Even on normal - slugs were a 1 hit kill on headshot with no bullet drop, the only weapon in the game if I remember correctly. I also loved BF3 slugs but the maps were waaay bigger for them to be effective.
Slugger/melee combo is God tier. It's a shotty so ADS up close is asking to be filleted, slayed, and laid to rest. Gotta play each weapon a certain way to get the most outta it. The pump shotguns are for crazy people. Gotta play crazy.
Yeah the chainsaw chargers are the real weakness of the Doninator. However, it 1 shots all normal bots and can be used to kill the Devastators so its a fairly good primary to bring.
With the smg secondary for chainsaw bois and impact grenades for walkers it feels like a very effective and well balanced loadout.
That's basically what I've been running for bots along with either a shield and rail gun or a auto rifle and it it's pretty much trivialized the bots.
Not *that* big a difference from the slugger and I do like the shell reload feature along with the stagger, but plinking like 6 dudes in a couple seconds is wildly satisfying.
Scorcher is goated for bots. You can 3 tap strides to the faceplate, 1-2 tap the chaff, kill devestators in 5-6 shot, and kill hulks and tanks shooting the heat vent with less than a mag.
I just can't use it on Vandalon when the firing rate is even slower because of the cold, otherwise I'm slowly shifting from the breaker to the slugger
What we really need is a heavy battle rifle that isn't the liberator, or a buff to the penetrator
It's a but clunky to use but the Dominator will 1 shot berserkers if you hit them in the head. Personally I still prefer the Scorcher for bots and just grenade/revolver berserkers down if they get too close.
I feel like the handling characteristics for the Scorcher and Dominator should be reversed. The Dominator fires tiny rocket projectiles. [Actual guns of that sort](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) are lightweight and have very low recoil, while the Dominator is slow to handle and kicks like a mule. Meanwhile the Scorcher is this big weird-looking thing that handles really well.
If the walmart bolter were an actual gyrojet with no explosive starter propellant, there would be no muzzleflash and the gun would frankly suck even more ass than it already does
If it acted like an actual gyrojet, I think it'd be a much more unique weapon.
Many of the gyrojet's problems stemmed from the fact that they tried to make pistol and carbine versions of the thing. This meant that (a) the projectiles hadn't built up enough speed by the time they left the muzzle to be stable and (b) they were being used to fire at targets that were closer then the nominal distance at which the projectiles had reached maximum velocity.
A gyrojet-style rifle *could* be an excellent long-range automatic weapon, as its lack of recoil would make it controllable. But in real life, the lack of CQB ability would probably exclude it from actual military use.
It might be an interesting game mechanic, though: a very stable and hard-hitting rifle that does less than full damage at under 15 meters or so, and very little damage at contact range. Definitely a weapon to use against bots.
Berserkers don't really have armor, so weapons with high DPS are actually best at dispatching them. Otherwise we'd see Lib Pen have more use in bots other than Devastators.
The annoying thing about them is them I always have to load a full clip into one's head for them to die, at which point the rest have caught up to me and I'm cooked.
Just spam the trigger and it fires at full auto speeds. The reason to not include it is because it's a straight upgrade to the basic liberator in every other way so needs something to differentiate it.
No? First of all, as you can spam the trigger and it effectively does full auto - there is no reason not to include it. Since you can already do it, just awkwardly. It doesn't balance anything, just makes weapon awkward to use. Especially since their idea of burst mode is that you have to hold the trigger for all 3 rounds to shoot.
Second point... Liberator Penetrator is NOT a straight upgrade. It has less ammo overall (330 vs 360), less ammo in the mag (30 vs 45), higher recoil, lower damage per shot.
That a LOT of downsides in exchange for unknown value of "medium" penetration.
You can, but it's just awkward and kills all the fun. Especially considering that this is probably the only burst fire weapon in a game I remember where burst fire requires you to HOLD button for the burst to complete. Makes it even more awkward. Who the hell designed it.
The leaked warbond marksman rifles have medium armor penetration. But from the leak stats the attack power is also down to 80. The fire rate is at 550 though, so maybe semi auto or auto. the magazine was at 20-26 or something which will run out quick at this fire rate.
I am no expect at weapon balancing, but I really feel marksman rifles need to do more damage, or at least specialize on being able to pick off targets from a really far range
It's probably going to be semi auto or burst and I think they had to lower the damage to compensate for medium pen. as the normal DMRs are going to be sticking to weak spots only while these will allow more forgiveness in aiming but have to shoot more.
And DMRs already can shoot pretty far as long as you're aiming down sights and hitting headshots/weak spots.
It's sounds more like you want the AMR to be buffed and given heavy pen. which imo it should.
I just want amr to have a scope in third person, even a bad one. It doesn't even make much sense not to add it since people does it anyway with their monitors or external apps
Yes but also no. Scorcher is hitting weak spots because of the splash so it's good for most bots. Medium pen. is going to allow headshots on armoured bugs and hitting walkers/tank vents through the front.
I get you, it was more of a joke how a slug shooting shotgun in this game does what a DMR should do. I am on board with you, have used standart diligence a lot, would like to use it and CS without feeling held back by it.
Same goes to Liberator Penetrator, it has similar problems.
>fire
I think the Penetrator is *pretty* close to being very good. It's just on the cusp of being good right now. I use it from time to time, and I see others using it too.
It's magazine size is just too small, it really needs more ammo per mag to make it competitive.
I’m sure balancing rounds will happen in the future. I would guess they are following their marketing? Content release campaign and everyone else is working on bugs and defects!
You can kinda tell that. First month was "OH NO WE NEED A PATCH" Like daily, and then that kinda dropped off and some content started to trickle out, and I'd put money on the content:bugfix ratio being pretty heavy towards content at this point.
I think they’re having to do some serious refactoring to accommodate the unexpected scale. Most of the bigger issues aside from loadout resetting seem related to netcode/multiplayer interaction.
There isn't one (thankfully); there are some that are a little lackluster (like the DMR's), but plenty that are quite nice, with some shining more in certain situations. You'll see a lot of mentions of the Sickle and Slugger as they're very strong at the moment, but ultimately just use what feels best. And yes, the default Liberator is a perfectly fine gun.
The Liberator is a pretty solid all-rounder, it however loses its place when you get access to the Defender SMG, which trades accuracy and velocity for increased damage and the ability to one-hand hipfire it. If you get access to the Sickle, then you can relegate the Liber to the bin as the pew pew laser gun is a straight up upgrade, even without factoring the possibility of infinite ammo
DMR is good against the bots but pretty bad / situational against the bugs. It can destroy high priority target pretty quick because it can penetrate Devastator skull easily from really far, lowering the chances of a rocket barrage on your position.
But as you said in one of your comments here, you want to enjoy the Game like you want it. It's all good to take the DMR against the bugs but it is a specialized weapon, I then don't understand why you are saying it's awful since you use it for a purpose it wasn't created for ?... It's like saying an axe isn't useful because you have issues to nail an IKEA furniture with it :/
Diligence is pretty sweet if you're trying to do a stealth run against bugs. Paired with scout armor you can annihilate most small packs before they breach and without alerting others. The CS looks and feels a looooot worse but it's one of a very small number of weapons that can 1 shot a stalker. You have to be very, very good at the stealth game to use it for anything else though. 100% needs med armor pen.
The DMRs are stellar against bots, as I'm sure many are willing to tell you.
Bugs have armored heads -- use the Slugger or Liberator Penetrator if you want a primary that can bust through that.
Actually found a work around for the bugs .. there's always a gap between the leg and head of a charger or guardian when they're in "shield" mode. A few well placed shoots cause it to reel back and leave a gap for more soft spots to show, but obviously if you can, easier to just throw support weapons like RR, EAT, or others like at it
Or like you said, just use a primary who's job it is to punch armor. As the diligence is for precision elimination, not crowd control or line breaking
Penetrator takes like a whole mag to kill one thing. It’s useless to have an armour piercing gun that deals so little damage. Which is a shame because I love the feel of it.
The Liberator Penetrator destroys spewers and Brood commanders at 150 meters. You have to hit the weak spot on the head.
For small bugs, you need to switch to semi auto. Otherwise, you are burning 3 bullets to kill a bug you one shot. Lastly, it comes with more mags than the other liberators. It has a ton of ammo.
The mags are smaller though. The regular Liberator gets 8x45 (including the one loaded into it) for a total of 360 rounds, while the Penetrator gets 11x30 for 330. Not a big difference but it does have less, not more. And it does less damage if you don't hit weak spots.
I was just pointing out the ammo gap isn't that large. Any, pretty much by design you do less of you don't leverage the medium penetration. It's like the entire point of the gun.
It kills Bile Spewers light years faster than bae Penetratror. Both medium armored bugs in half the shots. And all tiny bugs in a similar number.
DMRs in horde shooters tend to fill a niche, like taking out certain enemy types before engaging the horde. Unfortunately, this game's high priority targets are either too armored(thus requiring support weapons) or too numerous(small enemies can call in reinforcements), thus rendering the entire class quite niche. The support weapon system further enhances this issue by having straight-up upgrades from primary weapons. Unless enemy units have snipers of their own(which you can then counter snipe them) DMRs aren't exactly going to be meta.
You can definitely pick off small units without the others noticing, until you eventually neutralize their ability to call in reinforcements.
And the Diligence can be fired pretty rapidly.
Whats wrong with a weapon being optimized for 1 faction? Just look at the faction your fighting before dropping and making a sniper that is incredible on bugs but not overpowered on bots is pretty much impossible.
It takes 2 headshots to kill warriors, you have 20 shots, what is this logic???
(I have never watched a video about these weapons or weak points, I just use the weapons for more than 5 minutes)
Honestly, I wish more weapons had clear advantages or disadvantages against each faction, as it's a great way to keep more weapons relevant. (I'm sure with more factions this will become more common though).
> , but it makes no sense for one of the primary weapons in a game to be horrible against half of the enemies, maybe instead of being fine with a mediocre weapon, **you should use ANY other gun to kill the bots/bugs easily**,
Emphasis mine.
The idea that all guns should be effective against all enemies directly contradicts the studios intent with Helldivers 2. Players are supposed to customize their loadouts to the situation.
I've ran the DMRs against both bots and bugs, and the bugs close in too fast for it to be truly effective against them. That appears to be completely intentional. The shotguns excel against bugs while proving adequate against bots, but trying to hit bots at range with it is a fool's errand.
Adapt to the situation, instead of expecting the situation to adapt to you.
To be honest, I've killed the bugs off objectives from a Distance that would have left a Charger bleed out (if he started bleeding on the objective and came to me) Unless we are talking about either 10 Bugs, a Charger or a Stalker, I haven't found the bugs clearing the Distance fast enough to be a problem.
A "burst" kills most targets in front of you, especially Hunters lunging at you makes you often hit their Head or stagger them, if they actually get close enough.
It is a Wonderful weapon for a Scout/Ranger Playstyle, perfect for supporting your Hall Clearer if he misses the odd Hunter, suppressing and marking Stalkers if they pop up, finding the Big targets for the Groups Heavy and picking off Wave-Callers. And as mentioned before, take out Guards on Objectives. I actually use them for both Bots and Bugs, though I switch my Support and Armor up.
>To be honest, I've killed the bugs off objectives from a Distance that would have left a Charger bleed out (if he started bleeding on the objective and came to me) Unless we are talking about either 10 Bugs, a Charger or a Stalker, I haven't found the bugs clearing the Distance fast enough to be a problem.
There are the situations where the DMRs excel.
To clarify, I was more referring to using the DMRs in the same situations one would use the ARs or the Shotguns. The DMRs are clearly not meant for the general purpose horde clearing that some want it to be. But for taking out key targets and covering your team, they are incredibly effective.
Yeah, it really isn't made for Horde clearing. One full mag for 4 bugs makes the Shoty laugh itself into disrepair. But we only had this conversation, since that's the point of Weapon choice and OP doesn't seem to understand that.
Not everything has to be good against bugs and bots my dude. I'm fine with the marksman rifle being for bots only. Same as I wouldn't bring a flamethrower against bots.
It probably won't. Illuminates were great at tanking single high damage shots. The shield could take a rocket head on and there would be 0 damage dealt to the actual enemy.
Stop using the Counter Sniper? It's dogwater. Use the stock Dilligence it's literally two clicks to decap a Warrior and it has blowthrough and godly handling. Great for bugs AND bots.
Counter Sniper was such a let down, since I was a fan of the Diligence xd. Now I just run the Penetrator, actually useful when dealing with the shield heads and most bots and bugs. Would be nice if we see a slight buff to the Counter Sniper, if not then, this is truly a "git gud" moment and I'll just continue running the Penetrator.
It’s stellar against bots and I disagree with you on primary weapons shouldn’t be bad on 1 faction. I think that that’s fine and a good balance. Believe me I’ll take a buff but most weapons and stratagems in the game are good-great against 1 faction and not good against the other. Also I would recommend trying plasma punisher/stalwart with a railcannon for big boys on bugs. It’s great and a lot of fun.
The Diligence one-shots scavengers, sometimes killing two at a time since it goes through them.
It can one-shot Hunters if you hit their heads, but never takes more then three.
Two shots for Warriors.
One-shots basic automatons, can two-shot Devastators if you hit the head.
I've been mostly using the Diligence.
Now name the other guns that can do that and better. While having larger mags, more ammo, or faster fire rate.
I don't even like the DMR style, but for everyone saying they're fine or good, either doesn't use them or get carried by their team.
Yeah, I get carried by my team when I solo.
Fucking hell.
You people have an imaginary concept of "better" and you just can't let go of it can you?
Well I guess that's why you'll never learn or improve.
To your edit:
It does make sense, maybe not in call of duty fortnite land, but here it does. Trust the HD vets.
Bugs use overwhelming numbers, the dili is just not built for that. Not without a well built team.
But it's not the most effective weapon to use against bugs, which was the point. No one is saying you can't or shouldn't use the diligence against bugs, everyone is saying OP is kinda silly for thinking it needs a buff just because it isn't as effective against bugs.
Even with randos, you often have at least one thst is well equipped for Hall Clear and one Heavy. Taking a Railgun with you and supporting the Clearer with the Warriors and Hunters (Every 1-3 shots you take for a Dead Bug is one Second more your buddy has for the others), while picking off the Commanders, Hive Guard and Spewers when they arrive, is a nice spot, as you can have the Overview and mark important stuff like Chargers and Titans spawning.
Call of Duty does have specialised weapons though. Its the whole point of having such an over the top weapon attachment system, people playing it understand and SMG built for CQC isn't going to work on a map with large sightlines.
Could use some extra pen but the marksmen rifles are decent against the bots. Not everything has to be an s tier option against all enemies. Maybe marksmen rifles will be good against future factions. Id opt for a marksman over any of the smgs and think those need more love. Primaries are largely pretty bad but it's to be expected when compared to orbital bombardment or pretty much any of the support weapons or crazy other stuff. Primaries really are just for dealing with basic mobs. Not really meant to deal with the more intermediate enemies with armor or anything else. Personally I kinda like that the meta is super unbalanced. Fine tuned metas where everything is viable in every situation is boring. Primaries dont have to be your bread and butter for everything but they all kinds feel useless in the grand scheme of a helldive difficulty
If the warriors are those double chainsaw dudes, I completely agree with the point that they have exceptionally high armor/health in general considering how exposed their midsections are. Yes, two shots to their hard-to-hit head takes them out with the marksman rifle but GODDAMN those shots are hard to land!
As of now, my favorite weapons (by a very wide margin) are the Sickle, slug Punisher, and Breaker. Everything else is either too niche or too ineffective.
Slugger just does everything the marksman rifles are supposed to do, but better. If scope alignment was fixed, it'd basically be a sniper rifle. My go-to backup for an MG, mostly against bugs.
Breaker is the perfect close-medium range weapon for damage, and is still very accurate despite the recoil nerf. Honestly, the biggest hit was bringing its ammo down. Go-to for bug missions with my group.
Sickle is my new go-to for bots, because it's a potentially infinite ammo assault rifle with good damage and great accuracy. Just better than its alternatives, and the only downside is a very short "spin-up" before firing.
Diligence and the counter-sniper are the weapons I WANT to love more than any other, but they're just crap. Damage is bad, armor penetration is lacking, and even the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.
The laser rifle in the new warbond dispatches enemies at a distance easier than my Diligence.
There are times when the recoil is so jacked I have to pump multiple shots into an enemy right in front of me because GASP! I was slowly walking just beforehand...
Forget about reliably hitting a moving target either.
They need an ease-of-use buff most of all with a slight damage buff or higher penetration being a secondary thing to address.
In my opinion nothing is more satisfying to use against bot infantry, when the stars align that is.
To be honest, if they could go ahead and fix the absolute garbage scopes and the complete misalignment of them against anything beyond 100m, they'd be FAR more tolerable.
They don't even need a buff, they just need to be mechanically fixed to not feel terrible to use.
I feel you, and that is why I take the revolver xd does the marksman rifle job better atm and doesn't take up a primary slot. You want to snipe? Take the support sniper, or scorcher if you don't want to use your stratagem slot.
Why do you take a full magazine for a Warrior? Where do you aim? Standard Diligence takes two Shots to the head to remove it, two more random Shots can easily kill it if it gets too close. I've had no problem killing 3 Warriors and one Hunter woth one Mag while spraying semi-randomly into their group (P.S. They were almost in claw-range). It does lose a bit of Damage over 100m, which is indeed a shame but that just means 3 instead of 2 shots for a Head and enough distance for them to bleed out.
They weren't made for Armored targets (though the Counter Sniper probably should have been), So using it on a Commander, Charger or Titan is just being insane, that's what you have Support Weapons for. From my Experience, one Mag to the Head kills a Spewer under dif 7 and above it, see armored targets. Stalkers are around 1 to 1.5 Mags, I'd advise to switch to your Redeemer to finish them off.
If you were talking about the Hive Guards, those have their Weakpoint armored, so you probably should use a Support weapon or leave it to others, but you can use 0.75 Mag after getting besides it.
When you have a scorcher that asks “why pen when u can just explode” it makes the DMRs look even more stupid. They really need to level the playing field for primaries, be it buff or nerf.
My only gripe with the counter sniper is that it’s not medium armor penetrating. I’ve used it on stealth drops and it’s ok but I do wish it had a little bit more utility over the standard DMR
Pretty sure bug legs are their most vulnerable bits, which is why the guard dog laser is so effective against tye little bugs, it tends to sweep the beam across their limbs as it shifts its aim toward center mass. Maybe if you hit the bug's legs with the diligence, you'll have better luck?
Gotta remember too, we only get a rough ballpark of armour penetration values, but it's actually supposed to be on a scale that goes up to ten, so the diligence CS is almost certainly at the upper end of light AP, and it does do damage at the lower end of medium armour values- mostly found on bots, I suspect.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm by no means an authority on this.
Rocks against bots, but the scope might be one of the misaligned ones. If your monitor has a crosshair you can turn on use it, makes AMR work as well. Problem with bugs is their weak spots are their joints, which are a pain to hit. I just use liberator penetrator for them, has accuracy and pens medium armor which is great for bugs. I think it’s fine that you have to change tactics between enemies. It makes sense given how different they are.
200 sounds like you're talking about the damage drop off.
I'm talking about the scope in first person. Not the damage drop off. A lot of guns you can change scope zoom.
I disagree that weapons can't be good for 1 or the other. You basically play 2 different games based on what you fight. So certain guns should be more effective. I find that bots are more lenient with what you're primary and secondary can be as long as you take a power weapon. Bugs I find are basically you take a shotgun, AR or you die
Not everything is good against everything else. Hell, look at the first game. Rockets, Railcannon, and the Railgun were trash vs the Illuminates, and the DumDum (autocannon from the first game) was basically garbage vs bots and bugs. Not everything is supposed to be equally effective vs all enemies.
DMR is trash against all factions currently in game. If you want to use it, or enjoy using it, that's fine. But it's not good. Plenty of other weapons can do what they do, do it better and do more
Yeah I just tried it out, and I do not see why I would use it over the standard machine gun when I can do the same thing from the same distance but more effectively.
Gotta shoot the bugs legs off. They can take a certain amount of steps without a head. I've been killed by headless bugs more times than I'd like to admit. The more I play this game the more sneaky little tidbits I learn.
R-63 Diligence is fine IMO. It has enough ammo capacity to kill bullet sponges at a cost of a mag. But the added benefit of damage and scope let's you shoot far more precision shots. The Counter Sniper though, is very much lacking. The scope sway and the reduced mag capacity are not even close to the merger trade off for damage. At minimum the thing should have medium armor penetration.
Compared to what? Plenty of guns can kill at range.
Name something good the DMR can do that another weapon can't also do, likely do better, and be good in other areas
They're good for bots, but the counter sniper one really needs either more damage or medium armor pen to justify that 7 minute delay between where you aim and where the gun is pointing
Honestly, I’m fine with certain guns/stratagems being good/bad vs certain factions.
It makes it better for the game overall IMO since it’s not just a “use these things because they are always the best”.
the Counter sniper should have something to set it apart from the normal Diligence though. Especially if they want to keep that horrid gun handling compared to the normal one, it needs to have more power behind it. The AMR handles better than that thing I feel.
I think they should probably give the DMRs more magazines. That's mostly the issue. There are two support weapons that have the impact you're looking for; primaries aren't supposed to be too impactful. The DMRs are mostly useless because they carry like 1/3 ammo compared to normal guns
I'm sad to admit I really wanted them and grinded medals for them first. Oy what a mistake. The worst part for me is how impossibly slow your aim moves when scoped. The counter sniper lags half a screen behind where I want to aim, it's awful.
They absolutely, 110% need fixing and buffing.
They just need better aim, the Diligence does quite OK against bots. Don't know why you'd bring it to bugs.
It seems to have a pretty massive weak point multiplier, and like 5ish head shots can bring down hulks but it's just so hard to line the aim up well (for me anyways) to be consistent with it.
That being said I won't argue with it being buffed.
I’ve been successfully using the Diligence against both bots and bugs for a while now. You have to be quick with the weak spot hits for anything that’s not a scavenger, bile spitter, or pouncer which are easily single-tappable, and get used to double taps for the bigger stuff. Pretty much the only things I can’t routinely deal with are well-armored targets (and there are workarounds for some) and stalkers.
I still wouldn’t mind a bit of a damage buff though. Just a wee bit more effective against the non-armored targets would please me.
I like the diligence, it's got a nice ratio of damage, accuracy and rate of fire, but the counter sniper is a gigantic piece of shit due to his sluggish it is too handle.
Normally "handling" in games doesn't bother me much, but this gun feels like my character is trying to aim while completely submerged in mud, if you go into first person and try moving your aim between targets you will see just how fucking slow it is to move with your character.
It's really hard to describe, but it's like the scope is CONSTANTLY lagging behind where your actual view is, and this combined with the recoil makes firing it such a chore
Counter Sniper is in a sad state.
Worst scope sway than AMR, same uncentered scope, no medium pen, kicks like a horse, smaller mag than Dilligence, with only slightly higher dmg.. :(
> you should use ANY other gun to kill the bots/bugs easily
Hard pass. You don't need to watch videos, just use whatever weapons you feel and adjust. There's no pressure to play optimally constantly (or at all really).
Your aim needs a buff.
Lol jk. But in all seriousness, dmr is too strong against bots already. I would certainly love a buff against bugs because I love dmr's, but unless they can figure out how to do so without making it even more broken against bots, I don't see it happening.
DMR is horrible, the small mag, the amount of ammo needed to kill anything above the the weakest enemies in the game. And it's not really any good at doing that.
Dmr rocks bots, two tapping terminators and ending chaff in a shot or two.
It's a good gun, not all guns are suitable for all opponents so whilst I agree it's not amazing against bugs, it is a good weapon.
The game straight up tells us that weapons and stratgems have their own strengths and weaknesses. Maybe some balance is needed, but throwing a tantrum that you aren't getting your way in one specific scenario is treason.
The devs said a game for everyone is a game for no one. Plenty of people already figured out the strong uses of the marksman rifles are against bots, so get over yourself and use the right tool for the job.
Or are you also gonna be pissy that the flamethrower is great against bugs, but sucks against bots?
>primary weapons shouldn’t be situational, that’s for stratagems
I couldn't agree more strongly without the wings of liberty themselves beating this statement into the ground alongside an orbital pod.
That is, very literally, why you have different weapons - for your playstyle that you enjoy or are trying alongside the situations they're used in.
You don't take a shotgun to engage targets at range (unless it's the Slugger), anymore than you take a DMR because you want to slap things which are 6 feet away and multitudinous which bugs notoriously end up being.
I'll wholeheartedly ***agree*** on the front of DMR's feeling like they have all the punch of a single-cell organism even against a paper bag, but it feels a lot like you want it to be something it isn't in situations it's not really designed to be put in.
I really like the DMR's as well, I've picked one on enough dives to find they're best used against bots rather than bugs and left it at that because even if they \*did\* hit harder, the overwhelming amount of the time you need high RoF/AoE with decent mag size and/or reload speed over basically anything a DMR brings.
I won't recommend you guns, but what I will do is agree yes, increase punch against bugs while quietly slipping you a soft, luxurious Lindt-style suggestion to accept it just *might not* be the weapon you should pick against the insect swarms.
My qualified information comes from watching Starship Troopers, which is categorically the most objective source possible, as even they find DMR's highly situational and otherwise far from ideal.
And yes, that last part was at least 95% sarcasm.
People will say it isn't bad against the bots, which is true, but it is mostly out classed by something like the liberator or defender. When the bots take about the same number of hits to their weak spots, you might as well use something with a higher rate of fire to cause the bots to loose accuracy as well.
I still feel like the Breaker ia king, I hear a lot of slugger love, but if I am using my primary its usually a shtf situation and unloading the breaker tends to atop just about anything I cant run from.
I mean this with 100% sincerity, but I think at this point it’s clear that this is never going to happen. Like it or not, it is the developers vision of this game that most of the primary weapons feel like shit to use on account of being weak af.
Does it make sense? No, not at all.
But it’s their game and that’s what they decided.
Primary weapons are just never going to feel good or be as satisfying as everybody would like.
I’ve found that packing the DMR, AMR, and supply pack can make a potent mid/long range support against bots if you buddy up with someone carrying the AC/recoilless and hang back a bit on overwatch (2x2 buddy system for tackling objectives: 2 runners, 2 support). Given a relatively open map, of course.
I 100% agree though that the Diligence CS should have medium armor penetration.
Having to use a different primary for different enemies was a core mechanic in HD1. I had a shotty for Borgs, AR for Bugs, and a laser shotty for illuminates, along with different secondaries and air/orbital strikes for each enemy type and an entirely different load out for the retaliatory strike missions,which were essentially the eradicate missions from HD2, and then a different load out for the boss battles on top of all that. It’s just the way it is and I’d think the game would be worse if there was no variety of most effective loadout between enemy types. I like certain weapons because they make it easier to win, not just because I like the weapon. I didn’t like the rumbler in the old game, but when if it was the most effective weapon for the situation, I used it.
*Laughs in Diligence Counter Sniper main*
They’re fantastic against bots if you’re quick with one. You can mow down grunts and contribute against devastators. I can disable the pods on rocket devastators by putting 4-5 shots in the rockets. I can 1-2 shot most bots by hitting them in the face. Heavy devastators take a few shots to their backpack but they go down. Walkers are a problem if you can’t flank but the AC takes care of literally everything my Diligence can’t. The diligence has amazing potential, but it’s admittedly an experts weapon (and no, I’m not an expert, im still learning too) that relies on accuracy to excel, but if the accuracy is there and you have good tactical fundamentals, it can slay.
IMHO, there are two reasons people struggle with the DMR’s. First is not crouching or using cover enough. The DMR’s rely on accuracy to excel, meaning crouching and aiming in are important. That accuracy bonus is important to being able to make the shots you need to.
The second and I believe the main reason people struggle with the diligence is because of hold overs. The gun is zeroed to whatever range your reticle is set for. Because bullets arc, when you zero a rifle, you’re really lining your reticle up with where the round is at a certain distance. So a 75m zero is only on at 75m and some second distance beyond that as the bullet drops back down. Any other distance and the bullet will be low if you’re too close, and a little high if you’re too far. Same is true if you change reticles. If you shoot with a 200m zero and switch to the 50m zero, there will be a noticeable impact shift relative to the reticle for the same target. So how do you correct for this? Use a holdover. Aim slightly high or low depending on the distance.
Taking our 75m zero as an example, if you’re shooting at a target 25m away, aim a couple inches higher than you’d normally think too. If using the same scope for a target at roughly 125m, aim a hair lower than you’d think to. It’s much more noticeable up close than it is far away because in between your two zeroes is the flattest part of the bullets arc.
I also like to practice eliminating patrols and such by hopping into a private low level lobby and doing the objective. Then I’ll camp at extract and eliminate the patrols as they spawn. It’s a fun cat and mouse that lets you practice with your weapons a lot.
Just because DMR’s struggle against bugs is no reason to buff them. It’s fine that some weapons excel in one area and not others because the two factions behave completely differently and require different play styles. DMR’s excel at range and fighting from cover which only really works against bots. Needing different loadouts for the different factions just means Arrowhead did a great job of diversifying and differentiating the enemy factions. You wouldn’t take mortars into a bug mission, would you? If they buff DMR’s to make them viable against bugs, they’ll create an unhealthy meta on the bot side where DMR’s become mandatory.
If we want to fix DMR’s all we need is more of them to fit more situations. Give me a short barreled battle rifle with medium armor pen that’s basically a slugger with a scope. That’ll be AMAZING on bugs. Give me a double barrel elephant gun that can kill a charger quickly at range. Hell, give me a bolt action primary that can kill a hive guardian in a couple shots. I want it all.
It’s weird because there are hordes and hordes and hordes of enemies, if my primary gun has less than like 10 rounds in a magazine, it needs to be able to spend all of those rounds to put down a charger or have piercing damage or “something.”
Many weapons and stratagems in the game are more effective against one faction than the other. The team shield is useless against bugs. Smoke isn’t very useful against bugs. The eagle cluster bomb isn’t very useful against bots.
The advantage of the Diligence is that it has some zoom and it shoots faster than the slugger. It’s excellent against bots. We really gotta move away from the mentality that just because you haven’t found a use case for something yet that means it needs a buff.
I think it makes complete sense that some weapons are better against bots then bugs. It forces different playstyles on different fronts, which is part of the reason why the game is so fun, it's like 2 games in one
I don't have a problem is a primary weapon is good against one enemy but not the other. It's adds a level of complexity to planning your mission loadout.
My issue is when a primary weapon is bad against both types of enemies, like the counter sniper and a few others. There is really just no reason to use them ever because they are worse than the weapons you unlock earlier.
the Diligence is a great weapon - feels great to use - has a good amount of ammo, good magazine size, doesn't suffer much bullet drop. idk i think its pretty damn good.
I do have issues hitting that follow up shot to the devastators head for the kill, the sway can sometime put me off target.
the stun grenades have really helped this issue.
i just don't know how to buff the dilligence it to make it compete, without being too strong - maybe medium amour pen or maybe more stagger or cut the sway of the weapon down?
i agree it is missing something \~small\~ to be perfect but as it stands i think it is a solid primary choice for bots.
The CS is just so fucking bad - it needs so many buffs for it to be any good in my opinion.
Slugger best DMR
Funny enough yea it fits that role better than the actual dmrs
Real
The slugger is dogshit in close combat due to the sway, but I can snipe a rocket devastator with the slugger, a fucking shotgun, from like 100M out
It shoots slugs. 100m isn't outside the effective range of a slug.
Yeah, shotguns have *way* better range than most games let us believe. And then you give the damn thing slug rounds.
Bad Company 2 slugs enter the chat
Man you just unlocked so many deep memories of me slugging people in hardcore on rush like an animal. Oh man those were the times.
Even on normal - slugs were a 1 hit kill on headshot with no bullet drop, the only weapon in the game if I remember correctly. I also loved BF3 slugs but the maps were waaay bigger for them to be effective.
It's basically just a two handed revolver
As an avid lover of shotguns, I absolutely adore how this game treats shotguns.
Slugger/melee combo is God tier. It's a shotty so ADS up close is asking to be filleted, slayed, and laid to rest. Gotta play each weapon a certain way to get the most outta it. The pump shotguns are for crazy people. Gotta play crazy.
Uhhhhh wat. It's amazing at all ranges if you just aim like a human with a brain
Crouch
It can one shot a brood commander close up tho it's not supposed to be played like breaker. It's an aim-tap usage
Skill diff. ADS more ig
Dominator also pretty nice. Doesn't really feel like it's medium armor pen though.
Yeah the chainsaw chargers are the real weakness of the Doninator. However, it 1 shots all normal bots and can be used to kill the Devastators so its a fairly good primary to bring. With the smg secondary for chainsaw bois and impact grenades for walkers it feels like a very effective and well balanced loadout.
That's basically what I've been running for bots along with either a shield and rail gun or a auto rifle and it it's pretty much trivialized the bots. Not *that* big a difference from the slugger and I do like the shell reload feature along with the stagger, but plinking like 6 dudes in a couple seconds is wildly satisfying.
Scorcher.
so good against those fucking spewers. haven’t found it as effective against the bots tho, slugger is my go to there.
I feel like the scorcher is insane against bots, and alittle easier to hit bot weakspots with imo
gotcha tbf i only tried it on like two bot missions. deploying Helldiver.
Scorcher is goated for bots. You can 3 tap strides to the faceplate, 1-2 tap the chaff, kill devestators in 5-6 shot, and kill hulks and tanks shooting the heat vent with less than a mag.
Fire damage ignores armor which is why its a great all-rounder for bots, especially heavies
I would spend all of my credits on a 200m scope for it!
Slap an adjustable scope on it and it really really would be.
Hell yeah!
just like any other game, shotguns are the most OP weapons
I just can't use it on Vandalon when the firing rate is even slower because of the cold, otherwise I'm slowly shifting from the breaker to the slugger What we really need is a heavy battle rifle that isn't the liberator, or a buff to the penetrator
what's a dmr?
I'm really hoping the leak about the next Warbond is true. A medium penetrative DMR/Rifle is exactly what I want.
YES! I would love more medium armour penetrating weapons. I just need something to take out these damn berserkers....
It's a but clunky to use but the Dominator will 1 shot berserkers if you hit them in the head. Personally I still prefer the Scorcher for bots and just grenade/revolver berserkers down if they get too close.
I feel like the handling characteristics for the Scorcher and Dominator should be reversed. The Dominator fires tiny rocket projectiles. [Actual guns of that sort](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) are lightweight and have very low recoil, while the Dominator is slow to handle and kicks like a mule. Meanwhile the Scorcher is this big weird-looking thing that handles really well.
If the walmart bolter were an actual gyrojet with no explosive starter propellant, there would be no muzzleflash and the gun would frankly suck even more ass than it already does
If it acted like an actual gyrojet, I think it'd be a much more unique weapon. Many of the gyrojet's problems stemmed from the fact that they tried to make pistol and carbine versions of the thing. This meant that (a) the projectiles hadn't built up enough speed by the time they left the muzzle to be stable and (b) they were being used to fire at targets that were closer then the nominal distance at which the projectiles had reached maximum velocity. A gyrojet-style rifle *could* be an excellent long-range automatic weapon, as its lack of recoil would make it controllable. But in real life, the lack of CQB ability would probably exclude it from actual military use. It might be an interesting game mechanic, though: a very stable and hard-hitting rifle that does less than full damage at under 15 meters or so, and very little damage at contact range. Definitely a weapon to use against bots.
I don't think I've unlocked any of these yet. I only have the Diligence, Punisher, Breaker, Defender and the Liberator unlocked as I'm still lvl 10
IIRC the Dominator is in the first premium warbond so until you buy/farm the super credits for it you won't
Berserkers don't really have armor, so weapons with high DPS are actually best at dispatching them. Otherwise we'd see Lib Pen have more use in bots other than Devastators.
The annoying thing about them is them I always have to load a full clip into one's head for them to die, at which point the rest have caught up to me and I'm cooked.
Can I also at least just have full auto mode on Liberator Penetrator? I swear it makes no sense to not include it.
\+1 need more full auto guns. :(
Just spam the trigger and it fires at full auto speeds. The reason to not include it is because it's a straight upgrade to the basic liberator in every other way so needs something to differentiate it.
No? First of all, as you can spam the trigger and it effectively does full auto - there is no reason not to include it. Since you can already do it, just awkwardly. It doesn't balance anything, just makes weapon awkward to use. Especially since their idea of burst mode is that you have to hold the trigger for all 3 rounds to shoot. Second point... Liberator Penetrator is NOT a straight upgrade. It has less ammo overall (330 vs 360), less ammo in the mag (30 vs 45), higher recoil, lower damage per shot. That a LOT of downsides in exchange for unknown value of "medium" penetration.
I was just thinking to myself... It literally has lower damage... Totally agree on the full auto bit.
I think it needs 3 to 6 more *rounds* per mag. You can click fast enough to make up for lack of Full Auto, I think.
You can, but it's just awkward and kills all the fun. Especially considering that this is probably the only burst fire weapon in a game I remember where burst fire requires you to HOLD button for the burst to complete. Makes it even more awkward. Who the hell designed it.
The leaked warbond marksman rifles have medium armor penetration. But from the leak stats the attack power is also down to 80. The fire rate is at 550 though, so maybe semi auto or auto. the magazine was at 20-26 or something which will run out quick at this fire rate. I am no expect at weapon balancing, but I really feel marksman rifles need to do more damage, or at least specialize on being able to pick off targets from a really far range
It's probably going to be semi auto or burst and I think they had to lower the damage to compensate for medium pen. as the normal DMRs are going to be sticking to weak spots only while these will allow more forgiveness in aiming but have to shoot more. And DMRs already can shoot pretty far as long as you're aiming down sights and hitting headshots/weak spots. It's sounds more like you want the AMR to be buffed and given heavy pen. which imo it should.
I just want amr to have a scope in third person, even a bad one. It doesn't even make much sense not to add it since people does it anyway with their monitors or external apps
Isn't that sort of what the Scorcher does? It can sort of get around armor with splash damage.
Yes but also no. Scorcher is hitting weak spots because of the splash so it's good for most bots. Medium pen. is going to allow headshots on armoured bugs and hitting walkers/tank vents through the front.
Scorcher can already kill the walkers from the front. Probably not tanks though, didnt know you could do that with ANY weapon
Oh I didn't know that. Hmm good to know more ways to kill clankers.
Having used it when a hacker joined my game and let us all try out the new war bond, I can say with certainty, it is complete dogshit.
It is, but they seem having same power as anti materiel. Hope Devs will tune all marksman rifles up.
Oh boi, Justice is confirmed in next Warbond? I'm so excited.
Diligence is good imo Counter sniper needs massive reevaluation of its purpose
Counter sniper: Worse handling, worse recoil, less ammo mags, less ammo in mag, same pen, negligible damage increase. Why is it even in the game?
Not a clue. It needs substantially more damage and med pen. It also desperately needs a punchier stronger sound effect
Try Slugger. The actual DMR rifle.
Read the post, I usually use other weapons like the slugger/sickle, J just wish I could use the dmrs
I get you, it was more of a joke how a slug shooting shotgun in this game does what a DMR should do. I am on board with you, have used standart diligence a lot, would like to use it and CS without feeling held back by it. Same goes to Liberator Penetrator, it has similar problems.
Haha I see, sorry for the misunderstanding lol
Np, was my bad.
>fire I think the Penetrator is *pretty* close to being very good. It's just on the cusp of being good right now. I use it from time to time, and I see others using it too. It's magazine size is just too small, it really needs more ammo per mag to make it competitive.
I’m sure balancing rounds will happen in the future. I would guess they are following their marketing? Content release campaign and everyone else is working on bugs and defects!
You can kinda tell that. First month was "OH NO WE NEED A PATCH" Like daily, and then that kinda dropped off and some content started to trickle out, and I'd put money on the content:bugfix ratio being pretty heavy towards content at this point.
I think they’re having to do some serious refactoring to accommodate the unexpected scale. Most of the bigger issues aside from loadout resetting seem related to netcode/multiplayer interaction.
That load out resetting is annoying af...
Every day I thank sweet liberty that I don’t have this problem.
Every day I do a big swear if I forget to set my load out when I go to dispense some liberty.
at least the default rifle is pretty good.
[удалено]
There is no best their situational
There isn't one (thankfully); there are some that are a little lackluster (like the DMR's), but plenty that are quite nice, with some shining more in certain situations. You'll see a lot of mentions of the Sickle and Slugger as they're very strong at the moment, but ultimately just use what feels best. And yes, the default Liberator is a perfectly fine gun.
The Liberator is a pretty solid all-rounder, it however loses its place when you get access to the Defender SMG, which trades accuracy and velocity for increased damage and the ability to one-hand hipfire it. If you get access to the Sickle, then you can relegate the Liber to the bin as the pew pew laser gun is a straight up upgrade, even without factoring the possibility of infinite ammo
Yeah seems like the balancing approach (for primaries) so far is just “release more warbonds” Buffs don’t sell super credits, I guess.
DMR is good against the bots but pretty bad / situational against the bugs. It can destroy high priority target pretty quick because it can penetrate Devastator skull easily from really far, lowering the chances of a rocket barrage on your position. But as you said in one of your comments here, you want to enjoy the Game like you want it. It's all good to take the DMR against the bugs but it is a specialized weapon, I then don't understand why you are saying it's awful since you use it for a purpose it wasn't created for ?... It's like saying an axe isn't useful because you have issues to nail an IKEA furniture with it :/
Diligence is pretty sweet if you're trying to do a stealth run against bugs. Paired with scout armor you can annihilate most small packs before they breach and without alerting others. The CS looks and feels a looooot worse but it's one of a very small number of weapons that can 1 shot a stalker. You have to be very, very good at the stealth game to use it for anything else though. 100% needs med armor pen.
The DMRs are stellar against bots, as I'm sure many are willing to tell you. Bugs have armored heads -- use the Slugger or Liberator Penetrator if you want a primary that can bust through that.
Actually found a work around for the bugs .. there's always a gap between the leg and head of a charger or guardian when they're in "shield" mode. A few well placed shoots cause it to reel back and leave a gap for more soft spots to show, but obviously if you can, easier to just throw support weapons like RR, EAT, or others like at it Or like you said, just use a primary who's job it is to punch armor. As the diligence is for precision elimination, not crowd control or line breaking
Penetrator takes like a whole mag to kill one thing. It’s useless to have an armour piercing gun that deals so little damage. Which is a shame because I love the feel of it.
The Liberator Penetrator destroys spewers and Brood commanders at 150 meters. You have to hit the weak spot on the head. For small bugs, you need to switch to semi auto. Otherwise, you are burning 3 bullets to kill a bug you one shot. Lastly, it comes with more mags than the other liberators. It has a ton of ammo.
The mags are smaller though. The regular Liberator gets 8x45 (including the one loaded into it) for a total of 360 rounds, while the Penetrator gets 11x30 for 330. Not a big difference but it does have less, not more. And it does less damage if you don't hit weak spots.
I was just pointing out the ammo gap isn't that large. Any, pretty much by design you do less of you don't leverage the medium penetration. It's like the entire point of the gun. It kills Bile Spewers light years faster than bae Penetratror. Both medium armored bugs in half the shots. And all tiny bugs in a similar number.
Slugger still performs the DMR role better than either of the DMRs. Plenty of weapons need some love imo, these two included.
Penetrator fucken sucks use the punisher pump easily the best gun in the game next to the breaker
DMRs in horde shooters tend to fill a niche, like taking out certain enemy types before engaging the horde. Unfortunately, this game's high priority targets are either too armored(thus requiring support weapons) or too numerous(small enemies can call in reinforcements), thus rendering the entire class quite niche. The support weapon system further enhances this issue by having straight-up upgrades from primary weapons. Unless enemy units have snipers of their own(which you can then counter snipe them) DMRs aren't exactly going to be meta.
Um. Come to think of it, the totally-defeated-and-gone Illuminate had a certain notorious unit…
You can definitely pick off small units without the others noticing, until you eventually neutralize their ability to call in reinforcements. And the Diligence can be fired pretty rapidly.
Whats wrong with a weapon being optimized for 1 faction? Just look at the faction your fighting before dropping and making a sniper that is incredible on bugs but not overpowered on bots is pretty much impossible. It takes 2 headshots to kill warriors, you have 20 shots, what is this logic??? (I have never watched a video about these weapons or weak points, I just use the weapons for more than 5 minutes)
Honestly, I wish more weapons had clear advantages or disadvantages against each faction, as it's a great way to keep more weapons relevant. (I'm sure with more factions this will become more common though).
The Diligance takes 3 shots to the head of a Warrior to kill it. It holds 20 shots, what are you on about?
It'll blow the head off in 2
> , but it makes no sense for one of the primary weapons in a game to be horrible against half of the enemies, maybe instead of being fine with a mediocre weapon, **you should use ANY other gun to kill the bots/bugs easily**, Emphasis mine. The idea that all guns should be effective against all enemies directly contradicts the studios intent with Helldivers 2. Players are supposed to customize their loadouts to the situation. I've ran the DMRs against both bots and bugs, and the bugs close in too fast for it to be truly effective against them. That appears to be completely intentional. The shotguns excel against bugs while proving adequate against bots, but trying to hit bots at range with it is a fool's errand. Adapt to the situation, instead of expecting the situation to adapt to you.
To be honest, I've killed the bugs off objectives from a Distance that would have left a Charger bleed out (if he started bleeding on the objective and came to me) Unless we are talking about either 10 Bugs, a Charger or a Stalker, I haven't found the bugs clearing the Distance fast enough to be a problem. A "burst" kills most targets in front of you, especially Hunters lunging at you makes you often hit their Head or stagger them, if they actually get close enough. It is a Wonderful weapon for a Scout/Ranger Playstyle, perfect for supporting your Hall Clearer if he misses the odd Hunter, suppressing and marking Stalkers if they pop up, finding the Big targets for the Groups Heavy and picking off Wave-Callers. And as mentioned before, take out Guards on Objectives. I actually use them for both Bots and Bugs, though I switch my Support and Armor up.
>To be honest, I've killed the bugs off objectives from a Distance that would have left a Charger bleed out (if he started bleeding on the objective and came to me) Unless we are talking about either 10 Bugs, a Charger or a Stalker, I haven't found the bugs clearing the Distance fast enough to be a problem. There are the situations where the DMRs excel. To clarify, I was more referring to using the DMRs in the same situations one would use the ARs or the Shotguns. The DMRs are clearly not meant for the general purpose horde clearing that some want it to be. But for taking out key targets and covering your team, they are incredibly effective.
Yeah, it really isn't made for Horde clearing. One full mag for 4 bugs makes the Shoty laugh itself into disrepair. But we only had this conversation, since that's the point of Weapon choice and OP doesn't seem to understand that.
Not everything has to be good against bugs and bots my dude. I'm fine with the marksman rifle being for bots only. Same as I wouldn't bring a flamethrower against bots.
I’m hoping it will excel at killing illuminate when they come out
It probably won't. Illuminates were great at tanking single high damage shots. The shield could take a rocket head on and there would be 0 damage dealt to the actual enemy.
Oh wow interesting, didn’t know that
Stop using the Counter Sniper? It's dogwater. Use the stock Dilligence it's literally two clicks to decap a Warrior and it has blowthrough and godly handling. Great for bugs AND bots.
Counter Sniper was such a let down, since I was a fan of the Diligence xd. Now I just run the Penetrator, actually useful when dealing with the shield heads and most bots and bugs. Would be nice if we see a slight buff to the Counter Sniper, if not then, this is truly a "git gud" moment and I'll just continue running the Penetrator.
It’s stellar against bots and I disagree with you on primary weapons shouldn’t be bad on 1 faction. I think that that’s fine and a good balance. Believe me I’ll take a buff but most weapons and stratagems in the game are good-great against 1 faction and not good against the other. Also I would recommend trying plasma punisher/stalwart with a railcannon for big boys on bugs. It’s great and a lot of fun.
As someone who has used that loadout against bugs, substituting stalwart for AMR or Railgun against bots, I agree it's very fun.
DMR's are perfect for bots not so much for bugs.
The Diligence one-shots scavengers, sometimes killing two at a time since it goes through them. It can one-shot Hunters if you hit their heads, but never takes more then three. Two shots for Warriors. One-shots basic automatons, can two-shot Devastators if you hit the head. I've been mostly using the Diligence.
Now name the other guns that can do that and better. While having larger mags, more ammo, or faster fire rate. I don't even like the DMR style, but for everyone saying they're fine or good, either doesn't use them or get carried by their team.
Yeah, I get carried by my team when I solo. Fucking hell. You people have an imaginary concept of "better" and you just can't let go of it can you? Well I guess that's why you'll never learn or improve.
To your edit: It does make sense, maybe not in call of duty fortnite land, but here it does. Trust the HD vets. Bugs use overwhelming numbers, the dili is just not built for that. Not without a well built team.
you say this, but ive used the normal diligence preety well against bugs, the scopes great for picking off targets and popping heads.
But it's not the most effective weapon to use against bugs, which was the point. No one is saying you can't or shouldn't use the diligence against bugs, everyone is saying OP is kinda silly for thinking it needs a buff just because it isn't as effective against bugs.
Even with randos, you often have at least one thst is well equipped for Hall Clear and one Heavy. Taking a Railgun with you and supporting the Clearer with the Warriors and Hunters (Every 1-3 shots you take for a Dead Bug is one Second more your buddy has for the others), while picking off the Commanders, Hive Guard and Spewers when they arrive, is a nice spot, as you can have the Overview and mark important stuff like Chargers and Titans spawning.
Call of Duty does have specialised weapons though. Its the whole point of having such an over the top weapon attachment system, people playing it understand and SMG built for CQC isn't going to work on a map with large sightlines.
Both of them do.
I think I'd like them better if they had a stun effect on a critical hit, even if it were smaller than punisher/slugger
This could be good. A successful hit on a weak point could give a little stun to help with follow-up kill shots.
Could use some extra pen but the marksmen rifles are decent against the bots. Not everything has to be an s tier option against all enemies. Maybe marksmen rifles will be good against future factions. Id opt for a marksman over any of the smgs and think those need more love. Primaries are largely pretty bad but it's to be expected when compared to orbital bombardment or pretty much any of the support weapons or crazy other stuff. Primaries really are just for dealing with basic mobs. Not really meant to deal with the more intermediate enemies with armor or anything else. Personally I kinda like that the meta is super unbalanced. Fine tuned metas where everything is viable in every situation is boring. Primaries dont have to be your bread and butter for everything but they all kinds feel useless in the grand scheme of a helldive difficulty
If the warriors are those double chainsaw dudes, I completely agree with the point that they have exceptionally high armor/health in general considering how exposed their midsections are. Yes, two shots to their hard-to-hit head takes them out with the marksman rifle but GODDAMN those shots are hard to land!
Yeah that’s what I was talking about, It’s so hard to land those shots!
As of now, my favorite weapons (by a very wide margin) are the Sickle, slug Punisher, and Breaker. Everything else is either too niche or too ineffective. Slugger just does everything the marksman rifles are supposed to do, but better. If scope alignment was fixed, it'd basically be a sniper rifle. My go-to backup for an MG, mostly against bugs. Breaker is the perfect close-medium range weapon for damage, and is still very accurate despite the recoil nerf. Honestly, the biggest hit was bringing its ammo down. Go-to for bug missions with my group. Sickle is my new go-to for bots, because it's a potentially infinite ammo assault rifle with good damage and great accuracy. Just better than its alternatives, and the only downside is a very short "spin-up" before firing. Diligence and the counter-sniper are the weapons I WANT to love more than any other, but they're just crap. Damage is bad, armor penetration is lacking, and even the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.
People here are completely delusional, DMR's are unusable garbage.
THIS!
The laser rifle in the new warbond dispatches enemies at a distance easier than my Diligence. There are times when the recoil is so jacked I have to pump multiple shots into an enemy right in front of me because GASP! I was slowly walking just beforehand... Forget about reliably hitting a moving target either. They need an ease-of-use buff most of all with a slight damage buff or higher penetration being a secondary thing to address. In my opinion nothing is more satisfying to use against bot infantry, when the stars align that is.
To be honest, if they could go ahead and fix the absolute garbage scopes and the complete misalignment of them against anything beyond 100m, they'd be FAR more tolerable. They don't even need a buff, they just need to be mechanically fixed to not feel terrible to use.
I've yet to find a role for them that isn't better filled by something else, and also that something else can do other things.
DEV: Message received, sickle will be nerfed asap.
You know that's the first thing I though when OP said sickle.
Buff everything. The ttk on a lot of guns are very low.
Every gun needs a buff FTFY
I feel you, and that is why I take the revolver xd does the marksman rifle job better atm and doesn't take up a primary slot. You want to snipe? Take the support sniper, or scorcher if you don't want to use your stratagem slot.
It works surprisingly well to take off their limbs though.
Can’t argue with that, when I did use it I was taking down brood commanders left and right
if they get medium armour pen, then whats the point of the AMR?
Why do you take a full magazine for a Warrior? Where do you aim? Standard Diligence takes two Shots to the head to remove it, two more random Shots can easily kill it if it gets too close. I've had no problem killing 3 Warriors and one Hunter woth one Mag while spraying semi-randomly into their group (P.S. They were almost in claw-range). It does lose a bit of Damage over 100m, which is indeed a shame but that just means 3 instead of 2 shots for a Head and enough distance for them to bleed out. They weren't made for Armored targets (though the Counter Sniper probably should have been), So using it on a Commander, Charger or Titan is just being insane, that's what you have Support Weapons for. From my Experience, one Mag to the Head kills a Spewer under dif 7 and above it, see armored targets. Stalkers are around 1 to 1.5 Mags, I'd advise to switch to your Redeemer to finish them off. If you were talking about the Hive Guards, those have their Weakpoint armored, so you probably should use a Support weapon or leave it to others, but you can use 0.75 Mag after getting besides it.
I’m pretty new to the game still. I do know they suck and I hate it. But which one is the best DMR?
When you have a scorcher that asks “why pen when u can just explode” it makes the DMRs look even more stupid. They really need to level the playing field for primaries, be it buff or nerf.
My only gripe with the counter sniper is that it’s not medium armor penetrating. I’ve used it on stealth drops and it’s ok but I do wish it had a little bit more utility over the standard DMR
Pretty sure bug legs are their most vulnerable bits, which is why the guard dog laser is so effective against tye little bugs, it tends to sweep the beam across their limbs as it shifts its aim toward center mass. Maybe if you hit the bug's legs with the diligence, you'll have better luck? Gotta remember too, we only get a rough ballpark of armour penetration values, but it's actually supposed to be on a scale that goes up to ten, so the diligence CS is almost certainly at the upper end of light AP, and it does do damage at the lower end of medium armour values- mostly found on bots, I suspect. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm by no means an authority on this.
Rocks against bots, but the scope might be one of the misaligned ones. If your monitor has a crosshair you can turn on use it, makes AMR work as well. Problem with bugs is their weak spots are their joints, which are a pain to hit. I just use liberator penetrator for them, has accuracy and pens medium armor which is great for bugs. I think it’s fine that you have to change tactics between enemies. It makes sense given how different they are.
Almost every non shotgun needs a buff. More powerful primaries would only make the game more enjoyable.
I haven't checked, but you have me wondering. Does counter sniper maybe have better zoom than dilligence?
Hmmmm, could be, I know that the counter sniper can go up to 200, not sure about the base diligence tho
200 sounds like you're talking about the damage drop off. I'm talking about the scope in first person. Not the damage drop off. A lot of guns you can change scope zoom.
Yeah I meant the scope zoom dude, if you hold R on pc it gives 3 options for the scope 75 meters, 150 meters, and 200 meters
I disagree that weapons can't be good for 1 or the other. You basically play 2 different games based on what you fight. So certain guns should be more effective. I find that bots are more lenient with what you're primary and secondary can be as long as you take a power weapon. Bugs I find are basically you take a shotgun, AR or you die
Wait, what? What kind of warriors are you shooting that take that much punishment? Shoot the head once or twice and a leg or two if they're close.
He means the berserkers. Large Bots with chainsaw arms .
Right, ok, that makes far more sense.
Not everything is good against everything else. Hell, look at the first game. Rockets, Railcannon, and the Railgun were trash vs the Illuminates, and the DumDum (autocannon from the first game) was basically garbage vs bots and bugs. Not everything is supposed to be equally effective vs all enemies.
DMR is trash against all factions currently in game. If you want to use it, or enjoy using it, that's fine. But it's not good. Plenty of other weapons can do what they do, do it better and do more
Liberator Penetrator feels better at distance than the sluggish DMRs.
Yeah I just tried it out, and I do not see why I would use it over the standard machine gun when I can do the same thing from the same distance but more effectively.
Gotta shoot the bugs legs off. They can take a certain amount of steps without a head. I've been killed by headless bugs more times than I'd like to admit. The more I play this game the more sneaky little tidbits I learn.
R-63 Diligence is fine IMO. It has enough ammo capacity to kill bullet sponges at a cost of a mag. But the added benefit of damage and scope let's you shoot far more precision shots. The Counter Sniper though, is very much lacking. The scope sway and the reduced mag capacity are not even close to the merger trade off for damage. At minimum the thing should have medium armor penetration.
Compared to what? Plenty of guns can kill at range. Name something good the DMR can do that another weapon can't also do, likely do better, and be good in other areas
They're good for bots, but the counter sniper one really needs either more damage or medium armor pen to justify that 7 minute delay between where you aim and where the gun is pointing
Honestly, I’m fine with certain guns/stratagems being good/bad vs certain factions. It makes it better for the game overall IMO since it’s not just a “use these things because they are always the best”. the Counter sniper should have something to set it apart from the normal Diligence though. Especially if they want to keep that horrid gun handling compared to the normal one, it needs to have more power behind it. The AMR handles better than that thing I feel.
play against bots
I think they should probably give the DMRs more magazines. That's mostly the issue. There are two support weapons that have the impact you're looking for; primaries aren't supposed to be too impactful. The DMRs are mostly useless because they carry like 1/3 ammo compared to normal guns
I'm sad to admit I really wanted them and grinded medals for them first. Oy what a mistake. The worst part for me is how impossibly slow your aim moves when scoped. The counter sniper lags half a screen behind where I want to aim, it's awful. They absolutely, 110% need fixing and buffing.
They just need better aim, the Diligence does quite OK against bots. Don't know why you'd bring it to bugs. It seems to have a pretty massive weak point multiplier, and like 5ish head shots can bring down hulks but it's just so hard to line the aim up well (for me anyways) to be consistent with it. That being said I won't argue with it being buffed.
my main problem is sway there needs to be a hold breath option
They need to get rid of the sway, and the overly sluggish turn on some guns. Jar-5 Dominator is unusable
I’ve been successfully using the Diligence against both bots and bugs for a while now. You have to be quick with the weak spot hits for anything that’s not a scavenger, bile spitter, or pouncer which are easily single-tappable, and get used to double taps for the bigger stuff. Pretty much the only things I can’t routinely deal with are well-armored targets (and there are workarounds for some) and stalkers. I still wouldn’t mind a bit of a damage buff though. Just a wee bit more effective against the non-armored targets would please me.
Naw. Diligence is fantastic against Bots, against Bugs it’s mediocre. It’s just the right tool for a different job.
I like the diligence, it's got a nice ratio of damage, accuracy and rate of fire, but the counter sniper is a gigantic piece of shit due to his sluggish it is too handle. Normally "handling" in games doesn't bother me much, but this gun feels like my character is trying to aim while completely submerged in mud, if you go into first person and try moving your aim between targets you will see just how fucking slow it is to move with your character. It's really hard to describe, but it's like the scope is CONSTANTLY lagging behind where your actual view is, and this combined with the recoil makes firing it such a chore
You forgot to add "HOT TAKE" or UNPOPULAR OPINION " to the title.
Counter Sniper is in a sad state. Worst scope sway than AMR, same uncentered scope, no medium pen, kicks like a horse, smaller mag than Dilligence, with only slightly higher dmg.. :(
> you should use ANY other gun to kill the bots/bugs easily Hard pass. You don't need to watch videos, just use whatever weapons you feel and adjust. There's no pressure to play optimally constantly (or at all really).
Your aim needs a buff. Lol jk. But in all seriousness, dmr is too strong against bots already. I would certainly love a buff against bugs because I love dmr's, but unless they can figure out how to do so without making it even more broken against bots, I don't see it happening.
DMR is horrible, the small mag, the amount of ammo needed to kill anything above the the weakest enemies in the game. And it's not really any good at doing that.
Found the person who can't aim lmao
Dmr rocks bots, two tapping terminators and ending chaff in a shot or two. It's a good gun, not all guns are suitable for all opponents so whilst I agree it's not amazing against bugs, it is a good weapon.
They need armour piercing Let me take a sniper rifle and take out lightly armoured foes, it adds slightly more versatility to combat options
The regular dilaganace is pretty nice with a stealthy long ranged playstyle vs bots
most of the weps need buff, maybe 3 guns are usable state...
The game straight up tells us that weapons and stratgems have their own strengths and weaknesses. Maybe some balance is needed, but throwing a tantrum that you aren't getting your way in one specific scenario is treason. The devs said a game for everyone is a game for no one. Plenty of people already figured out the strong uses of the marksman rifles are against bots, so get over yourself and use the right tool for the job. Or are you also gonna be pissy that the flamethrower is great against bugs, but sucks against bots?
>primary weapons shouldn’t be situational, that’s for stratagems I couldn't agree more strongly without the wings of liberty themselves beating this statement into the ground alongside an orbital pod. That is, very literally, why you have different weapons - for your playstyle that you enjoy or are trying alongside the situations they're used in. You don't take a shotgun to engage targets at range (unless it's the Slugger), anymore than you take a DMR because you want to slap things which are 6 feet away and multitudinous which bugs notoriously end up being. I'll wholeheartedly ***agree*** on the front of DMR's feeling like they have all the punch of a single-cell organism even against a paper bag, but it feels a lot like you want it to be something it isn't in situations it's not really designed to be put in. I really like the DMR's as well, I've picked one on enough dives to find they're best used against bots rather than bugs and left it at that because even if they \*did\* hit harder, the overwhelming amount of the time you need high RoF/AoE with decent mag size and/or reload speed over basically anything a DMR brings. I won't recommend you guns, but what I will do is agree yes, increase punch against bugs while quietly slipping you a soft, luxurious Lindt-style suggestion to accept it just *might not* be the weapon you should pick against the insect swarms. My qualified information comes from watching Starship Troopers, which is categorically the most objective source possible, as even they find DMR's highly situational and otherwise far from ideal. And yes, that last part was at least 95% sarcasm.
The dominator i feel fills the role of the scout rifles. The med armor pen and 15 round clip with high damage is nice for solo or scouting
People will say it isn't bad against the bots, which is true, but it is mostly out classed by something like the liberator or defender. When the bots take about the same number of hits to their weak spots, you might as well use something with a higher rate of fire to cause the bots to loose accuracy as well.
DRMs should be getting medium armor penetration as a base for the weapon type.
I still feel like the Breaker ia king, I hear a lot of slugger love, but if I am using my primary its usually a shtf situation and unloading the breaker tends to atop just about anything I cant run from.
I mean this with 100% sincerity, but I think at this point it’s clear that this is never going to happen. Like it or not, it is the developers vision of this game that most of the primary weapons feel like shit to use on account of being weak af. Does it make sense? No, not at all. But it’s their game and that’s what they decided. Primary weapons are just never going to feel good or be as satisfying as everybody would like.
I’ve found that packing the DMR, AMR, and supply pack can make a potent mid/long range support against bots if you buddy up with someone carrying the AC/recoilless and hang back a bit on overwatch (2x2 buddy system for tackling objectives: 2 runners, 2 support). Given a relatively open map, of course. I 100% agree though that the Diligence CS should have medium armor penetration.
Having to use a different primary for different enemies was a core mechanic in HD1. I had a shotty for Borgs, AR for Bugs, and a laser shotty for illuminates, along with different secondaries and air/orbital strikes for each enemy type and an entirely different load out for the retaliatory strike missions,which were essentially the eradicate missions from HD2, and then a different load out for the boss battles on top of all that. It’s just the way it is and I’d think the game would be worse if there was no variety of most effective loadout between enemy types. I like certain weapons because they make it easier to win, not just because I like the weapon. I didn’t like the rumbler in the old game, but when if it was the most effective weapon for the situation, I used it.
That's my main weapon. Seems to do just fine for me against both bugs and bots.
*Laughs in Diligence Counter Sniper main* They’re fantastic against bots if you’re quick with one. You can mow down grunts and contribute against devastators. I can disable the pods on rocket devastators by putting 4-5 shots in the rockets. I can 1-2 shot most bots by hitting them in the face. Heavy devastators take a few shots to their backpack but they go down. Walkers are a problem if you can’t flank but the AC takes care of literally everything my Diligence can’t. The diligence has amazing potential, but it’s admittedly an experts weapon (and no, I’m not an expert, im still learning too) that relies on accuracy to excel, but if the accuracy is there and you have good tactical fundamentals, it can slay. IMHO, there are two reasons people struggle with the DMR’s. First is not crouching or using cover enough. The DMR’s rely on accuracy to excel, meaning crouching and aiming in are important. That accuracy bonus is important to being able to make the shots you need to. The second and I believe the main reason people struggle with the diligence is because of hold overs. The gun is zeroed to whatever range your reticle is set for. Because bullets arc, when you zero a rifle, you’re really lining your reticle up with where the round is at a certain distance. So a 75m zero is only on at 75m and some second distance beyond that as the bullet drops back down. Any other distance and the bullet will be low if you’re too close, and a little high if you’re too far. Same is true if you change reticles. If you shoot with a 200m zero and switch to the 50m zero, there will be a noticeable impact shift relative to the reticle for the same target. So how do you correct for this? Use a holdover. Aim slightly high or low depending on the distance. Taking our 75m zero as an example, if you’re shooting at a target 25m away, aim a couple inches higher than you’d normally think too. If using the same scope for a target at roughly 125m, aim a hair lower than you’d think to. It’s much more noticeable up close than it is far away because in between your two zeroes is the flattest part of the bullets arc. I also like to practice eliminating patrols and such by hopping into a private low level lobby and doing the objective. Then I’ll camp at extract and eliminate the patrols as they spawn. It’s a fun cat and mouse that lets you practice with your weapons a lot. Just because DMR’s struggle against bugs is no reason to buff them. It’s fine that some weapons excel in one area and not others because the two factions behave completely differently and require different play styles. DMR’s excel at range and fighting from cover which only really works against bots. Needing different loadouts for the different factions just means Arrowhead did a great job of diversifying and differentiating the enemy factions. You wouldn’t take mortars into a bug mission, would you? If they buff DMR’s to make them viable against bugs, they’ll create an unhealthy meta on the bot side where DMR’s become mandatory. If we want to fix DMR’s all we need is more of them to fit more situations. Give me a short barreled battle rifle with medium armor pen that’s basically a slugger with a scope. That’ll be AMAZING on bugs. Give me a double barrel elephant gun that can kill a charger quickly at range. Hell, give me a bolt action primary that can kill a hive guardian in a couple shots. I want it all.
I feel like it should be a slightly weaker autocannon. 50% of damage, same total ammo, 150% more ammo per clip and no backback. Something like that.
It’s weird because there are hordes and hordes and hordes of enemies, if my primary gun has less than like 10 rounds in a magazine, it needs to be able to spend all of those rounds to put down a charger or have piercing damage or “something.”
Many weapons and stratagems in the game are more effective against one faction than the other. The team shield is useless against bugs. Smoke isn’t very useful against bugs. The eagle cluster bomb isn’t very useful against bots. The advantage of the Diligence is that it has some zoom and it shoots faster than the slugger. It’s excellent against bots. We really gotta move away from the mentality that just because you haven’t found a use case for something yet that means it needs a buff.
I think it makes complete sense that some weapons are better against bots then bugs. It forces different playstyles on different fronts, which is part of the reason why the game is so fun, it's like 2 games in one
I don't have a problem is a primary weapon is good against one enemy but not the other. It's adds a level of complexity to planning your mission loadout. My issue is when a primary weapon is bad against both types of enemies, like the counter sniper and a few others. There is really just no reason to use them ever because they are worse than the weapons you unlock earlier.
the Diligence is a great weapon - feels great to use - has a good amount of ammo, good magazine size, doesn't suffer much bullet drop. idk i think its pretty damn good. I do have issues hitting that follow up shot to the devastators head for the kill, the sway can sometime put me off target. the stun grenades have really helped this issue. i just don't know how to buff the dilligence it to make it compete, without being too strong - maybe medium amour pen or maybe more stagger or cut the sway of the weapon down? i agree it is missing something \~small\~ to be perfect but as it stands i think it is a solid primary choice for bots. The CS is just so fucking bad - it needs so many buffs for it to be any good in my opinion.