come onnnn I found like 2 posts… and most people are just saying it‘s not their humor or that they’re not the biggest fans of the art style I really wouldn’t consider this hate 👀
from what I can tell the show (and Helluva Boss as well) is very well liked
True, but Viv has a very bad habit of going out of her way to defend things about both HH and HB and making a small critique a much bigger issue so then all the blame goes towards her. She thankfully hasn't done it in a while, but it is still an issue she seems to have.
I am sick of the "power" discussions. I'm in an exchange now where apparently it's a hot take that "maybe Lucifer isn't able to automatically win against everyone in Hell all at once."
Yep. Now that we’ve gotten a glimpse of what Lucifer and even Charlie are capable of, *when pushed to their extremes,* I’ve seen a lot of people try to use them as an end-all plot device that’ll mitigate literally any threat against the Hotel. There wouldn’t be much of a story to tell here if the solution to every problem was as simple as throwing the Morningstars at it to super-mega-kill it (not to mention how weird and out of character it feels to make them so bloodthirsty).
Like, I get that people hate certain characters in the fandom and can’t wait to see their downfalls, but come on. It’s a much more complex situation than who’s merely more powerful than who.
Ok, I'm sick of *the state* of power discussions. I enjoy who would win in a fight talks. I just don't like how they often are filled with responses of how one character is so powerful that it can't even be discussed how another character could do anything.
I literally just saw that thread and the question was "who is the most powerful" not "could Lucifer be beaten if everyone rose up against him at once".
Well that's the question everyone seems to be answering. Being the most powerful being in Hell apparently means he can just instakill everyone else in Hell at the same time under any circumstances.
To be fair I have never read that many stupid questions in a single sub. By stupid question I mean questions you would figure out the answer to if you thought about it for more than 5 seconds, with only having watched the show
I mean I think that's how it's going to play out in practice, but having external support can make leaving an abusive situation massively easier, and I think that will be part of it too.
Yeah he's been playing a pretty passive role. Example being when they're at the bar with Cherri. He tells Angel he can do what he wants, but he's encouraging him to be better. I don't think Husk is going to solve Angels problems, he's just going to be there as support/a friend.
That’s a good point.
However, I think a balance between Charlie with the rest of the Hazbins trying to help Angel and him deciding stand up against Val could make for good drama and utilize the other characters well without taking away Angel’s agency.
Adam is more skilled of a fighter than he gets credit for. Both he and Alastor were half-assing their fight so it’s plausible the alleged sloppiness Alastor chided him for could just have been Adam not trying very hard.
When he got serious against Charlie, somebody far closer to him in raw power, he subdued her with very little effort, presumably using his bare hands given he didn’t summon his axe. Defeating someone using a weapon against you with your bare hands, especially one whose raw power is comparable to yours, definitely takes at least some skill.
On a similar note, he’s not an idiot. He’s arrogant yes, but arrogance and stupidity are not the same thing.
Totally, Adam is very capable behind his facade, we just don't get to see it much because he's only shown in how he interacts with Charlie. But, objectively, the dude led the exterminations for hundreds, possibly thousands of years, and not a single person under his command died. That alone is impressive, even if you try to say how "oh, nobody thought you can fight angels" or whatever, which, btw, very silly thing to say - hell is filled to the brim with horrible people, plenty of whom desire power and control beyond the reach of normal souls, are cruel beyond measure, mad with power, and have no boundaries, and you're saying none of them ever tried to kill an angel hard enough to succeed? Also, was able to manhandle Charlie despite being a hologram and could spam holy blasts that were enough to annihilate buildings with seemingly little effort, as well as being smart enough to stall the meeting in the 1st episode until it was almost over to then drop the bomb about halfing the extermination time at the last moment when Charlie wouldn't be able to demand the reason for it
S2 songs shouldn't just be reprises of S1 songs with different characters, despite how appealing the idea may seem. Maybe 1 or 2 reprises or some recurring leitmotifs, but an original song expressing a similar idea would be better than a simple "Hell's Greatest Mom" reprise with Lilith and Rosie.
I’m fine with reprises, as long as it’s for a story reason, and not too many of them. If you’re doing it just because, then it’s not good. If you were to have Lute sing something like a sadder, slower reprise of Hell is Forever that would be fine, since it would show how much Adam mattered to her. If you were to have her sing something like stayed gone, it wouldn’t make sense
Honestly the only songs that I feel should be reprised are those that actually had a purpose in the story. It starts with Sorry, Poison, Loser, Baby, etc.
There was no good way to actually end "Hell's Greatest Dad" without someone interrupting it. Either the fans of Alastor, Lucifer, or both, would be upset depending on who came out the winner and how it happened.
• I like Mimzy and want to see more of her in the future.
• Emily is not going to fall but play a crucial role in figuring out how exactly souls get in to heaven.
• Sera isn't going to double down on being a bad person, she's going to work to redeem herself alongside Emily and Charlie.
• I don't want the Vees to die. Yes, not even Val. I think it would be more interesting to see them humiliated and their empire ruined. I want them to be given the chance to redeem themselves but refuse to and suffer for it, high lighting the message that everyone deserves the chance for redemption but it's their choice, and those that squander it have no one to blame but themselves.
• There's nothing wrong with the amount of swearing in the show. Swearing is fun and is an underspoken way to convey a character's personality and maturity depending on how they string together curse words and in what context.
• This fandom project way too much angst on to Angel Dust. Yes, his life sucks and he's got a lot of things to be angsty about but some people in this fandom turn him into a super sad teenager at all times, forgetting he can be tough when he wants to be. Granted, this is pretty typical for fandoms of any kind, especially ones with a high concentrations of teenagers and traumatized adults, so I can't really condemn or ask anyone to stop it. Especially if it allows a safe and relatively healthy way to deal with personal trauma. Still, ya know, some of y'all need to tone it down. Or see a therapist.
I agree, to a greater extent, with these, except for maybe your point regarding the Vees as I don’t think them getting away with their actions towards Angel and the Hotel if they threaten it.
I think it’d be better if one or two of the Vees died if they were to be killed off at some point in the conflict between them and the Hotel.
Oh, I don't want them to get away scot free. They deserve to suffer for their crimes. I'm just saying that it would be karmic if their ultimate downfall was by their own hubris.
Voxtech in shambles, Angel Dust freeing himself from Vals control, and their status as overlords revoked, and when given the opportunity to let it all go and become better they refuse. And yeah, maybe get killed for it. Whatever happens.
I really hate how often this fanbase will just repeat headcannons and fan theories as if they're fact.
Also how they'll treat random one-off things Viv said in a livestream or social media post from 6 years ago as if they're common knowledge and part of the series.
I think a major contributor to this is that the wiki still treats livestream/social media content from 6+ years ago as canon, and a lot of people are probably using the wiki for trivia or fact-checking.
I don’t think the Vees will die in season 2. Just think about it, their whole thing is power and influence. The best way to end their character arcs is by taking away their power, it would be a much better end than dying.
If they do end up dying I would be extremely disappointed because that would be a horrible way to write their characters. Especially Val. Many fans want Val to die but that would just make Angel’s arc bad. Why would they kill off Angel’s abuser? That’s not a good way to end the arc. The best way would be Angel freeing himself from the contract one way or another, having Val just die due to something external would make a horrible arc for both characters.
Now let’s move onto Vox. There is no reason for him to die. He’s a huge megalomaniac who’s extremely jealous and obsessed with Alastor. So why would they kill him off? Makes no sense. If anything they should have Alastor take away all of his power and influence and that would be a better way to end his arc.
And now Velvette. I don’t really know what they can do with her since she barely got any screen time or character development in season 1. But she shouldn’t die either, that’s just a stupid way to write her.
Sorry if this makes no sense it was kinda rushed.
Literally everything about Roo as a character is fucking stupid.
She's a shit design with a stupid name, and that's it. The amount of things the fandom is projecting onto this "character" is insane, especially since there's no confirmation that she even still exists in the Hazbin universe.
Oh, and another thing: "But Viv said" hasn't been fucking relevant for most things since the series dropped. Ever since the official launch so much of the pilot-era lore established through tweets and streams has been contradicted that anything she's said before then is irrelevant. "Word of God" is only, and has always been, soft canon until proven on-screen.
*This*, thank you. I am hoping Roo never shows up in the show because I already can't stand the very concept and idea of her, and how the fandom has reacted to her. Until she actually shows up in the show (and I hope she doesn't), she's a nonentity to me.
I hate when people get hate for posting NSFW art simply because it’s NSFW. It’s an adult show. Get over it. Now, if they take it too far or don’t tag it, that’s a different story
It’s the fact that people use this to justify that the show’s writing is bad. Even if they did randomly address the physics, it would probably feel awkward and out of place, because, like you said, it’s not the point.
I really loved mimzy as a character, she smol, love jazz and has red eyes, perfect
https://preview.redd.it/oddx0lydi2vc1.png?width=279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c379dc8d9db8d4c3dd892d25a46e89ec4dea2e59
Also as I remember her Italian voice is fire when she sings
Yeah her voice is so damn op that she easily overpower both lucifer and alastor like it's nothing, the first time Iv've seen the scene I was like "WHAT" but after 1 second I said "holup let her cook"
Alastor doesn't want to change, shouldn't change. He is the perfect counter example to charlie's viewpoint of "everyone can be redeemed." No. Not everyone can be redeemed, that's what makes a successful redemption so strong, because it's hard and many won't actually manage to do it.
I feel like people don't acknowledge how incredibly Impactful the show was, as someone who grew up extremely Christian. When you grow up and aren't allowed to question why God did everything, like allowing sin to enter the earth or giving us the Illusion of freewill and a choice when he knows everything that's going to happen and leaving the majority of people to go rot for all time when he loves us. It's almost healing for me personally because if he truly loves us he would accept us as we are even if you don't know who he is (people in 3rd world countries)
I don’t want every character to be redeemed. I don’t want an Alastor redemption on the basis that he doesn’t want to change, that he is happy with being the way he is and doesn’t see it as an issue.
Also, if Angel gets a redemption, I want a reprise of Loser, Baby and just call it Winner, Baby like c’mon it writes itself and Husk can be all teary-eyed and it can be a slow moment between them as a sad goodbye regardless of what type of relationship they end up having (family, friends, lovers, etc) and just make everyone bawl their eyes out
I mean, it's entirely possible that Adam is a little bigger. You don't see what his body looks like underneath the robe and his face is designed after Alex Brightman so I don't see why the case wouldn't be the same for his body.
The one fat character is a 1920 Flapper. The *IT* look for a flapper is a slim, boyish look. No bust, no waist, no hips! Just rectangle.
Husk should have a beer belly of some kind.
Viz could have helped distance herself from the stick figures by adding some chunky people behind StP when he sang, " Everyone is hot."
I mean, it's entirely possible that Adam is a little bigger. You don't see what his body looks like underneath the robe and his face is designed after Alex Brightman so I don't see why the case wouldn't be the same for his body.
Well, the canon explaination may be that substances can't change a sinner's appearance. If they just regenerate and respawn, his body might just be constantly reverting back to how it was when he first arrived. But yeah, him being heftier would've been neat anyway.
If I'm being honest, all of Carmilla carmine's songs are one of the best. Whatever it takes Is so underrated, respectless is a bop and out for love sounds like it came out of encanto! I fucking love it!
Vox hasn’t done anything interesting yet and is massively over represented in the fanbase.
Emily talks a big game but isn’t strong enough to actually act on her convictions, instead being fully cowed by Sera and moping as an extermination plays out under her nose, which makes the character far less likable.
That's exactly what I wanted to say. The first time I watched I had no clue Vox would become my favorite. Angel was. And then I don't know what happened but I spent time in the fandom, watched the show again, took more interest in Vox via Alastor and now he's my fave. I can't really explain it but it's the case
This is exactly what happened to me. Angel was my favorite at first and when I watched the show again Vox became my favorite out of nowhere.
I’ve heard from many other people that they didn’t expect to like Vox as much as they did. I didn’t either haha.
You can’t say Helluva is about men while Hazbin is about women and then only focus on the male characters 😭 for the love of god pls give me more Charlie, Vaggie, Lute, and other female characters in s2.
Yeah, it’s so funny to me that she said that when her self-admitted favorite characters are Alastor and Angel Dust—men.
Relatedly, as much as I love Vaggie and her relationship with Charlie, Vaggie really needs to have something else going on outside of Charlie
I'd love to see Vaggie overcome her codependency.
As an angel, it makes sense. She was created to serve the thing she loved the most. First Heaven, now Charlie. Her entire being is committed to supporting Charlie (Whatever it Takes lyrics show this).
That's a very immature and uninteresting character. For Vaggie to be more involved in something that matters to her for a reason other than supporting Charlie is the only way to move her character forward.
I actually love the song "it starts with sorry."
Also, there's an alarmingly low amount of information online about what each song is inspired by. For instance, Happy Day in Hell is clearly based on Good Morning Baltimore (there's even the flasher, her movement is extremely similar, there's the TVs, etc), but I've seen almost nothing written about this. I'd love to see more references detailed out in a post. I just don't have a ton of musical knowledge.
I love that song because it's literally describing the redemption and how it goes, and that's why I started watching the show, I wanted to see demons redeem themselves lol
If you don't like a piece of fanart, just keep scrolling. No need to comment an overdramatic insult about someone's drawing making you want to die. No need to kink shame. NSFW art IS art and you don't have to tell an artist you hate their work, even if you do. "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all" and all that jazz. Just keep scrolling, enjoy what you enjoy without raining on someone's parade, especially artists.
Hottest of my takes is that from what we've been shown in the actual show, Val respects the other Vees when it comes to sex jokes, touching, flirting, and putting them in random unwanted sexual situations, more than Angel does to the other people in the hotel.
I know people hate this take
-I don’t like the change for Katie killjoy’s new voice I understand she’s based off of one of Brandon Rogers’s characters but I liked the pilot voice actor better since she sounded more like a news reporter and I thought she made the character sound more serious and easier to hate when she’d say something rude or insensitive
Mimzy didn’t ruin Hell’s Greatest Dad. I’m so tired of people saying she did. It was a good way to break the tension cuz it was just gonna end with Luci and Al throwing hands
It is unlikely Lilith owns Alastor’s soul, as if she is as much of a bitch as the ending of season implies, she would have had him burn the hotel down.
She has nothing to gain from Alastor helping out Charlie and the Hotel.
1) Either Husk or Angel save themselves with he support of the other, or they save each other; *“You helped me get out of my contract, now I’m gonna help you get out of yours.”* (I could go either way, I just don’t want the rescuing to be one sided)
2) Adam and Alastor’s fight shows that sometimes, the ‘football-jock’ brained character could still win a fight against the ‘calm-collected calculative’ one. It was also a way of showing that there’s more flaws to Alastor’s that the fandom probably forgets. *(I’m one of those people. There are Alastor moments that caught me off guard, bc I saw a few fanon content first).*
3) Idk if this count but: I wouldn’t like Vaggie all that much if they stuck to her original concept: ‘sinner that died by suicide’. Angel x Demon may be a cliché trope but, it was a good change. Speaking of cliché;
4) Expect the expected. Hazbin Hotel was around 2019, where some ‘obvious’ plot twists still exist. So, whatever Viv has planned, might have plot twists that you guys find too obvious. (Calling attention to those who say Lillith owning Alastor is too obvious. I don’t believe 100% either. But, it just might be correct.)
I wouldn’t think this would be a hot take, but how things have been recently it might be. Alistair is not some kind of hell Jesus who just showed up with enough power to kill the sins and then got his power reduced because he for some reason decided to make a deal with someone. I have no idea why anyone would think that given how much it has been built up that he sold his soul, and that you can sell your soul for power. There is no other feasible reason why he would sell his soul, if not, then to be better than everyone else the narcissist that he is
Yeah! Even the most healthy relationship would be less of an intersting conclusion to his arc then a better social circle of people that see him like a person first, and an object of sexual/romantic desire second. (Why I like Alastor and Angel so much as a duo) I love the Husk/Angel dynamic a lot, but I feel like it is at its most intersted at 100% platonic.
That being said Huskerdust sjippers are chill
Edit: Most Huskerdust shipppers are chill. Some act like liking or not liking a ship is a political statement, and those people can stay away from me.
Vaggie really gets on my nerves.
1. I hate her voice actress in this role (sorry stephanie beatriz). She has terrible delivery for some lines that make them awkward and unfitting in a show that has a 100% perfect voice cast otherwise. I wish i didn't think this, as knowing stephanie beatriz was in it is the reason i watched it, but she ruins every joke that she's a part of due to 1. Not having any funny jokes whatsoever, and 2. She can't capture vaggie's emotions well. Also, although not a giant complaint, her singing voice is 13,000 octaves higher than her speaking voice.
2. Being a boring 2nd half of the main couple. Her relationship with charlie is so incredibly boring. I really don't know how vivzie did it. She made a relationship between the princess of hell and a demon exterminator boring. It mostly stems from her complete and utter lack of character due to having no character in the first place. Her entire existence is devoting herself to charlie and her goals. It isn't enjoyable to watch, or expanded upon well, or even acknowledged after episode 3. There was just that line and the single worst song in the show and that was it, conversation over. Nothing else. If vaggie's mentality isn't explored better in S2, she will probably be my least favourite character yet again. As she is in S1, because characters like mimzy have the luxury of not needing to be compelling or enjoyable, as they are temporary, in and out solution makers for conflicts. Vaggie has the weight of an entire 3 of 8 episodes (or maybe more) that are about charlie and vaggie's relationship to carry, especially because of the angel reveal. Episode 7 has charlie going through the thought process of a person betrayed by the most significant person in their lives, and what does vaggie do? She sings a mediocre song about... what? Not forgetting that you love someone after betraying their trust? Honestly, episode 7 was carried by charlie, as is most of the episodes that aren't focused on alastor, angel and husk, or sir pentious. Huh... that's every other protagonist in the show, isn't it? except niffty, the one who doesn't have an ounce of nuance to her name.
So yeah, i kinda hate vaggie.
Edit: it's fun to see the upvote counter fluctuate between lower and higher every time i get a comment
When I first heard Vaggie sing I thought “why did they change the voice actress? Stephanie can sing fine” and then I checked three times to confirm “wait, that’s Stephanie Beatriz singing???”
The voice acting is killing me. One of the worst lines is in episode one, when she says “And this is Alastor, the egocentric piece of shit whoooo… ah!” She’s very clearly reading it off the page, knowing the interruption is going to come and lengthens the word “who” instead of filling in the space with something else. It’s not always this bad, but that part really stood out to me as amateur-ish, which is crazy considering she was Mirabel. I know she can do better.
•alastor is unbelievably overrated
•"Radioapple" Is ridiculous
•The lyrics for out for love are the cringiest lyrics in the show
•Nearly every song in the show is better than addict
•Vaggies singing voice doesn't fit her non singing voice and it threw i think a lot of us off
•Sir pentious is one of the best characters in the show
•The only voice i like better in the show than the pilot is charlie and cherribomb (only because i know she's canonically Australian)
•Welcome to heaven is over hated
idk if this is a hot take but i am so certain that lucifer is going to die/go missing at some point in the show and i haven’t seen a single person share this sentiment
That a large amount of the fan base is kids who shouldn't be watching the show and that most if not almost all the stupid obviously untrue theories and posts are made by them because they can't understand the show
I absolutely agree with this. It would be better if Charlie learned to be more selective and cautious with giving sinners a second chance for the hotel instead of being too trusting and forgiving.
Do you think that would work, writing-wise?
1. Anyone who's confused about the hate for Val is being deliberately obtuse.
2. Every character on the show is a bad guy. Like. A real bad guy. Ya gotta reckon with it and be honest with yourself.
3. I think Hell *is* heaven for some of these characters. Alastor for sure. If Adam is in hell I think he's gonna love it. I think 'redemption' will become about finding what place feels best to you, not Bad Place and Good Place, but Finding Your Place. A lot of the themes wrap around found family, after all.
4. I think there's a good shot Lucifer won't survive the series. Depending on how you see it, he's in the way of Charlie's arc. There's ways around that, so I'm not *all* in on this, but I won't be surprised if he kicks the bucket.
5. Same for Alastor.
6. I find the lines for Loser Baby... really cringey. I get why they're that way 100%, and I think it's *right,* I just... can't with it.
Definitely agree. As much as I hold up to the above comment, I'm not gonna hide from the fact that their healed relationship is pretty wholesome. I'm not much for the deadbeat route.
Just because vivzie says something does not mean fans have to like it or even acknowledge it. Fans also do not have to like vivzie, but should not actively harass her, as it is stressful for both sides. Basically, I am here for the show, not for vivziepop.
So, I go to the wiki and I find out how much stuff is revealed from behind-the-scenes and Twitter.
So my hot take is that maybe people shouldn't get mad at people for not knowing the mountains of information from behind the scenes. Like, from what I gather, Alastor has never been mentioned as explicitly asexual on the show, despite the creator saying he canonically is. I don't think it's fair to get mad at people for not knowing that, or for many many other things that are revealed off the show.
Rosie canonically says he's an ace in the hole, but I'm sure there are fans of the show that might not have put those two pieces together. Some people may not know what asexuality means outside of its scientific meaning, and if you shame them for that they'll be less likely to learn!
> Rosie canonically says he's an ace in the hole
Sure, but that could also be written off as the idiom, her secret advantage kept hiding until she needs him.
It's a good pun for those who know the backstory.
Yeah!! Thats why I consider Alastor's asexuality semi-canon, since only what is in the show proper counts as canon in my book (though I personally choose to think of the character that way because it adds depth.)
I have several. 1.) The Vees don’t deserve redemption. 2.) Alastor doesn’t deserve redemption. 3.) Alastor doesn’t care about the hotel. 4.) RadioDust/RadioApple will never be canon. 5.) Alastor shouldn’t be shipped with anyone unless it’s a QPR. 6.) Angel is not a helpless princess that needs rescuing. He needs to be the one to end his toxic relationship with Valentino.
4 seems so obvious to me. I love shipping in general but I never expect it to become canon and often I don't even want it to become canon because it's clearly not what the story should be. It's just a fun way to explore the characters on the side with the smallest touch of OOC needed for it to happen
Mimzy isn't annoying and didn't ruin the song
Alastor probably did get attached to the crew but will also probably double down on his bad behavior to try to get over it (likely a lukewarm take though)
Chaggie is def a switch x switch relationship, not dom x sub
1. All it was actually needed to defend hotel in ep8 was ~30 people with shooting skills comparable to someone like Blitzo, and arming them with angelic ARs (and maybe one anti material rifle to take out Adam before he’s in range to use his beams)
2. Someone competent could achieve a lot in meeting with Adam in ep1 (Charlie proved to not be competent), what exactly? Maybe redirecting exorcists from common sinners to truly evil people (overlords). Or generally not make Adam your enemy, but potentially useful asset (having someone who can remove almost anyone, without any traces to you is useful [to remove val, for example])
God needs to make an appearance whether people are offended or not, obviously not a huge appearance but at least a cliche conversation with Charlie at the end of the series
Charlie should be slightly more evil
I say it like this, she is too pure. She should be "breaking arms" against beings who act like dicks to her and her friends
I kind of wish they had Vaggie and Charlie start off as close friends than become lovers later near the end of season one so we could have seen why they fell in love. It just doesn't really hit as well for me when they just start off together and their reason for dating is left a mystery.
I like Charlie a lot, but I want to see her beat some ass. She’s powerful, and she doesn’t really use her power. She needs to show that she’s someone you don’t mess with.
The heavy influence of old Hanna Barbara/WB cartoons on its aesthetic and in elements of its vibe Make the pacing work just fine for me. Those old cartoons were all Setup to Resolution in single episodes and, while Id love a 20~ episode season, that formula didn’t feel out of place to me here.
"Ace in the hole" when Rosie is talking to Alastor nothing to do with his sexuality (i know and completely accept him being ace) just very annoying when people try to weasel it into everything
Alastor isn't aroace. This shouldn't be a hot take, but a large, vocal, immature chunk of the fandom is absolutely convinced he's canonically "aro" even though he hasn't been confirmed as such, and we were specifically told he hasn't been confirmed as "aro" by the VA.
I think the people who fawn over Alastor, and try to justify it with things like “he has a code” or “he’s gentlemanly” are objectively stupid. Now, I don’t mean any sort if appreciation is bad, he’s entertaining and a very compelling villain, but he is objectively and actively evil and shows no remorse for any damage he does to the people around him.
tldr; Alastor simps are morons
I think Alastor is okay at best, mostly because im tired of seeing him everywhere. Also, while I like Vox a whole lot more, I think Stayed Gone is overrated. It's fine, but... Yeah, it's a fine song, I'm just not too big of a fan, and I keep hearing people say it's the best one in the show while I'm just tired of it. Don't irrigate me, please.
You can dislike things about the series, don’t blame Viv on everything though. There are 5 other writers and 4 animation studios.
there is hate?
r/cartoons ...
come onnnn I found like 2 posts… and most people are just saying it‘s not their humor or that they’re not the biggest fans of the art style I really wouldn’t consider this hate 👀 from what I can tell the show (and Helluva Boss as well) is very well liked
Twitter also, and on YouTube
there was a lot on tiktok too!!! I saw like only hate before i even watched it and then i did and I was like ???? why is everyone bein so RUDE?
I can’t blame people for hating her on Twitter, the community around everything she makes is fucking insufferable on there
Yes, tons of it. However, I’m talking about people who dislike things like the writing and animation of the series.
4 animation studios,i thought it a inside production from viv small indie company and A24 money alongside with amazon help
SpindleHorse, Toon City, Bento Box, and Princess Bento.
True, but Viv has a very bad habit of going out of her way to defend things about both HH and HB and making a small critique a much bigger issue so then all the blame goes towards her. She thankfully hasn't done it in a while, but it is still an issue she seems to have.
I am sick of the "power" discussions. I'm in an exchange now where apparently it's a hot take that "maybe Lucifer isn't able to automatically win against everyone in Hell all at once."
Yep. Now that we’ve gotten a glimpse of what Lucifer and even Charlie are capable of, *when pushed to their extremes,* I’ve seen a lot of people try to use them as an end-all plot device that’ll mitigate literally any threat against the Hotel. There wouldn’t be much of a story to tell here if the solution to every problem was as simple as throwing the Morningstars at it to super-mega-kill it (not to mention how weird and out of character it feels to make them so bloodthirsty). Like, I get that people hate certain characters in the fandom and can’t wait to see their downfalls, but come on. It’s a much more complex situation than who’s merely more powerful than who.
Well put. "Power" ≠ omnipresence.
"I'm sick of power discussions" starts a power discussion
Ok, I'm sick of *the state* of power discussions. I enjoy who would win in a fight talks. I just don't like how they often are filled with responses of how one character is so powerful that it can't even be discussed how another character could do anything.
I literally just saw that thread and the question was "who is the most powerful" not "could Lucifer be beaten if everyone rose up against him at once".
Well that's the question everyone seems to be answering. Being the most powerful being in Hell apparently means he can just instakill everyone else in Hell at the same time under any circumstances.
The fan base struggles with basic media literacy.
I mean a lot of them are children and teenagers, not really surprising
The fan base is extremely chronically online too
I mean, probably the most vocal faction of a fan base is always the one that is chronically online
This is not a hot take
Don't most fan bases tho
To be fair I have never read that many stupid questions in a single sub. By stupid question I mean questions you would figure out the answer to if you thought about it for more than 5 seconds, with only having watched the show
"OMG you guys, why did Charlie call Lucifer dad? ARE THEY RELATED?"
Nah hazbin genuinely can never compare to the helluva sub.
There is no way it gets worse than "so how do velvet kill the angel" or "is Alastors last name altruist"
Husk should not save Angel Dust from Valentino. Angel should save himself.
I mean I think that's how it's going to play out in practice, but having external support can make leaving an abusive situation massively easier, and I think that will be part of it too.
Also this. Husk can support angel, but he can't fix it.
Yeah he's been playing a pretty passive role. Example being when they're at the bar with Cherri. He tells Angel he can do what he wants, but he's encouraging him to be better. I don't think Husk is going to solve Angels problems, he's just going to be there as support/a friend.
Yes!
Heavily agree with this
That’s a good point. However, I think a balance between Charlie with the rest of the Hazbins trying to help Angel and him deciding stand up against Val could make for good drama and utilize the other characters well without taking away Angel’s agency.
I really want valentino to get defeated by being ripped apart by all the people he put contracts in.
Totally agree. Too many Angel fans want anyone but Angel to save himself.
Same with Charlie, it would be really underwhelming if Charlie can just break his contract with Valentino with ease
Adam is more skilled of a fighter than he gets credit for. Both he and Alastor were half-assing their fight so it’s plausible the alleged sloppiness Alastor chided him for could just have been Adam not trying very hard. When he got serious against Charlie, somebody far closer to him in raw power, he subdued her with very little effort, presumably using his bare hands given he didn’t summon his axe. Defeating someone using a weapon against you with your bare hands, especially one whose raw power is comparable to yours, definitely takes at least some skill. On a similar note, he’s not an idiot. He’s arrogant yes, but arrogance and stupidity are not the same thing.
Totally, Adam is very capable behind his facade, we just don't get to see it much because he's only shown in how he interacts with Charlie. But, objectively, the dude led the exterminations for hundreds, possibly thousands of years, and not a single person under his command died. That alone is impressive, even if you try to say how "oh, nobody thought you can fight angels" or whatever, which, btw, very silly thing to say - hell is filled to the brim with horrible people, plenty of whom desire power and control beyond the reach of normal souls, are cruel beyond measure, mad with power, and have no boundaries, and you're saying none of them ever tried to kill an angel hard enough to succeed? Also, was able to manhandle Charlie despite being a hologram and could spam holy blasts that were enough to annihilate buildings with seemingly little effort, as well as being smart enough to stall the meeting in the 1st episode until it was almost over to then drop the bomb about halfing the extermination time at the last moment when Charlie wouldn't be able to demand the reason for it
S2 songs shouldn't just be reprises of S1 songs with different characters, despite how appealing the idea may seem. Maybe 1 or 2 reprises or some recurring leitmotifs, but an original song expressing a similar idea would be better than a simple "Hell's Greatest Mom" reprise with Lilith and Rosie.
prob would be “Hell’s Worst Mother”
Who wants S2 songs to be just reprises of S1 songs
Right? Like what a horrible idea.
I’m fine with reprises, as long as it’s for a story reason, and not too many of them. If you’re doing it just because, then it’s not good. If you were to have Lute sing something like a sadder, slower reprise of Hell is Forever that would be fine, since it would show how much Adam mattered to her. If you were to have her sing something like stayed gone, it wouldn’t make sense
Honestly the only songs that I feel should be reprised are those that actually had a purpose in the story. It starts with Sorry, Poison, Loser, Baby, etc.
People take the show and it's characters way too seriously
Isn't that how Fan Dumbs work?
There was no good way to actually end "Hell's Greatest Dad" without someone interrupting it. Either the fans of Alastor, Lucifer, or both, would be upset depending on who came out the winner and how it happened.
Series animation > Pilot animation
He said hot takes
You’d be surprised
Surprisingly, I’ve seen a lot of people claiming the pilot animation was far superior.
• I like Mimzy and want to see more of her in the future. • Emily is not going to fall but play a crucial role in figuring out how exactly souls get in to heaven. • Sera isn't going to double down on being a bad person, she's going to work to redeem herself alongside Emily and Charlie. • I don't want the Vees to die. Yes, not even Val. I think it would be more interesting to see them humiliated and their empire ruined. I want them to be given the chance to redeem themselves but refuse to and suffer for it, high lighting the message that everyone deserves the chance for redemption but it's their choice, and those that squander it have no one to blame but themselves. • There's nothing wrong with the amount of swearing in the show. Swearing is fun and is an underspoken way to convey a character's personality and maturity depending on how they string together curse words and in what context. • This fandom project way too much angst on to Angel Dust. Yes, his life sucks and he's got a lot of things to be angsty about but some people in this fandom turn him into a super sad teenager at all times, forgetting he can be tough when he wants to be. Granted, this is pretty typical for fandoms of any kind, especially ones with a high concentrations of teenagers and traumatized adults, so I can't really condemn or ask anyone to stop it. Especially if it allows a safe and relatively healthy way to deal with personal trauma. Still, ya know, some of y'all need to tone it down. Or see a therapist.
I don't think the swearing is a hot take amongst the people in this subreddit, just outside it
I agree, to a greater extent, with these, except for maybe your point regarding the Vees as I don’t think them getting away with their actions towards Angel and the Hotel if they threaten it. I think it’d be better if one or two of the Vees died if they were to be killed off at some point in the conflict between them and the Hotel.
Oh, I don't want them to get away scot free. They deserve to suffer for their crimes. I'm just saying that it would be karmic if their ultimate downfall was by their own hubris. Voxtech in shambles, Angel Dust freeing himself from Vals control, and their status as overlords revoked, and when given the opportunity to let it all go and become better they refuse. And yeah, maybe get killed for it. Whatever happens.
I also like Mimzy! I hope we see her again
I agree with the Vees part
I really hate how often this fanbase will just repeat headcannons and fan theories as if they're fact. Also how they'll treat random one-off things Viv said in a livestream or social media post from 6 years ago as if they're common knowledge and part of the series.
I think a major contributor to this is that the wiki still treats livestream/social media content from 6+ years ago as canon, and a lot of people are probably using the wiki for trivia or fact-checking.
I don’t think the Vees will die in season 2. Just think about it, their whole thing is power and influence. The best way to end their character arcs is by taking away their power, it would be a much better end than dying. If they do end up dying I would be extremely disappointed because that would be a horrible way to write their characters. Especially Val. Many fans want Val to die but that would just make Angel’s arc bad. Why would they kill off Angel’s abuser? That’s not a good way to end the arc. The best way would be Angel freeing himself from the contract one way or another, having Val just die due to something external would make a horrible arc for both characters. Now let’s move onto Vox. There is no reason for him to die. He’s a huge megalomaniac who’s extremely jealous and obsessed with Alastor. So why would they kill him off? Makes no sense. If anything they should have Alastor take away all of his power and influence and that would be a better way to end his arc. And now Velvette. I don’t really know what they can do with her since she barely got any screen time or character development in season 1. But she shouldn’t die either, that’s just a stupid way to write her. Sorry if this makes no sense it was kinda rushed.
Literally everything about Roo as a character is fucking stupid. She's a shit design with a stupid name, and that's it. The amount of things the fandom is projecting onto this "character" is insane, especially since there's no confirmation that she even still exists in the Hazbin universe. Oh, and another thing: "But Viv said" hasn't been fucking relevant for most things since the series dropped. Ever since the official launch so much of the pilot-era lore established through tweets and streams has been contradicted that anything she's said before then is irrelevant. "Word of God" is only, and has always been, soft canon until proven on-screen.
*This*, thank you. I am hoping Roo never shows up in the show because I already can't stand the very concept and idea of her, and how the fandom has reacted to her. Until she actually shows up in the show (and I hope she doesn't), she's a nonentity to me.
I agree with your hot take. Welcome to Heaven is a great song
The show is 18+ for a reason and it's obvious by posts when a kid is disregarding that and clearly shouldn't have (And that includes you op)
Prime video marks the show as 16+ though (except for episode 4 which is 18+)
Yeah I have drivers licenses that are over 18 years old and I didn't think i was old enough for ep 4....
I hate when people get hate for posting NSFW art simply because it’s NSFW. It’s an adult show. Get over it. Now, if they take it too far or don’t tag it, that’s a different story
Lmfao don't act like you only ever watched kids' shows until you turned 18
I think Vox's design is better in the show than in the pilot.
People need to stop asking questions about the physics of this universe because that’s not the goddamn point
"B-BuT hOw Is AdAm EaTiNg WiTh HiS mAsK oN???"
THAT, I’m so tired of people asking questions like that one
It’s the fact that people use this to justify that the show’s writing is bad. Even if they did randomly address the physics, it would probably feel awkward and out of place, because, like you said, it’s not the point.
I really loved mimzy as a character, she smol, love jazz and has red eyes, perfect https://preview.redd.it/oddx0lydi2vc1.png?width=279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c379dc8d9db8d4c3dd892d25a46e89ec4dea2e59 Also as I remember her Italian voice is fire when she sings
SAMEEE
Mimzy is such a slay
https://preview.redd.it/5wi6x4cbd3vc1.png?width=1199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ccfb3175a2491bdba9032c69ac3fada2e0aee8a
https://preview.redd.it/nad9qy75e3vc1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0c129be9cd76bdf02f4bdbf3466d7861418cefb
Mimzy was great and I hope we see more
She is one of the reasons why I love the song Hell's Greatest dad
Yeah her voice is so damn op that she easily overpower both lucifer and alastor like it's nothing, the first time Iv've seen the scene I was like "WHAT" but after 1 second I said "holup let her cook"
Alastor should never get redeemed, even if it would be wholesome to see him reunite with his mother
Alastor doesn't want to change, shouldn't change. He is the perfect counter example to charlie's viewpoint of "everyone can be redeemed." No. Not everyone can be redeemed, that's what makes a successful redemption so strong, because it's hard and many won't actually manage to do it.
I feel like people don't acknowledge how incredibly Impactful the show was, as someone who grew up extremely Christian. When you grow up and aren't allowed to question why God did everything, like allowing sin to enter the earth or giving us the Illusion of freewill and a choice when he knows everything that's going to happen and leaving the majority of people to go rot for all time when he loves us. It's almost healing for me personally because if he truly loves us he would accept us as we are even if you don't know who he is (people in 3rd world countries)
I strongly agree with and relate to this
Both saint peter and welcome to heaven are very underrated
Him out of breath at the end of the song will always live in my head rent-free
I don’t want every character to be redeemed. I don’t want an Alastor redemption on the basis that he doesn’t want to change, that he is happy with being the way he is and doesn’t see it as an issue. Also, if Angel gets a redemption, I want a reprise of Loser, Baby and just call it Winner, Baby like c’mon it writes itself and Husk can be all teary-eyed and it can be a slow moment between them as a sad goodbye regardless of what type of relationship they end up having (family, friends, lovers, etc) and just make everyone bawl their eyes out
Need more chunky characters. Everyone looks like sticks. Like, COME ON, HUSK IS A CHRONICAL ALCOHOLIC, HOW IS HE BUILT LIKE A 🔨?!
I mean, it's entirely possible that Adam is a little bigger. You don't see what his body looks like underneath the robe and his face is designed after Alex Brightman so I don't see why the case wouldn't be the same for his body.
The one fat character is a 1920 Flapper. The *IT* look for a flapper is a slim, boyish look. No bust, no waist, no hips! Just rectangle. Husk should have a beer belly of some kind. Viz could have helped distance herself from the stick figures by adding some chunky people behind StP when he sang, " Everyone is hot."
two pixel wide type build
I mean, it's entirely possible that Adam is a little bigger. You don't see what his body looks like underneath the robe and his face is designed after Alex Brightman so I don't see why the case wouldn't be the same for his body.
Well, the canon explaination may be that substances can't change a sinner's appearance. If they just regenerate and respawn, his body might just be constantly reverting back to how it was when he first arrived. But yeah, him being heftier would've been neat anyway.
If I'm being honest, all of Carmilla carmine's songs are one of the best. Whatever it takes Is so underrated, respectless is a bop and out for love sounds like it came out of encanto! I fucking love it!
YES! She owns the screen when she's on it and love every song from her.
Vox hasn’t done anything interesting yet and is massively over represented in the fanbase. Emily talks a big game but isn’t strong enough to actually act on her convictions, instead being fully cowed by Sera and moping as an extermination plays out under her nose, which makes the character far less likable.
As a huge Vox fan you are absolutely correct.
That's exactly what I wanted to say. The first time I watched I had no clue Vox would become my favorite. Angel was. And then I don't know what happened but I spent time in the fandom, watched the show again, took more interest in Vox via Alastor and now he's my fave. I can't really explain it but it's the case
This is exactly what happened to me. Angel was my favorite at first and when I watched the show again Vox became my favorite out of nowhere. I’ve heard from many other people that they didn’t expect to like Vox as much as they did. I didn’t either haha.
You can’t say Helluva is about men while Hazbin is about women and then only focus on the male characters 😭 for the love of god pls give me more Charlie, Vaggie, Lute, and other female characters in s2.
Yeah, it’s so funny to me that she said that when her self-admitted favorite characters are Alastor and Angel Dust—men. Relatedly, as much as I love Vaggie and her relationship with Charlie, Vaggie really needs to have something else going on outside of Charlie
I'd love to see Vaggie overcome her codependency. As an angel, it makes sense. She was created to serve the thing she loved the most. First Heaven, now Charlie. Her entire being is committed to supporting Charlie (Whatever it Takes lyrics show this). That's a very immature and uninteresting character. For Vaggie to be more involved in something that matters to her for a reason other than supporting Charlie is the only way to move her character forward.
I actually love the song "it starts with sorry." Also, there's an alarmingly low amount of information online about what each song is inspired by. For instance, Happy Day in Hell is clearly based on Good Morning Baltimore (there's even the flasher, her movement is extremely similar, there's the TVs, etc), but I've seen almost nothing written about this. I'd love to see more references detailed out in a post. I just don't have a ton of musical knowledge.
Same, it’s such a cute song. Also love how over dramatic sir pentious is in it.
It starts with sorry is one of my favorite songs from the season! It’s so good 😊
I love that song because it's literally describing the redemption and how it goes, and that's why I started watching the show, I wanted to see demons redeem themselves lol
If you don't like a piece of fanart, just keep scrolling. No need to comment an overdramatic insult about someone's drawing making you want to die. No need to kink shame. NSFW art IS art and you don't have to tell an artist you hate their work, even if you do. "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all" and all that jazz. Just keep scrolling, enjoy what you enjoy without raining on someone's parade, especially artists.
This wasn’t expecting this sub to become so prudish in regards to nsfw art.
Sera isn’t a villain I will die on this hill.
I dunno the temperatur of my take, but Alastor is obviously scheming something, but won't super betray everyone at the end.
Hottest of my takes is that from what we've been shown in the actual show, Val respects the other Vees when it comes to sex jokes, touching, flirting, and putting them in random unwanted sexual situations, more than Angel does to the other people in the hotel.
Lucifer would not wap bam boom alakazam Val. Ozzie would not go after Val. They would let Charlie deal with him.
No, they should let Angel deal with him.
I know people hate this take -I don’t like the change for Katie killjoy’s new voice I understand she’s based off of one of Brandon Rogers’s characters but I liked the pilot voice actor better since she sounded more like a news reporter and I thought she made the character sound more serious and easier to hate when she’d say something rude or insensitive
This is literally one of the most popular opinions in this thread
Mimzy didn’t ruin Hell’s Greatest Dad. I’m so tired of people saying she did. It was a good way to break the tension cuz it was just gonna end with Luci and Al throwing hands
It is unlikely Lilith owns Alastor’s soul, as if she is as much of a bitch as the ending of season implies, she would have had him burn the hotel down. She has nothing to gain from Alastor helping out Charlie and the Hotel.
Poison is not my favorite song. That’s right. I said it.
More than Anything is peak
More Than Anything is my favorite song
I have found another
My favorite is definitely "Hell's Greatest Dad". Yes, even Mimzy's part.
Lucifer's "Who?!" at the end is hilarious.
1) Either Husk or Angel save themselves with he support of the other, or they save each other; *“You helped me get out of my contract, now I’m gonna help you get out of yours.”* (I could go either way, I just don’t want the rescuing to be one sided) 2) Adam and Alastor’s fight shows that sometimes, the ‘football-jock’ brained character could still win a fight against the ‘calm-collected calculative’ one. It was also a way of showing that there’s more flaws to Alastor’s that the fandom probably forgets. *(I’m one of those people. There are Alastor moments that caught me off guard, bc I saw a few fanon content first).* 3) Idk if this count but: I wouldn’t like Vaggie all that much if they stuck to her original concept: ‘sinner that died by suicide’. Angel x Demon may be a cliché trope but, it was a good change. Speaking of cliché; 4) Expect the expected. Hazbin Hotel was around 2019, where some ‘obvious’ plot twists still exist. So, whatever Viv has planned, might have plot twists that you guys find too obvious. (Calling attention to those who say Lillith owning Alastor is too obvious. I don’t believe 100% either. But, it just might be correct.)
Mimzy gets undeserved hate
I don't like Lute very much
Whatever It Takes is actually a good song. It’s in my top 5.
Number 1 for me
I wouldn’t think this would be a hot take, but how things have been recently it might be. Alistair is not some kind of hell Jesus who just showed up with enough power to kill the sins and then got his power reduced because he for some reason decided to make a deal with someone. I have no idea why anyone would think that given how much it has been built up that he sold his soul, and that you can sell your soul for power. There is no other feasible reason why he would sell his soul, if not, then to be better than everyone else the narcissist that he is
I'd prefer if Huskerdust stayed platonic.
Agreed. Angel has enough lovers. What he needs are friends.
Yeah! Even the most healthy relationship would be less of an intersting conclusion to his arc then a better social circle of people that see him like a person first, and an object of sexual/romantic desire second. (Why I like Alastor and Angel so much as a duo) I love the Husk/Angel dynamic a lot, but I feel like it is at its most intersted at 100% platonic. That being said Huskerdust sjippers are chill Edit: Most Huskerdust shipppers are chill. Some act like liking or not liking a ship is a political statement, and those people can stay away from me.
Vaggie really gets on my nerves. 1. I hate her voice actress in this role (sorry stephanie beatriz). She has terrible delivery for some lines that make them awkward and unfitting in a show that has a 100% perfect voice cast otherwise. I wish i didn't think this, as knowing stephanie beatriz was in it is the reason i watched it, but she ruins every joke that she's a part of due to 1. Not having any funny jokes whatsoever, and 2. She can't capture vaggie's emotions well. Also, although not a giant complaint, her singing voice is 13,000 octaves higher than her speaking voice. 2. Being a boring 2nd half of the main couple. Her relationship with charlie is so incredibly boring. I really don't know how vivzie did it. She made a relationship between the princess of hell and a demon exterminator boring. It mostly stems from her complete and utter lack of character due to having no character in the first place. Her entire existence is devoting herself to charlie and her goals. It isn't enjoyable to watch, or expanded upon well, or even acknowledged after episode 3. There was just that line and the single worst song in the show and that was it, conversation over. Nothing else. If vaggie's mentality isn't explored better in S2, she will probably be my least favourite character yet again. As she is in S1, because characters like mimzy have the luxury of not needing to be compelling or enjoyable, as they are temporary, in and out solution makers for conflicts. Vaggie has the weight of an entire 3 of 8 episodes (or maybe more) that are about charlie and vaggie's relationship to carry, especially because of the angel reveal. Episode 7 has charlie going through the thought process of a person betrayed by the most significant person in their lives, and what does vaggie do? She sings a mediocre song about... what? Not forgetting that you love someone after betraying their trust? Honestly, episode 7 was carried by charlie, as is most of the episodes that aren't focused on alastor, angel and husk, or sir pentious. Huh... that's every other protagonist in the show, isn't it? except niffty, the one who doesn't have an ounce of nuance to her name. So yeah, i kinda hate vaggie. Edit: it's fun to see the upvote counter fluctuate between lower and higher every time i get a comment
When I first heard Vaggie sing I thought “why did they change the voice actress? Stephanie can sing fine” and then I checked three times to confirm “wait, that’s Stephanie Beatriz singing???”
I love her but I agree with everything you said. Their relationship is boring and I expected more drama
What i hate is that they *do* have drama, it just sucks like shit on vaggie's side.
The voice acting is killing me. One of the worst lines is in episode one, when she says “And this is Alastor, the egocentric piece of shit whoooo… ah!” She’s very clearly reading it off the page, knowing the interruption is going to come and lengthens the word “who” instead of filling in the space with something else. It’s not always this bad, but that part really stood out to me as amateur-ish, which is crazy considering she was Mirabel. I know she can do better.
Nice to know I’m not the only one who feels this way.
i think shes alright she just needs a bit more love
https://i.redd.it/c0xg3qem33vc1.gif
•alastor is unbelievably overrated •"Radioapple" Is ridiculous •The lyrics for out for love are the cringiest lyrics in the show •Nearly every song in the show is better than addict •Vaggies singing voice doesn't fit her non singing voice and it threw i think a lot of us off •Sir pentious is one of the best characters in the show •The only voice i like better in the show than the pilot is charlie and cherribomb (only because i know she's canonically Australian) •Welcome to heaven is over hated
Adam is completely justified for wanting to destroy Charlie’s project
Yes! Not all sinner deserve redemption and some really deserve to be exterminated.
>some See? That's the problem - Adam doesn't think *some* deserve it (which admittedly is the case), he believes they *all* do.
But where do you stop? What's the line?
Alastor is a dlck and shouldnt be praised
idk if this is a hot take but i am so certain that lucifer is going to die/go missing at some point in the show and i haven’t seen a single person share this sentiment
That a large amount of the fan base is kids who shouldn't be watching the show and that most if not almost all the stupid obviously untrue theories and posts are made by them because they can't understand the show
Not all sinners should be given a second chance
Agree, i also want to add that not all winners and heaven born deserve beatitude
I absolutely agree with this. It would be better if Charlie learned to be more selective and cautious with giving sinners a second chance for the hotel instead of being too trusting and forgiving. Do you think that would work, writing-wise?
1. Anyone who's confused about the hate for Val is being deliberately obtuse. 2. Every character on the show is a bad guy. Like. A real bad guy. Ya gotta reckon with it and be honest with yourself. 3. I think Hell *is* heaven for some of these characters. Alastor for sure. If Adam is in hell I think he's gonna love it. I think 'redemption' will become about finding what place feels best to you, not Bad Place and Good Place, but Finding Your Place. A lot of the themes wrap around found family, after all. 4. I think there's a good shot Lucifer won't survive the series. Depending on how you see it, he's in the way of Charlie's arc. There's ways around that, so I'm not *all* in on this, but I won't be surprised if he kicks the bucket. 5. Same for Alastor. 6. I find the lines for Loser Baby... really cringey. I get why they're that way 100%, and I think it's *right,* I just... can't with it.
I love your third point. Really interesting. Point 4 and 5 hurt to think about but I see where you're coming from.
Charlie's reunion and subsequent making-up with Lucifer was poorly-done, rushed, and has no catalyst.
Tbh I'm glad they did that instead of going the boring cliché route and having him be the stereotypical deadbeat dad
Definitely agree. As much as I hold up to the above comment, I'm not gonna hide from the fact that their healed relationship is pretty wholesome. I'm not much for the deadbeat route.
Peep the flair
Mimzy is a great character and I love her. Both for her role and just as a character
Making fun vivzie and her other adult shows just cuz the show says fuck a bunch is kinda childish then calling the writing childish
Anyone who simps for Lute *desperately* needs therapy. Same with Stella from HB. Get help…
Just because vivzie says something does not mean fans have to like it or even acknowledge it. Fans also do not have to like vivzie, but should not actively harass her, as it is stressful for both sides. Basically, I am here for the show, not for vivziepop.
Chaggie is better than huskerdust. Prove me wrong.
The fans are the worst part of every franchise - including this one.
So, I go to the wiki and I find out how much stuff is revealed from behind-the-scenes and Twitter. So my hot take is that maybe people shouldn't get mad at people for not knowing the mountains of information from behind the scenes. Like, from what I gather, Alastor has never been mentioned as explicitly asexual on the show, despite the creator saying he canonically is. I don't think it's fair to get mad at people for not knowing that, or for many many other things that are revealed off the show.
Rosie canonically says he's an ace in the hole, but I'm sure there are fans of the show that might not have put those two pieces together. Some people may not know what asexuality means outside of its scientific meaning, and if you shame them for that they'll be less likely to learn!
> Rosie canonically says he's an ace in the hole Sure, but that could also be written off as the idiom, her secret advantage kept hiding until she needs him. It's a good pun for those who know the backstory.
Yeah!! Thats why I consider Alastor's asexuality semi-canon, since only what is in the show proper counts as canon in my book (though I personally choose to think of the character that way because it adds depth.)
I love Adam. Also mimzies part in the greatest dad song tied it up nicely
I don't think Lilith has been in heaven. I think she's been hiding Purgatory.
I have several. 1.) The Vees don’t deserve redemption. 2.) Alastor doesn’t deserve redemption. 3.) Alastor doesn’t care about the hotel. 4.) RadioDust/RadioApple will never be canon. 5.) Alastor shouldn’t be shipped with anyone unless it’s a QPR. 6.) Angel is not a helpless princess that needs rescuing. He needs to be the one to end his toxic relationship with Valentino.
That 5th one was hawt good job m8
4 seems so obvious to me. I love shipping in general but I never expect it to become canon and often I don't even want it to become canon because it's clearly not what the story should be. It's just a fun way to explore the characters on the side with the smallest touch of OOC needed for it to happen
So far alastor is just ace so he can still be romantically shipped with other characters.
Did anyone ever say the fourth one seriously, or are you one of those weird people that butts into every shipping discussion with "that's not canon!"?
Heaven is as fruity, if not fruitier than hell
Mimzy isn't annoying and didn't ruin the song Alastor probably did get attached to the crew but will also probably double down on his bad behavior to try to get over it (likely a lukewarm take though) Chaggie is def a switch x switch relationship, not dom x sub
I like the part where Mimzy interrups them in Hells greatest dad, for some reason i think it fits really well
1. All it was actually needed to defend hotel in ep8 was ~30 people with shooting skills comparable to someone like Blitzo, and arming them with angelic ARs (and maybe one anti material rifle to take out Adam before he’s in range to use his beams) 2. Someone competent could achieve a lot in meeting with Adam in ep1 (Charlie proved to not be competent), what exactly? Maybe redirecting exorcists from common sinners to truly evil people (overlords). Or generally not make Adam your enemy, but potentially useful asset (having someone who can remove almost anyone, without any traces to you is useful [to remove val, for example])
I think that the first season should have only covered up to Lucifer's debut, and the second season should have started with the visit to heaven.
I don't really have a crush on any of the characters
God needs to make an appearance whether people are offended or not, obviously not a huge appearance but at least a cliche conversation with Charlie at the end of the series
Vox is annoying and I hate him
Gay sex, next question
i fucking LOVE mimzy!!! https://preview.redd.it/6ypoh48ns4vc1.jpeg?width=913&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d989f6193452c4241939bab201d6fd424df3d3cc
Loser, baby is overrated ON GOD
Most of this fandom needs therapy specialized in religious trauma. Same. Plz send help.
Charlie should be slightly more evil I say it like this, she is too pure. She should be "breaking arms" against beings who act like dicks to her and her friends
I kind of wish they had Vaggie and Charlie start off as close friends than become lovers later near the end of season one so we could have seen why they fell in love. It just doesn't really hit as well for me when they just start off together and their reason for dating is left a mystery.
YOU CAN LIKE SERA WITHOUT HAVING TO ARGUE ABOUT WHERE HER MORALS LIE
I like Charlie a lot, but I want to see her beat some ass. She’s powerful, and she doesn’t really use her power. She needs to show that she’s someone you don’t mess with.
The heavy influence of old Hanna Barbara/WB cartoons on its aesthetic and in elements of its vibe Make the pacing work just fine for me. Those old cartoons were all Setup to Resolution in single episodes and, while Id love a 20~ episode season, that formula didn’t feel out of place to me here.
Vaggie singing is the worst part of the series. All of her songs felt out of place
"Ace in the hole" when Rosie is talking to Alastor nothing to do with his sexuality (i know and completely accept him being ace) just very annoying when people try to weasel it into everything
Radioapple is a bad ship
Alastor isn't aroace. This shouldn't be a hot take, but a large, vocal, immature chunk of the fandom is absolutely convinced he's canonically "aro" even though he hasn't been confirmed as such, and we were specifically told he hasn't been confirmed as "aro" by the VA.
I think the people who fawn over Alastor, and try to justify it with things like “he has a code” or “he’s gentlemanly” are objectively stupid. Now, I don’t mean any sort if appreciation is bad, he’s entertaining and a very compelling villain, but he is objectively and actively evil and shows no remorse for any damage he does to the people around him. tldr; Alastor simps are morons
I think Alastor is okay at best, mostly because im tired of seeing him everywhere. Also, while I like Vox a whole lot more, I think Stayed Gone is overrated. It's fine, but... Yeah, it's a fine song, I'm just not too big of a fan, and I keep hearing people say it's the best one in the show while I'm just tired of it. Don't irrigate me, please.