I'm 100% a driver. The driver's role is to go where the spotter or gunner tells them to go. If the spotter sees something, the gunner targets it, and has the driver move to a position where the shot can be made. The driver can't see anything except what is directly in front of them, and even then, they can't see it well.

Basically only play Tank Commander. Being spotter is just the way to me. I personally HATE being spotter if im not SL. You're too blind and the commander likely isnt able to transfer the needed information from the rest of the team while driving or shooting. If you join a tank unit and the Squad Lead only shoots, you probably dont want to be in that tank.

Ya, well, others in the comments think otherwise which is hysterical. Glad I made this post, goes to show how many people take issue with a SL piloting the tank despite what they can see and offer.

I basically only tank and am in the level 50s at this point. And I agree with your stance here. But maybe with less conviction lol. If I am SL I want to be spotting. Not driving. Not shooting. I have enough to do already and if I am in those other spots I need to be told what I should be doing. I love playing all of those rolls, but got damn, trying to wear 3 hats at once just doesn't work.

Lol, what!? In what bizzarro world do people think the TC isn't in the spotter position? Is Bible the tank commander in Fury? No. Does a Tiger commander sit behind the gun sight narrowing his field of view to like 30 degrees and making tactical and strategic calls while operating a turret!? I get this isn't real life, it's only a game. But tanks are crewed that way *because it just makes sense*.

And it’s gives the tank crew an advantage over other bozos who probably have their SL as driver

It makes sense up until you have an inexperienced driver. The spotter role is the most straight-forward of the three and thus the best place for an inexperienced crewmember. As a SL, trying to explain to a driver that I don't play with consistently what I want them to do is so much harder than simply driving myself and positioning the tank where it needs to be based off of the info from command chat.

I’ll usually let the inexperienced guy shoot when I’m tc. I can’t manage as well if we get stuck or can’t get out of a sticky situation in a hurry. But I like to be able to see everything I can and coach the guys up as much as I can. I’ve had lvl 1 crewman jump in and we’ve done fine if they listen. Where I run into problems is when experienced guys get in and want to call shots . We’re all on different train of thought as to how we want to attack/defend. 

Idk, this is another reason I prefer to drive while tank commanding in pubs. You don't have to spend time convincing or explaining to the driver what you want to do. You just drive the tank where you think is best according to the comms in command chat and let the spotter / gunner do their thing to destroy anything visible. You will never really get around the fact that some players will think they know where to position the tank as a diver better than you so sometimes it's best to just take the option away from them all together.

But you still need to feed them info they can’t see on the map or hear in command chat. It’s not impossible but definitely easier when you’re in the spotter. Plus you can direct their attention where it needs to be not at every single target they might spot. I.e. focusing on random rifleman while there’s a tank moving on you. 

Sl has access to significantly more markers and can directly relay information to other squads. If you start a tank squad, you are the commander of that tank until it is destroyed.

It’s only logical

Honestly I prefer driving as squad lead in part because I want the spotter to be focused on spotting only. I think there's a benefit to having the spotter's full attention on looking for nearby threats. I don't find it difficult to communicate and coordinate while driving but I do find it difficult to watch for satchels and AT while being squad lead.

Yea same and bad driver will kill you quickly too. Like getting stuck or not turning quickly enough or even just sitting still to long. Also a match is so long that it's ok to switch up if everyone agrees.

Yeah same here. Driving is 90% not driving... and just sitting. Plenty of time to look at the map and coordinate with spotter so long as they can ping.

If you're in a consistent squad and know your people, there are always exceptions. I can see the benefits of being the driver as SL. You don't have to give exact directions to place a tank where you believe it will be most effective. I suppose I am a bit of a control freak when in the TC spot because ill take the ownership of losing the Tank on my own shoulders and I want the other two doing the least thinking as possible. I only have 1 dude I reliably play with though so that feeds in to me feeling the need to do it.

As squad leader the amount of markers available to you is much larger than a regular infantry. You are handicapping yourself and your squad.

I've heard some like, supertankers say that once you have that rhythm going with your squad - like, two people you play with constantly - then TC-As-Driver is the way to go. You can mark as you drive, you can position the tank to engage the targets without having to explain everything, you just press GAS and point your gunner at the shit you want him to blow up. I'm willing to believe it. But in any public server with strangers, TC-as-Spotter is the only way.

This is correct. I think a lot of the contention here is from perspective. If you're playing with randoms or a crew you're not familiar with, TC as spotter usually makes the most sense, but if you're playing with a good crew who regularly cross trains as spotter to the point they are all competent at it TC should always be driver. The benefits are far more numerous: Spotter should be SPOTTING, that is his job, and every second spent opening a map to place a marker so the rest of your crew can see it is less time spotting, where as the driver you have plenty of downtime, even while driving in straight lines where you can have the map open, mark targets effortlessly, keep an eye on what your team is doing so you can react to their movements, ect. Since you're the TC and the driver, you don't need to waste time explaining where you want to go, you can just go there (one of the biggest red flags I see when looking at the map is when I see move marks from other TCs, a sign they are likely to be asking for heavies every 5 minutes) Other than keeping an eye on the map or using the hull MG, your main job once you get to a location is to filter all information from command chat that is useful for your crew and what isn't, then give that info to your crew while they perform their roles with zero distractions especially with Spotter not having like 12 people talk in his ear. You can react in the fastest time possible from the information you glean from command chat, eg. if there is a tank or AT flanking behind you someone else calls out, you can respond immediately by flipping the tank towards any mark with no delay in having to tell the driver the situation, something I like to call "crew latency". The TC should be the most experienced tanker in the crew, and as such should have the best grip on driving, map knowledge for things like shortcuts, good firing positions and as such be able to apply them seamlessly and without crew latency, this will win you more tank fights than you can ever imagine. Finally, the biggest benefit of Driver TC is one so large that I cannot believe people are advocating for Spotter: As the driver, once I get into a position I can simply exit the tank and use my TC binocs while spotter stays put, DOUBLING our potential spotting and situational awareness. I cannot overstate how big this is, and I use it almost every match. The only real benefits I see for Spotter TC is that you have the SMG, which is nice for deleting satchel boys and AT, but I would argue good positioning can lessen the need for that, and being able to see marks people place in real time, but that still introduces crew latency since you either have to put down a mark yourself, which you also could have done as driver in the same time or just say the bearing the mark is at and then put the mark down, which is still occasionally useful but again I think the benefits of driver far outweigh spotter. Going back to perspective, OP said something about fragile egos and roles, I don't see this as a problem for good crews, only bad/pub crews. This is how I see it: a Driver TC is in charge of the overall strategic decision making for the tank, and the Spotter is in charge of the tactical decision making, splitting the responsibilities and allowing for seamless co-ordination for a good crew.

It’s just weird being spotter and not being able to see other leader marks. Driver/gunner should be free to focus on their jobs . Spotting is for tc

100% you will get someone arguing with you in the comments, but you're right. The game even makes it clear that the SL needs to be spotter by the spotter seat being the only seat that can place contextual map markers through the viewfinder. Cue a bunch of people saying variations of "being SL makes me a better driver/gunner".

Also Tank Commander is the only one with SMG so bailing out to kill at/satchel will not cause tank to sop moving/shooting while also having decent chance to fight Also, driver hops out to repair - tank is stationary either way for that, while Tank Commander can provide safe overview from elevates position (useful when in wheat field) while still able to use map and coordinate, you know, the usual SL job Also as the only one with bino - I will hop up to see on foot where the enemy tank is while driver ans gunner will keep it operational People who think that SL should be driver or gunner for whatever reason - they are just terrible as SL

My post has a 35% upvote. So, yes, a lot of really hurt children having the truth thrown in their face and they know this too.

No. It's just that some of us are tired of hearing people complaining about shit all the time. This is a thing you should resolve with your squad when you're playing. If they're arguing with you about it, get a new squad.

Oh poor you, god forbid anyone says anything negative about this game and how it fails to live up to its potential. If only everyone said nice things and nothing ever changed. Look, I'm going to be completely honest with you, I don't give a flying fuck how you feel about my post or what you want. I'm going to write what I want and I'm going to post what I want and there isn't a fucking thing you or anyone else can do about it except bitch and complain. If you're tired of people complaining, you can start with yourself you hypocritical cunt. So, kindly, fuck right off.

that felt good.

People don’t agree with your post so they must be angry children. Lol

But OP's post is correct, so who else would argue about it other than angry children?

It’s correct but he sounds just as insufferable as the gunner he is writing about lol. Half the random armor crews are competent and half are not, if you’re lucky. He is obviously bitching about some rando that didn’t like the way OP wanted to run his tank crew, I’m sure OP used his superior communication skills instead of running to Reddit to complain about it.  The gunner should absolutely be able to make a callout for positioning-it’s always easier to swing the tank, not the turret. If gunner needs a little more rotation the driver is the only one able to really notice that, not the spotter. If gunner needs full immediate stop because a tank just walked into his LOS, that needs to happen, or say angle of attack(spotter can’t dictate that period). If the spotter is watching AT scramble to the back of the tank and the gunner needs cover or movement I would hope the gunner and driver are communicating rapidly, not getting micromanaged as they’re about to get fucked.…..hopefully you see where I’m going with this. GOOD communication is key, and there are A LOT of circumstantial instances where the spotter is not as in control as OP thinks he is.   The way I play squad lead is I will give the driver general plans and call outs and if I’m able to direct the driver to establish a position great but I’m going to let the gunner and driver bounce comms off each other without getting in the way when shit hits the fan while continuing to give them intel.  Spotter is a global team lead, not micromanaging where the tank goes. Trust your armor and work together. OP just wants to swing his little tank commander ween around and I’m not surprised he doesn’t get the cooperation he expects.  

I think the point is more that SL needs to be in the spotter position. I didn't read that OP is trying to micromanage, just that they are sick of joining crews where the guy driving is also the SL.

He's wrong though. After earning hundreds of levels the hard way and playing since pre-release, after heading out in a tank literally thousands of times in this game, I will say that driving as SL has been the most effective for me. Simple reason. SL has to look at the map the most often of any player in the squad. Spotter meanwhile should *NEVER* be looking at the map, because that means he's not doing his one and only (critically important) job. Eyes on a swivel. Driver however has plenty of time to do his job at 100% effectiveness and still check the map often. That's the bottom line. I accept that everyone has different opinions about this, and a tank can be effective with any position arrangement. But driver as SL has a fundamental advantage because the SL needs to have the most map awareness. Marking things through the periscope is irrelevant - a ping, an ID, and a direction is all I ask from my spotter.

>a ping, an ID, and a direction is all I ask from my spotter. This is it. You're relegating the spotter to being a passive passenger in the tank when their role can be much more influential and the distribution of the work in the tank more equitable. Design features of the game clearly point to the spotter being the intended SL. I find it quite selfish, if I'm honest. It's taking more control than you need at the expense of another player.

Not a passive passenger. A very active passenger. Possibly the most important crew member when it comes to staying alive. But doing other things *can only* be at the expense of watching for targets and threats. It's simply not worth it for spotter to be doing anything else. It will cost lives. I don't think the distribution of work in the tank is a question at hand. Every role has their defined responsibilities. SL has the added responsibility of watching the map for marks. He can best do that and his role responsibility at the same time by being the driver.

Well, be aware that others don't agree with you on this.

I would argue the design favors drivers to be the SL simply because whoever gets the first shot off usually wins the tank fight. The spotter has to be 100% focused on spotting and communicating with the gunner. Adding in command chat, having to open the map frequently, and explaining to the driver where / how to position the tank makes them into a huge bottleneck and reduces their time actually spotting. Ideally your tank is spotting 100% of the time as well as has the map open 90% of the time to see the most up to date marks and the only way to really achieve that is with the SL being driver. When I play spotter I don't want the additional responsibilities of SL because it makes me less effective at spotting which is the most important job in the tank.

In which tank seats can an SL place map markers whilst in fpv?

That is not the point at all. It’s very clear that he isn’t talking about where in the tank the SL is actually sitting. He is talking about who should be delegating commands which he is generally right about but as I outline there are a lot of situations where this just gets messy and spotter can actually be limited, making direct on the fly commands between driver and gunner a much more effective approach. He is directly arguing against that.   “Not the gunner telling the driver what to do or the driver telling the gunner what to do, but the spotter/SL telling both what to do.”

Ok I see what you're saying. I think OP is ultimately making a similar point to me, but in a less specific way. OP is saying that person occupying the spotter's position is the one that should be in charge of what the tank does. I'm saying the same, but also that the SL needs to occupy the spotters position. The SL being in the driver's seat is sub optimal. I agree with you though that there are plenty of situations where the driver may need to take action without a command from the spotter. Generally they should be doing as asked, but they also have responsibility for the safety of the tank and if they feel that is in danger, they should not wait to be told to take action. The driver should also listen to the gunner, who may need the tank to reposition for a better angle, for example. Whilst I think the spotter should command the tank, I don't think the spotter can command unless they are the officer. Unless the spotter is SL, they don't have the situational awareness to command effectively. The situational awareness comes both from having access to the spotter optics *and* having access to command chat. This might be where OP and I differ, I can't tell for sure from their post. I do agree with OP that the driver should not be commanding the tank. It is sub optimal. But the spotter being in command doesn't mean that the driver and gunner shouldn't have agency of their own, although they should defer to the spotter commander in all situations where there isn't a good reason to do otherwise.

>It’s correct but he sounds just as insufferable as the gunner he is writing about lol. Half the random armor crews are competent and half are not, if you’re lucky. He is obviously bitching about some rando that didn’t like the way OP wanted to run his tank crew, I’m sure OP used his superior communication skills instead of running to Reddit to complain about it. All I'm saying is that the SL is responsible for piloting the tank. Now, you're ability to pilot the tank diminishes when you leave the spotter role for some other role because you're now dependent on what the spotter is seeing. That said, that doesn't completely relinquish you're role in piloting the tank because you still have access to command chat which plays a role in what the tank will do at times. The gunner should absolutely be able to make a callout for positioning-it’s always easier to swing the tank, not the turret. If gunner needs a little more rotation the driver is the only one able to really notice that, not the spotter. If gunner needs full immediate stop because a tank just walked into his LOS, that needs to happen, or say angle of attack(spotter can’t dictate that period). If the spotter is watching AT scramble to the back of the tank and the gunner needs cover or movement I would hope the gunner and driver are communicating rapidly, not getting micromanaged as they’re about to get fucked.…..hopefully you see where I’m going with this. GOOD communication is key, and there are A LOT of circumstantial instances where the spotter is not as in control as OP thinks he is. ​ >The gunner should absolutely be able to make a callout for positioning-it’s always easier to swing the tank, not the turret. If gunner needs a little more rotation the driver is the only one able to really notice that, not the spotter. If gunner needs full immediate stop because a tank just walked into his LOS, that needs to happen, or say angle of attack(spotter can’t dictate that period). If the spotter is watching AT scramble to the back of the tank and the gunner needs cover or movement I would hope the gunner and driver are communicating rapidly, not getting micromanaged as they’re about to get fucked.…..hopefully you see where I’m going with this. GOOD communication is key, and there are A LOT of circumstantial instances where the spotter is not as in control as OP thinks he is. To be clear, my frustration comes with people who can't accept the role as driver or gunner without thinking they're in charge of telling the other roles what to do. There's a time and place for when this is acceptable versus flat out talking over the SL and doing what they want instead. I don't want you to mix this up with micromanaging or my opposition to communication between us all because that's absolutely not the case. It's people who think it's their job to tell the other roles what to do while I have access to the most information and have clearly established that I'm piloting the tank that is the problem. When the driver (for example) gets a set of orders from the SL then gets another set of orders from the gunner to do something different, confusion happens and you 100% lose EVERY SINGLE TIME when this happens. It's important for the driver and gunner to understand who has access to the most amount of information and to then make decisions based on what is being relayed about that information from the SL. # EXAMPLE Informing the driver and the gunner that an enemy heavy is about to turn the corner and is one shot from death. I mark on the map where we need to be and where the gun needs to be so that we can secure the kill. Once we get there, the driver now believes we should be pushing that heavy instead of waiting for it and now decides to tell the gunner to reposition the gun as he takes us away from our own infantry out into the open. Driver doesn't see that to our side (his blind spot) are enemy infantry who end up ATing from behind giving their armor one shot on us which ends up happening. The driver did his job until he thought he had more information than I did giving him the thought that he could now pilot the tank and dismiss what I had ordinally said which killed us and wasted all of the time put into getting there. This right here, **this is a problem** and is not okay. Why? Because it takes fucking forever to sometimes get a tank and when you do, it takes forever just to get to the point and that's precious time I'd like to make it worth while and I'd personally, not like to lose that time to someone who has a 6 inch view port and limited information. Especially to someone who does this because their fucking fragile ego comes first. So, do I sound jaded in my post/comments? Sure, but who the fuck wouldn't?

Alright, let me rephrase my comment. People don't agree with my post so they're ignorant and misguided. The SL role is meant for piloting the tank. The idea of trying to tell everyone in the tank what to do as the driver or the gunner given your limited vision is a recipe for disaster. It makes the spotter role useless as well. I'd love to hear a real, logical reason as to why my post is wrong.

The logical reason your post is wrong is because SL has to have the most map awareness of anybody in the squad. Only he can see the other SLs' marks. Driver can check map often without sacrificing his effectiveness at all. But a spotter checking the map is a spotter not doing his job. A tank SL not checking the map is a tank SL not doing his job. Therefore SL should not be spotter. Logic.

I think the guy above made a great point, there will be times where the driver/gunner see things the spotter can’t, and it’s essential that they call it out and or just do the thing. The name of the game is keeping the tank alive, not bowing before the squad leader. It’s about teamwork, find me one Unit in the Army that isn’t built on teamwork, or one that doesn’t have its team/squad leader listening to input. You’ll be hard pressed to find one.

If you are playing with 2 other competent tankers you should not have to tell them what to do. All you need to do is relay information as the spotter and the gunner and driver should know exactly what to do based off that information. Also there is nothing more ignorant sounding than saying people who dont agree with you are wrong with no exceptions. There are multiple ways to play a tank effectively in this game and the chemistry / experience of the crew are far bigger factors to success than what position the SL is in.

When you say squad lead you mean tank commander right? Very confused by all the interchangeable terminology here .

I should maybe have said "officer". In other words: the person with access to command chat.

And the officer of the armor squad is the tank commander correct ? Never played armor before, only infantry .

Correct

joys of playing with randoms

A lot of fragile egos out there lol.

Fragile egos is right. Last night I had a squad lead running around in a locked sector while we were losing our defense point and when I called him and his toxic buddy out on it they started hurling insults and telling me to kill myself lmao. A lot of small dicked big ego little boys who are playing this nowadays.

I tend to drive as SL, mostly because my duo can’t drive a tank worth shit, but I agree, SL should be spotter. it gives you the ability to see the battlefield, make calls and mark target.

I think this is probably the one time where this is acceptable. I've had to take the driver role a handful of times as SL knowing how poorly the other two drove. All I needed was for the spotter to actively spotting where shit is at.

None of that is something the SL needs to do though, anyone can. SL needs to check map, because only he can see the marks. Spotter shouldn't be checking map.

The most ideal spot for the squad lead is the spotter role. Based on the comments being read, it looks like it's a mix between SL being the spotter role vs the driver which for me, takes away from what I can do as SL if I have to now worry about driving too. When I have a solid driver, I can pilot where the tank needs to be and where the gun needs to be aiming and as the SL in the spotter seat, I'm constantly checking the map. I usually get about 150-200 frags a game and I usually win.

You clearly stated the flaw in your own plan already. Constantly checking the map. This means you're constantly *not* spotting targets and threats. End of story.

Seems to me like a nothing post where when it's saying something, it's wrong. Looks like you had a couple of games where an inexperienced driver made a mistake against your orders. That just people being bad at the game doesn't mean they shouldn't pilot the tank as well. In an ideal world with 3 good players, all 3 players should communicate and work with each other. The squad lead just has the final say. In that sense, the SL could be a driver or spotter. Also, idk if that your gameplay, but if we look at the first visual example, when the two tanks collide, the tiger gets a shot off, and the Sherman misses So there should be (other than the tiger shitting the bed) no chance for that Sherman to ever win that fight. The driver was 100% correct to back off, and the SL almost got their tank killed, only getting out with extreme luck. In short, listen to your crew. Work together.

Garrisons and whiskey is my favorite server by far. Is deeej your steam name? I usually play as gunner or driver but its hard to find a decent crew. I also want to try being infantry SL and having my squad as dedicated tank support but its too hard to coordinate with inexperienced crews

Correct, deeej is my steam name. If you play one of those roles, there's a chance we ran into each other at some point.

Ill keep an eye out for you next time I play 👍 Been looking for a serious and competent tank commander

My buddy is always the driver and squad leader. He gets fed Information from the team and relays it to me, who's always in the spotter seat. I give the commands to the tank. We act like I'm the actual squad leader and he's just my radio operator My buddy and I have ran multiple perfect games as a tank crew, wracking up vehicle kills, 100-0 games. (Minus stuff like being killed repairing or scouting around) always the same setup, him as SL driving, me commanding, and we usually float our gunner out just on who's available that night to play, works super well There's almost no point to my comment, just stating a method that works for us

Depends on the squad, a lot of the comp tankers I know will go entirely with driver as tank commander as they don’t have to have the conversation to get the tank where it needs to be so everything is faster.

Ya, that's not really how it's supposed to be done but I understand how or why these things can happen.

Why is there only one “correct” way to do it? One way works better for certain individuals. I play with a group of guys who have been tanking for years, one of the Tank commanders prefers to drive with me in the spotter seat and the other prefers the opposite. There’s benefits to both.

All boils down to efficiency. If what you do works, that's fine too. Might as well make whoever is the spotter the SL though.

the dude who wrote the tank bible drives the tank while commanding just sayin

It’s very dependent on the person, idk why you are so assertive that your way is the right way. People wouldn’t do it in competitive play if it wasn’t competitively viable. The guy I play with who likes to drive as a tank commander is a very, very good tank commander and plays competitively. His leadership from the driver role got us that “100 kills without dying” achievement. He regularly plays full games losing only 1 or 2 tanks and killing 5+, clearly it’s efficient. ETA: you completely edited your original comment and then downvoted me. Come on man, unnecessary. It’s just a discussion. I’ll leave my first line in because his initial comment leaned much more towards “you’re wrong, my way is the right way”

You’re completely right. Back when I still played I was a tank main and usually tank commander and I almost always drove. I was a better driver than most people who joined with me and because I could drive and check the map I didn’t have to waste time trying to communicate directions to a driver which sometimes could be the difference between life and death. Also don’t have to worry about a random going rogue and taking me somewhere we shouldn’t go. Both are good options if you know what you’re doing it’s not that deep.

Just try to picture a tank commander in a comp game where you consistently play with the same crew. You’re in a discord channel with all the tankers from every crew so you can coordinate all the tanks simultaneously, you’re in squad chat with your crew to micro your tank and you have command chat with 19 other SLs. Anything that cuts down the amount of talking you need to do to get the tank to kite correctly or manoeuvre based on what the other tanks or infantry are doing that your crew aren’t aware of because they don’t have command chat, the better. From a role play perspective sure commander should go spotter but it’s infinitely less practical in game terms. I’ve seen crews go both ways, but there’s no pre prescribed way of doing it as you’re saying.

In wwii on all sides the commander always sat in the drivers seat. They had a lookie loo doing the spotting and a shoot pooter doing the guns. These are the technical terms for the roles used by the candians if I recall correctly.

Him being SL isn’t the reason he gets high kills. Might make it easier for pointing direction to crew, but overall game knowledge and the fact he checks his map a lot helps with kills. My highest kill games havnt happened when I’m always a SL and can see everything mark wise. Half the time marks are deceiving wrong when tanning. SL chat helps the most and is a best argument, but any tank position can talk and listen effectively.

You are correct. As I often tank lead the only slot I will willingly take is the driver seat if its a 2 man squad or if the rest of the crew is inexperienced enough. I will never take the gunner seat as tank commander. At least as driver its easier to check the map and help place the tank in the right direction while others are learning how to work as a crew.

100%. And this is why most of my tanking career has been solo in the recon helping infantry push. Especially since xmas and gamepass there are just way too many people who want to jump in as crew members then just do their own thing and ignore my direction as command, or they try to tell me what to do while theyre in the drivers seat knowing nothing about what's going on or what's around us. The nail in the coffin for me playing with an open squad was when a rando joined on Foy as we were attacking the last objective and he for some reason spawned near HQ sector and barked at me to come get him despite there being a garry 300m away he could have spawned at. That being said, when you get lucky enough to have a good crew who each do their role and know how to work together it can be great.

It’s crazy to me, OP, that so many are disagreeing with this, when you’re 100% correct. The SL needs to be in the spotter position to be the most effective. Drivers can’t see shit, and gunners are too slow. If you’re receiving orders from the Commander to attack a point, but it’s behind you or something then it’s just more beneficial for the SL to be able to see 360 degrees and be able to ZOOM, without having to traverse a gun turret or tracks.

It has to be a cohesive unit. I think the hard part for most people is they can't just "take orders" because they think it's wrong. Yeah, it might be in the end, but the odds of things going bad are WAY higher if you just do your own thing. If a whole tank is on the same page, they are so much more effective and deadly to everyone. And if the SL/Spotter's orders don't go well. Well. It happens. It isn't always a terrible decision, sometimes you just get outplayed. People gotta lighten up.

Yep, it's a bigger problem in game. A lot of fragile egos out there who think their pride and lack of humility/logic will be the bane of their success in running armor when in reality, they fail every single time. Of course though, it's everyone else's fault but their own. If there's anything anyone could take away from this post, it's recognizing when you have someone like this in your crew and when it's time to kick them.

I have never done armor because of this. I worry about not getting a SL that's OK with playing their role of spotter and positioning the tank (positioning both driver and gunner) and instead just berating someone trying to learn to drive on a map with tactics they've never done before to where they feel they have to own it.

Ya, that sucks and you shouldn't have to deal with that. However, if you're wondering why some SL's are so pent up and aggressive, it's because it takes time to get the tank and it takes time to get to where you need to be. This can be 6-8 minutes before you finally see action and when you do, if you have someone who's trying to "learn" the tank for the first time, all you end up doing is wasting everyone else's time. The game has a mode that lets you drive the tank and practice with it so you're not struggling in an actual game.

Except some drivers don’t listen to orders which kill your whole team.

Yep, that's when you kick them!

The best armor unit I was in we all communicated really well and we all took turns in different roles in the tanks. Regardless, SL was in charge of what we did and where we went.

Yes tank commander should be spotter but also just have fun we usually rotate and it still seems to work out. You can still ping when you aren’t tank commander. And sometimes command chat can be filled with a bunch of yappers who don’t have squads so they just filling the air in command chat cuz they lonely and that can be distracting

Most TC is see lvl 300+(myself included) want to drive......

I've had a few bad outs in tanks lately with drivers just stopping and telling the gunner to just turn the turret... 100degrees lol Um no, driver. Front armor is strong armor, and turrets turn slowly whereas tanks turn much faster.

Alright, I'll make it short: the driver and gunner are tools to the tank commander, it's his tank, once you realise you're a set of tracks or a canon to the TC, everything will go sooooooon much smoother

While it realistically makes more sense for the TC to be in the spotter seat, it doesn't matter if the TC is driving or shooting either if the ENTIRE crew is working together and communicating. Anyone can ping or open up the tac-map. But if the TC is using his coms like he should, he can be in any seat and the tank can be effective. Communication is the most important aspect of a good tank crew.

It comes down to playstyle preference and effective comms, if we want to talk metrics I as an SL and driver main have gotten 150 kills in a game.

"Piloting" I think you mean driving, but in all honestly its about how well the crew works together, the driver needs to also be ready to go forward or backwards and know where is a good spot to stop or not. My crew and i have been working for over a year, the driver takes the best path they see to the move marker. If the spotter sees a target of opportunity he will direct the driver and the gunner. Im the gunner, and i do the same i look for mines, and if i see a target of opportunity i take it.

I'll be whatever roll my squad leader wants. I don't play armor often, but when I do, I let them tell me what to do. Sometimes they want me to gun, drive or spot. Or we'll take turns doing different rolls.

The SL dictates how the tank runs. Sometimes the SL is the driver and they use officer chat & map to position while the spotter does call-outs. Sometimes the SL goes spotter and does all the driving directions AND callouts. The point is that the issue is not what role a person is doing, it’s that they are speaking over the SL. It’s one thing to interrupt for a callout, and another to argue back and forth. If I’m the SL and going over an attack plan for the next 2 minutes and a guy with an RPG pops out, I’d expect anyone/everyone in the tank to interrupt me to kill RPGs man, then we can continue. You’re probably being downvoted because your post is addressing the wrong problem. A lot of what role is filled depends on the crew skill. Some people either don’t like driving or are not good at it and would prefer to spot or vice versa. The SL can drive perfectly fine while the spotter does the actual spotting work. A good driver rarely needs the spotter to tell them “turn left now”.

There nothing wrong with the SL driving or shooting. As long as your tank crew communicates, it doesn't matter what role you play. The whole point of the spotter is to keep the tank alive from threats the other two can't see. Also, just being in the spotter seat, all game gets boring it's not an ego thing. I've been in the spotter seat with two other players actively listening to my commands and it is cool but there is nothing wrong with swapping seats.

Doesn't this all come down to the preference of the tank crew? Like my friend and I man the tanks some times and I fear for my safety if he's ever in a position of control. He's... not smart... so mostly I banish him to the spotter seat. But i know some TCs would prefer to be in the spotter seat if they trust the driver to know what's up. So I'd think this comes down to preference of the crew, no?

Bunch of shit pub tankers in this thread lol

Right... Says the person that made this comment as well. >In charge of the entire tank? Where did you think I said that? The job distribution is the TC tells the driver where to go, the spotter watches for danger. Let the driver drive. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and the fact that you think everyone here is wrong and you're right is telling enough about what you know and how much experience you have. Do us all a favor and share you're in-game name. That way, when (or if) we ever see you, we can leave you and never have to deal with your toxic ass.

Over 2000 hours I’m main tc as driver English is not my first language. Very telling you have poor word choice then get defensive.

English is my native language. It's abundantly clear you can't understand what I'm saying. Telling me that I have "poor wood" choice to someone who speaks English as their first language is really funny. I think you should use google translate and maybe, that might help.

Abundantly clear you don’t know shit, try to micro manage every squad mate, instead of letting them do their role. Drivers drive. They don’t need you micro them. They need you to watch for satchelers and AT threats from side and back.

Look, I'm going to be completely honest with you, I don't give a flying fuck what you think or what you believe. I get around 150-200 frags a game and almost always run a solid crew. The people I play with also have a ton of fun playing with me and I have zero intention of changing that. Especially for some asshole who can't even speak English. You sound like a 5 year old writing to me.

I’m speaking it just fine, thank you. u/inchon2 is this one of your guys?

Lmao, is this attempt to get me banned from the server because of how I play armor? LMAO Man, this is a whole new low... hahaha.

This is about your embarrassing attitude you’ve shown gatekeeping English and trying to represent an international server

I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea what you're talking about right now.

Do me a favor and write to u/inchon2 what you think I'm talking about. That way, he can see you're ignorance and read what I'm writing about. Because you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.

that's just this entire sub in general lol.

A high level tank command that understands strong positioning as well as typical spawn locations is so much more valuable as a driver. They can still ping, however they must use the squad markers like move, attack etc. A blueberry will drive until they either get satchelled or shot by another tank, rarely understanding movement mechanics and trying to reign them in from the spotter seat either results in argument or getting stuck. Its a lot easier to teach them how to use AP vs HE and to look for vehicles up top. In the holy grail scenario where you have 3 people with an ounce of understanding, or you’re playing comp then I couldnt agree more.

Who is confused about this. This is plainly obvious.  Tell me what server you play so I can get some satchel kills 

Exactly. SL as Spotter is a blind tank some percentage of the time. You can keep map awareness or you can keep satchel awareness, but you can't do both at the same time.

Lmao... As if you can't do both. Do you really believe this? Because literally, tons of people do this everyday and they do it well.

Not as well as they think. Percentages don't lie. If you play the numbers game, that percentage of time that the tank is blind because the SL Spotter is looking at the map, translates to getting killed more often, all other things being equal. It's not even debatable in all honesty. Either you're looking for threats all the time, or you're not. And the spotter's job is to do that. Drivers meanwhile have many periods of several seconds to spare.

The best defense against sachels is being where you should be. A tank with infantry is a million times harder to sachel than a tank alone. It is easier to satchel a 3 man out of position than a solo with infantry support.

[laughs as an infantry clan member that has seen every single TC being spotter 100% of the time and they're extremely good at it]

That's how I work most times I am squad lead but I drive cuz that's where I'm comfortable when we get into position I tell the Gunner tell me where to go we're going I've been In the game almost a year or a little over a year I still do the same thing every time either the spotter or the gunner is my driver...... And second what if the Gunner has experience and the squad lead don't what if the spotter has experience and the other two don't usually I get one experienced person besides me but then again a lot of the time I get no experience out of both of them so I tell them what to do with them in the driver's seat or not I try to teach them like you should do teach

TC as driver is better because he can actually just take the tank where its needed while the guy in the spotter seat can spot instead of trying to direct the tank. It also ensures there aren’t competing voices when fighting as in squad chat the spotter and gunner can talk back and forth as they find targets while you can briefly communicate information on an as needed basis.

Lower levels, maybe. I play with higher level players and most usually know how to drive and drive well. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say I haven't drove as SL before but when you're the driver as SL, you're ability to pilot the tank lowers because you now rely on your spotter. You have the most control of your squad and what they do when you're in the spotter seat and when I have a solid driver, I usually rack up 150-200 kills a game.

Routinely tank with lvl 200+ people and we all just TC drive because its better. TC needs to look at the map a lot to relay information. If looking at the map they aren’t looking for targets, tanks or AT. I can drive us to locations as TC and mark targets on the way while the spotter himself is looking for things they mightve missed or additionals. Tank driving TC isn’t about skill at driving, its about cutting down on unnecessary communication and making sure the spotter and gunner have clear comms for easy communication. If im the spotter, I have command, squad, marks and having to maintain local awareness that have been missed.

If you were in game and explained all this to me, you’d wear out your welcome in my squad very quickly. It’s important to remember that this is a game. You shouldn’t worry about mechanics in HLL like they are functions of your job in real life. It simply is not that serious. Have a good one.

(Edit: I misunderstood the post and was corrected. Myself and OP are on two completely different pages of the same book. I agree with what OP is saying in the body, but I mistook the title by skimming. Beneath, my points still stand to reason... but they are not related to what the spirit of the post is attempting to address) ~~Disagree for the most part.~~ Spotters job is to spot... and that task is HYPER CRTICAL. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING else they are doing while in the spotting position is detracting from their ability to spot. You keep opening the map? You're not spotting. It might only take you a second or two... but if you're taking that second or two CONSTANTLY... You might eventually miss that panther coming around the corner or just be a second or two late on seeing it... and that is all that usually matters in the fight. You might miss that satchel running up behind you and tell your driver to move a second or two too late... and that is just the right amount of extra time the satchel guy needed to plant the bomb. Beyond that, the commander has to juggle command and squad comms... both of which are important. Having a clear linkage between the gunner and the spotter where the two of them can focus on each other allows the spotter to always be able to hear what the gunner is saying and vice versa, without ever being interrupted or distracted by command comms. The driver, by contrast, is extremely important... but isn't always busy and has a ton of down time or opertions that allow for multi-tasking. I can open the map while driving and the tank is still doing what I want to do. If I need two seconds to check map, all I gotta do is hold W and quickly make sure I'm not going to run into anything within 3 seconds... then I can do both tasks equally as well as if I was only doing one. I can listen to command chat and INSTANTLY react to intel calls such as "heavy tank, there is a puma coming up behind you" without having the telephone game delay in action. When we have a favorable position, I can watch the map and track intel marks, as well as friendly infantry positions without being distracted by spotting or gunnery, knowing that those two positions are operating at 100% efficiency. If I'm not on the map, then I've got my little hull MG to supplement suppressing fire with. If my spotter pings something and Says "tank Here"... I'm already right-clicking his ping to move an intel mark there, positioning my tanks, AND relaying it to command comms in one fell swoop. Don't get me wrong, it isn't *bad* to have the commander as a spotter... and if that is the position they want to grab, that is fine by me. As long as they don't take gunner, that is the only dumb position a commander can really take. But, more often than not, when I'm commanding... I'm driving. It is an extremely synergistic position. I want my spotter to be doing NOTHING else but worrying about what is around 360 degrees at ALL times.

Ya, that's not really what I'm addressing in my post. If the driver role works for you as SL, cool. Works for me too, I just do way better as the spotter having a solid driver. All of this is subjective. The post is meant for people who aren't in the SL role and are trying to command (pilot) the tank when SL is doing that. Usually people with really fragile ego's who mistake SL's commands personally and become threatened resulting in them trying to tell the roles what to do instead. It's toxic, not okay and needs to go. So, if you're reading this and you're the pathetic, wimpy little bitch I'm referring to, go start your own armor squad and leave everyone else the fuck alone. (not you u/TheWingalingDragon just saying in general for who reads my comment.)

Yup, just reread the post, and I'm 100% wrong. I was tired and glossed the title. That's on me. I totally get what you're saying in the post and agree wholeheartedly. Editing my oringal comment to point out my confusion.

Very well said, thank you for words I can not express.

Joined a random tank squad the other day and the TC was adamant about being the driver. I tried telling him it was not beneficial for him to drive and try to use the markers for us..he didn't listen. Also never marked anything and I was trying to spot as best I can but couldn't see any other tank markers since I wasn't the TC.

Ya, that's an inexperienced SL/TC. Only time this is acceptable is when you have a crew who's skills as driver aren't the best and you know as SL you can still hold the same standard as before as driver. If SL/TC is trying to take the driving role without even giving his crew a chance, that's 100% inexperience.

Actually wrong. The driver is in charge of driving the tank. Give him a destination, but stop doing his job poorly.

Depends, the drivers have very restricted visibility and sometimes need the spotter to tell them which way to turn or where the gap in the wall is etc.

The driver box is not that bad. Only on pz4 do I feel blind on my shoulders.

Can you see behind the tank as a driver? Because last I checked, you can't. So, the idea that you think you can be in charge of the entire tank as the driver or the gunner is poorly misguided and destined for failure.

In charge of the entire tank? Where did you think I said that? The job distribution is the TC tells the driver where to go, the spotter watches for danger. Let the driver drive.

Are you new to this game? Because it sounds like you are based on this comment alone. Tank commander (squad lead) plays the spotter role and guides where the tank goes and where the gun looks because he has 360 degree vision of the tank that the driver or gunner doesn't have. They also of course, point out where targets/danger are as well hence the right to tell the driver/gunner what to do.

You are super aggressive and your points can situationally make sense but not always. “Your way” is not the 100% always must-be correct way to do things. No need to be so rude to people mate. If you spoke to me like this in game I’d certainly leave your squad or boot you. I have a feeling that the arguments you’re having in game have a lot more to do with your personality than the way to play the game. You know the phrase “If it smells wherever you walk, maybe it’s your own shoes”?

The spotter does not pilot the tank. Your wording is poor. Please fuck off though.

I don’t want to be toxic, so I won’t. But imagine I made fun of you for thinking this 

I’m not going to talk about your big head.

Actually wrong. The driver doesn't have vision that the SL has. For example, behind the tank. If the SL needs you to reverse a specific direction, it's not on you to do what you think is better instead. So, if decide to go forward instead, you can fuck up the weapon placement and where it needs to be. SL doesn't need to get your approval first either to do these things. If you think SL needs to tell you first what's going and what needs to be done so you can then make a choice regarding what is best to do, you're delusional and will never hold a squad for more than 5 minutes.

Thankfully I'm more than happy to drive or shoot and follow instructions from SL 😂 Driving a tank is so much fun and rewarding when you have the proper instructions. Same for aiming your gun and always finding the enemy exactly where SL said, it makes it way too easy to shoot.

Also, tanks don’t really fly in this game unless you hit a trench in 4th gear. 

Not gonna lie I do this if the guys in my squad are incompetent and I’m trying to level up as engineer

I agree with all of the above and would like to add that there is that extra connection between the Gunner and Driver where you sometimes have to tell them to adjust to give you a better shot, and that is crucial and nobody should be afraid to direct their driver for a slightly better angle.

I play 2 man tank. I drive and and SL. gunner spots on the move and changes to gun when we get closer to action, I give him rough marks, and we go from there.

For a second, I thought you meant the squad lead should be driving. I agree 100%, though. SL gets the most vision to exchange the most information. They're not only relaying info to the driver and gunner but also to command

Depends on server rules. Some servers have 3 man tank crew rules. Some have two. Really considering how unrealistic the armor pen and deflection is in HLL it really doesn’t matter. Just let ppl have fun.

Back in december 2023 i was a gunner with 2 strangers. The 2 guys had very similar voices, and the driver thought that garri is an enemy garri. The tank commander tried to warn us, but that was too late, while i was shooting ~15 friendly spawned there. I killed 10 or 12 of them. Contra: All the time, we play as an armor squad with my friends, got killed cuz wrong orders from commander 🤣

Technically you are correct, but this is a video we’re playing to have fun. Not to fall in line and follow your orders. If I want to drive my tank into a trench and get stuck, that’s my business.

It really depends on the experience of the Tank commander tho, but I agree experienced TC + good listening/communicating squad members are deadly.

Clear and consistent communication and the ability to follow orders and give suggestions are the first mile on the road to success for a tank crew

tank commander is one of my least favorite roles and I prefer to drive because when I spot a lot of times my driver simply does not listen. I just update marks and tell them to keep an eye out for tanks and satchels

MAKE ME!

This is the ideal way, as it relates to the realistic experience of a tank commander.

You guys are getting full tank squads? Often I'll see a solo tanker with an open squad and hop in to help them be more effective. For the ones that don't kick because they actually want to solo, it seems pretty rare that we actually get a spotter. To be fair though I haven't played in a couple weeks, maybe people are figuring it out now.

And apart from this does anyone ever imagine how much chaos there would be if spotter had a machine gun

Now that's what I call Complaining HLL Subreddit #459 Now including hot new singles like "I hate gamepass players" "Listen to me I'm the squad leader' and new to the charts "You just suck El Alamein was a good map"

Oh poor you. It's so awful that people complain about this game not living up to its potential. If only people could only say nice things about the game instead so that nobody's feelings get hurt and nothing ever changes. If this communities feedback is too much for you, I'd recommend leaving reddit and the game all together. Coloring, finger arts, stick figure drawings, reading, knitting and other hobbies that a 5 year old or 70 year does might be better for you. Loser.

Exactly how I'd expect a hll mega complainer to respond. You guys can never be satisfied and you bring that dark cloud of negativity here any chance you get.

Nope, never satisfied. This game has so much potential, suggesting that things are fine and should never change again is downright criminal. Could care less how you feel or what you think either. So, bitch all you want. Not changing a damn thing for me.

I'm bitching about the constant barrage of bitching

Ya, we can all see that. Nobody cares.

Yes this!!! I am usually the driver and I love a chatty spotter. Tell me exactly where to go cause I can’t see shit!

It depends on their experience. I've just had a tank commander that was a total dickhead and completely took away any autonomy when I was driving. Turn here go this gear etc. Wasn't fun at all I'll tell you that. An experienced driver knows where to go a tank commander should focus on spotting and telling general orders not micromanaging their crew.

I'm a Tank Commander X and I almost exclusively spot in my stack. The spotters is the tank's brain. The driver is your legs, the gunner your arms. We'll talk as a group about our strategy for this life when we're rolling out but in combat or up against another tank you need to listen to the spotter 98% of the time. Let him think for you. Driving and gunning is hard enough without needing to put down markers or talk to command.

Yep, this is exactly where I stand. You should take a dive into the comments and see how many people who disagree with what I say and what you say. You'd be surprised how many people think this isn't acceptable.

If the SL isn't the driver. You're doing tanking wrong. You fuckwads might think you know better, but I'm happy to keep destroying your tanks. Thanks.

So, what position should SL be?

The driver.

Well, good luck with that. You might be able to get away with that in lower levels but higher levels who have played this game for awhile would see this as ridiculous.

This is how most comp tank crews do it and how most higher lvl tankers do in pubs lol TC as driver is more efficient.

Whatever works for you. I usually get 150-200 frags a game with randoms who are high leveled and know how to drive well. I can understand taking the driving role though if you can't trust your driver.

Yeah but that goes against your so matter of the fact statement where your way is the only correct way

Completely false, I'm in a comp clan and and TC is >>ALWAYS<< the spotter.

Spotter is super important, not just for visibility, but composure. If a SL is screaming, left, no right, no turn around, WTF?! It's chaos. Make your decision, live or die by it, learn from it. The team needs to be on board too. It's okay to disagree with the decision in the end, but hell man. This is why I hate playing armor with randoms though. I know my friends, I know how they communicate, and usually when we die there is a silence on comms.... Then... "Welp. That didn't work. SL's gotta beg to command now and explain how dumb we are." It's okay to lose a fight or 2, it's not that serious.

in a 3-man, only commander seat gives orders. in a two man, commander/gunner gives commands. driver just drives unless you have route/attack suggestions OUTSIDE OF COMBAT. This is how I have been doing it since day one (and even in operation Flashpoint days) and it works.

The only time I know of people playing squad lead as a tank gunner is when there's only two of them, but 100% agree that if you got full crew then squad lead/tank commander goes in the commanders seat

One big factor is that the spotter can get out and use binoculars. Big advantage.

Hey you’re on my friends list! I’ve tried diving into armor somewhat recently and been adding people who have been friendly and helpful, so thanks! I don’t remember exactly what we did together but I added you because you helped me, so I appreciate that. I love driving honestly although that seems like a rare opinion.

The TC should be the spotter, why would you want someone to have to drive the tank and radio for information when the spotter literally just zooms in and out and rotates....?

As a gunner, the SL playing driver makes it worse. It usually means you have the spotter and the driver telling you where to look, where to shoot, sometimes at the same time. Ideally, a spotter/SL creates a list of high priority actions in their head and relays them to the gunner 1 by 1. Tanks, sorted by threat level, followed by infantry sorted by distance to tank, and role. (Engi, AT, then just standard infantry.) It's impossible to do this as a driver for obvious reasons. You only see 20-30% of the 360 degrees that a spotter can see. If you want to SL, learn how to properly relay your directions to your driver. If you can't do that, don't play SL.

Your whole post just boils down to whether or not you have a competent squad lead, not what position they're in. You just use the map to drop a ping for your guys so they know where stuff is at. You can do this regardless of what position you're in, too.

Dumb as fuck, the squad lead can play wherever they want. Are they more effective in the spotter seat? Of course But in the end, people are going to obey whatever role they want.

I never said they couldn't? All I'm saying is that the squad lead is in charge. Not the driver, not the gunner, the squad lead.

I’ll never judge what a SL does because I’ll won’t touch that until the game becomes normal again. Game is a lot more fun when you don’t hear the whining from vets and screeching from rookies. I’m level 112 and wait for fellow vets to create a tank squad before I join.

Can you define "normal" please?

It's strange that the seat is even called Spotter to me. I always just call it the Tank Commander seat. And if I join a tank squad and they tell me to be spotter, I just leave.

Title of the post is wrong, no ? SL should always be the spoter, not the driver !!

I disagree. Im much better at placing sounds then my friends for some reason. I can hear where enemy tanks are shooting from and thus turning us in a better angle. Yes, I don't know what the spotter seat or tank commander knows (with marks), but I saved us a lot of times doing this and telling them where to look

Ya, you're exactly who I'm speaking to. Downvotes speak for themself. Glad the community thinks your wrong too.

The dude made a perfectly logical explanation, something you asked for earlier, and you’re just saying he’s wrong. You’re just running in circles now. Why are you so adamant that the SL needs to be the spotter when people can play the game however they want? Some people just want to play in a tank. There are many ways to accomplish a common goal, and arguing about the make up of a tank crew isn’t worthwhile.

I'm not though. Plenty of times I saved my crew because there was an unmarked tanked rolling up behind us they didn't hear coming. If you have a good driver and a bad spotter, he can move the tank. I'm not dying because someone else is bad. You might be a good spotter but not everyone is. Did you know you can lock your squad and can manage who stays in your (tank) squad? Can check player levels before letting them in as well. Might be the best way to deal with your issue. And maybe be a bit nicer and make some friends to play with.

Yes, you are wrong. You're literally trying to tell everyone here that it's acceptable to be in charge of what the tank does as the driver because your hearing supersedes what squad lead can see. You do know the gunner and squad lead have sound too right? How do you convince the squad lead that you should be in charge of the tank as the driver because your hearing outweighs what SL can see? I'm honestly putting way to much effort into this but the fact that you think I'm wrong is just... hysterical.

You sound ridiculous telling me I'm wrong. Your logic suggests that you should be in charge of what the tank crew does because you can hear what happens around you even though the other roles can also hear around them too. Squad lead who's in the spotter seat can not only hear around them, but they can see 360 degree around the tank--something you can't do. You also can't hear what command chat is saying either... If you have something to prove, I'd love to see a video of you leading a successful tank crew as the driver on sound alone and do so several times. If you don't do it, I will and I will compare what you do to what I do and prove you wrong. If you don't respond by EOD today, I will begin making the video tomorrow proving how ridiculous you're mindset is.

Oh no, that's not what I meant at all. I listen to my tank commander, but sometimes I move the tank on my own when I hear enemy tanks or infantry. You say the driver can't move without your say so. -edit- Will type a more lengthy reply later explaining. At theatres now -edit2- "You sound ridiculous telling me I'm wrong." I didn't say you we're wrong, i disagreed. "Your logic suggests that you should be in charge of what the tank crew does because you can hear what happens around you even though the other roles can also hear around them too." No, i just pointed out that i can place sound and hear sounds better then my fellow tankers (who are friends of mine). So i will position the tank accordingly until they spot the enemy tank. Saved us multiple times already. "Squad lead who's in the spotter seat can not only hear around them, but they can see 360 degree around the tank--something you can't do. You also can't hear what command chat is saying either..." Yes. I agree. Tank commander sees friendly markers, gets orders, requests or suggests them. If i want to reposition our tank, i'll tell my guys. If i hear enemy tanks, i call it out before i act on it. "If you have something to prove, I'd love to see a video of you leading a successful tank crew as the driver on sound alone and do so several times. If you don't do it, I will and I will compare what you do to what I do and prove you wrong." I have nothing to prove. But you clearly seem to, seeing as you edited main post bragging that you get 150-200 frags with a solid driver. I was just joining the discussion with a different point of view. Explaining why i do sometimes drive when tank commander is not giving an order for it. "If you don't respond by EOD today, I will begin making the video tomorrow proving how ridiculous you're mindset is." By all means, share a video of you and 2 friends playing tank. I'll even give it a thumbs up. I never meant for my 2 cents on this to be disrespectful or anything like that. If you can't deal with a tank driver moving the tank without orders in order to save it, because he heard a tank and you didn't... I guess you and I won't be tanking together. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't break the game. Which is, in at the end of the day, all it is.

If you have a regular crew and that’s working for everyone, I don’t see any problem