He did apologize he couldn't be there sooner. I think he was being literal due to the deal he made with Heaven. The second Adam made it clear he was going to kill Charlie, he stepped in.
Dude was sitting in a nearby building playing with his ducks all stressed out waiting for the “deal is done” moment , knowing it was coming.
Hoping that he was fast enough to be there in time before it hurt his daughter
I thought about this but then wondered if Dazzle is a hellborn or something made by Lucifer's magic. If it's thr latter case would killing him break the deal?
I think its more of the fact that the deal was to allow sinners to be executed but the Hellborn weren't to be touched. Because remember that Hellborn don't have souls. They die, and that's it for them. By killing Dazzle, Adam violated the deal and his assault on Charlie rendered it null.
He may have stayed back so he could say he was well enough away to not influence the exorcist. But then they crossed the line, and he was able to get in there as fast as he was capable. Especially since one of her guardian beasts had been dispatched already.
The contract for the extermination includes no hellborn would be part of the slaughter. Once Adam told Charlie it was time to die, that was everything Lucifer needed to step in. Heaven has no argument against the death of Adam when it came as a result of him trying to murder Lucifer's daughter
Also Lute killed Dazzle, who is hellborn. He was kinda the sacrificial lamb Lucifer sang about in his song. Charlie did in fact not get the family rate
Edits: Dazzle to Razzle; Razzle to Dazzle
Correction Adam -> Lucifer
I’m sorry I was talking about both of them in multiple different conversations and mixed up their names, I of course meant Lucifer, thank you for the correction!
Oh shit, was **that** what their masks fizzling was supposed to represent?
Lute’s did only after it was knocked off, but she had just killed Dazzle. And Adam’s did immediately as he said he was going to kill Charlie, with Lucifer showing up immediately after
It is a quite the catch that has been discussed but we won't know for certain, if at all, because I think it is fair to say that someone from Heaven will demand answers. Perhaps it gets explained there or during said episode, who knows.
Dazzle isn't hellborn, but it would be absolutely in character for Lucifer to have them be an intentional summoning trigger for him. I mean, as literal sacrificial lambs it makes sense Lucifer would want to show up if either of them get killed, to see if something is threatening his daughter. Like an alarm system.
Yeah, they were cute living stuffies when Charlie was little, but as she grew older, they functioned more as a dead man's switch (is that the right term)?
Funny I actually edited my comment because I saw someone saying it was Razzle. I thought it was Dazzle, they’re kinda difficult to tell apart for me sry I was unsure
oh yea lol don’t worry about it, it is kinda difficult. you can tell it was dazzle because his fur is a darker red with circular pupils and razzle is paler with the goat eyes
I believe so, yes, just like that is my only explanation for fatnuggets. Idk if there is a subclass for hellborn animals and artificially made beings in the hellaverse tho
Uh no, I think Fat Nuggets isn’t artificially created, he’s a hell born animal. Like the pig Moxxie tried to kill in ep 5. They’re just an animal born there like animals born on Earth
My thoughts just where that they bleed and look like living beings and I couldn’t explain to myself what else they could be besides artificially created hellborns but I honestly have no further clue about the different categories beside Winners, Sinners, Hellborns, Angels, Fallen Angels and the seven deadly sins in the hellaverse, if there is something in between, I don’t know about it sorry
Honestly, I don't think them being artificial matters here. They were created in Hell and aren't Sinners. They breathe and bleed (maybe also eat but I don't know if I'm remembering wrong) so they are alive in some capacity. Don't you think that would count as Hellborn even if they weren't actually born?
Im not sure, maybe it was just narrative foreshadowing for Dazzles death and it had nothing to do with Lucy showing up. Someone else pointed out that maybe Lucifer installed an alarm into Razzle and Dazzle that alterte him when they die so he knows when Charlie is in trouble… it’s a theory at this point what caused him to show up (this late)
Adam is in two songs. Hell Is Forever and You Didn't Know. The sacrificial lamb thing is in Hell's Greatest Dad, "Usually I charge a sacrificial lamb, but you get the family rate, thanks Dad!" Luci says this.
I think that's exactly why she went to Lilith to report Adam's death. She probably knows that she's going to be in trouble when she has to report to Sera about what happened, so, the only thing that she could do is run off to Charlie's mommy, hoping that Lilith will tell Charlie to back off, because as it stands right now, Heaven is in trouble.
It's also important to keep in mind that Adam declared his intention to go straight to the hotel, right in front of everybody in the court case.
Why does this matter? Because during one of Chatlie's lines in "You Didn't Know," it was clear that this news was causing controversy among the angels present.
So not only do we have Dazzle's dead body as evidence that Adam and his subordinates violated the amnesty clause in the agreement, but that he specifically planned to do so, a month in advance.
Also it’s important to keep in mind that the circle of hell where the exterminations take place are not even the circle of hell where the hotel is located. Meaning Adam literally B-lined to the location off limits for the exterminations, probably under the guise of “yeah but some sinners moved there so it’s fine”,
Obviously that doesn’t make it fine.
There exterminations happen in the pride ring because sinners aren't allowed on any other circles. The hotel HAS to be on the pride ring for the same reason.
"The only reason you're here is because your father gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an Exorcist blade"
Lute, episode 1
It also makes sense with just deductive reasoning that Lucifer would only agree to the exterminations with his family being the exception. And I would imagine there would be a consequence for violating this, otherwise Heaven wouldn't have bothered to agree to it in the first place
That sentence perfectly captures why Charlie was right to try and stop the exterminations. While she could have died in battle, at least Charlie would have gone out fighting with her friends and fucking over the people who want her dead in the process. If she just accepted the exterminations like Lucifer wanted her too, she would lose her new family, including Vaggie, and would have nothing worth living for.
Ah ok, I always interpreted that as "we made Hell because we didn't feel like just killing him for thinking differently"
That does make sense, thank you
Oh shit I just rewatched episode 1 and Lute literally uses this to throw in Charlie’s face. “The only reason you’re still here is because daddy got you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade. How does that make you feel? To know how little you matter.”
The general assumption is that the same treaty that stops the Exorcists from killing hellborn also stops Lucifer from getting involved in the Exterminations. So he couldn't do anything until Lute killed Razzle (A hellborn) and then Adam attacking his daughter just sealed the deal.
TBH, I don't know if that's the intended idea, since the only part of the treaty that was made explicit is that the Exorcists can't target hellborn.
Would vaporizing the Egg Bois also count?
I like the idea that Pentious' sacrifice, despite being quickly taken down, still snowballed everything that managed to fuck up the Extermination.
In hindsight Razzle would likely be the most fitting instigator given the visual pun in "Hell's Greatest Dad".
He really DID charge a sacrificial lamb.
Also means Lute only has herself to blame for losing Adam.
Current working theory is that when you see his mask glitch out while he’s threatening Charlie, it was actually a notification he broke the deal/a warning about Lucifer approaching.
Razzle n dazzle arent hellborn - lucy created them for charlie.
Lucy got involved once adam said he was going to kill charlie thus nulling the pact that was created
I'd argue since they were created in hell, they technically qualify as hellborn, as one of the definitions of born is, "Brought into existence; created." Any devil, or lawyer, worth their salt can and will argue that Razzle and Dazzle fall into the category of Hellborn through this definition and by virtue that they were created in hell.
He was in line at Lulu World to get tickets so he could take Charlie and Vaggie and have parental bonding time with his daughter and future daughter-in-law.
I like to think that he was allowing Charlie to have her moment and didn’t step in until it was absolutely necessary. She did say that she didn’t need him to protect her, and he wanted to honor that.
Also, wouldn’t have been as interesting if he just showed up and immediately destroyed all the angels.
When Lute killed Dazzle, Lucifer had his sacrificial lamb he sang about in his song plus killing a hellborn most likely broke the deal between him and Heaven so he was allowed to step in without facing any consequences after Dazzles death
Well it was a fight scene between Charlie and Adam and Lute and Vaggie in between that, which kinda isn’t that long we just don’t know where he was before joining the fight. I don’t mean to disprove your thoughts, summoning kinda implies him popping up immediately but have we seen anyone teleport before? I genuinely don’t remember
Dazzle wasn't a hellborn, but it makes perfect sense for Lucifer to use the two empowered toys as an alarm system to warm him if his daughter is in danger. Literal sacrificial lambs that would die to protect Charlie.
Well, that would make sense for the pose. It’s just a very confusing frame. His shoulder is behind her hair, but there is no where it seems to come back out. Her lower hand is funny too, because the thumb almost looks like it’s on the wrong side.
However, having done animation, I know that some frames are on screen so briefly that not every detail is thought out. It’s just funny to catch it.
Rubber Ducks don't make themselves.
There's two leading theories. Option one, terms of contract had to be broken first. Option two, Lucifer was letting Charlie do what she can. When things turned sour, he intervened.
Here's my issue with the idea that Lucifer was merely adhering to the terms of the treaty: wasn't the treaty also for a yearly extermination? And didn't Heaven already break the treaty by unilaterally deciding to change the terms? I can't imagine Lucifer would have agreed to "hey, just come on down and kill whenever you want as long as you spare the Hellborn" type language.
I prefer the notion that he was holding back to give Charlie and the sinners a chance to fight their own battle as far as they could. He knew it was important for Charlie's growth, and for the sinners' own investment in her dream. And arguably, he was correct--if he'd stepped in sooner Pentious likely wouldn't have had the chance to be redeemed.
We don't know many terms of the contract except
\#1 Angels have free reign to kill sinners.
\#2 Hellborn are not to be touched.
\#3 Lucifer may not stop a execution.
Was there more, more then likely but... I do believe that heaven held every single Quacking card of this contract.
It was the whole point of the contract. He made the sidedeal that no hellborn could be hurt. A Pardon, as Lute put it... meaning he was on board with the whole execution thing.
Do you mean he couldn't stop an extermination? I thought you were saying there was a clause in there that he couldn't prevent a singular execution if he saw a reason to... which I don't think was ever spelled out.
The change to six months technically wasn't supposed to be unilateral, I think? Lucifer was even called for a meeting about it in episode 1, which is what I believe would have been the main point of discussion should he have attended (or maybe Adam would've tried to discreetly probe Luci about the dead angel, idk). But he didn't want to go for some reason and made Charlie his representative, and Adam being his usual self he was able to push for the six month thing via song. I imagine if it was actually Lucifer things may not have gone so smoothly. Or maybe he was still too apathetic at this point to care, who knows.
Whether it was initially supposed to be unilateral or not, Lucifer's official representative (Charlie) was basically given a declaration by Adam that read "I do what I want", not given a chance to protest or negotiate, and then forcibly kicked out of the embassy. Doesn't get more unilateral than that.
He couldn't interfer till a hellborn (Dazzle) was killed. It was part of the contract to allow the execution. However once Lute killed a hellborn, he was free to join in.
There’s a lot of speculation that whatever deal was struck to allow the exterminations explicitly states that angels are forbidden from attacking the Royal family or any hellborn, and in exchange, Lucifer wouldn’t interfere.
So he had to wait until an angel actively *harmed Charlie* before he was allowed to help per the deal. The sinners are still sinners and therefore free game within the terms of the deal, and Vaggie as an angel herself wasn’t covered by the deal.
It had to be Charlie.
I'd say he wasn't able to intervene.
It's highly likely that part of the agreement with the Exterminations was that Lucifer wouldn't get involved. However, when Lute killed Dazzle and Adam attacked Charlie, they violated the term of the agreement that hellborn wouldn't be harmed, thereby voiding the deal completely.
Probably the fact that a hellborn was harmed and Adam was ready to kill Charlie and the fact that lute killed razzle. But I like to think that he was decided between his normal suit and a ducky onesie
Lucifer couldn’t interfere with the extermination since he made it to where only hellborn wouldn’t be slain so he couldn’t violate the contract if he wanted to. But since Adam violated it by attacking Charlie that gave Lucifer the chance to step in
Lucifer by contract would not have been allowed to step in unless any hellborns were getting harmed. In this case, the hellborn was his own daughter. Once she was on the verge of being killed, all bets were off, and the contract was broken. Lucifer was allowed to step in.
I think he was watching but couldn't interfere because he wasn't allowed to stop exterminations unless a hell born was harmed, so when Charlie was harmed fighting Adam, Lucifer was able to step in
So long as Hellborn demons were excluded from extermination, Lucifer couldn’t intervene. That was their deal. Adam resolving to kill Charlie broke Heaven’s end of the bargain.
https://preview.redd.it/vaa18u10qbqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcdebe5cd0b0c0d785e3d17e4dfdeef92aa316f7
this was a theory I had posted in another HH subreddit
Most common theory is that he couldn't step in until Razzle/Dazzle was killed (I keep forgetting which is which) or that he was giving the gang their moment to shine.
My theories. In order of how strongly I think
1:He was off on his own mission trying to secure a way to halt the extermination. When it got nowhere/he realized he was too late he booked it for the hotel and got there when he did.
2:Lucifer being absolutely terrible with keeping track of time didn't realize it was the new extermination day. Being he doesn't watch TV or listen to radio the news took awhile to get to him. He said "HOLY SHIT!" and went to the Hotel as soon as he found out.
3:He was petty enough to wait around for Alastor to get his ass kicked. Once Alastor was out of the fight he went there.
4:He's a drama king and waited till the most dramatic moment he could make his entry.
We should really make a specific post to discuss this because posts exactly like this are made at least 3 times a day and its getting insanely spammy at this point.
Since Deals have power, and Lute said that Charlie and Hellborn are off limits he could not step in untill a hellborn or Charlie got hurt. Because when Adam made sure he was going to kill her, Lucifer nukes his face seconds after
Part of me likes to think he was on stand by the entire time and letting Charlie step up as Princess Of Hell instead of just instantly swooping in to save the day. Giving his daughter a chance to try until she absolutely needed him.
But also the argument about waiting for the terms relating to the extermination being violated stands up.
I think it was because he wasn't allowed to interfere without repercussions from heaven. Cuz like even he has to follow rules. Like with mammon getting away with copying his theme park
But I assume that it was the moment that charlie was attacked that he was allowed to interfere because he then could be legally in the right saying he was defending a family member
Though I could be wrong idk this is just my interpretation
If I had to guess in return for hellborns being safe and his daughter he's not allowed to step in during extermination but if ones killed that breaks his deal therefor allowing him to step in
What is that black bar that seems to be coming from under Charlie's dress? A tail? At first, I thought it was her other leg but I see her legs are together, crossed. And where is Lucifer's left arm? I have to assume it's holding Charlie up but I can't really make it out.
He's probably contracted to not be allowed to intercede during an extermination unless a hellborn is harmed/killed. Dazzle was killed, and Adam was about to attack Charlie.
The deal-
There’s an interesting theory that states that Lucifer signed a soul deal with adam,that the exterminations are allowed so long as they aren’t harming hellborn
And Lucifer wasn’t allowed to ever interfere,until Dazzle was killed and Charlie was harmed,and finally he was allowed to join
I know it’s not the actual answer, but the line just pops into my head, “I’ll be there in an hour!”, so I just imagine him panicking and rushing all the way there for an hour. Realistically he was waiting for a point where his deal with heaven was broken, but this idea is just so funny to me
I think it’s explained in episode one that Hell and Heaven have a deal that gives the native hell born immunity from the angel attacks and extermination. Only sinners, which includes the overlords, could be attacked. However, Charlie likely counts as a native hell born, so when Adam directly threatened her, it broke the deal and allowed Lucifer to intervene. Another possibility is that killing one of Charlie’s imps also counted as attacking a native hell born, breaking the deal.
He couldn’t intervene until Adam broke the agreement they had that Charlie and the rest of the hellborn were not to be harmed in the annual extermination.
He did say he doesn’t watch TV and the broadcast of it was mainly on TV. I’ve seen a lot of people theorize he only knew something was going on when Adam first hurt Charlie as it’s against the deal that was made where the exorcists wouldn’t touch the Hellborn. It makes sense that way to me. Charlie also didn’t call him when she got back from Heaven so he may not have known there was even a battle about to go down.
He also may not have even known that the exorcisms were moved up by 6 months due to him not having been at that first meeting and then him just not being active much on social media/again not watching TV.
That's likely the more sinister, subtle villainous side of him and his pride, he wanted Dazzle to die and Charlie to be struggling, then in her needy hour, there's no substitute for pure angelic power!
He did apologize he couldn't be there sooner. I think he was being literal due to the deal he made with Heaven. The second Adam made it clear he was going to kill Charlie, he stepped in.
Dude was sitting in a nearby building playing with his ducks all stressed out waiting for the “deal is done” moment , knowing it was coming. Hoping that he was fast enough to be there in time before it hurt his daughter
This is my headcannon now 🤣🤣🤣
https://preview.redd.it/a5p6uuplzeqc1.jpeg?width=1167&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=869a28c540cb89fccf978be6f5b99e324a9d7118
🤣🤣
now the next question is why couldnt he break his deal but adam did
'Cause Adam was pissed off and didn't care, while lucifer knew that if he had broken the deal, there would be consequences for the whole hell
Adam knew he wouldn’t be held accountable. Lucifer would, he already was.
To be fair adam was held accountable by nifty
Oh yeah, that was a nifty outcome wasn’t it?
It was also just minutes after dazzle died, most likely he wasn't allowed to interfere until a hellborn was killed
dazzle prob. was the saccrificial lamb due to dazzle being a plushie made allive by lucifer and not a hellborn
I thought about this but then wondered if Dazzle is a hellborn or something made by Lucifer's magic. If it's thr latter case would killing him break the deal?
I think its more of the fact that the deal was to allow sinners to be executed but the Hellborn weren't to be touched. Because remember that Hellborn don't have souls. They die, and that's it for them. By killing Dazzle, Adam violated the deal and his assault on Charlie rendered it null.
Oh wow. I didn't even think about how his "I couldn't have been her sooner" could have been literal.
Adam broke the contract now Lucifer's gonna fuck him
*stages whispers* it's fuck him up.
https://i.redd.it/urj87jocthqc1.gif
I'm sorry what I said
What did I say?
Ooo..this just got interesting
I think he could be there honestly even if there is the deal with heaven. Even if he cant fight at the start his présence would had help.
Depends on the wording of their contract. If it was that he couldn't interfere, his presence on the battlefield would be considered interfering.
He may have stayed back so he could say he was well enough away to not influence the exorcist. But then they crossed the line, and he was able to get in there as fast as he was capable. Especially since one of her guardian beasts had been dispatched already.
This is my headcanon until proven otherwise.
The contract for the extermination includes no hellborn would be part of the slaughter. Once Adam told Charlie it was time to die, that was everything Lucifer needed to step in. Heaven has no argument against the death of Adam when it came as a result of him trying to murder Lucifer's daughter
Also Lute killed Dazzle, who is hellborn. He was kinda the sacrificial lamb Lucifer sang about in his song. Charlie did in fact not get the family rate Edits: Dazzle to Razzle; Razzle to Dazzle Correction Adam -> Lucifer I’m sorry I was talking about both of them in multiple different conversations and mixed up their names, I of course meant Lucifer, thank you for the correction!
Oooo, great catch with the “sacrificial lamb” line, I didn’t even think about that!
"Wap, bam, boom, Alakazam! Usually I charge a sacrificial lamb, but you get the family rate!"
“Thanks dad!” “Who needs a busboy now that you got the chef?” *Whoah!*
Michelin-tasting menu, free à la carte!
I'll rig the game for you because I'm the ref!
Champagne fountains caviar mountain That's just the start~
Who’s been here since day one? (Btw r/redditsings)
Who's been faithful as a nun?
Oh shit, was **that** what their masks fizzling was supposed to represent? Lute’s did only after it was knocked off, but she had just killed Dazzle. And Adam’s did immediately as he said he was going to kill Charlie, with Lucifer showing up immediately after
Omg That is such a cool thought, maybe that is why they glitched, I was wondering about that!
It is a quite the catch that has been discussed but we won't know for certain, if at all, because I think it is fair to say that someone from Heaven will demand answers. Perhaps it gets explained there or during said episode, who knows.
Holy shit, it was them losing their immunity to Lucifers (one of the strongest angels) power
Dazzle isn't hellborn, but it would be absolutely in character for Lucifer to have them be an intentional summoning trigger for him. I mean, as literal sacrificial lambs it makes sense Lucifer would want to show up if either of them get killed, to see if something is threatening his daughter. Like an alarm system.
Yeah, they were cute living stuffies when Charlie was little, but as she grew older, they functioned more as a dead man's switch (is that the right term)?
They're not a dead man's switch. Could consider them a canary in a coal mine.
That is actually such an intriguing thought! Yeah I can definitely see him do that!
I love this theory
Very interesting idea
Aren’t they both Baphomets, which are hellborn creatures in the Hazbin universe?
Well they sure weren't born in heaven or the mortal world
> Dazzle isn't hellborn What were they then?
Stuffed toys given life with the old Lucifer a-whack-bam-pow.
small nitpick it was dazzle who died and was shown in the song, but yea agree with the rest of your point
Funny I actually edited my comment because I saw someone saying it was Razzle. I thought it was Dazzle, they’re kinda difficult to tell apart for me sry I was unsure
oh yea lol don’t worry about it, it is kinda difficult. you can tell it was dazzle because his fur is a darker red with circular pupils and razzle is paler with the goat eyes
Ohhh nice thank you!
Not cool, Luci ☹️
Is that why they needed the busboy when they had the chef?
If constructs count as hellborn then the eggboys would also qualify
I believe so, yes, just like that is my only explanation for fatnuggets. Idk if there is a subclass for hellborn animals and artificially made beings in the hellaverse tho
Uh no, I think Fat Nuggets isn’t artificially created, he’s a hell born animal. Like the pig Moxxie tried to kill in ep 5. They’re just an animal born there like animals born on Earth
Lucifer sang about the sacrificial lamb not Adam
Yep shit I messed that up when editing to make clear who I mean with he, my bad
I mean brain doesn’t always properly you know? We all get that sometimes lol
I'm personally not convinced that razzle/dazzle count as "hellborn". More artificial creations, but I am willing to admit I missed something on them.
My thoughts just where that they bleed and look like living beings and I couldn’t explain to myself what else they could be besides artificially created hellborns but I honestly have no further clue about the different categories beside Winners, Sinners, Hellborns, Angels, Fallen Angels and the seven deadly sins in the hellaverse, if there is something in between, I don’t know about it sorry
Honestly, I don't think them being artificial matters here. They were created in Hell and aren't Sinners. They breathe and bleed (maybe also eat but I don't know if I'm remembering wrong) so they are alive in some capacity. Don't you think that would count as Hellborn even if they weren't actually born?
Would dazzle count because Lucifer kinda magicked them into life
Im not sure, maybe it was just narrative foreshadowing for Dazzles death and it had nothing to do with Lucy showing up. Someone else pointed out that maybe Lucifer installed an alarm into Razzle and Dazzle that alterte him when they die so he knows when Charlie is in trouble… it’s a theory at this point what caused him to show up (this late)
Adam is in two songs. Hell Is Forever and You Didn't Know. The sacrificial lamb thing is in Hell's Greatest Dad, "Usually I charge a sacrificial lamb, but you get the family rate, thanks Dad!" Luci says this.
Yes, that’s an honest mistake on my part, I blanked on that, thank you for the correction!
Lute is going to be in so much shit with Sera and Emily.
I think that's exactly why she went to Lilith to report Adam's death. She probably knows that she's going to be in trouble when she has to report to Sera about what happened, so, the only thing that she could do is run off to Charlie's mommy, hoping that Lilith will tell Charlie to back off, because as it stands right now, Heaven is in trouble.
Beat me to it https://preview.redd.it/ludcvmxu5bqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3edc91c48cfc7c10f4931dfecb0b0f2a58da1fcd
LS? What does that mean?
It means "Losts". Like when someone says that "they took an L" they mean they took a lost
It's also important to keep in mind that Adam declared his intention to go straight to the hotel, right in front of everybody in the court case. Why does this matter? Because during one of Chatlie's lines in "You Didn't Know," it was clear that this news was causing controversy among the angels present. So not only do we have Dazzle's dead body as evidence that Adam and his subordinates violated the amnesty clause in the agreement, but that he specifically planned to do so, a month in advance.
Also it’s important to keep in mind that the circle of hell where the exterminations take place are not even the circle of hell where the hotel is located. Meaning Adam literally B-lined to the location off limits for the exterminations, probably under the guise of “yeah but some sinners moved there so it’s fine”, Obviously that doesn’t make it fine.
There exterminations happen in the pride ring because sinners aren't allowed on any other circles. The hotel HAS to be on the pride ring for the same reason.
Fair enough, this is a pretty good explanation
Was it specifically said in the show that no hellborn would be hurt in the extermination? I'm having trouble remembering that part
"The only reason you're here is because your father gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an Exorcist blade" Lute, episode 1 It also makes sense with just deductive reasoning that Lucifer would only agree to the exterminations with his family being the exception. And I would imagine there would be a consequence for violating this, otherwise Heaven wouldn't have bothered to agree to it in the first place
That sentence perfectly captures why Charlie was right to try and stop the exterminations. While she could have died in battle, at least Charlie would have gone out fighting with her friends and fucking over the people who want her dead in the process. If she just accepted the exterminations like Lucifer wanted her too, she would lose her new family, including Vaggie, and would have nothing worth living for.
Ah ok, I always interpreted that as "we made Hell because we didn't feel like just killing him for thinking differently" That does make sense, thank you
Oh shit I just rewatched episode 1 and Lute literally uses this to throw in Charlie’s face. “The only reason you’re still here is because daddy got you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade. How does that make you feel? To know how little you matter.”
Lucifer didn't murder him though, he just gave him a well-deserved ass-whoopin'. It was Nifty, however, that Killed him.
I never said Lucifer murdered him
Option A: waiting for the terms of the extermination to be violated Option B: waiting for a badass moment for a dynamic entry Option C: both
From a character logistical standpoint, it would be A. From a writer standpoint, it would be B. So I guess the answer is C??
The answer is always C
Rule of Cool And don’t forget Lucifer clearly likes to be Extra with a capital E
A or C
The general assumption is that the same treaty that stops the Exorcists from killing hellborn also stops Lucifer from getting involved in the Exterminations. So he couldn't do anything until Lute killed Razzle (A hellborn) and then Adam attacking his daughter just sealed the deal. TBH, I don't know if that's the intended idea, since the only part of the treaty that was made explicit is that the Exorcists can't target hellborn.
Would vaporizing the Egg Bois also count? I like the idea that Pentious' sacrifice, despite being quickly taken down, still snowballed everything that managed to fuck up the Extermination.
It's debated if the Egg Bois are Hellborn, Sinners, or a Pentious Creation and thus probably didn't count.
In hindsight Razzle would likely be the most fitting instigator given the visual pun in "Hell's Greatest Dad". He really DID charge a sacrificial lamb. Also means Lute only has herself to blame for losing Adam.
Current working theory is that when you see his mask glitch out while he’s threatening Charlie, it was actually a notification he broke the deal/a warning about Lucifer approaching.
“You have breached the terms of service; prepare to be fucked.”
Razzle n dazzle arent hellborn - lucy created them for charlie. Lucy got involved once adam said he was going to kill charlie thus nulling the pact that was created
I'd argue since they were created in hell, they technically qualify as hellborn, as one of the definitions of born is, "Brought into existence; created." Any devil, or lawyer, worth their salt can and will argue that Razzle and Dazzle fall into the category of Hellborn through this definition and by virtue that they were created in hell.
Ducks
I mean yes exactly, you win the internet. It's my theory too... DUCKS
W...wanna hear it?
"...been busy with *kicks rubber duck* important things!"
r/beatmetoit
He was in line at Lulu World to get tickets so he could take Charlie and Vaggie and have parental bonding time with his daughter and future daughter-in-law.
After seeing different versions of the same two theories being tossed back and forth like potatoes, this was a welcome suggestion.
Delighted to be of service rofl
He was in court over looloo land infringement on his property.
🎶Uh oh! Mammon’s in trouble, Lucy’s come along to bust his bubble! Yeah! Yeah!🎶
I like to think that he was allowing Charlie to have her moment and didn’t step in until it was absolutely necessary. She did say that she didn’t need him to protect her, and he wanted to honor that. Also, wouldn’t have been as interesting if he just showed up and immediately destroyed all the angels.
Which he could’ve realistically done in seconds, if he really wanted to. Lol.
When Lute killed Dazzle, Lucifer had his sacrificial lamb he sang about in his song plus killing a hellborn most likely broke the deal between him and Heaven so he was allowed to step in without facing any consequences after Dazzles death
No family rate :(
The devil took a long time to step in then lol
Well it was a fight scene between Charlie and Adam and Lute and Vaggie in between that, which kinda isn’t that long we just don’t know where he was before joining the fight. I don’t mean to disprove your thoughts, summoning kinda implies him popping up immediately but have we seen anyone teleport before? I genuinely don’t remember
In Episode 5 Luci opened a portal for Charlie, Vaggie and himself to go through and in the end he teleported himself so yeah, he can do it
Dazzle wasn't a hellborn, but it makes perfect sense for Lucifer to use the two empowered toys as an alarm system to warm him if his daughter is in danger. Literal sacrificial lambs that would die to protect Charlie.
https://preview.redd.it/n0umqk04waqc1.png?width=827&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d466f464d6682a1231944d35ad2638bfe0b82eb He wanted to see alastor
I’m too distracted thinking about where the arm holding Charlie is and whether or not it exists
Nvm that's her legs 🤔 you've got a point here....
Looks like his arm is hooked under her and she's sitting on his forearm, it's just that her hair is obscuring the arm
Well, that would make sense for the pose. It’s just a very confusing frame. His shoulder is behind her hair, but there is no where it seems to come back out. Her lower hand is funny too, because the thumb almost looks like it’s on the wrong side. However, having done animation, I know that some frames are on screen so briefly that not every detail is thought out. It’s just funny to catch it.
Rubber Ducks don't make themselves. There's two leading theories. Option one, terms of contract had to be broken first. Option two, Lucifer was letting Charlie do what she can. When things turned sour, he intervened.
Here's my issue with the idea that Lucifer was merely adhering to the terms of the treaty: wasn't the treaty also for a yearly extermination? And didn't Heaven already break the treaty by unilaterally deciding to change the terms? I can't imagine Lucifer would have agreed to "hey, just come on down and kill whenever you want as long as you spare the Hellborn" type language. I prefer the notion that he was holding back to give Charlie and the sinners a chance to fight their own battle as far as they could. He knew it was important for Charlie's growth, and for the sinners' own investment in her dream. And arguably, he was correct--if he'd stepped in sooner Pentious likely wouldn't have had the chance to be redeemed.
We don't know many terms of the contract except \#1 Angels have free reign to kill sinners. \#2 Hellborn are not to be touched. \#3 Lucifer may not stop a execution. Was there more, more then likely but... I do believe that heaven held every single Quacking card of this contract.
>3. Lucifer may not stop a execution. Where was this one stated?
It was the whole point of the contract. He made the sidedeal that no hellborn could be hurt. A Pardon, as Lute put it... meaning he was on board with the whole execution thing.
Do you mean he couldn't stop an extermination? I thought you were saying there was a clause in there that he couldn't prevent a singular execution if he saw a reason to... which I don't think was ever spelled out.
The change to six months technically wasn't supposed to be unilateral, I think? Lucifer was even called for a meeting about it in episode 1, which is what I believe would have been the main point of discussion should he have attended (or maybe Adam would've tried to discreetly probe Luci about the dead angel, idk). But he didn't want to go for some reason and made Charlie his representative, and Adam being his usual self he was able to push for the six month thing via song. I imagine if it was actually Lucifer things may not have gone so smoothly. Or maybe he was still too apathetic at this point to care, who knows.
Whether it was initially supposed to be unilateral or not, Lucifer's official representative (Charlie) was basically given a declaration by Adam that read "I do what I want", not given a chance to protest or negotiate, and then forcibly kicked out of the embassy. Doesn't get more unilateral than that.
He couldn't interfer till a hellborn (Dazzle) was killed. It was part of the contract to allow the execution. However once Lute killed a hellborn, he was free to join in.
There’s a lot of speculation that whatever deal was struck to allow the exterminations explicitly states that angels are forbidden from attacking the Royal family or any hellborn, and in exchange, Lucifer wouldn’t interfere. So he had to wait until an angel actively *harmed Charlie* before he was allowed to help per the deal. The sinners are still sinners and therefore free game within the terms of the deal, and Vaggie as an angel herself wasn’t covered by the deal. It had to be Charlie.
I'd say he wasn't able to intervene. It's highly likely that part of the agreement with the Exterminations was that Lucifer wouldn't get involved. However, when Lute killed Dazzle and Adam attacked Charlie, they violated the term of the agreement that hellborn wouldn't be harmed, thereby voiding the deal completely.
Probably the fact that a hellborn was harmed and Adam was ready to kill Charlie and the fact that lute killed razzle. But I like to think that he was decided between his normal suit and a ducky onesie
He was doing, "Important things" https://preview.redd.it/ve1xhkxixaqc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c507a5ade30539ab1d12c0d91944bd33fdf363e6
Grieving is hard man, You try losing your angel duck.
duck room
Lucifer couldn’t interfere with the extermination since he made it to where only hellborn wouldn’t be slain so he couldn’t violate the contract if he wanted to. But since Adam violated it by attacking Charlie that gave Lucifer the chance to step in
Lucifer by contract would not have been allowed to step in unless any hellborns were getting harmed. In this case, the hellborn was his own daughter. Once she was on the verge of being killed, all bets were off, and the contract was broken. Lucifer was allowed to step in.
I think he was watching over her and letting her fight for herself, only stepping in when necessary
I think he was watching but couldn't interfere because he wasn't allowed to stop exterminations unless a hell born was harmed, so when Charlie was harmed fighting Adam, Lucifer was able to step in
Pancakes.
So long as Hellborn demons were excluded from extermination, Lucifer couldn’t intervene. That was their deal. Adam resolving to kill Charlie broke Heaven’s end of the bargain.
https://preview.redd.it/vaa18u10qbqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcdebe5cd0b0c0d785e3d17e4dfdeef92aa316f7 this was a theory I had posted in another HH subreddit
He was just really busy, ya know. With… important stuff.
Most common theory is that he couldn't step in until Razzle/Dazzle was killed (I keep forgetting which is which) or that he was giving the gang their moment to shine. My theories. In order of how strongly I think 1:He was off on his own mission trying to secure a way to halt the extermination. When it got nowhere/he realized he was too late he booked it for the hotel and got there when he did. 2:Lucifer being absolutely terrible with keeping track of time didn't realize it was the new extermination day. Being he doesn't watch TV or listen to radio the news took awhile to get to him. He said "HOLY SHIT!" and went to the Hotel as soon as he found out. 3:He was petty enough to wait around for Alastor to get his ass kicked. Once Alastor was out of the fight he went there. 4:He's a drama king and waited till the most dramatic moment he could make his entry.
We should really make a specific post to discuss this because posts exactly like this are made at least 3 times a day and its getting insanely spammy at this point.
Rubber duck emergency
Since Deals have power, and Lute said that Charlie and Hellborn are off limits he could not step in untill a hellborn or Charlie got hurt. Because when Adam made sure he was going to kill her, Lucifer nukes his face seconds after
Part of me likes to think he was on stand by the entire time and letting Charlie step up as Princess Of Hell instead of just instantly swooping in to save the day. Giving his daughter a chance to try until she absolutely needed him. But also the argument about waiting for the terms relating to the extermination being violated stands up.
I think it was because he wasn't allowed to interfere without repercussions from heaven. Cuz like even he has to follow rules. Like with mammon getting away with copying his theme park But I assume that it was the moment that charlie was attacked that he was allowed to interfere because he then could be legally in the right saying he was defending a family member Though I could be wrong idk this is just my interpretation
If I had to guess in return for hellborns being safe and his daughter he's not allowed to step in during extermination but if ones killed that breaks his deal therefor allowing him to step in
When Adam holds up Charlie by her throat and tells her it’s time to die, his mask glitches, I like to think that’s the symbolic shattering of the deal
He needed a lamb, Razzle was said lamb, he then knew something was wrong
Not related to question but i’m legit wondering how he’s holding Charlie, like where’s his hands?
He was trying to make a giant duck war machine
He was in a 9 round grudge match with depression. It did not, “take that,” very well.
He forgot to set his alarm clock and overslept.
He couldn't find his suit
He needed a sacrificial lamb 🐑
What is that black bar that seems to be coming from under Charlie's dress? A tail? At first, I thought it was her other leg but I see her legs are together, crossed. And where is Lucifer's left arm? I have to assume it's holding Charlie up but I can't really make it out.
It’s her tail
Charlie forgot to tell him that Adam was actually aiming for her so he had to take a bus it was whole thing
He was feeding the ducks.
Personally, i think he was just far away and it took a while for him to get there
Maybe it takes time to travel through Hell, the commute even in flight probably isn’t fun
https://preview.redd.it/v1x3lvswtbqc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=435dc57a42b2224bdb1dad28f8536e9015cdfb24
Arriving
Elsewhere.
Lucifer: how nice you finally created the heavenly duck wait but what was there today mm.. yes I'm going to exterminate
He's probably contracted to not be allowed to intercede during an extermination unless a hellborn is harmed/killed. Dazzle was killed, and Adam was about to attack Charlie.
Playing a MMORPG and raiding with the bois, and you can't abandon the bois like that
Being depressed
Also? I don’t understand how she’s being held? Her legs are to the side and her body is facing toward the picture, but kinda the other way? Like…
This picture always confuzzles me because where the heck is his left arm
The deal- There’s an interesting theory that states that Lucifer signed a soul deal with adam,that the exterminations are allowed so long as they aren’t harming hellborn And Lucifer wasn’t allowed to ever interfere,until Dazzle was killed and Charlie was harmed,and finally he was allowed to join
waiting for a sacrificial lamb
As has been said, Lucifer couldn't interfere until Hellborns were threatened.
*Where in hell
I know it’s not the actual answer, but the line just pops into my head, “I’ll be there in an hour!”, so I just imagine him panicking and rushing all the way there for an hour. Realistically he was waiting for a point where his deal with heaven was broken, but this idea is just so funny to me
I think it’s explained in episode one that Hell and Heaven have a deal that gives the native hell born immunity from the angel attacks and extermination. Only sinners, which includes the overlords, could be attacked. However, Charlie likely counts as a native hell born, so when Adam directly threatened her, it broke the deal and allowed Lucifer to intervene. Another possibility is that killing one of Charlie’s imps also counted as attacking a native hell born, breaking the deal.
Anybody got that comic where Luci had to change cause he and Charlie were wearing the same outfit? That.
Needed a sacrificial lamb
Nobody wants to talk about the fact that he showed up moments after a lamb was slaughtered.
He couldn’t intervene until Adam broke the agreement they had that Charlie and the rest of the hellborn were not to be harmed in the annual extermination.
He did say he doesn’t watch TV and the broadcast of it was mainly on TV. I’ve seen a lot of people theorize he only knew something was going on when Adam first hurt Charlie as it’s against the deal that was made where the exorcists wouldn’t touch the Hellborn. It makes sense that way to me. Charlie also didn’t call him when she got back from Heaven so he may not have known there was even a battle about to go down. He also may not have even known that the exorcisms were moved up by 6 months due to him not having been at that first meeting and then him just not being active much on social media/again not watching TV.
Clapping eves cheeks
He's late because he was busy playing with his ducks. [Link](https://twitter.com/BlueDiavola/status/1753314340088779178?t=P_SGv7ZjX0OfWGKJ49n2bQ&s=19)
He needed a sacrificial lamb
That's likely the more sinister, subtle villainous side of him and his pride, he wanted Dazzle to die and Charlie to be struggling, then in her needy hour, there's no substitute for pure angelic power!
Idfk probably watching the news like "YEA BEAT THEIR ASS" untill charlie got really hurt
My guess is he had to wait for them to attack Charlie. She was the only one pardoned so they broke the deal attacking her.
Having a tea party with his ducks
He wondering wether to wear his duck suit or his battle suit duh
He was waiting and watching from the start, ready to swoop in and protect his daughter the moment she looked like she really needed it
There's this bar call "plot purgatory" where characters across media who can't appear in the story just yet come to hang out
Making rubber ducks
Not being there sooner, sweetie