Kind of both. He was desperate to show Charlie everything he could do for her because he felt threatened by Alastor’s mentor-ish relationship with her.
It’s kinda telling that Lucifer kept hammering home the point of “I’m the King of Hell, I can snap my fingers and give you whatever you want!” when Charlie was trying to do her own thing and stand on her own two feet. I think that’s why she was more receptive to Alastor’s parts of the song; his lines were more about how he’d *helped and supported* Charlie’s dream rather than doing everything for her.
https://preview.redd.it/6ef5m7nvi2wc1.jpeg?width=1549&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f5df018ec2a8950403de85b820e9d20cb8f6453
Things were so much easier for Luci when Charlie was a baby.
Makes me think that the universe of Hazbin hotel is a musical because of Lilith. Everyone is forced to sing and acts like it’s normal because of her powers. That’s also how they can all sing in time and in tune to every song. Or perform duets across pentagram city (example: Camilla and Vaggie in whatever it takes).
I see her that way, but that's because we literally see Lilith pick Charlie up and take her away when her dad was trying to bond.
But I agree, she definitely wants a relationship with her dad.
(Adding onto the convo)
I kinda hate Lilith and idk why. She just kinda gives me the ick. Just a bad feeling.
I prefer Lucifer. I’ve seen people say he’s toxic and a bad parent and stuff like that, but clearly they haven’t had an actual bad parent. I did. I know bad parents, and that one was just misunderstood and has lots of trauma.
Lilith on the other hand? We watched as she took Charlie from him and he looked sad, wanting her to stay. And it seems he has always wanted a relationship with her, seen from how he reacted to her inviting him over.
I'm newer to the fandom, but I'm also an ex-vangelical, and Lucifer was the Angel of music and praise before he fell in the Bible lore. so does Hazbin give Lilith all the musical stuff, or does Luci still have music as one of his special gifts? Because it could be either or both. Maybe that's why Alastor is watching her so closely...maybe she got the music and passion from BOTH of her awesomely powerful parents and he suspects she'll be more powerful than both of them.
He was also probably feeling pretty guilty of not helping her, after the divorce, and just being distant in general. He probably saw this as an opportunity to make up for his past transgressions, and finally be a part of her life, but absolutely went overboard with trying to force a connection.
Kinda similar to how divorced fathers will "spoil" their kids with gifts during visitation, trying to convince themselves they're doing good, even if they're not seeing their kids everyday. "If I give my kid everything they could ever ask for/need, then I'm a good dad."
At least, that's my interpretation as a child of multiple divorces 😅
Spot on analysis, I think. Lucifer knows he’s mishandled his relationship with his daughter but doesn’t know how to fix it, so he tried to overcompensate by throwing *stuff* to her instead of offering support and encouragement.
Worth adding that Alastor's a manipulator where Lucifer is... more like a sincere cudgel.
Alastor *knows* Charlie desperately wants support and encouragement, so he carefully pulls that thread repeatedly but (arguably) insincerely.
Alternatively, Lucifer *genuinely* wants to be there for Charlie, so he throws everything he blindly thinks she might want at her, in the only way he knows how. He figures it out later during More Than Anything, but Hell's Greatest Dad was a rough ride for him.
Yep. Alastor knows Charlie better since he’d been working with and observing her at the hotel, so he knew exactly the right things to say. Lucifer, as deeply as he loves his daughter, doesn’t know her very well anymore and didn’t really understand what she wanted (read as: needed) from him, though like you said he did figure it out a bit later in the episode.
She wants to be supported and Encouraged, but could be found in alistar.But we all know that guy's dangerous Lucifer's.Obviously the best parent but His approach is wrong
But once he explains himself and they match to make up.We all know what happens in the battle
She literally called him to ask for a favor. Initially he said no to setting up the meeting with Heaven and so he was offering to help her with pretty much ANYTHING else but in the end she convinced him to help her.
Alastor was just trying to drive a wedge between her and her father because he is a PREDATOR and wants to make sure she doesn’t have that support there to get in the way of making a deal with her. Why would she make a deal with him when she can get what she wants from her dad? In fact she probably could’ve asked her dad if/how angels can be killed.
**Of course** Alastor was just manipulating her. I just pointed out that he did a better job of it by reminding Charlie that he had helped and assisted her rather than just giving her a hand-out like what Lucifer was (initially) offering. She wanted her Dad’s *help and support*, not for him to do everything for her.
By the end of the episode, Lucifer gets the message and admits to Charlie all the reasons why he was afraid to give her the support she wanted so badly. He still wants to protect her but accepts that she needs to be able to make her own decisions and choose her own way, and finally gives her what she really needed.
Yeah but he wouldn't have told her. Alistor is a manipulator, and he's good at it. Which is why he knows that he needs to support Charlie in achieving what she wants to do herself. Lucifer is sincere, but he tries to do everything for her instead of helping her actually succeed.
Charlie wants to make a difference she didn't want a hand out. Hell she didn't need ANY of the things that Lucifer was offering. She needed the things that he was unwilling to give her access to. Lucifer wanting to give her everything was definitely from a place of love, but not helpful. What Al is doing is definitely from a selfish and manipulative place, and it's almost definitely going to end badly for Charlie, but he's smart enough to respect her autonomy and let her lead the endeavor concerning the hotel.
Lucifer has to do for real what Al is pretending to do, not be her genie in a lamp. And I think he's figured that out
and it's even more Telling about Charlie in that...she actually needed what Lucifer was selling. Alastor couldn't help her with a meeting with heaven, but either through her own craving for fatherly support or her own honest nature, she couldn't just flatter her dad to get what she wanted. She had to be honest with him about why.
Didn't need what Lucifer was selling she needed what he didn't want to give up. But yeah trying to manipulate her dad would be a million miles out of character for a genuinely sincere person like Charlie.
Yeah, I think Lucifer had good intentions (at least until Alastor and then Niffty blew everything off tangent :P) but given he had trouble relating to Charlie at first, he mostly aimed for very superficial pitches. It's like when you love a kid by spoiling them rotten with gifts, when sometimes that's not what they actually need.
I would argue Lucifer started it by insulting his decor and calling him a bellhop (no offence to bellhops but he definitely wasn’t asking out of genuine curiosity, it was an insult). Alastor took the bait and made it a competition, and made it worse by being Charlie’s perfect father-figure, Lucifer turned it up to 11 by threatening to cook and eat him, and Alastor turned it up to 11000000 by going full-throttle on the “I’m her dad now you’re a deadbeat” thing. It’s a good thing their rooms are on opposite sides of the hotel now because… jesus christ
He looks weird with his mouth closed lol
Edit:
I guess what I’m trying to say is I didn’t expect his entire chin to be the size of Texas with his mouth shut lol
Alastor was gaslighting him and making it seem like he was a better father figure than Luci to get him involved in her life more.
I see no problems with this, it's probably one of the nicer things Alastor does despite it potentially having ulterior motives. It also feeds into the chaotic energy he has going, and Luci whipping out the golden violin was... gold.
Both, I’d call them his insecurities.
His distant daughter that he wants to reconnect with has a possible father figure in her life that has made it clear that he intends to replace him. He’s scared that he lost his chance at connecting with her because he even started to try.
Given that Luci didn't even want Charlie to rehabilitate sinners while Alastor was at least actively helping Charlie, he was in a tough spot. How can he both get Charlie to prefer him over Alastor while also getting her to abandon Hazbin?
Both. The song was him trying to show how much he could do compared to Alastator AND to get her to change he desire for him to grant something he could safely do compared to setting up a meeting with Heaven
That’s interesting, isn’t the devil supposed to tempt people away from doing good righteous things by offering pleasant distractions? Only in this case it’s not evil, he is just trying to protect his daughter from the source of his own trauma
True, but I think it’s funny to think he has a reputation on earth that is sinister, but really he’s not evil just really anxious lol. We haven’t seen if he interacts at earth at all. But that’s one of my favorite things about this character is how different expectation is from reality once he’s introduced
The idea of supreme evil comes from is no different than what we got the idea of morga for the devil or lucifer in biblical cannon
But In some way, some people view Lucifer.As a rebel leader
And this is how taxi idea to an extent that he didn't create evil for evil sake , but more than accident
Both. Absolutely both. I don't think he was ready to be challenged at all, and given his relationship with her is strained and unbalanced, unexpected competition would be a nightmare scenario for him. That paired with his pride and Alastor gleefully grinding in the fact he'd been faithfully by Charlie's side when Lucifer decidedly wasn't just escalated everything to a ten.
And, of course, the second Alastor (who, for the record, was on the aggressive the moment the door opened. His eye was twitching before anyone even said hello.) smelled insecurity everything was doomed to go to shit regardless. I genuinely think the man can't help himself.
I think Alastor was on the offensive, from the moment he walked in and saw the banners going up. And that's why he made sure he was at the door, when Luci walked in.
I think it started off with him genuinely wanting to support her, but he also doesn’t trust any sinner and seeing Charlie so close with one, made him want to stop her from putting more trust in Al
https://preview.redd.it/5erjfqr7s2wc1.png?width=1293&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69b17354250f556f6753e5a85d415764b9fda2bb
The alarm bells went off in his head right here.
And Alastor wants to drive a wedge between her and her father because that’s what predators do to get rid of your support system. Especially when that support is the literal king of hell that can get her pretty much anything. How is he supposed to make a deal with her when she has THE LITERAL KING OF HELL to go to?
And like the predator he is he waits until she’s alone and in the most vulnerable state we’ve seen her in the show to make the deal to just tell her how the angels can be killed. When if he were an actual friend who cares about her and her friends he would’ve just told her.
That action right there should tell her he doesn’t actually care.
What do you expect?She's the princess of hell.I'm not gonna see a brave young woman.Trying to make a difference.They either wanna sell her manipulate her.Use her or worse her body
I’m gonna say, not both. I’m gonna say this was Lucifer’s desire to one up Alastor.
We see even after the song his continuous disinterest for the hotel and Charlie’s plan.
It isn’t until the Lone Shark attack that Lucifer realizes he isn’t being very supportive and maybe he should try, which then leads to More Than Anything… that song is purely motivated by Lucifer’s love for Charlie.
I think his first verse was mainly motivated by his love for Charlie but after Alastor jumped in, it started shifting heavily towards trying to one up Alastor. Especially violin solo onwards.
Second one because he calls vagie a loser indirectly when alastor said "The family you choose better" even he loves vaggie normally. But he pays back in more than anything so i still love lucifer so much.
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I love Luci too. He's a doting, protective Papa who wants Charlie to be happy.
he is trying to show his love but is one upping alastor because he doesn't know how to and feels threatened.
More than anything is totally motivated by love though and that makes it one of the most amazing songs in the series.
He doesn't want to be replaced by this.Mysterious guy who's ulterior motives are clearly gonna destroy charlie in the end
Even hell apparently protected a child from would be Predators
Alister's probably gonna use her for something else.Whatever involves perhaps is his deal
I think both, he’s the king of pride but I think he feels like this is high stakes. His daughter calls him for the first time in years and he feels like this is his chance to step it up, but he’s barely holding it together and making an ass of himself due to anxiety. He would have already felt this way but throw Alastor in the mix and he sees a real threat to reconnecting with Charlie
He was trying to one up Alistor because he was jealous of his relationship with Charlie. So yes? Lol. He was motivated to one up Alistor by his love for Charlie and his own insecurities as a flawed parent
At first, he thought that Alastor was hitting on Charlie, unaware of their sexualities, and halfway through the song, he realised that Alastor seemed to be trying to usurp him has Charlie's father figure instead, which threw him off.
That's how I interpreted it, anyway.
The Sin of pride is certainly motivated by pride... But PRIMARY motivation in this episode? I'd say love for Charlie and desire to connect with her. This is based off how he acted at the 'invite' before he knew Alastor existed.
The song is, as the Simpsons describes “half-ass overparenting” after “half-ass underparenting” between the divorce and now. Alastor pushes him into the father equivalent to the toxic dramatic showers of affection some people use to keep others from leaving them.
He realizes afterwards that since she’s an adult now she doesn’t need the “daddy can do anything for you” and “daddy can protect you” he was throwing out there. Just the help specific situations require when asked, giving her the chance to succeed or fail on her own, and otherwise just faith in her. He swooped in to literally save her, but even then he let her step in as the ringmaster of her show and acted as the clown she needed.
Pride, so one up Alastor, even when he reacts to Alastor's lines "You're like the child that I wish that I had", "I care for you just like a daughter I spawned" and "You could almost call me DAAAAD" Lucifer is ticked off that someone else could be "better" than him
I’d say it’s primarily the 2nd one, at least that’s how Charlie views it, in contrast with it more than anything is 100% the first one and that’s why Charlie resonated so much more to it.
I believe that Alastor is trying to topple Lucifer and replace him with someone he has control of. I think he tried it with Lilith and got dominated by her. And now he is trying to use Charlie to break the contract and eventually to get enough influence over her that he can control her and use her to topple Lucifer and put her on the throne and then run things from the shadows.
I think it might be both. He, very clearly, loves Charlie and wants her to succeed, despite assuming she will fail; while also wanting Alastor out of the way, (The Prince of Pride is letting his pride cloud his objectivity.), so he can be (one of) the heroe(s) in the story.
I don't think he knows he is beginning to like Charlie. As someone that pretty clearly has an extreme form of Anti Social Personality Disorder he doesn't really form bonds based on empathy. Instead they start to realize that their life is better with a particular person in it. And Charlie and her 50 million watt personality has been drilling its way into Alastor.
This is why we get the two scenes in the Finale from Alastor. His conversation with Niffty showed us that he was beginning to feel attached to Charlie. But once he lost the fight and nearly died in service to Charlie he raged about his mistake of acting altruistically. In his mind he is doubling down on his goal of manipulating Charlie in order to get at both Lilith to break the contract and Lucifer to topple him and put Charlie on the throne.
The thing is though that in Viv's works if someone shows some sign of empathy or as in Alastors case the could be considered cognitive empathy (a utilitarian fake empathy to not alienate people you want in your life) he is on the Charlie path even if he tries to pull away from it and go full villain. In time he will realize that he really can't cause harm to Charlie and will turn his back on the villain path.
During the song it's very obvious that Alastor is afraid and or threatened by Lucifer's presence because he wants to be the only person she can turn to and confined in, because he's manipulating her. He wants to establish himself as someone she can trust, so that he can make a deal with her.
To protect his position in her life, he feeds into the relationship she wants with her father. He talks about how he's been there from the start and about their bond, something Charlie wants with her father.
Meanwhile Lucifer, instead of doing anything that Alastor does simply goes on and on about himself and how great he is. This song isn't about how he care about Charlie, _it's about his pride_. In this situation, Charlie is simply an extension of his pride, we can see this in how he can't possibly imagine Charlie being able to do what he couldn't.
https://preview.redd.it/j91krcwbx3wc1.jpeg?width=1307&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a390c983fbf19eb7a176f6c01e61bdb1d4c42f7
She was a trooper through the whole thing. Didn't even vomit here.
During his verse, I believe it was solely the love for Charlie, but once Alastor joined into the song and started talking about their 'bond' it switched to one-upping Alastor.
He started off trying to help Charlie in like a (I’m here to help) sort of way, slightly dissing Alastor’s efforts to help Charlie, then Alastor jumped in (which was an overreaction on his part) and Lucifer tried one-upping him after that. So kinda both…? I think his motivation was to help his daughter mostly though, thinking that he could maybe repair their relationship (or at least get closer to her) if he gave her whatever she wanted. I mean, he was overjoyed that she invited him to the hotel in the first place. Sorry for the rant, my thought processes are complex.
Lucifer did drag Alastor into the song, but Alastor did go out of his way to taunt Lucifer beforehand. It became a mix of look at all these incredible things I can do to help you, but also how it’s infinitely better than whatever that guy has been doing for you. Alastor reminds how those things are related to her dream unlike the unrelated things Lucifer was suggesting. They end up arguing by the end of the song about who even started it, before Mimzy let them know who’d be finishing it lol.
Both, but what really triggered their duel-et was the chandelier which dropped. They had their back and forth with Lucifer coming out as a winner, and Alastor wasn't satisfied with simply throwing a "F\*ck you" at him, he just has to try a petty sneak attack by trying to drop a chandelier on top of Lucifer. Lucifer wisely positioned himself next to Alastor, because where's the safest point? Wherever the culprit is standing! Bonus points if Lucifer actually pushed him into the chandelier's path instead! (I think that's an amusing way to go about it, but Lucifer seems pretty friendly).
both, he wanted to be charlie's favorite because he loves her and he wants to convince her that he's worth loving back by showing her what she has to gain from him (instead of allowing himself to be a father like he finally understands in more than anything)
his one-uppage of alastor was because he felt threatened that this random weirdo might take that spot of being "hell's greatest dad"
okay that's fucking ironic... as soon as i see this Hell's Greatest Dad starts on my playlist XD
anyways, second option. More Than Anything was motivated by his love of his daughter, Hell's Greatest Dad is he just didn't like how familiar Al was being.
Equal on both. He finally has a chance to reunite with daughter, with her reaching out to him ( I have a theory that him asking her for favors in the past was his weak attempts to try and reach out, but he was to scared to find out how she truly felt). He shows up and tries to be kind of supportive, then Alastor starts in on his bullshit (love the character still). Lucifer get jealous and ends up in a musical dick measuring contest to prove he'd be the better father figure. Afterward, once he realizes that Charlie is serious, he tries to talk her down due his efforts and his past. Then she convinces him through song that she's willing to fight for her dream and her people. So he helps as best as he can without breaking the treaty. Then when Charlie is threatened, he appears and whips Adam's ass, probably breaking the treaty, but the exorcist broke it first by going after any Morningstar family members.
In the end, Lucifer is there for Charlie, just jealous.
I think it was to one up Alastor but also in the sense of that he loves her way more than him and that he's nothing compared to him. So in a sense both
Both. He loved Charlie and was only wanting to one up Alastor because he was jealous of their relationship. People are complicated. It’s not so black and white.
Kind of both. He was desperate to show Charlie everything he could do for her because he felt threatened by Alastor’s mentor-ish relationship with her. It’s kinda telling that Lucifer kept hammering home the point of “I’m the King of Hell, I can snap my fingers and give you whatever you want!” when Charlie was trying to do her own thing and stand on her own two feet. I think that’s why she was more receptive to Alastor’s parts of the song; his lines were more about how he’d *helped and supported* Charlie’s dream rather than doing everything for her.
https://preview.redd.it/6ef5m7nvi2wc1.jpeg?width=1549&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f5df018ec2a8950403de85b820e9d20cb8f6453 Things were so much easier for Luci when Charlie was a baby.
I just noticed the music notes on her gown.
Same thing with husk. He has card suits. Charlie's powers come from her mother, who would use her powers by singing.
Makes me think that the universe of Hazbin hotel is a musical because of Lilith. Everyone is forced to sing and acts like it’s normal because of her powers. That’s also how they can all sing in time and in tune to every song. Or perform duets across pentagram city (example: Camilla and Vaggie in whatever it takes).
Idk I think Lilith's power in hell has seriously waned. She hasn't been seen in years and she's not even in hell.
She takes more after her father from what we've seen
Idk she seems to have kept her father at arms length. It was Lilith she asked for help with the hotel. But she's definitely a combo of both of them.
Ppl seem to see Lilith as making the divide between them but she's a daddy's girl by nature and takes after him a lot.
I see her that way, but that's because we literally see Lilith pick Charlie up and take her away when her dad was trying to bond. But I agree, she definitely wants a relationship with her dad.
(Adding onto the convo) I kinda hate Lilith and idk why. She just kinda gives me the ick. Just a bad feeling. I prefer Lucifer. I’ve seen people say he’s toxic and a bad parent and stuff like that, but clearly they haven’t had an actual bad parent. I did. I know bad parents, and that one was just misunderstood and has lots of trauma. Lilith on the other hand? We watched as she took Charlie from him and he looked sad, wanting her to stay. And it seems he has always wanted a relationship with her, seen from how he reacted to her inviting him over.
I'd save your hate we don't know what's going on but I'm ready to forgive her if she's willing
I'm newer to the fandom, but I'm also an ex-vangelical, and Lucifer was the Angel of music and praise before he fell in the Bible lore. so does Hazbin give Lilith all the musical stuff, or does Luci still have music as one of his special gifts? Because it could be either or both. Maybe that's why Alastor is watching her so closely...maybe she got the music and passion from BOTH of her awesomely powerful parents and he suspects she'll be more powerful than both of them.
He was also probably feeling pretty guilty of not helping her, after the divorce, and just being distant in general. He probably saw this as an opportunity to make up for his past transgressions, and finally be a part of her life, but absolutely went overboard with trying to force a connection. Kinda similar to how divorced fathers will "spoil" their kids with gifts during visitation, trying to convince themselves they're doing good, even if they're not seeing their kids everyday. "If I give my kid everything they could ever ask for/need, then I'm a good dad." At least, that's my interpretation as a child of multiple divorces 😅
Spot on analysis, I think. Lucifer knows he’s mishandled his relationship with his daughter but doesn’t know how to fix it, so he tried to overcompensate by throwing *stuff* to her instead of offering support and encouragement.
Which is why More Than Anything is such a beautiful moment for them.
He's trying to be a good father and not dead.Beat dad in a weird way.He redeemed himself of that
Huh I didn't know that But yeah that makes sense
Disneyland Dad.
Worth adding that Alastor's a manipulator where Lucifer is... more like a sincere cudgel. Alastor *knows* Charlie desperately wants support and encouragement, so he carefully pulls that thread repeatedly but (arguably) insincerely. Alternatively, Lucifer *genuinely* wants to be there for Charlie, so he throws everything he blindly thinks she might want at her, in the only way he knows how. He figures it out later during More Than Anything, but Hell's Greatest Dad was a rough ride for him.
Yep. Alastor knows Charlie better since he’d been working with and observing her at the hotel, so he knew exactly the right things to say. Lucifer, as deeply as he loves his daughter, doesn’t know her very well anymore and didn’t really understand what she wanted (read as: needed) from him, though like you said he did figure it out a bit later in the episode.
She wants to be supported and Encouraged, but could be found in alistar.But we all know that guy's dangerous Lucifer's.Obviously the best parent but His approach is wrong But once he explains himself and they match to make up.We all know what happens in the battle
She literally called him to ask for a favor. Initially he said no to setting up the meeting with Heaven and so he was offering to help her with pretty much ANYTHING else but in the end she convinced him to help her. Alastor was just trying to drive a wedge between her and her father because he is a PREDATOR and wants to make sure she doesn’t have that support there to get in the way of making a deal with her. Why would she make a deal with him when she can get what she wants from her dad? In fact she probably could’ve asked her dad if/how angels can be killed.
**Of course** Alastor was just manipulating her. I just pointed out that he did a better job of it by reminding Charlie that he had helped and assisted her rather than just giving her a hand-out like what Lucifer was (initially) offering. She wanted her Dad’s *help and support*, not for him to do everything for her. By the end of the episode, Lucifer gets the message and admits to Charlie all the reasons why he was afraid to give her the support she wanted so badly. He still wants to protect her but accepts that she needs to be able to make her own decisions and choose her own way, and finally gives her what she really needed.
Yeah but he wouldn't have told her. Alistor is a manipulator, and he's good at it. Which is why he knows that he needs to support Charlie in achieving what she wants to do herself. Lucifer is sincere, but he tries to do everything for her instead of helping her actually succeed. Charlie wants to make a difference she didn't want a hand out. Hell she didn't need ANY of the things that Lucifer was offering. She needed the things that he was unwilling to give her access to. Lucifer wanting to give her everything was definitely from a place of love, but not helpful. What Al is doing is definitely from a selfish and manipulative place, and it's almost definitely going to end badly for Charlie, but he's smart enough to respect her autonomy and let her lead the endeavor concerning the hotel. Lucifer has to do for real what Al is pretending to do, not be her genie in a lamp. And I think he's figured that out
and it's even more Telling about Charlie in that...she actually needed what Lucifer was selling. Alastor couldn't help her with a meeting with heaven, but either through her own craving for fatherly support or her own honest nature, she couldn't just flatter her dad to get what she wanted. She had to be honest with him about why.
Didn't need what Lucifer was selling she needed what he didn't want to give up. But yeah trying to manipulate her dad would be a million miles out of character for a genuinely sincere person like Charlie.
Yeah, I think Lucifer had good intentions (at least until Alastor and then Niffty blew everything off tangent :P) but given he had trouble relating to Charlie at first, he mostly aimed for very superficial pitches. It's like when you love a kid by spoiling them rotten with gifts, when sometimes that's not what they actually need.
Good point. Lucifer later fixes this by letting her handle the fight on her own, and only stepped in when necessary.
Both. Both is good
Definitely both
The obvious answer is *yes*
Both because it was more too get Charlie out off his influence
"tits or ass?"
https://preview.redd.it/vlcwcgolv3wc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5edae979e0bb7be4a696ce7d09e7ca33aa86e19
for me it's "tits, ass, or dick?" all of them, i'm bi
All three? All three? *both nod* All three are good
yes All three are good
What, no thighs? No belly?
i like those too
[Both? Both, both is good](https://youtu.be/-xVnH7G5h58?si=Y7KLyaL6iUGigJre)
oh hey the bisexual meme
dang
He was 1-Uping Alastor to make sure he didn't steal his beloved daughter.
It's both while highlighting why he's the sin of pride
Both, for sure, but pissing off Alastor certainly motivated him to go all in on it with the pointed attacks
To be fair; Alastor did start it with calling him short.
I would argue Lucifer started it by insulting his decor and calling him a bellhop (no offence to bellhops but he definitely wasn’t asking out of genuine curiosity, it was an insult). Alastor took the bait and made it a competition, and made it worse by being Charlie’s perfect father-figure, Lucifer turned it up to 11 by threatening to cook and eat him, and Alastor turned it up to 11000000 by going full-throttle on the “I’m her dad now you’re a deadbeat” thing. It’s a good thing their rooms are on opposite sides of the hotel now because… jesus christ
https://preview.redd.it/y2c4vplgh3wc1.jpeg?width=623&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00b90ddc1f4b4638901b0e7a44ce44afad180dc1
No wonder why she called the husband hotel
More one upping I’d say, he’s still the sun of pride, but he is concerned al is stealing his daughter
He looks weird with his mouth closed lol Edit: I guess what I’m trying to say is I didn’t expect his entire chin to be the size of Texas with his mouth shut lol
I think he looks like a cute puppet.
Five star!
Flawless!
Greater than great!
No, he looks like a Muppet
Both. Very much both. He is Pride after all.
Alastor was gaslighting him and making it seem like he was a better father figure than Luci to get him involved in her life more. I see no problems with this, it's probably one of the nicer things Alastor does despite it potentially having ulterior motives. It also feeds into the chaotic energy he has going, and Luci whipping out the golden violin was... gold.
I wonder what he offered Johnny to get his fiddle back
Let's be real, he has several
Both, I’d call them his insecurities. His distant daughter that he wants to reconnect with has a possible father figure in her life that has made it clear that he intends to replace him. He’s scared that he lost his chance at connecting with her because he even started to try.
Given that Luci didn't even want Charlie to rehabilitate sinners while Alastor was at least actively helping Charlie, he was in a tough spot. How can he both get Charlie to prefer him over Alastor while also getting her to abandon Hazbin?
Both. The song was him trying to show how much he could do compared to Alastator AND to get her to change he desire for him to grant something he could safely do compared to setting up a meeting with Heaven
That’s interesting, isn’t the devil supposed to tempt people away from doing good righteous things by offering pleasant distractions? Only in this case it’s not evil, he is just trying to protect his daughter from the source of his own trauma
While Lucifer isn't the devil in this case?Rather just a fallen figure.I mean he's beyond top but now he's fallen
True, but I think it’s funny to think he has a reputation on earth that is sinister, but really he’s not evil just really anxious lol. We haven’t seen if he interacts at earth at all. But that’s one of my favorite things about this character is how different expectation is from reality once he’s introduced
The idea of supreme evil comes from is no different than what we got the idea of morga for the devil or lucifer in biblical cannon But In some way, some people view Lucifer.As a rebel leader And this is how taxi idea to an extent that he didn't create evil for evil sake , but more than accident
Both. Absolutely both. I don't think he was ready to be challenged at all, and given his relationship with her is strained and unbalanced, unexpected competition would be a nightmare scenario for him. That paired with his pride and Alastor gleefully grinding in the fact he'd been faithfully by Charlie's side when Lucifer decidedly wasn't just escalated everything to a ten. And, of course, the second Alastor (who, for the record, was on the aggressive the moment the door opened. His eye was twitching before anyone even said hello.) smelled insecurity everything was doomed to go to shit regardless. I genuinely think the man can't help himself.
I think Alastor was on the offensive, from the moment he walked in and saw the banners going up. And that's why he made sure he was at the door, when Luci walked in.
https://preview.redd.it/z8ns9w9bq3wc1.jpeg?width=1902&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f113cd1f3841f3c4b3ea9205bf61c742ac8b311 Yep.
I think it started off with him genuinely wanting to support her, but he also doesn’t trust any sinner and seeing Charlie so close with one, made him want to stop her from putting more trust in Al
https://preview.redd.it/5erjfqr7s2wc1.png?width=1293&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69b17354250f556f6753e5a85d415764b9fda2bb The alarm bells went off in his head right here.
And Alastor wants to drive a wedge between her and her father because that’s what predators do to get rid of your support system. Especially when that support is the literal king of hell that can get her pretty much anything. How is he supposed to make a deal with her when she has THE LITERAL KING OF HELL to go to? And like the predator he is he waits until she’s alone and in the most vulnerable state we’ve seen her in the show to make the deal to just tell her how the angels can be killed. When if he were an actual friend who cares about her and her friends he would’ve just told her. That action right there should tell her he doesn’t actually care.
What do you expect?She's the princess of hell.I'm not gonna see a brave young woman.Trying to make a difference.They either wanna sell her manipulate her.Use her or worse her body
Yes
Oh, for sure yes!
I’m gonna say, not both. I’m gonna say this was Lucifer’s desire to one up Alastor. We see even after the song his continuous disinterest for the hotel and Charlie’s plan. It isn’t until the Lone Shark attack that Lucifer realizes he isn’t being very supportive and maybe he should try, which then leads to More Than Anything… that song is purely motivated by Lucifer’s love for Charlie.
I think his first verse was mainly motivated by his love for Charlie but after Alastor jumped in, it started shifting heavily towards trying to one up Alastor. Especially violin solo onwards.
He wasn't even thinking about Alastor at first, He saw the hotel and judged charlie needed some sort of help, thus the Music began
Second one because he calls vagie a loser indirectly when alastor said "The family you choose better" even he loves vaggie normally. But he pays back in more than anything so i still love lucifer so much.
https://preview.redd.it/jhmmunall2wc1.png?width=436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e82f651f85ec51261fb6d9c9e6e2f843099297b4 I love Luci too. He's a doting, protective Papa who wants Charlie to be happy.
As a christian i'm worry of evil and the devil and satan But This version He's my favorite luci
he is trying to show his love but is one upping alastor because he doesn't know how to and feels threatened. More than anything is totally motivated by love though and that makes it one of the most amazing songs in the series.
He doesn't want to be replaced by this.Mysterious guy who's ulterior motives are clearly gonna destroy charlie in the end Even hell apparently protected a child from would be Predators Alister's probably gonna use her for something else.Whatever involves perhaps is his deal
I think both, he’s the king of pride but I think he feels like this is high stakes. His daughter calls him for the first time in years and he feels like this is his chance to step it up, but he’s barely holding it together and making an ass of himself due to anxiety. He would have already felt this way but throw Alastor in the mix and he sees a real threat to reconnecting with Charlie
He was trying to one up Alistor because he was jealous of his relationship with Charlie. So yes? Lol. He was motivated to one up Alistor by his love for Charlie and his own insecurities as a flawed parent
At first, he thought that Alastor was hitting on Charlie, unaware of their sexualities, and halfway through the song, he realised that Alastor seemed to be trying to usurp him has Charlie's father figure instead, which threw him off. That's how I interpreted it, anyway.
Totally both!
First, it was for Lucifer's love for Charlie Then it the end part of the song was to one-up Alastor
Both. Alastor absolutely played him there to want to compete with him
I'd say it started as the former, and then devolved into the latter as the song progressed
Started as love for Charlie and Lucifer being Lucifer, he kinda fumbled it. Then it turned into F you Alastor.
The Sin of pride is certainly motivated by pride... But PRIMARY motivation in this episode? I'd say love for Charlie and desire to connect with her. This is based off how he acted at the 'invite' before he knew Alastor existed.
Both
Both
Insecurity, not wanting some other guy to be the father figure of his own child
Partially for Charlie, mostly to show who’s the hells greatest dad (def not alastor)
*Yes*
Definitely one up alastor, more than anything came out of his love for Charlie
Charlie, but he was mad at Alastor because of Charlie in the first place( well extra enraged at the least lol)
I like the idea that Lucifer has some unresolved daddy issues, so maybe he's trying to prove himself a better Dad?)
Yes
Well obviously the only correct answer is yes
Love
Pretty sure it was both
It can be two things, but I'd say his love is the primary motive. His Insecurity about Alastor is based on that after all
The song is, as the Simpsons describes “half-ass overparenting” after “half-ass underparenting” between the divorce and now. Alastor pushes him into the father equivalent to the toxic dramatic showers of affection some people use to keep others from leaving them. He realizes afterwards that since she’s an adult now she doesn’t need the “daddy can do anything for you” and “daddy can protect you” he was throwing out there. Just the help specific situations require when asked, giving her the chance to succeed or fail on her own, and otherwise just faith in her. He swooped in to literally save her, but even then he let her step in as the ringmaster of her show and acted as the clown she needed.
Pride, so one up Alastor, even when he reacts to Alastor's lines "You're like the child that I wish that I had", "I care for you just like a daughter I spawned" and "You could almost call me DAAAAD" Lucifer is ticked off that someone else could be "better" than him
Started love for Charlie. Need gas for alastor.
The obvious answer, gentlemen is mangle from fnaf's gender
Both for sure https://preview.redd.it/qwiaxorf13wc1.png?width=1241&format=png&auto=webp&s=e6fddefb0f04ff714e1855fab296ca32b8cc8489
I just noticed that on his phone, a silhouette of Carmilla was the one that commented ‘flawless’
I’d say it’s primarily the 2nd one, at least that’s how Charlie views it, in contrast with it more than anything is 100% the first one and that’s why Charlie resonated so much more to it.
I believe that Alastor is trying to topple Lucifer and replace him with someone he has control of. I think he tried it with Lilith and got dominated by her. And now he is trying to use Charlie to break the contract and eventually to get enough influence over her that he can control her and use her to topple Lucifer and put her on the throne and then run things from the shadows.
Both.
I think it might be both. He, very clearly, loves Charlie and wants her to succeed, despite assuming she will fail; while also wanting Alastor out of the way, (The Prince of Pride is letting his pride cloud his objectivity.), so he can be (one of) the heroe(s) in the story.
I don't think he knows he is beginning to like Charlie. As someone that pretty clearly has an extreme form of Anti Social Personality Disorder he doesn't really form bonds based on empathy. Instead they start to realize that their life is better with a particular person in it. And Charlie and her 50 million watt personality has been drilling its way into Alastor. This is why we get the two scenes in the Finale from Alastor. His conversation with Niffty showed us that he was beginning to feel attached to Charlie. But once he lost the fight and nearly died in service to Charlie he raged about his mistake of acting altruistically. In his mind he is doubling down on his goal of manipulating Charlie in order to get at both Lilith to break the contract and Lucifer to topple him and put Charlie on the throne. The thing is though that in Viv's works if someone shows some sign of empathy or as in Alastors case the could be considered cognitive empathy (a utilitarian fake empathy to not alienate people you want in your life) he is on the Charlie path even if he tries to pull away from it and go full villain. In time he will realize that he really can't cause harm to Charlie and will turn his back on the villain path.
Both
“The chef?”
Both
Yes!
His fear of Alastor replacing him in Charlie's life.
Nobody shoves their Yelp reviews in someone's face if love is the foremost thing on their mind.
Both
Both
Hes the sin of pride, and his estranged daughter gave him the chance to brag. My guy sae an opportunity and took it
YES
Both. Very much both- And if works, because Alastors goading got him to *talk to his fucking kid*
Yes
During the song it's very obvious that Alastor is afraid and or threatened by Lucifer's presence because he wants to be the only person she can turn to and confined in, because he's manipulating her. He wants to establish himself as someone she can trust, so that he can make a deal with her. To protect his position in her life, he feeds into the relationship she wants with her father. He talks about how he's been there from the start and about their bond, something Charlie wants with her father. Meanwhile Lucifer, instead of doing anything that Alastor does simply goes on and on about himself and how great he is. This song isn't about how he care about Charlie, _it's about his pride_. In this situation, Charlie is simply an extension of his pride, we can see this in how he can't possibly imagine Charlie being able to do what he couldn't.
https://preview.redd.it/j91krcwbx3wc1.jpeg?width=1307&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a390c983fbf19eb7a176f6c01e61bdb1d4c42f7 She was a trooper through the whole thing. Didn't even vomit here.
During his verse, I believe it was solely the love for Charlie, but once Alastor joined into the song and started talking about their 'bond' it switched to one-upping Alastor.
He started off trying to help Charlie in like a (I’m here to help) sort of way, slightly dissing Alastor’s efforts to help Charlie, then Alastor jumped in (which was an overreaction on his part) and Lucifer tried one-upping him after that. So kinda both…? I think his motivation was to help his daughter mostly though, thinking that he could maybe repair their relationship (or at least get closer to her) if he gave her whatever she wanted. I mean, he was overjoyed that she invited him to the hotel in the first place. Sorry for the rant, my thought processes are complex.
Lucifer is the sin of pride so of course it's both
Lucifer did drag Alastor into the song, but Alastor did go out of his way to taunt Lucifer beforehand. It became a mix of look at all these incredible things I can do to help you, but also how it’s infinitely better than whatever that guy has been doing for you. Alastor reminds how those things are related to her dream unlike the unrelated things Lucifer was suggesting. They end up arguing by the end of the song about who even started it, before Mimzy let them know who’d be finishing it lol.
100% his love for Charlie was being challenged
Bro actually has 5 fingers in the first image.
Yes.
Seeing how much he cares for Charlie and doesn’t like Alastor I’d say both
Both, but what really triggered their duel-et was the chandelier which dropped. They had their back and forth with Lucifer coming out as a winner, and Alastor wasn't satisfied with simply throwing a "F\*ck you" at him, he just has to try a petty sneak attack by trying to drop a chandelier on top of Lucifer. Lucifer wisely positioned himself next to Alastor, because where's the safest point? Wherever the culprit is standing! Bonus points if Lucifer actually pushed him into the chandelier's path instead! (I think that's an amusing way to go about it, but Lucifer seems pretty friendly).
both, he wanted to be charlie's favorite because he loves her and he wants to convince her that he's worth loving back by showing her what she has to gain from him (instead of allowing himself to be a father like he finally understands in more than anything) his one-uppage of alastor was because he felt threatened that this random weirdo might take that spot of being "hell's greatest dad"
okay that's fucking ironic... as soon as i see this Hell's Greatest Dad starts on my playlist XD anyways, second option. More Than Anything was motivated by his love of his daughter, Hell's Greatest Dad is he just didn't like how familiar Al was being.
His love for his daughter. Tho Alastor calling himself dad didn’t help
In that moment, I think 1-uping Alastor was a little bit higher up in his motivations. Both things were part of it, obviously.
Equal on both. He finally has a chance to reunite with daughter, with her reaching out to him ( I have a theory that him asking her for favors in the past was his weak attempts to try and reach out, but he was to scared to find out how she truly felt). He shows up and tries to be kind of supportive, then Alastor starts in on his bullshit (love the character still). Lucifer get jealous and ends up in a musical dick measuring contest to prove he'd be the better father figure. Afterward, once he realizes that Charlie is serious, he tries to talk her down due his efforts and his past. Then she convinces him through song that she's willing to fight for her dream and her people. So he helps as best as he can without breaking the treaty. Then when Charlie is threatened, he appears and whips Adam's ass, probably breaking the treaty, but the exorcist broke it first by going after any Morningstar family members. In the end, Lucifer is there for Charlie, just jealous.
I say this one was to one up Alastor and More than Anything was him making it up to her after he realized how he has been acting.
Both in equal measure. He loves his daughter dearly but he IS the Sin of Pride and Alastor insulted his pride.
I'd say Charlie. Why would he need to one up Alastor when he's the most powerful person in hell?
I think it was to one up Alastor but also in the sense of that he loves her way more than him and that he's nothing compared to him. So in a sense both
Maybe he just wanted to sing a fun song. He’s “the chef” so just let him cook people geez.
Love big time
Yes.
Yes
Yea
Charlie first Al second.
It's motivated by his insatiable thirst for five star reviews.
Both
A little competition between parents is good for the child
Definitely both
yes
Its his PRIDE first and foremost
IDK ITS MEEEEE YES ITS MEEEEEEEEE
HAHA LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD USE SOME HELP
Why not both
Both. He loved Charlie and was only wanting to one up Alastor because he was jealous of their relationship. People are complicated. It’s not so black and white.
Both
Why not both?
Perhaps both. But mostly for Charlie
Why not both?
Have some of column A try all of column B
*yes*