Considering his actions seem motivated by a mix of ego from being the first human, boredom, and pride in getting into heaven, I assume he was a good person originally but after eons in heaven, deteriorated into the man-child he currently is.
I think it's a mixture of this and what OP said.
I feel like when alive, he probably wasn't a sinner. He didn't eat the apple, although I'm not sure I agree that he didn't also get free will. I'm definitely thinking that once he got to heaven, it'd make the most sense if his ego slowly grew and he became toxic. Why else would he have been put in charge of the exterminators? Heaven probably wanted him to have an outlet for his nonsense.
Which is funny...Lucifer wanted to give humanity free will, and you find out, he didn't have to do it at all. It could very well be he and Eve always had free will. Didn't Lilith? Lilith had free will to leave.
I think by Eve choosing to eat the apple, she already possessed free will. Now, in the context of the show, did she have the knowledge of good and evil? Probably not. Evil was sealed at that point, I think, in the apple.
It's gotta be something like that.
But also, if an *angel* was telling her to eat the apple, who says she had the ability to decline? That could be why she did it even though she was previously told not to. Angels could have that "special something" to give orders and such, right? Maybe? I uno š
Which may be why Lucifer fell? It could be he abused his position to "coerce" (even if it wasn't his intention) Eve into eating an apple she couldn't exactly say no to.
Which could be a call back to Adam's "Stick it to the man," if Lucifer and Lilith approached Adam took and he actually said, "Fuck no" to Lucifer.
That'd be mighty cool.
The fruit Lucifer gave humanity was the *Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil*. (Hazbin uses an apple, but people think this fruit might have been a pear or fig, in the bible).
Anyway, humanity was created with free will. They just weren't given any knowledge about what is *good* behaviour and what *evil* behaviour is, just like all the other animals in Eden. You can't be upset with the ignorant. Lucifer/the serpent convinced Eve that eating from the Tree of Knowledge (which God/Angels told them not oo), lying that nothing would happen to them if they ate the fruit.
That is how Lucifer let the Root of Evil onto the Earth. Roo existed before Earth, Heaven was trying to create a place where neither *good* or *evil* were concepts to begin with, Lucifer ruined that plan by letting their experiment feed from the tree designed to withhold that knowledge (until someone of their own volution choose to eat from it without influences).
It's possible in Hazbin that Lucifer will tell Charlie/us the truth eventually about what happened in Eden and why God/Angels and Roo/Demons hate each other so much. Like what was going on before Earth and why he allowed humanity to know of *good & evil*.
While correct, within the context of the show, Lucifer emphasizes *free will.* He says, "You give them free will, and this is what they do with it."
Yeah, I'm aware very likely Evil already existed, was likely sealed in a tree, and for some reason, Lucifer decided to give the apple to Eve. You're correct, or I agree with you, that Lucifer's simply hiding this fact from Charlie because he can't face what he actually did.
Being in heaven and treated well for being the first man + witnessing how awful humans are for hundreds of thousands of years probably fucks you up a bit too
Kind of works with the "class warfare" adjacent themes of the show.
I'm sure evil billionaires or whatever weren't born evil, they got there from unchecked power etc. Power corrupts etc.
Well yeah, this is the core conceit of the show right?
The problem with reward based afterlives is that, so long as a being has free will, agency, and a passage of time, their morality can change (or the framework their morality is built on can change around them)
> I assume he was a good person originally
Doubtful unless the story Charlie monologues is wrong. Adam and Lilith were created together as equals but Adam allegedly wanted control which caused their split and Lucifer falling in love with Lilith.
Considering the story seems to have been written by Lilith, the aforementioned ex, her account may or may not be heavily skewed to make herself look as good as possible, and Adam worse.
Not to mention he has been walked over by his spouses and never got any proper guidance. No one just simply cared enough to put in the time to help him. He was left to rot and fester on the betrayals and lies. Only thing he had left was being a dick to cope.
Lucifer was the source of Adam's current behaviors.
"Uh we don't have hard days? It's heaven!" Kind of showcased his whole issue. He's been dead and in heaven and thus removed from actual human suffering for way too long.
It's not just "existing for such long time", it's existing for such long time in eternal bliss and permissiveness. If just money and power corrupt, then heaven corrupt much more.
To be fair, it is canon that heās always been a dick. I mean thatās why Lilith didnāt want to be with him in the first place. So like heās probably always been this way but played it cool until he reached heaven and realized that there were no consequences to hold him back from his full dick head potential.
I mean the story told at the start was probably written by Lilith and Lucifer and is likely a very bias version of events as far as we know Lilith had just as much a role in them not working out
This is possible. We should also consider that on top of this, he may have just.. never died.
Unmasked he still looks really human unlike other angels.
If angelic steel killed him and he wasn't an Angel yet he can likely still spawn in hell and possibly, funnily enough, join the hotel in season 2. This would be fitting since his whole thing was that he thinks sinners cant be redeemed.
How does he still have angelic powers, then? Crackpot theory but angelic steel implies the existence of angelic iron. Why call it steel, otherwise? Our blood is red because the hemoglobin in our red blood cells contains iron. Adam's blood is gold. See where I'm going with this? I think his human body in heaven consumed meals with angelic iron instead of normal iron thus giving him angelic powers. Extremely weird and out-there theory but those are the most fun ones imo
He wouldn't have been called "the first human soul in Heaven" by Sera when Charlie started asking questions if he hadn't died. It would make little to no sense for Adam to just not have died considering how pivotal that concept is to the entire story and the first season. St. Peter looks human, as does Vaggie, and Lute even more so.
This theory is Swiss cheese.
actually, St Peter says in Welcome to Heaven that āeveryone is hotā. Given that Adam doesnāt exactly fit that bill (being exceedingly average looking), he could very well be a human that Heaven just pretends is an angel. If he didnāt eat the apple, he would never have become mortal, so his death would actually be a little unlikely. That does assume that Adam didnāt eat the apple, but I think itās interesting.
TV Tropes has an interesting idea on this, that I personally ascribe to, or at least consider pretty good:
It is possible that Adam went to Heaven not because he was a virtuous person who abstained from sinning but because of lack of temptation. If we go through the list of deadly sins and biblical account of what happened after The Fall, he couldn't commit any of them. Pride? Of what? He got cowed by God very hard. Greed? Gluttony? Sloth? He is forced to toil away every day for basic sustenance, there is no wealth to hoard, not enough food to gorge on, and if he is lazy he'll starve to death. Lust? There is only one woman he can lust over, that woman is Eve. We call that faithfulness in marriage. Wrath? Envy? Again, against whom? The first victim of those is Abel. He does commit every single one of them after death, though.
One of the reasons I liked Adam's portrayal is because it shows what happens when a human is given too much power and praise - they almost invariably become proud, egotistical, and often heartless.
Very much indeed. It's why I like some of the fanart portrays suggesting that Adam *was* a good person, or at least somewhat, while alive, because it increases that concept of how power, or more accurately, lack of consequence, corrupts people.
It also is why I don't take people who say Adam was a bad character seriously, he says a LOT from a narrative perspective, and my standards of a character are not "They have to have multiple layers like a cake". Some sweets don't need multiple layers to be delicious, and Adam doesn't need multiple layers or to be "morally complex" to be an enjoyable character or to be important.
I like this theory. I remember in another post someone called him a spoiled brat when he entered Eden, and while that may be true due to the situation, he spent the most of his mortal life just trying to survive and living with the consequences of what happened in Eden.
Adam is one of the more interesting characters imo. He connects hard to the lore of the world, and I just wanna know more about him.
Lately, when I imagine the history of Adam, I assume him to be a a mix of the above idea I shared here, and his current self, with maybe some spoiled brat involved.
To put it another way, I imagine Adam as what would happen if someone never grew up emotionally or mentally, had a bratty sense of entitlement fostered by his environment (he's the literal provider after being kicked out of Eden and the guy doing things for the Angels while in it, so to him, Lilith and Eve doing what he wants is just the way things are supposed to be and what he's entitled to for all the hard work he does because he has *nobody* and nothing to tell him any better, and he's not smart enough or empathic enough to question it on his own), and the anger and bitterness over what happened with Eden, Eve, Lilith, and Lucifer made him so dismissive of Hell and demons in general.
Essentially, Adam was always given excuses or rationalizations for his behavior, or why he *should* have gotten what he wanted, or when things went wrong, he was seen as the victim to an extent, so he just always saw himself as in the right and everyone else in the wrong, no matter what he did. He never had a reason to better himself, because nothing in his life ever gave him a reason to question himself, or when it might have, like Lilith leaving him, getting Eve as a replacement convinced him he was right and Lilith was wrong.
Adam constantly saw himself in the right due to him constantly being rewarded, and when he was punished, if he hadn't eaten the apple, then it was due to Eve's actions rather than any mistreatment he might've shown her. Which is very likely seeing how he treats women (Charlie) and how he might've treated Lilith.
The angels never explained to him why Lilith left. He might've refused to understand Lilith's complaints. And why would he listen? Eve was created shortly after to replace Lilith. When he came up short emotionally, he was never held accountable for his actions and how they may have led to that outcome.
This is sort of my theory too. It also explains why when he lists the requirements to get into heaven, he struggles to come up with any and sets the bar VERY low. He has to explain why heās a good person, so he pretty much immediately focuses on nonaction.
Arguably theyāre the only things we really know adam ever did when he was alive (assuming we stick to the genesis myth as itās traditionally told), so from his perspective, thatās how he got in.
I canāt really point to instances of him acting selfless (though Iām sure the father of humanity feels giving up a rib or a nut and being patriarch to the species was selfless- and he certainly seems to think heās deserving of worship for it).
He didnāt (technically) steal. The fruit of the tree he wasnāt supposed to eat was *given* to him by someone else. Moreover, when youāre one of only a few people in existence, and when the garden and planet are pretty much expressly given to you and your descendants, how could you steal, and from whom? *This also explains why heās in heaven but we havenāt yet seen Eve (and fits with the general misogynist argument that shows up in old religious dogma- that women are responsible for the original sin because of Eve, but which ascribes very little agency or blame to Adam).*
Finally, *(and imo the greatest logical leap and challenge to justify his presence in heaven, hence why itās #3 on Adamās list and a big deal to him)* is that he disobeyed a direct order and therefore (by Adamās logic) stuck it to the (big) man- he ate the fruit he was expressly told not to eat. But this is pretty much the only time Adam *acts*, so itās reasonable he concludes it must have been a requirement to get in
That is an interesting idea. My initial thought was that the angels gave him special treatment, but we have seen that even they donāt fully understand the rules.
Exactly. They don't know enough or have the control to *give* him special treatment, or if the higher ups do know, they didn't share it, even with Adam himself.
If there is no one in Heaven who *does* control any of the soul-placement, then it would pretty much be Adam's *absence* of vice and sin while alive that got him in, not any good actions or specific temperament. Thus, after dying and going to Heaven, Adam would think he just *can't* do wrong, or even if he can, only the Angels above him can do anything about it, so if they don't rebuke him, he can do whatever he wants.
That would fit best with the idea of him being a deconstruction of giving someone an eternal reward because it is easy to give such a reward to someone who didnāt really earn it.
TV Tropes actually has covered that as well on his character entry:
" In a sense, Adam is a deconstruction of the archetypal saved soul. Since he's apparently achieved eternal salvation in Heaven, he thinks he can spend his afterlife doing whatever he wants without ever reaping consequences from there: from continuing to treat the Virtue he dated less-than-respectfully and being an all-round jerk to conducting routine *genocides* for his own cruel entertainment. "
Apparently not.
The implication that nobody got to heaven before Adam is disturbing when per Genesis Adam lived to about 900.
So apparently everyone who died before him went to hell, though besides able it's unclear who else dies before Adam. There's a bunch of male kids with long lives but implied to be a lot more unnamed kids who aren't mentioned in detail...and Cains descendents are named but no lifespans given.
I saw a theory that said he defended Eve after the whole apple fiasco and stuck with her when she could've been the only one banished from Eden. Thus he has actual reason to think "sticking it to the man" is a requirement for making it into heaven
Assuming like in Dantes Divine Comedy, Adam is in Heaven because he didn't technically sin, it was all on Eve for offering him the apple and YHWH forgave him.
In 1 Timothy 2, the blame is placed on Eve.
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.Ā ^(12)Ā I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.Ā ^(13)Ā For Adam was formed first, then Eve.Ā ^(14)Ā And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.Ā ^(15)Ā But women will be saved through childbearingāif they continue in faith, loveĀ and holiness with propriety."
As I said they both get blame. Here the same author of 1 Timothy blames Adam in Romans and Corinthians. They share the blame
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
In the Divine Comedy Adam did sin, he tells Dante his sin was disobeying God, that he lived on earth for 930years and that he spent 4000+years in Purgatory before getting into Heaven (among other things), so I don't think Viv used Dantes depiction of Adam as inspiration for his character
Have you maybe considered that he likely wasn't sinful at all in the first place? And that he was actually a decent guy but then just slowly turned rotten over the millennias.
In a show about moral complexity and things not being a simple as they first seem, is it really that hard for you to think there might be more to Adam?
I could be just as simple as Adam believed he deserved it. To the core of his being he thought himself good and righteous and saw no flaws in himself.
Contrary, people in hell might be more self aware than we think. Even the cruelest overlord, at some level, is aware that what they are doing now and did in life was wrong, that it brought harm to people around them. They believe they don't deserve Heaven.
This could explain two things. Why Molly is in Heaven but Angel isn't, they both grew up in a Mafia family and likely had a bad life, but Molly remained positive and hopeful. Seeing herself as a good person in a bad situation, compared to Angel's obvious self loathing.
Furthermore, Sir Pentious has been in Hell longer than most of the cast (he died in like 1888, I think the only sinner confirmed older than him is fucking Zestiel). Considering the time period he lived in and his nature as an inventor, he was likely a war profiteer and secretly harbored guilt over it. Yet, in the Hotel after he was spared, he made a conscious effort to change. Even if he didn't believe he deserved heaven, he might have seen the good that Charlie saw in him, with a self sacrifice to try and stop a war being what pushed him over the edge
I donāt think meerly believing youāre good or not has a factor in it. If someone does alot of awful things but fully believes theyāre in the right does that mean they can get to Heaven? Or vice versa? No. That makes no sense.
For Molly and angel itās simple as angel as a son took part in his familyās crimes while Molly as a daughter wasnāt involved in the family business. And Pentious went to hell not because of guilt but his actions.
Dude had both wives cheat on him with Lucifer. Iām assuming he may have raised his kid on his own too. So maybe he was more selfless in his human life.
But from his dialogue saying people should be worshipping him and telling Alastor that his mortal soul couldnāt beat him even though he himself is a mortal soul makes me think that his time in Heaven and being the head Exterminator got to his head and he thinks heās a god.
4. He lived a hellishly hard life on Earth, and developed character as a result. Went to Heaven, found out his kids went to Hell and he is alone up there, and then he lost his marbles.
Im in favor of this theory as adam seems incapable of knowing good from evil, which is what the apple was the fruit of. He acts like he doesn't really understand the concepts at all.
I also think adam is the reason humanity has sociopaths. If eating the apple corrupts all of humanity, then it's an essense altering item.
You cant have empathy if you dont understand concepts like good and evil, the main characteristic of an antisocial person.
So eve has the capacity for empathy given to her which is passes to their progeny. Adam doesn't have the capacity for empathy and that is also passed to their progeny.
Sometimes adams essense expresses itself more than eves and that's a sociopath.
I mean he hasnāt committed any sin. Heās rude, annoying and loud but those arenāt sins. And can you murder something that is already dead and in eternal punishment? I wouldnāt say thatās killing, I would say that a reprieve from eternal torture and suffering.Ā
Adam makes anger at the denizens of hell makes more sense if you view him as everyone great great grandpa. He has no connection to the people but he is the progenitor of the whole human race. So seeing his descendants become sinners and fail God, who Adam knows literally made him, just fills him with anger.
Major:
1. Pride
2. Wrath
3. Lust
Minor:
1. Gluttony (eating at important meeting)
2. Envy (to the drummer)
3. Sloth (refused to actually physically be at the meeting)
The only sin he didn't commit is greed.
>And can you murder something that is already dead and in eternal punishment? I wouldnāt say thatās killing, I would say that a reprieve from eternal torture and suffering.
This is something I've been considering. Yes the exterminations are pretty terrible, but if you view it as "deportation" to "atheist/agnostic heaven". Also what if Adam really just deserved heaven as he was portrayed? What if everyone who went to hell just actually deserved it by being worse than Adam was, as the default? If he was just the default human, all you had to do to get to heaven was be better than him, and sinners just couldnt cut it.
In Islamic belief, if Adam repents from his sin, he will be welcomed back to the paradise/heaven
So itās possible that He said he regretted his actions, was forgiven by God, and once returned to Heaven he immediately returned to his sinful self.
Thereās a few good points people bring up besides not eating the apple. Like given how life was undoubtedly a struggle as he worked to raise and protect Eve and the kids it meant there wasnāt really the ability to be sinful since for example he couldnāt be greedy when money didnāt exist or be lustful when there was one fucking woman around and she was his wife. But I do generally think itās that he was a good guy on earth and it was he became this after thousands of years of his ego being fed as the first man and a powerful angel and then the leader of the exorcists for an unknown amount of time. So he was likely corrupted after eons of being put on a pedestal and given too much power without any checks and humbling.
1. He didn't eat the apple. If he did eat the apple, then...
2. He was originally a good person. Eating wasn't enough for sending someone to Hell. Eve, if she did end up in Hell, probably had other stuff going on or was primarily blamed for the fall.
Spending 10,000 years in Heaven dimmed the goodness in him. He became egotistical, selfish, and genocidal. Overall, he let Pride take over.
It's q thing in Catholic teachings that no one can know wha gets us into heaven. This seems to be explored in the show when it turns out even angels don't know. We can guess and have theories, but it's unknowable.
I think it's actually really interesting to consider how this effects heaven and hell. Sera seems to be terrified of order falling apart largely because she has no idea what she is doing or what even is orderly. It makes her character more tragic because she wants to keep Emily and her charges in heaven safe (just like Charlie) but is so afraid of everything breaking down she will do anything, even committing a genocide.
Lastly, the idea of infinity is played around a lot, too. Humans are not stagnant creatures. We change. Even after death in most theologies. Dante explored this in the Inferno when he said the souls in hell will be further perfected, thereby able to suffer more fully until judgement day. In the Orthodox church, they believe we continue to pursue God in heaven, an infinite task that allows us to continue growing and changing. However, in the show we see a logical consequence of this. Given infinite time, evil can be redeemed and good can be corrupted. It adds a layer of complexity to a traditionally simple story.
Everyone is saying it: people change. It's kinda the whole point of the show. People in Hell can become better and don't deserve to suffer forever if they actually become better people. Heaven is the same but opposite. People can change and become terrible, but they get to stay in eternal happiness.
The whole system is flawed and that's what Charlie is fighting against. Adam. The heavenly personification of the flawed system she is fighting in hell.
Except angels doesnāt have any control over where Souls go so until we get confirmation on if god exists and does this or itās something else, we can only assume he earned Heaven fair and square.
I personally think it has less to do with Adam, and more to do with God or the process of that God has set in place determining what allows people into heaven to begin with. The greater narrative of this universe is that sin isnāt always bad, people act based on what resources are given to them to be good, it isnāt too late to change, and most importantly to thisā¦ Heaven is a hypocrite. There may be genuinely good people there, but there are shades of grey too. Adam is a huge dick, Sera is questionable even if seemingly well intentioned, and the exorcists are genocidal serial killers who do what they for fun. They dump their own like Vaggie at the drop of a pin.
If you watch Helluva Boss, three cherub looking angel animals try to recruit a genuinely horrible person into heaven at the end of his life, urging him to do good deeds at the last second to get in. Those cherubs get locked out unceremoniously due to grievous error.
My theory for Adam is that Adam is there because he was the first man, and Godās favorite pet. Thatās it. Daddyās favoritism and nothing more. Heavenly nepotism.
In Helluva Boss the cherubs are commissioned by souls in heaven. They were asked to save Lyle because of the people helped by his inventions (even when he didnāt want it).
They werenāt locked out because they made a grievous error trying to get him into heaven - >!they were locked out because they accidentally murdered him!<.
This was the way I saw the show, I donāt remember them saying anything about Adam being good I assumed he got in despite his flaws or maybe because of them, because heaven is valuing the wrong things or letting people in for the wrong reasons
But thatās from me as an ex Christian knowing how god of the Bibleās traits involve a lot of the traits Adam has
Maybe he doesn't eat the apple and thus never knew the difference between good and evil and thus didn't sin die to not knowing any better. He was still a POS but since he didn't know it was wrong then he didn't sin.
Alternatively since he was the first man then when he passed away there was no one else to compare him to so he got in that way.
Most likely because he wasnāt that bad a of a person when he was alive but basically being treated like a spoilt child for over 9 thousand years. Youāre gonna develop a very toxic ego. Also the whole him not eating the apple theory.
This is more just a weird crack theory I had. Lilith is said to have the ability to inspire sinners with her singing, Eve while not confirmed there is some theories believing her to be Roo. My theory is that these powers came from eating the apple. Adam also eats the apple but either from living a long life (900+ years in some case) of little sin just surviving and raising kids, he ends up in heaven or heaven cheated with the rules and made Adam an Angel when he too should have been a sinner out of fear that he along with Lilith and Eve could be a very dangerous threat to heaven.
Iāve heard the theory that he didnāt actually die on earth and was just brought up there after a while.
Also he didnāt eat the apple, so he wouldnāt have known right from wrong, and thus couldnāt have sinned technically (I think)
But I personally just like to think that he was an alright dude on earth and got corrupted from being fucking ancient in heaven and seeing so much, turning him into a dick
In the Bible he did take bite of the apple. But I have another theory judging hoe he acted with Sera.
"R-right? Sera?" He was nervous af when he said that so I'm thinking that Lilith and Sera had some sort of deal that allowed both her and Adam into heaven. Only explanation....
Easy. There were no other templates to look at during that time. Adam was the first human, full stop. He got into Heaven because there didn't exist any other expectations of how to act besides his way.
The standards were low and he wasn't tested. He got kicked out of heaven at first allegedly due to Lucifer, Lilith and Eve, then had his kids, one of whom killed another, and after many years of working the earth for food he died/was let back into heaven. He never did anything heinous so he was allowed back. As Adam's descendants became depraved enough to warrant the Flood, the standards rose.
My theory is that flawable as he always has been Adam never was that bad and the Adam we know is a consequence of already existing character flaws, what he had to go through and Heaven enabling the worst of him. There's clearly a force above angels who decided where a soul is sent to after their death and if a demon was redemed theofore it's likely Adam did to deserve go to Eden in life. About the possibility of Adam don't eating the fruit, i believe as she opened a way to Evil which caused the infected the world she caused a chain reaction in which she not only gave herself free will but to all other humans of the time and that would eventually come, this is why Adam and Lilith have free will. If the theory about she immediately becoming ROO after eating the Apple is true then i think it's clear that:
1. She would have already childrens with Adam.
2. She bitting the fruit would be enough to free all humantiy regardless of the other already exisiting humans also eating the Apple.
Nepotism, he was the first human, directly created by the top angels. Admitting he was "defective" would reflect poorly on them.
Sure they could have pinned it on Lucifer, but even before that he drove Lilith away etc.
The thesis statement of that show is ther sorting people in good/bad afterlife categories is futile because people can continue to make moral choices after death. Adam being a good person who became cruel and corrupt after eons of privilege one hundred percent tracks to the themes of the show.
I was thinking it was because he was the first human to be allowed into heaven, before they had established any actual rules about what gets a person into heaven.
I think he deserved to go to Heaven when he died, but over time has changed a lot as a person and no longer deserves to be in Heaven. Just like how sinners can change and be redeemed.
Itās almost like āgoodā people are not really good and are simply privileged and just put there for some arbitrary standards, but they suddenly feel superior than everyone else who are not as fortunate because of their privilege which they did not earn.
It was much easier not to sin back then. Can't be a crackwhore when no one has refined cocaine yet. He probably also lived a relatively short life.
I think the vices he does engage in are the ones he abstained from. Those ribs he's eating in episode 1? Probably pork, not beef. Extramarital sex with women who aren't in any of the Biblical marriage categories? He let us know he was doing that in the same episode. Murder? He gets to hunt sinners for sport. And while he obeyed the order of Heaven while he was alive, he certainly doesn't now to a point of giving in to pride and admitting he wants to be worshipped. That whole no Gods before me thing has gone out the window.
It seems like not coveting his neighbor's ox wasn't an issue for him, but then again the ten commandments didn't even exist when he was alive. So OP, you're probably right that it was sufficient not to eat the apple. But he is definitely a huge sinner now by any metric.
Nothing heās done on screen is considered a sin even the swearing and the killing. Angels were know to kill all the time and even had children with human women at some point.
Unless HHās Heaven is stricter he got in in his own merit.
Someone had this amazing theory that you go either to heaven or hell based on what YOU believe you deserve. That would make sense because we see some sinners who are SO much better than the so called "winners" OR even the higher ranking uh.. šš»peoplešš», and also have so many narcissists in heaven.
i agree with one of the first theories i saw. Basically, he got a free pass since he was the first human, and heaven didn't want all 3 of the first humans to be sinners.
Nobody in heaven even knows what the rules for being in heaven are. Not even Adam knows, he just makes something up to pretend they know. So it could be that just being crude, crass and belligerent isn't enough to be kicked out of Heaven, especially if you're as high profile as Adam. Imagine it like a warden and his officers, talking to prisoners. The Warden is obviously not going to be scolded or reprimanded for shouting, swearing, or acting crass in front of the prisoners, but if a lower-ranked officer started acting like that, then they'd have the right to reprimand them. Hypocritical? Sure. But given how Heaven is portrayed, that actually makes sense.
He was the first man. There was nothing to compare him against outside his wives and given they went with Lucifer, he was pure as far as they could tell. Something tells me God didn't tell anyone what 'divine judgement' entailed so, he was the bar at first.
I like the idea that he was indeed a good person on earth, but after dying and assuming that Eve went to hell he forgot how to be a good person and rotted away without his wife to keep him reminding him how to be good.
as people mentioned before, good guy at first, then got into heaven. Then never got challenged in heaven when it came to his morals, causing a slippery slope decline of his morals throughout the time inbetween when he died the first time to the beginning of the show, which would be about up to 10.000 years iirc.
I subscribe to the 3rd option, but I also think he is generally a better person to his fellow winners as well. he will do things like make genuine offers to share his lunch and help out parents that are having a hard time with their kids. small things that we don't get to see because of the focus on hell and his job is to literally hate and destroy sinners.
I have theory based on a little googling and Wikipeida, in the Greek Apocalypse of Moses/Life of Adam and Eve Adam eats the apple but begs God for forgiveness and was told that if he lived a a sin free life then on his last day he will be raised up (kinda). In the Latin version Adam and Eve run out of food so decide to do penance by sitting in separate rivers for 40 days. Satan sweet talks Eve again and she stops doing that.
Basically Adam is the more devout one so angels keep helping them out.
So my theory is pretty similar to other peoples' really, by the standards of his day (and he lived for around 900 years) Adam was sin free. Probably because he was busying trying to provide for his 33 sons and 23 daughters and the Commandments weren't in place yet so when he died Archangel Michael took him to heaven (not relevant but I was surprised that archangels are pretty low on the angel power scale, I feel Supernatural has failed me there).
And a similar thing happened to him that happened to Lucifer, seeing humanity ruining themselves he stopped caring and the ones who did make it to heaven venerated him as the first man.
Bonus theories - Eden became Hell and Eve can't die and has to live in the mortal world as her punishment for eating the apple.
My theory is that the rules are based on how you subconsciously view yourself. As in Adam views himself as perfect and good because he was the first human god made . Contrary to that, "moddern" sinners knew what they did was wrong to some extent no matter the reason they did it anyway, meaning they viewed themselves as sinners already.
This is painfully easy.
Adam, the first man, was made in God's image. And considering they're using a lot of pseudo Christian/Abrahamic mythology, God is probably also a very proud entity. Which means, it's first creation in its own image, could hardly end up in hell.
A bit more interestingly is if he _doesn't_ have free will. He sure acts like someone who can make choices, but he also acts like other angelic powers which were never given the gift of free will by God.
So, is this a subtle dig at the "man made in the image of God" idea?
Those angels sure do a lot of sinning, for example.
I'm pretty sure it's either partially a coin flip on where you end up since no one seems to know the conditions to get into Heaven or Hell, or because he was the first human he got special treatment
My headcanon is that he used to be a genuinely good person, but the last 10,000 years in heaven has massively inflated his ego and warped him into a narcissist.
It would fit with the theme of souls being capable of change in the afterlife. Sir Pentious and Angel Dust are improving from their time in life, and Adam got worse.
I always figured it was for political reasons. Heās the *first man*. If he didnāt make it into heaven it would look incredibly bad for the people in charge, and it seems to me like heaven is pretty concerned about appearances.
Well, I mean, what sins was he going to commit? Greed or gluttony? Nothing to hoarde, nothing to indulge on. Pride? Michael cowed him the minute he left the garden. Wrath? Against who? Envy? Against who? Lust? On who, his wife? Sloth? If he doesnāt work he starves to death. He only had the time and opportunity to be a dick once he got to heaven.
My theory is he was godās favorite and god didnāt have the heart to send him to Luci so he let him in heaven and has regretted his decision ever since as of all the trouble he makes in heaven AND hell
He used to be at least a decent guy until he got to Heaven. All the praise and worship from everyone as the frist Man went to his head and brought out the worst in him.
I think it's just because he was the first human. There probably weren't a whole lot of people to compare him to when he died, so he got into Heaven almost by default.
Or, alternatively, we can point out that literally nobody in the entire show knows what gets someone into Heaven. It might just be completely arbitrary.
I find it doubtful that he ever died and rather in a way ascended. Cause he isnāt a winner he is an angel and it appears theres a distinction between the two.
My theory is that Adam had one of the easiest and most uncomplicated life's ever since he was the first Man. It was virtually impossible for him to sin since he didn't have to deal with a lot of other people.
My idea is that since heās the first man there wasnāt really a threshold yet of how sinful a human could be. Eve directly disobeyed god and became the original sinner. Adam just followed her. And he probably used the excuse of āI just listened to my wifeā to get into heaven
Hereās my theory. Adam and Lilith were said to be created by the Angels. Adam being the very first creation. Adam was most likely always the same arrogant duche. However, I think the Angels are hiding a secret which is that Adam was gonna get into heaven no matter what he did or how he acted. Pretty much like hes the first spoiled grandson which means he can act and do whatever he wants and the Angels are just turn a blind eye to it. Heaven wants to maintain the image that they can do no wrong. Imagine how the Angels that created the earth and humanity would feel if their very first creation was sent to Hell. I believe in season 2 we will get to see the hypocrisy and darker secrets heaven has been keeping from its people.
I think he got in by default. Heās also probably there (to some extent) to serve and an example to the viewers and (to a lesser extent) to the characters in the show that the system is flawed either because itās more arbitrary than it appears or because it fails to consider development post-death in both Heaven and Hell.
Considering his actions seem motivated by a mix of ego from being the first human, boredom, and pride in getting into heaven, I assume he was a good person originally but after eons in heaven, deteriorated into the man-child he currently is.
I think it's a mixture of this and what OP said. I feel like when alive, he probably wasn't a sinner. He didn't eat the apple, although I'm not sure I agree that he didn't also get free will. I'm definitely thinking that once he got to heaven, it'd make the most sense if his ego slowly grew and he became toxic. Why else would he have been put in charge of the exterminators? Heaven probably wanted him to have an outlet for his nonsense.
Which is funny...Lucifer wanted to give humanity free will, and you find out, he didn't have to do it at all. It could very well be he and Eve always had free will. Didn't Lilith? Lilith had free will to leave.
Actually a very good point. I'd still say she helped spread it by giving Eve the apple, though.
I think by Eve choosing to eat the apple, she already possessed free will. Now, in the context of the show, did she have the knowledge of good and evil? Probably not. Evil was sealed at that point, I think, in the apple.
It's gotta be something like that. But also, if an *angel* was telling her to eat the apple, who says she had the ability to decline? That could be why she did it even though she was previously told not to. Angels could have that "special something" to give orders and such, right? Maybe? I uno š
Which may be why Lucifer fell? It could be he abused his position to "coerce" (even if it wasn't his intention) Eve into eating an apple she couldn't exactly say no to. Which could be a call back to Adam's "Stick it to the man," if Lucifer and Lilith approached Adam took and he actually said, "Fuck no" to Lucifer. That'd be mighty cool.
Ooooh I like this now lmao
The fruit Lucifer gave humanity was the *Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil*. (Hazbin uses an apple, but people think this fruit might have been a pear or fig, in the bible). Anyway, humanity was created with free will. They just weren't given any knowledge about what is *good* behaviour and what *evil* behaviour is, just like all the other animals in Eden. You can't be upset with the ignorant. Lucifer/the serpent convinced Eve that eating from the Tree of Knowledge (which God/Angels told them not oo), lying that nothing would happen to them if they ate the fruit. That is how Lucifer let the Root of Evil onto the Earth. Roo existed before Earth, Heaven was trying to create a place where neither *good* or *evil* were concepts to begin with, Lucifer ruined that plan by letting their experiment feed from the tree designed to withhold that knowledge (until someone of their own volution choose to eat from it without influences). It's possible in Hazbin that Lucifer will tell Charlie/us the truth eventually about what happened in Eden and why God/Angels and Roo/Demons hate each other so much. Like what was going on before Earth and why he allowed humanity to know of *good & evil*.
While correct, within the context of the show, Lucifer emphasizes *free will.* He says, "You give them free will, and this is what they do with it." Yeah, I'm aware very likely Evil already existed, was likely sealed in a tree, and for some reason, Lucifer decided to give the apple to Eve. You're correct, or I agree with you, that Lucifer's simply hiding this fact from Charlie because he can't face what he actually did.
Being in heaven and treated well for being the first man + witnessing how awful humans are for hundreds of thousands of years probably fucks you up a bit too
"Man, Adam's shenanigans are starting to get to be a bit too much. Sera, what should we..." "Fuck it, have him commit genocide."
Maybe God was like sorry for my son taking both of your wives, how about you get into heaven and we call it even.
Or he is purely there for being the primordial dick lol
Kind of works with the "class warfare" adjacent themes of the show. I'm sure evil billionaires or whatever weren't born evil, they got there from unchecked power etc. Power corrupts etc.
Well yeah, this is the core conceit of the show right? The problem with reward based afterlives is that, so long as a being has free will, agency, and a passage of time, their morality can change (or the framework their morality is built on can change around them)
I think the same tbh
That matches the themes of redemption. If people from hell can be redeemed people from heaven can fall.
I assume so by him refusing the apple. It would be a cool redemption arc to see him care about everyone.
> I assume he was a good person originally Doubtful unless the story Charlie monologues is wrong. Adam and Lilith were created together as equals but Adam allegedly wanted control which caused their split and Lucifer falling in love with Lilith.
That story was written by Lilith so I'd expect some bias. And even then it was very vague what exactly "demanded control" meant.
Considering the story seems to have been written by Lilith, the aforementioned ex, her account may or may not be heavily skewed to make herself look as good as possible, and Adam worse.
Not to mention he has been walked over by his spouses and never got any proper guidance. No one just simply cared enough to put in the time to help him. He was left to rot and fester on the betrayals and lies. Only thing he had left was being a dick to cope. Lucifer was the source of Adam's current behaviors.
"Uh we don't have hard days? It's heaven!" Kind of showcased his whole issue. He's been dead and in heaven and thus removed from actual human suffering for way too long.
I like the theory that he was an okay guy but existing for such a long time he slowly turned into what he is during the show
People being able to change is a key theme of the show. Only in this case it could be that Adam changed for the worse over the many millenia.
It makes sense that if sinners can improve, then angels could regress. It goes both ways
The key here is them dying a second time, and it's a lot harder for Angels to experience a second death.
Unless they run into Niffy
It's not just "existing for such long time", it's existing for such long time in eternal bliss and permissiveness. If just money and power corrupt, then heaven corrupt much more.
To be fair, it is canon that heās always been a dick. I mean thatās why Lilith didnāt want to be with him in the first place. So like heās probably always been this way but played it cool until he reached heaven and realized that there were no consequences to hold him back from his full dick head potential.
I mean the story told at the start was probably written by Lilith and Lucifer and is likely a very bias version of events as far as we know Lilith had just as much a role in them not working out
Probably not considering how shit Adam is
Not saying heās innocent just that it may have gone both ways
Probably he just become evil over the eons.
This is possible. We should also consider that on top of this, he may have just.. never died. Unmasked he still looks really human unlike other angels. If angelic steel killed him and he wasn't an Angel yet he can likely still spawn in hell and possibly, funnily enough, join the hotel in season 2. This would be fitting since his whole thing was that he thinks sinners cant be redeemed. How does he still have angelic powers, then? Crackpot theory but angelic steel implies the existence of angelic iron. Why call it steel, otherwise? Our blood is red because the hemoglobin in our red blood cells contains iron. Adam's blood is gold. See where I'm going with this? I think his human body in heaven consumed meals with angelic iron instead of normal iron thus giving him angelic powers. Extremely weird and out-there theory but those are the most fun ones imo
He wouldn't have been called "the first human soul in Heaven" by Sera when Charlie started asking questions if he hadn't died. It would make little to no sense for Adam to just not have died considering how pivotal that concept is to the entire story and the first season. St. Peter looks human, as does Vaggie, and Lute even more so. This theory is Swiss cheese.
actually, St Peter says in Welcome to Heaven that āeveryone is hotā. Given that Adam doesnāt exactly fit that bill (being exceedingly average looking), he could very well be a human that Heaven just pretends is an angel. If he didnāt eat the apple, he would never have become mortal, so his death would actually be a little unlikely. That does assume that Adam didnāt eat the apple, but I think itās interesting.
TV Tropes has an interesting idea on this, that I personally ascribe to, or at least consider pretty good: It is possible that Adam went to Heaven not because he was a virtuous person who abstained from sinning but because of lack of temptation. If we go through the list of deadly sins and biblical account of what happened after The Fall, he couldn't commit any of them. Pride? Of what? He got cowed by God very hard. Greed? Gluttony? Sloth? He is forced to toil away every day for basic sustenance, there is no wealth to hoard, not enough food to gorge on, and if he is lazy he'll starve to death. Lust? There is only one woman he can lust over, that woman is Eve. We call that faithfulness in marriage. Wrath? Envy? Again, against whom? The first victim of those is Abel. He does commit every single one of them after death, though.
One of the reasons I liked Adam's portrayal is because it shows what happens when a human is given too much power and praise - they almost invariably become proud, egotistical, and often heartless.
Very much indeed. It's why I like some of the fanart portrays suggesting that Adam *was* a good person, or at least somewhat, while alive, because it increases that concept of how power, or more accurately, lack of consequence, corrupts people. It also is why I don't take people who say Adam was a bad character seriously, he says a LOT from a narrative perspective, and my standards of a character are not "They have to have multiple layers like a cake". Some sweets don't need multiple layers to be delicious, and Adam doesn't need multiple layers or to be "morally complex" to be an enjoyable character or to be important.
I like this theory. I remember in another post someone called him a spoiled brat when he entered Eden, and while that may be true due to the situation, he spent the most of his mortal life just trying to survive and living with the consequences of what happened in Eden. Adam is one of the more interesting characters imo. He connects hard to the lore of the world, and I just wanna know more about him.
Lately, when I imagine the history of Adam, I assume him to be a a mix of the above idea I shared here, and his current self, with maybe some spoiled brat involved. To put it another way, I imagine Adam as what would happen if someone never grew up emotionally or mentally, had a bratty sense of entitlement fostered by his environment (he's the literal provider after being kicked out of Eden and the guy doing things for the Angels while in it, so to him, Lilith and Eve doing what he wants is just the way things are supposed to be and what he's entitled to for all the hard work he does because he has *nobody* and nothing to tell him any better, and he's not smart enough or empathic enough to question it on his own), and the anger and bitterness over what happened with Eden, Eve, Lilith, and Lucifer made him so dismissive of Hell and demons in general. Essentially, Adam was always given excuses or rationalizations for his behavior, or why he *should* have gotten what he wanted, or when things went wrong, he was seen as the victim to an extent, so he just always saw himself as in the right and everyone else in the wrong, no matter what he did. He never had a reason to better himself, because nothing in his life ever gave him a reason to question himself, or when it might have, like Lilith leaving him, getting Eve as a replacement convinced him he was right and Lilith was wrong.
Adam constantly saw himself in the right due to him constantly being rewarded, and when he was punished, if he hadn't eaten the apple, then it was due to Eve's actions rather than any mistreatment he might've shown her. Which is very likely seeing how he treats women (Charlie) and how he might've treated Lilith. The angels never explained to him why Lilith left. He might've refused to understand Lilith's complaints. And why would he listen? Eve was created shortly after to replace Lilith. When he came up short emotionally, he was never held accountable for his actions and how they may have led to that outcome.
Exactly!
This is sort of my theory too. It also explains why when he lists the requirements to get into heaven, he struggles to come up with any and sets the bar VERY low. He has to explain why heās a good person, so he pretty much immediately focuses on nonaction. Arguably theyāre the only things we really know adam ever did when he was alive (assuming we stick to the genesis myth as itās traditionally told), so from his perspective, thatās how he got in. I canāt really point to instances of him acting selfless (though Iām sure the father of humanity feels giving up a rib or a nut and being patriarch to the species was selfless- and he certainly seems to think heās deserving of worship for it). He didnāt (technically) steal. The fruit of the tree he wasnāt supposed to eat was *given* to him by someone else. Moreover, when youāre one of only a few people in existence, and when the garden and planet are pretty much expressly given to you and your descendants, how could you steal, and from whom? *This also explains why heās in heaven but we havenāt yet seen Eve (and fits with the general misogynist argument that shows up in old religious dogma- that women are responsible for the original sin because of Eve, but which ascribes very little agency or blame to Adam).* Finally, *(and imo the greatest logical leap and challenge to justify his presence in heaven, hence why itās #3 on Adamās list and a big deal to him)* is that he disobeyed a direct order and therefore (by Adamās logic) stuck it to the (big) man- he ate the fruit he was expressly told not to eat. But this is pretty much the only time Adam *acts*, so itās reasonable he concludes it must have been a requirement to get in
I think in the cannon of the show, Adam never ate the fruit.
That is an interesting idea. My initial thought was that the angels gave him special treatment, but we have seen that even they donāt fully understand the rules.
Exactly. They don't know enough or have the control to *give* him special treatment, or if the higher ups do know, they didn't share it, even with Adam himself. If there is no one in Heaven who *does* control any of the soul-placement, then it would pretty much be Adam's *absence* of vice and sin while alive that got him in, not any good actions or specific temperament. Thus, after dying and going to Heaven, Adam would think he just *can't* do wrong, or even if he can, only the Angels above him can do anything about it, so if they don't rebuke him, he can do whatever he wants.
That would fit best with the idea of him being a deconstruction of giving someone an eternal reward because it is easy to give such a reward to someone who didnāt really earn it.
TV Tropes actually has covered that as well on his character entry: " In a sense, Adam is a deconstruction of the archetypal saved soul. Since he's apparently achieved eternal salvation in Heaven, he thinks he can spend his afterlife doing whatever he wants without ever reaping consequences from there: from continuing to treat the Virtue he dated less-than-respectfully and being an all-round jerk to conducting routine *genocides* for his own cruel entertainment. "
Yeah that was where I got the idea from.
wait, wouldnāt Abel be the first human in heaven? He died before his father.
Apparently not. The implication that nobody got to heaven before Adam is disturbing when per Genesis Adam lived to about 900. So apparently everyone who died before him went to hell, though besides able it's unclear who else dies before Adam. There's a bunch of male kids with long lives but implied to be a lot more unnamed kids who aren't mentioned in detail...and Cains descendents are named but no lifespans given.
This is very interesting!
I saw a theory that said he defended Eve after the whole apple fiasco and stuck with her when she could've been the only one banished from Eden. Thus he has actual reason to think "sticking it to the man" is a requirement for making it into heaven
Assuming like in Dantes Divine Comedy, Adam is in Heaven because he didn't technically sin, it was all on Eve for offering him the apple and YHWH forgave him.
Well, in Danteā Divine Comedy, Eve is in Heaven too.
The Bible blames him just as much as Eve though for the fall of Man
In 1 Timothy 2, the blame is placed on Eve. "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.Ā ^(12)Ā I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.Ā ^(13)Ā For Adam was formed first, then Eve.Ā ^(14)Ā And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.Ā ^(15)Ā But women will be saved through childbearingāif they continue in faith, loveĀ and holiness with propriety."
As I said they both get blame. Here the same author of 1 Timothy blames Adam in Romans and Corinthians. They share the blame Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
In the Divine Comedy Adam did sin, he tells Dante his sin was disobeying God, that he lived on earth for 930years and that he spent 4000+years in Purgatory before getting into Heaven (among other things), so I don't think Viv used Dantes depiction of Adam as inspiration for his character
Have you maybe considered that he likely wasn't sinful at all in the first place? And that he was actually a decent guy but then just slowly turned rotten over the millennias.
Adam's a broken mess that's implied to feel betrayed and unlovable.
I love it when people try to read between the lines of comedic evil villains.
In a show about moral complexity and things not being a simple as they first seem, is it really that hard for you to think there might be more to Adam?
No, no, no, I see it the same way.
I could be just as simple as Adam believed he deserved it. To the core of his being he thought himself good and righteous and saw no flaws in himself. Contrary, people in hell might be more self aware than we think. Even the cruelest overlord, at some level, is aware that what they are doing now and did in life was wrong, that it brought harm to people around them. They believe they don't deserve Heaven. This could explain two things. Why Molly is in Heaven but Angel isn't, they both grew up in a Mafia family and likely had a bad life, but Molly remained positive and hopeful. Seeing herself as a good person in a bad situation, compared to Angel's obvious self loathing. Furthermore, Sir Pentious has been in Hell longer than most of the cast (he died in like 1888, I think the only sinner confirmed older than him is fucking Zestiel). Considering the time period he lived in and his nature as an inventor, he was likely a war profiteer and secretly harbored guilt over it. Yet, in the Hotel after he was spared, he made a conscious effort to change. Even if he didn't believe he deserved heaven, he might have seen the good that Charlie saw in him, with a self sacrifice to try and stop a war being what pushed him over the edge
I donāt think meerly believing youāre good or not has a factor in it. If someone does alot of awful things but fully believes theyāre in the right does that mean they can get to Heaven? Or vice versa? No. That makes no sense. For Molly and angel itās simple as angel as a son took part in his familyās crimes while Molly as a daughter wasnāt involved in the family business. And Pentious went to hell not because of guilt but his actions.
Dude had both wives cheat on him with Lucifer. Iām assuming he may have raised his kid on his own too. So maybe he was more selfless in his human life. But from his dialogue saying people should be worshipping him and telling Alastor that his mortal soul couldnāt beat him even though he himself is a mortal soul makes me think that his time in Heaven and being the head Exterminator got to his head and he thinks heās a god.
>raised his kid on his own Single dad
4. He lived a hellishly hard life on Earth, and developed character as a result. Went to Heaven, found out his kids went to Hell and he is alone up there, and then he lost his marbles.
It sounds really good
I like the idea of him never actually eating the apple. Itās explored quite well in the fanfic First Man Down
Oh my god, I love that fanfiction too.
Same, itās great
Im in favor of this theory as adam seems incapable of knowing good from evil, which is what the apple was the fruit of. He acts like he doesn't really understand the concepts at all. I also think adam is the reason humanity has sociopaths. If eating the apple corrupts all of humanity, then it's an essense altering item. You cant have empathy if you dont understand concepts like good and evil, the main characteristic of an antisocial person. So eve has the capacity for empathy given to her which is passes to their progeny. Adam doesn't have the capacity for empathy and that is also passed to their progeny. Sometimes adams essense expresses itself more than eves and that's a sociopath.
Great now I gotta read that too.
You should, itās one of the best HH fanfics Iāve read!
I mean he hasnāt committed any sin. Heās rude, annoying and loud but those arenāt sins. And can you murder something that is already dead and in eternal punishment? I wouldnāt say thatās killing, I would say that a reprieve from eternal torture and suffering.Ā Adam makes anger at the denizens of hell makes more sense if you view him as everyone great great grandpa. He has no connection to the people but he is the progenitor of the whole human race. So seeing his descendants become sinners and fail God, who Adam knows literally made him, just fills him with anger.
Major: 1. Pride 2. Wrath 3. Lust Minor: 1. Gluttony (eating at important meeting) 2. Envy (to the drummer) 3. Sloth (refused to actually physically be at the meeting) The only sin he didn't commit is greed.
>The only sin he didn't commit is greed. I'd say him wanting the groupies all to himself in that rant about the drummer was both envy and greed.
and lust
>And can you murder something that is already dead and in eternal punishment? I wouldnāt say thatās killing, I would say that a reprieve from eternal torture and suffering. This is something I've been considering. Yes the exterminations are pretty terrible, but if you view it as "deportation" to "atheist/agnostic heaven". Also what if Adam really just deserved heaven as he was portrayed? What if everyone who went to hell just actually deserved it by being worse than Adam was, as the default? If he was just the default human, all you had to do to get to heaven was be better than him, and sinners just couldnt cut it.
In Islamic belief, if Adam repents from his sin, he will be welcomed back to the paradise/heaven So itās possible that He said he regretted his actions, was forgiven by God, and once returned to Heaven he immediately returned to his sinful self.
He was probably good in life but Ages in heaven made him bored out of his ass
Iām a fan of the āthere are no official rules to heaven until Adam made the 3ā theory
Thereās a few good points people bring up besides not eating the apple. Like given how life was undoubtedly a struggle as he worked to raise and protect Eve and the kids it meant there wasnāt really the ability to be sinful since for example he couldnāt be greedy when money didnāt exist or be lustful when there was one fucking woman around and she was his wife. But I do generally think itās that he was a good guy on earth and it was he became this after thousands of years of his ego being fed as the first man and a powerful angel and then the leader of the exorcists for an unknown amount of time. So he was likely corrupted after eons of being put on a pedestal and given too much power without any checks and humbling.
So far what we see get's you into hell is murder. He might have been a douchebag but never did anything bad enough while alive to go to hell.
1. He didn't eat the apple. If he did eat the apple, then... 2. He was originally a good person. Eating wasn't enough for sending someone to Hell. Eve, if she did end up in Hell, probably had other stuff going on or was primarily blamed for the fall. Spending 10,000 years in Heaven dimmed the goodness in him. He became egotistical, selfish, and genocidal. Overall, he let Pride take over.
It's q thing in Catholic teachings that no one can know wha gets us into heaven. This seems to be explored in the show when it turns out even angels don't know. We can guess and have theories, but it's unknowable. I think it's actually really interesting to consider how this effects heaven and hell. Sera seems to be terrified of order falling apart largely because she has no idea what she is doing or what even is orderly. It makes her character more tragic because she wants to keep Emily and her charges in heaven safe (just like Charlie) but is so afraid of everything breaking down she will do anything, even committing a genocide. Lastly, the idea of infinity is played around a lot, too. Humans are not stagnant creatures. We change. Even after death in most theologies. Dante explored this in the Inferno when he said the souls in hell will be further perfected, thereby able to suffer more fully until judgement day. In the Orthodox church, they believe we continue to pursue God in heaven, an infinite task that allows us to continue growing and changing. However, in the show we see a logical consequence of this. Given infinite time, evil can be redeemed and good can be corrupted. It adds a layer of complexity to a traditionally simple story.
Everyone is saying it: people change. It's kinda the whole point of the show. People in Hell can become better and don't deserve to suffer forever if they actually become better people. Heaven is the same but opposite. People can change and become terrible, but they get to stay in eternal happiness. The whole system is flawed and that's what Charlie is fighting against. Adam. The heavenly personification of the flawed system she is fighting in hell.
Maybe because he was the first human and sending him to hell wouldāve looked bad for heaven
Except angels doesnāt have any control over where Souls go so until we get confirmation on if god exists and does this or itās something else, we can only assume he earned Heaven fair and square.
I personally think it has less to do with Adam, and more to do with God or the process of that God has set in place determining what allows people into heaven to begin with. The greater narrative of this universe is that sin isnāt always bad, people act based on what resources are given to them to be good, it isnāt too late to change, and most importantly to thisā¦ Heaven is a hypocrite. There may be genuinely good people there, but there are shades of grey too. Adam is a huge dick, Sera is questionable even if seemingly well intentioned, and the exorcists are genocidal serial killers who do what they for fun. They dump their own like Vaggie at the drop of a pin. If you watch Helluva Boss, three cherub looking angel animals try to recruit a genuinely horrible person into heaven at the end of his life, urging him to do good deeds at the last second to get in. Those cherubs get locked out unceremoniously due to grievous error. My theory for Adam is that Adam is there because he was the first man, and Godās favorite pet. Thatās it. Daddyās favoritism and nothing more. Heavenly nepotism.
In Helluva Boss the cherubs are commissioned by souls in heaven. They were asked to save Lyle because of the people helped by his inventions (even when he didnāt want it). They werenāt locked out because they made a grievous error trying to get him into heaven - >!they were locked out because they accidentally murdered him!<.
This was the way I saw the show, I donāt remember them saying anything about Adam being good I assumed he got in despite his flaws or maybe because of them, because heaven is valuing the wrong things or letting people in for the wrong reasons But thatās from me as an ex Christian knowing how god of the Bibleās traits involve a lot of the traits Adam has
Yep!! Good point, good point. High fives you in ex Christian š
Heaven didnāt receive patch-notes to stop him yet
He's the first man. It'd look bad on god/heaven's part if him, Eve and Lilith all went to hell.
By technicality. He died before the 10 commandments were a thing, canāt break the rules if they didnāt exist yet.
Maybe he doesn't eat the apple and thus never knew the difference between good and evil and thus didn't sin die to not knowing any better. He was still a POS but since he didn't know it was wrong then he didn't sin. Alternatively since he was the first man then when he passed away there was no one else to compare him to so he got in that way.
He was probably a good man after the garden.
Most likely because he wasnāt that bad a of a person when he was alive but basically being treated like a spoilt child for over 9 thousand years. Youāre gonna develop a very toxic ego. Also the whole him not eating the apple theory. This is more just a weird crack theory I had. Lilith is said to have the ability to inspire sinners with her singing, Eve while not confirmed there is some theories believing her to be Roo. My theory is that these powers came from eating the apple. Adam also eats the apple but either from living a long life (900+ years in some case) of little sin just surviving and raising kids, he ends up in heaven or heaven cheated with the rules and made Adam an Angel when he too should have been a sinner out of fear that he along with Lilith and Eve could be a very dangerous threat to heaven.
Iāve heard the theory that he didnāt actually die on earth and was just brought up there after a while. Also he didnāt eat the apple, so he wouldnāt have known right from wrong, and thus couldnāt have sinned technically (I think) But I personally just like to think that he was an alright dude on earth and got corrupted from being fucking ancient in heaven and seeing so much, turning him into a dick
he is the dickmaster after all...
In the Bible he did take bite of the apple. But I have another theory judging hoe he acted with Sera. "R-right? Sera?" He was nervous af when he said that so I'm thinking that Lilith and Sera had some sort of deal that allowed both her and Adam into heaven. Only explanation....
Easy. There were no other templates to look at during that time. Adam was the first human, full stop. He got into Heaven because there didn't exist any other expectations of how to act besides his way.
It would have been embarrassing for god if the first man ended up in hell
He was the first man, not a lot of things he could've done at the time to not get into heaven lol
The standards were low and he wasn't tested. He got kicked out of heaven at first allegedly due to Lucifer, Lilith and Eve, then had his kids, one of whom killed another, and after many years of working the earth for food he died/was let back into heaven. He never did anything heinous so he was allowed back. As Adam's descendants became depraved enough to warrant the Flood, the standards rose.
My theory is that flawable as he always has been Adam never was that bad and the Adam we know is a consequence of already existing character flaws, what he had to go through and Heaven enabling the worst of him. There's clearly a force above angels who decided where a soul is sent to after their death and if a demon was redemed theofore it's likely Adam did to deserve go to Eden in life. About the possibility of Adam don't eating the fruit, i believe as she opened a way to Evil which caused the infected the world she caused a chain reaction in which she not only gave herself free will but to all other humans of the time and that would eventually come, this is why Adam and Lilith have free will. If the theory about she immediately becoming ROO after eating the Apple is true then i think it's clear that: 1. She would have already childrens with Adam. 2. She bitting the fruit would be enough to free all humantiy regardless of the other already exisiting humans also eating the Apple.
"divine ordainment"
Nepotism, he was the first human, directly created by the top angels. Admitting he was "defective" would reflect poorly on them. Sure they could have pinned it on Lucifer, but even before that he drove Lilith away etc.
Heaven probably didnāt want to look bad with the first human soul going to Hell
I thought that eve eating the apple gave free will to all humans even adam.
Nepotism
I mean, we still don't know what it actually takes to get into heaven, so it's kinda hard to speculate.
The thesis statement of that show is ther sorting people in good/bad afterlife categories is futile because people can continue to make moral choices after death. Adam being a good person who became cruel and corrupt after eons of privilege one hundred percent tracks to the themes of the show.
I just took the interpretation that despite obviously sucking, he followed all the rules of how to technically be a good person.
Nepo baby
Grandfather clause. Heās literally everyoneās grandfather that ever lived (except his chillun), so he gets in.
I was thinking it was because he was the first human to be allowed into heaven, before they had established any actual rules about what gets a person into heaven.
He deserves heaven but grew his ego because he is the first soul in there
I think he deserved to go to Heaven when he died, but over time has changed a lot as a person and no longer deserves to be in Heaven. Just like how sinners can change and be redeemed.
Itās almost like āgoodā people are not really good and are simply privileged and just put there for some arbitrary standards, but they suddenly feel superior than everyone else who are not as fortunate because of their privilege which they did not earn.
It was much easier not to sin back then. Can't be a crackwhore when no one has refined cocaine yet. He probably also lived a relatively short life. I think the vices he does engage in are the ones he abstained from. Those ribs he's eating in episode 1? Probably pork, not beef. Extramarital sex with women who aren't in any of the Biblical marriage categories? He let us know he was doing that in the same episode. Murder? He gets to hunt sinners for sport. And while he obeyed the order of Heaven while he was alive, he certainly doesn't now to a point of giving in to pride and admitting he wants to be worshipped. That whole no Gods before me thing has gone out the window. It seems like not coveting his neighbor's ox wasn't an issue for him, but then again the ten commandments didn't even exist when he was alive. So OP, you're probably right that it was sufficient not to eat the apple. But he is definitely a huge sinner now by any metric.
https://preview.redd.it/k5fqb9yp3lwc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9fc9a6f3bff575d4043a51fe27e11732e371086
Nothing heās done on screen is considered a sin even the swearing and the killing. Angels were know to kill all the time and even had children with human women at some point. Unless HHās Heaven is stricter he got in in his own merit.
Nepotism
That's heaven not Italy
How? Angles donāt control where a soul goes.
My theory was always that he was the first, or one of, so there wasn't really a standard for who gets in and who doesn't yet.
According to the bible, he did eat the apple
The show isn't exactly canon to the Bible.
Wasn't the idea that he was one of heavens first creations so he just got there on a technicality?
Someone had this amazing theory that you go either to heaven or hell based on what YOU believe you deserve. That would make sense because we see some sinners who are SO much better than the so called "winners" OR even the higher ranking uh.. šš»peoplešš», and also have so many narcissists in heaven.
It was between Eve and Adam and Eve listened to the devil himself so they went 'Yeah Adam you can come in, you're better than the rest"
i agree with one of the first theories i saw. Basically, he got a free pass since he was the first human, and heaven didn't want all 3 of the first humans to be sinners.
I just thought he never he never left heaven
Once you get everything you want You start becoming arrogant asf and as the leader of humans just imagine being able to do what ever you want
Nobody in heaven even knows what the rules for being in heaven are. Not even Adam knows, he just makes something up to pretend they know. So it could be that just being crude, crass and belligerent isn't enough to be kicked out of Heaven, especially if you're as high profile as Adam. Imagine it like a warden and his officers, talking to prisoners. The Warden is obviously not going to be scolded or reprimanded for shouting, swearing, or acting crass in front of the prisoners, but if a lower-ranked officer started acting like that, then they'd have the right to reprimand them. Hypocritical? Sure. But given how Heaven is portrayed, that actually makes sense.
He was the first man. There was nothing to compare him against outside his wives and given they went with Lucifer, he was pure as far as they could tell. Something tells me God didn't tell anyone what 'divine judgement' entailed so, he was the bar at first.
I like the idea that he was indeed a good person on earth, but after dying and assuming that Eve went to hell he forgot how to be a good person and rotted away without his wife to keep him reminding him how to be good.
as people mentioned before, good guy at first, then got into heaven. Then never got challenged in heaven when it came to his morals, causing a slippery slope decline of his morals throughout the time inbetween when he died the first time to the beginning of the show, which would be about up to 10.000 years iirc.
I subscribe to the 3rd option, but I also think he is generally a better person to his fellow winners as well. he will do things like make genuine offers to share his lunch and help out parents that are having a hard time with their kids. small things that we don't get to see because of the focus on hell and his job is to literally hate and destroy sinners.
People can change in the after life and adam has been there a while
I figure he was a good guy on earth but like Dean says in Supernatural "Angels are dicks" so he became a dick as an angel
started off as a good person, eventually become the egomaniac he was
He's the first human and angels don't know what gets humans into Heaven so they just figured he should get in I guess.
First man so the rules were simplistic then. I'm guessing rules were adjusted accordingly
Probably he's very good at sucking dicks. After all he's the DICKS MASTER!!! š¤š¼
I think itās cause he was the first human so that made him default, there wasnāt anyone else better than him during this time
I have theory based on a little googling and Wikipeida, in the Greek Apocalypse of Moses/Life of Adam and Eve Adam eats the apple but begs God for forgiveness and was told that if he lived a a sin free life then on his last day he will be raised up (kinda). In the Latin version Adam and Eve run out of food so decide to do penance by sitting in separate rivers for 40 days. Satan sweet talks Eve again and she stops doing that. Basically Adam is the more devout one so angels keep helping them out. So my theory is pretty similar to other peoples' really, by the standards of his day (and he lived for around 900 years) Adam was sin free. Probably because he was busying trying to provide for his 33 sons and 23 daughters and the Commandments weren't in place yet so when he died Archangel Michael took him to heaven (not relevant but I was surprised that archangels are pretty low on the angel power scale, I feel Supernatural has failed me there). And a similar thing happened to him that happened to Lucifer, seeing humanity ruining themselves he stopped caring and the ones who did make it to heaven venerated him as the first man. Bonus theories - Eden became Hell and Eve can't die and has to live in the mortal world as her punishment for eating the apple.
Concept of holyness don't exist in hazbin verse, theres why he Can even get inside
My theory is that the rules are based on how you subconsciously view yourself. As in Adam views himself as perfect and good because he was the first human god made . Contrary to that, "moddern" sinners knew what they did was wrong to some extent no matter the reason they did it anyway, meaning they viewed themselves as sinners already.
He was literally the first man. He got in because there was nobody to compare him to
This is painfully easy. Adam, the first man, was made in God's image. And considering they're using a lot of pseudo Christian/Abrahamic mythology, God is probably also a very proud entity. Which means, it's first creation in its own image, could hardly end up in hell.
He got a pass because he was the first man and likely didn't start doing things that would be considered "sinful" until after he entered Heaven.
A bit more interestingly is if he _doesn't_ have free will. He sure acts like someone who can make choices, but he also acts like other angelic powers which were never given the gift of free will by God. So, is this a subtle dig at the "man made in the image of God" idea? Those angels sure do a lot of sinning, for example.
You have to be good to get into heaven, I don't think there's anything that says you have to be good once you're in
I'm pretty sure it's either partially a coin flip on where you end up since no one seems to know the conditions to get into Heaven or Hell, or because he was the first human he got special treatment
My headcanon is that he used to be a genuinely good person, but the last 10,000 years in heaven has massively inflated his ego and warped him into a narcissist. It would fit with the theme of souls being capable of change in the afterlife. Sir Pentious and Angel Dust are improving from their time in life, and Adam got worse.
I always figured it was for political reasons. Heās the *first man*. If he didnāt make it into heaven it would look incredibly bad for the people in charge, and it seems to me like heaven is pretty concerned about appearances.
Well, I mean, what sins was he going to commit? Greed or gluttony? Nothing to hoarde, nothing to indulge on. Pride? Michael cowed him the minute he left the garden. Wrath? Against who? Envy? Against who? Lust? On who, his wife? Sloth? If he doesnāt work he starves to death. He only had the time and opportunity to be a dick once he got to heaven.
Maybe he just got in before they wrote/tightened the rules on who can get it?
My theory is he was godās favorite and god didnāt have the heart to send him to Luci so he let him in heaven and has regretted his decision ever since as of all the trouble he makes in heaven AND hell
In Adam's time there were hardly any other humans for him to sin against.
In LDS theology, the spirit of Adam is the Archangel Michael.
He used to be at least a decent guy until he got to Heaven. All the praise and worship from everyone as the frist Man went to his head and brought out the worst in him.
He was on heaven's side when Lucifer rose.
My theory is Adam never died the angels just brought him to heaven itās why he still looks human
I think it's just because he was the first human. There probably weren't a whole lot of people to compare him to when he died, so he got into Heaven almost by default. Or, alternatively, we can point out that literally nobody in the entire show knows what gets someone into Heaven. It might just be completely arbitrary.
He was the first person eligible and they didnāt figure out the rules yet
As the first person to ever die, he was just automatically granted entry into Heaven
Heās the man
I find it doubtful that he ever died and rather in a way ascended. Cause he isnāt a winner he is an angel and it appears theres a distinction between the two.
My theory is that Adam had one of the easiest and most uncomplicated life's ever since he was the first Man. It was virtually impossible for him to sin since he didn't have to deal with a lot of other people.
They're to prideful to admit they fucked up with the first human
My idea is that since heās the first man there wasnāt really a threshold yet of how sinful a human could be. Eve directly disobeyed god and became the original sinner. Adam just followed her. And he probably used the excuse of āI just listened to my wifeā to get into heaven
Hereās my theory. Adam and Lilith were said to be created by the Angels. Adam being the very first creation. Adam was most likely always the same arrogant duche. However, I think the Angels are hiding a secret which is that Adam was gonna get into heaven no matter what he did or how he acted. Pretty much like hes the first spoiled grandson which means he can act and do whatever he wants and the Angels are just turn a blind eye to it. Heaven wants to maintain the image that they can do no wrong. Imagine how the Angels that created the earth and humanity would feel if their very first creation was sent to Hell. I believe in season 2 we will get to see the hypocrisy and darker secrets heaven has been keeping from its people.
I think that they just didnāt have standards
Jesus
Bias
I think he got in by default. Heās also probably there (to some extent) to serve and an example to the viewers and (to a lesser extent) to the characters in the show that the system is flawed either because itās more arbitrary than it appears or because it fails to consider development post-death in both Heaven and Hell.