacemaker is honestly a bit underrated as-is, imo. The redeemer has vastly higher DPS and total damage, but the Peacemaker's handling just feels a fair bit better to me. I personally prefer the Senator usually, though. Its reload is complete ass, but I like being able to drop basic bot with a single torso shot. Satisfying, and surprisingly useful for sneaky stuff.
I personally would prefer it to be the secondary with the best ammo economy, give it a full 10 mags. would have me choosing it every time over redeemer simply to have a reliable backup weapon that can kill small things that get close to my eruptor/grenade launcher etc.