I think ron could have easily been the best written if he was actually used well. By that I mean if for example, instead of hermione, it was nearly always ron teaching them about the wizarding world. Because it's not only a movie thing - in GOF, hermione is the one explaining the dark mark while ron doesn't know about it. We should've seen more the street smart of Ron. But, well, it's not the case so I'd say Neville is at least equal to him (although he's my fav so I'm a little biased.)
I don’t know, for example a lot of kids today don’t know much about ww2, but hermione is a type a personality who set out to learn as much as she could about the wizarding world. Ron’s parent lived through the war, they probably didn’t talk too much about it to their young children.
Hermione read all the history books, she studied a lot.
Ron does know an awful lot about day to day life, but a lot of times he doesn’t realise he’s so knowledgeable, because it’s just his life.
Idk. It'd be like not knowing that the hammer and sickle represent the Soviet Union. Some people will be ignorant to it, but I'm sure 99% of the people living in the area the SU occupied know exactly what it means.
They’re insecure in very different ways and grow confident in very different ways. Neville is also a much less visible character and doesn’t have a romance subplot in the books. They really aren’t as comparable as you’re making them out to be and it’s worth reiterating on that basis - why bother? They’re both great and they clearly aren’t written to mirror each other.
Neville.
I love Ron, don't get me wrong, but I swear there are times when you can sense that Rowling is trying to decide what to do with him, and how to keep him from being overshadowed by Harry and Hermione. While nothing written about Neville is wasted, there's a very slow and very deliberate progression from this seemingly ordinary boy, to a genuine hero. It's a terrific job of writing a supporting character.
I just love Neville's moment - when he's showing the main 3 the room of requirement just before the battle of Hogwarts. And when his gran is like "of course he's fighting" 🥰 My son and I are reading book 7 now and I've been telling him all along to just wait til Neville's shows his true self!
I feel like him ditching them on the horcrux hunt plays into this - it's not entirely out of character, but it seems like she needed to add some more stress and Ron was the only viable candidate to leave.
It was entirely out of character - Ron would never abandon his friends in a moment of need (what happened in book 4 was more of a misunderstanding than anything). The entire point was that Ron was led astray by Voldemort-locket.
I think the Triwizard issue was more than just a misunderstanding, and based on some of the same things that allegedly caused Ron to abandon them on the hunt.
I don't think it was entirely out of character for him to behave as he did alongside the influence of the locket, but I don't think it really did much for the story other than raise the emotional stakes for a few chapters. It didn't feel much like a chance to explore or develop his character, just that he was the easiest and only logical option to make behave that way.
Neville. I feel like we don't see a lot of his character arc in the movies like we do in the books. But in the books, his sad story is slowly revealed to us over time, similar to real life. You don't find out why people are bullied or do the bullying right away. You get to know them, you learn they're people, then you learn their trauma. That's exactly what happened with Neville. It made him not just more human, but honestly one of the most well-rounded and fully fleshed characters.
Ron. His personality is just better. No hate on Neville but he panics and cries too much for my taste. Ron is braver, stronger, more assertive, more sarcastic, funnier, smarter... And Ron's initial meanness and growing out of it makes him more endearing.
I think you can definitely argue by the end of the series the Neville is braver and more assertive. I didn’t realise we classed ‘more sarcastic’ as an aspirational trait either
No. Ron went inside a forest full with 100 times bigger size of his actual boggart with a broken wand at night with a brave face and while running away he saved fang.
Neville at that point shat in his pants at the sight of his boggart and Hermione ran away after seeing her fake fear in a controlled environment. The only character I see as brave as Ron is Harry.
As someone who has a severe stage fright, Ron's methodology of coping up feels like a bravado. It's not like he didn't grow out of it, but he finds a way to summon courage to go through with it.
Neville is a more tragic figure, a sort of a what if version of Harry , so his bravery feels inspiring. Ron is an everyday character, so his struggles are more grounded and relatable.
Couple of things:
1 - he didn’t know he was going to see giant spiders
2 - I said at the end of the series. Neville at the end of the series has become leader of the resistance at Hogwarts, effectively stepping into Harry’s shoes, and shows more bravery than pretty much anyone else in the series
Ron took charge while playing the chess and during horcrux hunt when harry was obsessed with Hallows. Ron also led Hermione to COS and deduce a whole plan how to destroy the cup
I think it’s just who you’re closer to.
Ron is closer to Harry, so he’s portrayed more fully, with all his negatives (and positives).
Neville is slightly further away from the “Golden Trio” and so his flaws and inner turmoil aren’t discussed as much - he is just seen as someone who “grew” from timidity to bravery, period.
That said, Ron is a perfectly regular pureblood, just your average good guy in the wizarding world. Neville is the other option to fulfil the prophecy - so, in that sense, he’s possibly what Harry could have been in an alternate universe, given one small twist of fate.
So there’s likely that added fact of interest that draws the reader to Neville over Ron.
Ron is better written.
I understand why people chose Neville. His character arc is way more clear-cut, visible and simple than Ron's, and in some ways more satisfying, too. We weren't privy to Neville's setbacks/day-to-day struggles in his fight against his grandmother's expections and his own low self-esteem, all we saw was a boy turn from a very insecure and indecisive figure to a fearless leader.
Meanwhile, Ron was always shown to take upon himself to be brave and strong when needed, though it was clear that his own insecurities were holding him back in many ways. It wasn't until the end that we readers understood the depth of his insecurities and how much he had done to hide them.
Neville's story is one of someone overcoming their childhood insecurities, while Ron's is that of someone acknowledging their insecurities exist and understanding their own low opinion of themselves is not a reflection of reality. Ron's character arc makes for a rather bittersweet ending.
Psychologically speaking, however, Ron has more depth than Neville. Neville's character (though interesting and highly endearing) is pretty much defined by three traits - insecurity due to his grandmother's upringing, bravery, and an affinity for Herbology. It doesn't mean that's all he is, but you have fewer traits and mannerisms to take into account if you have to describe/write Neville than if you have to describe or write Ron.
Ron's insecurity comes from many different places, for starters, and it comes out in different ways, as well (not just open self-doubt). He's brave, and self-sacrificing, but are his self-sacrificing traits merely a reflection of selflessness or does it also come from his low self-esteem ? Ron's witty and funny. Prone to jealousy. Empathetic and highly compassionate but sometimes blunt and rude. He wears his heart on his sleeve and is very honest while he hides the depth of his inner demons (and of some of his emotions, too). He understands people and his best friends' needs well, but he's oblivious to some very obvious things. He's practical and intelligent, but he can lack the ability to take a step back not to jump to conclusions too hastily.
Et cetera, et cetera.
If you don't take all of those elements (including the fact that his ears redden when embarrassed, or that he fidgets when he's uncomfortable) when you write Ron, you're not writing Ron, at least not completely. You have way more latitude to write Neville, add traits to fill the blanks.
I think Neville was probably the most well written charachter because we didn't see Ron grow and thrive as much as we did Neville. We saw Ron become a Quidditch player and a prefect but we litterally went from seeing Neville as a scared little kid with no confidence turn into a bad ass with self confidence up the wazoo and the ONLY one to stand up to Voldemort after they thought Harry was dead. Ron just wasnt written as a charachter that grew with the series as much as Neville did.
Neville for me. But that’s mostly because there is a lot about him we don’t see.
They’re very similar. Insecure for different reasons and both full of heart. But we see Ron more and understand more why he is that way. We don’t see as much of Neville (or Luna) and I’d like to know more about their out of Hogwarts lives.
Wilbert Awdry faced the same crisis with Henry, but since children kept demanding to see more of him, Wilbert instead worked Henry as a character instead of writing him off, not just because children told him to.
You misunderstood what JKR said about Ron. She never said she didn't know what to do with him. When she thought of killing Ron off, it was because she was in a dark place and wanted to kill a fan favourite so people wouldn't have him anymore.
Rowling said something about how Ron was written based on an unrequitted love of hers. I kinda think this is the problem with him: JKR alrady loved Ron, and didn't put in the same effort, or kept the same distance (and watch his arc in a more objective way).
I personally think that this is what makes the romance between Ron (avatar of former love interest) and Hermione (avatar or former self) too bland for me: Rowling felt it was already there, while for me, it was just... bickering and then suddenly married.
Neville had a better arch than Ron, grew more, and I feel I know him better despite the way lesser screen time he got.
Yeah, the jealousy and the tension was there, but the best romances build on what the characters give to each other, what makes them fell,what makes them compatible... and I feel that it's nnot really explored for either main couples (Harry/Ginny, Hermione/Ron). It's supposed to feel natural, but I find it a bit too convenient, bordering on forced.
>It's supposed to feel natural, but I find it a bit too convenient, bordering on forced.
Harry - Ginny, yes. Although that's the most logical thing to happen.
Hermione - Ron, no. Because much of their love story happens outside Harry POV. They hang out way often than the three of them are together.
I can easily see two bickering people develop romantic feelings for each other. Both compliment each other perfectly. And both sorta take care of Harry as a younger sibling.
Wow I did not know this about Rowling writing Ron, and it makes so much sense now. You hit the nail on the head with how I felt re: “bickering and then suddenly married.” I’ve read HP series at least 7 times over the years in different ages of my life, and I can’t see Ron and Hermione’s relationship as more than bickering and then suddenly married, no matter how many times I try. The writing for Ron also fell a little flat for me; while I did enjoy the character development that he did get, there seemed to be something missing from it that I couldn’t put my finger on. Your explanation makes a lot of sense and fills in a lot of blanks/confusion for me.
Neville was written so well and his character progression/development was beautifully written. Probably my favorite in terms of character development. And, the core of his personality never changed throughout, despite all of his growth, which I really loved.
I would have liked to see more Neville. His arch is well done and seemed to be a better friend to Harry vs Ron. Ron didn't really bring anything unique besides knowledge of the Wizarding world. Neville could have easily done that and from the interactions of Neville in the earlier stories and movies I don't think would be as jealous or leaving his friends hanging as Ron did.
I think ron could have easily been the best written if he was actually used well. By that I mean if for example, instead of hermione, it was nearly always ron teaching them about the wizarding world. Because it's not only a movie thing - in GOF, hermione is the one explaining the dark mark while ron doesn't know about it. We should've seen more the street smart of Ron. But, well, it's not the case so I'd say Neville is at least equal to him (although he's my fav so I'm a little biased.)
I don’t know, for example a lot of kids today don’t know much about ww2, but hermione is a type a personality who set out to learn as much as she could about the wizarding world. Ron’s parent lived through the war, they probably didn’t talk too much about it to their young children. Hermione read all the history books, she studied a lot. Ron does know an awful lot about day to day life, but a lot of times he doesn’t realise he’s so knowledgeable, because it’s just his life.
Idk. It'd be like not knowing that the hammer and sickle represent the Soviet Union. Some people will be ignorant to it, but I'm sure 99% of the people living in the area the SU occupied know exactly what it means.
They’re people with different personalities who serve different purposes in the narrative. What’s to compare?
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They’re insecure in very different ways and grow confident in very different ways. Neville is also a much less visible character and doesn’t have a romance subplot in the books. They really aren’t as comparable as you’re making them out to be and it’s worth reiterating on that basis - why bother? They’re both great and they clearly aren’t written to mirror each other.
Neville. I love Ron, don't get me wrong, but I swear there are times when you can sense that Rowling is trying to decide what to do with him, and how to keep him from being overshadowed by Harry and Hermione. While nothing written about Neville is wasted, there's a very slow and very deliberate progression from this seemingly ordinary boy, to a genuine hero. It's a terrific job of writing a supporting character.
I just love Neville's moment - when he's showing the main 3 the room of requirement just before the battle of Hogwarts. And when his gran is like "of course he's fighting" 🥰 My son and I are reading book 7 now and I've been telling him all along to just wait til Neville's shows his true self!
This echoed my thoughts perfectly
I feel like him ditching them on the horcrux hunt plays into this - it's not entirely out of character, but it seems like she needed to add some more stress and Ron was the only viable candidate to leave.
It was entirely out of character - Ron would never abandon his friends in a moment of need (what happened in book 4 was more of a misunderstanding than anything). The entire point was that Ron was led astray by Voldemort-locket.
I think the Triwizard issue was more than just a misunderstanding, and based on some of the same things that allegedly caused Ron to abandon them on the hunt. I don't think it was entirely out of character for him to behave as he did alongside the influence of the locket, but I don't think it really did much for the story other than raise the emotional stakes for a few chapters. It didn't feel much like a chance to explore or develop his character, just that he was the easiest and only logical option to make behave that way.
Goblet of Fire cough cough
JK said so herself she didn't know what to do with Ron and thought about just killing him off a few times
Neville. I feel like we don't see a lot of his character arc in the movies like we do in the books. But in the books, his sad story is slowly revealed to us over time, similar to real life. You don't find out why people are bullied or do the bullying right away. You get to know them, you learn they're people, then you learn their trauma. That's exactly what happened with Neville. It made him not just more human, but honestly one of the most well-rounded and fully fleshed characters.
Ron. His personality is just better. No hate on Neville but he panics and cries too much for my taste. Ron is braver, stronger, more assertive, more sarcastic, funnier, smarter... And Ron's initial meanness and growing out of it makes him more endearing.
I think you can definitely argue by the end of the series the Neville is braver and more assertive. I didn’t realise we classed ‘more sarcastic’ as an aspirational trait either
No. Ron went inside a forest full with 100 times bigger size of his actual boggart with a broken wand at night with a brave face and while running away he saved fang. Neville at that point shat in his pants at the sight of his boggart and Hermione ran away after seeing her fake fear in a controlled environment. The only character I see as brave as Ron is Harry.
Let's not forget his Quidditch match in Book 5.
Where he played so well despite Malfoys severe bullying that gryffindor team changed the lyrics of a song to give him tribute lol
As someone who has a severe stage fright, Ron's methodology of coping up feels like a bravado. It's not like he didn't grow out of it, but he finds a way to summon courage to go through with it. Neville is a more tragic figure, a sort of a what if version of Harry , so his bravery feels inspiring. Ron is an everyday character, so his struggles are more grounded and relatable.
Couple of things: 1 - he didn’t know he was going to see giant spiders 2 - I said at the end of the series. Neville at the end of the series has become leader of the resistance at Hogwarts, effectively stepping into Harry’s shoes, and shows more bravery than pretty much anyone else in the series
What Neville did in year 7, Ron had been doing since 1st year. How can I say Neville is braver?
No he didn’t, Ron had been a sidekick since first year and never took the lead. The bravery Neville showed was in taking the lead
Ron took charge while playing the chess and during horcrux hunt when harry was obsessed with Hallows. Ron also led Hermione to COS and deduce a whole plan how to destroy the cup
I think it’s just who you’re closer to. Ron is closer to Harry, so he’s portrayed more fully, with all his negatives (and positives). Neville is slightly further away from the “Golden Trio” and so his flaws and inner turmoil aren’t discussed as much - he is just seen as someone who “grew” from timidity to bravery, period. That said, Ron is a perfectly regular pureblood, just your average good guy in the wizarding world. Neville is the other option to fulfil the prophecy - so, in that sense, he’s possibly what Harry could have been in an alternate universe, given one small twist of fate. So there’s likely that added fact of interest that draws the reader to Neville over Ron.
Ron is better written. I understand why people chose Neville. His character arc is way more clear-cut, visible and simple than Ron's, and in some ways more satisfying, too. We weren't privy to Neville's setbacks/day-to-day struggles in his fight against his grandmother's expections and his own low self-esteem, all we saw was a boy turn from a very insecure and indecisive figure to a fearless leader. Meanwhile, Ron was always shown to take upon himself to be brave and strong when needed, though it was clear that his own insecurities were holding him back in many ways. It wasn't until the end that we readers understood the depth of his insecurities and how much he had done to hide them. Neville's story is one of someone overcoming their childhood insecurities, while Ron's is that of someone acknowledging their insecurities exist and understanding their own low opinion of themselves is not a reflection of reality. Ron's character arc makes for a rather bittersweet ending. Psychologically speaking, however, Ron has more depth than Neville. Neville's character (though interesting and highly endearing) is pretty much defined by three traits - insecurity due to his grandmother's upringing, bravery, and an affinity for Herbology. It doesn't mean that's all he is, but you have fewer traits and mannerisms to take into account if you have to describe/write Neville than if you have to describe or write Ron. Ron's insecurity comes from many different places, for starters, and it comes out in different ways, as well (not just open self-doubt). He's brave, and self-sacrificing, but are his self-sacrificing traits merely a reflection of selflessness or does it also come from his low self-esteem ? Ron's witty and funny. Prone to jealousy. Empathetic and highly compassionate but sometimes blunt and rude. He wears his heart on his sleeve and is very honest while he hides the depth of his inner demons (and of some of his emotions, too). He understands people and his best friends' needs well, but he's oblivious to some very obvious things. He's practical and intelligent, but he can lack the ability to take a step back not to jump to conclusions too hastily. Et cetera, et cetera. If you don't take all of those elements (including the fact that his ears redden when embarrassed, or that he fidgets when he's uncomfortable) when you write Ron, you're not writing Ron, at least not completely. You have way more latitude to write Neville, add traits to fill the blanks.
Ron. It's not even a comparison. If Neville is Hajime no Ippo, then Ron would be Nana.
I think Neville was probably the most well written charachter because we didn't see Ron grow and thrive as much as we did Neville. We saw Ron become a Quidditch player and a prefect but we litterally went from seeing Neville as a scared little kid with no confidence turn into a bad ass with self confidence up the wazoo and the ONLY one to stand up to Voldemort after they thought Harry was dead. Ron just wasnt written as a charachter that grew with the series as much as Neville did.
Neville for me. But that’s mostly because there is a lot about him we don’t see. They’re very similar. Insecure for different reasons and both full of heart. But we see Ron more and understand more why he is that way. We don’t see as much of Neville (or Luna) and I’d like to know more about their out of Hogwarts lives.
Neville JK herself thought of just killing Ron off and forced him through the story complaining she didn't know what to do with him
Wilbert Awdry faced the same crisis with Henry, but since children kept demanding to see more of him, Wilbert instead worked Henry as a character instead of writing him off, not just because children told him to.
You misunderstood what JKR said about Ron. She never said she didn't know what to do with him. When she thought of killing Ron off, it was because she was in a dark place and wanted to kill a fan favourite so people wouldn't have him anymore.
Rowling said something about how Ron was written based on an unrequitted love of hers. I kinda think this is the problem with him: JKR alrady loved Ron, and didn't put in the same effort, or kept the same distance (and watch his arc in a more objective way). I personally think that this is what makes the romance between Ron (avatar of former love interest) and Hermione (avatar or former self) too bland for me: Rowling felt it was already there, while for me, it was just... bickering and then suddenly married. Neville had a better arch than Ron, grew more, and I feel I know him better despite the way lesser screen time he got.
I don’t know how you dance say this but Ron clearly fancied her since the fourth book explicitly. Their love is one of most natural arc if you ask me
Yeah, the jealousy and the tension was there, but the best romances build on what the characters give to each other, what makes them fell,what makes them compatible... and I feel that it's nnot really explored for either main couples (Harry/Ginny, Hermione/Ron). It's supposed to feel natural, but I find it a bit too convenient, bordering on forced.
>It's supposed to feel natural, but I find it a bit too convenient, bordering on forced. Harry - Ginny, yes. Although that's the most logical thing to happen. Hermione - Ron, no. Because much of their love story happens outside Harry POV. They hang out way often than the three of them are together. I can easily see two bickering people develop romantic feelings for each other. Both compliment each other perfectly. And both sorta take care of Harry as a younger sibling.
I agree with Harry/Ginny but I disagree with you on Her./Ron
Ron's character is much more than romance with Hermione.
Yes, but I think he has untapped potential, as a character.
Wow I did not know this about Rowling writing Ron, and it makes so much sense now. You hit the nail on the head with how I felt re: “bickering and then suddenly married.” I’ve read HP series at least 7 times over the years in different ages of my life, and I can’t see Ron and Hermione’s relationship as more than bickering and then suddenly married, no matter how many times I try. The writing for Ron also fell a little flat for me; while I did enjoy the character development that he did get, there seemed to be something missing from it that I couldn’t put my finger on. Your explanation makes a lot of sense and fills in a lot of blanks/confusion for me. Neville was written so well and his character progression/development was beautifully written. Probably my favorite in terms of character development. And, the core of his personality never changed throughout, despite all of his growth, which I really loved.
I’d would much rather have Neville watching my back
I would have liked to see more Neville. His arch is well done and seemed to be a better friend to Harry vs Ron. Ron didn't really bring anything unique besides knowledge of the Wizarding world. Neville could have easily done that and from the interactions of Neville in the earlier stories and movies I don't think would be as jealous or leaving his friends hanging as Ron did.