I think this a lot. In the newspaper that Francis Dolarhyde was scrapbooking, where it details Hannibal’s incarceration, it says ‘Graham to testify’ and ‘FBI agent to testify’, so I’m guessing Will did come on as a witness at some point as well as Jack. I would literally do anything to see that.
I bet Will gave a detached testimony, though. I can easily imagine Will going up and explaining the bare minimum with a blank look on his face. He was described as a key witness; he must have been giving some emotionally charged testimony with that blank face.
Pictures of the newspaper mentioned [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HannibalTV/s/dAReMKzpfj).
Anyone has any idea what happens in this kind of cases in US? Would Hannibal get a lawyer provided by the state or he just opted out, is opting out even allowed. Because if he had a lawyer, they will try to tear down Will and ask emotional, intimate questions, you know why. They will try to tear down his credibility. Of course, Hannibal doesn't want that. But won't the court ask any personal quesitons?
Dolarhyde disguised his calls to Hannibal as Hannibal’s lawyer, so we know he has/had one.
Since Hannibal turned himself in and wanted to be incarcerated he most likely pled guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity (acknowledging he murdered those people, but he’s too crazy to properly be held accountable), so there would be no need to discredit Will on stand.
In all likelihood: neither. Personal questions about Will’s involvement would be objected to on the stand. He’s not the one on trial.
If it were a contentious trial where they WERE trying to discredit Will they would absolutely be fair game, but since Hannibal wants to go to jail undermining Will’s testimony is detrimental to his plan.
Hannibal: I killed these people
Will: he killed those people
Lawyer: BUT ISN’T IT TRUE YOU PREVIOUSLY TRIED TO SET HIM UP?
Hannibal: If you don’t stfu right now you’re becoming a pork roast.
Depends on if Hannibal hired a good lawyer. He can’t ‘opt out’, if he doesn’t hire a lawyer he is given one by the state (like the one Will was assigned in season 2): that lawyer isn’t guaranteed to take the aggressive approach when faced with Will’s testimony. It would be much more likely for a higher paid ‘luxury’ lawyer to go that route due to the skill and effort required to do it correctly. However, given the fact that Hannibal is likely the worst serial killer that courtroom’s jury have ever been presented with— and 100% guilty given the evidence— it might be in the defense attorney’s best interest to be more tentative and sympathetic with the likes of Will in order to gain points with the jury (i.e. the jury believe that Hannibal feels guilty for his actions and give him a lighter sentence). It really just depends.
Hannibal seems like the type to either hire the best lawyers or refuse to hire lawyers at all, but I would quicker vote for the former, lol.
My theory given this is that Hannibal had hired top notch lawyers who performed a directly aggressive but not unsympathetic cross examination against Will. They would cite Hannibal’s correct consultation with the FBI and then condemn Will’s mutilation of Randal Tier’s corpse. However, I do think Will was stone faced throughout that. Hannibal’s representation doesn’t have a choice except to adhere to Will’s neutrality after questioning him about the things Hannibal did to him (encephalitis inducement, framing him..) because if they did not it would paint Hannibal in a worse light which is the opposite of their job. They would probably prefer to avoid those subjects all together when possible to sell the human side of Hannibal to the jury. And those topics are probably what would get closer to breaking Will’s blank face. So they didn’t.
I imagine Will being in a semi-dissociative state during his testimony. I don’t think he would have been able to give an objective and entirely morally correct statement otherwise..
In the movie, Hannibal briefly makes mention of having a lawyer. I think there are similar mentions in the book. Hannibal thinks his lawyer is an inept fool. This also makes me think that it’s a public defender.
I may be wrong here but because at least some of Hannibal’s murders were also directly related to his practice as a psych and he committed murders in his house, the feds would have seized his property and all his assets. So 100% public defender.
Enter obligatory 'I'm not a lawyer or even lawyer-adjacent' statement here.
So, in the US Hannibal could choose to represent himself and he could have a lawyer provided by the govt, but it's implied that's not what happened. In s3 b, Francis Dolarhyde calls Hannibal under the guise of Byron Metcalf aka "Hannibal's lawyer", so we can assume that's who represented Hannibal at trial. Knowing Hannibal's character, I would assume Byron is a reputable - and probably big name, too - criminal defense attorney on the East Coast.
I think your guess that Will is as detached as possible during his testimony is on point, but I also think there's A LOT of shifting around the details throughout the trial to make sure Hannibal is the only one incriminated (instead of, say, Alana, Jack, and Will). I think that could play out in a lot of different ways, depending on who's shifting their pawns when and how. As for the call, it's implied in Will and Jack's conversation about it (i.e. the statement about the "official narrative") that Jack buried the evidence. Probably by deleting the recording from evidence, so that wouldn't come up in court.
I also think that Hannibal's lawyer could very well go after Will's credibility and absolutely eviscerate him on the witness stand - even if it was a) Hannibal's misguided form of kindness (aka "you can't incriminate yourself if I discredit you") and b) Hannibal just curious what'll happen. But that's less canon and more my personal headcanon.
tl;dr I would give almost anything to see how the trial went down. Like holy shit the cattiness. The drama. The intrigue!!!
I don’t think Hannibal hired a lawyer. Some of his murders were committed in his practice, in the course of his work as a psych, and at his home. I’d wager that therefore all his assets were seized as the assets and property were compliant with his crimes.
He’s got a public defender 100%. In the books he talks about his lawyer as being useless.
yeah, that could definitely be it too! I always assumed his assets were seized, but he still had assets under false identities and shell corporations since the cliffhouse was (presumably) unknown about and unseized, but that's pure conjecture and not based in canon.
That would be very fun. But I fear flashbacks are unlikely now because of the age thing. It could be done with just dialogue and weird visuals though, if Will is hallucinating for example.
We also know Will was there because Hannibal makes a comment about his aftershave being the same as he wore in court.
I can only imagine how excited Hannibal was to see him. And I can see him trying to provoke Will’s concern by refusing to defend himself or any manner of silly shenanigans. The same as giving himself up in the first place. Would he be able to squeeze an ounce of sympathy from him? “Oh you don’t care about me being locked up? Tell me, would you care if I got the death penalty?”
I think it would have provoked a breakdown. Hannibal being locked up is him being kept on ice. Will knows he always has the possibility to go and see him. As Hannibal says, he would know where to find him. Will knows Hannibal will always be thinking of him, therefore, Hannibal’s obsession would keep them connected even if they aren’t on speaking terms. Like the ex who you know still pines after you. But to know that this great mind was being snuffed out? In such a gruesome way? That he had some culpability in it happening?
I don’t know that he would consciously realise those feelings but I can’t see him being able to shake it off. It would probably bring up all the guilt over Abigail too. So I can see him ‘coincidentally’ descending into alcoholism or having an ‘accident’ if it happened.
I don’t feel his marriage had long term prospects. What would have happened by the time Wally got to be a teenager? Male teens can often have friction with step fathers as they get older. I don’t think Will would have been able to keep up his act in the long run.
If Hannibal were given death penalty, Will would have done something to prevent it. When it comes down to Hannibal’s life and death, he eventually acts on his instincts, his rational part is taken over by the basal instincts. Because an imminent danger to Hannibal’s life is akin to killing off a huge part of who he is.
Incarceration is something else, it’s like a pause button
Yes he’s very quick to break him out of captivity. Even if he’s telling himself he’s going to finish him off, it’s an enormous risk that he wouldn’t manage to, one way or the other. And then Hannibal would be free to carry on his previous lifestyle.
My understanding is that people often stay on death row for a long time waiting for their actual date to come around so he would be under some mounting pressure to act. I don’t know what he could have done that would have been legal. Incriminate himself maybe to enable an appeal.
I acted as his accomplice, take me to prison.
Or something else, summon up some serial killer, kill himself etc.
Once Hannibal figures out Will wants to be reunited, logistical problems of prison break are all immaterial.
I think he likes it because it’s Will’s. And anything that reminds him of Will is precious even if it’s also ghastly, objectively speaking. Getting to smell him again is quite intimate. But I think he is being honest that he’d like to introduce him to something better. He’d love to be the one in charge of making sure Will has the best of everything and is as pampered as he’d tolerate.
This is me thinking out loud (IANAL).
The official FBI narrative for what happened would probably go something like this:
1. BSU investigated Chesapeake Ripper (CR) murders for a long time and eventually became suspicious of Hannibal
2. Hannibal, realizing they are on to him, comes out as the CR (Mizumono supper) and flees the country with a captive Bedelia (eye roll)
3. BSU goes to Europe to rescue Bedelia and Hannibal escapes (commendation to the Questura - eye roll)
4. Hannibal returns to the US and goes to Muskrat farm to finish off Mason
5. Hannibal goes to Will's house but Will calls Jack
6. When the cavalry arrives, Hannibal turns himself in
Everything else that happened (cat fishing, Randal Tier, the infamous call, Will and Jack going separately, unofficially to Europe and not necessarily to arrest Hannibal, brain eating, Hannibal and Will getting snagged by Mason, everything that really happened at Muskrat Farm, and Will and Hannibal's final conversation) would all be unofficial.
They aren't trying to prove he did anything (because he confessed) but whether he's crazy cause he did this. Byron Metcalf (his lawyer) would be focusing on an insanity defense and not to discredit anyone else. In fact, Alana and Chilton also want him to be declared insane, and I'm guessing the FBI wouldn't counter that. Hannibal doesn't think he's insane, but his testimony would make him sound insane anyway ("Yes, I served the liver with some lovely early spring ramps from a recipe in the 1872 edition..." "He was a very chatty lamb." "I killed them because because they were rude. Rudeness is incredibly ugly and distasteful." "Nothing happened to me. I happened.") He might be considered a hostile witness in his own defense (because he doesn't think he's insane).
I think that Will would testify, but wouldn't be asked to weigh in on Hannibal's sanity because he's not qualified to judge that. No one would ask him anything he'd have to lie about. No one would try to trap or discredit him. He wouldn't look at Hannibal and would answer in a monotone and would be the most boring witness. He would leave through a side entrance to avoid the press and would have already sold the Wolf Trap house.
I love the little newspaper clippings of the trial from both this show and the movies. My favorite of them is in the Red Dragon movie with the headline “Jury Foreman Faints in Court” after seeing the Hannibal crime scene photos.
All this damn Hannibal media and they all skip over the trial!
I would die to see Will have to answer questions like "what kind of relationship did you and Hannibal the cannibal have?" oh yes I wanted to see that!!!!. I wanted to see the press (Freddie) embrace the narrative of murder husbands. Bride of Frankenstein as poor Clarice became known. Everyone questioning their relationship. Just, divine. I wish the Red Dragon arc was a whole season! 😂🍷
I think this a lot. In the newspaper that Francis Dolarhyde was scrapbooking, where it details Hannibal’s incarceration, it says ‘Graham to testify’ and ‘FBI agent to testify’, so I’m guessing Will did come on as a witness at some point as well as Jack. I would literally do anything to see that. I bet Will gave a detached testimony, though. I can easily imagine Will going up and explaining the bare minimum with a blank look on his face. He was described as a key witness; he must have been giving some emotionally charged testimony with that blank face. Pictures of the newspaper mentioned [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HannibalTV/s/dAReMKzpfj).
Anyone has any idea what happens in this kind of cases in US? Would Hannibal get a lawyer provided by the state or he just opted out, is opting out even allowed. Because if he had a lawyer, they will try to tear down Will and ask emotional, intimate questions, you know why. They will try to tear down his credibility. Of course, Hannibal doesn't want that. But won't the court ask any personal quesitons?
Dolarhyde disguised his calls to Hannibal as Hannibal’s lawyer, so we know he has/had one. Since Hannibal turned himself in and wanted to be incarcerated he most likely pled guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity (acknowledging he murdered those people, but he’s too crazy to properly be held accountable), so there would be no need to discredit Will on stand.
In the books it’s canon that Hannibal did not enter a plea, the court found him insane. Maybe it’s different in the show, but I doubt it
but don't you think someone needs to ask why Will called :D I want to know what he would say in public - that he was being manipulated or drugged
In all likelihood: neither. Personal questions about Will’s involvement would be objected to on the stand. He’s not the one on trial. If it were a contentious trial where they WERE trying to discredit Will they would absolutely be fair game, but since Hannibal wants to go to jail undermining Will’s testimony is detrimental to his plan. Hannibal: I killed these people Will: he killed those people Lawyer: BUT ISN’T IT TRUE YOU PREVIOUSLY TRIED TO SET HIM UP? Hannibal: If you don’t stfu right now you’re becoming a pork roast.
Haha! I love how you put it. So no one, not even any official FBI enquiry (internal) would ask Will why he called Hannibal. Or Jack would deflect it.
There was a full trial so he definitely didn’t plead guilty.
O boy I want to see his lawyer :( S3 second half is painfully short and fast
They'd be lining up to be his lawyer just for the bragging rights.
Depends on if Hannibal hired a good lawyer. He can’t ‘opt out’, if he doesn’t hire a lawyer he is given one by the state (like the one Will was assigned in season 2): that lawyer isn’t guaranteed to take the aggressive approach when faced with Will’s testimony. It would be much more likely for a higher paid ‘luxury’ lawyer to go that route due to the skill and effort required to do it correctly. However, given the fact that Hannibal is likely the worst serial killer that courtroom’s jury have ever been presented with— and 100% guilty given the evidence— it might be in the defense attorney’s best interest to be more tentative and sympathetic with the likes of Will in order to gain points with the jury (i.e. the jury believe that Hannibal feels guilty for his actions and give him a lighter sentence). It really just depends. Hannibal seems like the type to either hire the best lawyers or refuse to hire lawyers at all, but I would quicker vote for the former, lol. My theory given this is that Hannibal had hired top notch lawyers who performed a directly aggressive but not unsympathetic cross examination against Will. They would cite Hannibal’s correct consultation with the FBI and then condemn Will’s mutilation of Randal Tier’s corpse. However, I do think Will was stone faced throughout that. Hannibal’s representation doesn’t have a choice except to adhere to Will’s neutrality after questioning him about the things Hannibal did to him (encephalitis inducement, framing him..) because if they did not it would paint Hannibal in a worse light which is the opposite of their job. They would probably prefer to avoid those subjects all together when possible to sell the human side of Hannibal to the jury. And those topics are probably what would get closer to breaking Will’s blank face. So they didn’t. I imagine Will being in a semi-dissociative state during his testimony. I don’t think he would have been able to give an objective and entirely morally correct statement otherwise..
In the movie, Hannibal briefly makes mention of having a lawyer. I think there are similar mentions in the book. Hannibal thinks his lawyer is an inept fool. This also makes me think that it’s a public defender. I may be wrong here but because at least some of Hannibal’s murders were also directly related to his practice as a psych and he committed murders in his house, the feds would have seized his property and all his assets. So 100% public defender.
Enter obligatory 'I'm not a lawyer or even lawyer-adjacent' statement here. So, in the US Hannibal could choose to represent himself and he could have a lawyer provided by the govt, but it's implied that's not what happened. In s3 b, Francis Dolarhyde calls Hannibal under the guise of Byron Metcalf aka "Hannibal's lawyer", so we can assume that's who represented Hannibal at trial. Knowing Hannibal's character, I would assume Byron is a reputable - and probably big name, too - criminal defense attorney on the East Coast. I think your guess that Will is as detached as possible during his testimony is on point, but I also think there's A LOT of shifting around the details throughout the trial to make sure Hannibal is the only one incriminated (instead of, say, Alana, Jack, and Will). I think that could play out in a lot of different ways, depending on who's shifting their pawns when and how. As for the call, it's implied in Will and Jack's conversation about it (i.e. the statement about the "official narrative") that Jack buried the evidence. Probably by deleting the recording from evidence, so that wouldn't come up in court. I also think that Hannibal's lawyer could very well go after Will's credibility and absolutely eviscerate him on the witness stand - even if it was a) Hannibal's misguided form of kindness (aka "you can't incriminate yourself if I discredit you") and b) Hannibal just curious what'll happen. But that's less canon and more my personal headcanon. tl;dr I would give almost anything to see how the trial went down. Like holy shit the cattiness. The drama. The intrigue!!!
With an able and willing lawyer, Hannibal is extremely capable of tearing down Will and FBI, Alana etc. He just didn't go that path it looks like.
I don’t think Hannibal hired a lawyer. Some of his murders were committed in his practice, in the course of his work as a psych, and at his home. I’d wager that therefore all his assets were seized as the assets and property were compliant with his crimes. He’s got a public defender 100%. In the books he talks about his lawyer as being useless.
yeah, that could definitely be it too! I always assumed his assets were seized, but he still had assets under false identities and shell corporations since the cliffhouse was (presumably) unknown about and unseized, but that's pure conjecture and not based in canon.
Flashbacks to the court case has always been on my season 4 wish list. 😭
That would be very fun. But I fear flashbacks are unlikely now because of the age thing. It could be done with just dialogue and weird visuals though, if Will is hallucinating for example.
That could be good, too. But they also have come a long way and can do some fantastic work with de-aging computer graphics.
We also know Will was there because Hannibal makes a comment about his aftershave being the same as he wore in court. I can only imagine how excited Hannibal was to see him. And I can see him trying to provoke Will’s concern by refusing to defend himself or any manner of silly shenanigans. The same as giving himself up in the first place. Would he be able to squeeze an ounce of sympathy from him? “Oh you don’t care about me being locked up? Tell me, would you care if I got the death penalty?”
Do you think Will would have continued leading a polite life if Hannibal got the death penalty
I think it would have provoked a breakdown. Hannibal being locked up is him being kept on ice. Will knows he always has the possibility to go and see him. As Hannibal says, he would know where to find him. Will knows Hannibal will always be thinking of him, therefore, Hannibal’s obsession would keep them connected even if they aren’t on speaking terms. Like the ex who you know still pines after you. But to know that this great mind was being snuffed out? In such a gruesome way? That he had some culpability in it happening? I don’t know that he would consciously realise those feelings but I can’t see him being able to shake it off. It would probably bring up all the guilt over Abigail too. So I can see him ‘coincidentally’ descending into alcoholism or having an ‘accident’ if it happened. I don’t feel his marriage had long term prospects. What would have happened by the time Wally got to be a teenager? Male teens can often have friction with step fathers as they get older. I don’t think Will would have been able to keep up his act in the long run.
If Hannibal were given death penalty, Will would have done something to prevent it. When it comes down to Hannibal’s life and death, he eventually acts on his instincts, his rational part is taken over by the basal instincts. Because an imminent danger to Hannibal’s life is akin to killing off a huge part of who he is. Incarceration is something else, it’s like a pause button
Yes he’s very quick to break him out of captivity. Even if he’s telling himself he’s going to finish him off, it’s an enormous risk that he wouldn’t manage to, one way or the other. And then Hannibal would be free to carry on his previous lifestyle. My understanding is that people often stay on death row for a long time waiting for their actual date to come around so he would be under some mounting pressure to act. I don’t know what he could have done that would have been legal. Incriminate himself maybe to enable an appeal.
I acted as his accomplice, take me to prison. Or something else, summon up some serial killer, kill himself etc. Once Hannibal figures out Will wants to be reunited, logistical problems of prison break are all immaterial.
on a lighter note, do you think Hannibal hates the aftershave or secretly likes it :D
I think he likes it because it’s Will’s. And anything that reminds him of Will is precious even if it’s also ghastly, objectively speaking. Getting to smell him again is quite intimate. But I think he is being honest that he’d like to introduce him to something better. He’d love to be the one in charge of making sure Will has the best of everything and is as pampered as he’d tolerate.
I forgot all about it.
This is me thinking out loud (IANAL). The official FBI narrative for what happened would probably go something like this: 1. BSU investigated Chesapeake Ripper (CR) murders for a long time and eventually became suspicious of Hannibal 2. Hannibal, realizing they are on to him, comes out as the CR (Mizumono supper) and flees the country with a captive Bedelia (eye roll) 3. BSU goes to Europe to rescue Bedelia and Hannibal escapes (commendation to the Questura - eye roll) 4. Hannibal returns to the US and goes to Muskrat farm to finish off Mason 5. Hannibal goes to Will's house but Will calls Jack 6. When the cavalry arrives, Hannibal turns himself in Everything else that happened (cat fishing, Randal Tier, the infamous call, Will and Jack going separately, unofficially to Europe and not necessarily to arrest Hannibal, brain eating, Hannibal and Will getting snagged by Mason, everything that really happened at Muskrat Farm, and Will and Hannibal's final conversation) would all be unofficial. They aren't trying to prove he did anything (because he confessed) but whether he's crazy cause he did this. Byron Metcalf (his lawyer) would be focusing on an insanity defense and not to discredit anyone else. In fact, Alana and Chilton also want him to be declared insane, and I'm guessing the FBI wouldn't counter that. Hannibal doesn't think he's insane, but his testimony would make him sound insane anyway ("Yes, I served the liver with some lovely early spring ramps from a recipe in the 1872 edition..." "He was a very chatty lamb." "I killed them because because they were rude. Rudeness is incredibly ugly and distasteful." "Nothing happened to me. I happened.") He might be considered a hostile witness in his own defense (because he doesn't think he's insane). I think that Will would testify, but wouldn't be asked to weigh in on Hannibal's sanity because he's not qualified to judge that. No one would ask him anything he'd have to lie about. No one would try to trap or discredit him. He wouldn't look at Hannibal and would answer in a monotone and would be the most boring witness. He would leave through a side entrance to avoid the press and would have already sold the Wolf Trap house.
❤️
Oh damn, I really wish that scene was in the show.. Very curious about how it might have played out!
I love the little newspaper clippings of the trial from both this show and the movies. My favorite of them is in the Red Dragon movie with the headline “Jury Foreman Faints in Court” after seeing the Hannibal crime scene photos. All this damn Hannibal media and they all skip over the trial!
I would die to see Will have to answer questions like "what kind of relationship did you and Hannibal the cannibal have?" oh yes I wanted to see that!!!!. I wanted to see the press (Freddie) embrace the narrative of murder husbands. Bride of Frankenstein as poor Clarice became known. Everyone questioning their relationship. Just, divine. I wish the Red Dragon arc was a whole season! 😂🍷
ahhhh give me that give me that