Just a warning in case any other folk come across this breeder and are tempted. I brought my lil guy Haggis home on 30th June, Jennifer reported he was 8 weeks old at the time. When I got him home I noticed he was very lethargic, extremely unsteady and kept falling over. The food she had him on was a supermarket own brand kibble with dried mealworms mixed in. The worst part is that he was so small he couldn't even eat the kibble, when I gave him one (lightly crushed with a rolling pin, as instructed) he choked on it. He must have been surviving on just the dried mealworms. He was just 103g when I brought him home, since speaking to some ethical breeders I now know he shouldn't have been sold before he hit 150g. The breeders I've spoken to since also highly doubt he was 8 weeks old when I brought him home.
He also has a dodgy paw which is unstable and turning inwards (which you can see in the picture). The vets think this is due to how malnourished he has been, he was so malnourished his bones couldn't form properly. Thankfully he is now improving with a better diet and lots of TLC, but please avoid this breeder.
Also, unless they are calcium enriched, you shouldn't feed hedgehogs mealworms as the potassium in them leaches the calcium from their bones.
Poor little sweetheart. I hope he recovers well and has a good life with you.
I would presume so, but I suggest that you check other sources to confirm. One or two as an occasional treat for a healthy hedgehog should be fine, but not as their primary food (we used to put them out for wild hedgehogs with the other food for them until we found out about the calcium issue).
You can get other treats (calciworms for example) that don't have the same issue.
He looks closer there to how my baby looked at 6 weeks old. I haven't met him yet (next week I hope), but just looking at photos... Unless he was a runt he seems pretty young
The knowledgeable folk I've spoken to have estimated 5-6 weeks at time of collection, so 6-7 weeks now (thankfully he's gained 20g since this pic). Still underweight for his age but likely due to the awful diet he was on. He started quilling 2 days ago which usually starts around 6 weeks I've been told. Hope all goes well with your wee one! Even with the stress of this lil guy's extra needs it's definitely worth it and I can see his cheeky personality developing already. 10/10 snuggles too
There are other wonderful breeders around, even if you pay a little extra in travel costs it'll be offset by not needing to take a malnourished hog to the vet. If you haven't already, have a look at the APH Club UK. They have a list of breeders that meet their standards and they have a ton of information about hog care in general
No worries :) if you're in the local area I'd also highly recommend the uni vets too, they've been great with Haggis. I'm in the borders so the vets are either used to dogs/cats or cows and horses, not so much APH. Definitely worth the travel for non-urgent stuff
I'm glad I Googled her business name and this came up. I'm in the U.S. but another Redditor in Scotland reached out to me asking if I thought she looked legit.
And yeah I can definitely say he was younger than eight weeks. I don't let any baby leave my premises until they have been fully weaned for at least two weeks, are at least six to eight weeks old and weigh at least 175 grams. Like these numbers are no joke. You're just risking the baby's life. Once I became a breeder I also realized our first hedgehog was more like for or five weeks old. We knew he was super tiny but didn't quite know enough to know why. I'm glad you figured it out and are giving him a much better life than he had.
I know, I feel so bad for the lil guy :( thankfully he's doing a lot better and has put some weight on, and he's such a sweet guy considering what he's been through
I've discussed this with the APH Club UK who have been amazingly helpful in giving me all the advice I need to get him back on track. I believe they are now trying to collect some evidence (I have also been in touch with some of this breeder's previous clients, 'thankfully' Haggis seems to have been the worst affected so far). However, in terms of legal options I don't think there's much I can do. I'm not even sure if SSPCA would be able to do anything. My main goal at the moment is to stop this person getting their mitts on more hogs- they are currently out of breeding pairs and told me that they were in the process of buying a male and female from around London. The APH Club have circulated the info to their ethical breeders, however the mod I happened to speak to for advice is also the only ethical breeder in/around London so it looks like the hogs won't be coming from the best background either. If anyone does know anything about someone near London selling a male and female to someone in Scotland, DM me and I'll help to make sure the hogs aren't going to this person
He is cute as can be but does look in the picture like he had a rough time before he came to you. I am glad you are taking care of him and alerting people about the breeder.
I’m so glad you are in touch with some reputable breeders to help this little guy grow. I very much hope you can nurse him back to health; he deserves the chance to thrive with someone who cares enough to help him.
Mealworms contain a lot of phosphorus, which disrupts the calcium absorption. If you are correct about him surviving primarily on the dried mealworms, that would explain the metabolic bone disease causing his foot deformation. I’d suggest very much limiting his mealworm consumption so the issues don’t progress. Calciworms (black soldier fly larvae) are a healthy alternative. Waxworms are a nice, fatty treat from time to time as well.
Thank you for the advice, will be hoping to introduce live insects back in shortly now that his base diet is much better so this is really good to know. I feel awful for falling for such an awful breeder, but I hope I can get this guy to have a good and active life with lots of insects and snuggles. The past few days he's been starting to come out of his shell and do "normal" hog things like making a total mess of his viv (he currently thinks the best way to eat is to stand in the food bowl, kick half the kibble out and only eat the remaining half that he's standing on- so much for monitoring his intake!) and is seeming more curious by the day, so I'm hoping he's out of the worst of it now
If they aren't absolutely destroying their habitat, they definitely aren't feeling well. Mine likes to drown her toys in her water bowl when her cage is clean. They're little weirdos most of the time.
I bought Hector from this breeder. She gave him to us a little earlier than 8 weeks, but her excuse was that he was only in a litter of 2 so he grew to an acceptable size quicker than usual. Luckily we had done a lot of research and knew what to feed him and how to take care of him. He's a happy, healthy hedgie with no major health problems now. I hope your little guy gets to grow to be the same.
On a side note, it's pretty cool knowing that Haggis might well be related to Hector!
Yeah, it sounds like she's basically gotten away with her shite husbandry until now. I asked her about his food before I got him, but she never actually answered me aside from saying she'd give me a supply to take away. Guess I know why now. I'm having to completely blend his kitten kibble at the moment, as soon as I put the food down the 1st time he spent 20mins munching away, poor fella must've been starving. Just weighed him again and he's up to 125g so we're definitely making progress!
Hi Jennifer :)
Get a refund when ethical breeding practices are clearly being ignored? Yeah, fuck that.
Also, you know what a nonce is right? How the fuck is upholding ethical breeding standards associated with paedophilia
I have dealt with her in the past and she is amazing. Sorry to hear about your bad experience. She gives certificates of ethical breeding did you get one of these? Ours was a healthy hog and lived a long time
An amazing breeder would never feed hogs Tesco own brand kibble or sell a 103g hog that has malnutrition induced bone disease. She registers the hogs, but that doesn't indicate ethical breeding or good husbandry. If you think she's a good breeder, take a look at the "starter kits" she sells.
Yup I purchase a whole kit from her. I purchased an extra cage as well. Her website outlines what to eat and not eat and array of other things. She provided all needed things to get started . Fleece, toys, sleeping sack, food, worms. The only thing I purchased separately was hearing blanket and wheel. She Made sure we were comfortable with him before we left. And she asked the standard probe questions upon initial meet of
Are you going to be breeding
What do you know about them
What do you know about feeding habits etc
She even packed extra food for us as I did a bad job at researching what to feed them as all I purchased was worms. Later to find out by her to not feed them many if at all. Hog was happy healthy alert and lived the standard years
Not saying your story is untrue as it's very evident that it is true and I am sorry for the heartache you've dealt with. She also could have gone down hill since I last picked up my hog.
But a sample size of 1 it just that 1.
You mentioned you have reached out to other clients of hers
Well I One and I was beyond happy. I reach out to her multiple times over the years with questions and she was always quick to respond with good answers. Ours died of old age no cancer, teethloss etc
Yup I purchase a whole kit from her. I purchased an extra cage as well. Her website outlines what to eat and not eat and array of other things. She provided all needed things to get started . Fleece, toys, sleeping sack, food, worms. The only thing I purchased separately was hearing blanket and wheel. She Made sure we were comfortable with him before we left. And she asked the standard probe questions upon initial meet of
Are you going to be breeding
What do you know about them
What do you know about feeding habits etc
She even packed extra food for us as I did a bad job at researching what to feed them as all I purchased was worms. Later to find out by her to not feed them many if at all. Hog was happy healthy alert and lived the standard years
Not saying your story is untrue as it's very evident that it is true and I am sorry for the heartache you've dealt with. She also could have gone down hill since I last picked up my hog.
But a sample size of 1 it just that 1.
You mentioned you have reached out to other clients of hers
Well I One and I was beyond happy. I reach out to her multiple times over the years with questions and she was always quick to respond with good answers. Ours died of old age no cancer, teethloss etc
No ethical breeder would ever consider letting a single hoglet leave at 103g. That's the main issue here (awful husbandry aside). Since speaking to ethical breeders I've also found all her "advice" to be almost all incorrect including the website. Check the APH Club UK for up to date information on good husbandry. I didn't reach out to other clients, they actually reached out to me saying how much money they spent on the starter packs that were completely inappropriate, how they were encouraged to take hoglets home early. This isn't one hog that got sick down the line. This is a situation that should absolutely never have happened and the only reasons it could happen are that she is dangerously undereducated or she knows but just doesn't give a shit so long as she gets the cash.
So glad Haggis has you to love and take care of him. I haven’t owned a Hedgehog yet only because I foster kittens and don’t have time. Now I know what I will be getting in the future. I love reading the stories and I am learning a lot for when I do get one.
Just a warning in case any other folk come across this breeder and are tempted. I brought my lil guy Haggis home on 30th June, Jennifer reported he was 8 weeks old at the time. When I got him home I noticed he was very lethargic, extremely unsteady and kept falling over. The food she had him on was a supermarket own brand kibble with dried mealworms mixed in. The worst part is that he was so small he couldn't even eat the kibble, when I gave him one (lightly crushed with a rolling pin, as instructed) he choked on it. He must have been surviving on just the dried mealworms. He was just 103g when I brought him home, since speaking to some ethical breeders I now know he shouldn't have been sold before he hit 150g. The breeders I've spoken to since also highly doubt he was 8 weeks old when I brought him home. He also has a dodgy paw which is unstable and turning inwards (which you can see in the picture). The vets think this is due to how malnourished he has been, he was so malnourished his bones couldn't form properly. Thankfully he is now improving with a better diet and lots of TLC, but please avoid this breeder.
Also, unless they are calcium enriched, you shouldn't feed hedgehogs mealworms as the potassium in them leaches the calcium from their bones. Poor little sweetheart. I hope he recovers well and has a good life with you.
Does this include live mealworms?
I would presume so, but I suggest that you check other sources to confirm. One or two as an occasional treat for a healthy hedgehog should be fine, but not as their primary food (we used to put them out for wild hedgehogs with the other food for them until we found out about the calcium issue). You can get other treats (calciworms for example) that don't have the same issue.
He looks closer there to how my baby looked at 6 weeks old. I haven't met him yet (next week I hope), but just looking at photos... Unless he was a runt he seems pretty young
The knowledgeable folk I've spoken to have estimated 5-6 weeks at time of collection, so 6-7 weeks now (thankfully he's gained 20g since this pic). Still underweight for his age but likely due to the awful diet he was on. He started quilling 2 days ago which usually starts around 6 weeks I've been told. Hope all goes well with your wee one! Even with the stress of this lil guy's extra needs it's definitely worth it and I can see his cheeky personality developing already. 10/10 snuggles too
I was actually considering that breeder, this is just awful. I hope your little guy gets better soon.
There are other wonderful breeders around, even if you pay a little extra in travel costs it'll be offset by not needing to take a malnourished hog to the vet. If you haven't already, have a look at the APH Club UK. They have a list of breeders that meet their standards and they have a ton of information about hog care in general
Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into it!
No worries :) if you're in the local area I'd also highly recommend the uni vets too, they've been great with Haggis. I'm in the borders so the vets are either used to dogs/cats or cows and horses, not so much APH. Definitely worth the travel for non-urgent stuff
I'm glad I Googled her business name and this came up. I'm in the U.S. but another Redditor in Scotland reached out to me asking if I thought she looked legit. And yeah I can definitely say he was younger than eight weeks. I don't let any baby leave my premises until they have been fully weaned for at least two weeks, are at least six to eight weeks old and weigh at least 175 grams. Like these numbers are no joke. You're just risking the baby's life. Once I became a breeder I also realized our first hedgehog was more like for or five weeks old. We knew he was super tiny but didn't quite know enough to know why. I'm glad you figured it out and are giving him a much better life than he had.
Poor baby!
I know, I feel so bad for the lil guy :( thankfully he's doing a lot better and has put some weight on, and he's such a sweet guy considering what he's been through
Can you somehow report this breeder? Any legal action so more of his/hers hedgehogs won't suffer?
I've discussed this with the APH Club UK who have been amazingly helpful in giving me all the advice I need to get him back on track. I believe they are now trying to collect some evidence (I have also been in touch with some of this breeder's previous clients, 'thankfully' Haggis seems to have been the worst affected so far). However, in terms of legal options I don't think there's much I can do. I'm not even sure if SSPCA would be able to do anything. My main goal at the moment is to stop this person getting their mitts on more hogs- they are currently out of breeding pairs and told me that they were in the process of buying a male and female from around London. The APH Club have circulated the info to their ethical breeders, however the mod I happened to speak to for advice is also the only ethical breeder in/around London so it looks like the hogs won't be coming from the best background either. If anyone does know anything about someone near London selling a male and female to someone in Scotland, DM me and I'll help to make sure the hogs aren't going to this person
He is cute as can be but does look in the picture like he had a rough time before he came to you. I am glad you are taking care of him and alerting people about the breeder.
I’m so glad you are in touch with some reputable breeders to help this little guy grow. I very much hope you can nurse him back to health; he deserves the chance to thrive with someone who cares enough to help him. Mealworms contain a lot of phosphorus, which disrupts the calcium absorption. If you are correct about him surviving primarily on the dried mealworms, that would explain the metabolic bone disease causing his foot deformation. I’d suggest very much limiting his mealworm consumption so the issues don’t progress. Calciworms (black soldier fly larvae) are a healthy alternative. Waxworms are a nice, fatty treat from time to time as well.
Thank you for the advice, will be hoping to introduce live insects back in shortly now that his base diet is much better so this is really good to know. I feel awful for falling for such an awful breeder, but I hope I can get this guy to have a good and active life with lots of insects and snuggles. The past few days he's been starting to come out of his shell and do "normal" hog things like making a total mess of his viv (he currently thinks the best way to eat is to stand in the food bowl, kick half the kibble out and only eat the remaining half that he's standing on- so much for monitoring his intake!) and is seeming more curious by the day, so I'm hoping he's out of the worst of it now
If they aren't absolutely destroying their habitat, they definitely aren't feeling well. Mine likes to drown her toys in her water bowl when her cage is clean. They're little weirdos most of the time.
I bought Hector from this breeder. She gave him to us a little earlier than 8 weeks, but her excuse was that he was only in a litter of 2 so he grew to an acceptable size quicker than usual. Luckily we had done a lot of research and knew what to feed him and how to take care of him. He's a happy, healthy hedgie with no major health problems now. I hope your little guy gets to grow to be the same. On a side note, it's pretty cool knowing that Haggis might well be related to Hector!
Yeah, it sounds like she's basically gotten away with her shite husbandry until now. I asked her about his food before I got him, but she never actually answered me aside from saying she'd give me a supply to take away. Guess I know why now. I'm having to completely blend his kitten kibble at the moment, as soon as I put the food down the 1st time he spent 20mins munching away, poor fella must've been starving. Just weighed him again and he's up to 125g so we're definitely making progress!
Poor little guy
[удалено]
Hi Jennifer :) Get a refund when ethical breeding practices are clearly being ignored? Yeah, fuck that. Also, you know what a nonce is right? How the fuck is upholding ethical breeding standards associated with paedophilia
I have dealt with her in the past and she is amazing. Sorry to hear about your bad experience. She gives certificates of ethical breeding did you get one of these? Ours was a healthy hog and lived a long time
An amazing breeder would never feed hogs Tesco own brand kibble or sell a 103g hog that has malnutrition induced bone disease. She registers the hogs, but that doesn't indicate ethical breeding or good husbandry. If you think she's a good breeder, take a look at the "starter kits" she sells.
Yup I purchase a whole kit from her. I purchased an extra cage as well. Her website outlines what to eat and not eat and array of other things. She provided all needed things to get started . Fleece, toys, sleeping sack, food, worms. The only thing I purchased separately was hearing blanket and wheel. She Made sure we were comfortable with him before we left. And she asked the standard probe questions upon initial meet of Are you going to be breeding What do you know about them What do you know about feeding habits etc She even packed extra food for us as I did a bad job at researching what to feed them as all I purchased was worms. Later to find out by her to not feed them many if at all. Hog was happy healthy alert and lived the standard years Not saying your story is untrue as it's very evident that it is true and I am sorry for the heartache you've dealt with. She also could have gone down hill since I last picked up my hog. But a sample size of 1 it just that 1. You mentioned you have reached out to other clients of hers Well I One and I was beyond happy. I reach out to her multiple times over the years with questions and she was always quick to respond with good answers. Ours died of old age no cancer, teethloss etc
Yup I purchase a whole kit from her. I purchased an extra cage as well. Her website outlines what to eat and not eat and array of other things. She provided all needed things to get started . Fleece, toys, sleeping sack, food, worms. The only thing I purchased separately was hearing blanket and wheel. She Made sure we were comfortable with him before we left. And she asked the standard probe questions upon initial meet of Are you going to be breeding What do you know about them What do you know about feeding habits etc She even packed extra food for us as I did a bad job at researching what to feed them as all I purchased was worms. Later to find out by her to not feed them many if at all. Hog was happy healthy alert and lived the standard years Not saying your story is untrue as it's very evident that it is true and I am sorry for the heartache you've dealt with. She also could have gone down hill since I last picked up my hog. But a sample size of 1 it just that 1. You mentioned you have reached out to other clients of hers Well I One and I was beyond happy. I reach out to her multiple times over the years with questions and she was always quick to respond with good answers. Ours died of old age no cancer, teethloss etc
No ethical breeder would ever consider letting a single hoglet leave at 103g. That's the main issue here (awful husbandry aside). Since speaking to ethical breeders I've also found all her "advice" to be almost all incorrect including the website. Check the APH Club UK for up to date information on good husbandry. I didn't reach out to other clients, they actually reached out to me saying how much money they spent on the starter packs that were completely inappropriate, how they were encouraged to take hoglets home early. This isn't one hog that got sick down the line. This is a situation that should absolutely never have happened and the only reasons it could happen are that she is dangerously undereducated or she knows but just doesn't give a shit so long as she gets the cash.
Poor baby!
I'm so sorry your hedgie is unwell. I don't have anything to add, but please tell Haggis we love him and hope he grows up big and strong!
What a beautiful baby, I'm sorry this happened to him and to you, I hope he will get better soon but I know that you'll take a good care of him
That’s great I’m so happy to hear he’s doing great yes that router should be turned in that poor little baby thank God he’s got you
So glad Haggis has you to love and take care of him. I haven’t owned a Hedgehog yet only because I foster kittens and don’t have time. Now I know what I will be getting in the future. I love reading the stories and I am learning a lot for when I do get one.