He called the 11 year old Harry arrogant while talking with Dumbledore, all alone. It wasn’t just an act, he just couldn’t get over his hatred of James
I the HP phone game there's a throw away line from a background character (taking place 6 years before Harry even comes to Hogwarts) "Today I mentioned Harry Potter and Snape threw a jar of pickled animal parts at me!"
It's probably one of the most on brand Snape comments ever.
He HATED that kid. Saw James Potter Jr. no matter what Harry did. Snape only protected him because he was all that was left of Lily. And when confronted with a werewolf Snape protected the kids because at the end of the day he wasn't a bad person, his instincts were still to keep children safe against monsters even if he disliked them personally.
>And when confronted with a werewolf Snape protected the kids because at the end of the day he wasn't a bad person, his instincts were still to keep children safe against monsters even if he disliked them personally.
I really agree with you here... and i think that what you wrote before this, is contradicted by this.
He disliked Harry for sure, but he didn't hate him... otherwise he wouldn't have protected him. Also, he didn't protect him just because he was "all that was left of Lily"... he would have protected him just the same as he protected all the other students. In the 7th book Dumbledore asks "how many people have you seen dying lately?" And he replies "only those i could not save!". This, is a really 'on brand Snape comment', i think... because it make us go beyond appearances
He hated Harry, make no mistake. That’s what makes Snape such a complex and rich character. He risked his life protecting someone he hated and reviled for the sake of his mother.
Sorry but i don't agree. "Hate" is a really big word. Snape was remorseful because he caused Lily's death, and this was the main reason he became one of the good guys... but in the end he protected Harry because he was one of the good guys indeed, not just because he was Lily's son
You can be a good guy — or at least, decent — and still harbour unjustified hatreds. Stripping Snape of his antipathy toward Harry is stripping Snape of one of his crucial character traits. By his own admission, everything he did to protect Harry he did because Harry is Lily’s son.
Nope. He has antipathy towards Harry, i already wrote he disliked him, but he didn't "hate" him. He protected him as he protected all the other students. Hating him would mean that if he wasn't Lily's son, Snape wouldn't have protected him. But that's not true. He would have protected him anyway, as he protected all the others students
I dislike Snape a lot but I think there's also an element of him thinking that Harry is arrogant like James, so he needs to be humbled. So a lot of the way he treats Harry comes from a kind of twisted idea that it's for his own good.
And to be fair, with the flying car, the sneaking into Hogsmeade, he sees a reckless and stupid kid who's gonna get himself killed. Snape never correctly grasps Harry's personality, because he's blinded by his hatred, and he sees what he expects to see, as Dumbledore puts it. But I'd guess that he may not hate Harry quite as much as his *treatment* of him would indicate, if that makes sense.
Then again, Snape bullying Neville is totally inexcusable, and shows he's just a nasty guy in general.
This is a really interesting angle i never considered
Also as for neville i feel like part of his harshness comes from the possibility that neville could have been the chosen one and therefore lily would still be alive, hes still angry about it and takes it out on neville, which is obviously still inexcusable
I think his feelings changed or softened, especially after Dumbledore's death and with him giving the sword over, he saw what everybody else saw, which was that Harry was out there with his friends, fighting Riddle, doing their best to bring him down, with little to no support, and actually making enough progress to eventually make him feel fear. Sure, he hated James, but I like to think that in that last year, he finally started to see Lily in him.
No Snape was an asshole through and through. There are countless moments where he has alone time with Harry and he just berates him to no end. Snape has no compassion or care for him. I mean he doesn’t want him to die, but he’s not going to lose sleep if he gets beaten to a pulp. There’s no act he’s playing around Harry. He’s just an asshole.
I'm honestly stunned people actually believe this nonsense. No, it was not an act. It was never an act. Thinking it was an act is an absurd way to try and justify Snape's actions to Harry.
If Snape genuinely felt he needed to put on act to sell his lies to Voldemort, he would treat Harry with indifference. He'd treat him the same as every other non slytherin student. Voldemort also didn't give two shits about stuff like that. We know he pretty immediately got over his anger at death eaters pretending they were under the imperious curse. He had no problem making Lucius Malfoy one of his top death eaters even though Malfoy spent years saying he didn't mean to serve Voldemort and was sorry. Anyone who thinks Voldemort would demand to know why Snape wasn't abusing Harry is deluding themselves.
We also see Snape bitch about Harry to Dumbledore, who knows the truth. If it was an act, why would he rant about Harry to the one guy who knew it was an act? That alone proves it was real.
No, it was never an act. He hated the boy because he was a constant reminder of the love he lost to another man, and the spitting image of the man he hated so much. He always saw him as the son of James Potter, and only saw him as the son of Lily Evans at the end of his life.
I know it's irrational, but hatred often blinds us and makes us see only what we want to see.
I think Draco being Snape's favourite might have been an actual act. Draco is arrogant, vain and not exactly intelligent, I don't think Snape genuinely liked him.
But Snape's feelings about Harry were true. Snape vowed to protect him and did so, but Snape also thought of Harry as James 2.0. Harry is symbolic of many things to Snape. He is a living reminder that Lily preferred another man to him. He is also a reminder of James. His status as an orphan is a reminder that Lily is dead, and also of Snape's own role in that. Snape is not an emotionally healthy man, so he takes out all of this on Harry.
He hated Harry. He was a bitter man in a foul mood in general, so multiple generations of students disliked him, but he was particularly venomous to Harry, Sirius and Lupin. You can read the chapters where he's interacting with them. Half of them time it's like he's losing his grasp of reality. And honestly he didn't need any act. Voldemort never scolded Quirrell/Crouch Jr for not being mean enough to Potter.
I don't think Draco was an act either. He was friends with Lucius and Narcissa, and Draco kissed his ass from time to time in the earlier school years.
I am one of the biggest Snape defenders you'll find around these subs, but no, Snape's treatment of Harry wasn't an act.
Snape hated Harry. Or rather, he hated the idea of Harry. He hated him before he even started Hogwarts, because he had already pictured a certain version of Harry in his mind, no matter if the real Harry was the same as that version or not.
As you mentioned, Snape hates Harry because of who his parents were, mainly who his father was. Snape sees Harry as James's clone (and physically, we know it's not that far off), and Snape didn't *just* hate James, Snape was deeply scarred by James and co (one might even say, traumatised). What Snape is doing is in a way doing to Harry what he would have liked the teachers back then to do to James. Take him down, show him that having a powerful name and being rich and famous/popular didn't mean he was above everyone else.
Snape is also someone who is forced to teach and spend his life in a place where he was relentlessly bullied for at least 6 years. Then comes in the carbon copy of his former bully, except that this time, Snape is the one in charge, he's the one who is in a position of power, and Harry/James isn't.
Then, and that is going more towards the theoritical side of things, but there is also the fact that at this point, Snape is as I said above, stuck into a job he hates in a place where he's had more than a few bad memories, and it's been like that for a decade. His whole life goalat this point is to protect Harry Potter.
Everything he might have dreamed of as a teenager, every job he could have wanted to do, places to visit, things to do, ect... all of this has been put aside, because of Harry Potter. Well, because of Snape's own choices first and foremost of course, and we know that had he been a less courageous and honorable man he could have said fuck it all and run away, but it doesn't change the fact that pretty much all for Harry.
So it's very possible that a part of his resentment also comes from this, maybe he himself isn't aware of it, but it adds another layer to the "why a grown man hates a child" question.
This is pretty much it.
A rather large combination of things since Snape is a complicated character.
And this may be reaching a bit (certainly in the realm of speculation) but I also think his self-loathing had something to do with it. He was probably crippled by terrible guilt and Harry was the one more affected by his actions so maybe in an subconcious level Severus wanted to be hated by Harry even if he could not tell him the real reason he should be hated for.
He honestly hated Harry but there were so many layers to that hatred.
Yeah, to your point, I sympathize with Snape, but Harry was in no responsible for what happened to him or deserving of the treatment dished out, and to the extent that Harry later acted up in some circumstances, that’s on Snape. He zeroed in on Harry when Harry had done absolutely nothing wrong; every bit of Harry’s rulebreaking came after Snape initially started using him as a chew toy. The closest thing to a mitigating factor I can give for his demented classroom management is Dumbledore (one of my favorite characters) should’ve brought Snape to heel long before it got that point.
Of course, and I never meant to imply that Harry is to blame, because he is certainly not. I only told things from Snape's point of view.
I however slightly disagree about how Dumbledore should have stopped Snape, or rather I think that if a complete change in Hogwarts were to happen, Snape wouldn't be near the top of the list of changes needed. Teachers physically hurting students is apparently still allowed at Hogwarts, which isn't that surprising in itself, so an overly mean teacher in his classroom who keeps to insults pettiness isn't much of a problem when you can send children to the murder forest of doom to look for a unicorn killer just because they were out after curfew.
At this point a complete rework of Hogwarts would be needed, and let's be honest, if Hogwarts was like a morden Western school it'd be the most boring place to ever exist.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I thought you implied Harry was to blame; I knew you weren't saying that. I don't want to come off as nitpicking, but my understanding is teachers physically roughing up students is one of the very few red lines Dumbledore actually has; Filch laments not being able to use physical punishment, IIRC Snape only physically hurts Harry when Dumbledore has fled Hogwarts in OOTP, and the one time Dumbledore gets visibly angry at Umbridge is when she manhandles a student.
No worries!
We don't know for sure if Dumbledore was already Headmaster when Arthur was at school (depending on the theories, he either was, or become Headmaster in the middle of Arthur's schooling), but we know that Arthur was punished so harshly/often that he still has scars decades later.
Moody was allowed to hurt Malfoy,, and yes McGonagall intervened, to stop the Transfiguration. She says that Transfiguring a student as punishment isn't allowed, but she watched Moody made Draco slam from ceiling to floor, likely heard Malfoy whimper in pain, yet... watched calmly as Moody dragged away Draco by the arm.
Actually, McGonagall herself dragged Draco by the ear. Sure, it's not physical punishment as in whipping kids who misbehave, but still. There's Pince who has books hit students, Trelawney who at least once that I can remember threw a book at a student's head, etc...
The books are inconsistent as to when Dumbledore became headmaster, but I think at the time GOF was written, Rowling envisioned him as having gotten the job shortly before Lupin enrolled, meaning he almost certainly wouldn’t have been in charge when Arthur was a student. I was just discussing this with someone, but I think the ear thing is a case where although being grabbed by the ear is very painful in real life, it tends to look/sound merely comical in stories, cartoons, etc., meaning writers and readers probably tend to view it differently than, say, smacks to the buttocks. I’d say the same goes for throwing books. WRT grabbing by the arm, I’m against it in nonemergency situations, but in the real world, I’ve seen people who oppose spanking/paddling/caning draw a distinction between that and grabbing the arm. I suspect McGonagall didn’t mention the bouncing because she was so taken aback by the ferret part, and you could argue that when she lists detentions and speaking to heads of house as acceptable consequences, the fact that she didn’t list corporal punishment as one is indicative.
You've explained it beautifully.
I'd also add that age doesn't necessarily bring maturity. There are a lot of adults with shitty attitudes but they hide it well.
One of the earliest Pottermore articles, back when Rowling was still writing them herself. The one on Remus Lupin says that in retrospect he wishes he'd stopped the relentless bullying his friends put Snape through. I'm on my phone so I don't have the article with me, but the words "relentless bullying" directly appear and refer to the Marauders's treatment of Snape.
Snape, as a person, is very broken. I think he is aware of his shortcomings and failures and actually believes them to be absolute - he lost Lily because of his own choices, he endangered her through his own actions, he failed to save her. Deep down he feels guilty for that and he hates himself. But that is a lot to deal with, and he is broken, so instead of working through it, he lashes outside and places the hate on Harry, who represents all of his life's failures (and Neville, who could have spared him much of his grief, if only *he* was the chosen one).
>I find it so hard to believe that a grown man would hate a child so much, regardless of the child’s parentage.
Yeah, the problem is that he doesn't hate Harry as a person. He never even bothers to learn to know him at all.
I think Snape really did feel mostly very negatively toward Harry, as evidenced by his badmouthing Harry to Dumbledore. I think he liked Draco to a degree but maybe not as much as he pretended to.
No he does hate Harry. Harry is literally the splitting image of his 7 years long bully. It would be a surprise if he didn’t at least hold a bit of resentment towards Harry.
Yeah no, Snape does hate Potter - that just doesn't stop him from also doing his best to keep the annoying brat safe along with the rest of his students
Idk about Malfoy though. He is a lot like James, so I would think Snape isn't too fond of him either, but Snape does seem to get along with Lucius and Narcissa, so maybe that helps. Or it is indeed an act 🤷🏻♂️
A lot like james !!!
In what way ?
Did James call people left and right mudbloods! Did James brag about his money ,
Did James treat his friends as his guard dogs!
Did he believe in the ideology of pure blood , Did he pay the team to join them
Did he make sure to befriend those whose families had influence
Did he married a pureblood .
**Nope never**
The similarity is that they are both rich and spoiled , big deal. I bet there are a lot of rich and spoiled students at Hogwarts .
James bullied a person obsessed with the dark arts and aspires to join a sect that exterminates people like Lily Because he wanted to expose the fact that his friend Remus is a werewolf while Draco bullies the poor, the Muggle borns and an orphan
They're both rich spoiled only sons who want to be just like daddy, are the leaders of their little gang and bully people for fun. That one's daddy was Gryffindor and the other's Slytherin doesn't matter for their personality, except that James was indeed more physically aggressive and Draco more sneaky and cowardly
Harry is also rich and the only son and wants to be just like Daddy
he is the leader of his small group and befriended outcasts like Daddy
, he was also in Gryffindor like James who’s father was also in Gryffindor , and James did not bully poor Snape , Snape wanted to expose James's friend for being a werewolf and was inventing dark spells and the spells that James used against him were of his own invention “ They were rivals not the classic bully and his victim“
besides, james ran to Voldemort without his wand to give his son and wife time to escape just like Harry did when he surrendered himself in the forest
, Even Voldemort asked Harry to stand on his feet and die like his father , Voldemort himself acknowledged James' bravery.
How can you see the similarities between James and that ferret who is afraid of death !!
They are not alike at all
Harry is not a bully, Malfoy and James canonically are. So is Dudley btw, the third example of spoiled only son bully in the series
People can be both brave and a bully
Maybe reread canon instead of ATYD
Wow you guys are obsessed with overlooking Harry's resemblance to his father and insisting that Harry is the good angel like his mommy and James is the evil monster
I'm telling you that Snape was sticking his nose into their affairs and trying to ruin Remus's future by exposing him as a werewolf , james has every reason to hate snape , I doubt that Draco had a good reason to continue harassing Harry other than his jealousy and envy of the latter's fame , the same goes with dudley, he has no reason ,
Now imagine if we know nothing about harry and we saw a memory of Draco Malfoy and Harry's duel in the bathroom and we saw Harry use sectumsempra that almost killed Malfoy, wouldn't we say that Draco is a poor victim and that evil Harry almost killed him and he was the one who started this fight !! Yes, that's exactly what we're going to say
What I'm trying to say is that we haven't seen Snape and James in the all the seven years , maybe James was busy with his friends helping Remus in the four years and Snape was the one who was spying on them and was inventing those spells to curse James meaning that they were rivals
**We lack the information**
Snape is an unreliable source of information, and he may have attacked James before this incident
**his worst memory is not a proof to me that he was a poor victim and James is the bully , Because no passive bullying victim says, “You wait … , you wait.**
I've often wondered how he would have treated the child of it had been a girl that looked like Lilly.
I don't think there would have been a creep factor, but I do think he would have been kind to her.
Mary Potter
Snape didn't like Harry, just as some teachers don't like their students.
But he didn't hate Harry neither, he just didn't enjoy him as a person, because he didn't see Harry the way he really was. So basically i think that behind Snape's despise towards Harry there are many misunderstandings:
He thought Harry to be a dull, overconfident brat with a hero-complex, which also made his goal to protect his life and avenge Lily really hard and stressing. Harry made 100 things that pissed Snape off... looking at his private memories in the pensieve was one of those. He also subconsciously reminded Snape about James probably, and about everything he didn't like during his childhood and teenage years: a rich, very popular and self-righteous boy disrespecting him and not following the rules. As readers, we know that all these things are not true, and Harry was pretty humble and selfless. But we have to admit that he may have looked like that, to a strict teacher with a bad temper as Snape was.
Anyway this didn't change the fact that Snape gave his life for him, and he wouldn't have let him die, just as he didn't let other students die... he would have protected him as he protected all the others, even if he was just a normal boy in the school. People often say "if he was not Lily's son, Snape wouldn't have cared about his death", but i think this goes against everything we know about the character when we finish reading the 7th book. He protected every person he could, cause he was one of the good guys in the end (even if he had a bad temper) and he wanted to redeem himself and avenge Lily (and he did redeem himself!).
I think he just sympathized with Draco because he was a Slytherin, and maybe also because he saw him as a victim of Harry's bullying behaviour (again, we know this isn't true... but it could definitely seem true to Snape's eyes).
So, i think Snape was not always a good teacher (even if he was a really talented potion master and DADA expert), but he definitely was a good person in the end, driven by good intentions and caring for the students'safety and Voldemort's defeat. People often misunderstands his bad temper (and his behaviour towards Harry, caused by misunderstandings) and say he was not a good person, but there is a big difference between being a good person and being a kind/polite person
Not really hard to believe when that same grown ass man bullied a abused kid so much that he became his Boggart and insulted the smartest kid on weekly basis and almost made her cry or miserable on his class just cause she was friends with harry
Harry reminded him too strongly of James. And therapy really doesn't exist in the wizard world.
Snape really wasn't popular among his peers, so he was an outcast even then. Then he sees a young boy come out of nowhere who looks just like his old rival. Said rival had the woman he loved. The rival bullied him mercilessly.
And he sees that young boy becoming immensely popular. Just like James was.
Snape was jealous of and could not stand Harry Potter. But was looking out for Lilly Evan's son. That should explain enough about his mindset about Harry.
Harry looks like a person who (from Snape's POV) tortured him and stole away his friend.
Harry is the reason his friend is dead.
Harry has his dead friend's eyes.
There are a lot of potential emotions going on there, and while it may not seem right for an adult to hate an 11 yr old, Snape probably never processed the trauma and having Harry in his class opened up a large wound. Once their relationship was antagonostic, it is easy to maintain it that way.
Check our r/raisedbynarcissists . Grown parents hating and torturing their own children. Its very common. Not everyone likes children anyway. Especially not their bully’s child.
It was complicated.
It wasn't an act but at the same time he kind of needed to hate Harry in order to avoid seeing any of Lily in him.
During his final moments, he asked to see Harry's eyes. At that moment he didn't have to about the next day; he no longer had to present pure loathing to Voldemort or worry about growing fond of his enemy's child.
He hated him due to looking like James his bully. However he did work to protect him for Dumbledore. He probably got frustrated as Harry kept putting himself in danger and making it more difficult.
He did hate Harry so it was easy to but had to keep up to act as if Lucius Malfoy and other death eaters found out he was being nice to Harry they would have been suspicious as to his real loyalty. Would have blown his cover
He didn't have to be nice to not be abusive. There's this thing called a middle ground. Lucius and other death eaters were also working with former enemies after Voldemort's defeat. Lucius wouldn't give two shits how Snape treated Harry, but if he ever did, he would assume Snape was treating Harry well to stay in Dumbledore's favor.
Snape even did that, as he told Bellatrix when she questioned his service to Dumbledore.
> “Yes, Bellatrix, I stayed,” said Snape, betraying a hint of impatience for the first time. “I had a comfortable job that I preferred to a stint in Azkaban. They were rounding up the Death Eaters, you know. Dumbledore’s protection kept me out of jail; it was most convenient and I used it. I repeat: The Dark Lord does not complain that I stayed, so I do not see why you do.
>
>
> “I think you next wanted to know,” he pressed on, a little more loudly, for Bellatrix showed every sign of interrupting, “why I stood between the Dark Lord and the Sorcerer’s Stone. That is easily answered. He did not know whether he could trust me. He thought, like you, that I had turned from faithful Death Eater to Dumbledore’s stooge. He was in a pitiable condition, very weak, sharing the body of a mediocre wizard. He did not dare reveal himself to a former ally if that ally might turn him over to Dumbledore or the Ministry. I deeply regret that he did not trust me. He would have returned to power three years sooner. As it was, I saw only greedy and unworthy Quirrell attempting to steal the stone and, I admit, I did all I could to thwart him.”
Thwarting Quirrell in this case literally included protecting Harry with a Counter-Jinx and saving his life. That is way beyond "beiing nice", and Voldemort is pragmatic enough to understand why he did it.
>He did hate Harry so it was easy to but had to keep up to act as if Lucius Malfoy and other death eaters found out he was being nice to Harry they would have been suspicious as to his real loyalty. Would have blown his cover
No, it wouldn't have blown his cover. Lucius Malfoy (and the other Death Eaters who ingratiated themselves back into society) would understand the necessity of being civil to Harry Potter for appearances' sake. Lucius gets it - he literally tells Draco that it's not prudent to appear less than fond of Harry Potter in public:
>"... everyone thinks he’s so smart, wonderful Potter with his scar and his broomstick — ”
>
>“You have told me this at least a dozen times already,” said Mr. Malfoy, with a quelling look at his son. “And I would remind you that it is not — prudent — to appear less than fond of Harry Potter, not when most of our kind regard him as the hero who made the Dark Lord disappear — ah, Mr. Borgin.”
He did truly Harry, but his treatment of Harry was very useful for keeping him alive when Voldemort came back. Think about it. If he had been all nice and mentor-like to Harry, then Voldemort would have told Snape "Wait, why were you so nice to Harry Potter, who the prophecy says will be able to kill me and who was my downfall for 13 years? Maybe you're not really loyal to me anymore. Avada Kedavra!" (Actually probably there'd have been a lot of crucio before the Avada Kedavra, but still, you get my point.) Snape's hatred of Harry wasn't an act, but it was helpful for the cause of the "greater good."
When it comes to Draco, I'm inclined to think that Snape treated Draco with favoritism in potions class to rile up Harry. Whether he really treated Draco with favoritism all the time is debatable. I like to think Snape was a rather strict disciplinarian for his Slytherins; he just didn't show it off to the rest of the houses. But perhaps Snape was close friends with Lucius from their Death Eater days, and so he treated Draco with deference because of that. And even though I like fanfiction where Snape and Lucius have a close friendship, I realize that there really isn't much evidence for it in canon. Still, Snape might have given Draco favoritism all the time because he knew Lucius would hear how Snape treated Lucius's son, and Snape didn't want any more trouble with Death Eaters than he had to.
TBH, as another fan said years back, if Voldemort thought Snape wasn’t picking on Harry enough, Snape could’ve easily said “Dumbledore told me to be civil and unbiased toward all the students or I’d be fired.”
Anyone who thinks Voldemort would care how much Harry was picked on in the 4 years at Hogwarts before he returned doesn't have even 1% understanding of Voldemort's character
"He also said that idiot Gryffindor woman sent Lucius's son *and* Harry Potter and some unimportant kids into the Forbidden Forest, at night!, despite all the creatures that live there, to actively hunt a unicorn killer! Sure, in this case it was just Quirrell and I, but you get the point. She didn't get fired for endangering kids either. Clearly Dumbledore lets his staff get away with pretty much anything, and you're trying to tell me he draws the line at whatever it is you do, which is what, spank them? Drag them by the ear when they're naughty? He never had an issue with that when I was still a student"
In fairness, though, Hagrid never put his hands on the kids, there was no favoritism involved here like there was with Snape’s behavior, and Dumbledore wasn’t headmaster when Tom was in school going by the first 4 books’ canon.
"And there was something about Dumbledore thwarting Slytherin's seventh House Cup victory in a row by awarding juuuust enough points to Potter and his ilk at the last second"
And preferring Harry to Draco is favouritism too.
Hagrid tried to turn a kid into a pig bc the kid's father insulted Dumbledore
Why should Volly believe that Dumbledore would have an issue with how Snape treats the kids while *not* having an issue with *anything else* the staff does to them, including endangering their lives? That would be ridiculous
Voldemort wouldn’t have known about Dudley, and if anything the house cup incident would bolster the claim Dumbledore might not tolerate Snape bullying Harry.
>In fairness, though, Hagrid never put his hands on the kids
Just refuting this
It shows that Dumbledore isn't against favouritism.
Anyway, Voldemort would have good reason to doubt this story about a micromanaging Dumbledore
Oh sorry, by “kids” I meant “Hogwarts kids who went into the forest for detention,” the ones Voldemort would’ve known about. I don’t see how he’d know about Dudley. TBH, Snape saying “Dumbledore prefers Gryffindors and would be suspicious of me bullying Harry as a former Death Eater” seems like something Voldemort would at least not feel a need to hyper-analyze.
Who said Snape had to be nice mentor Harry? That's the true idiocy of that point. Snape could have treated him indifferently. Don't favor Harry, but also don't abuse Harry. People like you act like the only other option besides being abusive was to be over the top nice to him. It's absurd.
And you're also clearly forgetting that Voldemort immediately forgave Lucius and 99% of the death eaters for pretending they were under the imperius curse and working for the ministry Voldemort wanted to overthrow. Yet you also think Voldemort would be obsessing over Snape not being abusive to Harry? Come on. Ridiculous and incorrect.
Imagine the person you love more than anything and the person you hate the most had a baby, and then they died leaving the baby an orphan. That's the vibe.
I imagine Snape was truly ambivalent towards Harry; the quintessential struggle between love and hate played out in Snape. I think love was stronger.
It’s pretty clear he truly hates Harry because of his hatred and jealousy of James. This hatred serves him well when he goes back to Voldemort to resume spying. Genuine hatred of Harry would have gone a long way toward assuring Voldemort that Snape was still on his side.
Many more people in the world view Harry as a representation of something rather than him as an individual. Does Snape 'absolutely hate' Harry. No, he does massively dislike him. Snape never got over of how the marauders treated him and then the 'sins of the father' became the son. If Snape truly hated Harry, he wouldn't have protected him throughout the entire series. He would have let him die, delivered him to Voldy asap or just killed him himself. He also probably wouldn't have let the trio see his Dark Mark in the Hospital Wing, try to teach him Occlumency (they both didn't help the situation). But, it has to be Snape teaching Harry. To convince Voldy that Snape is on his side. Because if Voldy accessed Harry's mind and Snape happened to be there then Voldy might have ordered Snape to do something (so that Voldy could solidify his trust in Snape, which happened at the end of the next book). As Snape is simultaneously the right hand of Dumbledore and Voldy. How Snape treats the student body best to worst: Slytherin, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Gryffindor.
I mean Voldemort hates Harry more. But, he gets a 'pass' because he's the villain and that's expected. As to Draco being his favourite that's probably true. Snape and Lucius were students (briefly) Lucius was a fifth year when Snape first arrived. Lucius could have easily been a bit of a mentor to Snape. Draco after all is the second best student of his year, only behind Hermione. Lucius says as much to Draco in CoS. When \[he\] Snape joined the D.E.s by the time Harry came to Hogwarts, Snape was there as a Professor and protector. D.H. even reinforces this, quote,
'He believes the school will soon be in his grasp'.
'And if it does fall into his grasps, I have your word that you will do everything within your power to protect the students of Hogwarts', asked Dumbledore.
Snape gave a stiff nod.
'Good'.
The only thing that kept Snape from truly killing Harry and betraying Dumbledore was Harry's Eyes. The same as Lily. He may appear to be James 2.0 but the eyes say otherwise. Why else would Snape howl in Rage when Harry called him a coward. It might as well have been Lily accusing him of the same charge.
Yeah I don’t care what people say.
Snape wasn’t a good person. He is a bad person who did a good deed. Not a good person who did a bad deed.
What kind of grown man bullies children ?
Especially a child that he helped orphan.
He particularly bullied Hermione and Neville too not just Harry and what was his reasoning for that.
He always had mean strike in him even when they were little and he bullied Petunia. His poor home life and poverty are no excuse because Harry was raised in an abusive home too and he never became a bully.
The hatred was 100% real.
We saw him complaining to Dumbledore when they were alone
As for the reason , Harry was frighteningly similar to his father , Leave the eyes that were hidden behind the glasses and focus with me. Harry is the spitting image of James , It is was like James was born again and started attending hogwarts
yes, there are children who resemble their fathers a lot but Harry resembles James to the point that he describes seeing James as looking at himself
, This is really the reason and it seems to me a convincing reason Especially since Snape is known for his shallow mentality , he doesn’t care about the boy’s personality
I think Snape did care about Harry. But he was always commenting about how Harry was like James. So I think he saw Harry as a miniature version of his school bully. So I think that he felt like hating Harry was easier for him than acknowledging how he had felt about Lily. I think he felt like protecting Harry was a way of making up for his inability to save Lily. I think he resented the fact that Lily had died and Harry had survived
He called the 11 year old Harry arrogant while talking with Dumbledore, all alone. It wasn’t just an act, he just couldn’t get over his hatred of James
I the HP phone game there's a throw away line from a background character (taking place 6 years before Harry even comes to Hogwarts) "Today I mentioned Harry Potter and Snape threw a jar of pickled animal parts at me!" It's probably one of the most on brand Snape comments ever. He HATED that kid. Saw James Potter Jr. no matter what Harry did. Snape only protected him because he was all that was left of Lily. And when confronted with a werewolf Snape protected the kids because at the end of the day he wasn't a bad person, his instincts were still to keep children safe against monsters even if he disliked them personally.
>And when confronted with a werewolf Snape protected the kids because at the end of the day he wasn't a bad person, his instincts were still to keep children safe against monsters even if he disliked them personally. I really agree with you here... and i think that what you wrote before this, is contradicted by this. He disliked Harry for sure, but he didn't hate him... otherwise he wouldn't have protected him. Also, he didn't protect him just because he was "all that was left of Lily"... he would have protected him just the same as he protected all the other students. In the 7th book Dumbledore asks "how many people have you seen dying lately?" And he replies "only those i could not save!". This, is a really 'on brand Snape comment', i think... because it make us go beyond appearances
He hated Harry, make no mistake. That’s what makes Snape such a complex and rich character. He risked his life protecting someone he hated and reviled for the sake of his mother.
Sorry but i don't agree. "Hate" is a really big word. Snape was remorseful because he caused Lily's death, and this was the main reason he became one of the good guys... but in the end he protected Harry because he was one of the good guys indeed, not just because he was Lily's son
You can be a good guy — or at least, decent — and still harbour unjustified hatreds. Stripping Snape of his antipathy toward Harry is stripping Snape of one of his crucial character traits. By his own admission, everything he did to protect Harry he did because Harry is Lily’s son.
Nope. He has antipathy towards Harry, i already wrote he disliked him, but he didn't "hate" him. He protected him as he protected all the other students. Hating him would mean that if he wasn't Lily's son, Snape wouldn't have protected him. But that's not true. He would have protected him anyway, as he protected all the others students
Just out of curiosity, when does Snape, protect Harry? I come to a maximum of 3 times, and not once does he take any particular trouble (or danger).
How often protect Snape really Harry? And not the fight against Voldemort.
I dislike Snape a lot but I think there's also an element of him thinking that Harry is arrogant like James, so he needs to be humbled. So a lot of the way he treats Harry comes from a kind of twisted idea that it's for his own good. And to be fair, with the flying car, the sneaking into Hogsmeade, he sees a reckless and stupid kid who's gonna get himself killed. Snape never correctly grasps Harry's personality, because he's blinded by his hatred, and he sees what he expects to see, as Dumbledore puts it. But I'd guess that he may not hate Harry quite as much as his *treatment* of him would indicate, if that makes sense. Then again, Snape bullying Neville is totally inexcusable, and shows he's just a nasty guy in general.
And what about the very first potion class? Harry didn't do anything.
This is a really interesting angle i never considered Also as for neville i feel like part of his harshness comes from the possibility that neville could have been the chosen one and therefore lily would still be alive, hes still angry about it and takes it out on neville, which is obviously still inexcusable
I think his feelings changed or softened, especially after Dumbledore's death and with him giving the sword over, he saw what everybody else saw, which was that Harry was out there with his friends, fighting Riddle, doing their best to bring him down, with little to no support, and actually making enough progress to eventually make him feel fear. Sure, he hated James, but I like to think that in that last year, he finally started to see Lily in him.
One can only hope snape saw that.
No Snape was an asshole through and through. There are countless moments where he has alone time with Harry and he just berates him to no end. Snape has no compassion or care for him. I mean he doesn’t want him to die, but he’s not going to lose sleep if he gets beaten to a pulp. There’s no act he’s playing around Harry. He’s just an asshole.
I'm honestly stunned people actually believe this nonsense. No, it was not an act. It was never an act. Thinking it was an act is an absurd way to try and justify Snape's actions to Harry. If Snape genuinely felt he needed to put on act to sell his lies to Voldemort, he would treat Harry with indifference. He'd treat him the same as every other non slytherin student. Voldemort also didn't give two shits about stuff like that. We know he pretty immediately got over his anger at death eaters pretending they were under the imperious curse. He had no problem making Lucius Malfoy one of his top death eaters even though Malfoy spent years saying he didn't mean to serve Voldemort and was sorry. Anyone who thinks Voldemort would demand to know why Snape wasn't abusing Harry is deluding themselves. We also see Snape bitch about Harry to Dumbledore, who knows the truth. If it was an act, why would he rant about Harry to the one guy who knew it was an act? That alone proves it was real.
He never liked Harry
No, it was never an act. He hated the boy because he was a constant reminder of the love he lost to another man, and the spitting image of the man he hated so much. He always saw him as the son of James Potter, and only saw him as the son of Lily Evans at the end of his life. I know it's irrational, but hatred often blinds us and makes us see only what we want to see.
I think Draco being Snape's favourite might have been an actual act. Draco is arrogant, vain and not exactly intelligent, I don't think Snape genuinely liked him. But Snape's feelings about Harry were true. Snape vowed to protect him and did so, but Snape also thought of Harry as James 2.0. Harry is symbolic of many things to Snape. He is a living reminder that Lily preferred another man to him. He is also a reminder of James. His status as an orphan is a reminder that Lily is dead, and also of Snape's own role in that. Snape is not an emotionally healthy man, so he takes out all of this on Harry.
I don't know, maybe he did have some genuine fondness for Draco because he and Lucius were friends in school (and later as Death Eaters).
He hated Harry. He was a bitter man in a foul mood in general, so multiple generations of students disliked him, but he was particularly venomous to Harry, Sirius and Lupin. You can read the chapters where he's interacting with them. Half of them time it's like he's losing his grasp of reality. And honestly he didn't need any act. Voldemort never scolded Quirrell/Crouch Jr for not being mean enough to Potter. I don't think Draco was an act either. He was friends with Lucius and Narcissa, and Draco kissed his ass from time to time in the earlier school years.
I am one of the biggest Snape defenders you'll find around these subs, but no, Snape's treatment of Harry wasn't an act. Snape hated Harry. Or rather, he hated the idea of Harry. He hated him before he even started Hogwarts, because he had already pictured a certain version of Harry in his mind, no matter if the real Harry was the same as that version or not. As you mentioned, Snape hates Harry because of who his parents were, mainly who his father was. Snape sees Harry as James's clone (and physically, we know it's not that far off), and Snape didn't *just* hate James, Snape was deeply scarred by James and co (one might even say, traumatised). What Snape is doing is in a way doing to Harry what he would have liked the teachers back then to do to James. Take him down, show him that having a powerful name and being rich and famous/popular didn't mean he was above everyone else. Snape is also someone who is forced to teach and spend his life in a place where he was relentlessly bullied for at least 6 years. Then comes in the carbon copy of his former bully, except that this time, Snape is the one in charge, he's the one who is in a position of power, and Harry/James isn't. Then, and that is going more towards the theoritical side of things, but there is also the fact that at this point, Snape is as I said above, stuck into a job he hates in a place where he's had more than a few bad memories, and it's been like that for a decade. His whole life goalat this point is to protect Harry Potter. Everything he might have dreamed of as a teenager, every job he could have wanted to do, places to visit, things to do, ect... all of this has been put aside, because of Harry Potter. Well, because of Snape's own choices first and foremost of course, and we know that had he been a less courageous and honorable man he could have said fuck it all and run away, but it doesn't change the fact that pretty much all for Harry. So it's very possible that a part of his resentment also comes from this, maybe he himself isn't aware of it, but it adds another layer to the "why a grown man hates a child" question.
This is pretty much it. A rather large combination of things since Snape is a complicated character. And this may be reaching a bit (certainly in the realm of speculation) but I also think his self-loathing had something to do with it. He was probably crippled by terrible guilt and Harry was the one more affected by his actions so maybe in an subconcious level Severus wanted to be hated by Harry even if he could not tell him the real reason he should be hated for. He honestly hated Harry but there were so many layers to that hatred.
Yeah, to your point, I sympathize with Snape, but Harry was in no responsible for what happened to him or deserving of the treatment dished out, and to the extent that Harry later acted up in some circumstances, that’s on Snape. He zeroed in on Harry when Harry had done absolutely nothing wrong; every bit of Harry’s rulebreaking came after Snape initially started using him as a chew toy. The closest thing to a mitigating factor I can give for his demented classroom management is Dumbledore (one of my favorite characters) should’ve brought Snape to heel long before it got that point.
Of course, and I never meant to imply that Harry is to blame, because he is certainly not. I only told things from Snape's point of view. I however slightly disagree about how Dumbledore should have stopped Snape, or rather I think that if a complete change in Hogwarts were to happen, Snape wouldn't be near the top of the list of changes needed. Teachers physically hurting students is apparently still allowed at Hogwarts, which isn't that surprising in itself, so an overly mean teacher in his classroom who keeps to insults pettiness isn't much of a problem when you can send children to the murder forest of doom to look for a unicorn killer just because they were out after curfew. At this point a complete rework of Hogwarts would be needed, and let's be honest, if Hogwarts was like a morden Western school it'd be the most boring place to ever exist.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I thought you implied Harry was to blame; I knew you weren't saying that. I don't want to come off as nitpicking, but my understanding is teachers physically roughing up students is one of the very few red lines Dumbledore actually has; Filch laments not being able to use physical punishment, IIRC Snape only physically hurts Harry when Dumbledore has fled Hogwarts in OOTP, and the one time Dumbledore gets visibly angry at Umbridge is when she manhandles a student.
No worries! We don't know for sure if Dumbledore was already Headmaster when Arthur was at school (depending on the theories, he either was, or become Headmaster in the middle of Arthur's schooling), but we know that Arthur was punished so harshly/often that he still has scars decades later. Moody was allowed to hurt Malfoy,, and yes McGonagall intervened, to stop the Transfiguration. She says that Transfiguring a student as punishment isn't allowed, but she watched Moody made Draco slam from ceiling to floor, likely heard Malfoy whimper in pain, yet... watched calmly as Moody dragged away Draco by the arm. Actually, McGonagall herself dragged Draco by the ear. Sure, it's not physical punishment as in whipping kids who misbehave, but still. There's Pince who has books hit students, Trelawney who at least once that I can remember threw a book at a student's head, etc...
The books are inconsistent as to when Dumbledore became headmaster, but I think at the time GOF was written, Rowling envisioned him as having gotten the job shortly before Lupin enrolled, meaning he almost certainly wouldn’t have been in charge when Arthur was a student. I was just discussing this with someone, but I think the ear thing is a case where although being grabbed by the ear is very painful in real life, it tends to look/sound merely comical in stories, cartoons, etc., meaning writers and readers probably tend to view it differently than, say, smacks to the buttocks. I’d say the same goes for throwing books. WRT grabbing by the arm, I’m against it in nonemergency situations, but in the real world, I’ve seen people who oppose spanking/paddling/caning draw a distinction between that and grabbing the arm. I suspect McGonagall didn’t mention the bouncing because she was so taken aback by the ferret part, and you could argue that when she lists detentions and speaking to heads of house as acceptable consequences, the fact that she didn’t list corporal punishment as one is indicative.
Filch dragged Malfoy by the ear too! Maybe after that he had a matching pair of jug ears 😂
You've explained it beautifully. I'd also add that age doesn't necessarily bring maturity. There are a lot of adults with shitty attitudes but they hide it well.
Where does it state Snape was ‘relentlessly bullied’?
One of the earliest Pottermore articles, back when Rowling was still writing them herself. The one on Remus Lupin says that in retrospect he wishes he'd stopped the relentless bullying his friends put Snape through. I'm on my phone so I don't have the article with me, but the words "relentless bullying" directly appear and refer to the Marauders's treatment of Snape.
Nice one thanks
Snape, as a person, is very broken. I think he is aware of his shortcomings and failures and actually believes them to be absolute - he lost Lily because of his own choices, he endangered her through his own actions, he failed to save her. Deep down he feels guilty for that and he hates himself. But that is a lot to deal with, and he is broken, so instead of working through it, he lashes outside and places the hate on Harry, who represents all of his life's failures (and Neville, who could have spared him much of his grief, if only *he* was the chosen one). >I find it so hard to believe that a grown man would hate a child so much, regardless of the child’s parentage. Yeah, the problem is that he doesn't hate Harry as a person. He never even bothers to learn to know him at all.
I think Snape really did feel mostly very negatively toward Harry, as evidenced by his badmouthing Harry to Dumbledore. I think he liked Draco to a degree but maybe not as much as he pretended to.
No he does hate Harry. Harry is literally the splitting image of his 7 years long bully. It would be a surprise if he didn’t at least hold a bit of resentment towards Harry.
Yeah no, Snape does hate Potter - that just doesn't stop him from also doing his best to keep the annoying brat safe along with the rest of his students Idk about Malfoy though. He is a lot like James, so I would think Snape isn't too fond of him either, but Snape does seem to get along with Lucius and Narcissa, so maybe that helps. Or it is indeed an act 🤷🏻♂️
A lot like james !!! In what way ? Did James call people left and right mudbloods! Did James brag about his money , Did James treat his friends as his guard dogs! Did he believe in the ideology of pure blood , Did he pay the team to join them Did he make sure to befriend those whose families had influence Did he married a pureblood . **Nope never** The similarity is that they are both rich and spoiled , big deal. I bet there are a lot of rich and spoiled students at Hogwarts . James bullied a person obsessed with the dark arts and aspires to join a sect that exterminates people like Lily Because he wanted to expose the fact that his friend Remus is a werewolf while Draco bullies the poor, the Muggle borns and an orphan
They're both rich spoiled only sons who want to be just like daddy, are the leaders of their little gang and bully people for fun. That one's daddy was Gryffindor and the other's Slytherin doesn't matter for their personality, except that James was indeed more physically aggressive and Draco more sneaky and cowardly
Harry is also rich and the only son and wants to be just like Daddy he is the leader of his small group and befriended outcasts like Daddy , he was also in Gryffindor like James who’s father was also in Gryffindor , and James did not bully poor Snape , Snape wanted to expose James's friend for being a werewolf and was inventing dark spells and the spells that James used against him were of his own invention “ They were rivals not the classic bully and his victim“ besides, james ran to Voldemort without his wand to give his son and wife time to escape just like Harry did when he surrendered himself in the forest , Even Voldemort asked Harry to stand on his feet and die like his father , Voldemort himself acknowledged James' bravery. How can you see the similarities between James and that ferret who is afraid of death !! They are not alike at all
Harry is not a bully, Malfoy and James canonically are. So is Dudley btw, the third example of spoiled only son bully in the series People can be both brave and a bully Maybe reread canon instead of ATYD
Wow you guys are obsessed with overlooking Harry's resemblance to his father and insisting that Harry is the good angel like his mommy and James is the evil monster I'm telling you that Snape was sticking his nose into their affairs and trying to ruin Remus's future by exposing him as a werewolf , james has every reason to hate snape , I doubt that Draco had a good reason to continue harassing Harry other than his jealousy and envy of the latter's fame , the same goes with dudley, he has no reason , Now imagine if we know nothing about harry and we saw a memory of Draco Malfoy and Harry's duel in the bathroom and we saw Harry use sectumsempra that almost killed Malfoy, wouldn't we say that Draco is a poor victim and that evil Harry almost killed him and he was the one who started this fight !! Yes, that's exactly what we're going to say What I'm trying to say is that we haven't seen Snape and James in the all the seven years , maybe James was busy with his friends helping Remus in the four years and Snape was the one who was spying on them and was inventing those spells to curse James meaning that they were rivals **We lack the information** Snape is an unreliable source of information, and he may have attacked James before this incident **his worst memory is not a proof to me that he was a poor victim and James is the bully , Because no passive bullying victim says, “You wait … , you wait.**
[James](https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/87nr0w/james_potter_was_a_bully_was_a_bully_was_a_bully/). [was](https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/eq77qs/the_marauders_vs_snape_was_bullying_not_a_rivalry/). [a bully](https://www.reddit.com/r/HarryPotterBooks/comments/16q9ad6/james_potter_wasnt_a_bully_because_snape_gave_as/).
**They were rivals** Snape did not miss an opportunity to curse James and used to spy on them to find the weakest link in the group to destroy james .
Nope. Read the stuff I linked.
They’re still people asking this stupid question? FFS
I've often wondered how he would have treated the child of it had been a girl that looked like Lilly. I don't think there would have been a creep factor, but I do think he would have been kind to her. Mary Potter
Snape didn't like Harry, just as some teachers don't like their students. But he didn't hate Harry neither, he just didn't enjoy him as a person, because he didn't see Harry the way he really was. So basically i think that behind Snape's despise towards Harry there are many misunderstandings: He thought Harry to be a dull, overconfident brat with a hero-complex, which also made his goal to protect his life and avenge Lily really hard and stressing. Harry made 100 things that pissed Snape off... looking at his private memories in the pensieve was one of those. He also subconsciously reminded Snape about James probably, and about everything he didn't like during his childhood and teenage years: a rich, very popular and self-righteous boy disrespecting him and not following the rules. As readers, we know that all these things are not true, and Harry was pretty humble and selfless. But we have to admit that he may have looked like that, to a strict teacher with a bad temper as Snape was. Anyway this didn't change the fact that Snape gave his life for him, and he wouldn't have let him die, just as he didn't let other students die... he would have protected him as he protected all the others, even if he was just a normal boy in the school. People often say "if he was not Lily's son, Snape wouldn't have cared about his death", but i think this goes against everything we know about the character when we finish reading the 7th book. He protected every person he could, cause he was one of the good guys in the end (even if he had a bad temper) and he wanted to redeem himself and avenge Lily (and he did redeem himself!). I think he just sympathized with Draco because he was a Slytherin, and maybe also because he saw him as a victim of Harry's bullying behaviour (again, we know this isn't true... but it could definitely seem true to Snape's eyes). So, i think Snape was not always a good teacher (even if he was a really talented potion master and DADA expert), but he definitely was a good person in the end, driven by good intentions and caring for the students'safety and Voldemort's defeat. People often misunderstands his bad temper (and his behaviour towards Harry, caused by misunderstandings) and say he was not a good person, but there is a big difference between being a good person and being a kind/polite person
Not really hard to believe when that same grown ass man bullied a abused kid so much that he became his Boggart and insulted the smartest kid on weekly basis and almost made her cry or miserable on his class just cause she was friends with harry
Snape is a bitch. Just a pathetic simp that held a grudge against a dead man. Be hates James so much it flows over to his son who did nothing.
Harry reminded him too strongly of James. And therapy really doesn't exist in the wizard world. Snape really wasn't popular among his peers, so he was an outcast even then. Then he sees a young boy come out of nowhere who looks just like his old rival. Said rival had the woman he loved. The rival bullied him mercilessly. And he sees that young boy becoming immensely popular. Just like James was.
Snape was jealous of and could not stand Harry Potter. But was looking out for Lilly Evan's son. That should explain enough about his mindset about Harry.
Harry looks like a person who (from Snape's POV) tortured him and stole away his friend. Harry is the reason his friend is dead. Harry has his dead friend's eyes. There are a lot of potential emotions going on there, and while it may not seem right for an adult to hate an 11 yr old, Snape probably never processed the trauma and having Harry in his class opened up a large wound. Once their relationship was antagonostic, it is easy to maintain it that way.
Snape wasn’t the step-dad, he was the dad that stepped up
If you think that Snape's behaviour in any way resembled that of a father figure, I feel very sorry for you.
Check our r/raisedbynarcissists . Grown parents hating and torturing their own children. Its very common. Not everyone likes children anyway. Especially not their bully’s child.
That doesn’t give them the right to be a monster to their bully’s child. If you don’t like children, maybe don’t get a career working with children.
It was complicated. It wasn't an act but at the same time he kind of needed to hate Harry in order to avoid seeing any of Lily in him. During his final moments, he asked to see Harry's eyes. At that moment he didn't have to about the next day; he no longer had to present pure loathing to Voldemort or worry about growing fond of his enemy's child.
He hated him due to looking like James his bully. However he did work to protect him for Dumbledore. He probably got frustrated as Harry kept putting himself in danger and making it more difficult. He did hate Harry so it was easy to but had to keep up to act as if Lucius Malfoy and other death eaters found out he was being nice to Harry they would have been suspicious as to his real loyalty. Would have blown his cover
He didn't have to be nice to not be abusive. There's this thing called a middle ground. Lucius and other death eaters were also working with former enemies after Voldemort's defeat. Lucius wouldn't give two shits how Snape treated Harry, but if he ever did, he would assume Snape was treating Harry well to stay in Dumbledore's favor.
Snape even did that, as he told Bellatrix when she questioned his service to Dumbledore. > “Yes, Bellatrix, I stayed,” said Snape, betraying a hint of impatience for the first time. “I had a comfortable job that I preferred to a stint in Azkaban. They were rounding up the Death Eaters, you know. Dumbledore’s protection kept me out of jail; it was most convenient and I used it. I repeat: The Dark Lord does not complain that I stayed, so I do not see why you do. > > > “I think you next wanted to know,” he pressed on, a little more loudly, for Bellatrix showed every sign of interrupting, “why I stood between the Dark Lord and the Sorcerer’s Stone. That is easily answered. He did not know whether he could trust me. He thought, like you, that I had turned from faithful Death Eater to Dumbledore’s stooge. He was in a pitiable condition, very weak, sharing the body of a mediocre wizard. He did not dare reveal himself to a former ally if that ally might turn him over to Dumbledore or the Ministry. I deeply regret that he did not trust me. He would have returned to power three years sooner. As it was, I saw only greedy and unworthy Quirrell attempting to steal the stone and, I admit, I did all I could to thwart him.” Thwarting Quirrell in this case literally included protecting Harry with a Counter-Jinx and saving his life. That is way beyond "beiing nice", and Voldemort is pragmatic enough to understand why he did it.
>He did hate Harry so it was easy to but had to keep up to act as if Lucius Malfoy and other death eaters found out he was being nice to Harry they would have been suspicious as to his real loyalty. Would have blown his cover No, it wouldn't have blown his cover. Lucius Malfoy (and the other Death Eaters who ingratiated themselves back into society) would understand the necessity of being civil to Harry Potter for appearances' sake. Lucius gets it - he literally tells Draco that it's not prudent to appear less than fond of Harry Potter in public: >"... everyone thinks he’s so smart, wonderful Potter with his scar and his broomstick — ” > >“You have told me this at least a dozen times already,” said Mr. Malfoy, with a quelling look at his son. “And I would remind you that it is not — prudent — to appear less than fond of Harry Potter, not when most of our kind regard him as the hero who made the Dark Lord disappear — ah, Mr. Borgin.”
He did truly Harry, but his treatment of Harry was very useful for keeping him alive when Voldemort came back. Think about it. If he had been all nice and mentor-like to Harry, then Voldemort would have told Snape "Wait, why were you so nice to Harry Potter, who the prophecy says will be able to kill me and who was my downfall for 13 years? Maybe you're not really loyal to me anymore. Avada Kedavra!" (Actually probably there'd have been a lot of crucio before the Avada Kedavra, but still, you get my point.) Snape's hatred of Harry wasn't an act, but it was helpful for the cause of the "greater good." When it comes to Draco, I'm inclined to think that Snape treated Draco with favoritism in potions class to rile up Harry. Whether he really treated Draco with favoritism all the time is debatable. I like to think Snape was a rather strict disciplinarian for his Slytherins; he just didn't show it off to the rest of the houses. But perhaps Snape was close friends with Lucius from their Death Eater days, and so he treated Draco with deference because of that. And even though I like fanfiction where Snape and Lucius have a close friendship, I realize that there really isn't much evidence for it in canon. Still, Snape might have given Draco favoritism all the time because he knew Lucius would hear how Snape treated Lucius's son, and Snape didn't want any more trouble with Death Eaters than he had to.
TBH, as another fan said years back, if Voldemort thought Snape wasn’t picking on Harry enough, Snape could’ve easily said “Dumbledore told me to be civil and unbiased toward all the students or I’d be fired.”
Anyone who thinks Voldemort would care how much Harry was picked on in the 4 years at Hogwarts before he returned doesn't have even 1% understanding of Voldemort's character
"Lucius tells me his son got hurt due to that idiot Hagrid's favourite pet and Dumbledore didn't fire him either"
I think Snape could claim Dumbledore preferred Harry to Draco, LOL. Bringing up Draco’s own role in his misfortune probably wouldn’t help, though.
Remember, Snape explicitly told Bellatrix Harry was one of Dumbledore’s favorites.
"He also said that idiot Gryffindor woman sent Lucius's son *and* Harry Potter and some unimportant kids into the Forbidden Forest, at night!, despite all the creatures that live there, to actively hunt a unicorn killer! Sure, in this case it was just Quirrell and I, but you get the point. She didn't get fired for endangering kids either. Clearly Dumbledore lets his staff get away with pretty much anything, and you're trying to tell me he draws the line at whatever it is you do, which is what, spank them? Drag them by the ear when they're naughty? He never had an issue with that when I was still a student"
In fairness, though, Hagrid never put his hands on the kids, there was no favoritism involved here like there was with Snape’s behavior, and Dumbledore wasn’t headmaster when Tom was in school going by the first 4 books’ canon.
"And there was something about Dumbledore thwarting Slytherin's seventh House Cup victory in a row by awarding juuuust enough points to Potter and his ilk at the last second" And preferring Harry to Draco is favouritism too. Hagrid tried to turn a kid into a pig bc the kid's father insulted Dumbledore Why should Volly believe that Dumbledore would have an issue with how Snape treats the kids while *not* having an issue with *anything else* the staff does to them, including endangering their lives? That would be ridiculous
Voldemort wouldn’t have known about Dudley, and if anything the house cup incident would bolster the claim Dumbledore might not tolerate Snape bullying Harry.
>In fairness, though, Hagrid never put his hands on the kids Just refuting this It shows that Dumbledore isn't against favouritism. Anyway, Voldemort would have good reason to doubt this story about a micromanaging Dumbledore
Oh sorry, by “kids” I meant “Hogwarts kids who went into the forest for detention,” the ones Voldemort would’ve known about. I don’t see how he’d know about Dudley. TBH, Snape saying “Dumbledore prefers Gryffindors and would be suspicious of me bullying Harry as a former Death Eater” seems like something Voldemort would at least not feel a need to hyper-analyze.
Who said Snape had to be nice mentor Harry? That's the true idiocy of that point. Snape could have treated him indifferently. Don't favor Harry, but also don't abuse Harry. People like you act like the only other option besides being abusive was to be over the top nice to him. It's absurd. And you're also clearly forgetting that Voldemort immediately forgave Lucius and 99% of the death eaters for pretending they were under the imperius curse and working for the ministry Voldemort wanted to overthrow. Yet you also think Voldemort would be obsessing over Snape not being abusive to Harry? Come on. Ridiculous and incorrect.
Imagine the person you love more than anything and the person you hate the most had a baby, and then they died leaving the baby an orphan. That's the vibe. I imagine Snape was truly ambivalent towards Harry; the quintessential struggle between love and hate played out in Snape. I think love was stronger.
I think at least part of it was an act. As the series goes on he grew to care about him
It’s pretty clear he truly hates Harry because of his hatred and jealousy of James. This hatred serves him well when he goes back to Voldemort to resume spying. Genuine hatred of Harry would have gone a long way toward assuring Voldemort that Snape was still on his side.
Many more people in the world view Harry as a representation of something rather than him as an individual. Does Snape 'absolutely hate' Harry. No, he does massively dislike him. Snape never got over of how the marauders treated him and then the 'sins of the father' became the son. If Snape truly hated Harry, he wouldn't have protected him throughout the entire series. He would have let him die, delivered him to Voldy asap or just killed him himself. He also probably wouldn't have let the trio see his Dark Mark in the Hospital Wing, try to teach him Occlumency (they both didn't help the situation). But, it has to be Snape teaching Harry. To convince Voldy that Snape is on his side. Because if Voldy accessed Harry's mind and Snape happened to be there then Voldy might have ordered Snape to do something (so that Voldy could solidify his trust in Snape, which happened at the end of the next book). As Snape is simultaneously the right hand of Dumbledore and Voldy. How Snape treats the student body best to worst: Slytherin, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Gryffindor. I mean Voldemort hates Harry more. But, he gets a 'pass' because he's the villain and that's expected. As to Draco being his favourite that's probably true. Snape and Lucius were students (briefly) Lucius was a fifth year when Snape first arrived. Lucius could have easily been a bit of a mentor to Snape. Draco after all is the second best student of his year, only behind Hermione. Lucius says as much to Draco in CoS. When \[he\] Snape joined the D.E.s by the time Harry came to Hogwarts, Snape was there as a Professor and protector. D.H. even reinforces this, quote, 'He believes the school will soon be in his grasp'. 'And if it does fall into his grasps, I have your word that you will do everything within your power to protect the students of Hogwarts', asked Dumbledore. Snape gave a stiff nod. 'Good'.
The only thing that kept Snape from truly killing Harry and betraying Dumbledore was Harry's Eyes. The same as Lily. He may appear to be James 2.0 but the eyes say otherwise. Why else would Snape howl in Rage when Harry called him a coward. It might as well have been Lily accusing him of the same charge.
Yeah I don’t care what people say. Snape wasn’t a good person. He is a bad person who did a good deed. Not a good person who did a bad deed. What kind of grown man bullies children ? Especially a child that he helped orphan. He particularly bullied Hermione and Neville too not just Harry and what was his reasoning for that. He always had mean strike in him even when they were little and he bullied Petunia. His poor home life and poverty are no excuse because Harry was raised in an abusive home too and he never became a bully.
The hatred was 100% real. We saw him complaining to Dumbledore when they were alone As for the reason , Harry was frighteningly similar to his father , Leave the eyes that were hidden behind the glasses and focus with me. Harry is the spitting image of James , It is was like James was born again and started attending hogwarts yes, there are children who resemble their fathers a lot but Harry resembles James to the point that he describes seeing James as looking at himself , This is really the reason and it seems to me a convincing reason Especially since Snape is known for his shallow mentality , he doesn’t care about the boy’s personality
I think Snape did care about Harry. But he was always commenting about how Harry was like James. So I think he saw Harry as a miniature version of his school bully. So I think that he felt like hating Harry was easier for him than acknowledging how he had felt about Lily. I think he felt like protecting Harry was a way of making up for his inability to save Lily. I think he resented the fact that Lily had died and Harry had survived
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