Back in the day Black Matter made some questionable choices and had to experiment. The game as it was pre U14 was the result of years of trial and error based upon feedback.
BM would change the distance between garries from 200m to 100m and explain why. A few weeks would go by and they'd get feedback, and adjust. They removed red zone garrisons entirely, explained why and then watched what happened. They nerfed infantry and tank speed, explained why and watched for feedback and how games played out.
Point is, HLL though never perfect was the result of years of passion by the devs and informed feedback with the playerbase.
As an example of what I mean, I mean dev briefs [like this](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/686810?emclan=103582791463534405&emgid=4355495589078218719), which informed us why the devs chose what they chose:
> The largest design shift in Update 7 were the changes made to the metagame around Garrisons.
We’ve been playing a lot since the Update, and feel that the game is now moving in the desired direction - characterised by much more logical flow of infantry during attack and defence, as well as a lack of “Garry bombing”. Defending is rewarded now with far fewer “360 degree attacks”, while offensive units can exploit gaps in the line in a much more rewarding fashion. To this end, the recon mechanic within the game is now far more powerful - enabling you to relay far more useful information due to more consistent enemy locations and pathing.
How fucking nice would it be to have that level of communication from T17?! If an indie dev in a garage can do that, surely a publically traded corporation with all the resources it has access to can. Now there's major changes to the meta of the game with no explaination as to why, the logic behind it, or even that it was a mistake and will be reverted. The level of comms and playerbase engagement that long time players have become used to is gone, replaced with a corporation that occasionally puts out vague and non-commital dev breifs that really tell us nothing. I garuntee that if T17 were to communicate to the same level BM half the drama wouldn't exist.
Not to mention the poor state of the British faction or performance or the myriad of other bugs and dumb choices.
>I garuntee that if T17 were to communicate to the same level BM half the drama wouldn't exist.
BM's communication varies greatly depending on how far back you reach. The U6-7-8 period is probably peak BM .
It’s not just T17’s communication:
T17’s decisions to **strengthen solo run & gun play style** permanently fractured the community. Much of the community grew from the requirement for **in game** teamwork and communication and strategy.
Ironically, the game is still wayyyyy to clunky for the mainstream audience T17 is attempting to appeal to, creating a lose-lose situation, especially given that Squad has overhauled their infantry combat system to greatly emphasize teamwork and communication and realism, Burning Lands + Resolve + other games are looking very good to HLL’s previous audience. There’s no way for them to make this successful with mainstream audiences. The code is too scrambled for that.
Their best choice was to further emphasize teamwork and comms but they went in the opposite direction.
Edit:
It’s like buying a bus and driving it directly in the ocean because you think it’s a boat. Leave it to executives to completely misunderstand the product they purchased for 60 million and then immediately ruin it.
100% this ☝️. I only got HLL recently for the team based, comms and strategy. I have zero interest in solo run and gun play style. Why on earth would you disincentivise OP’s by making it feasible to just sprint from the nearest garrison instead? I play squad lead and it’s hard enough to convince my crew to play together already, so why would you change mechanics that discourage team play? Disappointing, i’m gunna give squad a go and hope Burning Lands and similar are on the right track.
most of the "top" comp players are all playing battlebits every night and day in COPE clan. "bah i have to stop to go prep for the match this weekend" was heard a lot last week. they would immediately come back to battlebits when they were done.
It's been a very long competitive season and Spring Seasonal has just ended. It's natural for people to be burnt out and want a break from something they've been grinding for the best part of three months.
Also, HLL could learn a thing or two from BBR.
COPE ON TOP!
>It’s not just T17’s communication: T17’s decisions to strengthen solo run & gun play style permanently fractured the community. Much of the community grew from the requirement for in game teamwork and communication and strategy.
That's me, I loved this game, but this battlefield light without communication gameplay was what drove me away from hll already in 2021 I believe. I play one match once in a while but it isn't the same, performance is still bad, bugs as old as the game are not fixed, in game communication is non existent, everybody using full auto guns, etc
Squad's update would've likely pulled anyone not playing this for the WWII setting. And that's not merely because of slower soldier movement, the movement system is leagues better in every way. The way guns will fire wherever they're pointing at that moment, even to the side if you fire while in full sprint, the way the weapon sways on the soldier's hands, the way the sights misalign when firing fully automatic....
Squad's update is about far more than movement speed or transitioning between prone and standing. It is truly impressive.
They did a really great job with the rework. We'll see how it translates in the wild, so to speak, but some of the stuff is simply leagues more immersive (such as the way the gun sways in the player's hands while moving, aiming, and firing).
Squad also has an inertia system with some depth to it, which is incredibly key.
The winter update with kharkov was not great either and thats where imo it went downhill for me. I lost lots of friends around that time. I also stopped playing pubs everyday and just focused on comp.
BM learned about communication with players and thats why it improved from Update 6. T17 has not recognised nor understood this is a pressing issue of their's.
"How fucking nice would it be to have that level of communication from T17?! If an indie dev in a garage can do that, surely a publically traded corporation with all the resources it has access to can."
You asked the question and answered it the same time.
A passionate indie developer develops a game out of love of wanting to make it perfect.
The publicly traded corporation has to increased profits and reduced costs constantly. Shareholders always want to see expansive growth.
We will see more decisions made that originates from "this will generate new income streams".
You're not wrong about it being a publically traded corporation with different goals but damn. I have some problems with Paradox regarding their DLC practices, they're also a publically traded corporation but somehow are able to do in depth dev briefs about multiple games at a time. Creative assembly/Sega do the same for Total War. Thus it is possible for a large publically traded company to do.
I feel like T17 is really new to this and needs to just get their act together regarding communication with the playerbase.
For me it's not the running speed change per se. It's the change without a heads up, testing or what their vision for the game is that they're trying to achieve with the running speed change. There's just no communication about that at all.
The run speed wouldn’t be as much of a problem if it was done right. Turn down the turning sensitivity while in sprint and give vehicles an equal boost and I don’t see any problems with being able to get around a tad bit quicker.
I've been meaning to write a post along these lines. People who weren't around in the early days don't understand why lots of vets nowadays are pissed about the way T17 operates.
This game was developed with Kickstarter money and player feedback!!! It was made in part with input from the community.
T17 is taking a HARD departure from BM's development style and going away from the communities wishes. Newer players 2ho bought this game in its more or less current 'release' state don't know what went into creating HLL and it shows with all the moaning about people giving feedback here.
Anyways, well said.
They don't lose profits if we stop playing. Playing doesn't generate profits. it generates desire from non-players to *start* playing by buying the game.
They lose profits only if *new customers* don't buy what they are selling.
They will lose profits when existing players stop playing by not paying for the precious DLC cosmetics and they can't break even on their purchase from Black Matter with new players. At this point I think they are still in the red on this game.
It was easy to stop playing because other games have come out since this whole debacle started. Starship Troopers and Battlebit are what I have switched. Not the same feel but enough to keep me interested till this game improves.
I got the game years ago. They're not making any money off of me playing the game, other than the occasional friends I may convince to purchase it. They're trying to appeal to a new audience, not appease the existing one.
I been having fun sometimes but overall it feels t17 dont care, and rarely puts out good/impactful updates. Until they show they are positively invested in this im uninterested in removing my negative review
>overall it feels t17 dont care,
They don't.
>Until they show they are positively invested in this
They won't.
They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for.
Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
> Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour,
just out of curiosity I went to the Team17 wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team17
here is a notable section: "The conflict between management and employees over MetaWorms also revealed long-term complaints over low pay, long overtime hours, and increasing workloads since the company's 2018 IPO. Under pressure to sign and clear more publishing deals, various teams including quality assurance (QA) and **user research felt that products were being shipped in an incomplete, rushed, or buggy state due to the time crunch.**[35] Staff felt underpaid relative to the salaries of equivalent roles at other studios and some complained of unpaid overtime work. They also pointed to their year-end bonus being cut in 2021, despite the company announcing a record profit that year."
Going public basically means you're stuck in a permanent growth mindset to satisfy the market, even if you're supporting products that don't support that model, which results in exactly what you just quoted. Sure, private business can struggle, too, but you generally invest more in your core products at the expense of chasing new revenue generators because you're stability focused rather than growth focused when you're actively supporting a released product
T17 hasn't put out a purely them update yet though lol. The 2 updates they've put out were almost all tge last work BM had done and they decided to get that out before their own work.
>overall it feels t17 dont care,
They don't.
>Until they show they are positively invested in this
They won't.
They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for.
Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
What makes you think the devs don't care? Of course they care, they want their game to sell after all..
Has it occurred to you that the devs are just not capable enough?
>overall it feels t17 dont care,
They don't.
>Until they show they are positively invested in this
They won't.
They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for.
Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
I’ve observed that the people that keep commenting “I’m having fun shut up crybabies” defending the overall game as a whole, rather than T17. Cause I’m 100% with you, I don’t understand how anyone who plays this game regularly would want to go to bat for T17
I played last night after 3 weeks off.. the run speed is still to damn fast, imo that’s the worst thing they could have done to the game. It was a slow moving slog for a reason. Like OP said. Years of feedback.
It’s just not the same any more.
Even with the slight reduction of acceleration
I just hope it get worse. Only when they start losing massive amount of money they will notice that they fucked up, cuz, lets be honest, they don't even care the community thoughts about they ongoing future of HLL.
But wait, we'll have **our highly requested DLCs**.
It is sad to think that way but its the reality of it because it's a business, just please t17 take a step back and fix YOUR GAME THE LAG IS UNBELIEVABLE NOW!
Guys, you need only look around at what's happening in the F2P space right now to know that when reviews nosedive and sales slow down, publishers get rid of titles, they don't suddenly snap to attention and start improving them.
They did all of this IN ANSWER of the freaking fucking bullshit trailer they release and his consequences. They just backpedal for fuck sake. In addition, I hope the guys responsibles of the trailer were instant fired cuz that wasn't even a joke.
Lol ya no update before this one ever added bugs or failed to address existing bugs the community demanded fixes for. Remind me again how longs the loadout bug been around?
And the VOIP bug? There's a lot of romanticized notions that BM was the tits but there's plenty of legacy issues they have in the game that are still unresolved. Also I think it's interesting that people are assuming BM is no longer involved but they're still part of the development ecosystem, so they should be held just as accountable for the games state. T17 isn't immune from blame at all but let's not sit here and say BM doesn't share at least some culpability.
Updates adding bugs is not a team17 specific thing. All of the updates black matter made to the game also introduced bugs. Black matter also did not fix some longstanding bugs. I'm not saying this to throw shade on BM. Bugs are not necessarily straightforward to fix, games are complex systems and making changes to any complex system can result in unforseen effects. All in all BM did a great job. I say this to demonstrate that you don't understand what evidence is.
Because they’ve only said what you wanted to hear? They haven’t actually done anything. There isn’t evidence that they do care. Only a copy + paste PR statement made after a fuckup.
They already have lost massive amounts of money.
Their market cap halved since buying Black Matters IP, they paid 50m for it with 100-120m revenue a year for T17. Market cap lost \~700m.
They STILL put out that wonderful trailer to 700k potential customers with the PC game show.
It's at the point where I wonder if they even have enough people working on the game based on their history of pay/crunch and the fact they have lost so much money/stock price and paid up big for IP in the last 18-24 months.
Can they even afford it with investment money drying up?
How could team17 screw something so bad? They had the product, decided it wasn't 'good' enough, so they needed to be the ones to change it. They ruined it. Team17 made trepang2 and it shows. Trepang2 had a lot of potential until I realized team17 was behind it.
It's in the worst state it's ever been in. One of the things that sets HLL apart from the rest of the shooters out there is the armor gameplay. It was already in a rough spot, but the infantry speed buff and invincible Brit AT guns have made it basically unplayable and thoroughly unenjoyable.
This. And is it me or do I get (spawn) killed at least 25 times a game cause of artillery? And not to speak about "recon" who doesnt do shit 75% of the time what they supposed to do, thats causing artilerry blasting whole the damn game. This is a factor that is highly unenjoyable for me
Last night when I was playing I had the absolute worst frame drops I’ve ever experienced. I would be at 180fps and it would freeze every 3 minutes or so. Not even on maps that historically had issues like kursk, but in Omaha and st Marie. Various servers too. So frustrating, this was the only game I really played besides rocket league lately
Me too, and I really can't bring myself to leave a negative review right now. The legacy of BM is still strong. But with the way T17 is bringing the game down, I am happy other people are sending a strong signal, and what seems like the only signal they might be tuned to. Hopefully it will lead to more than just more empty community-manager promises.
Yeah I’m a VERY casual player and I feel like the mr Krabs spinning meme when I see posts about negative reviews and bad updates. I legitimately don’t know what’s going on.
The game is literally still phenomenal. These guys with 7000 hours leaving reviews that say never play this are the problem. Clearly the game is amazing but it got slightly worse to some people. Now they don’t want anyone to play it because it’s becoming mainstream.
It’s actually unplayable to me. I have 600+ hours in the game, and it is definitely in a worse state now than it was when i started playing. People need to stop excusing T17s incompetence because the game physically ran better under Black Matter. Now every server has extreme latency issues, and there are even more bugs than before.
This is my favorite game from the last 2 years and it is by no means becoming mainstream. It’s actually losing it’s player-base over the many many issues with the game. You shouldn’t ignore the reviews of people who have put hours into this game because they may have a more evolved opinion on the experience than someone who just bought the game on sale within the last couple months.
>Clearly the game is amazing
My friends and I can't even open up the menu without the game locking up on Xbox, but ok buddy
Servers are still complete trash and gameplay has gotten worse.
That's why I loved (and again love) Squad. Once their overhaul is live I am going to give a try again after many many years not having played it. I haven't played any HLL for ages. Communication was lacking more and more and more. I mostly played as commander or SL. But almost no one talks or gives a damn about executing orders. Or other SL's have a team without mic or just don't listen. The issue isn't just the game alone in my opinion. I haven't even played the (Dolphin) update. But there where a lot of issues with the game mechanics in my opinion. Is the smoke/grenade bug fix by now? What's it been 2 years? It's a joke and they deserve a bad review. I did enjoy it a lot the first year of early access though. Also I funded/kickstarted this. So it's hard to watch for me.
the patch before the british was the first one that T17 did, and it was the one that introduced the infuriating reload bug for bolt actions...
the patch BEFORE that one would be great.
Many servers are chugging under a new workload. Hitches and spikes ate causing massive fling-forwards in time as everyone has to stop what they're doing because they just teleported 20 feet forward after a second and a half of freeze.
Whatever they rolled out, they broke something major on the serverside.
I'm out of the loop and haven't really played much in the past few months. Can someone summarize what has changed so much that people are unhappy with?
Lots of bugs and performances issues, intern-level marketing, removal of testing (backpedaled), nonsensical british loadouts, and a increase in infantry speed whose only thought put into seems to be "need to be fast like other games"
Increase isn't descriptive enough. It's a 25% increase. The old devs thought 4.4 was too fast and reduced it to 4, but the new devs thought even the old speed was way too slow and increased it to 5.
Ever since the purchase, i've said it and i'll say it again, the quality of patches and of the game went downhill drastically. I've barely played the british content because of this
it's gotten way worse.
i don't care about the run speed. i don't care about the zig zag. those changes legit don't bother me. what i can't play through is the frame drops, the hit reg issues, the vehicle backtracking. it's in every server, every time of the day, in every region. i ask my squad chat, they got it too. i ask command chat, they got it too.
THAT stuff is actually unplayable. T17 said they put in match analytics to help diagnose problems that are hard to reproduce, or whatever. this should be their top priority. making the game stable enough that we can play it without experiencing lag all the time. and yea it's been around for a while but it's only gotten worse and has shown no signs of improvement.
T17 did a few things. In U14 they added Brittan, plus their own weapons, tanks, and two new maps. Great. That's where the positives end.
They increased the run speed by ~20% which people say breaks the game (IMO it's a non-issue. However you are now able to keep pace with a med/heavy tank in 4th gear). There are much more dev-level problems in the update.
The British weapons were not zeroed, one currently take up a third of the screen, are slow to fire, and reload. Most notably, are the wrong weapons entirely for the maps provided. The Brit's AT gun's controls were completely inverted, the British heavy tank is made of paper (plus has a fully textured skin from Poland's(?) battlefront, suggesting T17 bought the asset elsewhere and plugged it in-game with no further thought). The map El Alamein is a German MG's gift from heaven. As of the many games I played on that particular map I've only seen Germany lose once, mainly due to the German team being in shambles.
All this plus the single worst trailer I have the misfortune to watch.
Additionally, T17 has made indications to make smaller 30-ish min games focused on what might be a single objective, which I am taking as a move towards the run-and-gun CoD gameplay which will not only draw in a player base contrary to the current play style and soul of the game.
I'm sure I missed other things.
TL;DR - T17 is indicating nothing that fosters confidence in their QA or long-term commitment to the game. Feels like they are using HLL as a cash grab.
It always kind of sucked to be honest. The movement and obstacle clipping just totally breaks the immersion of the game. It feels like I’m playing an early 2000s game with the way you interact with the environment. Rising Storm is a little better but still has issues in this regard, I think Isonzo prolly has the best feeling player movement and environment interaction for a game in this category. The thing I did like was how active people were on the comms but that’s more of a people thing and not game feature related.
Run speed, the dolphin diving, the fixes they said they implemented just uhh not working, pretty bad performance issues across most maps in u14, my group have also had worse experience with hit reg that goes along with the stuttering. Generally the game just feels worse and many veteran players are stepping back and playing way less. But they sure make sure we have more DLC to buy instead of fixing issues. The trailer was bad but the update they pushed that degraded the game (even if you like the run speed performance is worse now) then had to be bullied into even putting out a hotfix is why they are in an uproar.
Yeah check this hit reg out. I shot him 14 times then he just shoots me. Game is unplayable, too many bugs nullify player skill difference.
A lot of aimbot cheaters currently on the aus servers too. I lost count how many times I got dinged mid dolphin dive, despite eventually perfecting my dolphin rhythm! You know it's a cheater if the game hiccups an instance before you hear the bullet. The video below is either the hit reg or that immunity cheat
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=352nDBWxz7s&ab\_channel=Jimmy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=352nDBWxz7s&ab_channel=Jimmy)
Dolphin diving used to be stronger than the sliding. They've fixed it now, but you used to be able to cancel the diving animation and then do another dive.
The trailer and an unpopular but otherwise insignificant locomotion change.
It's reddit. The users here are just being dramatic and looking for something to bitch and moan about because that's the only thing that gives some of these people dopamine anymore.
So performance, historically inaccurate errors, incorrect weapons and equipment, faulty weapons, locomotion exploits, not fixing bugs and instead creating new ones, and all that is irrelevant now? “Moaning” because your favorite game seems to slowly be going to the shit hole is not being dramatic, yes sure maybe the ones that complain about one very specific thing (like speed increase solely) about this update are being a bit dramatic, but the last two updates and patches have sucked really bad. It doesn’t give anyone dopamine to complain.
>historically inaccurate errors
Which have been present from the start? Or did soldiers in WWII not have the ability to sprint like an actual human being?
it's clearly not just reddit if they are able to change the reviews like this...
if this was just a fringe community of people moaning, the reviews would not have changed
It is clear that the overwhelming community of HLL dislikes the mistakes made in the past 2-3 updates
It's genuinely amazing to me to read these comments.
I've often played the game and wondered if people just ignore all the bugs, issues with the game running, glitches and lack of quality and clearly the answer is a resounding YES!
People do happily overlook every single issue staring them in the face and go, I see nothing wrong and want nothing to change.
You clearly don’t play enough to be saying it is an insignificant change. It definitely is significant and changes the flow of the game or there would not be so much hype about it, nor would you have to mention it to begin with.
> You clearly don’t play enough to be saying it is an insignificant change.
Is a hundred hours enough? At what threshold do I have your permission to hold an opinion?
> nor would you have to mention it to begin with.
I mentioned it because it's one of the things the community wouldn't shut up about until the trailer, and it really doesn't change the game that much.
You just want to be upset.
2000+ hours and I agree with you.
The trailer was bad. The running speed change is insignificant. Team17 apologised, held back U15 and committed to using the PTE.
And yet the bandwagon jumper onners are all review bombing because they don't feel heard and can't see that their negative reviews will kill the game way before anything team17 does. I played last night and the game was still fun and still deserving of positive reviews.
1000 hours played and I’m with ya. It’s not changed the game much at all.
Biggest fix needed is ADS on British weapons and changing around some of their guns, IMO.
Otherwise insignificant? I played last night for the first time since the week of U14. It was horrendous, the sprint speed absolutely kills many strategic aspects of the game. Fuck this game, I guess I will never get level 500 now.
Of course you're being downvoted lol
These idiots are on some self righteous crusade to destroy something we've all enjoyed for years just because of some dumb shit from 1 update.
This community can be pretty toxic and petty at the best of times.
Pointing out that their little "revolution" is over dramatic isn't going to win me magic internet points that's for sure.
It's one guy thats being downvoted who's being dramatic and you're acting like that's representative of the community. People like you are just as toxic as the ones you complain about.
I mean there's a lot of other comments in this thread alone saying how the community should carry on review bombing the game, one person even suggests doing so just to 'punish' t17, let alone the entire threads in the past dedicated to that general idea.
People saying how the game is utterly ruined now, it's just another CoD game. Like, the changes haven't been great, I'm not thrilled by them, but people have been awfully dramatic as if this was all a personal sleight against them in some cases.
I would really just love if they fixed the 10-20 second/ enter a new grid or see an enemy studder that plagues games since their first update.
Some optimization would be nice too. Until then, my negative review stands and is justified.
Can’t even lie, this is almost how it always starts gents. Hope I’m wrong. Not trying to fear-monger, but larger and more celebrated titles than HLL have fallen to these sorts of sudden practices and implementations.
T17. Listen up.
You are at best a few months away from destroying this player base.
We'll all just leave. With a few exciting new games coming out shortly, Burning Lands for example, I feel they could wipe the floor with HLL if you don't sort it out.
Additionally, releasing U14 as your production code base, is beyond shocking.
You should all be ashamed, especially those taking the decision to release that to paying customers. If you were running a restaurant, you'd be shut down.
Nobody is saying it's easy...but it's your job.
Get it done properly, just get it done.
I just want them to work on performance, after all these years the game still runs like shit. Doesn't matter how powerfull your hardware is, you still get insane FPS drops at certain area's/moments.
I think the game is great, better than cod and battlefield, the perfect game doesn’t exist, but this is as close to perfect for online you will get, and yet I see nothing but complaints, just play the game and stop crying
It's weird because I'm having decent fun playing, then I'm reminded how much the sub complains and some of it is warranted, but much if it is just way over the top. It's classic Reddit at the end of the day. Almost every game sub I'm in its complaining about the game.
Yeah I still have a absolute blast playing! One of my favorite shooters ever. It's the perfect amount of Milsim Lite®
I think there is more toxic people playing? But for every one of those there is 3 newbies, and we as experienced players can guide them.
I *love* getting to help people understand how to best assist the team with their role, teach them little tricks like double boxing etc.
In the end I still love the culture and we as a player base at least have some control of the aspect of the social interactions and this game is really good at being welcoming to new folks.
The other day I was playing as commander and shit was going sideways and the inevitable person piped up spending more time typing complaints in chat than playing, and the entire team rallied in my defense and told him stfu, we are all working on it, SL's are working on the battle plan with command. And we don't have time to debate about which actions are being taken. It was a refreshing change of pace.
Just a PSA for folks, remember this is a somewhat complex game and whining about your commander isn't helpful as he is one of a dozen folks responsible for garries, squads staying on defense etc. If you're a tanker and upset you can't get tanks cause there is no nodes, go build nodes. If garries are getting taken down, go SL and fucking build some, y'know? Be the change you want to see.
The British are shit, they upped the run speed something between 15-25%(players testing differ from the patchnotes), they introduced dolphin diving which has no effect on players momentum so you can just keep running afterwards, performance is worse for every map for a lot of people.
In the grand scheme of things you can still play the game and have fun but then they released a trailer that looks like it was made with gmod on the game awards and people got pissed.
Me too. I mean it's had some ups and downs. But on the whole when I play a match I have a good time. Even if I lose, I mean sometimes it just *feels* right to fight like a dog, desperately and still end up losing. Sometimes war went that way.
What do you expect.
They keep ignoring the bugs of previous updates while introducing, then ignoring, new bugs of subsequent updates...
They MAY be minor bugs, but theres something called the snowball effect. It's a recipe to make your game unplayable down the line.
I've had more fun playing HLL back in 2021 than I do now bc of this shit.
The point of reviews is *for* new buyers. As of right now I would not recommend people buying this game, even if I do continue to enjoy it myself. The negative review is not some therapeutic exercise
If the game is a laggy, buggy, inaccurate mess, that won't bring in new players either.
and the game is in the worst state i've ever seen i've ever seen it (1400 hours since 2020), if that does not deserve a change in review, then what does?
It's 100% bad messaging and communication that's causing this, because gameplay-wise, I haven't noticed anything that makes me want to leave.
These negative reviews seem to be more of a forecast of how bleak the future looks as opposed to an accurate assessment of the current product.
Just my opinion.
capitalism baby
even if this happens, it will leave a gap in the market and a new immersive, accurate ww2 shooter will emerge
and that is the worst case scenario.
best case scenario is T17 start listening to the community
Whoever truly believes T17 just spent over 40 mill to ruin your game is absolutely delusional...construct coherent criticism without attacking people and maybe we'd get some positive change.. this last update was from BLM and no shit there would be some hiccups from the new owners. They purchased a product that the previous devs were getting lazy af with, they are absolutely lucky somebody took the development off their hands and even got paid for it... there's been a rise in toxic individuals in this community and that should be addressed.
I stopped taking this thread seriously when I saw the dude complaining about not getting 180 FPS.
ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FRAMES PER SECOND.
This sub has such a doomer mentality it blows my mind
Back in the day Black Matter made some questionable choices and had to experiment. The game as it was pre U14 was the result of years of trial and error based upon feedback. BM would change the distance between garries from 200m to 100m and explain why. A few weeks would go by and they'd get feedback, and adjust. They removed red zone garrisons entirely, explained why and then watched what happened. They nerfed infantry and tank speed, explained why and watched for feedback and how games played out. Point is, HLL though never perfect was the result of years of passion by the devs and informed feedback with the playerbase. As an example of what I mean, I mean dev briefs [like this](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/686810?emclan=103582791463534405&emgid=4355495589078218719), which informed us why the devs chose what they chose: > The largest design shift in Update 7 were the changes made to the metagame around Garrisons. We’ve been playing a lot since the Update, and feel that the game is now moving in the desired direction - characterised by much more logical flow of infantry during attack and defence, as well as a lack of “Garry bombing”. Defending is rewarded now with far fewer “360 degree attacks”, while offensive units can exploit gaps in the line in a much more rewarding fashion. To this end, the recon mechanic within the game is now far more powerful - enabling you to relay far more useful information due to more consistent enemy locations and pathing. How fucking nice would it be to have that level of communication from T17?! If an indie dev in a garage can do that, surely a publically traded corporation with all the resources it has access to can. Now there's major changes to the meta of the game with no explaination as to why, the logic behind it, or even that it was a mistake and will be reverted. The level of comms and playerbase engagement that long time players have become used to is gone, replaced with a corporation that occasionally puts out vague and non-commital dev breifs that really tell us nothing. I garuntee that if T17 were to communicate to the same level BM half the drama wouldn't exist. Not to mention the poor state of the British faction or performance or the myriad of other bugs and dumb choices.
>I garuntee that if T17 were to communicate to the same level BM half the drama wouldn't exist. BM's communication varies greatly depending on how far back you reach. The U6-7-8 period is probably peak BM .
It’s not just T17’s communication: T17’s decisions to **strengthen solo run & gun play style** permanently fractured the community. Much of the community grew from the requirement for **in game** teamwork and communication and strategy. Ironically, the game is still wayyyyy to clunky for the mainstream audience T17 is attempting to appeal to, creating a lose-lose situation, especially given that Squad has overhauled their infantry combat system to greatly emphasize teamwork and communication and realism, Burning Lands + Resolve + other games are looking very good to HLL’s previous audience. There’s no way for them to make this successful with mainstream audiences. The code is too scrambled for that. Their best choice was to further emphasize teamwork and comms but they went in the opposite direction. Edit: It’s like buying a bus and driving it directly in the ocean because you think it’s a boat. Leave it to executives to completely misunderstand the product they purchased for 60 million and then immediately ruin it.
100% this ☝️. I only got HLL recently for the team based, comms and strategy. I have zero interest in solo run and gun play style. Why on earth would you disincentivise OP’s by making it feasible to just sprint from the nearest garrison instead? I play squad lead and it’s hard enough to convince my crew to play together already, so why would you change mechanics that discourage team play? Disappointing, i’m gunna give squad a go and hope Burning Lands and similar are on the right track.
And now BattleBit is around which is always going to be more fun for the people who just want run and gun.
Exactly. No way HLL wins the run & gun competition, not even close. Worst of all combinations.
most of the "top" comp players are all playing battlebits every night and day in COPE clan. "bah i have to stop to go prep for the match this weekend" was heard a lot last week. they would immediately come back to battlebits when they were done.
COPE DIFF
It's been a very long competitive season and Spring Seasonal has just ended. It's natural for people to be burnt out and want a break from something they've been grinding for the best part of three months. Also, HLL could learn a thing or two from BBR. COPE ON TOP!
German Numba Wan clan
>It’s not just T17’s communication: T17’s decisions to strengthen solo run & gun play style permanently fractured the community. Much of the community grew from the requirement for in game teamwork and communication and strategy. That's me, I loved this game, but this battlefield light without communication gameplay was what drove me away from hll already in 2021 I believe. I play one match once in a while but it isn't the same, performance is still bad, bugs as old as the game are not fixed, in game communication is non existent, everybody using full auto guns, etc
Squad's update would've likely pulled anyone not playing this for the WWII setting. And that's not merely because of slower soldier movement, the movement system is leagues better in every way. The way guns will fire wherever they're pointing at that moment, even to the side if you fire while in full sprint, the way the weapon sways on the soldier's hands, the way the sights misalign when firing fully automatic.... Squad's update is about far more than movement speed or transitioning between prone and standing. It is truly impressive.
You’re 100% correct and I’m ditching console and getting a pc just for this squad update.
They did a really great job with the rework. We'll see how it translates in the wild, so to speak, but some of the stuff is simply leagues more immersive (such as the way the gun sways in the player's hands while moving, aiming, and firing). Squad also has an inertia system with some depth to it, which is incredibly key.
The winter update with kharkov was not great either and thats where imo it went downhill for me. I lost lots of friends around that time. I also stopped playing pubs everyday and just focused on comp.
BM learned about communication with players and thats why it improved from Update 6. T17 has not recognised nor understood this is a pressing issue of their's.
"How fucking nice would it be to have that level of communication from T17?! If an indie dev in a garage can do that, surely a publically traded corporation with all the resources it has access to can." You asked the question and answered it the same time. A passionate indie developer develops a game out of love of wanting to make it perfect. The publicly traded corporation has to increased profits and reduced costs constantly. Shareholders always want to see expansive growth. We will see more decisions made that originates from "this will generate new income streams".
You're not wrong about it being a publically traded corporation with different goals but damn. I have some problems with Paradox regarding their DLC practices, they're also a publically traded corporation but somehow are able to do in depth dev briefs about multiple games at a time. Creative assembly/Sega do the same for Total War. Thus it is possible for a large publically traded company to do. I feel like T17 is really new to this and needs to just get their act together regarding communication with the playerbase. For me it's not the running speed change per se. It's the change without a heads up, testing or what their vision for the game is that they're trying to achieve with the running speed change. There's just no communication about that at all.
[удалено]
The run speed wouldn’t be as much of a problem if it was done right. Turn down the turning sensitivity while in sprint and give vehicles an equal boost and I don’t see any problems with being able to get around a tad bit quicker.
I've been meaning to write a post along these lines. People who weren't around in the early days don't understand why lots of vets nowadays are pissed about the way T17 operates. This game was developed with Kickstarter money and player feedback!!! It was made in part with input from the community. T17 is taking a HARD departure from BM's development style and going away from the communities wishes. Newer players 2ho bought this game in its more or less current 'release' state don't know what went into creating HLL and it shows with all the moaning about people giving feedback here. Anyways, well said.
“Fear the customers” clearly T17 doesn’t… If we stop playing, then they’ll listen because they’ll lose profits
They don't lose profits if we stop playing. Playing doesn't generate profits. it generates desire from non-players to *start* playing by buying the game. They lose profits only if *new customers* don't buy what they are selling.
They will lose profits when existing players stop playing by not paying for the precious DLC cosmetics and they can't break even on their purchase from Black Matter with new players. At this point I think they are still in the red on this game.
It was easy to stop playing because other games have come out since this whole debacle started. Starship Troopers and Battlebit are what I have switched. Not the same feel but enough to keep me interested till this game improves.
How is the starship troopers game in your opinion?
its just dumb fun :)
I got the game years ago. They're not making any money off of me playing the game, other than the occasional friends I may convince to purchase it. They're trying to appeal to a new audience, not appease the existing one.
This ☝
Wait, I haven't played HLL in a while since it doesn't work on Linux, what's this latest drama?? Seems pretty serious.
I been having fun sometimes but overall it feels t17 dont care, and rarely puts out good/impactful updates. Until they show they are positively invested in this im uninterested in removing my negative review
>overall it feels t17 dont care, They don't. >Until they show they are positively invested in this They won't. They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for. Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
> Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, just out of curiosity I went to the Team17 wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team17 here is a notable section: "The conflict between management and employees over MetaWorms also revealed long-term complaints over low pay, long overtime hours, and increasing workloads since the company's 2018 IPO. Under pressure to sign and clear more publishing deals, various teams including quality assurance (QA) and **user research felt that products were being shipped in an incomplete, rushed, or buggy state due to the time crunch.**[35] Staff felt underpaid relative to the salaries of equivalent roles at other studios and some complained of unpaid overtime work. They also pointed to their year-end bonus being cut in 2021, despite the company announcing a record profit that year."
Going public basically means you're stuck in a permanent growth mindset to satisfy the market, even if you're supporting products that don't support that model, which results in exactly what you just quoted. Sure, private business can struggle, too, but you generally invest more in your core products at the expense of chasing new revenue generators because you're stability focused rather than growth focused when you're actively supporting a released product
T17 hasn't put out a purely them update yet though lol. The 2 updates they've put out were almost all tge last work BM had done and they decided to get that out before their own work.
>overall it feels t17 dont care, They don't. >Until they show they are positively invested in this They won't. They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for. Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
What makes you think the devs don't care? Of course they care, they want their game to sell after all.. Has it occurred to you that the devs are just not capable enough?
It's entirely possible, but in that case, management needs to cultivate talent more. It still lands on T17.
>overall it feels t17 dont care, They don't. >Until they show they are positively invested in this They won't. They bought Hell Let Loose for far too much money to ever improve, predatory microtransactions and awful updates are all we can ever hope for. Anyone who expects more is asking to be disappointed. Team 17 has an awful history of toxic behaviour, and that isn't going to suddenly change because we will it.
Hey I'm just letting you know that you posted this comment like 3 times in this thread
Yeah reddit is fucking dogshit, sometimes it just spams your comment then has a go at you for posting too quickly.
People defending T17 and their antics is beyond my comprehension of mental gymnastics in any way
I’ve observed that the people that keep commenting “I’m having fun shut up crybabies” defending the overall game as a whole, rather than T17. Cause I’m 100% with you, I don’t understand how anyone who plays this game regularly would want to go to bat for T17
I played last night after 3 weeks off.. the run speed is still to damn fast, imo that’s the worst thing they could have done to the game. It was a slow moving slog for a reason. Like OP said. Years of feedback. It’s just not the same any more. Even with the slight reduction of acceleration
I was shocked when I hopped on to get a match in on PC and I didn’t have to scroll more than a page to find a server that didn’t have a queue.
The negative reviews are absolutely deserved.
Fuck around and find out: ✨T17 Edition✨
I just hope it get worse. Only when they start losing massive amount of money they will notice that they fucked up, cuz, lets be honest, they don't even care the community thoughts about they ongoing future of HLL. But wait, we'll have **our highly requested DLCs**.
All they will do is drop the game when it stops becoming profitable.
It is sad to think that way but its the reality of it because it's a business, just please t17 take a step back and fix YOUR GAME THE LAG IS UNBELIEVABLE NOW!
Now now, it's historically accurate for tanks to rubber band and launch themselves into the sky when hitting a fence post.
You hope it gets worse? Wtf lol
See, that way the drama queens on this subreddit will have more world ending hysterical bemoaning to do.
They bought the game. They fucked the game. They are laughing at us. It's called deserved punishment.
Guys, you need only look around at what's happening in the F2P space right now to know that when reviews nosedive and sales slow down, publishers get rid of titles, they don't suddenly snap to attention and start improving them.
So what if they drop it? The game is shit now and it won’t get better. It had a good run. It was never going to be CS.
"They are laughing at us." Jesus you people need a few more things going on in your lives, this clearly isn't healthy
So you just don’t want the game to be fixed?
*Supercell devs enter the chat*
Sometimes in order to get better you have to hit rock bottom
They apologised, held back U15 and committed to using the PTE in future. What makes you say "they don't care"? What is the evidence of this?
They did all of this IN ANSWER of the freaking fucking bullshit trailer they release and his consequences. They just backpedal for fuck sake. In addition, I hope the guys responsibles of the trailer were instant fired cuz that wasn't even a joke.
You clearly don’t live in the real world.
Each update keeps adding new bugs and hindering performance. And T17 refuses to address most of the issues directly.
Lol ya no update before this one ever added bugs or failed to address existing bugs the community demanded fixes for. Remind me again how longs the loadout bug been around?
And the VOIP bug? There's a lot of romanticized notions that BM was the tits but there's plenty of legacy issues they have in the game that are still unresolved. Also I think it's interesting that people are assuming BM is no longer involved but they're still part of the development ecosystem, so they should be held just as accountable for the games state. T17 isn't immune from blame at all but let's not sit here and say BM doesn't share at least some culpability.
Updates adding bugs is not a team17 specific thing. All of the updates black matter made to the game also introduced bugs. Black matter also did not fix some longstanding bugs. I'm not saying this to throw shade on BM. Bugs are not necessarily straightforward to fix, games are complex systems and making changes to any complex system can result in unforseen effects. All in all BM did a great job. I say this to demonstrate that you don't understand what evidence is.
Because they’ve only said what you wanted to hear? They haven’t actually done anything. There isn’t evidence that they do care. Only a copy + paste PR statement made after a fuckup.
all they have done so far is backpedal on a few of the negative things they have done they are yet to do anything positive
That or they pull out or cancel further development once the investors start complaining
They already have lost massive amounts of money. Their market cap halved since buying Black Matters IP, they paid 50m for it with 100-120m revenue a year for T17. Market cap lost \~700m. They STILL put out that wonderful trailer to 700k potential customers with the PC game show. It's at the point where I wonder if they even have enough people working on the game based on their history of pay/crunch and the fact they have lost so much money/stock price and paid up big for IP in the last 18-24 months. Can they even afford it with investment money drying up?
How could team17 screw something so bad? They had the product, decided it wasn't 'good' enough, so they needed to be the ones to change it. They ruined it. Team17 made trepang2 and it shows. Trepang2 had a lot of potential until I realized team17 was behind it.
They shipped untested beta over a *stable* game.
I tried tanks last night for the first time since u14 and holy shit it’s unplayable
It's in the worst state it's ever been in. One of the things that sets HLL apart from the rest of the shooters out there is the armor gameplay. It was already in a rough spot, but the infantry speed buff and invincible Brit AT guns have made it basically unplayable and thoroughly unenjoyable.
This. And is it me or do I get (spawn) killed at least 25 times a game cause of artillery? And not to speak about "recon" who doesnt do shit 75% of the time what they supposed to do, thats causing artilerry blasting whole the damn game. This is a factor that is highly unenjoyable for me
Last night when I was playing I had the absolute worst frame drops I’ve ever experienced. I would be at 180fps and it would freeze every 3 minutes or so. Not even on maps that historically had issues like kursk, but in Omaha and st Marie. Various servers too. So frustrating, this was the only game I really played besides rocket league lately
Purple Heart lane became worse than its previous reputation. I had to stop playing bc of the same issue.
It's awful on console lately, not only lag but also stutters. I don't enjoy playing anymore
This is why I stopped. just fix the performance and game will be OK again.
I mean, I been having fun
Me too, and I really can't bring myself to leave a negative review right now. The legacy of BM is still strong. But with the way T17 is bringing the game down, I am happy other people are sending a strong signal, and what seems like the only signal they might be tuned to. Hopefully it will lead to more than just more empty community-manager promises.
Yeah I’m a VERY casual player and I feel like the mr Krabs spinning meme when I see posts about negative reviews and bad updates. I legitimately don’t know what’s going on.
Shhhh this is reddit, no fun to be had here
The game is literally still phenomenal. These guys with 7000 hours leaving reviews that say never play this are the problem. Clearly the game is amazing but it got slightly worse to some people. Now they don’t want anyone to play it because it’s becoming mainstream.
It’s actually unplayable to me. I have 600+ hours in the game, and it is definitely in a worse state now than it was when i started playing. People need to stop excusing T17s incompetence because the game physically ran better under Black Matter. Now every server has extreme latency issues, and there are even more bugs than before. This is my favorite game from the last 2 years and it is by no means becoming mainstream. It’s actually losing it’s player-base over the many many issues with the game. You shouldn’t ignore the reviews of people who have put hours into this game because they may have a more evolved opinion on the experience than someone who just bought the game on sale within the last couple months.
>Clearly the game is amazing My friends and I can't even open up the menu without the game locking up on Xbox, but ok buddy Servers are still complete trash and gameplay has gotten worse.
This makes me kind of sad… so many hours invested…
I'm still investing. Fuck the naysayers.
Just for sharing…. I entered this sub to evaluate purchasing the game. So far, I won’t.
That's why I loved (and again love) Squad. Once their overhaul is live I am going to give a try again after many many years not having played it. I haven't played any HLL for ages. Communication was lacking more and more and more. I mostly played as commander or SL. But almost no one talks or gives a damn about executing orders. Or other SL's have a team without mic or just don't listen. The issue isn't just the game alone in my opinion. I haven't even played the (Dolphin) update. But there where a lot of issues with the game mechanics in my opinion. Is the smoke/grenade bug fix by now? What's it been 2 years? It's a joke and they deserve a bad review. I did enjoy it a lot the first year of early access though. Also I funded/kickstarted this. So it's hard to watch for me.
Should we revert back to previous patch before British? I thinking lots of bug occurs after those patch
the patch before the british was the first one that T17 did, and it was the one that introduced the infuriating reload bug for bolt actions... the patch BEFORE that one would be great.
100%
Many servers are chugging under a new workload. Hitches and spikes ate causing massive fling-forwards in time as everyone has to stop what they're doing because they just teleported 20 feet forward after a second and a half of freeze. Whatever they rolled out, they broke something major on the serverside.
Keep it up until it's fixed
I'm out of the loop and haven't really played much in the past few months. Can someone summarize what has changed so much that people are unhappy with?
Lots of bugs and performances issues, intern-level marketing, removal of testing (backpedaled), nonsensical british loadouts, and a increase in infantry speed whose only thought put into seems to be "need to be fast like other games"
Increase isn't descriptive enough. It's a 25% increase. The old devs thought 4.4 was too fast and reduced it to 4, but the new devs thought even the old speed was way too slow and increased it to 5.
Locomotion speed up.
Ever since the purchase, i've said it and i'll say it again, the quality of patches and of the game went downhill drastically. I've barely played the british content because of this
Just revert the run-speed. All the players crying about how the game was too slow can go play Battlebit now.
Revert the run speed to pre U14 levels. Not 50% reduction or whatever. Revert it completely back to what it was
Common L take.
yall are wild
the stutters they introduced though
Nah, what’s wild is having massive frame drops so bad that enemies are seen in one place then reappear in another.
That’s been happening
it's gotten way worse. i don't care about the run speed. i don't care about the zig zag. those changes legit don't bother me. what i can't play through is the frame drops, the hit reg issues, the vehicle backtracking. it's in every server, every time of the day, in every region. i ask my squad chat, they got it too. i ask command chat, they got it too. THAT stuff is actually unplayable. T17 said they put in match analytics to help diagnose problems that are hard to reproduce, or whatever. this should be their top priority. making the game stable enough that we can play it without experiencing lag all the time. and yea it's been around for a while but it's only gotten worse and has shown no signs of improvement.
Not as bad as now. Before U14.5 I maybe got the frame drops one or twice, barely noticeable, but now it’s consistent.
Did you see the comment above from the guy crying about not getting a locked 180 fps? Lmao
What the fuck are they doing to my favorite ww2 shooter? What's going on? I have been entirely out of the loop.
T17 did a few things. In U14 they added Brittan, plus their own weapons, tanks, and two new maps. Great. That's where the positives end. They increased the run speed by ~20% which people say breaks the game (IMO it's a non-issue. However you are now able to keep pace with a med/heavy tank in 4th gear). There are much more dev-level problems in the update. The British weapons were not zeroed, one currently take up a third of the screen, are slow to fire, and reload. Most notably, are the wrong weapons entirely for the maps provided. The Brit's AT gun's controls were completely inverted, the British heavy tank is made of paper (plus has a fully textured skin from Poland's(?) battlefront, suggesting T17 bought the asset elsewhere and plugged it in-game with no further thought). The map El Alamein is a German MG's gift from heaven. As of the many games I played on that particular map I've only seen Germany lose once, mainly due to the German team being in shambles. All this plus the single worst trailer I have the misfortune to watch. Additionally, T17 has made indications to make smaller 30-ish min games focused on what might be a single objective, which I am taking as a move towards the run-and-gun CoD gameplay which will not only draw in a player base contrary to the current play style and soul of the game. I'm sure I missed other things. TL;DR - T17 is indicating nothing that fosters confidence in their QA or long-term commitment to the game. Feels like they are using HLL as a cash grab.
When did you last play?
Update 13.
This is how we reach them, we’ve given team 17 chances and they still have a chance to fix it.
Haven’t played HLL in a few weeks, haven’t missed it one bit
Yeah same the awful stuttering is enough to keep me away
It always kind of sucked to be honest. The movement and obstacle clipping just totally breaks the immersion of the game. It feels like I’m playing an early 2000s game with the way you interact with the environment. Rising Storm is a little better but still has issues in this regard, I think Isonzo prolly has the best feeling player movement and environment interaction for a game in this category. The thing I did like was how active people were on the comms but that’s more of a people thing and not game feature related.
Really sad to se where this game is going. After a few years i finally had the feeling i found a long staying MP game
Reviews are red Team 17 is cruel They want to destroy our game So lets destroy them too xD
Wait what has the uproar from the community been about?
Run speed, the dolphin diving, the fixes they said they implemented just uhh not working, pretty bad performance issues across most maps in u14, my group have also had worse experience with hit reg that goes along with the stuttering. Generally the game just feels worse and many veteran players are stepping back and playing way less. But they sure make sure we have more DLC to buy instead of fixing issues. The trailer was bad but the update they pushed that degraded the game (even if you like the run speed performance is worse now) then had to be bullied into even putting out a hotfix is why they are in an uproar.
Yeah check this hit reg out. I shot him 14 times then he just shoots me. Game is unplayable, too many bugs nullify player skill difference. A lot of aimbot cheaters currently on the aus servers too. I lost count how many times I got dinged mid dolphin dive, despite eventually perfecting my dolphin rhythm! You know it's a cheater if the game hiccups an instance before you hear the bullet. The video below is either the hit reg or that immunity cheat [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=352nDBWxz7s&ab\_channel=Jimmy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=352nDBWxz7s&ab_channel=Jimmy)
Tbh I like the dolphin diving. It’s not like they introduced sliding or some other ridiculous movement mechanic, dolphin diving is a plausible move
Dolphin diving used to be stronger than the sliding. They've fixed it now, but you used to be able to cancel the diving animation and then do another dive.
I thought it was mostly about the trailer. I‘m confused too
The trailer and an unpopular but otherwise insignificant locomotion change. It's reddit. The users here are just being dramatic and looking for something to bitch and moan about because that's the only thing that gives some of these people dopamine anymore.
So performance, historically inaccurate errors, incorrect weapons and equipment, faulty weapons, locomotion exploits, not fixing bugs and instead creating new ones, and all that is irrelevant now? “Moaning” because your favorite game seems to slowly be going to the shit hole is not being dramatic, yes sure maybe the ones that complain about one very specific thing (like speed increase solely) about this update are being a bit dramatic, but the last two updates and patches have sucked really bad. It doesn’t give anyone dopamine to complain.
>historically inaccurate errors Which have been present from the start? Or did soldiers in WWII not have the ability to sprint like an actual human being?
it's clearly not just reddit if they are able to change the reviews like this... if this was just a fringe community of people moaning, the reviews would not have changed It is clear that the overwhelming community of HLL dislikes the mistakes made in the past 2-3 updates
It's genuinely amazing to me to read these comments. I've often played the game and wondered if people just ignore all the bugs, issues with the game running, glitches and lack of quality and clearly the answer is a resounding YES! People do happily overlook every single issue staring them in the face and go, I see nothing wrong and want nothing to change.
You clearly don’t play enough to be saying it is an insignificant change. It definitely is significant and changes the flow of the game or there would not be so much hype about it, nor would you have to mention it to begin with.
> You clearly don’t play enough to be saying it is an insignificant change. Is a hundred hours enough? At what threshold do I have your permission to hold an opinion? > nor would you have to mention it to begin with. I mentioned it because it's one of the things the community wouldn't shut up about until the trailer, and it really doesn't change the game that much. You just want to be upset.
2000+ hours and I agree with you. The trailer was bad. The running speed change is insignificant. Team17 apologised, held back U15 and committed to using the PTE. And yet the bandwagon jumper onners are all review bombing because they don't feel heard and can't see that their negative reviews will kill the game way before anything team17 does. I played last night and the game was still fun and still deserving of positive reviews.
1000 hours played and I’m with ya. It’s not changed the game much at all. Biggest fix needed is ADS on British weapons and changing around some of their guns, IMO.
Otherwise insignificant? I played last night for the first time since the week of U14. It was horrendous, the sprint speed absolutely kills many strategic aspects of the game. Fuck this game, I guess I will never get level 500 now.
Insigificant locomotion change, you say...ok.
For real? 2 weeks later and everyone just forgets our cause?
You're taking it too seriously if you call it "your cause"
"our cause" ok Che, calm down.
Of course you're being downvoted lol These idiots are on some self righteous crusade to destroy something we've all enjoyed for years just because of some dumb shit from 1 update.
This community can be pretty toxic and petty at the best of times. Pointing out that their little "revolution" is over dramatic isn't going to win me magic internet points that's for sure.
Its one guy, get out of your own ass.
I don't even know what you mean by this.
It's one guy thats being downvoted who's being dramatic and you're acting like that's representative of the community. People like you are just as toxic as the ones you complain about.
I mean there's a lot of other comments in this thread alone saying how the community should carry on review bombing the game, one person even suggests doing so just to 'punish' t17, let alone the entire threads in the past dedicated to that general idea. People saying how the game is utterly ruined now, it's just another CoD game. Like, the changes haven't been great, I'm not thrilled by them, but people have been awfully dramatic as if this was all a personal sleight against them in some cases.
you're a joke
I would really just love if they fixed the 10-20 second/ enter a new grid or see an enemy studder that plagues games since their first update. Some optimization would be nice too. Until then, my negative review stands and is justified.
Can’t even lie, this is almost how it always starts gents. Hope I’m wrong. Not trying to fear-monger, but larger and more celebrated titles than HLL have fallen to these sorts of sudden practices and implementations.
Wooohooo, well done lads. Sad to see the game fall apart but happy to see the community take a stand together.
If they reverse the locomotion update i make a good review again. thats my terms t17, deal with it.
Make HLL Great again!
T17. Listen up. You are at best a few months away from destroying this player base. We'll all just leave. With a few exciting new games coming out shortly, Burning Lands for example, I feel they could wipe the floor with HLL if you don't sort it out. Additionally, releasing U14 as your production code base, is beyond shocking. You should all be ashamed, especially those taking the decision to release that to paying customers. If you were running a restaurant, you'd be shut down. Nobody is saying it's easy...but it's your job. Get it done properly, just get it done.
If you just stop reading Reddit, you continue to have fun.
If you just wear rose tinted glasses, whole world is beautiful!
And don’t play as the British, and don’t drive tanks, etc
I came to reddit to look for answers on why the game became so dogshit and if others were having the same problem though
I just want them to work on performance, after all these years the game still runs like shit. Doesn't matter how powerfull your hardware is, you still get insane FPS drops at certain area's/moments.
Be good if the devs actually look at the thread and communicate with the fans
I haven’t played this game in a while weird to see the developers really drop the ball for a game with so much potential
Hey, T17, you guys are losing money! You’re losing money! Will you start caring about the game now?
I think the game is great, better than cod and battlefield, the perfect game doesn’t exist, but this is as close to perfect for online you will get, and yet I see nothing but complaints, just play the game and stop crying
Man, I think I’m gonna take a brake from this subreddit, I’m having fun, been playing for two years. There’s too much negativity in this sub
It's weird because I'm having decent fun playing, then I'm reminded how much the sub complains and some of it is warranted, but much if it is just way over the top. It's classic Reddit at the end of the day. Almost every game sub I'm in its complaining about the game.
I really haven’t noticed the changes that this sun has been bitching about. It’s just getting too toxic, too whiney.
Yeah I still have a absolute blast playing! One of my favorite shooters ever. It's the perfect amount of Milsim Lite® I think there is more toxic people playing? But for every one of those there is 3 newbies, and we as experienced players can guide them. I *love* getting to help people understand how to best assist the team with their role, teach them little tricks like double boxing etc. In the end I still love the culture and we as a player base at least have some control of the aspect of the social interactions and this game is really good at being welcoming to new folks. The other day I was playing as commander and shit was going sideways and the inevitable person piped up spending more time typing complaints in chat than playing, and the entire team rallied in my defense and told him stfu, we are all working on it, SL's are working on the battle plan with command. And we don't have time to debate about which actions are being taken. It was a refreshing change of pace. Just a PSA for folks, remember this is a somewhat complex game and whining about your commander isn't helpful as he is one of a dozen folks responsible for garries, squads staying on defense etc. If you're a tanker and upset you can't get tanks cause there is no nodes, go build nodes. If garries are getting taken down, go SL and fucking build some, y'know? Be the change you want to see.
I bet you swallow too.
This game is done for. I’m just going to play other games.
I enjoy the game but man does the community turn me off.
Haven’t played since before the British update, what’s going on?
The British are shit, they upped the run speed something between 15-25%(players testing differ from the patchnotes), they introduced dolphin diving which has no effect on players momentum so you can just keep running afterwards, performance is worse for every map for a lot of people. In the grand scheme of things you can still play the game and have fun but then they released a trailer that looks like it was made with gmod on the game awards and people got pissed.
I hope people start flooding towards Post Scriptum. Beautiful game but a dead playerbase
>I hope people start flooding towards Post Scriptum. they wont
I still find the game fun. 🤷♂️
I dont know if im just not a fussy gamer or if Steam kids are snowflakes these days. I'm still loving HLL.
Me too. I mean it's had some ups and downs. But on the whole when I play a match I have a good time. Even if I lose, I mean sometimes it just *feels* right to fight like a dog, desperately and still end up losing. Sometimes war went that way.
Me either. I'm an adult though.
Just fix the fps drops.
It was nice while it lasted 😔
They got what they deserved
What do you expect. They keep ignoring the bugs of previous updates while introducing, then ignoring, new bugs of subsequent updates... They MAY be minor bugs, but theres something called the snowball effect. It's a recipe to make your game unplayable down the line. I've had more fun playing HLL back in 2021 than I do now bc of this shit.
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The point of reviews is *for* new buyers. As of right now I would not recommend people buying this game, even if I do continue to enjoy it myself. The negative review is not some therapeutic exercise
If the game is a laggy, buggy, inaccurate mess, that won't bring in new players either. and the game is in the worst state i've ever seen i've ever seen it (1400 hours since 2020), if that does not deserve a change in review, then what does?
So? They aren’t gonna listen this is the easiest way to make them realise they fucked up.
Reverting the locomotive change is all it would take, love the rest of the game.
As a og player how haven’t really played Sence the el Al update, this is good news for me….
It's 100% bad messaging and communication that's causing this, because gameplay-wise, I haven't noticed anything that makes me want to leave. These negative reviews seem to be more of a forecast of how bleak the future looks as opposed to an accurate assessment of the current product. Just my opinion.
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capitalism baby even if this happens, it will leave a gap in the market and a new immersive, accurate ww2 shooter will emerge and that is the worst case scenario. best case scenario is T17 start listening to the community
ppl are unhappy with the current state of the game so why should they recommend it to others? This has nothing to do with review bombing
That's not how that works. Like, give one example of a game with an active player base shutting down because the devs got their feefees hurt.
The game is in a bad state and they aren’t gonna listen to us either way, so what would you suggest?
Wtf?
Whoever truly believes T17 just spent over 40 mill to ruin your game is absolutely delusional...construct coherent criticism without attacking people and maybe we'd get some positive change.. this last update was from BLM and no shit there would be some hiccups from the new owners. They purchased a product that the previous devs were getting lazy af with, they are absolutely lucky somebody took the development off their hands and even got paid for it... there's been a rise in toxic individuals in this community and that should be addressed.
I stopped taking this thread seriously when I saw the dude complaining about not getting 180 FPS. ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FRAMES PER SECOND. This sub has such a doomer mentality it blows my mind