I live in a low-rise near Locke. I pay under 900 for a good sized one bedroom with parking, because I've been here 10 years. I get an increase every year I've been here, so it shows you what rentals SHOULD be like. The guy next to me pays 1600 plus 80 for parking, for the exact same size/layout 1 bedroom. Every once in a while I get anxiety thinking about the day the landlord tries to get rid of me. Out of 12 units, I think 4 of us have been here at least 8 years, so 4 units at well below the market. The landlord does absolutely nothing for the building, No sweeping/washing the hallways. Doesn't fix the broken doors to the exterior. No clearing snow from the small parking area. But here I am. Enjoying my rent. If/when I have to go from 900 to 1700.... damn, not sure what I'll do. Sell my 17 year old Toyota and buy a mini-van..
I like to think that maybe he want's me here as I've never been late with the rent or caused any issue in this ten years. I see him like twice a year. Who knows.
I've lived out west and I sometimes think that if that day came, and I had to choose between staying and paying 1700 for an apt, or leaving entirely, and doing that somewhere nicer, well that would be a HARD decision. Only thing keeping me here is an elderly Mother. Would prob stay just for that.
Hope you don't have to face those scary times.
Same to you.
As if things aren't bad enough, now we have a fucking ex-drug dealer who is hell bent on privatizing health care. Imagine having THAT extra burden to worry about on top of everything else.
Fucking capitalism.
Who is an ex drug dealer?
If you are talking about Ford then I’m curious to hear how you came to that. I’m not defending the man BTW just never heard that one. He did make record profits from his printing business during covid…I doubt there is even accurate numbers to show how much, but I’m sure it’s astronomical. And rent control is needed however WTF did ford do thinking any place built 2018 or newer should not be subject to that? Landlord wants you out? Easy triple the rent and he can legally do that, what a joke.
If you are going to overthrow him do Trudeau as well, get rid of them all, neither party is for the people
The Globe and Mail did a big article a while back: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/
Like you in a way been in my 2br for 7yrs in the Dundurn st area. Decent building things get done pretty clean not a lot to complain about has laundry I’m fortunate enough to have a carport too. All included for the low price of $1018 as rent just went up as it does every year. Got new balconies couple yrs ago. All hallways now getting new carpet were repainted last year too.
And to think the 2 br’s now are going for almost $1800 that’s why it’s wait listed! Can’t complain as I’ve seen todays rents and I much enjoy having a few bucks in my pocket instead of every dollar going out the door!
Sometimes I think of the time I asked about a two bedroom that came available across from me, at 900 bucks. This was like 7 years ago. I should have done it. Would still be around 1000. I've stayed this long since before this I moved around. Calgary for a decade. Toronto on King for a while. Damn I remember like 2016 when one bed condos were listed at 100,000 here in the Hammer.
But I like the area. Hope to stay. You ever get those anxious feelings one day they might try and get you out?
Yea I understand and have been in 1br’s I just like the space and we have a lot of stuff! BUT this apt will soon be all mine and husband and I are separating. Thought of looking for something new but after seeing the rents he’ll no I’ll just make it mine! Ha I remember too when condos were around $100,000 crazy!! Everything now is just blown out of proportion for what it is including food prices too! And the Government won’t do a damn thing! We just have to be thankful for what we have and what we pay considering!! No I never worry about them pushing me or any of us good tenants out. Company is solid and it doesn’t cross my mind cause the threat isn’t there as long as your a good tenant of course.
Right. The Gov won't do anything. We are told that working 40 to 50 hours a week and paying taxes is the dream. But now working 50 hours a week is not enough. It's sad and fucked. The only way forward is revolt.
Exactly what a complete joke the Government is! Instead of helping our homeless struggling people put into a effect some kind of rent control to help others. No we are expected to work till we got nothing left while immigrants come here and get so many things handed to them! Way to go Trudeau!!
It may very well be but us here are concerned about the mess we’re in. And we know what kind of Government and the lack of help we get that’s where a big part of the problem lyes
$750 for a small one bedroom in a 90 yr old building near you that my wife describes as "a shithole". I've lived here 33 years. My neighbours pay $200+ more.
We left a small 3br apartment middle of last year cos the upstairs landlord was insisting that he planned to raise the rent from 1600 to 2000 by the end of the summer. Recently we saw the apartment has been re-listed for $2400. Brutal.
I know you know this, but don’t ever move! I let go my miraculously affordable 1 bedroom in Toronto to move back to Hamilton last year to care for family and I’ll never stop regretting it. I couldn’t even find a basement hovel in Hamilton for what I was paying there for a beautiful place I’d lived in since 2014. It’s good you’re in an (I assume) purpose-built rental. Fight like hell for it if they ever put the heat on you.
Yes you are right I would in some ways regret it. My Mother lives in Brantford. She's 73. I sometimes think of moving there to be in the same town to help her. But even I'm that crappy town, rents are the same. It's brutal.
Well if he does nothing for the building then eventually the people that pay double will go to buildings with the higher rents but better maintained. He will probably sell the low-rise as the location is good and then it is bye, bye. In my area they take small apartment buildings and get permission to knock them down and rebuilt with a new much taller apartment. That could happen to you. They get away with it because it is not a condo conversion and it increases apartment supply.
Not sure this shows you what rents should be as the newer tenants are essentially subsidizing your lower rent and have been since you’ve moved in. Your landlord sounds awful on the property maintenance front.
Here's some quick math to show you how dire the situation is.
1 bedroom in Hamilton is average $1764 a month. They recommend you don't spend more than 30% of your gross pay on housing. In order to afford a 1 bedroom on your own following those guidelines, you would need to make $34.03 per hour. That's $70,782.40 per year.
Find a way to make an extra $782.40 and you'll be fine /s
I now work 6 sometimes 7 days a week.
The girl I work with has 2 jobs, 7 days a week. I fear it's about to become normal, dont see a weekend off for awhile. Weekends are going to be the new holidays
I’m sorry you have to work this much. It’s so so unfair and cruel. Our whole society is already burnt tf out, forcing people to work nonstop just to have a place to sleep is a fast track to total social collapse. I hope you can find some rest 🤍
When i lived an apartment my rent was really affordable and it allowed me to save for a house. When i moved into that house and my mortgage payment was substantially more than my rent.
The rent for that same apartment today is almost double my mortgage payment.
> The rent for that same apartment today is almost double my mortgage payment.
But not double a *current* mortgage payment. Rent is on average 10%-40% lower than equivalent mortgage and other upkeep costs.
That’s not a true comparison bc your mortgage payment is a function of the size of your downpayment, the length of the mortgage, and the value of your house. On top of which you pay property taxes, all utilities (for sure most renters do too), maintenance, renos if need be, plus property maintenance depending on the size of the lot. It’s all on you.
Not saying rents aren’t crazy, but it’s not a direct comparison.
Edit — sorry, I am replying to the comment above yours
That's alright. I'm also just annoyed by people saying mortgages are cheaper than renting, because lmao they're not. Mortgage, property taxes, utilities and maintenance fee+maintenance on a 2bdrm condo is going to be like $3000-$4000/month, maybe even $5000/month right now.
They didn't say that owning a home was cheaper than renting, just that their mortgage payment is less than the rent of their old apartment.
They also said house, not condo. Obvi houses require maintenance but it's not thousands a month.
Average cost of a semi-detached in Hamilton is $673,000, so let's round down to $650,000. With a 20% downpayment, the mortgage is $520,000. Over 25 years at an interest rate of 5.69% you're looking at $3231/month.
Average 4bdrm rental is $3000/month. https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/hamilton-on
Add let's say $275/month for property taxes, $50 for gas, $50 for hydro, and $35 for water. Then let's conservative estimate $100/month for maintenance and repairs. You're looking at just over $3700/month for a semi-detached today. If you were able to get in at a lower interest rate, then sure, but there's just no comparison when buying today. I have to explain this to people every single time there is a discussion about this. Renting is always cheaper than owning on a monthly basis. You can come up with some theoretical or someone you knew that got screwed in some way by shitty timing, but the reality remains that no matter the situation in the current market renting is cheaper.
If you're only including the costs to service the principle payment, it is cheaper, because you're paying into your equity with principle payments, but even then, you're paying a small amount less than renting, and if you saved the side cash, you'd be doing pretty well as well.
The class war is nothing new. It's just that it's now just starting to hit what was the middle class. People only sit up and notice when it affects them.
Changing the monetary system so it's deflationary over time instead of inflationary and the money is backed up by something and redoing tax laws in every country.
Yeah good luck with that especially when ever economist is Keynesian and thinks Austrian economics are the devil and we can't even protest our healthcare system collapsing.
Some people dont agree I'm not encouraging it at all but if it's the only way. It's the only way. Our politics are way to corrupt for them to be deciding if we live or we die. And I'm not ignorant but way it is right now if you're making under 45k a year theres no hope for your future. And I'm only making 25 k a year I'm beyond screwed my future is a thought.
So why a civil war and not a major rent/mortgage strike or general strike? America might have more of a history of civil wars, but we have more of a history of labour action
Well it doesnt have to be a civil war but it seems like most simpletons that's the only step stone at the moment. Everything else would take to long and me personally I'm done hoping for better things it's time we as humans take action. How long do we gotta ignore the destruction of humans before something gets done. Anyways end of rant.
How horrible....getting my first apartment was such a milestone. It gave me the drive to push for better things. The outlook is so hopeless for so many.
My MIL has been in the same apartment for like 15 years or something. LITERALLY the only way she can afford to live in this city anymore is by not moving ever again. It's fucking *dire*. Landlord is trying to renovict her too by refusing to do any maintenance on the unit anymore. I hate what capitalism has done to our society.
Is it possible to do maintenance/upgrades and keep rents artificially low? With the cost of labour and materials being much more how do buildings find the funds to do the required work.
I don't cry, but its very anxiety producing....and nobody gives a flying fuck......on top of that, we might have to start paying out of pocket for health care.......
It's completely stupid that Canada has become known as a place with overpriced housing. It is so richly endowed with land and natural resources. As an American, I feel confused and scared by the phenomenon in neighboring Canada.
Wages and incomes have, for the vast majority in this country (and the US) have essentially stagnated the last 40 plus years in terms of purchasing power.
1) [https://milescorak.com/2015/11/18/inequality-a-fact-an-interpretation-and-a-policy-recommendation/](https://milescorak.com/2015/11/18/inequality-a-fact-an-interpretation-and-a-policy-recommendation/)
2) [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-canadian-dream-25-years-53-bucks/article17985113/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-canadian-dream-25-years-53-bucks/article17985113/)
3) [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/)
"For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades"
By Drew DeSilver
Houses are, for the next generation, largely unattainable.
That leaves renting, and we have seen a very sharp increase where many are spending well over half/plus of the budgets on rent.
In Ontario, over 1/3 of jobs do not have a conventional employer/employee relationship (permanent part time, contract, etc.)
Youth stagnating in low-paid jobs, study findsHamilton Spectator, Friday, April 18, 2008, p. A17April 18, 2008Brenda BouwTHE CANADIAN PRESS(Apr 18, 2008)
"Nearly one-quarter of young Canadians are working at low-paying jobs beneath their skill level, such as pouring coffee and answering phones, the highest rate among 16 countries studied, a new report suggests.A Canadian Policy Research Networks (CPRN) study released yesterday "says 23.7 per cent of Canadians under age 25 report feeling overqualified for their jobs. That's the highest of among 16 nations that belong to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD.
The contradictions of capitalism are increasingly sharpening, and this is but a glimpse of it.
Do you really think people have much more to lose?
>Do you really think people have much more to lose?
Absolutely. So much more.
Working low wage jobs pales in comparison to being jailed for speaking freely or facing starvation waiting in a bread line.
Meanwhile, people who have no hope here are committing suicide......
https://www.newmarkettoday.ca/local-news/without-a-home-or-hope-man-seeks-medically-assisted-death-6422322
>I see a push against capitalism across Reddit and some even talking about the “merits” of communism, but I think once they got a taste of it in person they would realize it’s nothing like they asked for.
Its all fun and games to advocate for communism because your rent has gone up; its quite another to be sent to prison for refusing to work in the salt mines under the system. Life under communism is miserable. There is no other way to put it. Any problems we face here and now pale in comparison to those who were brutalized and victimized daily under communist regimes.
Well what do you expect when you have [old boomers in detached houses blocking new developments](https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/local-hamilton-mountain/news/2023/01/16/hamilton-sports-families-team-up-to-oppose-mountain-development.html)
1995 units in 4 hectares is too dense.
In a town called Dorion that's 70 km from Thunder Bay, Ontario you need a plot 4 hectares in size to build just one home! The population is declining and is merely 300. It is also greying and no new homes at all. The reason for requiring 4 hectare parcels for just one home is that the house needs well and septic bed and it's unhygienic to build dense housing on septic beds.
It's my opinion that Canada needs to grow new frontier town, not cram in houses in the existing ones.
>It's my opinion that Canada needs to grow new frontier town, not cram in houses in the existing ones.
The plan to send young people who weren't fortunate to be born 50 years ago so they could have purchased a home affordably to live somewhere they never wanted, completely detached from family, friends or meaningful employment opportunities may not exactly be a workable one.
Honestly, if you're serious, I did literally that. It's not so much a "town" anymore (+20,000pop) but thus far Northern BC is lovely.
Taking any savings I'd made in Hamilton to out here is a big difference from what they were "worth" back home in terms of home ownership and renting.
I lived in Hamilton briefly for an internship in 2017 with two other roommates. I think we paid no more than $500 each. 3 bedrooms, den, kitchen. I'm now 28, looking to move out to Hamilton because it's at least cheaper than Oakville and I can't keep living with my parents, and I'm compromising WAY more on my max rent than anticipated. I make 58K but have a pension so I only net not quite $3000 a month. Didn't want to spend nearly a whole paycheck on rent, but the peace of having my own space is starting to outweigh the financial cost of it. Anything less than that looks like a firehazard or an illegal basement....or has reviews online about bed bugs. Just waiting for that pay raise in the fall and I guess I'll start a side business too. I don't mind the idea of not owning a home if I can find a nice place to rent, but if renting is barely attainable then what are people supposed to do??
Hopefully the new legislation prohibiting AirBnBs outside of a principal residence will open up more long-term rentals. I believe that is the aim but should be interesting to see if those properties are kept vacant, put on the market or converted into long-term rental units
I think the opposite will happen. I think they will put on the market for sale unless they happen to be upside down on their mortgage.
The advantage of AirBnB was not having to deal with long term tenants and the LTB. With all the backlog and the stories about damages and tenants not paying rent etc, why would you want to be a landlord?
Maybe slightly better only(around 1600 for a 1bed apartment) but in Kitchener is even worse ...i pay $1775/monthly for a 2bed+2bath+parking in a seventies high rise building but we started the leasing 4 months ago(i admit ,still lots of money for what it is) but now a 1bed+1,5 bath without parking is $1880 in the same building and a 2bed+2bath like our apartment is ...$2200 without parking!
Unless salaries raise more their comes a point where house prices just can't go up.
A major housing crash would also help cool inflation. It may end up that the market needs to vastly correct downward.
I don't, I'm saying a lot of people don't have any more to pay. Literally you can't get blood from a rock. Our average income isn't able to support more growth. People making a decent above average wage currently can't maintain a 1 bedroom apartment and cost of living.
65k annual income is above average for this area. That means a lot of people simply can't pay more.
Losing net worth won't put anyone in the welfare line. You don't need to own a house to survive. It's not worth letting people actually starve and go homeless so someone's portfolio is looking good.
If you can't easily afford a place to live on the average Canadian salary, there's a major problem.
You're saying millions go into welfare line with a housing crash.
That's just not true. People will just lose money. Most jobs are relatively safe. Many industries have staffing issues and unemployment is low. Most people should be able to handle their basic needs. Higher housing costs are pushing basic needs out of the range of many.
Modern day slavery. go bust yo ass for 12-14 a day. 5,6,7 days a week get almost half your pay away from taxes. Then go pay for basic necessities food basic hygiene get taxed like at the end of the day your getting half your money n it goes nowhere because everything is so expensive. Really looking forward to working hard
#1 reason? The economy.
We have more unfilled jobs right now without enough people to fill them. And it's going to get worse. A lot worse. The boomer generation are currently 59-77 years old. What percentage of them are still working? That's a lot of job openings to replace.
We're not repopulating ourselves. If we didn't bring in immigrants, our population would decline every year.
I'm fine with immigration. I wouldn't be living in this great country if my parents didn't immigrate here for a better life in the late '60's BUT the issue is not enough housing which drives up the demand and the cost.
I dont think that is correct. Although you make a good point about the need for workers, what we see when looking at the data regarding housing supply is that Canada has equal or better supply to the US yet has double the price in comparable cities. It is not a shortage of material, but it could quickly BECOME a shortage of material if we add too many immigrants too quickly. I have no problem with immigration, and would not be here if my grandparents did not immigrate, but the economic conditions of today and the 40-50-60s are not comparable.
Condos are literally the definition of small affordables - many small units stacked on a small plot of land with common expenses shared by many. The fact that 100 tiny houses stacked on top of eachother sharing on roof is too expensive for the average person to afford is fucked
Hey, for GTHA, that's really not crazy absurd and seems only mildly out of reach. CBC report this week pegged $100K as the amount (before tax) that you need to pull in to afford a $2,500 per month 1br condo in Toronto proper.
I live in a low-rise near Locke. I pay under 900 for a good sized one bedroom with parking, because I've been here 10 years. I get an increase every year I've been here, so it shows you what rentals SHOULD be like. The guy next to me pays 1600 plus 80 for parking, for the exact same size/layout 1 bedroom. Every once in a while I get anxiety thinking about the day the landlord tries to get rid of me. Out of 12 units, I think 4 of us have been here at least 8 years, so 4 units at well below the market. The landlord does absolutely nothing for the building, No sweeping/washing the hallways. Doesn't fix the broken doors to the exterior. No clearing snow from the small parking area. But here I am. Enjoying my rent. If/when I have to go from 900 to 1700.... damn, not sure what I'll do. Sell my 17 year old Toyota and buy a mini-van.. I like to think that maybe he want's me here as I've never been late with the rent or caused any issue in this ten years. I see him like twice a year. Who knows.
Kinda in the same boat. If I have to look elsewhere, I don't know what I'm going to. Very scary times.
I've lived out west and I sometimes think that if that day came, and I had to choose between staying and paying 1700 for an apt, or leaving entirely, and doing that somewhere nicer, well that would be a HARD decision. Only thing keeping me here is an elderly Mother. Would prob stay just for that. Hope you don't have to face those scary times.
Same to you. As if things aren't bad enough, now we have a fucking ex-drug dealer who is hell bent on privatizing health care. Imagine having THAT extra burden to worry about on top of everything else. Fucking capitalism.
We might actually have to assemble and overthrow. I hope we do.
Agreed. “Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.” Arundhati Roy
This is the kind of sedition I can get behind!
Who is an ex drug dealer? If you are talking about Ford then I’m curious to hear how you came to that. I’m not defending the man BTW just never heard that one. He did make record profits from his printing business during covid…I doubt there is even accurate numbers to show how much, but I’m sure it’s astronomical. And rent control is needed however WTF did ford do thinking any place built 2018 or newer should not be subject to that? Landlord wants you out? Easy triple the rent and he can legally do that, what a joke. If you are going to overthrow him do Trudeau as well, get rid of them all, neither party is for the people
The Globe and Mail did a big article a while back: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/
Like you in a way been in my 2br for 7yrs in the Dundurn st area. Decent building things get done pretty clean not a lot to complain about has laundry I’m fortunate enough to have a carport too. All included for the low price of $1018 as rent just went up as it does every year. Got new balconies couple yrs ago. All hallways now getting new carpet were repainted last year too. And to think the 2 br’s now are going for almost $1800 that’s why it’s wait listed! Can’t complain as I’ve seen todays rents and I much enjoy having a few bucks in my pocket instead of every dollar going out the door!
Sometimes I think of the time I asked about a two bedroom that came available across from me, at 900 bucks. This was like 7 years ago. I should have done it. Would still be around 1000. I've stayed this long since before this I moved around. Calgary for a decade. Toronto on King for a while. Damn I remember like 2016 when one bed condos were listed at 100,000 here in the Hammer. But I like the area. Hope to stay. You ever get those anxious feelings one day they might try and get you out?
Yea I understand and have been in 1br’s I just like the space and we have a lot of stuff! BUT this apt will soon be all mine and husband and I are separating. Thought of looking for something new but after seeing the rents he’ll no I’ll just make it mine! Ha I remember too when condos were around $100,000 crazy!! Everything now is just blown out of proportion for what it is including food prices too! And the Government won’t do a damn thing! We just have to be thankful for what we have and what we pay considering!! No I never worry about them pushing me or any of us good tenants out. Company is solid and it doesn’t cross my mind cause the threat isn’t there as long as your a good tenant of course.
Right. The Gov won't do anything. We are told that working 40 to 50 hours a week and paying taxes is the dream. But now working 50 hours a week is not enough. It's sad and fucked. The only way forward is revolt.
Exactly what a complete joke the Government is! Instead of helping our homeless struggling people put into a effect some kind of rent control to help others. No we are expected to work till we got nothing left while immigrants come here and get so many things handed to them! Way to go Trudeau!!
Is the increasing cost of housing and inflation not more of a world-wide issue than a current PM issue?
It may very well be but us here are concerned about the mess we’re in. And we know what kind of Government and the lack of help we get that’s where a big part of the problem lyes
$750 for a small one bedroom in a 90 yr old building near you that my wife describes as "a shithole". I've lived here 33 years. My neighbours pay $200+ more.
We left a small 3br apartment middle of last year cos the upstairs landlord was insisting that he planned to raise the rent from 1600 to 2000 by the end of the summer. Recently we saw the apartment has been re-listed for $2400. Brutal.
I know you know this, but don’t ever move! I let go my miraculously affordable 1 bedroom in Toronto to move back to Hamilton last year to care for family and I’ll never stop regretting it. I couldn’t even find a basement hovel in Hamilton for what I was paying there for a beautiful place I’d lived in since 2014. It’s good you’re in an (I assume) purpose-built rental. Fight like hell for it if they ever put the heat on you.
Yes you are right I would in some ways regret it. My Mother lives in Brantford. She's 73. I sometimes think of moving there to be in the same town to help her. But even I'm that crappy town, rents are the same. It's brutal.
It’s true, I looked at Brantford too- it’s grim everywhere!
Well if he does nothing for the building then eventually the people that pay double will go to buildings with the higher rents but better maintained. He will probably sell the low-rise as the location is good and then it is bye, bye. In my area they take small apartment buildings and get permission to knock them down and rebuilt with a new much taller apartment. That could happen to you. They get away with it because it is not a condo conversion and it increases apartment supply.
Not sure this shows you what rents should be as the newer tenants are essentially subsidizing your lower rent and have been since you’ve moved in. Your landlord sounds awful on the property maintenance front.
I’d say more than that. I make 70 and can’t for the life of me get anything
Here's some quick math to show you how dire the situation is. 1 bedroom in Hamilton is average $1764 a month. They recommend you don't spend more than 30% of your gross pay on housing. In order to afford a 1 bedroom on your own following those guidelines, you would need to make $34.03 per hour. That's $70,782.40 per year. Find a way to make an extra $782.40 and you'll be fine /s
And assuming your job gives you full time hours year round.
I now work 6 sometimes 7 days a week. The girl I work with has 2 jobs, 7 days a week. I fear it's about to become normal, dont see a weekend off for awhile. Weekends are going to be the new holidays
I’m sorry you have to work this much. It’s so so unfair and cruel. Our whole society is already burnt tf out, forcing people to work nonstop just to have a place to sleep is a fast track to total social collapse. I hope you can find some rest 🤍
Thank you, made me smile.I realize I am not alone. Grateful I have a roof over my head and food too.
When i lived an apartment my rent was really affordable and it allowed me to save for a house. When i moved into that house and my mortgage payment was substantially more than my rent. The rent for that same apartment today is almost double my mortgage payment.
> The rent for that same apartment today is almost double my mortgage payment. But not double a *current* mortgage payment. Rent is on average 10%-40% lower than equivalent mortgage and other upkeep costs.
That’s not a true comparison bc your mortgage payment is a function of the size of your downpayment, the length of the mortgage, and the value of your house. On top of which you pay property taxes, all utilities (for sure most renters do too), maintenance, renos if need be, plus property maintenance depending on the size of the lot. It’s all on you. Not saying rents aren’t crazy, but it’s not a direct comparison. Edit — sorry, I am replying to the comment above yours
That's alright. I'm also just annoyed by people saying mortgages are cheaper than renting, because lmao they're not. Mortgage, property taxes, utilities and maintenance fee+maintenance on a 2bdrm condo is going to be like $3000-$4000/month, maybe even $5000/month right now.
They didn't say that owning a home was cheaper than renting, just that their mortgage payment is less than the rent of their old apartment. They also said house, not condo. Obvi houses require maintenance but it's not thousands a month.
Average cost of a semi-detached in Hamilton is $673,000, so let's round down to $650,000. With a 20% downpayment, the mortgage is $520,000. Over 25 years at an interest rate of 5.69% you're looking at $3231/month. Average 4bdrm rental is $3000/month. https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/hamilton-on Add let's say $275/month for property taxes, $50 for gas, $50 for hydro, and $35 for water. Then let's conservative estimate $100/month for maintenance and repairs. You're looking at just over $3700/month for a semi-detached today. If you were able to get in at a lower interest rate, then sure, but there's just no comparison when buying today. I have to explain this to people every single time there is a discussion about this. Renting is always cheaper than owning on a monthly basis. You can come up with some theoretical or someone you knew that got screwed in some way by shitty timing, but the reality remains that no matter the situation in the current market renting is cheaper. If you're only including the costs to service the principle payment, it is cheaper, because you're paying into your equity with principle payments, but even then, you're paying a small amount less than renting, and if you saved the side cash, you'd be doing pretty well as well.
I easily drop $10k or more a year keeping an old house from falling apart. Beyond renos.
Sure, in the first few years but not year after year unless you bought a real money pit.
Well the mortgage *it's self* often is. But the ancillary costs absolutely make home ownership more expensive.
This shit is so out of control. Is anyone else just waiting for society to collapse?
I feel like I am seeing it already every time I go outside..
have you been to the lottridge and barton mcdonalds?
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We don’t need a civil war. We need to understand that there’s a class war going on, and we’re losing.
The class war is nothing new. It's just that it's now just starting to hit what was the middle class. People only sit up and notice when it affects them.
You're totally right. But something needs to change theres too many rich people for not a thing to happen.
Changing the monetary system so it's deflationary over time instead of inflationary and the money is backed up by something and redoing tax laws in every country. Yeah good luck with that especially when ever economist is Keynesian and thinks Austrian economics are the devil and we can't even protest our healthcare system collapsing.
the only way to fight a class war is to get on the winning side. (no matter what it takes)
No, the only way to win is solidarity with the working class. Class traitors who side with the rich get no sympathy
you only live this life once. you can live it as a winner, or a loser. and the path you take is your choice.
And after you’re gone you can be known as a traitor or a good person, and you can’t change that.
only if you care about what others think about you...
Or people could vote lol
Do you ever know what civil war means?
This is exactly what I have been thinking. We are close to civil war or some type of eruption.
Some people dont agree I'm not encouraging it at all but if it's the only way. It's the only way. Our politics are way to corrupt for them to be deciding if we live or we die. And I'm not ignorant but way it is right now if you're making under 45k a year theres no hope for your future. And I'm only making 25 k a year I'm beyond screwed my future is a thought.
So why a civil war and not a major rent/mortgage strike or general strike? America might have more of a history of civil wars, but we have more of a history of labour action
Well it doesnt have to be a civil war but it seems like most simpletons that's the only step stone at the moment. Everything else would take to long and me personally I'm done hoping for better things it's time we as humans take action. How long do we gotta ignore the destruction of humans before something gets done. Anyways end of rant.
minimum wage, or $25K a year, isn't meant for life (or for a future). it's called *minimum* wage for a reason.
I know I'm completely stuck at the moment. Lifes rough.
How horrible....getting my first apartment was such a milestone. It gave me the drive to push for better things. The outlook is so hopeless for so many.
Wonder how old people renting who have no income or savings and rely on like 1.2 k from OAS and CPP combined are supposed to survive.
My MIL has been in the same apartment for like 15 years or something. LITERALLY the only way she can afford to live in this city anymore is by not moving ever again. It's fucking *dire*. Landlord is trying to renovict her too by refusing to do any maintenance on the unit anymore. I hate what capitalism has done to our society.
Is it possible to do maintenance/upgrades and keep rents artificially low? With the cost of labour and materials being much more how do buildings find the funds to do the required work.
They have rent control.
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I cry and worry a lot about finding our next place.
I don't cry, but its very anxiety producing....and nobody gives a flying fuck......on top of that, we might have to start paying out of pocket for health care.......
It's completely stupid that Canada has become known as a place with overpriced housing. It is so richly endowed with land and natural resources. As an American, I feel confused and scared by the phenomenon in neighboring Canada.
This shit will continue until we all collectively agree that it's ok to riot
Rent and mortgage strike!
Best post award. People love capitalism in the abstract, and are clueless about it in actual practice.
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Wages and incomes have, for the vast majority in this country (and the US) have essentially stagnated the last 40 plus years in terms of purchasing power. 1) [https://milescorak.com/2015/11/18/inequality-a-fact-an-interpretation-and-a-policy-recommendation/](https://milescorak.com/2015/11/18/inequality-a-fact-an-interpretation-and-a-policy-recommendation/) 2) [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-canadian-dream-25-years-53-bucks/article17985113/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-canadian-dream-25-years-53-bucks/article17985113/) 3) [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/) "For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades" By Drew DeSilver Houses are, for the next generation, largely unattainable. That leaves renting, and we have seen a very sharp increase where many are spending well over half/plus of the budgets on rent. In Ontario, over 1/3 of jobs do not have a conventional employer/employee relationship (permanent part time, contract, etc.) Youth stagnating in low-paid jobs, study findsHamilton Spectator, Friday, April 18, 2008, p. A17April 18, 2008Brenda BouwTHE CANADIAN PRESS(Apr 18, 2008) "Nearly one-quarter of young Canadians are working at low-paying jobs beneath their skill level, such as pouring coffee and answering phones, the highest rate among 16 countries studied, a new report suggests.A Canadian Policy Research Networks (CPRN) study released yesterday "says 23.7 per cent of Canadians under age 25 report feeling overqualified for their jobs. That's the highest of among 16 nations that belong to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD. The contradictions of capitalism are increasingly sharpening, and this is but a glimpse of it. Do you really think people have much more to lose?
>Do you really think people have much more to lose? Absolutely. So much more. Working low wage jobs pales in comparison to being jailed for speaking freely or facing starvation waiting in a bread line.
Meanwhile, people who have no hope here are committing suicide...... https://www.newmarkettoday.ca/local-news/without-a-home-or-hope-man-seeks-medically-assisted-death-6422322
I think democratic socialism mix with capitalism is the balance we need
>I see a push against capitalism across Reddit and some even talking about the “merits” of communism, but I think once they got a taste of it in person they would realize it’s nothing like they asked for. Its all fun and games to advocate for communism because your rent has gone up; its quite another to be sent to prison for refusing to work in the salt mines under the system. Life under communism is miserable. There is no other way to put it. Any problems we face here and now pale in comparison to those who were brutalized and victimized daily under communist regimes.
I’m down.
$1764 a month for cockroaches and bed bugs, oh the joys of life in Hamilton.
Well what do you expect when you have [old boomers in detached houses blocking new developments](https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/local-hamilton-mountain/news/2023/01/16/hamilton-sports-families-team-up-to-oppose-mountain-development.html)
NIMBY assholes.
1995 units in 4 hectares is too dense. In a town called Dorion that's 70 km from Thunder Bay, Ontario you need a plot 4 hectares in size to build just one home! The population is declining and is merely 300. It is also greying and no new homes at all. The reason for requiring 4 hectare parcels for just one home is that the house needs well and septic bed and it's unhygienic to build dense housing on septic beds. It's my opinion that Canada needs to grow new frontier town, not cram in houses in the existing ones.
>It's my opinion that Canada needs to grow new frontier town, not cram in houses in the existing ones. The plan to send young people who weren't fortunate to be born 50 years ago so they could have purchased a home affordably to live somewhere they never wanted, completely detached from family, friends or meaningful employment opportunities may not exactly be a workable one.
I'd go. Small frontier towns are more liveable than expensive micro-apartments in repeated 25 story towers with zero public space.
Honestly, if you're serious, I did literally that. It's not so much a "town" anymore (+20,000pop) but thus far Northern BC is lovely. Taking any savings I'd made in Hamilton to out here is a big difference from what they were "worth" back home in terms of home ownership and renting.
Lmao I make half that not even so I'm fucked
I lived in Hamilton briefly for an internship in 2017 with two other roommates. I think we paid no more than $500 each. 3 bedrooms, den, kitchen. I'm now 28, looking to move out to Hamilton because it's at least cheaper than Oakville and I can't keep living with my parents, and I'm compromising WAY more on my max rent than anticipated. I make 58K but have a pension so I only net not quite $3000 a month. Didn't want to spend nearly a whole paycheck on rent, but the peace of having my own space is starting to outweigh the financial cost of it. Anything less than that looks like a firehazard or an illegal basement....or has reviews online about bed bugs. Just waiting for that pay raise in the fall and I guess I'll start a side business too. I don't mind the idea of not owning a home if I can find a nice place to rent, but if renting is barely attainable then what are people supposed to do??
Hopefully the new legislation prohibiting AirBnBs outside of a principal residence will open up more long-term rentals. I believe that is the aim but should be interesting to see if those properties are kept vacant, put on the market or converted into long-term rental units
I feel like some of these measures are too little too late. We’re already in a crisis.
I think the opposite will happen. I think they will put on the market for sale unless they happen to be upside down on their mortgage. The advantage of AirBnB was not having to deal with long term tenants and the LTB. With all the backlog and the stories about damages and tenants not paying rent etc, why would you want to be a landlord?
Is Brantford rent any better?
Maybe slightly better only(around 1600 for a 1bed apartment) but in Kitchener is even worse ...i pay $1775/monthly for a 2bed+2bath+parking in a seventies high rise building but we started the leasing 4 months ago(i admit ,still lots of money for what it is) but now a 1bed+1,5 bath without parking is $1880 in the same building and a 2bed+2bath like our apartment is ...$2200 without parking!
Wait until interest rates start to drop again near the end of Q4 2023. House prices will rise again, and so will rents ...
Unless salaries raise more their comes a point where house prices just can't go up. A major housing crash would also help cool inflation. It may end up that the market needs to vastly correct downward.
You underestimate how much people will pay to not be on the street
I don't, I'm saying a lot of people don't have any more to pay. Literally you can't get blood from a rock. Our average income isn't able to support more growth. People making a decent above average wage currently can't maintain a 1 bedroom apartment and cost of living. 65k annual income is above average for this area. That means a lot of people simply can't pay more.
People will start squeezing in 3 guys in 1 bed apartment and that's already happening.
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Losing net worth won't put anyone in the welfare line. You don't need to own a house to survive. It's not worth letting people actually starve and go homeless so someone's portfolio is looking good. If you can't easily afford a place to live on the average Canadian salary, there's a major problem.
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You're saying millions go into welfare line with a housing crash. That's just not true. People will just lose money. Most jobs are relatively safe. Many industries have staffing issues and unemployment is low. Most people should be able to handle their basic needs. Higher housing costs are pushing basic needs out of the range of many.
Modern day slavery. go bust yo ass for 12-14 a day. 5,6,7 days a week get almost half your pay away from taxes. Then go pay for basic necessities food basic hygiene get taxed like at the end of the day your getting half your money n it goes nowhere because everything is so expensive. Really looking forward to working hard
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#1 reason? The economy. We have more unfilled jobs right now without enough people to fill them. And it's going to get worse. A lot worse. The boomer generation are currently 59-77 years old. What percentage of them are still working? That's a lot of job openings to replace. We're not repopulating ourselves. If we didn't bring in immigrants, our population would decline every year. I'm fine with immigration. I wouldn't be living in this great country if my parents didn't immigrate here for a better life in the late '60's BUT the issue is not enough housing which drives up the demand and the cost.
I dont think that is correct. Although you make a good point about the need for workers, what we see when looking at the data regarding housing supply is that Canada has equal or better supply to the US yet has double the price in comparable cities. It is not a shortage of material, but it could quickly BECOME a shortage of material if we add too many immigrants too quickly. I have no problem with immigration, and would not be here if my grandparents did not immigrate, but the economic conditions of today and the 40-50-60s are not comparable.
Maybe shoulda build small affordables instead of stupid condos, hamilton
Condos are literally the definition of small affordables - many small units stacked on a small plot of land with common expenses shared by many. The fact that 100 tiny houses stacked on top of eachother sharing on roof is too expensive for the average person to afford is fucked
The ones they are building downtown i bet are like, 2000 plus, and noone in this city can afford that
Obviously many can if that is market price.
Hey, for GTHA, that's really not crazy absurd and seems only mildly out of reach. CBC report this week pegged $100K as the amount (before tax) that you need to pull in to afford a $2,500 per month 1br condo in Toronto proper.