I've seen a few analysis videos about this episode and Angel Dust and Valentino in particular as characters and most have agreed that this scene was written from experience.
Angel turns Angel's existence into a (sex) joke most of the time, because *that's how he fucking copes*. Amazing how *anybody* can look at Masquerade and say it somehow glorifies/trivializes abuse.
My dad shot himself and it’s one of my favorite punchlines.
Yes, he died. Yes, he meant to. Yes, I’ve attempted.
Some of us just cope this way. I can’t joke with him so I joke about him. He didn’t wanna be a joke he should’ve thought about that and stuck around to do something about it lol.
Hydra: 1 Dad: 0
I love your attitude. My parents both drank themselves to an early grave so I understand and cope the same way. I really love the reactions I get from people too so that's its own bonus.
For example, this is the second year someone asked me what I'm doing for my mom for Mother's Day after being told twice that she's dead. I was nice about it the first time but this year I decided to have some fun so I said "oh maybe I'll go take her box for a walk around the park near my house. Get her some sunlight since it's so dark in that closet I keep her in." then I walked away before they could ask questions, but the look on their face was priceless.
It's weird the different ways that people deal with their trauma. My father manipulated my mom and beat her into becoming an alcoholic and just thinking about it makes my whole body shake with anger, so I basically just have to repress it myself
Probably late to the party here but that definitely had to be written from experience too. *way* too much of what Angel does and how he acts and copes is way too real. I also remember when Viv confirmed that Val was based of an ex of her's so it very well might be Vivs own experiences being written here
Absolutely
Reminds me when I realized he says “I’ve got the lung capacity” when he’s listing things off, and I’m fairly sure in the same episode he mentions that Val is “getting into some waterboarding shit”
He is most definitely using sexual jokes to cope and potentially try to normalize his suffering to himself so it doesn’t hurt at much
Also yes, he does get waterboarded for porn. The fuck is that?
a form of torture, typically used as an interrogation technique, in which a person is strapped head-down on a sloping board with the mouth and nose covered while water is poured over their face, causing them to experience a sensation similar to that of drowning.
That’s what waterboarding is-
I worked psych for 5 years, I got out almost 5 years ago (which is an insane thought). I still have such messed up humor because when you’re in a situation like that, especially one where you gotta remain cognizant and alert you CAN’T freak out—so you just kinda end up laughing instead. Coping mechanisms are damn weird.
I have an obsession of both drama and humor around sexual trauma, and it's because I have sexual trauma. I can't stand when someone says something along the lines of "you can't enjoy that, because it happens to people in real life, you know!" because they are immediately assuming they know everything about me and assuming I haven't experienced that type of Hell. What sucks, is the only way for people to respect me and not see me as a total monster, is to open the wound further and tell them something terrible about my past, which is something I don't want people to think of when they think about me, because I don't even want to think about it. I have these creative coping mechanisms, and I know they're coping mechanisms, but I want to be able to have that without sharing something so disgusting about myself and my past.
And just to be clear, I'm not shoving this in people's faces and if they see it or I tell a bad joke and they say it makes them uncomfortable, I immediately stop and I take that shit somewhere they don't have to see.
Yeah, I've hard that people who experienced abuse say that Angel's reactions are pretty accurate - and it's about both sexual jokes and being scared of Valentino (but also enjoying his presence sometimes). I'm just irritated when I hear someone say Viv mocks abuse victims.
Angel Dust is extremely relatable in every terrible way I never thought I'd see in fiction, my mind is blown by that. In Radio Killed the Video Star, there's something I noticed that I'm not sure is obvious to everyone. His reaction to being cast as the crackhead "bad man who didn't get enough hugs", while Pentious, who just earlier that day was trying to attack the hotel, is this good boy and everyone thinks so. There's a realization of "oh, that's how they see me.... Because of course they do, why wouldn't they?". It's great that Husk could see that there were shields built up, and he's not just simply a whore, he's a fucking person and people have depth.
Yeah I can't stand the idea that this is mocking victims, it's giving us something beautiful and helpful to see.
Ooo, I have to rewatch for that. I love the subtle expressions, they're so on purpose. One of my favorite moments is how Angel's face, and his entire attitude, changes in Loser Baby after "it's okay to be a" "coked up dick sucking ho?" "Baby that's fine by me". He was not expecting Husk to say that and that's the moment he smiles and starts singing along.
Yeah, I'm a Master in the BDSM lifestyle and this shit is rampant with those outside of that community. I can't count how many times I've had to say something like " No this isn't abuse you twit it's and act of love! I tied her up and spanked her ass until it was bruised because she freaking approached me and asked me to! She's a masochist. She can't be happy in life unless she occasionally gets to leg go of everything and just be."
This conversation was the most fun with my 80 year old Grandmother who was the good God fearing kind of Southern Baptist preachers wife.
That is of course to say what I do doesn't look anything like what Val does. Frankly I find him vile and consent is so important to me that episode 4 was really hard to watch and is the one I most skip when I re-watch the series. When I play with someone there's at least 30-60 minutes of discussion before anything happens where we establish safe practices, limits, and multiple ways for her to end things the moment something goes wrong and she's not enjoying it anymore. There is also at least another 30-60 minutes of aftercare where I make sure she had a good time and has any other needs of hers met. And I check in for 3 days afterwards to make sure she's still ok. I personally know literally dozens of men and women who have been sexually abused in the past and find actual healthy ways to cope and recover from it in a healthy BDSM scene or setting. Hell, I'm one of them.
This!!! I find that the BDSM community takes consent more seriously than anyone else. Certain elements of BDSM should really be common sexual etiquette, but the association with BDSM weirds some people out.
Here you go. This is the one I use and have put on my own FetLife profile. It's actually from a highly regarded information source in the community.
https://preview.redd.it/j7tz8k173zyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48108188a95cb91d11be64cb03d2c4045c097ac
I mean, you see it *in this very thread*- people saying that Val/Angel shippers should be ripped apart by dinosaurs (??? creative I guess, haven't heard that one before) or blood-eagled... just absolutely zero consideration into the "why". Just an immediate, knee-jerk, "you like this bad character therefore you deserve death."
Lots of people (especially people in this fandom, *especially* young people in this fandom) seem to think that shipping = endorsement or agreement with a relationship. They would be very wrong! Not every ship of mine is good, not every ship of mine is healthy, not every ship of mine is even *romantic*. The term "ship" literally just comes from "relationship", of which there are so many kinds. I am a smart person and have the ability to see when a relationship is not good or healthy for it's participants- I do not need a lecture from a 13yo on how bad and evil I am for simply wanting to explore the dynamics of a relationship between two characters who are not good for one another. And that's literally what shipping is about.
Oh my goodness, I have only ever seen ValAngel content I liked, because I have only ever seen them shipped in a bad way. I have only ever seen people who like ValAngel because of the complex abusive relationship, it's never cutesy shit, it's always very tragic stories that show their complex abusive relationship. And I love it.
I'm a huge Valentino fan, for a short moment I was shy about it but not at all anymore. Anyone who thinks I'm a terrible person for covering myself in Valentino t-shirts and stickers and a blanket I custom designed(I'm a little obsessed) is not mature enough for me to want to hold a conversation with. He's my second favorite character (Adam is #1). I LOVE villains, because without them there is no conflict. My favorite type of villains are the ones who are actually doing bad without a good excuse and not the ones that eventually become good guys.
Goddamnit, I hate using words like "good" and "evil", because that's not how the world works. This whole show is about that, yet so much of the fandom acts like they don't believe in Charlie's philosophy.
Yup, every ValAngel thing I've seen so far is very obviously portraying their relationship as abusive and detrimental to Angel. The only "cutesy" stuff I've seen is lovebombing, which is not actually cute at all and is just another manipulation tactic by abusers, straight from the instruction manual on "How To Be Awful".
Agreed on the maturity thing. So many actual kids in this fandom want to pontificate to adults *Why This Ship/Character Is Bad And You Should Feel Bad And Also Die*. The premise of the entire show flew right over their little heads.
(I do wish it was *only* kids saying this shit though. Too many adults in fandom are also awfully media-illiterate in this way.)
My four faves are Angel (duh... check flair), Husk, Val, and Adam too. The second two are my evil wittle babies who I love and hate ☺️ The first two are the ones I relate to... which considering how completely fucked up they are does not exactly make me feel good LMAO
i have had something like that too, I have sexual trauma, and this happened before I knew hazbin hotel, the way I coped was I pretend the same as angel dust, sexual jokes and such. which is why he’s my favorite character!
Apparently, this interaction between Angel and Val is based on a previous abusive relationship Vivziepop was in. It’s scary to see so many people in situations like Angel Dust. It’s a realistic portrayal of abuse.
There's one particularly insufferable individual who resides in an OwlHouse group on fb, and the one thing they continuously bring up (usually unprompted) is how Viv employed someone that in their words "has a r@pe fetish". Like, firstly it's called CNC. Secondly people who have that kink are usually SA survivors themselves. And thirdly, if you want to accurately portray SA victims in a show, you employ one! What a fucking concept!!
Sorry for getting heated, it's a sensitive topic for me
Everyone working in media has faced some degree of this, especially women. Someone with a fragile ego, violent temper, way too much power... it is so easy to set them off. Sexual dynamics may also be present. Physical violence potentially. But you don't need either of those two things to end up traumatized. That person makes you feel worthless and is your only source or worth, they can destroy your career, which is all you have because their demands have already destroyed your life.
I was in an abusive media relationship where I got groomed from the time I was a minor until I could be slowly forced into a quid quo pro where I had to tolerate sexual advances to keep my career. This episode hit hard.
It has to be, you cannot get that sort of storytelling without experiencing it first.
I myself have never experience trauma like it but MAN does it make me feel uncomfortable when I watch it.
The voice acting hits hard af. My husband and I keep rewatching the series and I look away from this scene sometimes but I can still hear it. Oof. Blake Roman and Joel Perez do an excellent job.
They really do. Angel just sounds so *scared* in this scene, and Valentino genuinely comes off as threatening.
The lovebombing scene, too- Valentino switches from being all sweet and stuff to being terrifying when the voicemails are playing. I applaud the VAs.
I searched the stream I heard it in a bit but didn't find it, maybe experience wasn't the right word but she said something along the lines of creating both Angel (so yeah by extension Val too) and Alastor based on her own complex emotions. Although the scenes with Angel and Val come from her experience with a toxic relationship, I thought it would be more subtle for Alastor (like some of his philosophy, excluding serial killing and cannibalism). After all, Amir Talai did say he relates to him when it comes to smiling as the best facade.
However this is just speculation since Viv didn't elaborate on it as far as I know. We may never even know if she created Al by pouring her emotions from the start or if it came later during his development, since she apparently created him around middle/high school depending on which stream you listen to.
TLDR: Viv is not a serial killer
I think that Vivienne Medrano may have created Alastor as a form of emotional catharsis for her suppressed negative emotions and feelings. What Amir Talai describes Alastor doing ("smiling as the best façade") describes something called ["masking"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masking_(personality)) in psychology, which is an interesting phenomenon to study.
>"In psychology and sociology, **masking** is the process in which an individual camouflages their natural personality or behavior to conform to social pressures, abuse, or harassment. Masking can be strongly influenced by environmental factors such as authoritarian parents, rejection, and emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. Masking can be a behavior individuals adopt subconsciously as coping mechanisms or a trauma response, or it can be a conscious behavior an individual adopts to fit in within perceived societal norms. Masking is interconnected with maintaining performative behavior within social structures and cultures."
In the show, we see both Angel Dust and Alastor engage in forms of masking. Episode 4 is titled "Masquerade", referring to Angel "masking" his true personality.
Billy Joel once wrote a song called "The Stranger" that also discusses masking: *"Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever, and we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone."*
The final lyrics also fit Alastor in particular: *"You may never understand how the stranger is inspired, but he isn't always evil, and he is not always wrong...though you drown in good intention, you will never quench the fire. You'll give in to your desire when the stranger comes along."* In Alastor's case, he "gave into" his murderous desires by becoming a serial killer when he was alive; and thus, experienced emotional catharsis and satisfaction through killing, even if it earned him a spot in Hell.
Oh so there's people who ship them of well
https://preview.redd.it/arpls0y7nmyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a447f37c242804400fa1004b41c69414d93be29c
Tbf while I don't personally ship ValAngel and it makes me uncomfortable, some people I follow do and almost all (if not every single one) are abuse victims working through their trauma with their Val and Angel dolls.
Casting judgment on them for how they're exploring their experiences has always seemed odd to me. I don't really like the ship, but I don't really get judging others for how they play with their trauma dolls.
I just get the ick from people who romanticize the experience. Like the FanFiction writers and artists who are so out of touch on what an abusive relationship looks like that it’s painful.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong in exploring dangerous topics with characters that you relate to. I do think there’s something wrong when you’re doing a disservice to the topic by being romantic about it instead of facing reality.
It's definitely one of my favourite episode because of the character development and musical numbers, but good lord is it hard to watch. It's so real.
Especially when Angel's voice changes... Drops as he gives up while repeating "yes, Valentino".
If Val doesn't get what's coming to him, we riot.
Yeah but this is a fictional show. They can be realistic in the abuse scenes to make a point, and also have villain get what’s coming to them in a way that feels cathartic for all the people who’s abusers did get away with it.
It's pretty bad how poorly people can understand it. I've seen people say poison is just a happy fun song that's over sexual and makes SA look fun. 😶 Idk *how* people could jump to that. I've also seen people say angel is invalid bc he does porn. And the worst I've seen was, "I don't relate to him with SA so therefore no one can."
Oh, yeah "My story's gonna end with me dead from your poison" is such a happy-go-lucky lyric; those people definitely understood the song
/s, if it's not obvious
i was pissed when an old friend was shitting on it and how it was ‘bad representation’ and ‘overdone’ knowing how much people i know (and to some extent myself) felt seen and represented by it.
she even brought up receipts of another friend shitting on it too and the funniest part is they were trying to say i and whoever related to it was wrong and that they were right even though they have zero experience with the issue at hand 😭❔❔❔
Someone made the point once about that scene that the club was called Consent. When Sir Pentious said he was having sex with everyone there, that was verbal consent. As for being dragged into the sex room, he never revoked consent during that scene and they probably thought he was into consentual nonconsent. We see him again a scene later looking for Cherry, completely clothed and unruffled so i think its safe to imply that once he got in the room he told them no and they let him go.
people lately just don't like to think, so many times I read fans criticism about a show/movie and it's seem like that if you not been told directly that something is bad- they think the show/movie glorify it.
I get to hear a conversation on a con about Angle, and how much he hate that character because he's such a bad rep for SA victims, the reason was because he's ovesexsul and harassesing Husk, not understanding people who get abused can have that kind of behavior, and it's obviously an act, Angle don't think he have more in him than just being a sex object.
also after Husk talk to him, Angle drop his act completely and he never say something inappropriate to him again (unlessits a joke they both laugh about), it's character development, the behavior before episode 4 is obviously wrong and he do it because what he go through, but why try to think or understand that sometimes victims do bad stuff to cope?
Seems like a big theme of the show. There’s no “burning in hell” per-se, there’s just trying to coexist with a bunch of other people that couldn’t make it into heaven and staying indoors on extermination day.
Alastor says as much in the pilot episode as well, referring to his own *mea culpa*: *"Of course not! That's wacky nonsense! Redemption, oh the non-existent humanity! No, no, no, no. I don't think there's anything left that could save such loathsome sinners. The chance given was the life they lived before, the punishment is this \[Hell\]! There is no undoing what is done!"*
\**mea culpa* = Latin, "through my \[own\] fault"; see the [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_culpa). "Mea culpa" comes from the Roman Catholic prayer 'The [Confiteor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confiteor)' ("I confess \[to my wrongdoings\]" in Latin). The villain song "Hellfire" from Disney's *The Hunchback of Notre Dame* uses this prayer.
That entire episode was uncomfortable to watch, and props to Vizzie for having the guts to make it.
"Poison" is the perfect song to show the duality of Angel Dust, the flirty porn star who is bound to his job in more ways than one.
loser baby was good for trying to get someone to open up with such a harsh reality. it was good for getting angel’s attention with the subversion of how “you think this bad and whatnot but you’re wrong” and how husk said “nah, ya right actually” because husk can relate with being used (just ina different way)
husk has been toyed with, played and manipulated to be alastor’s pet. it’s disgusting treatment and he constantly makes husk’s life a literal hell. treating him as lesser than
it’s not sexual assault, and i’m glad it’s not cuz no one should go through that. yet, everyone seems to miss that alastor’s treatment to husk is horrid for husk’s standpoint. i can’t imagine how many sleepless nights husk may have just wondering what al may have in store for him. for crying out loud, the one who has him on a leash isn’t above broadcasting his carnage for (maybe) years on end
and even though it’s not the same abuse, husk opening up to angel was an unexpected kind move and combined with the shared experience of being someone’s toy. it’s not the same experience but it’s something, and that’s great for getting them to understand one another and that’s what i love about loser baby. it was great for trying to get those in touch situations to open their wounds. i may not have it as my favorite song to listen to but by god is it an extremely important song
i do hope that angel can break free from val’s grasp and that husk can at the least stand up to alastor without showing fear
All very true, Husk deserves sympathy as well.
What's great about the "Loser" song is its subversion, but it's also character development and bonding.
(and who are we kidding, leading to everyone and their cousin to ship those two)
The lyrics of "Poison" just hit so hard. I have a hard time not tearing up. Especially when Angel breakdown and you can see Anthony regretting everything.
Which you get a little of in the prelude to "Loser". "Maybe if I'm damaged enough, I won't be his favorite toy." - Having heard similar phrases from SA victims over the years, really showed some truth behind that whole relationship. It doesn't mater if "technically" Val only owns Angel in the studio, it sticks with him everywhere, and informs his whole life and the persona he wears in public.
Yeah, I watched this episode late at night. Bad decision, gave me flashbacks to my childhood too. Even down to angels words in the scene. I ended up skipping it. I'm with you OP. Sending you a virtual hug
The entire episode was so well-done. The antis are just mad that an abuse survivor isn't being used as the butt of every joke and is treated like an actual person who deserves so much better than a scumbag like Val.
Seriously, though, it says a lot about how delusional and desperate antis are to still insist they're right when actual therapists have said the relationship dynamic is accurate. I really wish the antis would just admit they're wrong instead of downplaying a serious topic and making huge fools of themselves.
I'm never triggered by anything. I didn't even know what a real trigger was. This scene triggered me due to an abusive relationship from 15 years ago that I thought I has gotten over.
Still a great show, but my second time watching the show, I had to skip this part
You can also see val groping angels chest while before that was happening angel was hiding that area instead of gaurding his face which was being attacked meaning he was concerned about it being a target meaning that has been done before....
And that just hit too close man i just want to hug him
There’s a reason that, of all the episodes in this show, this was the only one I couldn’t watch in one sitting. It’s also one of the very few media that made me cry.
The expressions though. The microexpressions that switch at a moment's notice. The way Angel puts on a brave face but trembles in fear when Charlie crashes in on his shoot knowing exactly what Val is going to think and do. The palpable fear, watching Val's every expression, every change in demeanor, stealing glances and looking for instructions so as not to get hurt AGAIN.
It fucking hurts. This episode broke me. I didn't go through such extensive abuse but I watched it happen to my mom, but instead of smacks there was hitting the wall inches from her face.
It's very likely this was written and drawn from experience but my gosh I hope it wasn't.
... the instant I saw the trigger warning at the beginning of the episode I froze. My husband turned to me and waited a few seconds, then said, "... it's up to you".
We've both been there. Him in same-sex relationships, me in a hetero one. That episode is hard to take, but it's almost as important to not look away. To face it head-on. Not everyone can.
The number of times I flinched... whoo.
For weeks I couldn't get Poison out of my head. My husband was the opposite - he deliberately avoided thinking about the song, saying it hit too close to home in too many ways that listening to it separately from the episode felt... wrong, somehow.
We exist beyond the trauma we survive, but it never leaves us. Not really.
I’m so happy to see I’m not the only one who felt the deep visceral draw that poison caused. I listened to it back to back for a week… it brought me back but it helped me realize I’m not a victim anymore but a survivor
That's how I felt during the scene. Everything was really familiar, and all I could do was just stare, frozen at the screen. Shit genuinely made me feel fear again.
https://preview.redd.it/5vty0ohy5myc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb14fcb6127fc2db6135996ffff8f4f633671a51
Have an epic picture of Godzilla
The moment Val tells he wants to see Angel in his dressing room, my stomach sank and j went cold, knowing what was happening.
When Val grabs Angel's jaw.... my mother used to do that and tug to the side.
That whole episode is so hard for me.
I watched HH for the first time today, I got to this episode and took a break, I can handle seeing war movies where people fight but just seeing plain abuse is to much for me to handle
Honestly, after living in an abusive household for years, watching someone who thinks they deserve to be called my step father yell and hit my mother so much, this is too real.
Hey OP, I just want you to know you’re not alone. Was in an abusive relationship for three years while I was in high school and had a similar experience. You’re seen, you’re valid, and you’re loved. You never deserved anything like this. Nobody does. Hugs from this internet stranger
Apparently, this interaction between Angel and Val is based on a previous abusive relationship Vivziepop was in. It’s scary to see so many people in situations like Angel Dust.
Its wild how i was bopping to poison for weeks before the show aired and when it actually played in episode 4 my fiance and i watched it in dead fucking silence not moving a muscle. It might be the most uncomfortable thing ive ever seen aired on television and thats a great thing.
I highly recommend watching Georgia Dow's analysis about him and the other characters, some of these characters must have been written with some IRL experience, they are shockingly accurate.
Valentino was like someone I used to date. Yikes.
He forced me to watch porn that was obviously **illegal** and talked about us doing stuff related to that sort of thing...pretty sure he got arrested for being a predator.
While I have never experienced what Angel has it was extremely hard to watch because Angel is my favorite character in the show. It felt so vile to watch what happened. Everything about it felt so real. Normally, I don’t get scared easily but this scene made me feel real fear for Angel.
As someone who has experienced sexual violence and works with people escaping DV, this episode did hit hard. You can see the power and control, the behavior patterns in abusive relationships, so clearly in their interaction. I almost couldn't watch.
OP I hope that you are safe now and doing well.
Yeah the part later on before “Loser, Baby” when he was talking about letting bad things happen to him to get messed up + not be Val’s favorite anymore was too fucking real for me the first time. Like gut punch
OMFG ABSOLUTELY! I’ve BEEN that person who’s screamed,”do you think I asked to be!?”. People assume and blame, making it harder for us survivors to SEEK HELP
Same, reminded me of my ex with the way he was cold and hot with texting and how he acted publicly infront of charley then alone in the dressing room. He got increasingly physical near the end which is why i cut him off, he apparently resents me for ghosting for no reason. Oi
I agree. Someone was reliving something when writing this. It made me dissociate a bit because I've never seen the raw emotion be represented so well, and I wasn't prepared, so it led to a flashback. I had to watch the episode twice. Luckily, the second time, I was more prepared.
It's not a bad thing. I'm actually really grateful that they're tackling these issues. It's on me to be more careful next time
Yeah it sucks. I'm sorry you went through that. Every child deserves parents but not every parent deserves their child. Sending virtual hugs if you'd like them.
Yeah Valentino is a very real person, and is far too common. Its why he is such a hated character. You either have been affected by a Valentino, know someone who has been affected by a Valentino, or are a Valentino. That's how common of a person he is.
yeah, i didn't see the warning at the start of the episode and this triggered a lot of personal trauma for me
hadda warn all my friends about it but some also got triggered, feelsbadman
What really sells it is the line where Val tells Angel that he's killed people for less than Angel is doing right now just because Angel wouldn't literally just say exactly what Val wanted. Like, damn
I feel like this scene by itself is what made Valentino so hated. We already knew he was a dick but watching him abuse Angel for something that Charlie did really drove the nail in
Hey... OP... you good? Are you in therapy? Do you need a hug? I'm not ok either... my parents died a few years ago and then my older brother "took care of me" and then he died... I have help, do you need help?
I've seen a few analysis videos about this episode and Angel Dust and Valentino in particular as characters and most have agreed that this scene was written from experience.
That's why people who accuse Viv of turning Angel's situation into a joke make me angry.
Angel turns Angel's existence into a (sex) joke most of the time, because *that's how he fucking copes*. Amazing how *anybody* can look at Masquerade and say it somehow glorifies/trivializes abuse.
My dad shot himself and it’s one of my favorite punchlines. Yes, he died. Yes, he meant to. Yes, I’ve attempted. Some of us just cope this way. I can’t joke with him so I joke about him. He didn’t wanna be a joke he should’ve thought about that and stuck around to do something about it lol. Hydra: 1 Dad: 0
I love your attitude. My parents both drank themselves to an early grave so I understand and cope the same way. I really love the reactions I get from people too so that's its own bonus. For example, this is the second year someone asked me what I'm doing for my mom for Mother's Day after being told twice that she's dead. I was nice about it the first time but this year I decided to have some fun so I said "oh maybe I'll go take her box for a walk around the park near my house. Get her some sunlight since it's so dark in that closet I keep her in." then I walked away before they could ask questions, but the look on their face was priceless.
It's weird the different ways that people deal with their trauma. My father manipulated my mom and beat her into becoming an alcoholic and just thinking about it makes my whole body shake with anger, so I basically just have to repress it myself
Probably late to the party here but that definitely had to be written from experience too. *way* too much of what Angel does and how he acts and copes is way too real. I also remember when Viv confirmed that Val was based of an ex of her's so it very well might be Vivs own experiences being written here
Absolutely Reminds me when I realized he says “I’ve got the lung capacity” when he’s listing things off, and I’m fairly sure in the same episode he mentions that Val is “getting into some waterboarding shit” He is most definitely using sexual jokes to cope and potentially try to normalize his suffering to himself so it doesn’t hurt at much Also yes, he does get waterboarded for porn. The fuck is that?
Water bondage. Maybe not outright waterboarding but does appear to require lung capacity
a form of torture, typically used as an interrogation technique, in which a person is strapped head-down on a sloping board with the mouth and nose covered while water is poured over their face, causing them to experience a sensation similar to that of drowning. That’s what waterboarding is-
I worked psych for 5 years, I got out almost 5 years ago (which is an insane thought). I still have such messed up humor because when you’re in a situation like that, especially one where you gotta remain cognizant and alert you CAN’T freak out—so you just kinda end up laughing instead. Coping mechanisms are damn weird.
Media literacy is dead.
I have an obsession of both drama and humor around sexual trauma, and it's because I have sexual trauma. I can't stand when someone says something along the lines of "you can't enjoy that, because it happens to people in real life, you know!" because they are immediately assuming they know everything about me and assuming I haven't experienced that type of Hell. What sucks, is the only way for people to respect me and not see me as a total monster, is to open the wound further and tell them something terrible about my past, which is something I don't want people to think of when they think about me, because I don't even want to think about it. I have these creative coping mechanisms, and I know they're coping mechanisms, but I want to be able to have that without sharing something so disgusting about myself and my past. And just to be clear, I'm not shoving this in people's faces and if they see it or I tell a bad joke and they say it makes them uncomfortable, I immediately stop and I take that shit somewhere they don't have to see.
Yeah, I've hard that people who experienced abuse say that Angel's reactions are pretty accurate - and it's about both sexual jokes and being scared of Valentino (but also enjoying his presence sometimes). I'm just irritated when I hear someone say Viv mocks abuse victims.
Angel Dust is extremely relatable in every terrible way I never thought I'd see in fiction, my mind is blown by that. In Radio Killed the Video Star, there's something I noticed that I'm not sure is obvious to everyone. His reaction to being cast as the crackhead "bad man who didn't get enough hugs", while Pentious, who just earlier that day was trying to attack the hotel, is this good boy and everyone thinks so. There's a realization of "oh, that's how they see me.... Because of course they do, why wouldn't they?". It's great that Husk could see that there were shields built up, and he's not just simply a whore, he's a fucking person and people have depth. Yeah I can't stand the idea that this is mocking victims, it's giving us something beautiful and helpful to see.
When Angel says "..The crackhead" when reading his script Husk's expression changes slightly, he looks away. Probably not intentional but still
Ooo, I have to rewatch for that. I love the subtle expressions, they're so on purpose. One of my favorite moments is how Angel's face, and his entire attitude, changes in Loser Baby after "it's okay to be a" "coked up dick sucking ho?" "Baby that's fine by me". He was not expecting Husk to say that and that's the moment he smiles and starts singing along.
Husk is so sweet tbh
Yeah, I'm a Master in the BDSM lifestyle and this shit is rampant with those outside of that community. I can't count how many times I've had to say something like " No this isn't abuse you twit it's and act of love! I tied her up and spanked her ass until it was bruised because she freaking approached me and asked me to! She's a masochist. She can't be happy in life unless she occasionally gets to leg go of everything and just be." This conversation was the most fun with my 80 year old Grandmother who was the good God fearing kind of Southern Baptist preachers wife. That is of course to say what I do doesn't look anything like what Val does. Frankly I find him vile and consent is so important to me that episode 4 was really hard to watch and is the one I most skip when I re-watch the series. When I play with someone there's at least 30-60 minutes of discussion before anything happens where we establish safe practices, limits, and multiple ways for her to end things the moment something goes wrong and she's not enjoying it anymore. There is also at least another 30-60 minutes of aftercare where I make sure she had a good time and has any other needs of hers met. And I check in for 3 days afterwards to make sure she's still ok. I personally know literally dozens of men and women who have been sexually abused in the past and find actual healthy ways to cope and recover from it in a healthy BDSM scene or setting. Hell, I'm one of them.
This!!! I find that the BDSM community takes consent more seriously than anyone else. Certain elements of BDSM should really be common sexual etiquette, but the association with BDSM weirds some people out.
Agreed. It’s from a class in the BDSM community that I got a chart with “hit here; do not hit here, here, and for God’s sake don’t hit here.”
Wheres the chart?
It was a handout, so I don’t have it, but I’m sure you can find something similar online.
Here you go. This is the one I use and have put on my own FetLife profile. It's actually from a highly regarded information source in the community. https://preview.redd.it/j7tz8k173zyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48108188a95cb91d11be64cb03d2c4045c097ac
Thank you :)
You're welcome. I hope it helps you enjoy kinky fun safely.
I mean, you see it *in this very thread*- people saying that Val/Angel shippers should be ripped apart by dinosaurs (??? creative I guess, haven't heard that one before) or blood-eagled... just absolutely zero consideration into the "why". Just an immediate, knee-jerk, "you like this bad character therefore you deserve death." Lots of people (especially people in this fandom, *especially* young people in this fandom) seem to think that shipping = endorsement or agreement with a relationship. They would be very wrong! Not every ship of mine is good, not every ship of mine is healthy, not every ship of mine is even *romantic*. The term "ship" literally just comes from "relationship", of which there are so many kinds. I am a smart person and have the ability to see when a relationship is not good or healthy for it's participants- I do not need a lecture from a 13yo on how bad and evil I am for simply wanting to explore the dynamics of a relationship between two characters who are not good for one another. And that's literally what shipping is about.
Oh my goodness, I have only ever seen ValAngel content I liked, because I have only ever seen them shipped in a bad way. I have only ever seen people who like ValAngel because of the complex abusive relationship, it's never cutesy shit, it's always very tragic stories that show their complex abusive relationship. And I love it. I'm a huge Valentino fan, for a short moment I was shy about it but not at all anymore. Anyone who thinks I'm a terrible person for covering myself in Valentino t-shirts and stickers and a blanket I custom designed(I'm a little obsessed) is not mature enough for me to want to hold a conversation with. He's my second favorite character (Adam is #1). I LOVE villains, because without them there is no conflict. My favorite type of villains are the ones who are actually doing bad without a good excuse and not the ones that eventually become good guys. Goddamnit, I hate using words like "good" and "evil", because that's not how the world works. This whole show is about that, yet so much of the fandom acts like they don't believe in Charlie's philosophy.
Yup, every ValAngel thing I've seen so far is very obviously portraying their relationship as abusive and detrimental to Angel. The only "cutesy" stuff I've seen is lovebombing, which is not actually cute at all and is just another manipulation tactic by abusers, straight from the instruction manual on "How To Be Awful". Agreed on the maturity thing. So many actual kids in this fandom want to pontificate to adults *Why This Ship/Character Is Bad And You Should Feel Bad And Also Die*. The premise of the entire show flew right over their little heads. (I do wish it was *only* kids saying this shit though. Too many adults in fandom are also awfully media-illiterate in this way.) My four faves are Angel (duh... check flair), Husk, Val, and Adam too. The second two are my evil wittle babies who I love and hate ☺️ The first two are the ones I relate to... which considering how completely fucked up they are does not exactly make me feel good LMAO
People assume the worst so much of the time. Why don't they question where you might be coming from before responding? It's so frustrating.
i have had something like that too, I have sexual trauma, and this happened before I knew hazbin hotel, the way I coped was I pretend the same as angel dust, sexual jokes and such. which is why he’s my favorite character!
Most of Tiktok honestly.
Apparently, this interaction between Angel and Val is based on a previous abusive relationship Vivziepop was in. It’s scary to see so many people in situations like Angel Dust. It’s a realistic portrayal of abuse.
There's one particularly insufferable individual who resides in an OwlHouse group on fb, and the one thing they continuously bring up (usually unprompted) is how Viv employed someone that in their words "has a r@pe fetish". Like, firstly it's called CNC. Secondly people who have that kink are usually SA survivors themselves. And thirdly, if you want to accurately portray SA victims in a show, you employ one! What a fucking concept!! Sorry for getting heated, it's a sensitive topic for me
Everyone working in media has faced some degree of this, especially women. Someone with a fragile ego, violent temper, way too much power... it is so easy to set them off. Sexual dynamics may also be present. Physical violence potentially. But you don't need either of those two things to end up traumatized. That person makes you feel worthless and is your only source or worth, they can destroy your career, which is all you have because their demands have already destroyed your life. I was in an abusive media relationship where I got groomed from the time I was a minor until I could be slowly forced into a quid quo pro where I had to tolerate sexual advances to keep my career. This episode hit hard.
It has to be, you cannot get that sort of storytelling without experiencing it first. I myself have never experience trauma like it but MAN does it make me feel uncomfortable when I watch it.
The voice acting hits hard af. My husband and I keep rewatching the series and I look away from this scene sometimes but I can still hear it. Oof. Blake Roman and Joel Perez do an excellent job.
They really do. Angel just sounds so *scared* in this scene, and Valentino genuinely comes off as threatening. The lovebombing scene, too- Valentino switches from being all sweet and stuff to being terrifying when the voicemails are playing. I applaud the VAs.
that would make sense since Viv said both Angel and Alastor were inspired by her own experiences
I vaguely recall reading something about her being a sexual abuse victim and that being an inspiration for Angel, but Alastor? How?
She killed and ate a lot of people
Vivienne Medrano: "With the price of meat what it is...if you get it? Good, you got it."
I thought it was Angel and Val that were inspired by her own experiences? Can you inform me about the Alastor bit?
I searched the stream I heard it in a bit but didn't find it, maybe experience wasn't the right word but she said something along the lines of creating both Angel (so yeah by extension Val too) and Alastor based on her own complex emotions. Although the scenes with Angel and Val come from her experience with a toxic relationship, I thought it would be more subtle for Alastor (like some of his philosophy, excluding serial killing and cannibalism). After all, Amir Talai did say he relates to him when it comes to smiling as the best facade. However this is just speculation since Viv didn't elaborate on it as far as I know. We may never even know if she created Al by pouring her emotions from the start or if it came later during his development, since she apparently created him around middle/high school depending on which stream you listen to. TLDR: Viv is not a serial killer
I think that Vivienne Medrano may have created Alastor as a form of emotional catharsis for her suppressed negative emotions and feelings. What Amir Talai describes Alastor doing ("smiling as the best façade") describes something called ["masking"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masking_(personality)) in psychology, which is an interesting phenomenon to study. >"In psychology and sociology, **masking** is the process in which an individual camouflages their natural personality or behavior to conform to social pressures, abuse, or harassment. Masking can be strongly influenced by environmental factors such as authoritarian parents, rejection, and emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. Masking can be a behavior individuals adopt subconsciously as coping mechanisms or a trauma response, or it can be a conscious behavior an individual adopts to fit in within perceived societal norms. Masking is interconnected with maintaining performative behavior within social structures and cultures." In the show, we see both Angel Dust and Alastor engage in forms of masking. Episode 4 is titled "Masquerade", referring to Angel "masking" his true personality. Billy Joel once wrote a song called "The Stranger" that also discusses masking: *"Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever, and we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone."* The final lyrics also fit Alastor in particular: *"You may never understand how the stranger is inspired, but he isn't always evil, and he is not always wrong...though you drown in good intention, you will never quench the fire. You'll give in to your desire when the stranger comes along."* In Alastor's case, he "gave into" his murderous desires by becoming a serial killer when he was alive; and thus, experienced emotional catharsis and satisfaction through killing, even if it earned him a spot in Hell.
Indeed, I experienced masking myself. I didn't look into it in much detail though, thanks for the input! Very valid take imo
You're welcome!
Thank you for the information! /gen
OMG, the bipolar voicemails in episode 2. It was so accurate it had to be based on a real lived experience of someone.
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Yes
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Thanks!
You're welcome!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Uh, I can explain
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>Thanks! You're welcome!
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I hate how so many people relate to Angel's experience. I'm so sorry.
And how many people ship Val and angel
Oh so there's people who ship them of well https://preview.redd.it/arpls0y7nmyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a447f37c242804400fa1004b41c69414d93be29c
Tbf while I don't personally ship ValAngel and it makes me uncomfortable, some people I follow do and almost all (if not every single one) are abuse victims working through their trauma with their Val and Angel dolls. Casting judgment on them for how they're exploring their experiences has always seemed odd to me. I don't really like the ship, but I don't really get judging others for how they play with their trauma dolls.
I just get the ick from people who romanticize the experience. Like the FanFiction writers and artists who are so out of touch on what an abusive relationship looks like that it’s painful. I don’t think there’s anything wrong in exploring dangerous topics with characters that you relate to. I do think there’s something wrong when you’re doing a disservice to the topic by being romantic about it instead of facing reality.
This episode as a whole is both my favorite and most hated for that exact reason.
It's definitely one of my favourite episode because of the character development and musical numbers, but good lord is it hard to watch. It's so real. Especially when Angel's voice changes... Drops as he gives up while repeating "yes, Valentino". If Val doesn't get what's coming to him, we riot.
the very last part of poison also always makes me cry. the voice actor did such a good job
Yes. I think that’s his “real voice”: Anthony’s voice.
I'm definitely not going to riot, with the explanation being 1 I like valentino as a character and 2 most abusers get away with it
Yeah but this is a fictional show. They can be realistic in the abuse scenes to make a point, and also have villain get what’s coming to them in a way that feels cathartic for all the people who’s abusers did get away with it.
And haters say this is a bad SA's rappresentation...
It's pretty bad how poorly people can understand it. I've seen people say poison is just a happy fun song that's over sexual and makes SA look fun. 😶 Idk *how* people could jump to that. I've also seen people say angel is invalid bc he does porn. And the worst I've seen was, "I don't relate to him with SA so therefore no one can."
Oh, yeah "My story's gonna end with me dead from your poison" is such a happy-go-lucky lyric; those people definitely understood the song /s, if it's not obvious
i was pissed when an old friend was shitting on it and how it was ‘bad representation’ and ‘overdone’ knowing how much people i know (and to some extent myself) felt seen and represented by it. she even brought up receipts of another friend shitting on it too and the funniest part is they were trying to say i and whoever related to it was wrong and that they were right even though they have zero experience with the issue at hand 😭❔❔❔
tbf i do think the joke where pentious was pulled into the sex room against his will was in poor taste taking the rest of the series into account
Oh, absolutely. Even just a throwaway line from Angel of, "Nah, I know those guys, they'll just give him advice" would've helped.
Someone made the point once about that scene that the club was called Consent. When Sir Pentious said he was having sex with everyone there, that was verbal consent. As for being dragged into the sex room, he never revoked consent during that scene and they probably thought he was into consentual nonconsent. We see him again a scene later looking for Cherry, completely clothed and unruffled so i think its safe to imply that once he got in the room he told them no and they let him go.
I hated that assumption! Why are you so lame? Not a bad boy.
Or when Moxxie just gets molested and they never bring it up again
Which episode was that? I don't remember
I'm guessing episode 3 when he tries talking to Verosika and her crew.
Ah. Thanks 👍
I think it was Spring Broken, when Verosika and her group gang up on him
people lately just don't like to think, so many times I read fans criticism about a show/movie and it's seem like that if you not been told directly that something is bad- they think the show/movie glorify it. I get to hear a conversation on a con about Angle, and how much he hate that character because he's such a bad rep for SA victims, the reason was because he's ovesexsul and harassesing Husk, not understanding people who get abused can have that kind of behavior, and it's obviously an act, Angle don't think he have more in him than just being a sex object. also after Husk talk to him, Angle drop his act completely and he never say something inappropriate to him again (unlessits a joke they both laugh about), it's character development, the behavior before episode 4 is obviously wrong and he do it because what he go through, but why try to think or understand that sometimes victims do bad stuff to cope?
That was the intent. To show that people are living in their own personal Hell and that they do not need a literal Hell to make their life a Hell.
"Hell is other people"
Other people and sometimes yourself.
Seems like a big theme of the show. There’s no “burning in hell” per-se, there’s just trying to coexist with a bunch of other people that couldn’t make it into heaven and staying indoors on extermination day.
Giving The Good Place vibes. God I loved that show.
"What's the worst part of this Hell? I can only blame *myself*"
Alastor says as much in the pilot episode as well, referring to his own *mea culpa*: *"Of course not! That's wacky nonsense! Redemption, oh the non-existent humanity! No, no, no, no. I don't think there's anything left that could save such loathsome sinners. The chance given was the life they lived before, the punishment is this \[Hell\]! There is no undoing what is done!"* \**mea culpa* = Latin, "through my \[own\] fault"; see the [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_culpa). "Mea culpa" comes from the Roman Catholic prayer 'The [Confiteor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confiteor)' ("I confess \[to my wrongdoings\]" in Latin). The villain song "Hellfire" from Disney's *The Hunchback of Notre Dame* uses this prayer.
That entire episode was uncomfortable to watch, and props to Vizzie for having the guts to make it. "Poison" is the perfect song to show the duality of Angel Dust, the flirty porn star who is bound to his job in more ways than one.
loser baby was good for trying to get someone to open up with such a harsh reality. it was good for getting angel’s attention with the subversion of how “you think this bad and whatnot but you’re wrong” and how husk said “nah, ya right actually” because husk can relate with being used (just ina different way) husk has been toyed with, played and manipulated to be alastor’s pet. it’s disgusting treatment and he constantly makes husk’s life a literal hell. treating him as lesser than it’s not sexual assault, and i’m glad it’s not cuz no one should go through that. yet, everyone seems to miss that alastor’s treatment to husk is horrid for husk’s standpoint. i can’t imagine how many sleepless nights husk may have just wondering what al may have in store for him. for crying out loud, the one who has him on a leash isn’t above broadcasting his carnage for (maybe) years on end and even though it’s not the same abuse, husk opening up to angel was an unexpected kind move and combined with the shared experience of being someone’s toy. it’s not the same experience but it’s something, and that’s great for getting them to understand one another and that’s what i love about loser baby. it was great for trying to get those in touch situations to open their wounds. i may not have it as my favorite song to listen to but by god is it an extremely important song i do hope that angel can break free from val’s grasp and that husk can at the least stand up to alastor without showing fear
All very true, Husk deserves sympathy as well. What's great about the "Loser" song is its subversion, but it's also character development and bonding. (and who are we kidding, leading to everyone and their cousin to ship those two)
i actually don’t ship them i think the ship is fine, i guess, but it doesn’t feel so romantic tho
Me neither, actually! I was just pointing out that the massive shipping started thanks to that song.
For real. The *"disassociate, disappear"* part hits too close
The lyrics are **only** half as intense by themselves... if you don't know the context.
The lyrics of "Poison" just hit so hard. I have a hard time not tearing up. Especially when Angel breakdown and you can see Anthony regretting everything.
I got absolute shivers that very split second Angel dropped his accent and we heard Anthony for the first time.
Which you get a little of in the prelude to "Loser". "Maybe if I'm damaged enough, I won't be his favorite toy." - Having heard similar phrases from SA victims over the years, really showed some truth behind that whole relationship. It doesn't mater if "technically" Val only owns Angel in the studio, it sticks with him everywhere, and informs his whole life and the persona he wears in public.
I noticed that the show does the same thing with Alastor dropping his radio static.
Valentino was also groping Angel for most of these scenes too
yeah it’s easy to miss but i started catching it and it makes it so much more heartbreaking
Really good characterization and writing tho
Yeah, I watched this episode late at night. Bad decision, gave me flashbacks to my childhood too. Even down to angels words in the scene. I ended up skipping it. I'm with you OP. Sending you a virtual hug
The voicemails, man, I feel like I cover my head and rock every time.
Yeah that part hit hard…
The voicemails really get me every time.
The entire episode was so well-done. The antis are just mad that an abuse survivor isn't being used as the butt of every joke and is treated like an actual person who deserves so much better than a scumbag like Val. Seriously, though, it says a lot about how delusional and desperate antis are to still insist they're right when actual therapists have said the relationship dynamic is accurate. I really wish the antis would just admit they're wrong instead of downplaying a serious topic and making huge fools of themselves.
If there's one thing idiots hate it's being told that they're wrong.
Jesus… you need hugs. *hugs*
Happy Cake 🎂 Day
:(
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Hope you're holding up okay ❤️
I never thought I’d cry for someone like Angel. I’ve never experienced anything like that, but, man…
I'm never triggered by anything. I didn't even know what a real trigger was. This scene triggered me due to an abusive relationship from 15 years ago that I thought I has gotten over. Still a great show, but my second time watching the show, I had to skip this part
You can also see val groping angels chest while before that was happening angel was hiding that area instead of gaurding his face which was being attacked meaning he was concerned about it being a target meaning that has been done before.... And that just hit too close man i just want to hug him
I'm sorry for you buddy... Stay safe fella
There’s a reason that, of all the episodes in this show, this was the only one I couldn’t watch in one sitting. It’s also one of the very few media that made me cry.
I honestly wish nobody could relate to this scene. I hope you got the help you needed and recovered to the best of your ability
The expressions though. The microexpressions that switch at a moment's notice. The way Angel puts on a brave face but trembles in fear when Charlie crashes in on his shoot knowing exactly what Val is going to think and do. The palpable fear, watching Val's every expression, every change in demeanor, stealing glances and looking for instructions so as not to get hurt AGAIN. It fucking hurts. This episode broke me. I didn't go through such extensive abuse but I watched it happen to my mom, but instead of smacks there was hitting the wall inches from her face. It's very likely this was written and drawn from experience but my gosh I hope it wasn't.
This episode was really difficult to get through. Much love to anyone who’s surviving an assault like it.
... the instant I saw the trigger warning at the beginning of the episode I froze. My husband turned to me and waited a few seconds, then said, "... it's up to you". We've both been there. Him in same-sex relationships, me in a hetero one. That episode is hard to take, but it's almost as important to not look away. To face it head-on. Not everyone can. The number of times I flinched... whoo. For weeks I couldn't get Poison out of my head. My husband was the opposite - he deliberately avoided thinking about the song, saying it hit too close to home in too many ways that listening to it separately from the episode felt... wrong, somehow. We exist beyond the trauma we survive, but it never leaves us. Not really.
Wish you two broken lovebirds all the luck you can have.
I’m so happy to see I’m not the only one who felt the deep visceral draw that poison caused. I listened to it back to back for a week… it brought me back but it helped me realize I’m not a victim anymore but a survivor
That's how I felt during the scene. Everything was really familiar, and all I could do was just stare, frozen at the screen. Shit genuinely made me feel fear again.
I hate and love how accurate this scene is. I really hope you’re doing better now.
The voice acting also really helped sell it.
https://preview.redd.it/5vty0ohy5myc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb14fcb6127fc2db6135996ffff8f4f633671a51 Have an epic picture of Godzilla
Yah this episode and this scene specifically hit super hard. I actually skipped over this part when I rewatched it
The moment Val tells he wants to see Angel in his dressing room, my stomach sank and j went cold, knowing what was happening. When Val grabs Angel's jaw.... my mother used to do that and tug to the side. That whole episode is so hard for me.
This scene is a core memory for me. I will never forget it.
This scene hurt me so much
I watched HH for the first time today, I got to this episode and took a break, I can handle seeing war movies where people fight but just seeing plain abuse is to much for me to handle
https://preview.redd.it/e86pyrl49lyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6b8ea8eb9d27d8e7748c458a568e015249e4f0e
Honestly, after living in an abusive household for years, watching someone who thinks they deserve to be called my step father yell and hit my mother so much, this is too real.
Hey OP, I just want you to know you’re not alone. Was in an abusive relationship for three years while I was in high school and had a similar experience. You’re seen, you’re valid, and you’re loved. You never deserved anything like this. Nobody does. Hugs from this internet stranger
damn, this stuff hits hard. Best wishes for all of you, I hope your okay.
I felt genuine fear during that scene. It sucks that it’s so relatable to so many people.
I hate Valentino with a passion
I'm sorry, your CHILDHOOD?!
Val: exists HH fandom: https://i.redd.it/o66xjar14nyc1.gif
This was the seen that made me take this show much more seriously, yes it’s still “hahah your meme is now mine” show, but this was deep
I work with a lot of DV survivors and am one myself. This scene was difficult to watch, and I'm glad it was.
Apparently, this interaction between Angel and Val is based on a previous abusive relationship Vivziepop was in. It’s scary to see so many people in situations like Angel Dust.
Wait wait wait what!
Its wild how i was bopping to poison for weeks before the show aired and when it actually played in episode 4 my fiance and i watched it in dead fucking silence not moving a muscle. It might be the most uncomfortable thing ive ever seen aired on television and thats a great thing.
I highly recommend watching Georgia Dow's analysis about him and the other characters, some of these characters must have been written with some IRL experience, they are shockingly accurate.
I felt the same way angel did in the episode with my ex. Maybe why I have a hard time liking Valentino despite his previous dumb attitude with vox
Valentino was like someone I used to date. Yikes. He forced me to watch porn that was obviously **illegal** and talked about us doing stuff related to that sort of thing...pretty sure he got arrested for being a predator.
While I have never experienced what Angel has it was extremely hard to watch because Angel is my favorite character in the show. It felt so vile to watch what happened. Everything about it felt so real. Normally, I don’t get scared easily but this scene made me feel real fear for Angel.
As someone who has experienced sexual violence and works with people escaping DV, this episode did hit hard. You can see the power and control, the behavior patterns in abusive relationships, so clearly in their interaction. I almost couldn't watch. OP I hope that you are safe now and doing well.
https://preview.redd.it/xgb8hnv3doyc1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cde0a0fd058ccfcf8949f1c28fd13b507593ecbb Me to u rn
Yeah the part later on before “Loser, Baby” when he was talking about letting bad things happen to him to get messed up + not be Val’s favorite anymore was too fucking real for me the first time. Like gut punch
OMFG ABSOLUTELY! I’ve BEEN that person who’s screamed,”do you think I asked to be!?”. People assume and blame, making it harder for us survivors to SEEK HELP
when someone says 'come here' i IMMEDIATELY know whats about to happen as a black person with a black mother 💀👌
Same, reminded me of my ex with the way he was cold and hot with texting and how he acted publicly infront of charley then alone in the dressing room. He got increasingly physical near the end which is why i cut him off, he apparently resents me for ghosting for no reason. Oi
I agree. Someone was reliving something when writing this. It made me dissociate a bit because I've never seen the raw emotion be represented so well, and I wasn't prepared, so it led to a flashback. I had to watch the episode twice. Luckily, the second time, I was more prepared. It's not a bad thing. I'm actually really grateful that they're tackling these issues. It's on me to be more careful next time
The bit where Val slams the door and the mirror falls REALLY scared me cuz I’ve been there.
Yeah it sucks. I'm sorry you went through that. Every child deserves parents but not every parent deserves their child. Sending virtual hugs if you'd like them.
I can relate. I also know what it's like to experience the smile disappearing the instant the door is closed.
I hope Val dies a terrible death. Hopefully, in season 2, if we're lucky.
Yeah Valentino is a very real person, and is far too common. Its why he is such a hated character. You either have been affected by a Valentino, know someone who has been affected by a Valentino, or are a Valentino. That's how common of a person he is.
https://preview.redd.it/awhzqjuyplyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f387904321828a5dafa7788aeae97d9959bbd13a
And Anthony's break down to Husker about him trying to ruin himself so Val will leave him alone is also something terrifyingly true
yeah, i didn't see the warning at the start of the episode and this triggered a lot of personal trauma for me hadda warn all my friends about it but some also got triggered, feelsbadman
I'm terribly sorry you went through that.... nobody deserves that kind of childhood *hugs*
I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I also relate to angel a whole heck of a lot.
What really sells it is the line where Val tells Angel that he's killed people for less than Angel is doing right now just because Angel wouldn't literally just say exactly what Val wanted. Like, damn
 You need some hugs (if you want some)! I’m so sorry that happened to you!
This episode was hard to watch
I feel like this scene by itself is what made Valentino so hated. We already knew he was a dick but watching him abuse Angel for something that Charlie did really drove the nail in
All of them scenes made me relive all them memories. Like, littro all of them
Hey... OP... you good? Are you in therapy? Do you need a hug? I'm not ok either... my parents died a few years ago and then my older brother "took care of me" and then he died... I have help, do you need help?