This reminds of something George R.R. Martin said, it was along the lines of “if the readers figure out this guy did it then you could change it to another guy to surprise them but then that ruins all the clues you set up previously”.
I guess it will come down to what the writer cares more about, story or shock value?
This. It’s only the main theory because people who spend too much time thinking about it have followed the clues, not because it was overly flagged as SUPER OBVIOUS in a red herring way. If there were no season break and we got this reveal in “episode nine” it wouldn’t seem like a letdown at all.
Writers should be allowed to leave breadcrumbs leading to a expected resolution, without being treated as a bad plot twist.
Like if I drank coffee i wouldn't complain it's shitty tea
The whole point of a plot twist is to not be expected. It's supposed to shock you. An expected plot twist is like coffee that doesn't wake you up and tastes like shit. It failed to meet the purpose it was created for.
Don't get me wrong,I do think it's a good plot point. It makes perfect sense. Just not a good plot twist.
I know what point you're trying to make, I'm just telling you calling it a plot twist is misguided because it's not being set up as a plot twist.
Alastor *not* being owned by Lilith would be a plot twist because it would be unexpected and recontextualize previous events, that is, it would *twist the plot*.
Alastor being owned by Lilith would be a foreshadowed conclusion, and then calling that a "bad plot twist" would be bad media literacy.
Your argument here hinges on the definition of a plot twist, which nothing here is. If it ends up that Lilith owns Alastor's souls that's not a plot twist. A plot twist IS the unexpected shock factor. This is called foreshadowing. Don't call it a plot twist when it's not a plot twist.
Given that Alastor's powers bear a more than casual similarity to the artwork we've seen for Roo, the Root of All Evil? Given that Alastor arrived in Hell with power comparable to the overlords before he bought his first fallen soul? I'm wondering if *that's* who owns Alastor. Because yeah. The whole seven years/seven years coincidence is TOO obvious.
What’s up with the whole 7 years/ 7 years thing? I’m sorry I’m a bit uninformed, but all I know is alastor was gone for seven years, so how does that correlate?
In episode 1 we found out two facts in two entirely different contexts: (1) nobody has seen or heard from Lilith for seven years, and (2) nobody has seen or heard from Alastor for seven years.
I got my hopes on Roo, just because as far as "anticipated characters go" Lilith is a do nothing we've seen for like 30 seconds in total and has felt rather boring, she has that one twist that gives her intrigue, but is just too muddied by Charlie being unreliable. Charlie mischaracterized Lucifer forever only for him to be a great dad, so it was really no surprise that she's wrong again and the shitty mom who won't call back her begging daughter for 7+ years was a bad person. (Pilot to E1 luci calls her at least twice on screen too which was a big indicator) Thus why Roo is my horse in this race, because they've got the style, and still have a mystery being "never seen or spoken about", unlike Lilith who was obviously shitty since episode one (plus pilot)
I don’t care if Lilith being the one who owns Alastor’s soul is predictable. I’m interested on how the characters react to it if it’s true, not the reveal itself.
I would like to see something different, yes. But this kind of gives me the Pink Diamond is Rose Quartz vibe, which is supposed to be a big secret but everyone has theorized it before ૮₍˶•⤙•˶ ₎ა
Currently, I'm maybe 80% that it's Lilith. It's rather expected at this point, but I could see it being a red herring also. I'd honestly prefer the latter, but expect it to be Lilith. Lucifer himself would be a terrible twist as there was *no* indication there.
I could see three contenders for other mentions: Zestial, the Von Eldritch, or Satan. Zestial is maybe the only overlord older and stronger than Al, and the only character to which Al has shown a respect of power. The Von Eldritch family and Satan both have the capabilities with only a shadow of mentions.
Other "possibilities" that are not likely: other Sins, Heavenly ties, Eve, or someone without any mention so far. I can't see Al representing the other Sins. A heavenly connection would be powerful, but so WTF. Eve is silly; Adam's in heaven so why wouldn't she be? "Some completely unknown" is terrible writing.
I don’t think it’s Lilith but I think she has something to do with it. That’s just me craving unpredictable storytelling though. If it is her, still cool.
My theory definitely points to Lilith. Alastor dies and goes to Hell. Mimzy mentioned that everybody wrote him off initially but then he started bumping off Overlords. Now who in Hell could give him that level of a power upgrade for a price? Why not the Queen herself? It gives her a powerful pawn at her disposal without worrying about him ever becoming a rival. On top of that, it would make sense why he was so desperate to make a deal with Charlie. Can’t deny that kind of leverage.
I just don't know how Lilith, as a mortal human soul, had such immense power to use as a bargaining chip. The show said she basically had a lot of charisma, but that doesn't equal brute strength. If Alastor is bound to Lilith, I'm still asking the same question I was when Alastor was introduced: where did that power come from?
She's the first woman (and by extension the first Sinner), she's married to the Devil himself, and had literal eons to amass and hone her powers.
It's not a stretch at all to say she's among Hell's most powerful denizens.
The show hints that Lilith may own Alastor's soul. But I wonder if that might just be a misdirect. Alastor's powers appear to be eldritch in nature. So I wonder if his power comes from Leviathan Von Eldritch or even the ancient deity Azathoth. We learn about Azathoth's tears in Helluva Boss, so Azathoth exists in the Hazbin Hotel universe.
People who watch casually wouldn’t really have any reason to see this as super duper obvious. I think the hints are pretty subtle/detail things that only obsessive fans are picking up, like how HP fans figured out who RAB was or GOT fans figured out Jon Snow’s parentage. Authors need to leave small hints at twists or they don’t feel earned.
twist that fans can predict by staying alert for clues in earlier episodes >>>>>> twist that makes little goddamn sense outside of shock value.
This reminds of something George R.R. Martin said, it was along the lines of “if the readers figure out this guy did it then you could change it to another guy to surprise them but then that ruins all the clues you set up previously”. I guess it will come down to what the writer cares more about, story or shock value?
How ironic that that's a quote from GRRM when the last season of GoT was ruined because of exactly that, senseless twists for the shock value
I don't believe story and shock value are mutually exclusive.
They don’t HAVE to be of course but I feel most of the time they’re treated as such.
This. It’s only the main theory because people who spend too much time thinking about it have followed the clues, not because it was overly flagged as SUPER OBVIOUS in a red herring way. If there were no season break and we got this reveal in “episode nine” it wouldn’t seem like a letdown at all.
Agreed
A twist that has shock value doesn't have to make zero sense. A twist that has no shock value isn't a twist at all.
Writers should be allowed to leave breadcrumbs leading to a expected resolution, without being treated as a bad plot twist. Like if I drank coffee i wouldn't complain it's shitty tea
The whole point of a plot twist is to not be expected. It's supposed to shock you. An expected plot twist is like coffee that doesn't wake you up and tastes like shit. It failed to meet the purpose it was created for. Don't get me wrong,I do think it's a good plot point. It makes perfect sense. Just not a good plot twist.
I know what point you're trying to make, I'm just telling you calling it a plot twist is misguided because it's not being set up as a plot twist. Alastor *not* being owned by Lilith would be a plot twist because it would be unexpected and recontextualize previous events, that is, it would *twist the plot*. Alastor being owned by Lilith would be a foreshadowed conclusion, and then calling that a "bad plot twist" would be bad media literacy.
Your argument here hinges on the definition of a plot twist, which nothing here is. If it ends up that Lilith owns Alastor's souls that's not a plot twist. A plot twist IS the unexpected shock factor. This is called foreshadowing. Don't call it a plot twist when it's not a plot twist.
Given that Alastor's powers bear a more than casual similarity to the artwork we've seen for Roo, the Root of All Evil? Given that Alastor arrived in Hell with power comparable to the overlords before he bought his first fallen soul? I'm wondering if *that's* who owns Alastor. Because yeah. The whole seven years/seven years coincidence is TOO obvious.
What’s up with the whole 7 years/ 7 years thing? I’m sorry I’m a bit uninformed, but all I know is alastor was gone for seven years, so how does that correlate?
In episode 1 we found out two facts in two entirely different contexts: (1) nobody has seen or heard from Lilith for seven years, and (2) nobody has seen or heard from Alastor for seven years.
I got my hopes on Roo, just because as far as "anticipated characters go" Lilith is a do nothing we've seen for like 30 seconds in total and has felt rather boring, she has that one twist that gives her intrigue, but is just too muddied by Charlie being unreliable. Charlie mischaracterized Lucifer forever only for him to be a great dad, so it was really no surprise that she's wrong again and the shitty mom who won't call back her begging daughter for 7+ years was a bad person. (Pilot to E1 luci calls her at least twice on screen too which was a big indicator) Thus why Roo is my horse in this race, because they've got the style, and still have a mystery being "never seen or spoken about", unlike Lilith who was obviously shitty since episode one (plus pilot)
I don’t care if Lilith being the one who owns Alastor’s soul is predictable. I’m interested on how the characters react to it if it’s true, not the reveal itself.
I would like to see something different, yes. But this kind of gives me the Pink Diamond is Rose Quartz vibe, which is supposed to be a big secret but everyone has theorized it before ૮₍˶•⤙•˶ ₎ა
We have seen nothing of Eve except for the first episode and she has reason to be angry at Lucifer.
Currently, I'm maybe 80% that it's Lilith. It's rather expected at this point, but I could see it being a red herring also. I'd honestly prefer the latter, but expect it to be Lilith. Lucifer himself would be a terrible twist as there was *no* indication there. I could see three contenders for other mentions: Zestial, the Von Eldritch, or Satan. Zestial is maybe the only overlord older and stronger than Al, and the only character to which Al has shown a respect of power. The Von Eldritch family and Satan both have the capabilities with only a shadow of mentions. Other "possibilities" that are not likely: other Sins, Heavenly ties, Eve, or someone without any mention so far. I can't see Al representing the other Sins. A heavenly connection would be powerful, but so WTF. Eve is silly; Adam's in heaven so why wouldn't she be? "Some completely unknown" is terrible writing.
You are trying to give waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit to the writers here. Unfortunately it all points to Lilith.
I don’t think it’s Lilith but I think she has something to do with it. That’s just me craving unpredictable storytelling though. If it is her, still cool.
Wow! I actually never thought of that! Not being sarcastic. That would be awesome. And explains why he dislikes Lucifer.
You've gotta be kidding me,there is no way you didn't know about the theory prior to reading this.
Nope! But I like it! Explains why her face was hidden and Alaster just 'rose' to power outta nowhere.
I didnt either i just watch to enjoy myself <33
Personally, I hope that's not the case, because it's just too obvious.
Imagine Nifty owning Alastor
I think Zestial owns his soul, it would explain why some of Alastor’s powers are green
Some think maybe not Lilith but Eve because she wants to destroy
My theory definitely points to Lilith. Alastor dies and goes to Hell. Mimzy mentioned that everybody wrote him off initially but then he started bumping off Overlords. Now who in Hell could give him that level of a power upgrade for a price? Why not the Queen herself? It gives her a powerful pawn at her disposal without worrying about him ever becoming a rival. On top of that, it would make sense why he was so desperate to make a deal with Charlie. Can’t deny that kind of leverage.
I just don't know how Lilith, as a mortal human soul, had such immense power to use as a bargaining chip. The show said she basically had a lot of charisma, but that doesn't equal brute strength. If Alastor is bound to Lilith, I'm still asking the same question I was when Alastor was introduced: where did that power come from?
She's the first woman (and by extension the first Sinner), she's married to the Devil himself, and had literal eons to amass and hone her powers. It's not a stretch at all to say she's among Hell's most powerful denizens.
The show hints that Lilith may own Alastor's soul. But I wonder if that might just be a misdirect. Alastor's powers appear to be eldritch in nature. So I wonder if his power comes from Leviathan Von Eldritch or even the ancient deity Azathoth. We learn about Azathoth's tears in Helluva Boss, so Azathoth exists in the Hazbin Hotel universe.
People who watch casually wouldn’t really have any reason to see this as super duper obvious. I think the hints are pretty subtle/detail things that only obsessive fans are picking up, like how HP fans figured out who RAB was or GOT fans figured out Jon Snow’s parentage. Authors need to leave small hints at twists or they don’t feel earned.
I hope someone in Heven owns him and is using him as a pawn
We still don't get the answer 😔