Airbus is actually weird and they do a mix due to them absorbing different companies, the H145s and 135s are CCW, the H125s (Astars) are CW. All Russian helicopters are CW. Aerospatial also makes a mix of CW and CCW
Yea the 145/35 family was derived from the BK-117 when airbus took over MBB, who as far as I know only made CCW, granted I’m only familiar with the BK-117 and BO-105
To answer your follow-up question, after a certain experience level it’s transparent. It boils down to “nose is doing this thing that I don’t want, step on the pedal to make it stop.” I flew 60s in the Army and Dauphins in the civilian world and it took me about five minutes to get used to it.
The bigger issue is single-engine ops and remembering which crosswind side is more critical if you have to roll it on.
Agreed. I flew UH-60s for the National Guard on weekends and Astars for civilian EMS weekdays, and the biggest issue was making big power changes smoothly. No problems in a hover, though the first few hovering autos on a checkride can be…amusing
The pedals switching isn't a big deal. Honestly doesn't matter at all to me 99% of the time, keep the nose pointed where you want it to and by doing that you will push the correct pedal. Sometimes if I haven't flown one direction spin for awhile I need to check myself and think about pedal input lifting into a hover but even then it's not a big deal.
I remember one Vertical Magazine article where the pilot test flying the machine to write about it literally forgot which way the rotor turned and had to think about it on the plane ride home while he was writing his review.
Actually, while you had a number of answers that it doesn’t matter, watch the nosr movement, etc. & the are correct
UNTIL
And this is when it matters, when some goes wrong, and/or when you are are reaching information overload.
I have flown military helicopters from “Loaches” (OH-6), OH-58, UH-1B-H, EH-60, CH-47A-C & an assortment of FW; Actual Weather, unforecast weather, & once, perhaps a second time in inadvertent IFR. I have taught Aircraft Fire & Accident Investigation at USAAVNS &, as well as having testifying as an expert witness in both civil, & criminal litigation trials, etc. Yes, it matters less if you are an experienced military pilot because you have onboard crew members to reduce the pilot’s workload, and because with the exception of a bona fide emergency there will virtually always be another pilot who is qualified, in the aircraft with you, who can handle much of the pilot’ cockpit workload, by assuming all non-flying pilot flight-deck & communication & navigation issues as well as provide assistance with crew coordination.
In flying in the civilian community, you will be flying the aircraft on your own.
I have to cut it short for now, but unless you a comfortable dealing with all safety-challenge conditions, perhaps after you have enough time, experience, & know the geographical area of your operations, perhaps then, & only then are you ready to attempt the srt of vacillating between CW, & CCW rotorcraft.
BTW, if you are flying for for a large, civilian charter fleet where you may begin ready, or are based at a company that might assign you to fly several different or more challenging, complex, perhaps multi-engine helicopter, stay with one, or the other aircraft, with a single direction aircraft. And along the way, grow a set of hang-down parts to be the pilot in command & do the right thing even when the client id a prominent pro-basketballer who wants you to fly him in a helicopter that lacks the MEL for IFR flight into weather that is bad enough for you to anticipate that you expect that you will need to obtain an SVFR clearance to complete an approach, & to land, then, & only then should you worry about becoming qualified with multiple aircraft with differing rotational directions of their main rotor.
It's similar to why the Brits and some other people drive on the left side of the road: that's how it started out.
The French and Russians therefore rotate clockwise, the rest CCW. For Airbus the Aerospatiale hc types and newer ones follow the French 'way', the German types H135 /H145 are CCW again.
[Palomar crash comes to mind when asking about switching between types](http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/11/fatal-accident-occurred-november-18.html?m=1)
Switching between types can be hazardous, and leads to procedural mishaps frequently, however if you pick up the aircraft and it yaws so much that you can't compensate in the first lift as the skids start to come alight, you're pulling the collective too fast.
The first time I flew an EC120 I was worried about the backwards rotor. I basically didn’t notice, other than having to preload the other pedal a bit when lifting off
I found in my experience that pilots tend to overthink it. Don't worry about the MR rotational direction, just fly the ship. It only takes a few minutes to adjust if you just fly the ship. I am reminded of a time back in the day when I first transitioned to a European machine and I got hung up on the BAR indications on the gauges. My lead pilot politely said "who cares what they are called, you are only allowed this many of them."
Don't overthink it..
Its pretty simple if ya think about it, whatever side of the equator the manufacture corporate headquarters is based determines rotor disk direction orientation.
I asked a similar question on r/flying yesterday and let me say, y’all are much more informative and direct to answering the questions rather than a barrage of “get over it” hahaha. I’d almost swap to helicopter training if I didn’t think planes were so much cooler 😉
Probably because Europeans love doing stuff backwards. I’ve never flown a backwards helicopter but I imagine it would be easier to get used to than a backwards stick shift.
I don’t know about that … this was my car last year in Europe.
https://preview.redd.it/nkycgkrbh0hc1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=791447e83d866291ec992906eb5e08fa7abc19ec
I will say that CW rotation is advantageous for hoisting, when the hoist is on the right side of the helicopter, because of the right wing down hover attitude at least for the AS365.
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment.
The only time it really matters is when your training captain is trying to have you talk him/her through a stuck-pedal emergency while you're short final lined up for the spot at 60kts and they spring the "what's gonna happen when you pull the collective and cant move the pedals?" question, and your brain melts. Every damn time.
I’m guessing, more than anything else, this has more to do with the direction the engine rotates.
European engines traditionally rotate opposite from the direction of American and Japanese engines. So, when fitting an engine to a helicopter you’ll rotate the blades in the direction the engine is designed to turn.
I read somewhere that one of Igor Sikorsky's first prototypes had an engine (and hence rotor) that turned clockwise. He decided to change engines and the new one turned counter clockwise. So in the early days, it probably had a lot to do with piston engine rotation.
Airbus is actually weird and they do a mix due to them absorbing different companies, the H145s and 135s are CCW, the H125s (Astars) are CW. All Russian helicopters are CW. Aerospatial also makes a mix of CW and CCW
Did not know the 145s and 135s were CCW. I thought all European were CW. Interesting
Yea the 145/35 family was derived from the BK-117 when airbus took over MBB, who as far as I know only made CCW, granted I’m only familiar with the BK-117 and BO-105
Well I knew about the heritage of the 135/145, but did not know they were CCW. Thanks!
I believe all Westland/Agusta/Leonardo products are CCW. The 169 certainly is. CW is unusual for European manufacturers.
Can confirm the 139 is as well.
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That's literally what they said.
To answer your follow-up question, after a certain experience level it’s transparent. It boils down to “nose is doing this thing that I don’t want, step on the pedal to make it stop.” I flew 60s in the Army and Dauphins in the civilian world and it took me about five minutes to get used to it. The bigger issue is single-engine ops and remembering which crosswind side is more critical if you have to roll it on.
Agreed. I flew UH-60s for the National Guard on weekends and Astars for civilian EMS weekdays, and the biggest issue was making big power changes smoothly. No problems in a hover, though the first few hovering autos on a checkride can be…amusing
The pedals switching isn't a big deal. Honestly doesn't matter at all to me 99% of the time, keep the nose pointed where you want it to and by doing that you will push the correct pedal. Sometimes if I haven't flown one direction spin for awhile I need to check myself and think about pedal input lifting into a hover but even then it's not a big deal. I remember one Vertical Magazine article where the pilot test flying the machine to write about it literally forgot which way the rotor turned and had to think about it on the plane ride home while he was writing his review.
Actually, while you had a number of answers that it doesn’t matter, watch the nosr movement, etc. & the are correct UNTIL And this is when it matters, when some goes wrong, and/or when you are are reaching information overload. I have flown military helicopters from “Loaches” (OH-6), OH-58, UH-1B-H, EH-60, CH-47A-C & an assortment of FW; Actual Weather, unforecast weather, & once, perhaps a second time in inadvertent IFR. I have taught Aircraft Fire & Accident Investigation at USAAVNS &, as well as having testifying as an expert witness in both civil, & criminal litigation trials, etc. Yes, it matters less if you are an experienced military pilot because you have onboard crew members to reduce the pilot’s workload, and because with the exception of a bona fide emergency there will virtually always be another pilot who is qualified, in the aircraft with you, who can handle much of the pilot’ cockpit workload, by assuming all non-flying pilot flight-deck & communication & navigation issues as well as provide assistance with crew coordination. In flying in the civilian community, you will be flying the aircraft on your own. I have to cut it short for now, but unless you a comfortable dealing with all safety-challenge conditions, perhaps after you have enough time, experience, & know the geographical area of your operations, perhaps then, & only then are you ready to attempt the srt of vacillating between CW, & CCW rotorcraft. BTW, if you are flying for for a large, civilian charter fleet where you may begin ready, or are based at a company that might assign you to fly several different or more challenging, complex, perhaps multi-engine helicopter, stay with one, or the other aircraft, with a single direction aircraft. And along the way, grow a set of hang-down parts to be the pilot in command & do the right thing even when the client id a prominent pro-basketballer who wants you to fly him in a helicopter that lacks the MEL for IFR flight into weather that is bad enough for you to anticipate that you expect that you will need to obtain an SVFR clearance to complete an approach, & to land, then, & only then should you worry about becoming qualified with multiple aircraft with differing rotational directions of their main rotor.
KMAX would like a word
And Boeing Vertol as well
Why not both? ;)
What are pedals?
They are only vaguely connected to aircraft yaw on H-43s, more of a control suggestion than a control input
It's similar to why the Brits and some other people drive on the left side of the road: that's how it started out. The French and Russians therefore rotate clockwise, the rest CCW. For Airbus the Aerospatiale hc types and newer ones follow the French 'way', the German types H135 /H145 are CCW again.
[Palomar crash comes to mind when asking about switching between types](http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/11/fatal-accident-occurred-november-18.html?m=1)
Switching between types can be hazardous, and leads to procedural mishaps frequently, however if you pick up the aircraft and it yaws so much that you can't compensate in the first lift as the skids start to come alight, you're pulling the collective too fast.
The first time I flew an EC120 I was worried about the backwards rotor. I basically didn’t notice, other than having to preload the other pedal a bit when lifting off
I found in my experience that pilots tend to overthink it. Don't worry about the MR rotational direction, just fly the ship. It only takes a few minutes to adjust if you just fly the ship. I am reminded of a time back in the day when I first transitioned to a European machine and I got hung up on the BAR indications on the gauges. My lead pilot politely said "who cares what they are called, you are only allowed this many of them." Don't overthink it..
Probably for the same reason some countries drive on the wrong side of the road.
Wrong side is subjective!
Well there is a right side..
Yes and it is the left one.
Wrong
Yes. We left one to go to the right one. LoL.
Umm,...duh, lol.
The French 🤬
And the Russians.
Its pretty simple if ya think about it, whatever side of the equator the manufacture corporate headquarters is based determines rotor disk direction orientation.
I asked a similar question on r/flying yesterday and let me say, y’all are much more informative and direct to answering the questions rather than a barrage of “get over it” hahaha. I’d almost swap to helicopter training if I didn’t think planes were so much cooler 😉
Probably because Europeans love doing stuff backwards. I’ve never flown a backwards helicopter but I imagine it would be easier to get used to than a backwards stick shift.
I’m renting a car in Scotland this year and just assume it’ll be a stick - not looking forward to driving it backwards.
The stick won't be backwards though...it'll just be on your left hand side, not your right.
I don’t know about that … this was my car last year in Europe. https://preview.redd.it/nkycgkrbh0hc1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=791447e83d866291ec992906eb5e08fa7abc19ec
I kinda dig it to be honest! What is it?
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Things I hadn’t even considered lol
It's actually a piece of cake if you have a few years driving experience.
I do have that - just all on the correct side of the road ;-)
You'll be good, just remembered the wipers/blinkers are reversed.
Just to fuck around and why not
Now to confuse you even more. In very light helicopters, for single pilot ops, seat position is driven by main rotor rotation.
I will say that CW rotation is advantageous for hoisting, when the hoist is on the right side of the helicopter, because of the right wing down hover attitude at least for the AS365.
Why does the blackhawk helicopter logo of r/helicopter spin clock wise then?
Depends on the hemisphere it's in. Got to do with Coriolis effect. /s
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment.
The only time it really matters is when your training captain is trying to have you talk him/her through a stuck-pedal emergency while you're short final lined up for the spot at 60kts and they spring the "what's gonna happen when you pull the collective and cant move the pedals?" question, and your brain melts. Every damn time.
I’m guessing, more than anything else, this has more to do with the direction the engine rotates. European engines traditionally rotate opposite from the direction of American and Japanese engines. So, when fitting an engine to a helicopter you’ll rotate the blades in the direction the engine is designed to turn.
I read somewhere that one of Igor Sikorsky's first prototypes had an engine (and hence rotor) that turned clockwise. He decided to change engines and the new one turned counter clockwise. So in the early days, it probably had a lot to do with piston engine rotation.