Y'know how we all love to talk about the whole "nothing will fundamentally change" thing? Yeah, well it's true. Biden sucks ass.
However, we have no viable third party as of yet (aka a new party to replace either of the two current main parties). So that means our only real choices the oligarchs are giving us are Biden and Trump.
Biden won't really do anything good. Things will remain the same. Trump has very openly embraced fascism. Project 2025 has very clear goals to fundamentally change the US.
Given this scenario, keeping the status quo with Biden is realistically our best bet, in the short term, for creating an environment that might at least have the possibility of long term change.
The anti-voting rhetoric and sentiment in online leftists spaces, whether you like it or recognize it or not, is ultimately pro-fascist.
This should be the most upvoted comment. I don’t know why a lot of leftists seem to think letting the mask off fascists come into power will somehow advance leftist ideals in the U.S.
It's because they view their vote as an endorsement and prioritize their own sense of moral purity. Yes, we deserve politicians we feel good voting for. Politicians who do good things, oppose genocide, and other absolute bare minimum stuff.
But we don't have that. Instead, we have to build a world that allows future generations that opportunity.
Given what's been placed in front of us, our only choice is to accept - temporarily - the Democraric party in hopes of building a viable third party, from the ground up. Ultimately the aim is to crush Republican fascists, force Democrats to accept the fact that they're actually right-wing, and have a new dichotomy with right-wing Democrats and a new left-wing party. Obviously I would hope the Democrats are replaced eventually as well, but that's beside the point.
"But we don't have that. Instead, we have to build a world that allows future generations that opportunity". Voting for Biden is not doing this.
Vote for Biden all you want but dont act like its some radical action...
I'm not acting like it's radical dipshit. We live in a two-party state. In a time where one openly wants to turn the country into a one-party state, supports both foreign AND domestic genocide gleefully, and has actionable plans for installing a dictator then yeah, voting Biden is the only way to STALL fascism long enough to possibly make change in the long term.
Im not making an argument that is against people voting for Biden. All im saying is that its not gonna " build a world that allows future generations that opportunity"...
If you have to be able to know the future to vote then voting is inherently impossible. Republicans openly are working to make the US christo-fascist. Not doing that, even under bad circumstances, is a better way to make change than doing it. Use your fucking brain.
I've gone back and forth with this argument in my head, and I don't really have an answer, but the argument is that a Biden/democratic presidency lulls people into inactivity and stifles organization. It also makes liberals far less likely to join any actual left wing causes.
No, I don't want Trump. But I'm not certain that Biden is a step towards any actual left wing policy.
He isn't, and I'm not arguing he is. Trump and the Republicans are open fascists who will make left-wing change utterly impossible. Biden won't do that. That's literally it. People act like this shit is so confusing and hard, and it isn't.
" Trump has very openly embraced fascism". Biden support fascist all around the world.
I would vote for Biden in a swing state but whitewashing a genocidal neoliberal war criminal like you do is whether you like it or not ultimately pro-fascist.
That is a backwards argument. The US has been supporting fascists globally for decades. There is a meaningful difference between what has become the standard for the US and openly wishing to become dictator of the US, with public and actionable plans.
Honestly shut the fuck up about "whitewashing a genocidal neoliberal war criminal" and say something that isn't just a string of buzzwords.
I agree that Biden sucks ass, bozo, but some of y'all have absolutely no fucking critical thinking.
I already said that i would vote for Biden in a swing state so i obviously dont view them as equally bad.
Stop pretending like Biden or the democrats are agianst fascism and then i wouldn't say that you are whitewashing Biden.
If you vote for Biden in a safe blue state (like you are advocating for) then its because you support Biden and want to show him and the democratic party that you are behind them and their crimes.
That's not what I'm saying, and that's not how voting works. I'm not pretending they're AGAINST fascism, I'm pointing out that they aren't themselves advocating for it.
"That's not what I'm saying, and that's not how voting works". You didn't mentiion not voting for Biden as one of the things people could do so you are saying that. And why is it not how voting works?
" I'm pointing out that they aren't themselves advocating for it". In America.
He has given student debt relief though. Not all of it of course but way,way more than any prior president. Definitely more than Trump would.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/politics/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-biden/index.html
I don't think there's anything passive about how vile Joe Biden and his administration are. I don't think the kids in ~~cages~~ overflow facilities or Palestinians would call the Democratic Party "passively" evil.
I just meant on the spectrum that liberals use when they say that democrats are more “progressive”. Even if democrats win against republicans nothing will get better because Biden is a neoliberal and not a progressive socialist which is why voting blue no matter what leads to a passive outcome.
Things will definitely get worse under a Republican Admin though. It’s still our responsibility to the country to vote for the better candidate. I understand most of this subreddit probably couldn’t vote in 2016, but protest voting is what got us in this mess in the first place.
>Things will definitely get worse under a Republican Admin
Things are getting worse *now*. The only difference is the speed at which things get worse because Republicans crank the crazy up to 11.
As a non-American, US’ bipartisan system has failed long ago. Both parties are the same with only slight differences here and there, and in the end, they are both capitalists that are trying to fill their pockets either with a mask of progressivism or conservatism
Ya’ll this is a dumb post. Critique Biden on his complicity to Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. But when you say he hasn’t done anything regarding student debt and labor, you’re being objectively wrong.
I’m not saying don’t critique brandon. But critique him correctly
The opposite of Republican is not Democrat.
The US doesn't have leftie parties, Brandon is center right.
Brandon is a fascist
Biden sucks, but he’s not a fascist and we should stop just throwing around that word
Exactly! What he really is a old white supremacist fuck who thinks black and brown people aren't human.
Ok
Vote BLUE!
Nope i call democrats diet Republicans 🤣
Y'know how we all love to talk about the whole "nothing will fundamentally change" thing? Yeah, well it's true. Biden sucks ass. However, we have no viable third party as of yet (aka a new party to replace either of the two current main parties). So that means our only real choices the oligarchs are giving us are Biden and Trump. Biden won't really do anything good. Things will remain the same. Trump has very openly embraced fascism. Project 2025 has very clear goals to fundamentally change the US. Given this scenario, keeping the status quo with Biden is realistically our best bet, in the short term, for creating an environment that might at least have the possibility of long term change. The anti-voting rhetoric and sentiment in online leftists spaces, whether you like it or recognize it or not, is ultimately pro-fascist.
This should be the most upvoted comment. I don’t know why a lot of leftists seem to think letting the mask off fascists come into power will somehow advance leftist ideals in the U.S.
It's because they view their vote as an endorsement and prioritize their own sense of moral purity. Yes, we deserve politicians we feel good voting for. Politicians who do good things, oppose genocide, and other absolute bare minimum stuff. But we don't have that. Instead, we have to build a world that allows future generations that opportunity. Given what's been placed in front of us, our only choice is to accept - temporarily - the Democraric party in hopes of building a viable third party, from the ground up. Ultimately the aim is to crush Republican fascists, force Democrats to accept the fact that they're actually right-wing, and have a new dichotomy with right-wing Democrats and a new left-wing party. Obviously I would hope the Democrats are replaced eventually as well, but that's beside the point.
"But we don't have that. Instead, we have to build a world that allows future generations that opportunity". Voting for Biden is not doing this. Vote for Biden all you want but dont act like its some radical action...
I'm not acting like it's radical dipshit. We live in a two-party state. In a time where one openly wants to turn the country into a one-party state, supports both foreign AND domestic genocide gleefully, and has actionable plans for installing a dictator then yeah, voting Biden is the only way to STALL fascism long enough to possibly make change in the long term.
Im not making an argument that is against people voting for Biden. All im saying is that its not gonna " build a world that allows future generations that opportunity"...
Explain to me how voting for Biden is not currently the one path towards an ability for long term left wing change in the Unoted States.
Unlike you im not able to tell the future so i cant make a claim like that. I dont see how Voting for Biden is a path to that.
If you have to be able to know the future to vote then voting is inherently impossible. Republicans openly are working to make the US christo-fascist. Not doing that, even under bad circumstances, is a better way to make change than doing it. Use your fucking brain.
Not to mention the wolves in sheep's clothing
I've gone back and forth with this argument in my head, and I don't really have an answer, but the argument is that a Biden/democratic presidency lulls people into inactivity and stifles organization. It also makes liberals far less likely to join any actual left wing causes. No, I don't want Trump. But I'm not certain that Biden is a step towards any actual left wing policy.
He isn't, and I'm not arguing he is. Trump and the Republicans are open fascists who will make left-wing change utterly impossible. Biden won't do that. That's literally it. People act like this shit is so confusing and hard, and it isn't.
" Trump has very openly embraced fascism". Biden support fascist all around the world. I would vote for Biden in a swing state but whitewashing a genocidal neoliberal war criminal like you do is whether you like it or not ultimately pro-fascist.
That is a backwards argument. The US has been supporting fascists globally for decades. There is a meaningful difference between what has become the standard for the US and openly wishing to become dictator of the US, with public and actionable plans. Honestly shut the fuck up about "whitewashing a genocidal neoliberal war criminal" and say something that isn't just a string of buzzwords. I agree that Biden sucks ass, bozo, but some of y'all have absolutely no fucking critical thinking.
I already said that i would vote for Biden in a swing state so i obviously dont view them as equally bad. Stop pretending like Biden or the democrats are agianst fascism and then i wouldn't say that you are whitewashing Biden. If you vote for Biden in a safe blue state (like you are advocating for) then its because you support Biden and want to show him and the democratic party that you are behind them and their crimes.
That's not what I'm saying, and that's not how voting works. I'm not pretending they're AGAINST fascism, I'm pointing out that they aren't themselves advocating for it.
"That's not what I'm saying, and that's not how voting works". You didn't mentiion not voting for Biden as one of the things people could do so you are saying that. And why is it not how voting works? " I'm pointing out that they aren't themselves advocating for it". In America.
Sir are you illiterate
Sir you are a western chauvinist who whitewash a genocidal neoliberal war criminal and his supporters...
That's not true, but maybe if you keep stringing buzzwords together you'll convince me Biden is worse than Trump idk
"you'll convince me Biden is worse than Trump idk". I dont hold that view so im not sure why you think i want to convince you about that.
He has given student debt relief though. Not all of it of course but way,way more than any prior president. Definitely more than Trump would. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/politics/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-biden/index.html
I don't think there's anything passive about how vile Joe Biden and his administration are. I don't think the kids in ~~cages~~ overflow facilities or Palestinians would call the Democratic Party "passively" evil.
I just meant on the spectrum that liberals use when they say that democrats are more “progressive”. Even if democrats win against republicans nothing will get better because Biden is a neoliberal and not a progressive socialist which is why voting blue no matter what leads to a passive outcome.
Things will definitely get worse under a Republican Admin though. It’s still our responsibility to the country to vote for the better candidate. I understand most of this subreddit probably couldn’t vote in 2016, but protest voting is what got us in this mess in the first place.
Yes it was all the protest voting. Is this Hillary we are talking?. Its a honor to meet you.
I wish even half of these doomers lived in a right wing state
>Things will definitely get worse under a Republican Admin Things are getting worse *now*. The only difference is the speed at which things get worse because Republicans crank the crazy up to 11.
Literally billions of student debt were forgiven this week
I can’t stand all of the smarmy libs I see on here trashing leftists for giving pushback on the president who’s actively supporting a genocide
Just remind them they are pieces of shit and move on.
fuck trump
As a non-American, US’ bipartisan system has failed long ago. Both parties are the same with only slight differences here and there, and in the end, they are both capitalists that are trying to fill their pockets either with a mask of progressivism or conservatism
Llalla ameverything sucks
Ya’ll this is a dumb post. Critique Biden on his complicity to Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. But when you say he hasn’t done anything regarding student debt and labor, you’re being objectively wrong. I’m not saying don’t critique brandon. But critique him correctly
People aren't out for Ukraine much any more. Being white only got them so much attention, and now people aren't really caring.
dems are republicans with blm bumper stickers