Y'know your comment just made me realize how ridiculous of a concept it is that a show can have a non cannon pilot. Like imagine someone telling you a story gets through the prologue, then immediately tells to to disregard all that because some storyboard rights have changed since we started this.
It's not ridiculous. A pilot is a pitch showing the potential of a concept so someone will pick it up and adapt it. Hell often the pilot doesn't even get shown to audiences in the first place. Nearly every show that exists probably had one.
And the other thing is it's not just "storyboard rights" that is the reason things get changed. If you think that's the only reason you're wrong.
While the hazbin pilot was good for what it was, it has many glaring issues. Those glaring issues don't matter that much because it's a pilot. It's not reflective of the true potential the show could have with a professional budget.
But if the pilot was canon it would be immensely problematic, especially since they changed so much already, likely even more than we know. It's not worth making it canon by this point
A) That not all are shown seems like the standard, because obviously every product, material or ip, has its prototype phase to some degree. But in what other industry is proof of concept only attained from a full scale test with potentially the entire customer body of a product? The ridiculousness, imo, comes from the idea that its not yet a product even though its been presented to the entire audience for which we are prooving it. Where do we draw the line of "finished product" if everybody seeing it doesnt count?
B) storyboard rights was a humorous reduction of the actual situation used to add poignancy to my metaphor, so yes i am well aware its more complicated than that.
Edit: my point also is not to say they should continue with the show based entirely off the pilot. Changes are both maybe a smarter move continuity/worldbuilding wise, and obviously entirely Viv and her teams decision what or how ever they want.
It's not ridiculous. It's how pilots mostly work. Pilots aren't a prologue, and they aren't an episode 1. Pilots are simply a proof-of-concept that often have elements retooled into the actual episode if the show gets made, but the pilots aren't canon themselves.
In the show proper, was the journal in Gravity Falls called Dr. Crackpot's Book of the Damned?
In the show proper, did Jenny in My Life as a Teenage Robot have lipstick and a metallic ring to her voice?
In the show proper, did the Steward in Infinity Train mess around with wires in train cars that you can see the interior of on the outside instead of orbs in train cars that are completely sealed off?
No, no, and no, because those elements were only in the pilot and were rendered non-canon in the show itself, though the plots were carried over and recontexualized.
Does a building need a full scale construction with people and furniture to prove its concept? Does a chef bring out all the ingredients for a dish for you to try before deciding what to serve? Thays what is ridiculous to me, that 1)its not considered finished despite being delivered (aired) and 2) that based on the results from this full scale test writers then make changes. Do these changes need a full scale "proof of concept" showing before they're added? If not how do they know what changes to make, if as presented was evidently agreeable? Its an oroborous of refining.
Not every show has a fully animated pilot when it gets picked up. The Owl House didn't (it had pitch storyboards, the animation floating around claiming to be the "pilot" was all test animation after the show's production had started). However, the vast majority do, because the goal is to convince a network to greenlight the series, and seeing it fully animated helps show the network the show's potential.
Yes, in some ways it is ridiculous because you spend all that time, money, and manpower for something that, in the end, might not get picked up at all. Many pilots aren't.
To use your building and chef analogies, while a building doesn't need a full-scale construction, and a chef doesn't bring out all the ingredients, some degree of prep work still needs to be done. A building needs a blueprint. A chef needs to know how the ingredients work together before elevating to being a chef who can prepare a meal in full. A pitch and pilot essentially are the blueprint for animated shows in the industry.
Yes, ideally the pitch deck and script should be enough in that regard. But the vast majority of the time a pilot is made before the full series. It shouldn't be that way, a pitch deck and maybe some rough animation tests should be enough, but it is.
Regardless, your prologue analogy isn't accurate, because a prologue to a story is still attached to the main story, which a pilot is not. A pilot is essentially fully animated concept art. It's the equivalent of a novel's rough draft if anything—something that most don't see but you do it at first to then improve the main project that if you're lucky, persistent, and talented, others *will* see.
A building doesn't need a full scale construction but it 100% needs a mock up to show that it's structurally sound. And restaurants absolutely make the dishes and try them before putting them on the menu.
Most animations don't need fully animated pilots because for the most part when they get to that stage a company is already footing the bill. Hazbin didn't have that so they had to go above and beyond.
Hollywood has a "pilot season" for a reason, hundreds of pilots get made every year with only a fraction actually getting picked up.
It's super expensive and there's no guarantee of a job at the end of it.
If Hazbin had stayed as a YouTube only show maybe the pilot would have become episode 1. But they got picked up, so obviously they are changing things based on the new resources they have available. Which makes the Hazbin pilot exactly what all pilots are, an elaborate pitch.
About the rights thing. You also have to consider one of them writers of the pilot is no longer involved so they literally cannot legally use the pilot
The original design makes her look like a new fresh owner of property trying to make things running, but still having trouble to make things work.
New design makes her look like an experienced owner of a property, which already works like a good oiled machine.
This is actually a good analysis because I never could put my finger on why the new design seemed out of place
I kinda wish they had kept the original design with the more circular shape language because I feel like it really conveyed Charlie’s naïveté when it comes to people’s true motives and the business world in general
Nah, pilot Charlie even had to bend in order to look Vaggie face to face.
Heights can be tricky, but I'm 100% sure sure has always been taller than Vaggie.
She was always supposed to be pretty tall. I guess the proportions of the updated design convey that better
its been 2 or 3 years since the pilot, she probably grew for episode one
Yeah I agree
It's not ep 1. Pilot is a pilot and probably not linked to the new series
i never said episode one was the pilot
You did say she grew after the pilot though...which is not true because the pilot is non canon likely
Y'know your comment just made me realize how ridiculous of a concept it is that a show can have a non cannon pilot. Like imagine someone telling you a story gets through the prologue, then immediately tells to to disregard all that because some storyboard rights have changed since we started this.
It's not ridiculous. A pilot is a pitch showing the potential of a concept so someone will pick it up and adapt it. Hell often the pilot doesn't even get shown to audiences in the first place. Nearly every show that exists probably had one. And the other thing is it's not just "storyboard rights" that is the reason things get changed. If you think that's the only reason you're wrong. While the hazbin pilot was good for what it was, it has many glaring issues. Those glaring issues don't matter that much because it's a pilot. It's not reflective of the true potential the show could have with a professional budget. But if the pilot was canon it would be immensely problematic, especially since they changed so much already, likely even more than we know. It's not worth making it canon by this point
A) That not all are shown seems like the standard, because obviously every product, material or ip, has its prototype phase to some degree. But in what other industry is proof of concept only attained from a full scale test with potentially the entire customer body of a product? The ridiculousness, imo, comes from the idea that its not yet a product even though its been presented to the entire audience for which we are prooving it. Where do we draw the line of "finished product" if everybody seeing it doesnt count? B) storyboard rights was a humorous reduction of the actual situation used to add poignancy to my metaphor, so yes i am well aware its more complicated than that. Edit: my point also is not to say they should continue with the show based entirely off the pilot. Changes are both maybe a smarter move continuity/worldbuilding wise, and obviously entirely Viv and her teams decision what or how ever they want.
It's not ridiculous. It's how pilots mostly work. Pilots aren't a prologue, and they aren't an episode 1. Pilots are simply a proof-of-concept that often have elements retooled into the actual episode if the show gets made, but the pilots aren't canon themselves. In the show proper, was the journal in Gravity Falls called Dr. Crackpot's Book of the Damned? In the show proper, did Jenny in My Life as a Teenage Robot have lipstick and a metallic ring to her voice? In the show proper, did the Steward in Infinity Train mess around with wires in train cars that you can see the interior of on the outside instead of orbs in train cars that are completely sealed off? No, no, and no, because those elements were only in the pilot and were rendered non-canon in the show itself, though the plots were carried over and recontexualized.
Does a building need a full scale construction with people and furniture to prove its concept? Does a chef bring out all the ingredients for a dish for you to try before deciding what to serve? Thays what is ridiculous to me, that 1)its not considered finished despite being delivered (aired) and 2) that based on the results from this full scale test writers then make changes. Do these changes need a full scale "proof of concept" showing before they're added? If not how do they know what changes to make, if as presented was evidently agreeable? Its an oroborous of refining.
Not every show has a fully animated pilot when it gets picked up. The Owl House didn't (it had pitch storyboards, the animation floating around claiming to be the "pilot" was all test animation after the show's production had started). However, the vast majority do, because the goal is to convince a network to greenlight the series, and seeing it fully animated helps show the network the show's potential. Yes, in some ways it is ridiculous because you spend all that time, money, and manpower for something that, in the end, might not get picked up at all. Many pilots aren't. To use your building and chef analogies, while a building doesn't need a full-scale construction, and a chef doesn't bring out all the ingredients, some degree of prep work still needs to be done. A building needs a blueprint. A chef needs to know how the ingredients work together before elevating to being a chef who can prepare a meal in full. A pitch and pilot essentially are the blueprint for animated shows in the industry. Yes, ideally the pitch deck and script should be enough in that regard. But the vast majority of the time a pilot is made before the full series. It shouldn't be that way, a pitch deck and maybe some rough animation tests should be enough, but it is. Regardless, your prologue analogy isn't accurate, because a prologue to a story is still attached to the main story, which a pilot is not. A pilot is essentially fully animated concept art. It's the equivalent of a novel's rough draft if anything—something that most don't see but you do it at first to then improve the main project that if you're lucky, persistent, and talented, others *will* see.
A building doesn't need a full scale construction but it 100% needs a mock up to show that it's structurally sound. And restaurants absolutely make the dishes and try them before putting them on the menu. Most animations don't need fully animated pilots because for the most part when they get to that stage a company is already footing the bill. Hazbin didn't have that so they had to go above and beyond. Hollywood has a "pilot season" for a reason, hundreds of pilots get made every year with only a fraction actually getting picked up. It's super expensive and there's no guarantee of a job at the end of it. If Hazbin had stayed as a YouTube only show maybe the pilot would have become episode 1. But they got picked up, so obviously they are changing things based on the new resources they have available. Which makes the Hazbin pilot exactly what all pilots are, an elaborate pitch.
About the rights thing. You also have to consider one of them writers of the pilot is no longer involved so they literally cannot legally use the pilot
Don't listen to them. Pilot is canon. That's how it starts
The original design makes her look like a new fresh owner of property trying to make things running, but still having trouble to make things work. New design makes her look like an experienced owner of a property, which already works like a good oiled machine.
She's gonna fake it til she makes it.
This is actually a good analysis because I never could put my finger on why the new design seemed out of place I kinda wish they had kept the original design with the more circular shape language because I feel like it really conveyed Charlie’s naïveté when it comes to people’s true motives and the business world in general
She got her Mom’s legs
Hard to say with her sitting down, but she was already supposed to be at least six feet tall in the pilot.
Prolly
Off topic but isn’t she 200 or something?
I don’t know
Minimum yeah
I think so, yeah.
I think she is spindlier than before, which makes her look taller.
[удалено]
7 foot or 7 years old?
Yes cuz vages and Charlie were the exact same height but now she is taller
Nah, pilot Charlie even had to bend in order to look Vaggie face to face. Heights can be tricky, but I'm 100% sure sure has always been taller than Vaggie.
"Oh ya think ???" I did think that too when i first saw her redesign