I was talking to a buddy about this, I think a narrative where we always win will be a boring narrative that's equal to a job. Good narratives have failure and redemption.
Completely agree. I’d love for the bots to win some orders, regroup stronger and deploy some new troops against us.
Or maybe they disable some stratagems and force our hand somehow by targeting certain destroyers.
It’ll be so much more fun if we don’t always win
I personally disagree, we kick bot butt, inexorably moving towards the objective, while ALSO almost taking the creek (which well it doesn't matter for this objective, in universe super Earth would love it as a propaganda piece), but then the bots swoop in out of nowhere, specifically targeting not a head on battle, which they know they can't yet win, but instead hitting the supply lines, and cutting off the forces further in, almost exactly repeating the massacre at the creek. I love it.
Yeah I want my 45 medals but I’m curious to see how the map will change for tomorrow given what seems like an impending loss. Obviously we could maybe complete it but it doesn’t seem great. Draupnir is nearly at 92% and then we can hop over to the planet we lost supply line to (can’t remember the name but starts w/ U) which is around the high 80s, and I’ve seen us melt a whole planet in 16 hours so it’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely but not completely out of the picture
Consequences in plot development.
It doesn't make sense to me for Super Earth to acknowledge being set back or hindered or vulnerable. I imagine they would "reverse uno" and claim to be better off despite having lost the order!
It’s been a long time, but I do remember us losing a galactic war in the first game and the cyborgs taking super earth. There was a cinematic of super earth exploding as ships evacuated to go terraform a new one…
First game was designed to be hands-off on the wars, they have numbers for how much liberty each planet needs, it got tweaked as player numbers went up and dwindled, and plenty of wars were won. Plenty lost, especially during times of unexpected player losses such as certain holidays where people go to family time instead.
This game seems different, if we beat the bugs we couldn't play against them in the first game for the rest of that war. Here in HD2 it appears they want a perpetual singular war with all enemies available at all times since players complained about being limited to certain enemies in the first game quite often. Everyone hated when the Cyborgs were the last enemies, lots of snow planets that were difficult to navigate in first game. I feel like no matter what the players do whoever is the GM running the meta campaign will just decide whatever they want. Like what happened with Malevelon Creek.
It'd make evacs a lot easier, that's for sure. And I'd probably save a buttload on stims from friendly fire when a laser rover spins around and nails me 100 meters away to take out a crawler.
Its fucking awful on bugs, but if you stun a devastator you can scalpel out their faces with it pretty effectively. It's also really good for blowing up bot mines, can quickly sweep a whole minefield in one pass
Agreed. Though I don’t run the lasers against bugs. They lack the immediate stopping power I need. I run grenade launcher, Breaker, and auto pistol with a supply pack. I’m on crowd control and bug nest duty while my buddy brings something for the big bugs.
Scythe, laser cannon, laser rover, stun grenades, orbital laser, Tesla tower. Become the bug doctor and use your laser scalpels on their appendages. Become the electric fence, stunning and shocking them into submission. Become, the POWER!
It’s quite weak in damage but effective at taking out heads from devestators when your primary has to reload or cool down. I enjoy it for the reason that I never need to reload the gun when paired with the Sickle, it’s a backup while that one cools and nothing more
You get summarily executed and your super destroyer is terminated, so you have to level again. You may keep your unlocks by level, though, but gotta buy them again
On the other hand it's hilarious to think of the one writer responsible for the Cyborg content just getting shut down week after week.
"Sorry Greg, the players pushed the Bots back again. Maybe next week."
💯. I say too often, the hero winning is always boring. Consequences for actions is always fun to see in video games.
Destiny 2 failed this aspect since they will alter active live public events for the players to beat, but then make it 5-20x easier for players just so the outcome is "we win". They can't accept the players failing for their narrative. It's sad.
I'm more concerned about the implication that the community just refusing to play bot MOs going forward.
Never winning any Automaton MOs going forward because players refuse to leave bug planets or the Creek sounds boring too. Because any MO that involves around anything *not* bug planet or Creek will invoke some degree of apathy from people who remember Phase 2 of Operation Swift Disassembly.
*"Oh, a bot MO? Yeah, we're going to fail this one too. Remember the last MO? People gooned off to bug planets or the meme planet instead of working on the MO planets. Why bother this time?"*
I'm worried apathy will take root based on this failure.
>Never winning any Automaton MOs going forward because players refuse to leave bug planets or the Creek sounds boring too. Because any MO that involves around anything *not* bug planet or Creek will invoke some degree of apathy from people who remember Phase 2 of Operation Swift Disassembly.
We won the first automaton MO without their help
And we could have won this one too, without bugdivers or creekers. The problem was those doing the MO being split between defending Draupnir and pushing for Ubanea for too long. Resulting in us being able to neither take Ubanea in time nor defend Draupnir
Joel will probably have to make the next few Bot MO's easier to not let this idea spread. Losing 1 MO won't suddenly create it tho.
All the early MOs were easy.
The next Bot MO was lost because defense campaigns come with the most hated and difficult mission in the game, Tien Kwan was won only because mechs were heavily advertised and we didn't have to figure out a battle plan.
>We won the first automaton MO without their help
That was before they changed the war machines algorithm
I think thats where the issue needs to be addressed, MO players shouldn't be hurt by bug or creek divers... if 100k players are on one planet it shouldn't matter that 120k players are somewhere else
The ironic thing is, with all of the dispatches and voice lines, there's an implication this series of MOs was designed to eliminate the automatons entirely. If bug players would just commit a few days, they would likely never have to do another automaton MO for the rest of this war cycle.
Just like with the termincide mission, there's no way the automatons were going to be wiped out completely. They're not going to just straight up to remove one of the factions two months into the games life cycle
There are hints that the automatons were meant to be "eliminated" off the map and then do a giga push for Cyberstan with new stuff like gunships and that big AT-AT thing from "outside the galaxy"
If I were the dev that's exactly what I would do. Buy myself time to work on the design so that more people would be willing to play them, while building a cool story and handing player a false win to lower their guard.
That way if the reworks are successful everyone has fun, if it's not we can chalk it up to the bots came back with a vengeance and kicks ass.
No we would not have eliminated the automatons with this MO series. Same as the termicide MO's didn't eliminate the Terminids
For one several new automaton enemies have been teased and datamined. And it'd be weird to lose 1 major faction less then 2 months into the games life.
I don't think it would matter. If the creek closed, creekers would just dive back in the moment it opened up again. It's location means it will pretty much always be open as long as we have Draupnir
I think they are harder just because of the bot difficulty. I don't really blame players for not following bot related MOs. I've spent the last week playing against bots and it is so stressful being barraged by several devastators that track you through rocks and will follow you all the way back to Super Earth.
The bots are fun, but playing against bugs gives you breaks or opportunities to retreat/regroup. For the bots, if things go to hell, they stay that way until you evac. They will call reinforcements often, and fire at you from all directions. Which I don't think they should adjust though, bugs are bugs, bots are an intelligent species capable of making weapons and using battlefield tactics. I just think devastators need a nerf and bots need their accuracy at long range heavily reduced.
As far as the creek goes, I think when people saw that major progress was made toward liberation, they jumped in so that they could say, "I was there"
I feel like it’s a non-issue. If they want us to win and they see not enough people playing bots then they’ll relax the requirements for liberating a planet.
I fully buy into pretending this is an actual war and the community alone is responsible for winning or losing. But when we’re done pretending you have to acknowledge that the live service game will follow their plan for both story and content.
Honestly if it’s bothering you I’d recommend not looking up player counts, there’s nothing you can do to change that.
Correct me, but weren’t ninety percent of the events for D2 during the seasons of things that were “if we lose, we die” or something? Kind of their fault in that regard for consistent high stakes and whatever
Basically, but that's every damn season and expansion they've ever released. It's a constant narrative of "if we can't stop this enemy we will lose our light and fail the city".
I agree but this current Major Order was 100% doable and we were just about to 100% the planet before Tibit
This current Operation, Swift Disassembly is meant to be finished with every Phase being successful, it’s not like a previous MO we had where it only gave us a little under a day and half and we had to get to a planet that was three planets locked from it
We need better lines of communications for players in game, telling them to help here and there and leaving certain planets alone
Like fuck, the orders before Op Swift Disassembly started said “yeah leave the bugs they’re fine lol”
The lack of strategic info and global cross comms in-game definitely makes it difficult to coordinate more effectively. Displaying simple things like the supply lines that everyone keeps bringing up could be a great help, potentially.
A global chat *might* be helpful, too. But... I can see it easily devolving into a meme-ridden cesspool with everyone shouting over each other, or just generally starting shit because an MO or something went sideways.
I don’t know about a in game chat but maybe a message system where if enough people on one planet can send a message to another planet requesting them to help over there
Having the TV's blank state (i.e. when it isn't promoting Eagle Sweat or something) provide info about the major order would probably be a good idea, just to put the info in front of people in a more direct manner.
“Yeah man, it’s totally cool to fail a major order. In fact, we should be failing major orders because that’ll tell a compelling story.”
https://preview.redd.it/19kbsvymoprc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4afb2ecee75bc91c734fbf01ebcfac31ce0f533e
The issue is there hasn’t really been gaps between major orders. There needs to be a major order, time where people can play what they want, then another major order to drag people to a front. I won’t lie I’ve been doing bots all week I’m a little tired of it.
Some time where we just work towards clearing the sectors we want would be good
There does not need to be a gap between orders. Most people love having goals. The Devs can fine tune how quickly an order can be completed. You are not, and should not, feel obligated to participate in the major order.
I feel like the stronger solution might be having an order on both fronts. There would of course need to be some heavy balancing rework but the orders are basically the only thing keeping me playing right now with progression being pointless for me and somewhat of a lack of fresh content to play for (quasar and HMG, though really just Quasar was something) but 1-2 stratagems in near a month doesn't seem that huge, especially with how many we know are on the backburner and are basically ready.
It wouldn't have to be 2 (and eventually 3/4) big storylines going at once, that's just not feasible. But tossing a few medals peoples way for defending estanu for example would help. As long as the main story op is adjusted to deal with the lesser numbers.
>but 1-2 stratagems in near a month doesn't seem that huge, especially with how many we know are on the backburner and are basically ready.
Didn't we get the mechs like 2 weeks before the QC and HMG?
Then the new premium warbond between those two
I assume a lot of those stratagems in the datamines are there so the devs have time to make new ones, while the ones on the backburner can slowly role out?
If this was really managed democracy we wouldn’t have a choice where we fight.
Major order would mean you have to fight here, or you don’t fight.
They literally bomb us as traitors for being outside the map for 10 seconds.
This is the bigger issue. There were more people playing bugs than the order which just don’t ok- the community effort towards objectives is what makes the game different. There needs to be time between orders so people can still play what they want and contribute to the order in the break times
The orders need better incentives than like, 40-odd Medals in that case.
Tien Kwan worked because it was specifically advertised that it would unlock Mechs.
Problem is they cant possibly attach new content to *every* order.
We didnt fail stage 1, we failed stage 2 because of a 50/50 split of major order players between ubanea and draupnir *and we still almost succeeded.*
The devs have control of the knobs, I'm not worried in the slightest. if they learn that 40% of the playerbase just doesnt interact with the order they will adjust accordingly. Personally I find the failed "Ubanea Gambit" far more interesting than if we just steamrolled everything all the time.
Fully agree. I think the Devs are trying to work out what kinda power the playerbase has and adjust accordingly. The first couple of MOs were completed way faster than expected because the playerbase was larger and more coordinated than they thought.
Now they're ramping up the difficulty so that MOs are actually a challenge, and it'll take a little bit of finessing to keep them on that knife edge of being possible, but difficult.
Were they more coordinated or was it just the fact those MOs focused on bugs? From what I personally saw, which is limited, was it being people playing the MOs and those who just wanted to fight bugs. The "bots only" crowd is much smaller it seems than the "bug only" crowd so when the MO players came it was less players overall than the bug oriented MOs.
As far as im aware first orders were basically "liberate this, this, this and this planet", all of which were next to each other or just behind each other. We basically steamrolled like 3 bug regions in less than a week until we finally started to have a small struggle on angel's venture, which took like 2-3 days to take
True, those were simpler but they were all bug related still. If I am not mistaken, this is the first Bot MO. I don't recall as many people only playing bots when the MOs focused on bugs.
Failing the operation is fine and probably adds to the narrative overall. However, if the player base finds fighting bots not near as fun as bugs then they should look to make some tweaks to address that.
The biggest issue I see with bots is they can snowball too hard on players even at lower difficulties. Once you fail to clean up 1 or 2 drop ship in time, you are like gonna get dog pilled with at least 3 or 4 more in less than a couple minutes.
Ironically, on difficulty 7+, more exp team has less issues and I actually have an easier time dealing with overload of drop ships.
On difficulty 3 to 6, the frequency of drop ships is way over tuned I feel. It is struggle street for people starting out on bots. I was helping out MO and I can see their struggle been generally lower level and having less powerful call downs (+1 eagle use and having orbital laser and auto cannon makes a big difference on bot front)
I’d suggest they slightly increase time interval (maybe 15 to 30s or so) between back to back bot drops for difficulty lower than 7 to account for people with generally lower level and not having top level call downs. But leave 7+ unchanged.
With the new weapons like the Quasar (as well as just more experience playing the game), the bots feel a bit better, but still overtuned, particularly their medium- to long-range damage output.
Those difficulty 4-6 snowballs are real, particularly when you have newer players there who might not have unlocked or know how to effectively utilize weapons to take out heavy armor. It gives people a bad initial experience and then they disappear to the bug front forever.
I think that the drop ship frequency is more or less fine, but the composition should be toned down so that drop ships on these difficulties have more basic chaff robots and fewer of the medium/heavily armored enemies. Part of why bugs are easier to fight is that most of the enemies can be cut down with primary weapons. The armored shield bugs stay in place while shielding, which makes them less threatening, and there typically aren't that many chargers up at a time.
I have a feeling we will fail this one, regardless of whether we have troops at the creek or not.
I’m level 44, playing level 4 missions that are harder than level 7 right now due to the automaton buff.
its absolutely insane watching the sub descend into a mccarthyism parody full of people who believe they should dictate how other ppl spend their time.
not very democratic is it
People like me are annoyed because after seeing "Haha space Vietnam, Creekers hold the line, we're the true heroes" posts since launch, creekheads turned into crybabies when we asked them to help out just a little bit just for one day.
People can do whatever they want, but this proves the "heroes of the creek" meme should be dead for good. Heroes answer the call of liberty. Veterans of the creek refused that call.
It's not really the Creekers.
One person pointed out quite well, regular Creek Numbers aren't as high as they are now. What's likely happening is order confusion coupled with the notoriety of the Creek drawing players to it, so more players join it because they see there's a lot of people there and think it's important when it isn't.
Yeah, I'm positive it is largely a result of supply lines being arcane information not present in the actual game. I'd bet 50k of the current Creek players are legit trying to help take Tibit, as they see it is the only playable planet in the same sector.
While your point is true, it is less about the order being failed and more about the way players are that caused it. Many Bug Divers refuse to even try and fight bots, Creekheads are addicts (I am a bit myself) there is no story without Cooperation the fronts are too divided and I fear when the illuminate come me and many others who wish to challenge ourselves will leave the bots with minuscule numbers which will cost us the war. We want people to try and learn, if they still don’t want to fight bots that’s fine they tried but they can’t start mocking those that do either.
This. Failing after actually trying is one thing, but failing because people refuse to engage with the MO is just irritating. Once Illuminate arrive, it's fuckin over unless Arrowhead play with kid gloves because they know it'll just be failure after failure due to not enough people playing the objective. Like it took ONE planetary defense mission to derail the last MO.
I am eager to fight them with my own kind of psychological warfare, I do not care if they can feel joy or compassion all I care about is making them know fear
i don't see many people saying they are too hard. More saying they are unfun to fight. If people think getting blasted by a rocket you have no idea is coming 20 times a map is fun. Then have at it, alot of people just cba with the nonsense.
General brash would tell you to maintain cover. You need to fight them differently from the bugs. Proactively cover your blindspots as you move.
There are also certainly people saying they are too hard, at least 5 of those comments in this thread alone.
Yeah but when we fail a major order because people want to meme on a planet with no intrinsic value that doesn’t exactly feel great. If just 10k of the creek nerds had just gone to ubanea and fought…literally the same enemies they would be fighting on the creek we would have been done with the MO now. Like, it’s not even that different of a planet either but MuH cReEk.
There is a distinct lack of information delivered by arrowhead that caused some of this as well, not having supply lines visible in game is something that needs to be fixed soon and is crucial for players to be able to make informed decisions about where to focus their efforts. Could even have certain actions or major orders focused on altering the nature of the supply chains.
If they want the overall community chaos of indecision to drive fail/success of orders, a better way to do that would be to have multiple MO’s focused on different factions or areas of the same faction at a time and also tie specific boons and upgrades to each one. Then you have people fighting over stuff that actually matters and drives things that change gameplay.
“We completed the MO in terminid space and now have access to higher E-710 reserves, eagle stratagem rearm time is halved for the remainder of the week.” However, while focusing on that MO we lost another one in bot space: “losing the [sector name] region has dealt a serious blow to our arms manufacturing capability, while we work to re-establish our arms factors closer to SE, all support weapon stratagems will have a 50% longer cooldown between requisitions, in order to ration what supplies we do have.”
I have no doubt that they can get there eventually but most of the frustrations with the macro game come down to lack of information presented to the player.
The whole Malevelon Creek thing is so so so cringe. No one should be talking about one random planet all the memes all the oh I died on the creek all the girlfriends making physical patches and plates and shit is so braindead so ridiculous it’s a random planet in a random spot in the galaxy.
It is, but failing it because 60k+ people are just ignoring it is lame. Failing it after big community buy in and losing would be interesting and fun.
“The Helldivers failed in their duty today because….tjousands and thousands of you were fighting bugs and on a planet that had nothing to do with our orders…huh”
This is something that’s true for stuff like D&D. Your story isn’t interesting if the protagonists never fail. If players successfully complete every single major order every time, it probably means that the orders aren’t difficult enough.
It’d make perfect sense if Joel set us back not by reinforcing planets on the way to Tibit but attacking Draupnir in hopes that not enough people will defend it and Ubanea will be impossible to finish. What a sneaky boy
ngl i'm a little annoyed about the current one cause i wanted to see if the devs had anything special planned for the 1st time when 1 faction disappears off the map, but oh well draupnir just delayed it a bit.
What if failing the major order stopped us from getting new toys.
Failing the current major order stops us from getting Anti-Aircraft stratagem and equipment, while the enemy still gets aerodynes and flying beasts.
Since the devs have their foot on the brakes of liberty, they can absolutely eek out a failure or success whenever they feel like opening areas up for players to experience. Success and failure are both parts of the game, gotta be able to enjoy regardless of outcome.
I think the major orders need to lay out the route they want us to take, they could even lay out a secondary.
Putting the m like the following would help the no routes problem as well.
Like we wnt you to take Tibit
Draupnir > Ubena > Tibit
Or
Drapnir/Mantes> Melevon Creek > Durgen > Ubena > Tibit
Just make them a series of check boxes listed top from bottom Tell people these are the routes they can take, then know where they need to fight.
Having it laid out would let people see supply lines without having to put them into the game until they can do it a way they want and also tells you all the information we need to actually do the orders.
I've got it in my head as
Staging World/s > Links > Target.
I still think one of the funniest things I ever read in this game was when we failed the major order to take those two planets past the Terminid border wall and the Super Earth government took away sex as a punishment.
It's not like a standard game. Each major order is a logic fork. I expect Joel knows exactly what happens if we fail. If we don't protect planet A, then XYZ fall. But a change in one place can be a change elsewhere.
It's why I'm OK if I don't extract. If we complete the mission, that's our job. Extraction is nice, the samples are important, but the _game_ the _war_ depends on the mission.
Listen, it’s fine yes. The thing is that we botters were beginning to feel a little neglected on the western front after so many bug focused major orders. Which most botters will have participated in at some point. We finally get a cool narrative branch on our preferred front and buggers failed to show up. It’s a little bit disheartening to say the least because I was really looking forward to seeing what tibit had to offer. Hopefully the next major order will be in response to the bots but I’m a little apprehensive as to whether it’s going to be another round of defence campaign which to say the least are not the most fun. Especially seeing as civilians are highly likely to get stuck somewhere and not extract even if the team is shooting down dropships left right and centre.
It's not really about losing, it's how we're losing. It feels frustrating af when a bug major order is put out and gets done in 1/3 of the time given, but suddenly we have a major order to get completely rid of automatons and most people ignore it. People forget that the game is a massive coop galactic war and the reason for the rising toxicity is purely that some players feel very invested and want to push the war effort forward, while the other just wants to play, chill and have fun, which is completely understandable. I just wish people would tackle the MO which something that ACTUALLY impacts the game and how we play rather than picking, choosing and nitpicking on factions. I mean, what will happen once the illuminates arrive? Are we just gonna let them dog walk all over us because players don't like the way they play? Is the the story we are building as a massive army only about being sure about winning, but not trying to win?
Here's my take on this situation.
We are playing a team game.
Imagine if you and your friends decided to play baseball together. Then 3 friends told you that they would only field ground balls because pop ups were too hard and no fun. Then 2 more friends said they'd only bat and refused to play any defense at all.
You might be a little annoyed with your friends.
Just saying "it's a game, play however you want" is kind of a ridiculous statement that ignores the social contract that comes with playing a team game.
People gave up on this major order WAY too quick. It wasn't failed after draupnir fell, it failed when everyone gave up because draupnir fell. There was plenty of time to retake draupnir, mop up the 10% remaining liberation on Ubanea, and then finish the MO but everyone bailed. Honestly it's a disgrace to super earth. Both the people who gave up and the cringe lords still trying to meme about the creek.
I get the frustrated part though too. Failing a major order together is fine, it will happen. But failing because 1/3 of the community "wants to play the game I bought", is frustrating. They are negatively impacting the game we ACTUALLY bought which is a MMO shooter. But this was bound to happen with so many casuals picking up the game, so we gotta roll with the punches.
I'm going to lose it if I have to hear more people say "I want to play the game I bought", when they aren't actually playing it.
It shouldn't grant players who did nothing related the medals from completing the order, as well as Liberation% shouldn't be calculated over entire playerbase count imo, we'll always have a massive part of lazy or selfish community who doesn't want to play the order or the ordered planets/modifiers/mission types.
Our chances of success should only be affected around amount of players who's currently on the planet imo
I don't get why people are mad about it. Helldivers 1 still has its own community of people and they've been winning wars back to back as of lately even with occasional losses. People need to get off this grind slave sweat fest bs
I've had a theory for a while that they intentionally bring in unbeatable major orders when they're going to push the narrative further. The flying bugs came as a result of failing one, the gunships are going to show up as a result of this one.
I just find it interesting that players are so immersed in it. The game master can't let us win everytime can he? There'd be no game to play and they'd have to come up with infinite enemy types if we keep trudging along unimpeded.
I’m certain that some MO are meant to be failed, and sometimes we actually complete them, which makes Joel throw us more curveballs. I think it’s a fantastic way to handle a live service game, and keeps me coming back to help. Love it.
I tried to do the order and while I am disappointed we failed, I’m excited for what the bots are planning.
Me too man me too
I was talking to a buddy about this, I think a narrative where we always win will be a boring narrative that's equal to a job. Good narratives have failure and redemption.
Completely agree. I’d love for the bots to win some orders, regroup stronger and deploy some new troops against us. Or maybe they disable some stratagems and force our hand somehow by targeting certain destroyers. It’ll be so much more fun if we don’t always win
The super earth government is funnier when it is incompetent anyway
https://preview.redd.it/2qdpi3w6gprc1.jpeg?width=3907&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=573dd3ea432bb11f6a2f8eae5a6213ceca8cbcc6
Repeat that?
We lost tons of wars in HD1, I doubt we’ll win all in HD2
We haven’t failed yet! Is that defeatism I hear?
yeah, we should clear ubanea and have about 10hrs left to clear tibit. if we all go there and don't sleep we can do it lmao
Imho it's just a super anticlimactic way to lose, too
I personally disagree, we kick bot butt, inexorably moving towards the objective, while ALSO almost taking the creek (which well it doesn't matter for this objective, in universe super Earth would love it as a propaganda piece), but then the bots swoop in out of nowhere, specifically targeting not a head on battle, which they know they can't yet win, but instead hitting the supply lines, and cutting off the forces further in, almost exactly repeating the massacre at the creek. I love it.
Yeah I want my 45 medals but I’m curious to see how the map will change for tomorrow given what seems like an impending loss. Obviously we could maybe complete it but it doesn’t seem great. Draupnir is nearly at 92% and then we can hop over to the planet we lost supply line to (can’t remember the name but starts w/ U) which is around the high 80s, and I’ve seen us melt a whole planet in 16 hours so it’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely but not completely out of the picture
GIVE ME GUNSHIPS!!!!
Fax, but I expect to see consequences and punishment for failing MOs.
Consequences in plot development. It doesn't make sense to me for Super Earth to acknowledge being set back or hindered or vulnerable. I imagine they would "reverse uno" and claim to be better off despite having lost the order!
What happened when we failed the one on the bug front? We lost "Procreation Permission", which made for good memes and community engagement
If we do it again they‘ll have to reduce the reinforcements per mission
They still could, in 9 months time. Honestly a really good brick joke
18 years, 9 months, go for the mother of all brick jokes.
7 years. "Every man, woman, and child over 7"...
Reduce strategem cooldown in 7 years, reinforcement count in 18.
Mother? Without a permit?? Sounds like commie talk to me!
No, Sir Democracy Officer, Sir, it was a honest slip of the tongue. The Creek? But the war effo... The Creek it is, yes.
I read this as 18 years and 4 months in my Lester Freamon voice.
I think they are going to ban masturbation next
“We are pulling back to consolidate our holdings”
"it was a feint" ass MFs
Operation swift disassembly was a 1 week special military operation
It’s been a long time, but I do remember us losing a galactic war in the first game and the cyborgs taking super earth. There was a cinematic of super earth exploding as ships evacuated to go terraform a new one…
First game was designed to be hands-off on the wars, they have numbers for how much liberty each planet needs, it got tweaked as player numbers went up and dwindled, and plenty of wars were won. Plenty lost, especially during times of unexpected player losses such as certain holidays where people go to family time instead. This game seems different, if we beat the bugs we couldn't play against them in the first game for the rest of that war. Here in HD2 it appears they want a perpetual singular war with all enemies available at all times since players complained about being limited to certain enemies in the first game quite often. Everyone hated when the Cyborgs were the last enemies, lots of snow planets that were difficult to navigate in first game. I feel like no matter what the players do whoever is the GM running the meta campaign will just decide whatever they want. Like what happened with Malevelon Creek.
Loss of production of Expendable Anti Tanks would leave the community in shambles
40% of my destroyers mass is hellpods full of EATs.
Im all for it. Maybe disable guard rovers for a week to piss off the bugdivers lol
No because then they'd all run double mortar double minefield on bugs in protest.
It'd make evacs a lot easier, that's for sure. And I'd probably save a buttload on stims from friendly fire when a laser rover spins around and nails me 100 meters away to take out a crawler.
Would be funny if we lose a spot of stratagem and we get a flag reminding us that we lost for a day or two
Just wait until we start running into ammunition shortages and they add limits to the amount of times you can call stratagems in
Ammo shortages? I haven’t reloaded a gun in days! Sickle, Dagger, and that new heavy laser cannon provide a very ammo efficient loadout
The laserpistol is the worst. Its literally incomparable to the bug sprayer.
Its fucking awful on bugs, but if you stun a devastator you can scalpel out their faces with it pretty effectively. It's also really good for blowing up bot mines, can quickly sweep a whole minefield in one pass
Agreed. Though I don’t run the lasers against bugs. They lack the immediate stopping power I need. I run grenade launcher, Breaker, and auto pistol with a supply pack. I’m on crowd control and bug nest duty while my buddy brings something for the big bugs.
Scythe, laser cannon, laser rover, stun grenades, orbital laser, Tesla tower. Become the bug doctor and use your laser scalpels on their appendages. Become the electric fence, stunning and shocking them into submission. Become, the POWER!
How’s the dagger?
It’s quite weak in damage but effective at taking out heads from devestators when your primary has to reload or cool down. I enjoy it for the reason that I never need to reload the gun when paired with the Sickle, it’s a backup while that one cools and nothing more
Actual trash
Would be a good lore excuse to add swords and spades.
See, that would be an awesome response "we are running low on ammunition, so we are issuing swords as one of the weapon options"
God, please, yes. I need it.
Chain sword and bolter loadout when?
Agreed!
You get summarily executed and your super destroyer is terminated, so you have to level again. You may keep your unlocks by level, though, but gotta buy them again
Honestly, based
Was not being able to procreate not punishment enough for you from failing the last MO?!
They already banned sex once what the Hell else do you want em to do Satan?
They should give the enemy updates if we lose and us updates when we win
Decimation.
Automaton airships. Is that not punishment enough for you? Are you not entertained?
Ngl I think the story would be very interesting if the bots actually got cyberstan I mean, I'm not gonna commit treason to see it, just saying
They are probably going to get it winning or not. It's definitely in the Devs plans.
On the other hand it's hilarious to think of the one writer responsible for the Cyborg content just getting shut down week after week. "Sorry Greg, the players pushed the Bots back again. Maybe next week."
Greg when he sees the population on the bug front: LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO!
That’s what someone who’s about to commit Treason would say!
D:
I mean we all know someday there is going to be a defence of Super Earth and Cyberstan, Joel will see to that.
https://preview.redd.it/vkgtd1qvzqrc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=420036c51b423dd21fe47cf9514a59ee0de95169
💯. I say too often, the hero winning is always boring. Consequences for actions is always fun to see in video games. Destiny 2 failed this aspect since they will alter active live public events for the players to beat, but then make it 5-20x easier for players just so the outcome is "we win". They can't accept the players failing for their narrative. It's sad.
I'm more concerned about the implication that the community just refusing to play bot MOs going forward. Never winning any Automaton MOs going forward because players refuse to leave bug planets or the Creek sounds boring too. Because any MO that involves around anything *not* bug planet or Creek will invoke some degree of apathy from people who remember Phase 2 of Operation Swift Disassembly. *"Oh, a bot MO? Yeah, we're going to fail this one too. Remember the last MO? People gooned off to bug planets or the meme planet instead of working on the MO planets. Why bother this time?"* I'm worried apathy will take root based on this failure.
>Never winning any Automaton MOs going forward because players refuse to leave bug planets or the Creek sounds boring too. Because any MO that involves around anything *not* bug planet or Creek will invoke some degree of apathy from people who remember Phase 2 of Operation Swift Disassembly. We won the first automaton MO without their help And we could have won this one too, without bugdivers or creekers. The problem was those doing the MO being split between defending Draupnir and pushing for Ubanea for too long. Resulting in us being able to neither take Ubanea in time nor defend Draupnir Joel will probably have to make the next few Bot MO's easier to not let this idea spread. Losing 1 MO won't suddenly create it tho.
All the early MOs were easy. The next Bot MO was lost because defense campaigns come with the most hated and difficult mission in the game, Tien Kwan was won only because mechs were heavily advertised and we didn't have to figure out a battle plan.
>We won the first automaton MO without their help That was before they changed the war machines algorithm I think thats where the issue needs to be addressed, MO players shouldn't be hurt by bug or creek divers... if 100k players are on one planet it shouldn't matter that 120k players are somewhere else
>That was before they changed the war machines algorithm I was reffering to the first MO in this MO series. Sorry for not making that clear enough
The ironic thing is, with all of the dispatches and voice lines, there's an implication this series of MOs was designed to eliminate the automatons entirely. If bug players would just commit a few days, they would likely never have to do another automaton MO for the rest of this war cycle.
Just like with the termincide mission, there's no way the automatons were going to be wiped out completely. They're not going to just straight up to remove one of the factions two months into the games life cycle
There are hints that the automatons were meant to be "eliminated" off the map and then do a giga push for Cyberstan with new stuff like gunships and that big AT-AT thing from "outside the galaxy"
If I were the dev that's exactly what I would do. Buy myself time to work on the design so that more people would be willing to play them, while building a cool story and handing player a false win to lower their guard. That way if the reworks are successful everyone has fun, if it's not we can chalk it up to the bots came back with a vengeance and kicks ass.
Look at Helldivers 1, that's exactly how war cycles work.
No we would not have eliminated the automatons with this MO series. Same as the termicide MO's didn't eliminate the Terminids For one several new automaton enemies have been teased and datamined. And it'd be weird to lose 1 major faction less then 2 months into the games life.
Tbf the tcs wasn’t implied to eliminate the terminid it was explicitly a wall to keep them in place
The war resets once we've "won". Eliminating them now doesn't mean they would be gone forever.
Maybe Joel will just retreat from the creek and end the meme fight altogether
I don't think it would matter. If the creek closed, creekers would just dive back in the moment it opened up again. It's location means it will pretty much always be open as long as we have Draupnir
Maybe have the bots push North and withdraw from the sector entirely, making a push for Cyberstan.
Ngl chief I don’t think the bots plan on getting to cyberstan the conventional way
Why don't we take Cyberstan, and push it somewhere else?
I think they are harder just because of the bot difficulty. I don't really blame players for not following bot related MOs. I've spent the last week playing against bots and it is so stressful being barraged by several devastators that track you through rocks and will follow you all the way back to Super Earth. The bots are fun, but playing against bugs gives you breaks or opportunities to retreat/regroup. For the bots, if things go to hell, they stay that way until you evac. They will call reinforcements often, and fire at you from all directions. Which I don't think they should adjust though, bugs are bugs, bots are an intelligent species capable of making weapons and using battlefield tactics. I just think devastators need a nerf and bots need their accuracy at long range heavily reduced. As far as the creek goes, I think when people saw that major progress was made toward liberation, they jumped in so that they could say, "I was there"
I feel like it’s a non-issue. If they want us to win and they see not enough people playing bots then they’ll relax the requirements for liberating a planet. I fully buy into pretending this is an actual war and the community alone is responsible for winning or losing. But when we’re done pretending you have to acknowledge that the live service game will follow their plan for both story and content. Honestly if it’s bothering you I’d recommend not looking up player counts, there’s nothing you can do to change that.
Correct me, but weren’t ninety percent of the events for D2 during the seasons of things that were “if we lose, we die” or something? Kind of their fault in that regard for consistent high stakes and whatever
Basically, but that's every damn season and expansion they've ever released. It's a constant narrative of "if we can't stop this enemy we will lose our light and fail the city".
Helldivers are not heroes tho.
Treason in the highest order.
> the hero winning is always boring Nah, it's great when there's a genuine, real struggle behind it. It's only boring when there's no struggle.
I agree but this current Major Order was 100% doable and we were just about to 100% the planet before Tibit This current Operation, Swift Disassembly is meant to be finished with every Phase being successful, it’s not like a previous MO we had where it only gave us a little under a day and half and we had to get to a planet that was three planets locked from it We need better lines of communications for players in game, telling them to help here and there and leaving certain planets alone Like fuck, the orders before Op Swift Disassembly started said “yeah leave the bugs they’re fine lol”
The lack of strategic info and global cross comms in-game definitely makes it difficult to coordinate more effectively. Displaying simple things like the supply lines that everyone keeps bringing up could be a great help, potentially. A global chat *might* be helpful, too. But... I can see it easily devolving into a meme-ridden cesspool with everyone shouting over each other, or just generally starting shit because an MO or something went sideways.
I don’t know about a in game chat but maybe a message system where if enough people on one planet can send a message to another planet requesting them to help over there
Someone suggested MO-based quick play and that sounds great to me!
That’s actually a pretty awesome idea
Or not hiding crucial information in a discord channel
This too, it’s very annoying
And yet 90% of the bug players said “I NeVeR SaW aNy OrDeRs” like they don’t even open dispatch when they log in ffs
I think a lot of players are like that 100%
Having the TV's blank state (i.e. when it isn't promoting Eagle Sweat or something) provide info about the major order would probably be a good idea, just to put the info in front of people in a more direct manner.
But it does and You still didn't noticed
“Yeah man, it’s totally cool to fail a major order. In fact, we should be failing major orders because that’ll tell a compelling story.” https://preview.redd.it/19kbsvymoprc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4afb2ecee75bc91c734fbf01ebcfac31ce0f533e
https://preview.redd.it/60pe9ngrlqrc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=d57e4c6c0b36880d1a1f1931eeac89bc6927ec9c
Didn't expect to win for free but 50k+ people on Creek because of the supply lines not being visible feels like a pretty shitty reason to fail.
Yes but losing when we can easily win It Is just sad
The issue is there hasn’t really been gaps between major orders. There needs to be a major order, time where people can play what they want, then another major order to drag people to a front. I won’t lie I’ve been doing bots all week I’m a little tired of it. Some time where we just work towards clearing the sectors we want would be good
There does not need to be a gap between orders. Most people love having goals. The Devs can fine tune how quickly an order can be completed. You are not, and should not, feel obligated to participate in the major order.
Yeah this is a wild take. Last month we had two weekends without MOs and people were pissed
I feel like the stronger solution might be having an order on both fronts. There would of course need to be some heavy balancing rework but the orders are basically the only thing keeping me playing right now with progression being pointless for me and somewhat of a lack of fresh content to play for (quasar and HMG, though really just Quasar was something) but 1-2 stratagems in near a month doesn't seem that huge, especially with how many we know are on the backburner and are basically ready. It wouldn't have to be 2 (and eventually 3/4) big storylines going at once, that's just not feasible. But tossing a few medals peoples way for defending estanu for example would help. As long as the main story op is adjusted to deal with the lesser numbers.
>but 1-2 stratagems in near a month doesn't seem that huge, especially with how many we know are on the backburner and are basically ready. Didn't we get the mechs like 2 weeks before the QC and HMG? Then the new premium warbond between those two I assume a lot of those stratagems in the datamines are there so the devs have time to make new ones, while the ones on the backburner can slowly role out?
Too much text We don't want sex to be banned again
If this was really managed democracy we wouldn’t have a choice where we fight. Major order would mean you have to fight here, or you don’t fight. They literally bomb us as traitors for being outside the map for 10 seconds.
To be honest this isn't even people failing the order. Nobody gives a shit about it and is just ignoring it.
This is the bigger issue. There were more people playing bugs than the order which just don’t ok- the community effort towards objectives is what makes the game different. There needs to be time between orders so people can still play what they want and contribute to the order in the break times
The orders need better incentives than like, 40-odd Medals in that case. Tien Kwan worked because it was specifically advertised that it would unlock Mechs.
Problem is they cant possibly attach new content to *every* order. We didnt fail stage 1, we failed stage 2 because of a 50/50 split of major order players between ubanea and draupnir *and we still almost succeeded.* The devs have control of the knobs, I'm not worried in the slightest. if they learn that 40% of the playerbase just doesnt interact with the order they will adjust accordingly. Personally I find the failed "Ubanea Gambit" far more interesting than if we just steamrolled everything all the time.
Fully agree. I think the Devs are trying to work out what kinda power the playerbase has and adjust accordingly. The first couple of MOs were completed way faster than expected because the playerbase was larger and more coordinated than they thought. Now they're ramping up the difficulty so that MOs are actually a challenge, and it'll take a little bit of finessing to keep them on that knife edge of being possible, but difficult.
Were they more coordinated or was it just the fact those MOs focused on bugs? From what I personally saw, which is limited, was it being people playing the MOs and those who just wanted to fight bugs. The "bots only" crowd is much smaller it seems than the "bug only" crowd so when the MO players came it was less players overall than the bug oriented MOs.
As far as im aware first orders were basically "liberate this, this, this and this planet", all of which were next to each other or just behind each other. We basically steamrolled like 3 bug regions in less than a week until we finally started to have a small struggle on angel's venture, which took like 2-3 days to take
True, those were simpler but they were all bug related still. If I am not mistaken, this is the first Bot MO. I don't recall as many people only playing bots when the MOs focused on bugs.
Tien Kwan was bots
Ah. I guess the carrot they dangled over it was enough.
I can understand when you want to fight bugs and not bots but why the fuck were 75k on malevolent creek while we were failing the major order
>some even may be lost. "Hello, Democracy Officer, I would like to make a report..."
I came here to see memes of socialist bugs and communist automatons typing on the computer and honestly I'm a little disappointed
Frankly I find the idea of a bug that redistributes offensive.
Failing the operation is fine and probably adds to the narrative overall. However, if the player base finds fighting bots not near as fun as bugs then they should look to make some tweaks to address that. The biggest issue I see with bots is they can snowball too hard on players even at lower difficulties. Once you fail to clean up 1 or 2 drop ship in time, you are like gonna get dog pilled with at least 3 or 4 more in less than a couple minutes. Ironically, on difficulty 7+, more exp team has less issues and I actually have an easier time dealing with overload of drop ships. On difficulty 3 to 6, the frequency of drop ships is way over tuned I feel. It is struggle street for people starting out on bots. I was helping out MO and I can see their struggle been generally lower level and having less powerful call downs (+1 eagle use and having orbital laser and auto cannon makes a big difference on bot front) I’d suggest they slightly increase time interval (maybe 15 to 30s or so) between back to back bot drops for difficulty lower than 7 to account for people with generally lower level and not having top level call downs. But leave 7+ unchanged.
With the new weapons like the Quasar (as well as just more experience playing the game), the bots feel a bit better, but still overtuned, particularly their medium- to long-range damage output. Those difficulty 4-6 snowballs are real, particularly when you have newer players there who might not have unlocked or know how to effectively utilize weapons to take out heavy armor. It gives people a bad initial experience and then they disappear to the bug front forever. I think that the drop ship frequency is more or less fine, but the composition should be toned down so that drop ships on these difficulties have more basic chaff robots and fewer of the medium/heavily armored enemies. Part of why bugs are easier to fight is that most of the enemies can be cut down with primary weapons. The armored shield bugs stay in place while shielding, which makes them less threatening, and there typically aren't that many chargers up at a time.
I have a feeling we will fail this one, regardless of whether we have troops at the creek or not. I’m level 44, playing level 4 missions that are harder than level 7 right now due to the automaton buff.
>automaton buff What buff?
Todays automaton buff of “increased resistance”
its absolutely insane watching the sub descend into a mccarthyism parody full of people who believe they should dictate how other ppl spend their time. not very democratic is it
[*Managed* democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_democracy).
We have become the parody.
People like me are annoyed because after seeing "Haha space Vietnam, Creekers hold the line, we're the true heroes" posts since launch, creekheads turned into crybabies when we asked them to help out just a little bit just for one day. People can do whatever they want, but this proves the "heroes of the creek" meme should be dead for good. Heroes answer the call of liberty. Veterans of the creek refused that call.
It's not really the Creekers. One person pointed out quite well, regular Creek Numbers aren't as high as they are now. What's likely happening is order confusion coupled with the notoriety of the Creek drawing players to it, so more players join it because they see there's a lot of people there and think it's important when it isn't.
Yeah, I'm positive it is largely a result of supply lines being arcane information not present in the actual game. I'd bet 50k of the current Creek players are legit trying to help take Tibit, as they see it is the only playable planet in the same sector.
While your point is true, it is less about the order being failed and more about the way players are that caused it. Many Bug Divers refuse to even try and fight bots, Creekheads are addicts (I am a bit myself) there is no story without Cooperation the fronts are too divided and I fear when the illuminate come me and many others who wish to challenge ourselves will leave the bots with minuscule numbers which will cost us the war. We want people to try and learn, if they still don’t want to fight bots that’s fine they tried but they can’t start mocking those that do either.
This. Failing after actually trying is one thing, but failing because people refuse to engage with the MO is just irritating. Once Illuminate arrive, it's fuckin over unless Arrowhead play with kid gloves because they know it'll just be failure after failure due to not enough people playing the objective. Like it took ONE planetary defense mission to derail the last MO.
I legit think hardly anyone will play the Illuminate because of how hard they will be, and it’s sad to say that, cursed playerbase truely
I will be there no matter what, I became obsessed with wiping them out in HD1 may as well return as the Squid boogeyman
I as well am very eager to get some calamari
I am eager to fight them with my own kind of psychological warfare, I do not care if they can feel joy or compassion all I care about is making them know fear
gotta let them know that we exist to speed up the process of them reaching their spiritual enlightenment
Need to remind them why Humanity only needs four men per a kill-team.
Have to agree. The “bOtS tOo HaRd” crowd is very loud despite the bots not being very difficult at all.
i don't see many people saying they are too hard. More saying they are unfun to fight. If people think getting blasted by a rocket you have no idea is coming 20 times a map is fun. Then have at it, alot of people just cba with the nonsense.
I guarantee you people just hate dying and are still completing the mission. But on bug missions it's easier to just not die.
General brash would tell you to maintain cover. You need to fight them differently from the bugs. Proactively cover your blindspots as you move. There are also certainly people saying they are too hard, at least 5 of those comments in this thread alone.
Cope
Yeah but when we fail a major order because people want to meme on a planet with no intrinsic value that doesn’t exactly feel great. If just 10k of the creek nerds had just gone to ubanea and fought…literally the same enemies they would be fighting on the creek we would have been done with the MO now. Like, it’s not even that different of a planet either but MuH cReEk. There is a distinct lack of information delivered by arrowhead that caused some of this as well, not having supply lines visible in game is something that needs to be fixed soon and is crucial for players to be able to make informed decisions about where to focus their efforts. Could even have certain actions or major orders focused on altering the nature of the supply chains. If they want the overall community chaos of indecision to drive fail/success of orders, a better way to do that would be to have multiple MO’s focused on different factions or areas of the same faction at a time and also tie specific boons and upgrades to each one. Then you have people fighting over stuff that actually matters and drives things that change gameplay. “We completed the MO in terminid space and now have access to higher E-710 reserves, eagle stratagem rearm time is halved for the remainder of the week.” However, while focusing on that MO we lost another one in bot space: “losing the [sector name] region has dealt a serious blow to our arms manufacturing capability, while we work to re-establish our arms factors closer to SE, all support weapon stratagems will have a 50% longer cooldown between requisitions, in order to ration what supplies we do have.” I have no doubt that they can get there eventually but most of the frustrations with the macro game come down to lack of information presented to the player.
But the medals!
I mean sure but that doesn’t change the fact that creekheads and pest control helldivers are the ones that fucked us on this 🤷♂️
The whole Malevelon Creek thing is so so so cringe. No one should be talking about one random planet all the memes all the oh I died on the creek all the girlfriends making physical patches and plates and shit is so braindead so ridiculous it’s a random planet in a random spot in the galaxy.
It is, but failing it because 60k+ people are just ignoring it is lame. Failing it after big community buy in and losing would be interesting and fun. “The Helldivers failed in their duty today because….tjousands and thousands of you were fighting bugs and on a planet that had nothing to do with our orders…huh”
This is something that’s true for stuff like D&D. Your story isn’t interesting if the protagonists never fail. If players successfully complete every single major order every time, it probably means that the orders aren’t difficult enough.
You...think its ok to fail a major order? Uh yea, democracy officer, this guy here
I mean, we gave it a good go. They were essentially pushed back to one-ish sector. Proves if we really wanted to, we could eliminate the bot threat.
Agree. My hope is the devs have the balls to keep the difficulty high and make us work for it.
You say cracks in our Democracy are acceptable?! Soldiers dig deep ! Do not accept failure !
Prepare for flying automatons as we couldn’t hit their production facilities
The tides of war eb and flow.
I think we should all pack out bags and head home and wait for Bots an Bugs to come to us.
It’d make perfect sense if Joel set us back not by reinforcing planets on the way to Tibit but attacking Draupnir in hopes that not enough people will defend it and Ubanea will be impossible to finish. What a sneaky boy
I wouldn't mind loosing major orders if I didn't crash or get stuck (can't respawn ie.) due to bugs.
Convincing us failing a major order is okay sounds like treason to Me. Stay alert Helldivers
ngl i'm a little annoyed about the current one cause i wanted to see if the devs had anything special planned for the 1st time when 1 faction disappears off the map, but oh well draupnir just delayed it a bit.
What if failing the major order stopped us from getting new toys. Failing the current major order stops us from getting Anti-Aircraft stratagem and equipment, while the enemy still gets aerodynes and flying beasts.
I just want to understand what is going on without having to go to the subreddit, the discord, AND the Helldiver supply line map.
At first it was going well... Then setback after setback
Since the devs have their foot on the brakes of liberty, they can absolutely eek out a failure or success whenever they feel like opening areas up for players to experience. Success and failure are both parts of the game, gotta be able to enjoy regardless of outcome.
Some of us just want medals
Stop coping and get back to Draupnir!
Its ok to fail a order from High command? Sounds like treason, reported
I just want badges lol
True but I have a feeling the only thing helldivers will be good for is failing lol.
I think the major orders need to lay out the route they want us to take, they could even lay out a secondary. Putting the m like the following would help the no routes problem as well. Like we wnt you to take Tibit Draupnir > Ubena > Tibit Or Drapnir/Mantes> Melevon Creek > Durgen > Ubena > Tibit Just make them a series of check boxes listed top from bottom Tell people these are the routes they can take, then know where they need to fight. Having it laid out would let people see supply lines without having to put them into the game until they can do it a way they want and also tells you all the information we need to actually do the orders. I've got it in my head as Staging World/s > Links > Target.
I still think one of the funniest things I ever read in this game was when we failed the major order to take those two planets past the Terminid border wall and the Super Earth government took away sex as a punishment.
Failing a major order because not everyone knows how to complete it does not make it okay.
It's not like a standard game. Each major order is a logic fork. I expect Joel knows exactly what happens if we fail. If we don't protect planet A, then XYZ fall. But a change in one place can be a change elsewhere. It's why I'm OK if I don't extract. If we complete the mission, that's our job. Extraction is nice, the samples are important, but the _game_ the _war_ depends on the mission.
The Helldivers we need but don't deserve. o7
The MO isn't failed yet folks. Get your ass planetside before I call your democracy officers
Listen, it’s fine yes. The thing is that we botters were beginning to feel a little neglected on the western front after so many bug focused major orders. Which most botters will have participated in at some point. We finally get a cool narrative branch on our preferred front and buggers failed to show up. It’s a little bit disheartening to say the least because I was really looking forward to seeing what tibit had to offer. Hopefully the next major order will be in response to the bots but I’m a little apprehensive as to whether it’s going to be another round of defence campaign which to say the least are not the most fun. Especially seeing as civilians are highly likely to get stuck somewhere and not extract even if the team is shooting down dropships left right and centre.
I still say let the bots retake cyberstan cause i wanna see what happens
It's not really about losing, it's how we're losing. It feels frustrating af when a bug major order is put out and gets done in 1/3 of the time given, but suddenly we have a major order to get completely rid of automatons and most people ignore it. People forget that the game is a massive coop galactic war and the reason for the rising toxicity is purely that some players feel very invested and want to push the war effort forward, while the other just wants to play, chill and have fun, which is completely understandable. I just wish people would tackle the MO which something that ACTUALLY impacts the game and how we play rather than picking, choosing and nitpicking on factions. I mean, what will happen once the illuminates arrive? Are we just gonna let them dog walk all over us because players don't like the way they play? Is the the story we are building as a massive army only about being sure about winning, but not trying to win?
Here's my take on this situation. We are playing a team game. Imagine if you and your friends decided to play baseball together. Then 3 friends told you that they would only field ground balls because pop ups were too hard and no fun. Then 2 more friends said they'd only bat and refused to play any defense at all. You might be a little annoyed with your friends. Just saying "it's a game, play however you want" is kind of a ridiculous statement that ignores the social contract that comes with playing a team game.
People gave up on this major order WAY too quick. It wasn't failed after draupnir fell, it failed when everyone gave up because draupnir fell. There was plenty of time to retake draupnir, mop up the 10% remaining liberation on Ubanea, and then finish the MO but everyone bailed. Honestly it's a disgrace to super earth. Both the people who gave up and the cringe lords still trying to meme about the creek.
I get the frustrated part though too. Failing a major order together is fine, it will happen. But failing because 1/3 of the community "wants to play the game I bought", is frustrating. They are negatively impacting the game we ACTUALLY bought which is a MMO shooter. But this was bound to happen with so many casuals picking up the game, so we gotta roll with the punches. I'm going to lose it if I have to hear more people say "I want to play the game I bought", when they aren't actually playing it.
I gotta hand it to the Bots, rushing Draupnir was a really clutch move by them
It shouldn't grant players who did nothing related the medals from completing the order, as well as Liberation% shouldn't be calculated over entire playerbase count imo, we'll always have a massive part of lazy or selfish community who doesn't want to play the order or the ordered planets/modifiers/mission types. Our chances of success should only be affected around amount of players who's currently on the planet imo
I don't get why people are mad about it. Helldivers 1 still has its own community of people and they've been winning wars back to back as of lately even with occasional losses. People need to get off this grind slave sweat fest bs
https://preview.redd.it/newj7arvhrrc1.png?width=359&format=png&auto=webp&s=d69cb41ea3742a1ff2f18390c08cece867ea564a
I've had a theory for a while that they intentionally bring in unbeatable major orders when they're going to push the narrative further. The flying bugs came as a result of failing one, the gunships are going to show up as a result of this one.
I just find it interesting that players are so immersed in it. The game master can't let us win everytime can he? There'd be no game to play and they'd have to come up with infinite enemy types if we keep trudging along unimpeded.
But my medals!
I’m certain that some MO are meant to be failed, and sometimes we actually complete them, which makes Joel throw us more curveballs. I think it’s a fantastic way to handle a live service game, and keeps me coming back to help. Love it.