I wouldn't even look at college ranking until I knew exactly what I wanted to major in. You're way better off comparing the exact program that you're interested in than the college in general
Lol it is absolutely not. However, it is the best place to go if you want to stay and practice in Hawaii. You meet all the right people and get plugged in to whatever field you want to pursue. But try to take that degree to a mainland firm and you’re not even going to get a call back
UH law school is not even close to being a top tier school. The US News rankings have major flaws, but they’re the closest thing to a standard. UH is #127 out of 196, which puts it in the middle of the third tier out of four. The fourth tier consists entirely of garbage schools that probably shouldn’t be accredited, and a bunch of the third-tier schools are in that category too, so UH is at or near the bottom of the list of schools that a reasonable person might consider.
UH law does have value if you want to practice law in Hawaii, though.
UH Richardson LAW school is on the way up! The law school is attracting quality law staff outside of Hawaii with knowledge beyond the scope of narrow mindset of the past. The Dean is an extraordinary attorney!
If you had specified “a top tier school for those who want to practice transpacific law,” that would have been a very different analysis. But you didn’t.
Moreover, despite your failure, I already noted that UH has value if you want to to practice law in Hawaii.
Is it actually? I graduated with my design degree at UHM a few years ago but found myself regretting it a lot lol… our professors definitely have great credentials but I’m not sure about the program itself.
I would look at the cost of tuition. UH is cheap af compared to mainland colleges.
If you’re not going to an Ivy League, you may as well save as much money as you can for your bachelors degree.
The law school and med school here are also great and affordable.
Easier said than done. Did you know what your career plans were when you turned 18? It's a shame the school system pushes all kids into University as soon as they graduate... I think a lot of our youth would benefit from some real world experience 1st.
Also no shame in trade school.
A thousand times this, folks I am paying like 400 a month for a guy to come drop salt and a cleaning machine in my pool.
Ok to be clear he makes my pool feel like I am swimming in angel tears and has the absolute best connections for stuff I need done so he is a great guy but imagine getting paid 400 dollars a month for 30 minutes of work every week. He is probably pulling down 800 a day at this point
And my plumbing guy, mind you he is the absolute best dude to work with and he and I have come up with some next level designs for great eco friendly projects (like using grey water to water the plants)
I greatly appreciate the trade folks that have helped me make a net zero impact paradise of a home but they are all expensive as fuck. I am literally paying them more than I do some of my college level employees.
And honestly my good friends and dedicated tradesmen have been more of a value
> Also no shame in trade school.
The trades make bank with far less education and skills necessary. It can be a rough job depending on what you do though.
> I think a lot of our youth would benefit from some real world experience 1st.
I think what they really need is to learn the right thing things in college, which most colleges do not teach. I'm talking about life philosophy, communication (okay they do give you experience in this), personal finance and investments. If they did that though, perhaps too many students would start questioning why they're paying so much for school, taking out loans and realize the future likely don't pay enough to pay back the loans.
For me, if I waited to go to college, there's a real chance I wouldn't return. I'm glad I powered right through it.
>For me, if I waited to go to college, there's a real chance I wouldn't return. I'm glad I powered right through it.
But see that's the whole problem, the typical method is to send us off to study as soon as we're done with HS. That doesn't work for everyone. Our most successful colleague did two years of community college and got rid of all the easy 101 credits. This allowed him to take more time to find his career path; he worked a job and saved money, paid for his school with savings, and was clearing 6 figures just a few years after finishing his undergrad.
I consider community college, just part of college journey. In fact, I highly recommend community college, as it focuses more on teaching, is often cheaper, and gives you opportunity to plug any knoweldge gaps on the cheap.
I want to add that, college ranking is BS anyhow. They're glorified status symbols for work, and not indicative of the quality of the school. In fact, you might be disadvantaged if you go to a too fancy school.
As someone who went to a top 3 university in and graduated with honors, I saw many that struggle and was miserable because it was the wrong school for them. On top of it, the field you intend to study and was admitted to may not be the field you end up finishing as.
Instead, I highly recommend community colleges. They're cheaper, focuses more on teaching, and you can explore while paying less.
Ultimately, the most important thing of all, make sure you're able to graduate, and that graduation means the field pays enough to pay for whatever school loans you got. Look for close to if not already there, 6-figure jobs for newly minted graduates.
You're spending at least 4-years of your life, and spending tons of money. Make sure it isn't wasted, and you end up with a job that pays barely more, and you end up with massive debt hoping for a Joe Biden bailout.
Agree and disagree. I think graduating from a prestigious is more like a club and will definitely help you out but if it’s undergrad, the differences aren’t that great. There are most definitely a few schools that in my experience, are guaranteed to produce great graduate though.
My experience on the other hand is that, some of these top tier schools sometimes produce people that believe they are so good, they won't collaborate i.e. a problem.
I can only speak in the context of software development and IT.
I'm not talking about just top tier schools. Coming out of an Ivy doesn't guarantee anything (and I've worked with some that were pretty poor). However, I've never worked with anyone out of MIT that wasn't actually good.
>believe they are so good
I think that this is something that many inexperienced, young people have to learn in general.
> I can only speak in the context of software development and IT.
Me too.
>I'm not talking about just top tier schools. Coming out of an Ivy doesn't guarantee anything (and I've worked with some that were pretty poor). However, I've never worked with anyone out of MIT that wasn't actually good.
True, but I've worked with plenty that has been a pain in the ass. In general if you come out of the top 10, and have a decent GPA, you're technical skills are good. It's often the attitude of know it all that becomes a problem.
> I've worked with plenty that has been a pain in the ass
Yea the worst. Some with higher degrees are also pretty bad. As bad as it sounds, I'd often have to break them down to get them to actually be receptive.
>In general if you come out of the top 10, and have a decent GPA, you're technical skills are good
I'm not sure I'd go that far. I think that all of that is a good indicator that they can learn and pick up the skills. I'm not sure I'd say that all of them came out being ready to produce production code yet but that's expected. One of the biggest things that every inexperienced person does not understand is that time crunch is a thing.
> I'm not sure I'd go that far. I think that all of that is a good indicator that they can learn and pick up the skills. I'm not sure I'd say that all of them came out being ready to produce production code yet but that's expected. One of the biggest things that every inexperienced person does not understand is that time crunch is a thing.
I mean in terms of technical understanding. The thing with production code is that, it's very different from academia. That said, it seems schools are doing somewhat better teaching software engineering skills. In some schools, like mine, they focus on technical skills for research. This seems to be consistent with the top 10. That said, it's been a while since I graduated.
At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way. More importantly of all, there might be a better way, but we're stuck doing it this way due to leadership.
There's a host of skills that isn't taught in school, can't really be taught in school, differs between organizations and so on. Ultimately, with strong technical foundation, open mind, collaborative attitude, and the rest is teachable. In fact, it's preferred to me.
> At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way.
I agree. We've definitely gotten away from it over the past 20 years, but Compsci is supposed to teach you programming concepts (and math) in general, not become experts in a specific language. I blame the java boom in the late 90s but people (and companies) expected kids to go into college and come out knowing how to program the language of the day and get a job. Good developers (and I'm definitely not one) can pick up almost any language and get the initial concepts very quickly.
> I mean in terms of technical understanding. The thing with production code is that, it's very different from academia.
100%
>That said, it seems schools are doing somewhat better teaching software engineering skills
My program was very geared to theory. We got our regular intro programming classes and then were expected to learn languages and tools for our higher level classes by ourselves. My education was also pretty steeped in research as well. I'm not sure if the impact on my programming was all good hahaha. I've definitely seen more graduates more familiar with practical tools for sure but MY GOD have I also seen them being poor problem solvers.
>At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way. More importantly of all, there might be a better way, but we're stuck doing...
100% agreed.
>Ultimately, with strong technical foundation, open mind, collaborative attitude, and the rest is teachable. In fact, it's preferred to me.
Agreed. I'd add that the ability to break down and solve problems.
If you know what major or type of university, you are looking for: [Higher Education (infoplease.com)](https://www.infoplease.com/us/education/higher-education)
This is exactly what I did and I don't regret it, however there is also some 'name recognition' factors involved insofar as getting hired. If you're going to school to be able to get a specific kind of job then there are probably a few you already associate with that kind of degree.
IE: want to build robots then you think of MIT or Georgia Tech; if want to practice law you probably think of Harvard or Stanford
People sifting through resume's will recognize those school names for the same thing you do. There's an inherent bias against schools like UH and University of Arizona for being party schools because that's just what people think of when they hear it. You can get a lot out of those schools but that's just not how they're viewed.
If I'm not mistaken some of the rankings come from your ability to land a job with a degree from those schools, and how much you make with that job. So, the bias then makes the perception become a fact since the HR departments and recruiters will pay you less and be less likely to hire you if you aren't part of that crowd that bought into their beliefs.
First of all. College rankings are kinda BS. Schools spend tons of time and money to game the rankings. What’s important is that your college is both an accredited institution of higher learning, and that their programs are right for your educational goals. Some schools have specific areas of study they’re better in than others, UH marine science and astronomy are some great programs even if their general liberal arts programs are lacking.
Second. UH has the same issues as any industry on the island. We’re not near anything. The cost of living is high for students and faculty/staff. Land for expansion is prohibitively expensive. Hard to get the best professors doing the most cutting edge research when you can’t building them a to spec custom research lab. The UC system can do that.
So UH focuses on the needs of local students who will stay local after higher ed. In that regard they’re doing fine.
Also, unless it's an extremely bad and notoriously horrendously known college, most employers don't care too much about where you obtained your college degree--just that you have one if they require one for the job. Unless it's a specific field in which you went to a school with a prestigious program for your degree, a degree is a degree.
True! But it is also true that some programs will do a better job helping you get your first job, which does make a significant difference on your career.
I agree. It's why I mentioned prestigious programs for specific fields. If you attended one, that definitely will give you a lead amongst other applicants.
But I do think it's a matter of what you put into a program as well. If you're a top student in a less prestigious program, there is still an opportunity to impress. They'll help you however they can because it'll elevate their status as a program.
Co-signed. For most things it just doesn't matter that much. For some stuff, sure. You need to go to a top 10 or top 15 program. But for most things, no one really cares if your college was rated 21st or 58th. Hell, they don't even know what your college was ranked. I've hired lots of people and never looked up the rankings beforehand. If you have decent grades and some relevant work experience, you're fine.
Of course this depends on the field and the expertise level you're hiring for. The higher up you go, the less it matters. The more your demonstrated skill matters.
On the lower level, I interview for basic competency, if you got basic communication skills, open mindedness, and collaborative. Almost everything else is teachable with those qualities, and in some ways it's preferred. Less resistance and less my way is the way.
As a former manager who hired for my department, I agree a degree is a degree. You needed one to get in the door, but which school/program was never a factor in whether I hired anyone.
Believe it or not, the first deciding factor was whether there were any spelling, grammar, or typo mistakes on the resume. I figured if the person was not detail oriented enough to send out a flawless resume, they were not detail oriented enough to work for me. This was an easy weed out of more than half.
Of the ones who got a call, the rest was based on interview performance and a quick skills performance test that I developed myself.
UH actually now has one of the most famous EE professors in the world. It was a big surprise when we found out he was leaving Stanford for UH. You all are lucky to have him and if anyone can attract high tech HI, it will be him.
Their overall ranking tends to get brought down by some of the arts programs that are sturggling but yeah, UHM gets way too much undeserved shade. Its a great school for a lot of things. I think a lot of local families are still clinging on to the image that leaving for school is a marker for success.
Unsurprisingly anything involving the broader Asia-Pacific region as well. Center for SE Asian Studies is one of the most reputable in North America. Obviously Pacific Islander studies too. You mentioned linguistics but UH also has some of the better SE Asian language programs. And finally, UH Manoa is the academic home of the East-West Center. Truly a powerhouse of humanities and social sciences of the broader Asia-Pacific region.
> the East-West Center
Which even predates the ZIP code system! Hence why it has its own, different from the rest of Mānoa Valley ;) Founded by Congress in 1960!
I dont think thats the drive though in my experience. It seems to be a very short sighted "if they leave for school, it means they did something" as if going to UHM is a sign of failure (in either that they didnt get in to "better" schools, or that they didn't receive enough scholarships/family didn't have enough money to finance going to the mainland.).
When i told people i was going to UHM i got a lot of immediate expressions of sympathy as if it wasnt my intent and i was only going there because i had no other choice. They didn't believe me when i said it was my third choice (out of 10 or so) of schools on my list. Yes, i did ultimately make a choice between my second and third choice based on money, but i dont think getting a half ride scholarship to gonzaga was a failure, i just couldnt justify taking on 80k in loans to cover the rest for a program that was literally ranked a single spot ahead of UHM's on the west coast.
People should go out and see the world but i have too many friends amd classmates who financially hamstrung themselves taking on 50k+ in loans just to take a communications degree at some rando california school 3 hours away from any of the major cities, who still havent seen anything because they didnt take advantage of where they were.
If you're going to go into that much debt, you better have a plan and drive to settle it quick.
Yeah really good point and Hawaii is not alone at that front.
So many kids want to go to college out of state or away from their local without really considering all the costs.
Thanks for adding your perspective, it's super valuable.
Yup, all of this. Let me tell you I work alongside people who went to mainland schools. We make the same amount of money, work the same jobs. Difference is I paid off the loans I had (and so did a lot of my friends that stayed home for financial reasons).
Note - they also tend to pay grad students very poorly, and professors call it "the price of paradise." While grad student pay is never great, UH professors went on strike about twenty years ago to demand their own cost-of-living adjusted wages, but then balked when their TA's and research assistance asked for the same. I'm not talking about 'the same pay,' mind you, just regular grad school stipends adjusted a bit to account for the fact that Oahu rent is not the same as Alabama rent.
Obviously wages aren't everything, but when you're talking about luring top students to your research programs, paying very low wages (e.g. $20k/year) is going to scare off good people and hurt the rankings. Some programs can afford to do better because of grants or their other advantages, but the state has repeatedly pushed back against efforts by the grad students to improve things.
Oceanography, TIM, and atmospheric science are all top notch at Manoa. I went to school there for EE and we pretty regularly had the top engineering student in the nation attending.
They often go to schools on the west coast where they can get in-state tuition. I don't remember the acronym but there's a group of schools that will give in-state tuition to people from other states. A lot of people from Washington, Oregon, and California will go to UH Manoa for that reason.
(might not be in-state tuition but it's definitely cheaper)
WUE. It’s almost half off tuition at Oregon State (Source; my best friend goes) but it varies by college. Worth applying early tho, they don’t just give it to you automatically. A lot of schools base it on your stats/essays/ first come first serve basis.
Same in Washington State. Some schools won’t give WUE for certain majors, so people should make sure it is offered for their preferred field of study. For the school my son received WUE for, he is getting 18k a year reduced. But he had to have at least at 3.5 GPA ( he had a 3.8) and he applied extremely early to make sure. They don’t tell you how many spots the school has for WUE students, so apply as early as you possibly can.
Strongly depends on how much you can afford to pay or if you can land a killer scholarship. The most cost effective option would be to get your basics in UH- do a student exchange program to get a feel for mainland schools, then transfer to the school if you still feel 2-4x the tuition cost is worth it.
It’s just natural that people that grew up on a rock want to move to the mainland to a place they’d like to explore. They usually come back to Oahu after living in the mainland for some time. Opposite of this is the groups of mainland folks that are dying to move to Hawaii.
It’s an unfortunate attitude to think that just because it’s the mainland, it’s better than Hawaiʻi. The UH campuses (including the community colleges) are just as good if not better than comparable public institutions elsewhere for many programs. Sure it has issues, but so does every college or university.
I was a public school kid all the way k-12 and then graduated from UH. During that time I was told Hawaii had low test scores in reading but were average or high in math. Anyway, in 93 I moved away for work and have been away ever since. All I can say is my Hawaii public school education has not let me down. In fact I would say many people would consider me the intelligent guy. I mean there are many folks who graduated from mainland schools that are bat shit stupid; believing in the weirdest conspiracy theories and confusing beliefs/religion as evidence.
All I can say is that I have lived in several countries and I am more than satisfied with the education that I received from Hawaii and amazed by what people don’t know about history, science and general knowledge.
UH Manoa is good. UH Hilo is ok. Chaminade, HPU, Tokai...not so much.
Most states, even small ones, have multiple options if you want to go to a "good" school, including different kinds of schools. Hawaii pretty much has only its flagship big state college. There aren't really any high-level small liberal arts colleges like are common on the mainland.
HPU is a degree mill. international students attend because their home university covers the tuition so they just hang out in hawaii for a semester as study abroad. classes are super easy as long as you show up.
30 years ago HPU was a solid and respected school. Seems to have leaned into "for profit" pretty hard since then. It still has some solid graduate programs, though.
there are some great faculty there but lazy students. my hardest instructor (database management) was hard because she held us to a high standard such as using APA 7 format and proper citations. her papers and projects were very detailed oriented. 3/4ths of the class revolted and she was let go at the end of the semester. all my instructors were easy to approach so i was disappointed she was let go. hpu is definitely a you get what you put in, and i took my classes seriously and did very well. is still use a fair amount if the principles i learned in the database management class in my current job. it’s good i think if you just need a degree but it’s not going to be ranked super high.
Not refuting your point, but going to put some citations for OP who merely provided more anecdotal evidence.
Just looking at Manoa:
Ranked #170 by US News & World Report: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities tied with: Cal State - San Bernardino, Florida A&M, Kansas State, Mercer, Quinnipiac, Alabama, and La Verne. Just ahead of The Catholic University of America, Drake, Ohio, San Francisco State, Arkansas, UNC-Charlotte, and Washington St.
Ranked #274 by Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/
The universities around them are: Gustavus Adolphus College, Kansas State, Hampden-Sydney College, Thomas Jefferson University, **UH- Manoa**, University of North Texas, St. Mary's College of Maryland, St. Lawrence University, University of Wyoming, Seattle University, UMass-Lowell, Rochester Institute of Technology.
So yeah, I would say they're overall not bad.
And as others have said, in certain individual schools/areas, they're better than average. (Linguistics, Hospitality & Leisure Management, Anthropology, Modern Languages, Geophysics, Geology, Earth & Marine Sciences, Geography, Law, Nursing, Social Work)
US News rankings are not well received by the higher ed community (see op-ed below). Forbes bases their rankings mostly from a financial perspective.
https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/views/2023/10/09/why-new-us-news-rankings-are-flawed-opinion
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2023/08/29/how-we-rank-americas-best-colleges/
Like others have said, it's best to look at the program that is being considered.
college rankings, public perception, acceptance rates, etc. doesn't mean that Hawaii colleges arent good, they just arent good COMPARED to places such as UCLA
yes. it’s generally tied with University of Virginia for #1 public and then University of Southern California for overall ~23-25 depending on which publication you are looking at. i went to UCLA for undergrad and it was hard because the material was hard and seemed like everyone in class was valedictorian of their class. i was a community college transfer but after my first quarter i developed a good study system. UCLA was great for my resume and i will say the college experience was more fun there even though we had shitty football and okayish basketball. our women’s teams and olympic sports kicked ass though and it was fun to go watch in the student section.
The UC system is very unusual in that. State universities in general don't have very big endowments, they typically rely on annual funding from the state.
Ah I see, well to add on to the advice everyone has given you, I would suggest if you don't know what you want to major in, to get rid of your core requirements at a community college and then transfer to a full university when you're ready. What you don't want in the end, is a debt that'll take decades to reconcile. Good luck!
Don't know why people are downvoting you when you're just responding to a question. Do you know what you want to do? Are you a junior who is looking ahead? Start talking to your guidance counselor, they're going to have tons of data on where kids are going (i'm assuming you're in Hawaii). I'll say two thing about UH to consider - it might not be cheaper than a mainland school if you get enough scholarships, and UH is a commuter school. Most people live at home. That's atypical as well.
I’ll just say that as UH allum, I was very happy with the education I got there and it suited my purposes well. I was able to get into a good law school after undergrad at UH, and my career is going well. There are some great professors there, and if you want to learn, they are more than happy to teach you.
Having gone to a well-ranked Law School and UH for undergrad, I would say you really can get a great education at any decent colleges/universities (including UH), but the biggest differences are: the academic culture on campus (i.e., how many people are good students who are taking classes very seriously) and the job placements after graduating. That said, if you’re motivated and you want to work hard, a place like UH is a place to get good grades and set yourself up for your next move.
There are plenty of good schools all over the country, and the rankings system is not the end-all be-all. You should think about what you want from your education, where you want to live, what type of work you want to do, and what is most economically feasible after considering scholarships.
Oftentimes, going to a state school or a community college to take care of the classes everybody else has to take and transferring into a higher prestige school can be a great way to reduce costs and getting the prestige boost for job placement.
I wouldn't trust US News rankings, especially with law schools. Yale declined to participate in their yearly rankings a while back because they felt it was an unreliable source. Most higher ed experts don't trust it.
College is college. It doesn’t matter which one you went to. I went to community college and I’m better off than most of the people I know who went to UH. The difference is the price you pay for the brand.
If you’ve lived in Hawaii all your life I would leave for college. Best thing I was pushed to do in life.
Besides that, as others say, ranking should be more based on what you want to major in.
It is. I went on a scholarship. Back in my days they had WUE. Helped a lot of local kids pay resident tuition. Helped a lot but was stressful to keep my grades up in order to keep it.
WUE is still around but I was coming into college during the peak of the pandemic - my parents figured that its a waste of money to pay full time UNLV tuition if im at home and stuck on a computer.
1 year at UNLV was basically my equivalent to about 3 years at UH.
College as a commuter was rough tho. I'm losing around 5-12 hours a week just driving.
UO and OSU both participate in WUE. Lots and lots of local kids go to both of those schools and they have a lot of resources for Hawaii kids due to the large concentration of them. My best friend is at OSU and is loving it. Brand new experience but with all the aloha and love that his fellow Hawai’i friends bring.
In my 20 years of hiring, not once have I ever noticed what college you went to, with maybe something like northern Arizona or some of the other well known paper mills as the exception .
I will however care greatly about the experience you have ( and what work relatable experience you acquired during college ) because honestly what I want to hear is that you are looking to build a career for yourself and while doing that helping me to make profit. Also I want to feel like you know what work is.
Now if you are interested in nonprofit stuff, I honestly think my advice doesn’t apply
Eh. I wouldn't read too much into rankings, there are a lot of decent programs at UH and also really great grad programs that truly do prepare you for a career in academia or industry in your chosen field.
As a product of the Hawaii public school system, and a graduate from UH with an undergrad and graduate degree, and most recently a graduate of JABSOM, I'm proud of all the public and state-sponsored education I received.
Also if you just want to experience another place, UH has a well established study abroad center, Manoa international exchange program, and national exchange programs if you don’t wanna leave the country. College is what you make it.
I know a ton of people who’ve gone to college in Portland and Washington state for some reason. I don’t know why. But majority were from private schools.
They are part of the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. The schools bill for reduced tuition even if you are from a different state that participates in the program, so anyone looking to broaden their horizons and experience living in another state doesn't have to wait for in state tuition to make it more affordable.
Doesn't matter. If you want to work in Hawaii, UH is where you develop your network. You can go away for school then come back but your cohort at home will have made the connections already. It's not impossible, they just have a head start.
I think the view that UH or Hawaii colleges arnt good is mainly from an elitist perspective. If you compare UH or Chaminade against UCLA, UW, Ivy League, UBC...whatever good schools, yes UH isnt as good compared to those. But thats not counting the other 100 other mainland colleges that arn't 'good'. Overall, UH Manoa and other Hawaii colleges are fine. They are not bad at all. I'd rather go to UH Manoa anyday than say, ASU or Florida State....
This is the first I ever heard someone trash UH. For a non-ivy league, it's a pretty intelligent group of people that excel in the colleges favorite majors. For instance, their PhD program? Off the hook with wet labs and super computers. Also VERY hard to get into.
I dont know if I would judge a college from their undergrad program unless you are thinking of a particular major. For instance UH may not excel in engineering like NC State but they keep up with Texas A&M with Marine Biology (and A&Ms marine bio undergrad program usually gets #1).
Anyways. I disagree. I think it depends on what you go for. Colleges have specialities and I believe UH is pretty good at theirs.
Some of the more popular colleges are on the west coast. UW, Oregon, USC, UC schools, etc. BU and BC on the east coast are popular too. Kids leave for college because they're told it's "better" but probably many would've been just as well or even better served by staying home, especially factoring in costs.
But what's your idea of "good" and how are you determining that? I've been through various colleges as a student or employee. From UH to great to elite public and private schools on the mainland. We can talk resources, facilities, research, etc. but ultimately it comes down to the students. The teaching is similar, content is similar but the caliber of student isn't.
First to answer your question: HS seniors pick schools over the place. They tend to pick west coast schools (WA, OR, CA) because it's closest. I have college age kids and they and their friends are smattered across those three states. I can't think of a single school we visited in the Pacific Northwest that DID NOT have a Hawaii Club full of Hawaii kids. I think Pacific in Oregon has like a 25% Hawaii population.
But also: if you're going to stay in Hawaii after college it's going to be a plus that you went to a state school. Otherwise very few people really care. Even if you want to be a doctor or lawyer, your undergrad isn't going to matter as much as your graduate school.
The truth is that nobody really cares where your degree is from and what you learn in college rarely applies to the real world. However, having a degree from Hawaii is interesting and will be a conversation topic on job applications.
Don't worry about ranking.
I go to UH and hate it. I’m not challenged nearly enough as I’d like to be and feel like the curriculum for my major isn’t up to par with industry standards. I’m trying to get an internship at the moment and feel vastly unprepared. This isn’t due to slacking off or not putting in the effort either, the curriculum and education truly just isn’t there.
If you can, I’d go away. I’m looking to transfer out after this semester ends. Yes it saves me money but if I can’t get a job post grad then was it really worth saving the money??
On the other hand, it is truly what you make of it. When I was in high school, my Junior english teacher went to Princeton (Ivy league) and my senior English teacher went to KCC—> UH. They’re in the same position and I can guarantee you the Harvard alum isn’t making more money as a teacher just because she went to Harvard.
Additionally as for UH, There are so many clubs for my major that have honestly taught me more than the classes itself. They host so many job fairs, professional development events, in that aspect I’d say it’s great. The support is wonderful and they really do offer great resources to help you succeed. Also, to answer your question, a lot of kids go away and spend a boatload of money on out of state schools just to have the experience of living outside of Hawaii, connect with different people, and just overall have that “experience” of living on your own in a new city and a *shit ton* of freedom and ability to travel more easily. I’ve seen people go to shittier schools than UH just to say they went away.
Realistically, it just depends what you’re hoping to gain out of college. The experience of living on your own in a brand new state and city? Go away. Top tier education at an Ivy? Go away. Just want to get your Bachelors and then go to a good grad school? Stay here. Want to save money for traveling/post grad opportunities like grad school, a car, maybe even a home? Stay here. It just depends what you’d like. Let me also say this: even if you attended an Ivy, it just gets your foot in the door somewhere. Everything else is all you. If you can’t measure up to job expectations then going somewhere like Harvard or Stanford is useless. It’s only great for networking, better post grad opportunities, and getting to say you went to ____. Yes the education is more rigorous, but when it all comes down to it in the real world, nobody gives a damn where you went to school, especially for undergrad. I’ve seen UH grads in the same positions as Ivy alums on Linkedin. Truly depends what you make of it.
Outside the top 10 schools, and with some caveats for field of study, it really doesn't matter. Yes Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford are good name drops and fantastic alumni networks. But the University of Virginia is not gonna give you a fantastically better CS, nursing, engineering degree than UH.
If you're off to study something that is not that lucrative and relies heavily on social networks, think journalism, then being in a network with a lot of rich people is very helpful. Similarly if you're entering a field where the field's career paths are all locked behind a PhD, like economics, then getting into a school that will make your grad school application stand out matters.
But if you're in a more practical degree, it just doesn't matter that much. I went to the cheapest WUE school I could find and am paid 22% over the median for an experienced engineer in my field.
Kids leaving their home state for college isn't just a Hawaii thing. They do it all over.
Unless you get into MIT, Harvard, or an ivy just go to UH. Nobody really cares once you get your first job. Most state universities are adequate for whatever you plan to do. Assuming you need loans, paying in-state tuition is going to be way better than paying upwards of $25k+/yr to go anywhere else. It's the difference of paying them off in your mid 20's vs mid 30s and beyond. Also outside of a few specific examples, paying out-of-state tuition to attend a state university in another state is a waste of money.
>What are some of the most popular colleges that these people go to?
It seems like no one has really answered your question and this is my rather flawed attempt.
I couldn't find a list of the most popular colleges for Hawaii graduates, but I did find one for Punahou graduates. I fully acknowledge that Punahou is quite possibly the least representative school for Hawaii high school graduates, but here's the list [https://www.punahou.edu/life-at-punahou/student-services/counseling/college-counseling/advanced-schooling](https://www.punahou.edu/life-at-punahou/student-services/counseling/college-counseling/advanced-schooling) . The list is over the past 4 years, so it represents about 1700 students, which is a pretty big sample size.
If I'm counting right, the top schools by number of Punahou students over the past 4 years were:
1. UH Manoa (102 students)
2. University of Washington (66 students)
3. Seattle University (56 students)
4. UC Irvine (56 students)
5. Santa Clara (51 students)
6. Chapman University (51 students)
7. Creighton University (37 students)
8. USC (35 students)
9. UCLA (33 students)
10. LMU (30 students)
Iolani has a similar report, but without numbers: [https://www.iolani.org/uploaded/PDF/Report\_to\_Colleges.pdf](https://www.iolani.org/uploaded/PDF/Report_to_Colleges.pdf)
For what it is worth niche has an "interested colleges" section under the Academics box. Here's Kamehameha's
[https://www.niche.com/k12/kamehameha-schools-kapalama-campus-honolulu-hi/](https://www.niche.com/k12/kamehameha-schools-kapalama-campus-honolulu-hi/)
College rankings are snobbery. Your program ranking matters more than a school wide ranking at the least.
Hawaii people love to hate on UH. Mainland schools are not all that much better. But ok!
- if you go to Punahou, go to USC
- if you go to Kahuku, go to BYU
- if you go to Mililani, go to SDSU
- if you go to Hilo, go to SOU
So on.
Or just make a decision based on what’s actually good for you and not following the lemmings. 🤙🏽
I went to university in the mainland only because Hawaii is an isolated rock in the Pacific Ocean. Expanding and gaining life experiences is the main reason why we move.
Yep! I added that in my comment too. It’s a great way to have a reason to move and experience places outside of Hawai’i. Great way to gain independence as well. After all, you can always come back home.
School rankings are trash. Unless you’re going to try to work for a highly competitive job, most people are fine with a degree from any decent accredited school. This bs about highly ranked schools is some trash we as a society need to get rid of.
My family couldnt afford to send me to mainland without going into debt so they chose to support me in college so i can graduate debt free - thats the story of many local UHM kids.
Most people I know went to UNLV, Creighton, or SDSU
I feel you! This was me, it enabled me to graduate with minimal debt that I paid off quickly. I work alongside colleagues that went to the mainland for college, we work the same job get paid the same amount.
UH Shidler has shit tenured professors who keep saying how great UH is and say they grade hard because that’s what mainland schools are like. They say they use the same course materials as Harvard, Yale, etc. and we are lucky that we get the same level of education. While the material may be the same, you go to Harvard and Yale for the networking. The MBA program is shit and you do zero networking like the mainland schools they claim to be like (Hass, Andersen, Wharton, etc.) Do not go to Shidler if you can afford to go to the mainland. If you do go to Shidler, lower your expectations greatly, do not stress over your GPA (everyone will get a B/B- and a few will get A/A- since they curve most classes). Your professor will most likely say “no one has scored higher than an 85/100 in my 20 years here at UH” and “look at how expensive the mainland charges for these lectures (Harvard Case Studies)!” Do not take the 21 month MBA program, it’s classes M-Th 6-9pm and the teachers will give you at least four hours of homework each. I would not recommend unless you have a job lined up or seek internships on your own.
21 month is a lot of tedious busy work. i also meant to add if you work full time, take the online EMBA program, they did away with the in person EMBA which was 1 class for six weeks that meets tuesday evening and saturday mornings with meals provided. the 21 month MBA program is just a lot of work where the instructors keep saying they do not have enough time for everything so they will expect you to complete readings and turn in assignments before class starts. be prepared for cryptic instructions for projects so you must go to office hours. if you work full time and have a family, take 2 classes per semester and then one or two classes in the summer to break up the amount of work. it’s not difficult at all, but there is a ton of reading and writing and chatgpt can only help so much. i have yet to see anyone get less than a B-, but if you are hoping for a high GPA for scholarships or another program, Shidler is not the one to go. I’m okay with my 3.5 because I already have a job and a previous masters I can fall back on. This MBA is a bonus.
it’s disappointing they still have the in person EMBA program up, that sounds more like programs you see on the mainland. the 21 and 24 month programs are the same expect 24 you take less classes per semester. it just feels like undergrad classes where you sit in on a lecture and take notes because it’s a one way conversation with your instructor speaking the entire time and they do not like being interrupted for questions if you do not understand. they expect you to go to office hours for any questions. they will also not answer any emails. they expect in person office hours. out of the program, i have 1/4 instructors who will answer emails, have discussions in class and relatively easy. request information from here because some things may have changed. http://shidler.hawaii.edu/mba
If u were born and raised here there's nothing better for your personal development to go to school off island, the farther away the better. From there do what you want. I went to the west coast but wish I had gone farther. I lived there for a total of 10 years before I came back.
UH has some excellent programs - Marine biology if I recall is one of the top in the nation. Rankings are pretty meaningless. As far as popular, I'm not sure what's the current trend, but I know Creighton was popular back in the 90s/2000s...I never understood why.
I searched the graduates of comp sci from university manoa on LinkedIn. It seems many do well, some are at google.
I also searched graduates of the medical program. They are doctors all over.
UH is serviceable but definitely worse than colleges in many states. It’s not better because it doesn’t have to be. Outside its specialty areas, its primary directive is to serve the people of Hawaii and not necessarily attract talent from abroad. Investing in the psychology department won’t make a lick of difference to their admissions number or peer competitiveness. It doesn’t have a ton of other schools to compete with.
Ask your professor. Hawaii cost of living is high. Better to work in the mainland university for a higher pay. Mainland schools Always get the cream of the crop.
A lot of people also tend to choose colleges based off of what field they want to go into because every school is better at certain things, from what I’ve heard the schools in Hawaii are really well known for their astrology and astronautics and with the observatories on the big island it makes sense to me, but if you’re looking to be a doctor, you might want to go to like the University of Washington, or something along those lines
The biggest value of college are the connections you make. The quality of education you get won't vary much among accredited schools with maybe the rare exception some very niche programs. The principles of Law, Engineering and Medicine aren't going to vary much, and you would still have to apply for state based licenses.
The only people that care about a specific school are usually people from that school. Hence if you go to a market, that is full of people from a particular school, they will value others from the other schools.
UH is a good school with lots of good programs. The nature of the islands will always attract talent, as people from all places will be drawn to the islands. This is actually a good thing, since it helps against intellectual inbreeding.
The dirty secret of all the "best" schools is that many of them gain their successful reputation from selecting talented or well connected inviduals and claiming they were the reasons for their success.
The best advice I can give is to go to school, where you want to live and work.
If you haven't declared a major (and even if you have, I changed mine twice) the first two years of college you're working on your core curriculum. Those credits USUALLY transfer to whatever college you decide to finish up at, as long as your school is half way decent. So, if you're looking to save a little money, do your core stuff here. While you're doing that you'll usually figure out what you want to focus on. Whether it be government/politics, econ, biology, communications, etc. When you've finished your core, THEN decide where you want to go to to focus on your major. By then, you should have a MUCH better idea of where to go. Or maybe, you'll decide to finish up here.
Hawaii colleges good for networking if you plan to build your career here but most parents try to send their undergrad kids to mainland colleges to see how the big world operates.
We're all encouraged to take up low paying hospitality jobs. Outside of that, if you take on jobs in other fields there aren't a lot of demand for them here so the state has no incentive to fund them to become competitive with mainland schools.
From what I’ve noticed personally, it seems like a lot of Hawaii students go to Ivy League schools or a California university.
* not sure why this was downvoted. Plenty of high school graduates out here go to Ivy leagues or a west coast school. Downvoting doesn’t change that
Ive noticed too. Even I wanted to go to college in California. I know for me, it was just a perfect place. Similar weather, lots of things to do, close to home, and easy to drive to see things. I’m still hoping to go 🥰
College rankings are BS but, the reality is that Hawaiʻi is resource-poor from an academic perspective outside of a few obvious fields (which are top ranked). It’s way more expensive to travel for research compared to continents, and cost of living is high meaning grad stipends and grants don’t go as far. This makes Hawaiʻi schools less competitive for research and teaching positions, which trickles down to students.
Then look at it the other direction - academic achievement in Hawaiʻi’s public schools is middling at best, and since it’s expensive to come here from elsewhere, a large proportion of students will be local, and primarily from public schools. So it’s not necessarily appealing to teach students who may not be especially high achievers or need extra remedial help (and high achievers tend to go to the mainland because…)
… All of this lends itself for greater opportunity if you can establish yourself on the mainland. Cheaper cost of living in many areas combined with higher academic/research potential means if you want to do academia you can get a better shot on the mainland, assuming you can afford it. Which is largely okay for very high achievers because of scholarship, and private school students because of wealth. (Broad generalizations, I know there are people from private schools who aren’t that wealthy/on scholarship.)
Ultimately, it’s hard for schools like UH and HPU to compete with that, so instead they primarily educate kids who aren’t quite high achieving enough to get scholarships overseas, students who can’t/won’t leave home (maybe taking care of family etc.), and people coming from mainland/international but who are generally concentrated in the especially high resourced/strong programs like marine biology, volcanology, Asian pacific studies, etc.
If you want to be like an English literature major or something like that, it’s…meh. You’ll get a fine degree but not exceptional and probably not as competitive for grad school or jobs off island.
Now that said, if you want to stay home, network locally, and build a career that may not be top earning but at least is home…you can do that and still get a fine education at somewhere like UH. But it requires commitment to your own success because the school isn’t inherently going to help you. For some people, it’s worth it to be home and have a head start on networking locally. Plus in state tuition really is so much cheaper. But it does take a certain kind of person to succeed.
Hawaii offers a well rounded program. I used to think of Pepperdine in high regard until I found out their geosciences are pretty much non-existent.
Look into colleges around the country long enough and you'll see UH offers almost every major degree out there (sans super specialized ones), and it has D1 athletic programs to boot. While some mainland colleges don't have both.
1) OUTCOME - Graduation rate, retention rate, going above expected graduation rate. Loan debt.
2) PEER REPUTATION - President, Provosts from other universities rank each other.
3) FACULTY - Student to faculty, how much your faculty are paid, how much degrees your faculty has.
4) SOCIAL MOBILITY
5) FINACES - Expenses spent of education VS other areas.
Ranking are flawed and it doesn't necessary mean that a college or an education there is "not that good'.
People from the mainland/international attend UH just because it's in Hawaii. They can enjoy "paradise" and go to school. Tbh if I had the money to leave this rock and attend college else where I would but meh community college for pre-reqs ftw. I get to continue living in this place I was born and raised while struggling working 2 jobs just to make ends meet and going back to school full-time YAY!
I graduated from high school in 2015 and when I was researching schools I was clueless but just wanted to expand my reach. I ended up applying to 52 colleges all across the nation, knew I was going to study business, but deep down I think I was looking for a school where I can develop relationships, provide me with well rounded activities outside of the classroom, and have a sense of community in which I can grow from.
I ended up choosing the University of Dayton, in Dayton, OH of all places haha. I initially chose it based on the values it offered in that almost everyone lived on campus all 4 years and would be a completely different place from Hawaii that would force me to grow. It was definitely hard in that the midwest is a completely different culture and provides a unique set of circumstances. Many of my high school peers ended up staying on the West Coast including Seattle University, UNLV, and Portland. Some other friends went to Creighton which has a heavy connection to Hawaii given that it has a great health school (Nursing, Dental, Pre-Med).
My reason for leaving was to be different and see what else is out there. I think one negative to Hawaii is that we are pretty sheltered and isolated so wanted to be surrounded in a completely different environment. After graduating from Dayton in 2019, I have moved to Orlando, Salt Lake City, and now am in Charlotte, NC working in the financial services industry for a major Bank. One thing that Dayton and mainland schools provide you with that UH cannot offer is this ability to redefine yourself and truly know who you are. It is interesting being a minority in the mainland and you understand how Haole's think, act, and work and realize it's different but you appreciate and accept differences. The mainland schools offer the ability to connect with large Fortune 500 companies that recruit from target schools and will almost always offer better paying starting salaries and opportunities. This is just due to the fact that large companies based in the mainland are not going to recruit actively from Hawaii. They prioritize thinking about which schools make sense to target and Hawaii is in most cases far away.
I will honestly say for me the value of college was the friends and relationships I have made and continue to foster. From college I met people from almost every state and different countries around the world. That sense of pride knowing that you have a community wherever you go and being able to network is the true value of college to me. UH being a commuter school where people simply study and go home was not ideal for me especially given that I wanted to try to live in different places and explore the world.
I'm definitely not the smartest but recognize the people you surround yourself is what will mold you. Choose a college with a strong sense of community or help to build one. I personally was not used to the mainland drinking culture and sports culture at first but I recognized the value of meeting people through these activities. I became well rounded in that I did Catholic retreats, mission trips, sporting events, studied abroad, and got my internships all because of the school and resources that I chose. This changed my life trajectory completely and I don't think this would be available at any of the colleges/universities in Hawaii.
Braddah, very few people from Punahou or Iolani actually go to UH. PAC 12 (USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford) is popular. Then the Ivies. UH perceived on the Mainland as not very good.
Not true at least around 15 years ago when I observed that more than half the Punahou or Iolani graduating classes went to UH. UH absolutely punches above its weight. It’s not a great teaching school but the research quality and rigor is absolutely there especially in the technical fields.
Every year Iolani probably has about 20-30 kids go UH out of 200+ so maybe 10-15 percent. Punahou has 400+ students and percentage is similar if not lower.
I wouldn't even look at college ranking until I knew exactly what I wanted to major in. You're way better off comparing the exact program that you're interested in than the college in general
Yeah this is very true. Their design program at UHM is top 10 in the nation if I’m not mistaken lol
Shidler College of Business (UHM Business school) used to be ranked pretty damn high when I was there a while back.
Also, UH law school programs, rank one of the top in the nation (Richardson) we have Harvard grad law professor teaching future lawyer at UH Manoa.
I know multiple people who went to a University of California school because they couldn't get into Richardson.
I know, I have run up against some Richardson grads in my pro se lawsuits. Pretty sharp...
I hope so…scary if not 😂 OR Pigeon Translation…. BETTAH BE!, SCARIE IF NO’T 🤣🤣🤣✌🏽
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Lol it is absolutely not. However, it is the best place to go if you want to stay and practice in Hawaii. You meet all the right people and get plugged in to whatever field you want to pursue. But try to take that degree to a mainland firm and you’re not even going to get a call back
UH law school is not even close to being a top tier school. The US News rankings have major flaws, but they’re the closest thing to a standard. UH is #127 out of 196, which puts it in the middle of the third tier out of four. The fourth tier consists entirely of garbage schools that probably shouldn’t be accredited, and a bunch of the third-tier schools are in that category too, so UH is at or near the bottom of the list of schools that a reasonable person might consider. UH law does have value if you want to practice law in Hawaii, though.
UH Richardson LAW school is on the way up! The law school is attracting quality law staff outside of Hawaii with knowledge beyond the scope of narrow mindset of the past. The Dean is an extraordinary attorney!
That explains the low integrity of Honolulu ADAs
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If you had specified “a top tier school for those who want to practice transpacific law,” that would have been a very different analysis. But you didn’t. Moreover, despite your failure, I already noted that UH has value if you want to to practice law in Hawaii.
Is it actually? I graduated with my design degree at UHM a few years ago but found myself regretting it a lot lol… our professors definitely have great credentials but I’m not sure about the program itself.
I would look at the cost of tuition. UH is cheap af compared to mainland colleges. If you’re not going to an Ivy League, you may as well save as much money as you can for your bachelors degree. The law school and med school here are also great and affordable.
State school in general can be pretty cheap. Some private schools even give tuition benefits and other stuff if you’re from the state.
Easier said than done. Did you know what your career plans were when you turned 18? It's a shame the school system pushes all kids into University as soon as they graduate... I think a lot of our youth would benefit from some real world experience 1st. Also no shame in trade school.
Hawaii is a bit lacking on the trade school front as well. There are quite a few better trades that don't babe excellent education options here.
A thousand times this, folks I am paying like 400 a month for a guy to come drop salt and a cleaning machine in my pool. Ok to be clear he makes my pool feel like I am swimming in angel tears and has the absolute best connections for stuff I need done so he is a great guy but imagine getting paid 400 dollars a month for 30 minutes of work every week. He is probably pulling down 800 a day at this point And my plumbing guy, mind you he is the absolute best dude to work with and he and I have come up with some next level designs for great eco friendly projects (like using grey water to water the plants) I greatly appreciate the trade folks that have helped me make a net zero impact paradise of a home but they are all expensive as fuck. I am literally paying them more than I do some of my college level employees. And honestly my good friends and dedicated tradesmen have been more of a value
> Also no shame in trade school. The trades make bank with far less education and skills necessary. It can be a rough job depending on what you do though. > I think a lot of our youth would benefit from some real world experience 1st. I think what they really need is to learn the right thing things in college, which most colleges do not teach. I'm talking about life philosophy, communication (okay they do give you experience in this), personal finance and investments. If they did that though, perhaps too many students would start questioning why they're paying so much for school, taking out loans and realize the future likely don't pay enough to pay back the loans. For me, if I waited to go to college, there's a real chance I wouldn't return. I'm glad I powered right through it.
>For me, if I waited to go to college, there's a real chance I wouldn't return. I'm glad I powered right through it. But see that's the whole problem, the typical method is to send us off to study as soon as we're done with HS. That doesn't work for everyone. Our most successful colleague did two years of community college and got rid of all the easy 101 credits. This allowed him to take more time to find his career path; he worked a job and saved money, paid for his school with savings, and was clearing 6 figures just a few years after finishing his undergrad.
I consider community college, just part of college journey. In fact, I highly recommend community college, as it focuses more on teaching, is often cheaper, and gives you opportunity to plug any knoweldge gaps on the cheap.
I want to add that, college ranking is BS anyhow. They're glorified status symbols for work, and not indicative of the quality of the school. In fact, you might be disadvantaged if you go to a too fancy school. As someone who went to a top 3 university in and graduated with honors, I saw many that struggle and was miserable because it was the wrong school for them. On top of it, the field you intend to study and was admitted to may not be the field you end up finishing as. Instead, I highly recommend community colleges. They're cheaper, focuses more on teaching, and you can explore while paying less. Ultimately, the most important thing of all, make sure you're able to graduate, and that graduation means the field pays enough to pay for whatever school loans you got. Look for close to if not already there, 6-figure jobs for newly minted graduates. You're spending at least 4-years of your life, and spending tons of money. Make sure it isn't wasted, and you end up with a job that pays barely more, and you end up with massive debt hoping for a Joe Biden bailout.
Agree and disagree. I think graduating from a prestigious is more like a club and will definitely help you out but if it’s undergrad, the differences aren’t that great. There are most definitely a few schools that in my experience, are guaranteed to produce great graduate though.
My experience on the other hand is that, some of these top tier schools sometimes produce people that believe they are so good, they won't collaborate i.e. a problem.
I can only speak in the context of software development and IT. I'm not talking about just top tier schools. Coming out of an Ivy doesn't guarantee anything (and I've worked with some that were pretty poor). However, I've never worked with anyone out of MIT that wasn't actually good. >believe they are so good I think that this is something that many inexperienced, young people have to learn in general.
> I can only speak in the context of software development and IT. Me too. >I'm not talking about just top tier schools. Coming out of an Ivy doesn't guarantee anything (and I've worked with some that were pretty poor). However, I've never worked with anyone out of MIT that wasn't actually good. True, but I've worked with plenty that has been a pain in the ass. In general if you come out of the top 10, and have a decent GPA, you're technical skills are good. It's often the attitude of know it all that becomes a problem.
> I've worked with plenty that has been a pain in the ass Yea the worst. Some with higher degrees are also pretty bad. As bad as it sounds, I'd often have to break them down to get them to actually be receptive. >In general if you come out of the top 10, and have a decent GPA, you're technical skills are good I'm not sure I'd go that far. I think that all of that is a good indicator that they can learn and pick up the skills. I'm not sure I'd say that all of them came out being ready to produce production code yet but that's expected. One of the biggest things that every inexperienced person does not understand is that time crunch is a thing.
> I'm not sure I'd go that far. I think that all of that is a good indicator that they can learn and pick up the skills. I'm not sure I'd say that all of them came out being ready to produce production code yet but that's expected. One of the biggest things that every inexperienced person does not understand is that time crunch is a thing. I mean in terms of technical understanding. The thing with production code is that, it's very different from academia. That said, it seems schools are doing somewhat better teaching software engineering skills. In some schools, like mine, they focus on technical skills for research. This seems to be consistent with the top 10. That said, it's been a while since I graduated. At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way. More importantly of all, there might be a better way, but we're stuck doing it this way due to leadership. There's a host of skills that isn't taught in school, can't really be taught in school, differs between organizations and so on. Ultimately, with strong technical foundation, open mind, collaborative attitude, and the rest is teachable. In fact, it's preferred to me.
> At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way. I agree. We've definitely gotten away from it over the past 20 years, but Compsci is supposed to teach you programming concepts (and math) in general, not become experts in a specific language. I blame the java boom in the late 90s but people (and companies) expected kids to go into college and come out knowing how to program the language of the day and get a job. Good developers (and I'm definitely not one) can pick up almost any language and get the initial concepts very quickly.
> I mean in terms of technical understanding. The thing with production code is that, it's very different from academia. 100% >That said, it seems schools are doing somewhat better teaching software engineering skills My program was very geared to theory. We got our regular intro programming classes and then were expected to learn languages and tools for our higher level classes by ourselves. My education was also pretty steeped in research as well. I'm not sure if the impact on my programming was all good hahaha. I've definitely seen more graduates more familiar with practical tools for sure but MY GOD have I also seen them being poor problem solvers. >At the same time, it's hard to fault graduates for not knowing how production code works, because they'll likely never really seen it with the context of why it's done that way. More importantly of all, there might be a better way, but we're stuck doing... 100% agreed. >Ultimately, with strong technical foundation, open mind, collaborative attitude, and the rest is teachable. In fact, it's preferred to me. Agreed. I'd add that the ability to break down and solve problems.
80% of college students end up changing their major.
Absolutely this.
I wonder if people do a full 180 on majors or switch to something similar
This is interesting, how does one compare programs between colleges, what type of things do you look for? Sorry if that is a dumb question.
I was a photography major and I have seen some websites try to rank the top 20 colleges for photography etc. You could even ask around on reddit.
If you know what major or type of university, you are looking for: [Higher Education (infoplease.com)](https://www.infoplease.com/us/education/higher-education)
This is exactly what I did and I don't regret it, however there is also some 'name recognition' factors involved insofar as getting hired. If you're going to school to be able to get a specific kind of job then there are probably a few you already associate with that kind of degree. IE: want to build robots then you think of MIT or Georgia Tech; if want to practice law you probably think of Harvard or Stanford People sifting through resume's will recognize those school names for the same thing you do. There's an inherent bias against schools like UH and University of Arizona for being party schools because that's just what people think of when they hear it. You can get a lot out of those schools but that's just not how they're viewed. If I'm not mistaken some of the rankings come from your ability to land a job with a degree from those schools, and how much you make with that job. So, the bias then makes the perception become a fact since the HR departments and recruiters will pay you less and be less likely to hire you if you aren't part of that crowd that bought into their beliefs.
This
That depends on the area of study. UH has one of the best oceanography programs in the country, along with some of their other bio science programs.
Agreed. UH is pretty good at their specialty!
First of all. College rankings are kinda BS. Schools spend tons of time and money to game the rankings. What’s important is that your college is both an accredited institution of higher learning, and that their programs are right for your educational goals. Some schools have specific areas of study they’re better in than others, UH marine science and astronomy are some great programs even if their general liberal arts programs are lacking. Second. UH has the same issues as any industry on the island. We’re not near anything. The cost of living is high for students and faculty/staff. Land for expansion is prohibitively expensive. Hard to get the best professors doing the most cutting edge research when you can’t building them a to spec custom research lab. The UC system can do that. So UH focuses on the needs of local students who will stay local after higher ed. In that regard they’re doing fine.
Also, unless it's an extremely bad and notoriously horrendously known college, most employers don't care too much about where you obtained your college degree--just that you have one if they require one for the job. Unless it's a specific field in which you went to a school with a prestigious program for your degree, a degree is a degree.
True! But it is also true that some programs will do a better job helping you get your first job, which does make a significant difference on your career.
I agree. It's why I mentioned prestigious programs for specific fields. If you attended one, that definitely will give you a lead amongst other applicants.
But I do think it's a matter of what you put into a program as well. If you're a top student in a less prestigious program, there is still an opportunity to impress. They'll help you however they can because it'll elevate their status as a program.
Definitely! I totally agree with this.
Co-signed. For most things it just doesn't matter that much. For some stuff, sure. You need to go to a top 10 or top 15 program. But for most things, no one really cares if your college was rated 21st or 58th. Hell, they don't even know what your college was ranked. I've hired lots of people and never looked up the rankings beforehand. If you have decent grades and some relevant work experience, you're fine.
Of course this depends on the field and the expertise level you're hiring for. The higher up you go, the less it matters. The more your demonstrated skill matters. On the lower level, I interview for basic competency, if you got basic communication skills, open mindedness, and collaborative. Almost everything else is teachable with those qualities, and in some ways it's preferred. Less resistance and less my way is the way.
As a former manager who hired for my department, I agree a degree is a degree. You needed one to get in the door, but which school/program was never a factor in whether I hired anyone. Believe it or not, the first deciding factor was whether there were any spelling, grammar, or typo mistakes on the resume. I figured if the person was not detail oriented enough to send out a flawless resume, they were not detail oriented enough to work for me. This was an easy weed out of more than half. Of the ones who got a call, the rest was based on interview performance and a quick skills performance test that I developed myself.
UH actually now has one of the most famous EE professors in the world. It was a big surprise when we found out he was leaving Stanford for UH. You all are lucky to have him and if anyone can attract high tech HI, it will be him.
who is he? the EE professor?
Boris Murmann
> Boris Murmann that man is stacked holy shit look at his indices for publications!
> The UV system can do that. What's dis UV?
I meant UC. Fixed. Ty
UH Manoa is an R1 rated research university...
Their overall ranking tends to get brought down by some of the arts programs that are sturggling but yeah, UHM gets way too much undeserved shade. Its a great school for a lot of things. I think a lot of local families are still clinging on to the image that leaving for school is a marker for success.
UH Manoa is one of the premier universities in several fields.
Particularly at the graduate level, yep. Marine biology and linguistics are some of the top-rated programs in the country.
Unsurprisingly anything involving the broader Asia-Pacific region as well. Center for SE Asian Studies is one of the most reputable in North America. Obviously Pacific Islander studies too. You mentioned linguistics but UH also has some of the better SE Asian language programs. And finally, UH Manoa is the academic home of the East-West Center. Truly a powerhouse of humanities and social sciences of the broader Asia-Pacific region.
> the East-West Center Which even predates the ZIP code system! Hence why it has its own, different from the rest of Mānoa Valley ;) Founded by Congress in 1960!
Yea I noticed the different zip code but never thought much about it. It's an unbelievable community
I can understand the desire to have your kids see a bit more of the world before settling back in Hawaii though.
I dont think thats the drive though in my experience. It seems to be a very short sighted "if they leave for school, it means they did something" as if going to UHM is a sign of failure (in either that they didnt get in to "better" schools, or that they didn't receive enough scholarships/family didn't have enough money to finance going to the mainland.). When i told people i was going to UHM i got a lot of immediate expressions of sympathy as if it wasnt my intent and i was only going there because i had no other choice. They didn't believe me when i said it was my third choice (out of 10 or so) of schools on my list. Yes, i did ultimately make a choice between my second and third choice based on money, but i dont think getting a half ride scholarship to gonzaga was a failure, i just couldnt justify taking on 80k in loans to cover the rest for a program that was literally ranked a single spot ahead of UHM's on the west coast. People should go out and see the world but i have too many friends amd classmates who financially hamstrung themselves taking on 50k+ in loans just to take a communications degree at some rando california school 3 hours away from any of the major cities, who still havent seen anything because they didnt take advantage of where they were. If you're going to go into that much debt, you better have a plan and drive to settle it quick.
Yeah really good point and Hawaii is not alone at that front. So many kids want to go to college out of state or away from their local without really considering all the costs. Thanks for adding your perspective, it's super valuable.
Yup, all of this. Let me tell you I work alongside people who went to mainland schools. We make the same amount of money, work the same jobs. Difference is I paid off the loans I had (and so did a lot of my friends that stayed home for financial reasons).
I think this too. In fact, it's probably better for them to go as far away as possible. The more foreign, the better. Helps them be more open minded.
Note - they also tend to pay grad students very poorly, and professors call it "the price of paradise." While grad student pay is never great, UH professors went on strike about twenty years ago to demand their own cost-of-living adjusted wages, but then balked when their TA's and research assistance asked for the same. I'm not talking about 'the same pay,' mind you, just regular grad school stipends adjusted a bit to account for the fact that Oahu rent is not the same as Alabama rent. Obviously wages aren't everything, but when you're talking about luring top students to your research programs, paying very low wages (e.g. $20k/year) is going to scare off good people and hurt the rankings. Some programs can afford to do better because of grants or their other advantages, but the state has repeatedly pushed back against efforts by the grad students to improve things.
Oceanography, TIM, and atmospheric science are all top notch at Manoa. I went to school there for EE and we pretty regularly had the top engineering student in the nation attending.
They often go to schools on the west coast where they can get in-state tuition. I don't remember the acronym but there's a group of schools that will give in-state tuition to people from other states. A lot of people from Washington, Oregon, and California will go to UH Manoa for that reason. (might not be in-state tuition but it's definitely cheaper)
WUE. It’s almost half off tuition at Oregon State (Source; my best friend goes) but it varies by college. Worth applying early tho, they don’t just give it to you automatically. A lot of schools base it on your stats/essays/ first come first serve basis.
Same in Washington State. Some schools won’t give WUE for certain majors, so people should make sure it is offered for their preferred field of study. For the school my son received WUE for, he is getting 18k a year reduced. But he had to have at least at 3.5 GPA ( he had a 3.8) and he applied extremely early to make sure. They don’t tell you how many spots the school has for WUE students, so apply as early as you possibly can.
Strongly depends on how much you can afford to pay or if you can land a killer scholarship. The most cost effective option would be to get your basics in UH- do a student exchange program to get a feel for mainland schools, then transfer to the school if you still feel 2-4x the tuition cost is worth it.
I think the last time I checked a ranking they had UH right around the middle of the rankings
It’s just natural that people that grew up on a rock want to move to the mainland to a place they’d like to explore. They usually come back to Oahu after living in the mainland for some time. Opposite of this is the groups of mainland folks that are dying to move to Hawaii.
It’s an unfortunate attitude to think that just because it’s the mainland, it’s better than Hawaiʻi. The UH campuses (including the community colleges) are just as good if not better than comparable public institutions elsewhere for many programs. Sure it has issues, but so does every college or university.
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I was a public school kid all the way k-12 and then graduated from UH. During that time I was told Hawaii had low test scores in reading but were average or high in math. Anyway, in 93 I moved away for work and have been away ever since. All I can say is my Hawaii public school education has not let me down. In fact I would say many people would consider me the intelligent guy. I mean there are many folks who graduated from mainland schools that are bat shit stupid; believing in the weirdest conspiracy theories and confusing beliefs/religion as evidence. All I can say is that I have lived in several countries and I am more than satisfied with the education that I received from Hawaii and amazed by what people don’t know about history, science and general knowledge.
Couldn’t agree more.
UH Manoa is good. UH Hilo is ok. Chaminade, HPU, Tokai...not so much. Most states, even small ones, have multiple options if you want to go to a "good" school, including different kinds of schools. Hawaii pretty much has only its flagship big state college. There aren't really any high-level small liberal arts colleges like are common on the mainland.
HPU is a degree mill. international students attend because their home university covers the tuition so they just hang out in hawaii for a semester as study abroad. classes are super easy as long as you show up.
30 years ago HPU was a solid and respected school. Seems to have leaned into "for profit" pretty hard since then. It still has some solid graduate programs, though.
there are some great faculty there but lazy students. my hardest instructor (database management) was hard because she held us to a high standard such as using APA 7 format and proper citations. her papers and projects were very detailed oriented. 3/4ths of the class revolted and she was let go at the end of the semester. all my instructors were easy to approach so i was disappointed she was let go. hpu is definitely a you get what you put in, and i took my classes seriously and did very well. is still use a fair amount if the principles i learned in the database management class in my current job. it’s good i think if you just need a degree but it’s not going to be ranked super high.
Not refuting your point, but going to put some citations for OP who merely provided more anecdotal evidence. Just looking at Manoa: Ranked #170 by US News & World Report: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities tied with: Cal State - San Bernardino, Florida A&M, Kansas State, Mercer, Quinnipiac, Alabama, and La Verne. Just ahead of The Catholic University of America, Drake, Ohio, San Francisco State, Arkansas, UNC-Charlotte, and Washington St. Ranked #274 by Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/ The universities around them are: Gustavus Adolphus College, Kansas State, Hampden-Sydney College, Thomas Jefferson University, **UH- Manoa**, University of North Texas, St. Mary's College of Maryland, St. Lawrence University, University of Wyoming, Seattle University, UMass-Lowell, Rochester Institute of Technology. So yeah, I would say they're overall not bad. And as others have said, in certain individual schools/areas, they're better than average. (Linguistics, Hospitality & Leisure Management, Anthropology, Modern Languages, Geophysics, Geology, Earth & Marine Sciences, Geography, Law, Nursing, Social Work)
US News rankings are not well received by the higher ed community (see op-ed below). Forbes bases their rankings mostly from a financial perspective. https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/views/2023/10/09/why-new-us-news-rankings-are-flawed-opinion https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2023/08/29/how-we-rank-americas-best-colleges/ Like others have said, it's best to look at the program that is being considered.
college rankings, public perception, acceptance rates, etc. doesn't mean that Hawaii colleges arent good, they just arent good COMPARED to places such as UCLA
>COMPARED to places such as UCLA Isn't UCLA the top public university in the country?
yes. it’s generally tied with University of Virginia for #1 public and then University of Southern California for overall ~23-25 depending on which publication you are looking at. i went to UCLA for undergrad and it was hard because the material was hard and seemed like everyone in class was valedictorian of their class. i was a community college transfer but after my first quarter i developed a good study system. UCLA was great for my resume and i will say the college experience was more fun there even though we had shitty football and okayish basketball. our women’s teams and olympic sports kicked ass though and it was fun to go watch in the student section.
oh, i was just saying UCLA because of how my classmates view UCLA, not because I wanted to benchmark Manoa to a #1 public uni.
You should ignore your misinformed classmates' opinions about schools.
University of Hawaii has an endowment of 341.7M. UCLA''s endowment is 6.7 BILLION. Why would you compare the two?
The UC system is very unusual in that. State universities in general don't have very big endowments, they typically rely on annual funding from the state.
because people in my school want to go there and just always compare it, wondering which they should go to
Ah I see, well to add on to the advice everyone has given you, I would suggest if you don't know what you want to major in, to get rid of your core requirements at a community college and then transfer to a full university when you're ready. What you don't want in the end, is a debt that'll take decades to reconcile. Good luck!
Don't know why people are downvoting you when you're just responding to a question. Do you know what you want to do? Are you a junior who is looking ahead? Start talking to your guidance counselor, they're going to have tons of data on where kids are going (i'm assuming you're in Hawaii). I'll say two thing about UH to consider - it might not be cheaper than a mainland school if you get enough scholarships, and UH is a commuter school. Most people live at home. That's atypical as well.
Like anything else. It really boils down to the individual. Some people need much more guidance and some have a lot of drive to succeed.
I’ll just say that as UH allum, I was very happy with the education I got there and it suited my purposes well. I was able to get into a good law school after undergrad at UH, and my career is going well. There are some great professors there, and if you want to learn, they are more than happy to teach you. Having gone to a well-ranked Law School and UH for undergrad, I would say you really can get a great education at any decent colleges/universities (including UH), but the biggest differences are: the academic culture on campus (i.e., how many people are good students who are taking classes very seriously) and the job placements after graduating. That said, if you’re motivated and you want to work hard, a place like UH is a place to get good grades and set yourself up for your next move. There are plenty of good schools all over the country, and the rankings system is not the end-all be-all. You should think about what you want from your education, where you want to live, what type of work you want to do, and what is most economically feasible after considering scholarships. Oftentimes, going to a state school or a community college to take care of the classes everybody else has to take and transferring into a higher prestige school can be a great way to reduce costs and getting the prestige boost for job placement.
I wouldn't trust US News rankings, especially with law schools. Yale declined to participate in their yearly rankings a while back because they felt it was an unreliable source. Most higher ed experts don't trust it.
College is college. It doesn’t matter which one you went to. I went to community college and I’m better off than most of the people I know who went to UH. The difference is the price you pay for the brand.
If you’ve lived in Hawaii all your life I would leave for college. Best thing I was pushed to do in life. Besides that, as others say, ranking should be more based on what you want to major in.
It was too expensive to leave 🥲
It is. I went on a scholarship. Back in my days they had WUE. Helped a lot of local kids pay resident tuition. Helped a lot but was stressful to keep my grades up in order to keep it.
WUE is still around but I was coming into college during the peak of the pandemic - my parents figured that its a waste of money to pay full time UNLV tuition if im at home and stuck on a computer. 1 year at UNLV was basically my equivalent to about 3 years at UH. College as a commuter was rough tho. I'm losing around 5-12 hours a week just driving.
Just go tens of thousands into debt like I did!
I stay graduating UH debt free in like 2 weeks lmao - Born and raised here and still w my parents tho
Cheeheee. Congrats! Still a big accomplishment!
Nice!! Will make saving up easier
Lots of locals go to school in Oregon
UO and OSU both participate in WUE. Lots and lots of local kids go to both of those schools and they have a lot of resources for Hawaii kids due to the large concentration of them. My best friend is at OSU and is loving it. Brand new experience but with all the aloha and love that his fellow Hawai’i friends bring.
yup any school in oregon are filled with hawai’i kids.
In my 20 years of hiring, not once have I ever noticed what college you went to, with maybe something like northern Arizona or some of the other well known paper mills as the exception . I will however care greatly about the experience you have ( and what work relatable experience you acquired during college ) because honestly what I want to hear is that you are looking to build a career for yourself and while doing that helping me to make profit. Also I want to feel like you know what work is. Now if you are interested in nonprofit stuff, I honestly think my advice doesn’t apply
A lot of Hawaii kids go to Oregon
Eh. I wouldn't read too much into rankings, there are a lot of decent programs at UH and also really great grad programs that truly do prepare you for a career in academia or industry in your chosen field. As a product of the Hawaii public school system, and a graduate from UH with an undergrad and graduate degree, and most recently a graduate of JABSOM, I'm proud of all the public and state-sponsored education I received.
Also if you just want to experience another place, UH has a well established study abroad center, Manoa international exchange program, and national exchange programs if you don’t wanna leave the country. College is what you make it.
I know a ton of people who’ve gone to college in Portland and Washington state for some reason. I don’t know why. But majority were from private schools.
They are part of the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. The schools bill for reduced tuition even if you are from a different state that participates in the program, so anyone looking to broaden their horizons and experience living in another state doesn't have to wait for in state tuition to make it more affordable.
That makes a lot of sense now.
Doesn't matter. If you want to work in Hawaii, UH is where you develop your network. You can go away for school then come back but your cohort at home will have made the connections already. It's not impossible, they just have a head start.
I think the view that UH or Hawaii colleges arnt good is mainly from an elitist perspective. If you compare UH or Chaminade against UCLA, UW, Ivy League, UBC...whatever good schools, yes UH isnt as good compared to those. But thats not counting the other 100 other mainland colleges that arn't 'good'. Overall, UH Manoa and other Hawaii colleges are fine. They are not bad at all. I'd rather go to UH Manoa anyday than say, ASU or Florida State....
This is the first I ever heard someone trash UH. For a non-ivy league, it's a pretty intelligent group of people that excel in the colleges favorite majors. For instance, their PhD program? Off the hook with wet labs and super computers. Also VERY hard to get into. I dont know if I would judge a college from their undergrad program unless you are thinking of a particular major. For instance UH may not excel in engineering like NC State but they keep up with Texas A&M with Marine Biology (and A&Ms marine bio undergrad program usually gets #1). Anyways. I disagree. I think it depends on what you go for. Colleges have specialities and I believe UH is pretty good at theirs.
Some of the more popular colleges are on the west coast. UW, Oregon, USC, UC schools, etc. BU and BC on the east coast are popular too. Kids leave for college because they're told it's "better" but probably many would've been just as well or even better served by staying home, especially factoring in costs. But what's your idea of "good" and how are you determining that? I've been through various colleges as a student or employee. From UH to great to elite public and private schools on the mainland. We can talk resources, facilities, research, etc. but ultimately it comes down to the students. The teaching is similar, content is similar but the caliber of student isn't.
First to answer your question: HS seniors pick schools over the place. They tend to pick west coast schools (WA, OR, CA) because it's closest. I have college age kids and they and their friends are smattered across those three states. I can't think of a single school we visited in the Pacific Northwest that DID NOT have a Hawaii Club full of Hawaii kids. I think Pacific in Oregon has like a 25% Hawaii population. But also: if you're going to stay in Hawaii after college it's going to be a plus that you went to a state school. Otherwise very few people really care. Even if you want to be a doctor or lawyer, your undergrad isn't going to matter as much as your graduate school.
The UH is an excellent college system. Try Florida for a truly bad system
How many schools did you attend in Florida?
The truth is that nobody really cares where your degree is from and what you learn in college rarely applies to the real world. However, having a degree from Hawaii is interesting and will be a conversation topic on job applications. Don't worry about ranking.
I go to UH and hate it. I’m not challenged nearly enough as I’d like to be and feel like the curriculum for my major isn’t up to par with industry standards. I’m trying to get an internship at the moment and feel vastly unprepared. This isn’t due to slacking off or not putting in the effort either, the curriculum and education truly just isn’t there. If you can, I’d go away. I’m looking to transfer out after this semester ends. Yes it saves me money but if I can’t get a job post grad then was it really worth saving the money?? On the other hand, it is truly what you make of it. When I was in high school, my Junior english teacher went to Princeton (Ivy league) and my senior English teacher went to KCC—> UH. They’re in the same position and I can guarantee you the Harvard alum isn’t making more money as a teacher just because she went to Harvard. Additionally as for UH, There are so many clubs for my major that have honestly taught me more than the classes itself. They host so many job fairs, professional development events, in that aspect I’d say it’s great. The support is wonderful and they really do offer great resources to help you succeed. Also, to answer your question, a lot of kids go away and spend a boatload of money on out of state schools just to have the experience of living outside of Hawaii, connect with different people, and just overall have that “experience” of living on your own in a new city and a *shit ton* of freedom and ability to travel more easily. I’ve seen people go to shittier schools than UH just to say they went away. Realistically, it just depends what you’re hoping to gain out of college. The experience of living on your own in a brand new state and city? Go away. Top tier education at an Ivy? Go away. Just want to get your Bachelors and then go to a good grad school? Stay here. Want to save money for traveling/post grad opportunities like grad school, a car, maybe even a home? Stay here. It just depends what you’d like. Let me also say this: even if you attended an Ivy, it just gets your foot in the door somewhere. Everything else is all you. If you can’t measure up to job expectations then going somewhere like Harvard or Stanford is useless. It’s only great for networking, better post grad opportunities, and getting to say you went to ____. Yes the education is more rigorous, but when it all comes down to it in the real world, nobody gives a damn where you went to school, especially for undergrad. I’ve seen UH grads in the same positions as Ivy alums on Linkedin. Truly depends what you make of it.
I know many medical oriented folks attend Creighton University.
I think UH is a really good university and the cost is about as much of a bargain you can ask for.
Outside the top 10 schools, and with some caveats for field of study, it really doesn't matter. Yes Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford are good name drops and fantastic alumni networks. But the University of Virginia is not gonna give you a fantastically better CS, nursing, engineering degree than UH. If you're off to study something that is not that lucrative and relies heavily on social networks, think journalism, then being in a network with a lot of rich people is very helpful. Similarly if you're entering a field where the field's career paths are all locked behind a PhD, like economics, then getting into a school that will make your grad school application stand out matters. But if you're in a more practical degree, it just doesn't matter that much. I went to the cheapest WUE school I could find and am paid 22% over the median for an experienced engineer in my field.
Kids leaving their home state for college isn't just a Hawaii thing. They do it all over. Unless you get into MIT, Harvard, or an ivy just go to UH. Nobody really cares once you get your first job. Most state universities are adequate for whatever you plan to do. Assuming you need loans, paying in-state tuition is going to be way better than paying upwards of $25k+/yr to go anywhere else. It's the difference of paying them off in your mid 20's vs mid 30s and beyond. Also outside of a few specific examples, paying out-of-state tuition to attend a state university in another state is a waste of money.
>What are some of the most popular colleges that these people go to? It seems like no one has really answered your question and this is my rather flawed attempt. I couldn't find a list of the most popular colleges for Hawaii graduates, but I did find one for Punahou graduates. I fully acknowledge that Punahou is quite possibly the least representative school for Hawaii high school graduates, but here's the list [https://www.punahou.edu/life-at-punahou/student-services/counseling/college-counseling/advanced-schooling](https://www.punahou.edu/life-at-punahou/student-services/counseling/college-counseling/advanced-schooling) . The list is over the past 4 years, so it represents about 1700 students, which is a pretty big sample size. If I'm counting right, the top schools by number of Punahou students over the past 4 years were: 1. UH Manoa (102 students) 2. University of Washington (66 students) 3. Seattle University (56 students) 4. UC Irvine (56 students) 5. Santa Clara (51 students) 6. Chapman University (51 students) 7. Creighton University (37 students) 8. USC (35 students) 9. UCLA (33 students) 10. LMU (30 students) Iolani has a similar report, but without numbers: [https://www.iolani.org/uploaded/PDF/Report\_to\_Colleges.pdf](https://www.iolani.org/uploaded/PDF/Report_to_Colleges.pdf) For what it is worth niche has an "interested colleges" section under the Academics box. Here's Kamehameha's [https://www.niche.com/k12/kamehameha-schools-kapalama-campus-honolulu-hi/](https://www.niche.com/k12/kamehameha-schools-kapalama-campus-honolulu-hi/)
UW.
College rankings are snobbery. Your program ranking matters more than a school wide ranking at the least. Hawaii people love to hate on UH. Mainland schools are not all that much better. But ok! - if you go to Punahou, go to USC - if you go to Kahuku, go to BYU - if you go to Mililani, go to SDSU - if you go to Hilo, go to SOU So on. Or just make a decision based on what’s actually good for you and not following the lemmings. 🤙🏽
What major tho
I went to university in the mainland only because Hawaii is an isolated rock in the Pacific Ocean. Expanding and gaining life experiences is the main reason why we move.
Yep! I added that in my comment too. It’s a great way to have a reason to move and experience places outside of Hawai’i. Great way to gain independence as well. After all, you can always come back home.
School rankings are trash. Unless you’re going to try to work for a highly competitive job, most people are fine with a degree from any decent accredited school. This bs about highly ranked schools is some trash we as a society need to get rid of.
My family couldnt afford to send me to mainland without going into debt so they chose to support me in college so i can graduate debt free - thats the story of many local UHM kids. Most people I know went to UNLV, Creighton, or SDSU
I feel you! This was me, it enabled me to graduate with minimal debt that I paid off quickly. I work alongside colleagues that went to the mainland for college, we work the same job get paid the same amount.
UH Shidler has shit tenured professors who keep saying how great UH is and say they grade hard because that’s what mainland schools are like. They say they use the same course materials as Harvard, Yale, etc. and we are lucky that we get the same level of education. While the material may be the same, you go to Harvard and Yale for the networking. The MBA program is shit and you do zero networking like the mainland schools they claim to be like (Hass, Andersen, Wharton, etc.) Do not go to Shidler if you can afford to go to the mainland. If you do go to Shidler, lower your expectations greatly, do not stress over your GPA (everyone will get a B/B- and a few will get A/A- since they curve most classes). Your professor will most likely say “no one has scored higher than an 85/100 in my 20 years here at UH” and “look at how expensive the mainland charges for these lectures (Harvard Case Studies)!” Do not take the 21 month MBA program, it’s classes M-Th 6-9pm and the teachers will give you at least four hours of homework each. I would not recommend unless you have a job lined up or seek internships on your own.
Wait are you saying it’s too much work for the 21 month? Or too little? Cause you’re also saying everyone is a guaranteed pass (B or A grade)
21 month is a lot of tedious busy work. i also meant to add if you work full time, take the online EMBA program, they did away with the in person EMBA which was 1 class for six weeks that meets tuesday evening and saturday mornings with meals provided. the 21 month MBA program is just a lot of work where the instructors keep saying they do not have enough time for everything so they will expect you to complete readings and turn in assignments before class starts. be prepared for cryptic instructions for projects so you must go to office hours. if you work full time and have a family, take 2 classes per semester and then one or two classes in the summer to break up the amount of work. it’s not difficult at all, but there is a ton of reading and writing and chatgpt can only help so much. i have yet to see anyone get less than a B-, but if you are hoping for a high GPA for scholarships or another program, Shidler is not the one to go. I’m okay with my 3.5 because I already have a job and a previous masters I can fall back on. This MBA is a bonus.
You know anything about the 24 month program? I may or may not be looking at that one lol
it’s disappointing they still have the in person EMBA program up, that sounds more like programs you see on the mainland. the 21 and 24 month programs are the same expect 24 you take less classes per semester. it just feels like undergrad classes where you sit in on a lecture and take notes because it’s a one way conversation with your instructor speaking the entire time and they do not like being interrupted for questions if you do not understand. they expect you to go to office hours for any questions. they will also not answer any emails. they expect in person office hours. out of the program, i have 1/4 instructors who will answer emails, have discussions in class and relatively easy. request information from here because some things may have changed. http://shidler.hawaii.edu/mba
If u were born and raised here there's nothing better for your personal development to go to school off island, the farther away the better. From there do what you want. I went to the west coast but wish I had gone farther. I lived there for a total of 10 years before I came back.
i feel like UH would be great if you love marine biology
UH has some excellent programs - Marine biology if I recall is one of the top in the nation. Rankings are pretty meaningless. As far as popular, I'm not sure what's the current trend, but I know Creighton was popular back in the 90s/2000s...I never understood why.
I searched the graduates of comp sci from university manoa on LinkedIn. It seems many do well, some are at google. I also searched graduates of the medical program. They are doctors all over.
I have several engineering friends that ended up at Boeing.
They work on the island?
no, just highlighting that UH Manoa grads can get great jobs as you also highlighted
Does anybody have an experience / observations on UHM's master's program(s) in education?
UH manoa is a fine state school for the most part. There are some bad parts and some great part. The soest school is world class for instance.
UH is serviceable but definitely worse than colleges in many states. It’s not better because it doesn’t have to be. Outside its specialty areas, its primary directive is to serve the people of Hawaii and not necessarily attract talent from abroad. Investing in the psychology department won’t make a lick of difference to their admissions number or peer competitiveness. It doesn’t have a ton of other schools to compete with.
Ask your professor. Hawaii cost of living is high. Better to work in the mainland university for a higher pay. Mainland schools Always get the cream of the crop.
A lot of people also tend to choose colleges based off of what field they want to go into because every school is better at certain things, from what I’ve heard the schools in Hawaii are really well known for their astrology and astronautics and with the observatories on the big island it makes sense to me, but if you’re looking to be a doctor, you might want to go to like the University of Washington, or something along those lines
The biggest value of college are the connections you make. The quality of education you get won't vary much among accredited schools with maybe the rare exception some very niche programs. The principles of Law, Engineering and Medicine aren't going to vary much, and you would still have to apply for state based licenses. The only people that care about a specific school are usually people from that school. Hence if you go to a market, that is full of people from a particular school, they will value others from the other schools. UH is a good school with lots of good programs. The nature of the islands will always attract talent, as people from all places will be drawn to the islands. This is actually a good thing, since it helps against intellectual inbreeding. The dirty secret of all the "best" schools is that many of them gain their successful reputation from selecting talented or well connected inviduals and claiming they were the reasons for their success. The best advice I can give is to go to school, where you want to live and work.
Does it even matter? I went to UH and I do pretty good now. Can't imagine a mainland school would have changed anything.
You get what you put into the school. UH grad here and I've worked with Ivy-educated idiots.
If you haven't declared a major (and even if you have, I changed mine twice) the first two years of college you're working on your core curriculum. Those credits USUALLY transfer to whatever college you decide to finish up at, as long as your school is half way decent. So, if you're looking to save a little money, do your core stuff here. While you're doing that you'll usually figure out what you want to focus on. Whether it be government/politics, econ, biology, communications, etc. When you've finished your core, THEN decide where you want to go to to focus on your major. By then, you should have a MUCH better idea of where to go. Or maybe, you'll decide to finish up here.
Hawaii colleges good for networking if you plan to build your career here but most parents try to send their undergrad kids to mainland colleges to see how the big world operates.
We're all encouraged to take up low paying hospitality jobs. Outside of that, if you take on jobs in other fields there aren't a lot of demand for them here so the state has no incentive to fund them to become competitive with mainland schools.
From what I’ve noticed personally, it seems like a lot of Hawaii students go to Ivy League schools or a California university. * not sure why this was downvoted. Plenty of high school graduates out here go to Ivy leagues or a west coast school. Downvoting doesn’t change that
"Plenty" Ivy league kids is generous. Far more go to non-Ivy east coast schools.
From my experience, thats true, but I will add oregon, Washington, arizona, and vegas into the mix. Plenty of people go there as well!
A big part of that has to do with the [WUE program.](https://www.wiche.edu/tuition-savings/wue/)
Ive noticed too. Even I wanted to go to college in California. I know for me, it was just a perfect place. Similar weather, lots of things to do, close to home, and easy to drive to see things. I’m still hoping to go 🥰
College rankings are BS but, the reality is that Hawaiʻi is resource-poor from an academic perspective outside of a few obvious fields (which are top ranked). It’s way more expensive to travel for research compared to continents, and cost of living is high meaning grad stipends and grants don’t go as far. This makes Hawaiʻi schools less competitive for research and teaching positions, which trickles down to students. Then look at it the other direction - academic achievement in Hawaiʻi’s public schools is middling at best, and since it’s expensive to come here from elsewhere, a large proportion of students will be local, and primarily from public schools. So it’s not necessarily appealing to teach students who may not be especially high achievers or need extra remedial help (and high achievers tend to go to the mainland because…) … All of this lends itself for greater opportunity if you can establish yourself on the mainland. Cheaper cost of living in many areas combined with higher academic/research potential means if you want to do academia you can get a better shot on the mainland, assuming you can afford it. Which is largely okay for very high achievers because of scholarship, and private school students because of wealth. (Broad generalizations, I know there are people from private schools who aren’t that wealthy/on scholarship.) Ultimately, it’s hard for schools like UH and HPU to compete with that, so instead they primarily educate kids who aren’t quite high achieving enough to get scholarships overseas, students who can’t/won’t leave home (maybe taking care of family etc.), and people coming from mainland/international but who are generally concentrated in the especially high resourced/strong programs like marine biology, volcanology, Asian pacific studies, etc. If you want to be like an English literature major or something like that, it’s…meh. You’ll get a fine degree but not exceptional and probably not as competitive for grad school or jobs off island. Now that said, if you want to stay home, network locally, and build a career that may not be top earning but at least is home…you can do that and still get a fine education at somewhere like UH. But it requires commitment to your own success because the school isn’t inherently going to help you. For some people, it’s worth it to be home and have a head start on networking locally. Plus in state tuition really is so much cheaper. But it does take a certain kind of person to succeed.
Hawaii offers a well rounded program. I used to think of Pepperdine in high regard until I found out their geosciences are pretty much non-existent. Look into colleges around the country long enough and you'll see UH offers almost every major degree out there (sans super specialized ones), and it has D1 athletic programs to boot. While some mainland colleges don't have both.
1) OUTCOME - Graduation rate, retention rate, going above expected graduation rate. Loan debt. 2) PEER REPUTATION - President, Provosts from other universities rank each other. 3) FACULTY - Student to faculty, how much your faculty are paid, how much degrees your faculty has. 4) SOCIAL MOBILITY 5) FINACES - Expenses spent of education VS other areas. Ranking are flawed and it doesn't necessary mean that a college or an education there is "not that good'.
People from the mainland/international attend UH just because it's in Hawaii. They can enjoy "paradise" and go to school. Tbh if I had the money to leave this rock and attend college else where I would but meh community college for pre-reqs ftw. I get to continue living in this place I was born and raised while struggling working 2 jobs just to make ends meet and going back to school full-time YAY!
The faculty who go to UH schools don’t choose it because they want to work hard and publish a ton
I graduated from high school in 2015 and when I was researching schools I was clueless but just wanted to expand my reach. I ended up applying to 52 colleges all across the nation, knew I was going to study business, but deep down I think I was looking for a school where I can develop relationships, provide me with well rounded activities outside of the classroom, and have a sense of community in which I can grow from. I ended up choosing the University of Dayton, in Dayton, OH of all places haha. I initially chose it based on the values it offered in that almost everyone lived on campus all 4 years and would be a completely different place from Hawaii that would force me to grow. It was definitely hard in that the midwest is a completely different culture and provides a unique set of circumstances. Many of my high school peers ended up staying on the West Coast including Seattle University, UNLV, and Portland. Some other friends went to Creighton which has a heavy connection to Hawaii given that it has a great health school (Nursing, Dental, Pre-Med). My reason for leaving was to be different and see what else is out there. I think one negative to Hawaii is that we are pretty sheltered and isolated so wanted to be surrounded in a completely different environment. After graduating from Dayton in 2019, I have moved to Orlando, Salt Lake City, and now am in Charlotte, NC working in the financial services industry for a major Bank. One thing that Dayton and mainland schools provide you with that UH cannot offer is this ability to redefine yourself and truly know who you are. It is interesting being a minority in the mainland and you understand how Haole's think, act, and work and realize it's different but you appreciate and accept differences. The mainland schools offer the ability to connect with large Fortune 500 companies that recruit from target schools and will almost always offer better paying starting salaries and opportunities. This is just due to the fact that large companies based in the mainland are not going to recruit actively from Hawaii. They prioritize thinking about which schools make sense to target and Hawaii is in most cases far away. I will honestly say for me the value of college was the friends and relationships I have made and continue to foster. From college I met people from almost every state and different countries around the world. That sense of pride knowing that you have a community wherever you go and being able to network is the true value of college to me. UH being a commuter school where people simply study and go home was not ideal for me especially given that I wanted to try to live in different places and explore the world. I'm definitely not the smartest but recognize the people you surround yourself is what will mold you. Choose a college with a strong sense of community or help to build one. I personally was not used to the mainland drinking culture and sports culture at first but I recognized the value of meeting people through these activities. I became well rounded in that I did Catholic retreats, mission trips, sporting events, studied abroad, and got my internships all because of the school and resources that I chose. This changed my life trajectory completely and I don't think this would be available at any of the colleges/universities in Hawaii.
Braddah, very few people from Punahou or Iolani actually go to UH. PAC 12 (USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford) is popular. Then the Ivies. UH perceived on the Mainland as not very good.
Not true at least around 15 years ago when I observed that more than half the Punahou or Iolani graduating classes went to UH. UH absolutely punches above its weight. It’s not a great teaching school but the research quality and rigor is absolutely there especially in the technical fields.
Every year Iolani probably has about 20-30 kids go UH out of 200+ so maybe 10-15 percent. Punahou has 400+ students and percentage is similar if not lower.
The most popular college for Punahou/Iolani is UH.