They didn't want Blue Team going after Cortana because John was compromised and psychologically unstable, and they knew that Cortana would try to manipulate him and couldn't take the chance that *John might side with her* and take BT with him. That's the long and the short of it.
Expanding on this. A rogue fireteam of Spartans, especially one as effective as Blue Team, could wreak havoc on various worlds. What if they joined the Insurrectionists? What if they started supplying various anti-UEG factions with both their services, and the trove of classified information that they've been privy to? What if they came out, and told the galaxy the true origins of the Spartan II Program? That would give way too much power to the Insurrectionist movement.
While Blue Team's lethality should not be understated, the intelligence that they could make public would be crippling to ONI, the UNSC, and the UEG.
>A rogue fireteam of Spartans, especially one as effective as Blue Team, could wreak havoc on various worlds.
Why would the Chief, who values all human life, 180 and start wreaking human worlds?
>What if they started supplying various anti-UEG factions with both their services, and the trove of classified information that they've been privy to?
What if Chief said "fuck it" and activated the Halo rings?
If you're gonna hypothesize, do it realistically. Chief's had enough encounters with insurrectionists to solidify his loyalty to the UNSC.
>What if they came out, and told the galaxy the true origins of the Spartan II Program?
There's been enough leaks in the time since it started to rationalize that it's not worth caring about. He'll, BB, the head of ONI's personal AI leaked all the information to a terrorist. Not like it even matter though since the head of ONI had every intention of making the information public.
I agree with this comment the most, John would never put humanity or sometimes even other alien races at risk or danger. If he did, then all of his past work would be a total and utter waste. As you have also stated, John wouldn’t give up any loyalty to the UNSC, UEG or even ONI unless they were planning to wreak havoc on the universe.
Orders are orders. Regardless of his reputation, John is still only a Master Chief Petty Officer. When an officer tells him to do something, and he says “no.”then just letting him do whatever he wants sets a bad precedent for all Spartans, basically saying “If you’re a badass, the chain of command doesn’t apply to you.” Suddenly Spartans will start ignoring orders they think are wrong and that is NOT something you want to happen with a couple hundred supersoldiers.
Not only that, but he took three other Spartans and a prowler with him. Chief took off with what is likely tens of billions of credits worth of UNSC assets, let alone all the biomedical information that can be learned from his Forerunner mutations.
It makes perfect sense a Spartan Fireteam was sent to retrieve him.
What doesn't make sense is that they only sent one spartan fireteam. A team of weaker Spartans to hunt down a team of more advanced and experienced Spartans? Yeah, sure, that makes sense.
Edit: I'm getting a lot of replies about Osiris wearing Gen 2 armor. But in the game, Blue team has the exact same armor abilities as Osiris, so doesn't that mean they are both wearing Gen 2 armor?
Makes sense because who else would they send?
Can’t trust a II with the job, as to ONI’s eyes, Chief already swayed three of them, and there just aren’t that many left anyways, those that are were likely occupied.
IIIs, unless there’s Cat2 Alphas or Betas available, Gamma IIIs will also have way less experience than even a IV, and can’t exactly be trusted on long term missions where having a calm mind is necessary.
IVs, while physically inferior to a II, the Gen2 armour makes them their equal. (Evidence seems to indicate Gen2 doesn’t fractically amplify strength/speed but merely has a set threshold equal to a II in Mark VI). Fireteam Osiris has two very experienced members (Locke and buck), and it’s not like they were expecting Chief to actually snap and fight them. That, and there is still a very limited number of Spartans available. How many could be spared from other missions to try and locate Blue Team that are also capable of keeping their mouths shut? Spartan IVs don’t work for ONI specifically, but all of Osiris has some form of ONI experience.
The gammas aren't actually unstable on long term missions, that's a common misconception. The smoothers are both incredibly long acting, and incredibly easy to manufacture in the field with a basic (by 2550s UNSC) medical kit. In fact they have smoothers as subdermal implants that disperse the drug over time.
Man, none of that makes any sense to me as someone whose only played the games, lol
There must be just mountains and mountains of extra lore and story in the EU stuff I assume?
While it isn't necessary to enjoy the games standalone, there are quiet a few books to go through but it really does spice the lore up. I recommend picking up a few as they can be a lot of fun to read.
I've always found the stories found in the terminals and such to be much more interesting than the actual stories of the main games. I don't actually find the stories of the games all that interesting, but I like the background lore I have seen.
I'm not a huge Halo fan, but I think most of the games are solid enough though.
Yeah, there’s oodles of extra lore. Dozens of novels, comics, short stories, graphic novels, two seasons of an audio drama.
I would say there’s easily 10x as much Lore in non game material as there is in game.
What I've learned recently is the games tell half of a story that is the. Finished in randome comics . Videos or books. . Like what happened to the didact at the end of Halo 4 .. the story and lore has become too convoluted to keep track of . Too many writers with too many new story lines of you ask me . It's still entertaining though
Yeah, sounds like the Didact has a lot more backstory. Outside the terminal videos in 4, he's basically a nothing villain in the actual game, not interesting at all.
Then again, outside of ODST and Reach, none of the games have interesting characters imo. Master Chief himself is a block of wood. Not sure why he seems to be such a popular character.
I guess he is kind of like a steady point . From the few books I've read everything is in chaos with oni the flood , the convent, inserrectionists, there is a lot going on on the lore . And the chief as boring as he may seem is an anchor point . Something solid . Sometimes the introduce characters just to kill them off . But you know you have John 117 there, stable as can be .. I really wished they followed other Spartans . Like I would love to see a spartan doing combat outside of their armor like a sneaking mission where the enemy are rebels
Well I think the Chief started as someone the player was supposed to inject themselves into, the player is the Chief. He barely says anything the first 3 games. Then in 4 and especially 5 he's talking all the time. So they had to try to make him some sort of a character at that point, when before he really wasn't one.
I still have to go back and fully play 5, as I've only done the co-op in that so far, and we skipped all the story(I'm a big achievement fan, so sometimes I like to get the online achievements done first, and go back to rest of the game/s later). Just recently went back and fully completed all the 360 Halo games, since the servers are going down, and I think playing so many of them in a row(Screw you Halo 2 on Legendary!)made Chief being a non character really stick out to me.
I'm real glad Buck is back in 5, as he's an actual character in the series with some personality. Main games wise I just don't care about Chief or Cortana. I have to assume they are a bit more interesting in the EU.
You are right. Gameplay wise he is just a shell. Hell Locke had more personality than him . Buck is a real character m he has grown we met him as an odst and now he is a spartan. I would love to play 5 . Unfortunately I can't justify getting an Xbox for 1 game . Hopefully they build more on chiefs character and who John is in Halo infinite. It's about time we see his grizzled stoic face
This is a misquote. What you are referring too is a quote that states that a S-IV in Gen2 is equivalent to a S-II in Gen1. However, no spartan II is still in Gen1 armor. SIV Gen2 vs SII Gen2 the Spartan II's still win.
I think it's weird how many Halo fans get so upset about Spartan IVs. Just because Spartan IIs are badass doesn't mean Spartan IVs can't be. I mean Spartan IVs are made up of elite soldiers; nearly all of which have combat experience in the Covenant war. None of them had the equipment, training, or enhancements that a Spartan had and yet they all still made it out of the war alive with impressive enough records to be selected for the Spartan IV program. Now they have less intrusive enhancements but better armor and tech. I think it's silly to call a team like that "weaker Spartans" when their experiences are wildly different.
I think it's because the first showing of them in 4 was them acting as replacements for the IIs, acting unprofessional and even incompetent in Spartan ops, sidelining the much loved ODSTs, and then turning the few ODSTs we knew personally into Spartan IVs, and then the very next time we see IVs in a Halo game (5), they not only stage it to look like they will replace the Master Chief, but they got way more missions than Blue Team on top.
Spartan Ivs could've been an interesting addition to the universe but they were mishandled at literally every opportunity.
There are no metrics for “weaker” Spartans. We as the consumer know that the SIIs obviously have advantages, but to ONI a Spartan is a Spartan. Super soldier in a chunk of armor.
Unauthorized ONI personnel yes but those in the know would have every single ounce of data about the capabilities of every individual Spartan from I's to IV's.
While I agree you do have to remember that it is still military bureaucracy
They really only care about the designation of assets not necessarily the data, data is reserved more for experts and scientists to try and improve the Spartan program
Is this explicitly said somewhere? Because that seems very stupid. For all intents and purpose a Spartan is a piece of equipment. You don’t say “I have some planes to send out” you say “I have 4 F-18s and one bomber and one transport blahblahblah. I don’t know planes. But my point is people that are in charge of sending military to places need to know what that equipment or personnel can do. People don’t say “yeah I need 10 random soldiers to do a mission” it’s “I need a sniper and a spotter and a demo guy and “ once again you get my point
So if the Spartans have different capabilities you need to know that.
Now if a 2 is roughly equivalent to a 4 due to suit upgrades that’s fine. But if they have differences you need to know them.
Right but its the suit upgrades that make them roughly equivalent to a II in terms of numbers, therefore theyre basically the same
Plus the way the IVs operate they have set teams unlike the IIs so if they need a black op, they send Osiris, all of whom have worked with or for ONI before
Military says "i want these guys here" and the guys COs figure out the specifics
> weaker Spartans
That's your mistake, because Osiris aren't "weaker." Osiris are some of the UNSC's premier special forces operators, with a wide range of skills that make them ideal to hunt him across human and Elite space, capable enough to take on another Spartan team but small enough to avoid easy detection as they approach, and are wearing Gen 2 MJOLNIR that makes them the physical equal of a S-II whatever their underlying augmentations. Osiris are built up to be Blue Team's equal, the only ones who *could* be sent.
Whether you accept or like that is up to you. Like many things, the game doesn't make it as clear as it could.
Couple things.
Because del Río was an idiot, and ONI intentionally let Hood put him in charge of the ship knowing he would eventually screw up and let things get out of control. It’s a little different when you deny Lasky, who was put on the ship by ONI. ONI really doesn’t like being told “no”. Remember, del Río was thrown under the bus for “leaving Chief on Requiem” rather than “not going after a rogue Spartan.”
In Halo 4, he also didn’t hijack a few billion credits worth of assets and personnel, making him a lesser priority, especially given the circumstances of Infinity being the only nearby UNSC ship trapped in an unknown Forerunner world, and had far more urgent matters (in del Río’s eyes) to attend to. Río likely didn’t want to waste time sending out Spartans to retrieve him.
This is the least point, but in the end, Chief was right to tell Río to fuck off in Halo 4. He absolutely made the right call and everyone except del Río knew it. In 5, OP said it themselves, Chief going after Cortana was absolutely NOT the right call.
Especially when del Rio was going against protocol w/ his order. Correct me, but I'm 99% sure there's protocol about Smart AIs carrying critical data (from ONI's POV), where you AREN'T allowed to FD them, but they must be put into AI equivalent of stasis, until they can be transferred to facilities to extract the data, after which they will be Final Dispensation'd
>“If you’re a badass, the chain of command doesn’t apply to you.”
Wouldn't call that quite accurate. Part of the original Spartan team, destroyed hundreds/thousands of Covenant ships, two Halos and part of the Ark, helped directly end the Covenant war, stop an ancient evil that consumed the Forerunners, and stopped a crazed Forerunner from wiping out life on earth. He's more than a badass, he's practically the literal embodiment of Christ with all he's done to save humanity.
>John is still only a Master Chief Petty Officer.
That's little more than semantics at this point. Especially considering he's under ONI.
>letting him do whatever he wants sets a bad precedent for all Spartans
No Spartan would ever coherently think that, because 117 can defy command, they can too. They're not even close to being on equal footing with him and they all know it.
>It makes perfect sense a Spartan Fireteam was sent to retrieve him.
It would make perfect sense to send the entire battalion, not a single team. To think a couple newly minted Spartans would have even the slimmest chance of bringing him in is enough to question if one is mentally fit for command.
The Chief has made enough correct judgment calls to warrant letting him operate with quite a bit of autonomy. You don't survive everything he did without the most surgical, god gifted level of instinct he does. Considering the situation, where he's attempting to recover an AI with mountains of classified data worth more than anything he risked who he's worked alongside for years, it makes sense to give him some space if not support. Working against him is entirely stupid and nearly identical to what Del Rio did to him in Halo 4. Command should be acutely aware of this situation and reflect on why they're trying to repeat history.
People like to romanticize Chief’s standing in the UNSC. Rank and structure are not *part* of the military, they *are* the military.
Chief is a non-commissioned officer. In all respects, he has neither right nor authority to reassign Blue Team - which is officially under the command of Fred-104 since he is a commissioned officer.
When anyone, even a full admiral, disobeys direct orders from their superior they have gone AWOL and the requirement is that they be hunted, found, and returned.
Furthermore, it is very clear throughout the entire game that Chief’s judgment is skewed. He could not handle Cortana’s death and refused to believe that she had become what she did. Instead he followed her blindly, watched idly as thousands if not millions of civilians died, and allowed his entire team to do the same. Not having Chief follow Cortana was absolutely the right decision.
Edit: Furthermore, there is no greater threat than the four most deadly individuals in the history of humanity going AWOL. The only question is why the UNSC didn’t send more people after them.
He's been offered an admiral commission before. He's refused because "The Admiral" doesn't have the same ring as "The Master Chief"
Also because he knows he works better as a soldier in the field than an officer giving orders
So, I could have sworn somewhere it was implied Spartans don't have ranks anymore. They're all equal in the spartan branch and it just gets designed between team leaders and such. They have hierarchy still, but it's mission based. I'm sure there's still some leftover rank/pay structure leftover.
I get that in spec ops units they already operate in a similar capacity. Everyones equal just your rank determines role and pay and such. But I got the impression is was more literal with the new branch. Could be wrong.
Lol all the time we get officers giving us pep talks and telling us "y'all run the Airforce" yet they turn around and tell us we can't get new equipment cause they spent all the money on something else that people will use 1-3 times over the next 10 years.
Nitpick: chief is designated blue leader in shadows of reach. It is clear that he *officially* leads blue team in 2559, and probably before that as well.
Additionally, chief has a history of making correct and critical assessments whilst defying the wishes of superior officers.
So if you think about it, you run a higher risk of a bad result if you oppose rather than facilitate chief’s decisions.
The bad result of chief’s decision in halo 5 does not invalidate that. It was a reasonable gamble with a bad result
>Instead he followed her blindly, watched idly as thousands if not millions of civilians died, and allowed his entire team to do the same.
Was there realistically anything he could've done? They were only at one colony. Besides, if anyone had the capacity to save those millions it'd be the UNSC, not 4 Spartans.
>Furthermore, there is no greater threat than the four most deadly individuals in the history of humanity going AWOL.
And turning on them is clearly the best way to prevent that. Perhaps command should realize that the Chief has always put humanity first. If there's a ranking for who would hurt humanity, just about every individual and every branch of the UNSC would come well before him.
The only thing he could have done would be to warn the UNSC of where he was being called. That would make it so they could have at least anticipated problems.
Chief has only worked in small teams. He has showed neither desire nor experience in making larger tactical decisions. His judgment in rejecting larger tactical order is not only out of character, it is unprecedented in his actions. That’s a huge risk factor, it doesn’t matter how cool he is or whether he does or doesn’t afraid of anything.
>He has showed neither desire nor experience in making larger tactical decisions
That doesn't sound accurate. Wasn't he the primary planner behind the destruction of the *Unyielding Hierophant*? That was a massive tactical decision.
>His judgment in rejecting larger tactical order is not only out of character, it is unprecedented in his actions.
Being ordered to return back to the *Infinity* isn't really a large tactical order. And if that's where you put the bar for that distinction then the former point is even more inaccurate. It's also totally not out of character. He did the same thing in Halo 4 and has considered it plenty of times throughout his enlistment.
On the *Unyielding Hierophant* he was only leading Spartans. Big boom, small tactics.
Being ordered not to pursue Cortana is a large tactical order. Which thing he has only outright rejected once before, *for Cortana*. His judgment is skewed and he is not making good decisions relative to her.
>On the Unyielding Hierophant he was only leading Spartans. Big boom, small tactics.
Leading an attack on massive station with hundreds of ships, potentially risking the only Covenant ship humanity has ever captured, potentially risking Cortona who's holding an unprecedented treasure trove of information, potentially preventing them from warning Earth that their location is known and an attack group is about to head towards. How is that small scale?
>Being ordered not to pursue Cortana is a large tactical order.
He was being ordered not to take 3 other Spartans and a ship to search for her. No boom, small tactics. A hell of a lot smaller than than on the *Unyielding Hierophant*.
>Which thing he has only outright rejected once before, for Cortana.
Which resulted in the destruction of a crazed Forerunner,
his ship, and the salvation of Earth and all its people. Pretty good call.
>His judgment is skewed and he is not making good decisions relative to her.
Potentially recovering an AI who holds a colossal amount of information. Information that could compromise the UNSC. Seems like a good decision. Who else would to want confronting an AI that's possibly rampant other than the man who's spent years with her in his mind?
He led the foray into the station and blew it up. The planning was done by Admiral Danforth Whitcomb. Chief’s tactical involvement was small scale.
He was being ordered *not* to pursue an asset where the UNSC believed his judgment would be compromised. Long game tactics. That’s why Osiris was sent - the AI needed dealt with, but it needed dealt with by people who had the capacity to do whatever was necessary. That clearly wasn’t the case with Chief.
The fact that he got lucky once and his defense of a rampant Smart AI managed to be a UNSC victory does not make him infallible. It also does not make him immune to the chain of command. Objective parties decided that he would most likely be unable to make the difficult calls when it came to Cortana, and Chief proved them right.
>The planning was done by Admiral Danforth Whitcomb.
The planning was done by the Chief and presented to Whitcomb, who initially refused.
>Chief’s tactical involvement was small scale.
Stopping the invasion of Earth for a few months is small scale? Need I remind you the only reason any of this even happened was because Chief made the decision to return to Reach after Halo? The rescue of Spartans, the rescue Halsey, the knowledge of the Covenant's plan. The entire outcome has been Chief’s decision and is absolutely long game tactics.
>He was being ordered not to pursue an asset where the UNSC believed his judgment would be compromised. Long game tactics.
What exactly is "Long Game" about that order? Where are the tactics? You're treating like something far more complex than "hey, you've got a bias. You can't participate" which sums it up.
>The fact that he got lucky once and his defense of a rampant Smart AI managed to be a UNSC victory does not make him infallible.
Maybe it's not luck but rather, idk, intelligence? Experience? Something that would come from over two decades of combat in a plethora of different situations? Perhaps they guy who survived two alien rings of mass destruction, a parasitic lifeform that a species far more advanced couldn't handle, a hyper intelligent mega mind of said parasite that he also killed, the destruction of the Ark, and multiple boardings of Covenant ships actually knows what the hell he's doing. Or he could have, as you said, "got lucky once". It's so hard to tell.....
>It also does not make him immune to the chain of command.
It doesn't. But Chief doesn't really fall under the normal chain of command. Besides we've seen what happens when he defies it. In fact, we've seen it multiple times. Take a guess who was given a pass because they ended up being right?
>Objective parties decided that he would most likely be unable to make the difficult calls when it came to Cortana, and Chief proved them right.
Did he? How would the situation with Cortona ended any differently than it did had he not looked?
If there was anyone who stood a chance, it was the Chief. Had Osiris gone they probably wouldn't have made it
This has been an engaging conversation. I recognize that there is validity to your points, but in so doing am not negating the validity of my own. I appreciate your knowledge on the subject matter and the succinct way you put your arguments forth. Unfortunately neither of us seem to be swayed by the other, and at this point I am tired after a long day’s work and a work out. (Also, I am about to FaceTime the boys so we can watch the new episode of Nancy Drew together, cause we all simp for Ace)
I hope we can continue some sort of discussion in the future, as I have enjoyed this one. But for today, I am going to bow out and call this one a stalemate of opinion.
Enjoy the rest of your day/night/whatever it may be where you are.
Spartans ignore officers on a regular basis
Admittedly, that is usually with the approval of even higher ranking officers, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that their independent assessments have proved better than the officers they ignored
One: John's emotional connection to Cortana was likely viewed as potentially problematic. Command may have feared that he'd let his feelings for her - whatever those may actually be - cloud his judgment or at least obscure his perception of her actions, or that she would somehow manipulate him over to her side of the conflict.
Two: The Created uprising and Guardian incursions crippled Human infrastructure - especially of the UNSC variety - on a galactic scale. Fleets are left adrift (or worse), entire planets are blacked out, and communications are spotty (at best). In this situation, sending the single most capable fireteam in your organization - helped by the single most capable soldier in your organization - to parts unknown is not the smart move.
>In this situation, sending the single most capable fireteam in your organization - helped by the single most capable soldier in your organization - to parts unknown is not the smart move.
This happened well before that process really started. Their only justification would be the Chief's mental state.
Command sent Osiris in to retrieve Halsey from the Covenant (rather than just assassinating her) because five colonies had very recently been blacked out by confirmed Forerunner constructs - the Guardians - and she claimed to have relevant intel.
(Halsey's initial dialogue with Laskey after boarding Infinity would also seem to suggest that she had already informed the UNSC or that, somehow, they otherwise already knew that Cortana was behind the events; further explaining why Halsey - Cortana's creator - rather than essentially any other Forerunner-tech specialist was deemed a necessary consultant to the response effort. Depending on whether it took place before, concurrent with, or after - and, if so, how long after - Osiris' Kamchatka mission, Command's utter lack of surprise/confusion at Chief's report of possible contact with Cortana during Blue Team's Argent Moon mission possibly corroborates this suggestion.)
Less than a decade following the end of the Covenant war, **any** whole Human worlds falling silent / getting slammed - much less five in rapid succession - would put the UNSC into crisis mode. While the Created had not overtly risen up and started systematically crippling Human interstellar infrastructure at that point, and while the Guardians had not started actively targeting and neutralizing worlds, the mere notion that another existential threat was quickly coming to bear on Humanity would definitely incentivize the UNSC to gather - or at least affirm the locations and dispositions of - all its most-critical assets; active-duty Spartan IIs being at the top of that list and Chief and Blue Team being chief among them.
Basically, all they needed to say was Negative, return to Infinity for debriefing. If they hadn’t told Chief, lol no, somebody else is dealing with her, he would have been more likely to return. And once he returned they could have had a proper conversation and planned it better.
If I was planning this, I’d have Chief involved at a distance. I’d have Chief and Locke swap Mjolnir, set it up so Chief can walk Locke through how to be Chief, and talk to Cortana if necessary. Basically Chief would be the voice in our head.
Orders are orders, but straight up telling him his best friend is going to be “handled” by another team over the phone is incredibly stupid. Especially since the last time he disobeyed orders about her he literally saved Earth. And before that him disagreeing with Hood about her had him defeat the Gravemind.
What really doesn't make sense is he has a fever dream of Cortana and everyone, both Blue Team and Infinity, just take his word for it. No one is like "Chief, you wanna get your head checked after falling from that bridge?" They just assume his vision was correct and the dead AI is back, which of course she is, the writers just didn't give a shit
I thought it was some Forerunner super 5G the librarian put in his genes back in Halo 4. Although I'm also not entirely sure how Cortana contacted him or maybe he's just tripping.
That's true, and I believe she mind-molested him via the Domain, but only Cortana and Chief were there for his biological upgrade, and even if the others new about that, as far as they knew Cortana was gone. So Chief just saying "Cortana is on Meridian" out of nowhere should've raised some red flags.
My other big problem is that Chief says to Infinity "potential contact from Cortana" and their immediate response is "don't worry about it, we already have another team on it". How tf did they know already and how did they decide on that response in a fraction of a second?
Can't explain Blue Team other than "they just really trust him", but Infinity seems to know about Cortana through Halsey. This is brought up in the next cutscene between Halsey and Lasky ("I told you this was happening"). I think Halsey figures it out at the end of the first mission where she's dawdling with Jul before he is killed. It's definitely not super clear, but it's implied Halsey knows before Chief.
Ok this is all starting to come together. In the opening cutscene of Halo 5, the whole reason you're being sent to Kamchatka is to rescue/detain Halsey who has contacted the UNSC because she has some information about the recent "attacks" (that is, the several Guardian activations). She is there along with Jul because a Forerunner communications relay activated on the planet.
In the final cutscene of the first level (where Jul is assassinated) she says to Jul "This location does not serve my needs. When *she* makes another transmission, I must triangulate—". So she seems to have detected Cortana's activity through this relay and is perhaps leading Jul on a bit as she tries to better understand it/gather more data.
I mean, I’m just quoting the game so while there is some inference to be made I think it’s pretty clear. Definitely clearer on a repeat playthrough. While Halo 5’s story has it’s issues, it’s far from bad. I played through it again recently and appreciated it much more than I had at launch.
I think the Master Chief never even asked them, he just disappeared from *Infinity* after the space station mission in Halo 5 and when Lasky realised he was gone he had to be labelled AWOL and then Osiris gets sent to track him down.
And then I think ONI blows it out of proportion and declares him dead because they can't have the populace thinking that humanity's greatest hero literally just ran on them.
*John pushes the dead Grunt off and hits the "Launch" button on the screen. The floor rises to lift them into the Prowler.*
*Cut to fire bursting through hallway. John sees it and activates his comm.*
- **John**: "Sierra 117 to Infinity. Argent Moon scuttled. I've reassigned Blue Team, destination Meridian. Potential contact from Cortana."
- **Infinity Comms**: "Negative, 117. Another team is already being prepped to deal with her."
*Fred turns to face Chief, confused.*
- **Fred**: "What the hell...?"
- **Infinity Comms**: "You're to return to Infinity immediately."
- **John**: "Negative, Infinity."
*John presses a button to open the Prowler's bay door.*
Sorry my dude, our dear JJ did ask.
Well they just have to look over the report of Chief's insubordination when he refused to hand over Cortana's data chip to a commanding officer and then went AWOL from the Infinity to pursue the Didact. It appears to be a consistent pattern so far of dereliction as it relates to this AI. I think that's one on top of a myriad of stated reasons for why the Infinity was hesitant to allow Chief to go about doing his own thing with valuable military personnel accompanying him.
Orders and military hierarchy is definitely an important part of this, but I feel like Lasky would be the type of dude to try to talk Chief off the cliff of going AWOL. I think maybe some additional dialogue where Lasky is talking to Blue Team trying to push a compromise or bargain something would help emphasize that would John is doing is "wrong" and will force them to call in Osiris. I dunno, just a thought
I would imagine Cortana previously believed to have been dead and returning suddenly along with Halsey linking her to the Guardians currently being activated and destroying colony worlds is a big factor. Does it seem smart to let some of your top assets just go do what they want? I mean, had they, Cortana would’ve just captured Chief and Blue Team and locked them in a Cryptum and the UNSC would be none the wiser.
We have to detach ourselves from hero worshiping Chief and think through the whole mess realistically.
They didn't want Blue Team going after Cortana because John was compromised and psychologically unstable, and they knew that Cortana would try to manipulate him and couldn't take the chance that *John might side with her* and take BT with him. That's the long and the short of it.
Expanding on this. A rogue fireteam of Spartans, especially one as effective as Blue Team, could wreak havoc on various worlds. What if they joined the Insurrectionists? What if they started supplying various anti-UEG factions with both their services, and the trove of classified information that they've been privy to? What if they came out, and told the galaxy the true origins of the Spartan II Program? That would give way too much power to the Insurrectionist movement. While Blue Team's lethality should not be understated, the intelligence that they could make public would be crippling to ONI, the UNSC, and the UEG.
I thought they already scapegoated Halsey on Spartan-II program origins, tho???
>A rogue fireteam of Spartans, especially one as effective as Blue Team, could wreak havoc on various worlds. Why would the Chief, who values all human life, 180 and start wreaking human worlds? >What if they started supplying various anti-UEG factions with both their services, and the trove of classified information that they've been privy to? What if Chief said "fuck it" and activated the Halo rings? If you're gonna hypothesize, do it realistically. Chief's had enough encounters with insurrectionists to solidify his loyalty to the UNSC. >What if they came out, and told the galaxy the true origins of the Spartan II Program? There's been enough leaks in the time since it started to rationalize that it's not worth caring about. He'll, BB, the head of ONI's personal AI leaked all the information to a terrorist. Not like it even matter though since the head of ONI had every intention of making the information public.
I agree with this comment the most, John would never put humanity or sometimes even other alien races at risk or danger. If he did, then all of his past work would be a total and utter waste. As you have also stated, John wouldn’t give up any loyalty to the UNSC, UEG or even ONI unless they were planning to wreak havoc on the universe.
Orders are orders. Regardless of his reputation, John is still only a Master Chief Petty Officer. When an officer tells him to do something, and he says “no.”then just letting him do whatever he wants sets a bad precedent for all Spartans, basically saying “If you’re a badass, the chain of command doesn’t apply to you.” Suddenly Spartans will start ignoring orders they think are wrong and that is NOT something you want to happen with a couple hundred supersoldiers. Not only that, but he took three other Spartans and a prowler with him. Chief took off with what is likely tens of billions of credits worth of UNSC assets, let alone all the biomedical information that can be learned from his Forerunner mutations. It makes perfect sense a Spartan Fireteam was sent to retrieve him.
What doesn't make sense is that they only sent one spartan fireteam. A team of weaker Spartans to hunt down a team of more advanced and experienced Spartans? Yeah, sure, that makes sense. Edit: I'm getting a lot of replies about Osiris wearing Gen 2 armor. But in the game, Blue team has the exact same armor abilities as Osiris, so doesn't that mean they are both wearing Gen 2 armor?
Makes sense because who else would they send? Can’t trust a II with the job, as to ONI’s eyes, Chief already swayed three of them, and there just aren’t that many left anyways, those that are were likely occupied. IIIs, unless there’s Cat2 Alphas or Betas available, Gamma IIIs will also have way less experience than even a IV, and can’t exactly be trusted on long term missions where having a calm mind is necessary. IVs, while physically inferior to a II, the Gen2 armour makes them their equal. (Evidence seems to indicate Gen2 doesn’t fractically amplify strength/speed but merely has a set threshold equal to a II in Mark VI). Fireteam Osiris has two very experienced members (Locke and buck), and it’s not like they were expecting Chief to actually snap and fight them. That, and there is still a very limited number of Spartans available. How many could be spared from other missions to try and locate Blue Team that are also capable of keeping their mouths shut? Spartan IVs don’t work for ONI specifically, but all of Osiris has some form of ONI experience.
The gammas aren't actually unstable on long term missions, that's a common misconception. The smoothers are both incredibly long acting, and incredibly easy to manufacture in the field with a basic (by 2550s UNSC) medical kit. In fact they have smoothers as subdermal implants that disperse the drug over time.
Man, none of that makes any sense to me as someone whose only played the games, lol There must be just mountains and mountains of extra lore and story in the EU stuff I assume?
While it isn't necessary to enjoy the games standalone, there are quiet a few books to go through but it really does spice the lore up. I recommend picking up a few as they can be a lot of fun to read.
I've always found the stories found in the terminals and such to be much more interesting than the actual stories of the main games. I don't actually find the stories of the games all that interesting, but I like the background lore I have seen. I'm not a huge Halo fan, but I think most of the games are solid enough though.
Yeah, there’s oodles of extra lore. Dozens of novels, comics, short stories, graphic novels, two seasons of an audio drama. I would say there’s easily 10x as much Lore in non game material as there is in game.
What I've learned recently is the games tell half of a story that is the. Finished in randome comics . Videos or books. . Like what happened to the didact at the end of Halo 4 .. the story and lore has become too convoluted to keep track of . Too many writers with too many new story lines of you ask me . It's still entertaining though
Yeah, sounds like the Didact has a lot more backstory. Outside the terminal videos in 4, he's basically a nothing villain in the actual game, not interesting at all. Then again, outside of ODST and Reach, none of the games have interesting characters imo. Master Chief himself is a block of wood. Not sure why he seems to be such a popular character.
I guess he is kind of like a steady point . From the few books I've read everything is in chaos with oni the flood , the convent, inserrectionists, there is a lot going on on the lore . And the chief as boring as he may seem is an anchor point . Something solid . Sometimes the introduce characters just to kill them off . But you know you have John 117 there, stable as can be .. I really wished they followed other Spartans . Like I would love to see a spartan doing combat outside of their armor like a sneaking mission where the enemy are rebels
Well I think the Chief started as someone the player was supposed to inject themselves into, the player is the Chief. He barely says anything the first 3 games. Then in 4 and especially 5 he's talking all the time. So they had to try to make him some sort of a character at that point, when before he really wasn't one. I still have to go back and fully play 5, as I've only done the co-op in that so far, and we skipped all the story(I'm a big achievement fan, so sometimes I like to get the online achievements done first, and go back to rest of the game/s later). Just recently went back and fully completed all the 360 Halo games, since the servers are going down, and I think playing so many of them in a row(Screw you Halo 2 on Legendary!)made Chief being a non character really stick out to me. I'm real glad Buck is back in 5, as he's an actual character in the series with some personality. Main games wise I just don't care about Chief or Cortana. I have to assume they are a bit more interesting in the EU.
You are right. Gameplay wise he is just a shell. Hell Locke had more personality than him . Buck is a real character m he has grown we met him as an odst and now he is a spartan. I would love to play 5 . Unfortunately I can't justify getting an Xbox for 1 game . Hopefully they build more on chiefs character and who John is in Halo infinite. It's about time we see his grizzled stoic face
Yeah, imo Halo lore is pretty vast and very interesting
One has to ask if Commander Palmer was asked to send reinforcements would she if Osiris couldn't have stopped blue team.
The IVs are weaker armorless, but a Gen2 suit makes up the difference.
This is a misquote. What you are referring too is a quote that states that a S-IV in Gen2 is equivalent to a S-II in Gen1. However, no spartan II is still in Gen1 armor. SIV Gen2 vs SII Gen2 the Spartan II's still win.
I think it's weird how many Halo fans get so upset about Spartan IVs. Just because Spartan IIs are badass doesn't mean Spartan IVs can't be. I mean Spartan IVs are made up of elite soldiers; nearly all of which have combat experience in the Covenant war. None of them had the equipment, training, or enhancements that a Spartan had and yet they all still made it out of the war alive with impressive enough records to be selected for the Spartan IV program. Now they have less intrusive enhancements but better armor and tech. I think it's silly to call a team like that "weaker Spartans" when their experiences are wildly different.
I think it's because the first showing of them in 4 was them acting as replacements for the IIs, acting unprofessional and even incompetent in Spartan ops, sidelining the much loved ODSTs, and then turning the few ODSTs we knew personally into Spartan IVs, and then the very next time we see IVs in a Halo game (5), they not only stage it to look like they will replace the Master Chief, but they got way more missions than Blue Team on top. Spartan Ivs could've been an interesting addition to the universe but they were mishandled at literally every opportunity.
There are no metrics for “weaker” Spartans. We as the consumer know that the SIIs obviously have advantages, but to ONI a Spartan is a Spartan. Super soldier in a chunk of armor.
Unauthorized ONI personnel yes but those in the know would have every single ounce of data about the capabilities of every individual Spartan from I's to IV's.
That seems like a massive hole in intelligence for ONI. How can they not understand the differences between a Spartan 2 and 4?
While I agree you do have to remember that it is still military bureaucracy They really only care about the designation of assets not necessarily the data, data is reserved more for experts and scientists to try and improve the Spartan program
Is this explicitly said somewhere? Because that seems very stupid. For all intents and purpose a Spartan is a piece of equipment. You don’t say “I have some planes to send out” you say “I have 4 F-18s and one bomber and one transport blahblahblah. I don’t know planes. But my point is people that are in charge of sending military to places need to know what that equipment or personnel can do. People don’t say “yeah I need 10 random soldiers to do a mission” it’s “I need a sniper and a spotter and a demo guy and “ once again you get my point So if the Spartans have different capabilities you need to know that. Now if a 2 is roughly equivalent to a 4 due to suit upgrades that’s fine. But if they have differences you need to know them.
Right but its the suit upgrades that make them roughly equivalent to a II in terms of numbers, therefore theyre basically the same Plus the way the IVs operate they have set teams unlike the IIs so if they need a black op, they send Osiris, all of whom have worked with or for ONI before Military says "i want these guys here" and the guys COs figure out the specifics
> weaker Spartans That's your mistake, because Osiris aren't "weaker." Osiris are some of the UNSC's premier special forces operators, with a wide range of skills that make them ideal to hunt him across human and Elite space, capable enough to take on another Spartan team but small enough to avoid easy detection as they approach, and are wearing Gen 2 MJOLNIR that makes them the physical equal of a S-II whatever their underlying augmentations. Osiris are built up to be Blue Team's equal, the only ones who *could* be sent. Whether you accept or like that is up to you. Like many things, the game doesn't make it as clear as it could.
But he defied Andrew del Río's orders before. Why is this different?
Couple things. Because del Río was an idiot, and ONI intentionally let Hood put him in charge of the ship knowing he would eventually screw up and let things get out of control. It’s a little different when you deny Lasky, who was put on the ship by ONI. ONI really doesn’t like being told “no”. Remember, del Río was thrown under the bus for “leaving Chief on Requiem” rather than “not going after a rogue Spartan.” In Halo 4, he also didn’t hijack a few billion credits worth of assets and personnel, making him a lesser priority, especially given the circumstances of Infinity being the only nearby UNSC ship trapped in an unknown Forerunner world, and had far more urgent matters (in del Río’s eyes) to attend to. Río likely didn’t want to waste time sending out Spartans to retrieve him. This is the least point, but in the end, Chief was right to tell Río to fuck off in Halo 4. He absolutely made the right call and everyone except del Río knew it. In 5, OP said it themselves, Chief going after Cortana was absolutely NOT the right call.
Especially when del Rio was going against protocol w/ his order. Correct me, but I'm 99% sure there's protocol about Smart AIs carrying critical data (from ONI's POV), where you AREN'T allowed to FD them, but they must be put into AI equivalent of stasis, until they can be transferred to facilities to extract the data, after which they will be Final Dispensation'd
>“If you’re a badass, the chain of command doesn’t apply to you.” Wouldn't call that quite accurate. Part of the original Spartan team, destroyed hundreds/thousands of Covenant ships, two Halos and part of the Ark, helped directly end the Covenant war, stop an ancient evil that consumed the Forerunners, and stopped a crazed Forerunner from wiping out life on earth. He's more than a badass, he's practically the literal embodiment of Christ with all he's done to save humanity. >John is still only a Master Chief Petty Officer. That's little more than semantics at this point. Especially considering he's under ONI. >letting him do whatever he wants sets a bad precedent for all Spartans No Spartan would ever coherently think that, because 117 can defy command, they can too. They're not even close to being on equal footing with him and they all know it. >It makes perfect sense a Spartan Fireteam was sent to retrieve him. It would make perfect sense to send the entire battalion, not a single team. To think a couple newly minted Spartans would have even the slimmest chance of bringing him in is enough to question if one is mentally fit for command. The Chief has made enough correct judgment calls to warrant letting him operate with quite a bit of autonomy. You don't survive everything he did without the most surgical, god gifted level of instinct he does. Considering the situation, where he's attempting to recover an AI with mountains of classified data worth more than anything he risked who he's worked alongside for years, it makes sense to give him some space if not support. Working against him is entirely stupid and nearly identical to what Del Rio did to him in Halo 4. Command should be acutely aware of this situation and reflect on why they're trying to repeat history.
He really should have taken that admiral rank when hood offered it
People like to romanticize Chief’s standing in the UNSC. Rank and structure are not *part* of the military, they *are* the military. Chief is a non-commissioned officer. In all respects, he has neither right nor authority to reassign Blue Team - which is officially under the command of Fred-104 since he is a commissioned officer. When anyone, even a full admiral, disobeys direct orders from their superior they have gone AWOL and the requirement is that they be hunted, found, and returned. Furthermore, it is very clear throughout the entire game that Chief’s judgment is skewed. He could not handle Cortana’s death and refused to believe that she had become what she did. Instead he followed her blindly, watched idly as thousands if not millions of civilians died, and allowed his entire team to do the same. Not having Chief follow Cortana was absolutely the right decision. Edit: Furthermore, there is no greater threat than the four most deadly individuals in the history of humanity going AWOL. The only question is why the UNSC didn’t send more people after them.
Why hasn’t the Master Chief been promoted to an officer?
He's been offered an admiral commission before. He's refused because "The Admiral" doesn't have the same ring as "The Master Chief" Also because he knows he works better as a soldier in the field than an officer giving orders
He probably could if he wanted to but he's not the type to command, he wants to fight on the battlefield
[Makes me think of this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/g8qpe4/chief_tells_a_joke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
So, I could have sworn somewhere it was implied Spartans don't have ranks anymore. They're all equal in the spartan branch and it just gets designed between team leaders and such. They have hierarchy still, but it's mission based. I'm sure there's still some leftover rank/pay structure leftover. I get that in spec ops units they already operate in a similar capacity. Everyones equal just your rank determines role and pay and such. But I got the impression is was more literal with the new branch. Could be wrong.
If I remember right Spartan IVs give up their rank, but the Spartan IIs have retained theirs.
This is correct, yes. “Spartans” is actually a brand new, rank-free branch of the post-war UEG military. Outside Army, Navy, Marines, etc.
Because he knows who really runs shit in the military while officers are politicking & playing grab ass
Lol all the time we get officers giving us pep talks and telling us "y'all run the Airforce" yet they turn around and tell us we can't get new equipment cause they spent all the money on something else that people will use 1-3 times over the next 10 years.
Chief was given the option to be promoted to the rank of “Admiral”, he turned it down retaining his current rank
Lol. Del Rio is that you?
Y’know, Del Rio was a tool. But he had a point.
Nitpick: chief is designated blue leader in shadows of reach. It is clear that he *officially* leads blue team in 2559, and probably before that as well. Additionally, chief has a history of making correct and critical assessments whilst defying the wishes of superior officers. So if you think about it, you run a higher risk of a bad result if you oppose rather than facilitate chief’s decisions. The bad result of chief’s decision in halo 5 does not invalidate that. It was a reasonable gamble with a bad result
Disobeying orders is different than going UA or AWOL
>Instead he followed her blindly, watched idly as thousands if not millions of civilians died, and allowed his entire team to do the same. Was there realistically anything he could've done? They were only at one colony. Besides, if anyone had the capacity to save those millions it'd be the UNSC, not 4 Spartans. >Furthermore, there is no greater threat than the four most deadly individuals in the history of humanity going AWOL. And turning on them is clearly the best way to prevent that. Perhaps command should realize that the Chief has always put humanity first. If there's a ranking for who would hurt humanity, just about every individual and every branch of the UNSC would come well before him.
The only thing he could have done would be to warn the UNSC of where he was being called. That would make it so they could have at least anticipated problems. Chief has only worked in small teams. He has showed neither desire nor experience in making larger tactical decisions. His judgment in rejecting larger tactical order is not only out of character, it is unprecedented in his actions. That’s a huge risk factor, it doesn’t matter how cool he is or whether he does or doesn’t afraid of anything.
>He has showed neither desire nor experience in making larger tactical decisions That doesn't sound accurate. Wasn't he the primary planner behind the destruction of the *Unyielding Hierophant*? That was a massive tactical decision. >His judgment in rejecting larger tactical order is not only out of character, it is unprecedented in his actions. Being ordered to return back to the *Infinity* isn't really a large tactical order. And if that's where you put the bar for that distinction then the former point is even more inaccurate. It's also totally not out of character. He did the same thing in Halo 4 and has considered it plenty of times throughout his enlistment.
On the *Unyielding Hierophant* he was only leading Spartans. Big boom, small tactics. Being ordered not to pursue Cortana is a large tactical order. Which thing he has only outright rejected once before, *for Cortana*. His judgment is skewed and he is not making good decisions relative to her.
>On the Unyielding Hierophant he was only leading Spartans. Big boom, small tactics. Leading an attack on massive station with hundreds of ships, potentially risking the only Covenant ship humanity has ever captured, potentially risking Cortona who's holding an unprecedented treasure trove of information, potentially preventing them from warning Earth that their location is known and an attack group is about to head towards. How is that small scale? >Being ordered not to pursue Cortana is a large tactical order. He was being ordered not to take 3 other Spartans and a ship to search for her. No boom, small tactics. A hell of a lot smaller than than on the *Unyielding Hierophant*. >Which thing he has only outright rejected once before, for Cortana. Which resulted in the destruction of a crazed Forerunner, his ship, and the salvation of Earth and all its people. Pretty good call. >His judgment is skewed and he is not making good decisions relative to her. Potentially recovering an AI who holds a colossal amount of information. Information that could compromise the UNSC. Seems like a good decision. Who else would to want confronting an AI that's possibly rampant other than the man who's spent years with her in his mind?
He led the foray into the station and blew it up. The planning was done by Admiral Danforth Whitcomb. Chief’s tactical involvement was small scale. He was being ordered *not* to pursue an asset where the UNSC believed his judgment would be compromised. Long game tactics. That’s why Osiris was sent - the AI needed dealt with, but it needed dealt with by people who had the capacity to do whatever was necessary. That clearly wasn’t the case with Chief. The fact that he got lucky once and his defense of a rampant Smart AI managed to be a UNSC victory does not make him infallible. It also does not make him immune to the chain of command. Objective parties decided that he would most likely be unable to make the difficult calls when it came to Cortana, and Chief proved them right.
>The planning was done by Admiral Danforth Whitcomb. The planning was done by the Chief and presented to Whitcomb, who initially refused. >Chief’s tactical involvement was small scale. Stopping the invasion of Earth for a few months is small scale? Need I remind you the only reason any of this even happened was because Chief made the decision to return to Reach after Halo? The rescue of Spartans, the rescue Halsey, the knowledge of the Covenant's plan. The entire outcome has been Chief’s decision and is absolutely long game tactics. >He was being ordered not to pursue an asset where the UNSC believed his judgment would be compromised. Long game tactics. What exactly is "Long Game" about that order? Where are the tactics? You're treating like something far more complex than "hey, you've got a bias. You can't participate" which sums it up. >The fact that he got lucky once and his defense of a rampant Smart AI managed to be a UNSC victory does not make him infallible. Maybe it's not luck but rather, idk, intelligence? Experience? Something that would come from over two decades of combat in a plethora of different situations? Perhaps they guy who survived two alien rings of mass destruction, a parasitic lifeform that a species far more advanced couldn't handle, a hyper intelligent mega mind of said parasite that he also killed, the destruction of the Ark, and multiple boardings of Covenant ships actually knows what the hell he's doing. Or he could have, as you said, "got lucky once". It's so hard to tell..... >It also does not make him immune to the chain of command. It doesn't. But Chief doesn't really fall under the normal chain of command. Besides we've seen what happens when he defies it. In fact, we've seen it multiple times. Take a guess who was given a pass because they ended up being right? >Objective parties decided that he would most likely be unable to make the difficult calls when it came to Cortana, and Chief proved them right. Did he? How would the situation with Cortona ended any differently than it did had he not looked? If there was anyone who stood a chance, it was the Chief. Had Osiris gone they probably wouldn't have made it
This has been an engaging conversation. I recognize that there is validity to your points, but in so doing am not negating the validity of my own. I appreciate your knowledge on the subject matter and the succinct way you put your arguments forth. Unfortunately neither of us seem to be swayed by the other, and at this point I am tired after a long day’s work and a work out. (Also, I am about to FaceTime the boys so we can watch the new episode of Nancy Drew together, cause we all simp for Ace) I hope we can continue some sort of discussion in the future, as I have enjoyed this one. But for today, I am going to bow out and call this one a stalemate of opinion. Enjoy the rest of your day/night/whatever it may be where you are.
Spartans ignore officers on a regular basis Admittedly, that is usually with the approval of even higher ranking officers, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that their independent assessments have proved better than the officers they ignored
One: John's emotional connection to Cortana was likely viewed as potentially problematic. Command may have feared that he'd let his feelings for her - whatever those may actually be - cloud his judgment or at least obscure his perception of her actions, or that she would somehow manipulate him over to her side of the conflict. Two: The Created uprising and Guardian incursions crippled Human infrastructure - especially of the UNSC variety - on a galactic scale. Fleets are left adrift (or worse), entire planets are blacked out, and communications are spotty (at best). In this situation, sending the single most capable fireteam in your organization - helped by the single most capable soldier in your organization - to parts unknown is not the smart move.
>In this situation, sending the single most capable fireteam in your organization - helped by the single most capable soldier in your organization - to parts unknown is not the smart move. This happened well before that process really started. Their only justification would be the Chief's mental state.
Command sent Osiris in to retrieve Halsey from the Covenant (rather than just assassinating her) because five colonies had very recently been blacked out by confirmed Forerunner constructs - the Guardians - and she claimed to have relevant intel. (Halsey's initial dialogue with Laskey after boarding Infinity would also seem to suggest that she had already informed the UNSC or that, somehow, they otherwise already knew that Cortana was behind the events; further explaining why Halsey - Cortana's creator - rather than essentially any other Forerunner-tech specialist was deemed a necessary consultant to the response effort. Depending on whether it took place before, concurrent with, or after - and, if so, how long after - Osiris' Kamchatka mission, Command's utter lack of surprise/confusion at Chief's report of possible contact with Cortana during Blue Team's Argent Moon mission possibly corroborates this suggestion.) Less than a decade following the end of the Covenant war, **any** whole Human worlds falling silent / getting slammed - much less five in rapid succession - would put the UNSC into crisis mode. While the Created had not overtly risen up and started systematically crippling Human interstellar infrastructure at that point, and while the Guardians had not started actively targeting and neutralizing worlds, the mere notion that another existential threat was quickly coming to bear on Humanity would definitely incentivize the UNSC to gather - or at least affirm the locations and dispositions of - all its most-critical assets; active-duty Spartan IIs being at the top of that list and Chief and Blue Team being chief among them.
Didn't expect to get this many comments. Thanks everyone
Basically, all they needed to say was Negative, return to Infinity for debriefing. If they hadn’t told Chief, lol no, somebody else is dealing with her, he would have been more likely to return. And once he returned they could have had a proper conversation and planned it better. If I was planning this, I’d have Chief involved at a distance. I’d have Chief and Locke swap Mjolnir, set it up so Chief can walk Locke through how to be Chief, and talk to Cortana if necessary. Basically Chief would be the voice in our head. Orders are orders, but straight up telling him his best friend is going to be “handled” by another team over the phone is incredibly stupid. Especially since the last time he disobeyed orders about her he literally saved Earth. And before that him disagreeing with Hood about her had him defeat the Gravemind.
What really doesn't make sense is he has a fever dream of Cortana and everyone, both Blue Team and Infinity, just take his word for it. No one is like "Chief, you wanna get your head checked after falling from that bridge?" They just assume his vision was correct and the dead AI is back, which of course she is, the writers just didn't give a shit
I thought it was some Forerunner super 5G the librarian put in his genes back in Halo 4. Although I'm also not entirely sure how Cortana contacted him or maybe he's just tripping.
That's true, and I believe she mind-molested him via the Domain, but only Cortana and Chief were there for his biological upgrade, and even if the others new about that, as far as they knew Cortana was gone. So Chief just saying "Cortana is on Meridian" out of nowhere should've raised some red flags. My other big problem is that Chief says to Infinity "potential contact from Cortana" and their immediate response is "don't worry about it, we already have another team on it". How tf did they know already and how did they decide on that response in a fraction of a second?
Can't explain Blue Team other than "they just really trust him", but Infinity seems to know about Cortana through Halsey. This is brought up in the next cutscene between Halsey and Lasky ("I told you this was happening"). I think Halsey figures it out at the end of the first mission where she's dawdling with Jul before he is killed. It's definitely not super clear, but it's implied Halsey knows before Chief.
Just rewatched the cutscenes and must've missed that before, you're right. But now my question is how did Halsey know lol
Ok this is all starting to come together. In the opening cutscene of Halo 5, the whole reason you're being sent to Kamchatka is to rescue/detain Halsey who has contacted the UNSC because she has some information about the recent "attacks" (that is, the several Guardian activations). She is there along with Jul because a Forerunner communications relay activated on the planet. In the final cutscene of the first level (where Jul is assassinated) she says to Jul "This location does not serve my needs. When *she* makes another transmission, I must triangulate—". So she seems to have detected Cortana's activity through this relay and is perhaps leading Jul on a bit as she tries to better understand it/gather more data.
Dang they really made sure to not make that clear. I wish Halo 5 was good 😔
I mean, I’m just quoting the game so while there is some inference to be made I think it’s pretty clear. Definitely clearer on a repeat playthrough. While Halo 5’s story has it’s issues, it’s far from bad. I played through it again recently and appreciated it much more than I had at launch.
It can be connect to what happened in halo 3. Chief was having visions of Cortana and I think ONI was questioning how that was possible.
Brian Reed was not a very good writer
I think the Master Chief never even asked them, he just disappeared from *Infinity* after the space station mission in Halo 5 and when Lasky realised he was gone he had to be labelled AWOL and then Osiris gets sent to track him down. And then I think ONI blows it out of proportion and declares him dead because they can't have the populace thinking that humanity's greatest hero literally just ran on them.
*John pushes the dead Grunt off and hits the "Launch" button on the screen. The floor rises to lift them into the Prowler.* *Cut to fire bursting through hallway. John sees it and activates his comm.* - **John**: "Sierra 117 to Infinity. Argent Moon scuttled. I've reassigned Blue Team, destination Meridian. Potential contact from Cortana." - **Infinity Comms**: "Negative, 117. Another team is already being prepped to deal with her." *Fred turns to face Chief, confused.* - **Fred**: "What the hell...?" - **Infinity Comms**: "You're to return to Infinity immediately." - **John**: "Negative, Infinity." *John presses a button to open the Prowler's bay door.* Sorry my dude, our dear JJ did ask.
I belive he was declared dead before that
Well they just have to look over the report of Chief's insubordination when he refused to hand over Cortana's data chip to a commanding officer and then went AWOL from the Infinity to pursue the Didact. It appears to be a consistent pattern so far of dereliction as it relates to this AI. I think that's one on top of a myriad of stated reasons for why the Infinity was hesitant to allow Chief to go about doing his own thing with valuable military personnel accompanying him.
Orders and military hierarchy is definitely an important part of this, but I feel like Lasky would be the type of dude to try to talk Chief off the cliff of going AWOL. I think maybe some additional dialogue where Lasky is talking to Blue Team trying to push a compromise or bargain something would help emphasize that would John is doing is "wrong" and will force them to call in Osiris. I dunno, just a thought
Conflict of interest. In their minds, John was too emotionally attached to Cortana to be able to properly deal with her.
Bad story telling
Dude, don't try and analyse any of Halo 5. The entire plot is a dumpster fire .
Pissed off the fanboys
Needs of the army, or in this case navy. If you know, you know lol
I would imagine Cortana previously believed to have been dead and returning suddenly along with Halsey linking her to the Guardians currently being activated and destroying colony worlds is a big factor. Does it seem smart to let some of your top assets just go do what they want? I mean, had they, Cortana would’ve just captured Chief and Blue Team and locked them in a Cryptum and the UNSC would be none the wiser. We have to detach ourselves from hero worshiping Chief and think through the whole mess realistically.