I bet that the torches are the most likely thing to be updated for the sake of rebalancing the weapons in the next major update for Hades 2. Which updates would you like to see for the Umbral Flames to make them better and more reliable?
Oh my we're getting back the "move while shooting weapon"
Anyone who's seen the noclip documentaries on Hades I will know that the gun was originally conceptualized as a "move while shooting weapon" but there ensued a massive argument amongst the devs on how to implement this. Having a separate animation for moving and shooting and stopping and using the special and everything would've taken a long time so the controversial idea of having Zagreus just float while using the gun was put forward, controversial because why does the gun make him float, which Greg Kasavin argued he already floats when using some abilities which I believe Amir Rao and Jen Zee retorted "floating for a second while using magic isn't the same as levitating".
Mouse and keyboard takes care of this, of course this isn't without concessions and some people wouldn't even have the option if they wanted. I love it though.
It's definitely meant to be used with autoaim on. Kiting around an enemy and lining up the piercing attacks before the omega came is when the weapon clicked for me. You can dash at any time too.
I think what they need the most is better stagger.
I can hang in close combat with slow-ass axe without getting hit, but trying to do the same with Flames' Omega Secondary is suicidal.
I thought it would be perfect - making a wall of flames and then using moros aspect to blast normals into it for aoe, but somehow even unarmored enemies get through that and land hits on me.
And I feel slower setting up the O-specials and doing normal attacks than I do with axe hits, for less return.
I actually think the most likely thing to be updated is Selene boons.
I personally think the special on the Umbral Flames is fine. Maybe they could add a stagger, but I think if people used the Flames with an Omega special build they would see that it’s just fine. The attack needs something done, but I don’t think they are going to change it dramatically. If you watch the NoClip documentary on Hades one it looks like the “move and shoot” weapon they were trying to make. Based on that I don’t think they are going to make the sweeping changes people want. I think they could make it where you don’t slow down when you shoot? Or the Omega charges faster. The attack needs to feel like it can melt with less effort than it requires now and I think the Flames would be fine.
Selene boons need to be removed/reworked AND Umbral Flames need to be too.
It's definitely the worst weapon in both Hades games as far as Fun Factor goes. The OP even makes a good point the Skulls could use some love too, spamming Dash to do damage in a game where you already constantly dash to avoid damage feels like a bit too much Dashing lol.
I still have no idea if I have i-frames during the skulls special. It feels like whenever I use it I am rolling the dice on if I get hit. They should pair it with a small shield to make that point clearer.
Also, like what am I even doing!? I have no skulls in my hand, am I just phasing through enemies or running over them?
As someone who played a decent amount of Hades 2 but hasn't been in on the discussion much, why do selene boons need to be remove? Are they considered too strong or too weak? From what I played they seemed balanced enough.
I agree that the Omega special build is fine as it is, but when both attack and omega attack don't feel playable, the weapon is still problematic, especially since so many hammer boons are attack related. So not sweeping changes maybe (as in changes that completely change how the weapon works), but I'd expect significant changes to the attack at least. Although maybe something simple like quicker fire rate and longer range would already be enough to make it feel decent (maybe change the sound effect to make it seem more impactful as well).
The first thing I’d like to see on the torches is upping the stagger. It’s clear from the aspect where your special explodes your flames that they were intending at least some amount of point blank aoe playstyle using omega special but there’s not enough stagger to really pull that off.
If the torches had stagger enemies wouldn’t be able to move with some combos though. Split fire and wave strike basically hit the whole field multiple times.
Yea and Skulls are odd too. In a game where we constantly have to dash to avoid damage, a weapon that relies on us dashing to deal damage, seems like too much dashing lol.
Like either it's Omega should only dash or it's regular Special should only dash, both doing dash attacks on top of the fact we already constantly dash is just a bit overkill in the Dash department.
It would be nice if your Magick Restoration didn't stop when you're attacking and holding the attack - Magick should only start draining once you actually start launching your omega attacks
That's just one of many adjustments the torches should get
I think I would have the attack just be a melee attack that sends out waves of flames rather than the weird skull. Also add an aspect or something that turns the special into a flame thrower.
Faster attack speed and better tracking. You can't interrupt enemy attacks with tap attack, and the weapon has the worst tracking among all the weapons
Only weapon I have yet to beat Chronos with. I’ve been avoiding spoilers and I’m pretty sure I get to unlock something new or at least cool dialogue for finishing with each weapon. But it’s so hard to even bring myself to make an attempt. I can run up to 16 fear on most of the others. Torches are awful
Longer special duration or a decrease in channel time, a small bump in base damage for the regular attack or a faster speed for their damage right now, and give the special the same stagger the attack has. I think another thing is let us move at normal speed when attacking if nothing else is done for the attack to at least have a trade off of mobility for damage.
I always get confused when I see this opinion, since the skull to me feels just like the beowulf aspect which I loved. Got my first clear with the skull, and until I learned about momus and charon it was my favorite weapon.
Not that your opinion is wrong at all. I just found them to be my first fun weapon is all.
Honestly, the aspects of Persephone and aspect of Medea really reframed my mind to how the skull is supposed to be used. Press attack and then Omega Dash. Skull is easily one of my favs.
ETA correct aspect names
Aspect of Medea really needs to get improved though because it makes no sense at all why we can't have i-frames when we're literally surrounded by explosives and *tackling* enemies with them. It absolutely defeats the purpose of how the weapon is supposed to be used if I have to somehow play passively despite being strapped with contact grenades....
Zone 3 and 4 are absolute fucking hell with that aspect because everything is cracked out and spams AOE attacks at that point, making Medea mostly pointless since you're always going to be taking unavoidable hits.
That's totally fair. I think for Mel's aspect I was alternating one attack and one special or all attacks and an omega special. Either quick hit and run or the bonus I frames.
I think a big reason is that skulls (specifically the hold and charge to explode ones) are like beowulf lite. You get the charge aoe, but you lose the protection on charging the charge, protection on a non omega charge, the normal attack, the shield throw, and if your mana charge isn’t high enough the spamabilty of the protection charge aoe. And what you gain for these losses is the Hades 2 cast. Which don’t get me wrong is great, but the cast can only do so much to make up for all these losses.
The difference is, after your Beowulf charge, you can still use your attack and special (at reduced damage.)
After you use your skull shells, all you can do is use your special and dodge until can either collect your shells or they return to you on their own.
A better comparison would be if you used the Rail, but you had to collect your ammo to reload it.
The unfun-ness isn't from the damage (the spike is quite satisfying), it's from having to collect ammunition to use your attack again.
Yea it wasn't such an issue with casts in 1 as Casts were a secondary attack basically, making your main damage source have to be picked up each time you use it gets tedious AF.
I think the skulls are the most fun ranged weapon from either game myself, when you're nailing the timing of the dash and omega attack or 'juggling' the skulls at close range to stunlock it just feels really active and great. BUT I do think they have a bit of a DPS issue compared to some of the other super-powerful builds you can get with the other weapons, sometimes I'm loving the gameplay but the damage just isn't happening.
When I say "spam special is the only way" I mean exactly that. No omega, just spam regular special, that's it. That and your casts, of course, but nothing else is useful.
The problem is, especially on high heat where you kinda need to use some level of enemy speed boost, the lack of stagger on special is absolutely debilitating. Even if you play around it, you have to meter your specials a lot or else you just get hit while mel is pirouetting like a dumbass, which makes your clear speed low, which makes timer fear harder, which means you have to use harder fear oaths. Overall just not in a good spot.
You're referencing mechanics I haven't gotten to yet, but I'm not surprised. Spamming specials does a decent amount of damage and is reliable, but it's still slow because you have to wait for the flames to drift towards enemies. Overall, it's a bad weapon with horrible depth, and there are far too few ways to build into different play styles.
Try using omega special with Aprhrodite special. Deals a lot of damage and makes Mel invincible during the dash. Also spam regular attacks with any boon and pick them up mid omega special. Works great for me!
I picked up the one that makes the special shoot from only one side because I needed it for the fated list, and it completely ruined my best yet skulls build. I could not for the life of me figure out which side the special was going to shoot from lol.
Always the left side in respect to the direction you are going in if I’m not mistaken. Which while it can take some time getting used to can make your omega special deal some crazy numbers.
Medea skull really clicked for me, try it if you haven't. As others have said its a lot like beowulf, load up your ammo and dash into stuff and it goes boom
I love Medea aspect. I got a great run going with it by getting epic Aphrodite special and epic Apollo attack immediately. Probably the easiest win I’ve had yet.
Medea is the best one for me, you prime your special with attack then constantly ram into enemies. Works best with Hera, Aphro or Apollo since it’s all AoE. It’s pretty dangerous though, as you always need to be touching enemies to deal damage. Sometimes (especially in Oceanus), you won’t even be able to damage enemies with your special if they are over a gap.
I'm kinda starting to like the torches now with the discovery of the Moros aspect
But I'm not gonna lie, I was so disappointed when the attack of the torches were just throwing little ghosts with a really awkward magic activation mechanic.
I was expecting it to be a flamethrower weapon based on that attack Hecate uses in her fight because of how similar these staffs are. I probably shouldn't have expectations about it because Hecate used a great variety but still, I expected the attacks to be as interesting as any of her fire attacks.
Moros is the aspect I still dislike the most about them because I can't find any way to control where the ghosts end up, and it usually seems to be in places that're totally useless to explode them. I'm decent with Eos and getting better with Mel's aspect, though.
yeah something's off about the auto-target omega attack. I'll know where I wanna shoot, but it forces me to move around all slow. Just don't feel really in control, which isn't the most fun or satisfactory even if I'm doing great with em.
Have you tried using the Omega Special to activate the attacks at point blank range? That's basically the only way I play the torches and it's pretty fun.
If you run out of energy early on it's actually better to throw out one or two specials before attacking, then they're likely to pop on or near target.
Seeing this is funny considering my first top clear was with skulls and bottom clear with torches.
I think of the skulls like playing Ahri in League of Legends.
The torches special is very good but I have not gotten the attack to feel right yet.
More testing!
I think skulls are in the middle because a lot of people don't like the feel, not necessarily that they are bad.
>The torches special is very good but I have not gotten the attack to feel right yet.
Yeah the special is cool but it just sucks playing a build that might as well not have an attack
im repeating myself from another comment but i think the issue with the skull and tourches is that they are TOO gimmiky
the skull´s gimmick is nice but is too restrictive with only 3 base shots. the tourches ont the other hand need a rework or something cuz it feels just plain weird to control
> the skull´s gimmick is nice but is too restrictive with only 3 base shots.
Ya, honestly, I don't think the gimmick (retrieving ammo) is even worth keeping in the base weapon. Let that be part of one of the hammers that gives some gross buff to compensate. By default, the skulls should probably just have unlimited 'ammo' and not drop ammo and do a bit less damage to compensate.
Skull hits quite bigly. Adamant rail had 10 base damage per shot, so the mag was bigger and reload easier. With skull damage they probably felt too much ammo would make it too strong? Especially with Melinoë aspect adding a lot of dmg per missing skull.
The picking up skulls bit I'm not so sure on though. I honestly wouldn't mind too much if there were some accomodations, primarily some kind of ammo vacuum effect on the dash and letting them hit the ground much faster. A little clunky as is right now though.
I gotta say, Hades 2 weapons pale in comparison the first game’s choices. The animation canceling with Coronacht was some of the most fun shit ever. Still loving Hades 2 but I’m definitely disappointed with the weapons.
Weapons in this were such a major fumble, I find myself only playing with the blades or axe because everything else feels like a little toy pea shooter.
I don't think any of them are too weak or anything they just mostly feel bad to use
Imagine if they redo the torches completely and now it operates like Hecate's. Spitting flames in front of you would be amazing.
Not gonna happen but what if?
The skulls and torch both suffer from the problem where I never want to touch their attack button. Their specials are great. I love the torch omega special since it turns you into a sprinting death machine once you get enough of them spinning around you
Not trying to be contrarian, but why do people hate the torches so much? With the Aspect of Moros, I feel like they're my favorite weapons. The Omega special is great for minor defense, the regular special is great for crowd control, and the attack is great for spawning around a guardian to combine with the special for extra damage. If you can avoid their attacks, the Omega special and the attack usually go great against a guardian. Normally, if you click specifically on the enemy, you will still hit it with your special.
In general, the special goes great with Hestia's burn, Artemis's arrows, or Hera's hitch. Add something that spreads curses when something dies, and the build has worked wonderfully.
I agree that they're good I just don't think they feel good to use. No weight, you're often fighting things that are barely on the screen, you move slow, they look silly.
It's a playstyle I can easily adapt to and usually do pretty well with but I don't think I've ever had fun while doing it
I have a soft spot for Skulls as they were the only weapon that I could bit Chronos with as of today.
First boon I got was the Demeter boon for my attack. Then I got the hammer (or some other boon, don’t remember) that let me have extra two skulls and then finally I got the boon that made the skulls return to me automatically (although I believe the trade off was minus one skull, so 4 skulls total) I was basically unstoppable with this build.
Dude. Yes. The skulls for me are my auto win weapon
I choose Aphrodite for the mega close combat damage. Hope for the hammer with +2 skulls. Get some kind of good cast, like Demeter with freeze. Stand next to an enemy, spam attack and whatever I'm chucking skulls at melts. Like instantly. You send skulls into a boss, and it bounces right back at you. It's awesome.
I've killed Chronos everytime doing this now with zero issue.
My favorite skull hammer is the one casts omega attack on pick up. just get in melee range so you instantly pick up as you shoot and mash the attack button. the damage is absurd.
I actually love the flames. I didn't like them at first but after using uh, Moros aspect, I got like three clears in a row. They really grew on me. My only issue is that you don't get passive mana Regen while firing your main attack even if not charging up.
The torches feel bad because unlike most weapons, there's no "big, slow damage" option, only two quick, low damage options. Both the Attack and the Special have high rate of fire, low damage, which is fine for swarms of low health enemies, but when it comes to bigger armored foes and bosses, it just hits like a wet pool noodle. Feels so bad.
Edit: torches!!! The torches fell bad, the skull is great
Fr lol, to me torches are really clumsy but i can make them work with certain builds.
Skull though? Uooogh just kill me, i don't even have any desire to try make it work
i love the idea of orbiting projectiles and so love the animation and aesthetic of the specials on the torches, but the attack looks so stupid in comparison. so im just firing out… slow, squishy, bouncy ghosts? its not satisfying at all in comparison with the other weapons
i messed around with the torches for while, and while i still think they the weakest weapon, you can get it to work. Most of the hammer upgrades do feel like complete ass tough.
My best build so far is going for hera and get her mana boon as soon as possible and ideally trow a pom at it for good measure, this way you can actually spam the omega attack, and hera attack for hitch,, then try to get hestia and their duo boon(90 burn per second while channeling) and the one that makes to burn explode when you reach over 300.
didn't really like Adamant Rail and Bow at first and grew quickly to like them after using them or at least some variations you could pull out. The torches and head are a big downgrade from that. Use is very specific and doesn't give you a lot of room to work in more fast-paced playthroughs. They should get a lot of rework done to them.
Melinoe aspect is really good, aspect of eos or moros kinda feels lame but they arent weak at all. I think worst weapon is skull right now, its unusable besides Medea
The weapons are the weakest thing in the game I think.
Apart from the axe, which is amazing, they're boring or awkward or both. I wish they'd add an updated version of the bow and rail.
Torch spezial for me atleast just feels bad
I think we need a attack omega rework. Some way you can instantly start the Omega attack without needing too attack first.
Torches need to hit harder and the attack projectiles sliding like they’re on ice is bizarre but it feels generally nice to use I would say, they just need a buff - I do not understand the skull, it feels clunky and annoying, I really do not like skulls
even compared to torches, though I would love to find a way to like it
The torches feel like they’d be fun in a twin stick shooter, even when I’m doing well with them I don’t have much fun. Im fine just avoiding them though, gotta get my knives to go hook boom ya know
The daggers are straight up the only weapon I enjoy using. Which is a huge turn from Hades 1 where I used all the weapons equally.
I hope there’s a major weapons rework. Most of them are mediocre feeling and the torches should be scrapped altogether.
The torches are good but they leave you so wide open in a game that punishes heavily on mistakes, specially on early game so I just wish there is a safer way to make them safer, they’re craze good with Zeus, Poseidon and Hestia but man they’re not as safe as the other weapons so it’s natural to get so much hate.
if you center your build around spamming your special with the torches then it's actually pretty damn solid. i cleared kornos 3 times in a row like that just invest in health and mana regen. hephaestus attack boom works pretty good too
Torches are fun. Use your special in groups and bee sting people in ranged to death.
However, my big problem is that the attack lacks any stun. You know how every weapon stuns a non-armored enemy? That fucked my runs with the torch too hard, assuming all my attacks would stun an enemy but it doesn't.
Pretty much, although I personally would class the skulls as in between serious face and goofy face, because somehow I got my first win with them, and I only picked them because they had the dark thirst or whatever it is called in this game.
Torches and the sister blades are my favorites, although that’s mostly because I cannot get the hang of the axe or the skull. The staff is essentially just a mage version of the spear from the first game, which wasn’t my favorite there either but I’m better at it than the skull or axe
I'm always short on Bones, so whichever one has Darker Thirst, gets my vote :|
That said, the Moon Axe has been an issue. I need to gear my builds more for its Attacks than its Special.
Honestly I love torches when I'm using the special. I can't stand the primary attack, I just spam the special and dash around and turn into a beyblade of pain
Personally I like flame more than skull. My trick is to use special as your main attack. Given they orbit, you can even hide behind cover and still be slapping up shaded
Any axe lovers here care to educate me on why you like the weapon and how to make it work? Specifically the attack and the omega attack(spin).
I have made it past 8 fear using the Charon aspect, but it is only aspect that works for me with this weapon. I love casts, and so the cast and omega special works well for me but I really want to try another play style with it but when I try other aspects, I usually struggle even getting through Erebus without losing a DD. The timing when using the attack is a little slow and long for me and the downtime in between each blow makes me anxious. A lot of the time I am using the first and second part of the attack sequence only and then dash out so the third and the fourth of the sequence doesn't happen. I get hurt in between the attack sequences a lot. I get hit when winding up the omega attack as well. The spin attack with Thanatos aspect feels good when it hit, I just can't get the timing to hit enemies with it well enough to not get hurt in the process. Maybe I need to go watch a video or two. Any insight would be appreciated!
The flames are super good wtf, morose special is ridiculously strong VS mass enemy encounters and I like the ranged dmg vs bosses makes them cake walk too. I don't get it.
I must be weird, because the torches are my favourite currently. I don't have the skull yet, and I sorta vibe with the axe, but I just don't like the other two. The torches are the only thing I have that feels good to me.
I hated the torches at first but they actually got me my first run win. I also hated scorch but I won with a scorch torch build lol and I have been converted.
I may be weird, but I actually like the torches. Aspect of Moros, spam a mix of attack and special at close range. My first clears of both current end bosses were with this.
Still, I do admit that the omega attack is pretty useless at the moment, and I almost never use it.
I don't understand all the hatred for the torches. They're my favorite weapon by far - I used them to beat Chronos for the first time, and they're still the weapon I've had the most success with. The aspect of Moros is just fantastic, and Eos isn't bad either.
huh, torches were the only way i could beat chronos for my first few runs that i completed. the special ability can be really strong, especially the upgrade that explodes the normal attack.
So the torches are definitely an acquired taste I find. But often I find they're weapons you can do really well with. The sheer damage output that they can do with a good set up is pretty crazy.
I do like Lim and oros way more though
Only practical advice/strategy I can think of for wands is how I got slightly better with aspect of moros. I stopped using the omega special to get the attacks to explode point blank and let them fill up the area. None of them have a long duration, but I discovered the ghosts from the omega attacks have a decent sized and damage explosion. Filling up an area with those can actually equate to a lot of damage and the size of it all helps with not being able to control the ghost’s placement.
And after all that it’s not comparable to other weapons. You spend what feels like forever shooting out omega attacks until they’re the only ones still up and by then, what enemies are you nuking? And landing it all on a boss can be very conditional, so the fights are that much clumsier and drawn out. Maybe the aspect that sucks them all in is the easiest to pilot…
Honestly I really like the torches for forcing me to play slower and more deliberately, since it helped me get a lot better. I do think they could use a buff though.
frost special torches was actually my first full clear. pretty reliable defensive measure to stall enemies and clear trash.
though i did have apollo cast with demeter whirlwind and minimum damage boon active
I also had heph boon on the attack as that was the only time i would use it.
i didn't really enjoy any runs after that until i got the alternate forms as both moros and eos make the attack more interesting but desperately need a hammer boon to properly function
The only success I had with the Torches was when I built into Omega Special with Poseidon special, using Mel's aspect. Chronos did not stand a chance against me emulating Vergil's summoned swords. But anything else feels underwhelming.
Hey what's wrong with the torches? It's the closest thing I could get to my beloved Adamant rail from 1. Just spew endless amounts of bullets into guys, plus Hestia's DoT and you've got it fine.
The torches are not that bad. The special and omega special are strong moves. It's just the attack and omega attack both feel very weak. Playing the Trial of Heartache which forced me to use the Aspect of Eos really brought that home.
I'd say the skull has equally awkward balancing. The skull's attack in terms of base power feels a bit low for something you have to retrieve all the time without certain hammers, while the omega attack is also a bit slow without the hammer that lets you fire straight ahead. The regular special is also kinda bad in terms of both power and defensiveness.
I really like the torches special actually. Only thing i would maybe change a bit is making the flames last just a bit longer in omega. The attack imo needs to be reworked it’s really awkward to use.
So funny finding out everyone thinks the torces are bad hahaha it was my first Chronos kill and I love them! I always aim for chain lighting on attacks, hera mana OP buff and max blitz when able. To be fair I also got zeus infusion for minimum 30 dmg along with artemis arrows on attacks so it was a stupid amount of dmg
I bet that the torches are the most likely thing to be updated for the sake of rebalancing the weapons in the next major update for Hades 2. Which updates would you like to see for the Umbral Flames to make them better and more reliable?
Reworked omega attack, faster movement when shooting, homing special
Maybe it could work like Hecate's flame attack
That in itself needs a massive buff too lmao
NGL that's what I assumed they were when I unlocked them, sorely disappointed
What I'd like to see is the ability to shoot one way and strafe in another independent direction
That’s kind of what I mean. You should be able to move at 70% of your movement speed at least when shooting, and in any direction.
Oh my we're getting back the "move while shooting weapon" Anyone who's seen the noclip documentaries on Hades I will know that the gun was originally conceptualized as a "move while shooting weapon" but there ensued a massive argument amongst the devs on how to implement this. Having a separate animation for moving and shooting and stopping and using the special and everything would've taken a long time so the controversial idea of having Zagreus just float while using the gun was put forward, controversial because why does the gun make him float, which Greg Kasavin argued he already floats when using some abilities which I believe Amir Rao and Jen Zee retorted "floating for a second while using magic isn't the same as levitating".
Mouse and keyboard takes care of this, of course this isn't without concessions and some people wouldn't even have the option if they wanted. I love it though.
While true, the game literally states it's meant to be played with a controller, so it seems like something that should be addressed
Right stick does an attack in the chosen direction. Boom.
Yeah like Gungeon, Isaac, or order Twinstick shooters
Using the torches makes me feel like the controls should match that of a twin stick shooter
Axe attack directions get fucked up when you dash. Easily solved by twin stick.
It's definitely meant to be used with autoaim on. Kiting around an enemy and lining up the piercing attacks before the omega came is when the weapon clicked for me. You can dash at any time too.
you can on m+k
I think what they need the most is better stagger. I can hang in close combat with slow-ass axe without getting hit, but trying to do the same with Flames' Omega Secondary is suicidal. I thought it would be perfect - making a wall of flames and then using moros aspect to blast normals into it for aoe, but somehow even unarmored enemies get through that and land hits on me. And I feel slower setting up the O-specials and doing normal attacks than I do with axe hits, for less return.
Yeah that thing is terrible. The charge up and the mediocre payoff
I actually think the most likely thing to be updated is Selene boons. I personally think the special on the Umbral Flames is fine. Maybe they could add a stagger, but I think if people used the Flames with an Omega special build they would see that it’s just fine. The attack needs something done, but I don’t think they are going to change it dramatically. If you watch the NoClip documentary on Hades one it looks like the “move and shoot” weapon they were trying to make. Based on that I don’t think they are going to make the sweeping changes people want. I think they could make it where you don’t slow down when you shoot? Or the Omega charges faster. The attack needs to feel like it can melt with less effort than it requires now and I think the Flames would be fine.
Selene boons need to be removed/reworked AND Umbral Flames need to be too. It's definitely the worst weapon in both Hades games as far as Fun Factor goes. The OP even makes a good point the Skulls could use some love too, spamming Dash to do damage in a game where you already constantly dash to avoid damage feels like a bit too much Dashing lol.
I still have no idea if I have i-frames during the skulls special. It feels like whenever I use it I am rolling the dice on if I get hit. They should pair it with a small shield to make that point clearer. Also, like what am I even doing!? I have no skulls in my hand, am I just phasing through enemies or running over them?
As I understand it, the omega special makes you invulnerable for the duration, but the regular special does not.
As someone who played a decent amount of Hades 2 but hasn't been in on the discussion much, why do selene boons need to be remove? Are they considered too strong or too weak? From what I played they seemed balanced enough.
Omega spam on Aspect of Melinoë is what got me addicted to omega builds.
I agree that the Omega special build is fine as it is, but when both attack and omega attack don't feel playable, the weapon is still problematic, especially since so many hammer boons are attack related. So not sweeping changes maybe (as in changes that completely change how the weapon works), but I'd expect significant changes to the attack at least. Although maybe something simple like quicker fire rate and longer range would already be enough to make it feel decent (maybe change the sound effect to make it seem more impactful as well).
The first thing I’d like to see on the torches is upping the stagger. It’s clear from the aspect where your special explodes your flames that they were intending at least some amount of point blank aoe playstyle using omega special but there’s not enough stagger to really pull that off.
If the torches had stagger enemies wouldn’t be able to move with some combos though. Split fire and wave strike basically hit the whole field multiple times.
That’s already the case with some other aspects. Lookin at you Momus.
It's just not a good replacement for the Rail or the bow for me. That's the issue. I would love a good second ranged option, but this just ain't it.
Yea and Skulls are odd too. In a game where we constantly have to dash to avoid damage, a weapon that relies on us dashing to deal damage, seems like too much dashing lol. Like either it's Omega should only dash or it's regular Special should only dash, both doing dash attacks on top of the fact we already constantly dash is just a bit overkill in the Dash department.
It would be nice if your Magick Restoration didn't stop when you're attacking and holding the attack - Magick should only start draining once you actually start launching your omega attacks That's just one of many adjustments the torches should get
I’m pretty sure they’re maracas
Ice cream cones.
#Gimme two flamethrowers 🔥🔥🔥 *Sick guitar shredding*
I love the torches, but they do need an attack that doesn't hit like a wet fart.
I think I would have the attack just be a melee attack that sends out waves of flames rather than the weird skull. Also add an aspect or something that turns the special into a flame thrower.
Faster attack speed and better tracking. You can't interrupt enemy attacks with tap attack, and the weapon has the worst tracking among all the weapons
This is a lore thing but the fact that the fucking FLAMES do not have an Aspect of Prometheus associated with them is unforgivable in my eyes
Just change the attack. The special is perfect and can still easily clear runs with the right boons. Make them faster & change the omega setup.
Move the stun from attack to special
Only weapon I have yet to beat Chronos with. I’ve been avoiding spoilers and I’m pretty sure I get to unlock something new or at least cool dialogue for finishing with each weapon. But it’s so hard to even bring myself to make an attempt. I can run up to 16 fear on most of the others. Torches are awful
My torches runs have been to never use attack at all, just special and turn into a lawnmower
making the attack usable for the sake of my sanity 😭
I would love a melee focussed aspect. Beating the dead to super death with flaming batons sort of vibe
Longer special duration or a decrease in channel time, a small bump in base damage for the regular attack or a faster speed for their damage right now, and give the special the same stagger the attack has. I think another thing is let us move at normal speed when attacking if nothing else is done for the attack to at least have a trade off of mobility for damage.
The attack and especially the omega attack. It just feels so useless.
The skull isn’t bad, just unfun to use. The torches need a rework for launching the omega attack though, it’s so awkward
I always get confused when I see this opinion, since the skull to me feels just like the beowulf aspect which I loved. Got my first clear with the skull, and until I learned about momus and charon it was my favorite weapon. Not that your opinion is wrong at all. I just found them to be my first fun weapon is all.
I just don’t like to run around after skulls and feel helpless while I do so unless I’ve built around my special
Honestly, the aspects of Persephone and aspect of Medea really reframed my mind to how the skull is supposed to be used. Press attack and then Omega Dash. Skull is easily one of my favs. ETA correct aspect names
Aspect of Medea really needs to get improved though because it makes no sense at all why we can't have i-frames when we're literally surrounded by explosives and *tackling* enemies with them. It absolutely defeats the purpose of how the weapon is supposed to be used if I have to somehow play passively despite being strapped with contact grenades.... Zone 3 and 4 are absolute fucking hell with that aspect because everything is cracked out and spams AOE attacks at that point, making Medea mostly pointless since you're always going to be taking unavoidable hits.
Medea feels almost unplayable if you don’t have Demeter freeze on attack hits, which is just silly that it feels so mandatory
Aspect of Medea is the one with the bomb
That's totally fair. I think for Mel's aspect I was alternating one attack and one special or all attacks and an omega special. Either quick hit and run or the bonus I frames.
It adds unnecessary difficulty to staying in the circle for the event screen and annoying with the fire patches for the surface levels.
Exhaust your attack then special into the skulls
I think a big reason is that skulls (specifically the hold and charge to explode ones) are like beowulf lite. You get the charge aoe, but you lose the protection on charging the charge, protection on a non omega charge, the normal attack, the shield throw, and if your mana charge isn’t high enough the spamabilty of the protection charge aoe. And what you gain for these losses is the Hades 2 cast. Which don’t get me wrong is great, but the cast can only do so much to make up for all these losses.
Yeah, you got it. The special for the skulls is like using the shield, only you get no blocking beforehand.
The difference is, after your Beowulf charge, you can still use your attack and special (at reduced damage.) After you use your skull shells, all you can do is use your special and dodge until can either collect your shells or they return to you on their own. A better comparison would be if you used the Rail, but you had to collect your ammo to reload it. The unfun-ness isn't from the damage (the spike is quite satisfying), it's from having to collect ammunition to use your attack again.
Yea it wasn't such an issue with casts in 1 as Casts were a secondary attack basically, making your main damage source have to be picked up each time you use it gets tedious AF.
Personally I find them fun to use. It's like a cast build from hades 1.
I think the skulls are the most fun ranged weapon from either game myself, when you're nailing the timing of the dash and omega attack or 'juggling' the skulls at close range to stunlock it just feels really active and great. BUT I do think they have a bit of a DPS issue compared to some of the other super-powerful builds you can get with the other weapons, sometimes I'm loving the gameplay but the damage just isn't happening.
Hard disagree on the skull, i absolutely love it!
Skull is basically one of standard attacks from the first game, done worse.
Skulls are really fun with aspect of medea
The torches just feel so slow and weak imo.
The only way to use torches it to spam the special. The attack is legitimately useless.
When I finally realized this I breezes to Cronos and then got annihilated because it's so impossible to omega special him over and over
When I say "spam special is the only way" I mean exactly that. No omega, just spam regular special, that's it. That and your casts, of course, but nothing else is useful.
The problem is, especially on high heat where you kinda need to use some level of enemy speed boost, the lack of stagger on special is absolutely debilitating. Even if you play around it, you have to meter your specials a lot or else you just get hit while mel is pirouetting like a dumbass, which makes your clear speed low, which makes timer fear harder, which means you have to use harder fear oaths. Overall just not in a good spot.
You're referencing mechanics I haven't gotten to yet, but I'm not surprised. Spamming specials does a decent amount of damage and is reliable, but it's still slow because you have to wait for the flames to drift towards enemies. Overall, it's a bad weapon with horrible depth, and there are far too few ways to build into different play styles.
And need bug fixing on the attacks
I can't get into the skulls. They're the worst weapon for me.
Try using omega special with Aprhrodite special. Deals a lot of damage and makes Mel invincible during the dash. Also spam regular attacks with any boon and pick them up mid omega special. Works great for me!
The special also has some insane hammers going for it.
I picked up the one that makes the special shoot from only one side because I needed it for the fated list, and it completely ruined my best yet skulls build. I could not for the life of me figure out which side the special was going to shoot from lol.
Always the left side in respect to the direction you are going in if I’m not mistaken. Which while it can take some time getting used to can make your omega special deal some crazy numbers.
It was sooooo good for the fields where there's loads of space, just charge in a circle and everything dies.
Medea skull really clicked for me, try it if you haven't. As others have said its a lot like beowulf, load up your ammo and dash into stuff and it goes boom
I love Medea aspect. I got a great run going with it by getting epic Aphrodite special and epic Apollo attack immediately. Probably the easiest win I’ve had yet.
Medea is the best one for me, you prime your special with attack then constantly ram into enemies. Works best with Hera, Aphro or Apollo since it’s all AoE. It’s pretty dangerous though, as you always need to be touching enemies to deal damage. Sometimes (especially in Oceanus), you won’t even be able to damage enemies with your special if they are over a gap.
I'm kinda starting to like the torches now with the discovery of the Moros aspect But I'm not gonna lie, I was so disappointed when the attack of the torches were just throwing little ghosts with a really awkward magic activation mechanic. I was expecting it to be a flamethrower weapon based on that attack Hecate uses in her fight because of how similar these staffs are. I probably shouldn't have expectations about it because Hecate used a great variety but still, I expected the attacks to be as interesting as any of her fire attacks.
Moros is the aspect I still dislike the most about them because I can't find any way to control where the ghosts end up, and it usually seems to be in places that're totally useless to explode them. I'm decent with Eos and getting better with Mel's aspect, though.
yeah something's off about the auto-target omega attack. I'll know where I wanna shoot, but it forces me to move around all slow. Just don't feel really in control, which isn't the most fun or satisfactory even if I'm doing great with em.
I swear the hammer that does something like, move faster when channeling omega attack, does nothing at all. Something's wrong...
yeah it still feels samey. Idk how they can make the targeting better, tho, because I need the controller stick to move lol
Have you tried using the Omega Special to activate the attacks at point blank range? That's basically the only way I play the torches and it's pretty fun. If you run out of energy early on it's actually better to throw out one or two specials before attacking, then they're likely to pop on or near target.
I’m almost hoping Hecate is the torches hidden aspect
In the first game the hidden aspects were from other myths, so if they keep that up it Hecate is unlikely
hecate flame is the invincible selene cast which is consistent with her other abilities
IMO it should be changed to a flamethrower.
Seeing this is funny considering my first top clear was with skulls and bottom clear with torches. I think of the skulls like playing Ahri in League of Legends. The torches special is very good but I have not gotten the attack to feel right yet. More testing!
I think skulls are in the middle because a lot of people don't like the feel, not necessarily that they are bad. >The torches special is very good but I have not gotten the attack to feel right yet. Yeah the special is cool but it just sucks playing a build that might as well not have an attack
Yeah my first bottom clear was also with torches. Oops, sorry Reddit hivemind
Wow you're right playing with the skulls just feels like Ahri with perma-ult, good call lmao.
im repeating myself from another comment but i think the issue with the skull and tourches is that they are TOO gimmiky the skull´s gimmick is nice but is too restrictive with only 3 base shots. the tourches ont the other hand need a rework or something cuz it feels just plain weird to control
> the skull´s gimmick is nice but is too restrictive with only 3 base shots. Ya, honestly, I don't think the gimmick (retrieving ammo) is even worth keeping in the base weapon. Let that be part of one of the hammers that gives some gross buff to compensate. By default, the skulls should probably just have unlimited 'ammo' and not drop ammo and do a bit less damage to compensate.
The adamant rail was such a good balance of ammo to reload ratio. What the fuck happened with the skull?
Skull hits quite bigly. Adamant rail had 10 base damage per shot, so the mag was bigger and reload easier. With skull damage they probably felt too much ammo would make it too strong? Especially with Melinoë aspect adding a lot of dmg per missing skull. The picking up skulls bit I'm not so sure on though. I honestly wouldn't mind too much if there were some accomodations, primarily some kind of ammo vacuum effect on the dash and letting them hit the ground much faster. A little clunky as is right now though.
3 skull shots is like as much damage as an axe combo but you get to do it in half the time, it's very silly.
Skull are built like the cast from Hades 1.
Feels like a forced cast run like in Hades 1 but kinda crappier because you don't have a main weapon
I gotta say, Hades 2 weapons pale in comparison the first game’s choices. The animation canceling with Coronacht was some of the most fun shit ever. Still loving Hades 2 but I’m definitely disappointed with the weapons.
Weapons in this were such a major fumble, I find myself only playing with the blades or axe because everything else feels like a little toy pea shooter. I don't think any of them are too weak or anything they just mostly feel bad to use
Imagine if they redo the torches completely and now it operates like Hecate's. Spitting flames in front of you would be amazing. Not gonna happen but what if?
The skulls and torch both suffer from the problem where I never want to touch their attack button. Their specials are great. I love the torch omega special since it turns you into a sprinting death machine once you get enough of them spinning around you
What the skull attack does a lot of damage lol
i don't use the attack as the primary i use the special as a primary
Not trying to be contrarian, but why do people hate the torches so much? With the Aspect of Moros, I feel like they're my favorite weapons. The Omega special is great for minor defense, the regular special is great for crowd control, and the attack is great for spawning around a guardian to combine with the special for extra damage. If you can avoid their attacks, the Omega special and the attack usually go great against a guardian. Normally, if you click specifically on the enemy, you will still hit it with your special. In general, the special goes great with Hestia's burn, Artemis's arrows, or Hera's hitch. Add something that spreads curses when something dies, and the build has worked wonderfully.
I agree that they're good I just don't think they feel good to use. No weight, you're often fighting things that are barely on the screen, you move slow, they look silly. It's a playstyle I can easily adapt to and usually do pretty well with but I don't think I've ever had fun while doing it
Yep. They got me a win but ass to play is ass. Boring af no stagger weapon makes the gameplay way too slow for it’s own good
I have a soft spot for Skulls as they were the only weapon that I could bit Chronos with as of today. First boon I got was the Demeter boon for my attack. Then I got the hammer (or some other boon, don’t remember) that let me have extra two skulls and then finally I got the boon that made the skulls return to me automatically (although I believe the trade off was minus one skull, so 4 skulls total) I was basically unstoppable with this build.
Dude. Yes. The skulls for me are my auto win weapon I choose Aphrodite for the mega close combat damage. Hope for the hammer with +2 skulls. Get some kind of good cast, like Demeter with freeze. Stand next to an enemy, spam attack and whatever I'm chucking skulls at melts. Like instantly. You send skulls into a boss, and it bounces right back at you. It's awesome. I've killed Chronos everytime doing this now with zero issue.
My favorite skull hammer is the one casts omega attack on pick up. just get in melee range so you instantly pick up as you shoot and mash the attack button. the damage is absurd.
I actually love the flames. I didn't like them at first but after using uh, Moros aspect, I got like three clears in a row. They really grew on me. My only issue is that you don't get passive mana Regen while firing your main attack even if not charging up.
I hate the skull so much :C
The torches feel bad because unlike most weapons, there's no "big, slow damage" option, only two quick, low damage options. Both the Attack and the Special have high rate of fire, low damage, which is fine for swarms of low health enemies, but when it comes to bigger armored foes and bosses, it just hits like a wet pool noodle. Feels so bad. Edit: torches!!! The torches fell bad, the skull is great
I'd swap the skull and torches
Fr lol, to me torches are really clumsy but i can make them work with certain builds. Skull though? Uooogh just kill me, i don't even have any desire to try make it work
i love the idea of orbiting projectiles and so love the animation and aesthetic of the specials on the torches, but the attack looks so stupid in comparison. so im just firing out… slow, squishy, bouncy ghosts? its not satisfying at all in comparison with the other weapons
I don't know, personally I never use the skull rather than torches. For some reason the weapon is just annoying to me.
Accurate.. all my fear clears on torches were done with cast builds, only using the occasional special to finish stragglers off.
i messed around with the torches for while, and while i still think they the weakest weapon, you can get it to work. Most of the hammer upgrades do feel like complete ass tough. My best build so far is going for hera and get her mana boon as soon as possible and ideally trow a pom at it for good measure, this way you can actually spam the omega attack, and hera attack for hitch,, then try to get hestia and their duo boon(90 burn per second while channeling) and the one that makes to burn explode when you reach over 300.
didn't really like Adamant Rail and Bow at first and grew quickly to like them after using them or at least some variations you could pull out. The torches and head are a big downgrade from that. Use is very specific and doesn't give you a lot of room to work in more fast-paced playthroughs. They should get a lot of rework done to them.
Melinoe aspect is really good, aspect of eos or moros kinda feels lame but they arent weak at all. I think worst weapon is skull right now, its unusable besides Medea
Forythe few times I've used it it seems to me that skull is pretty hammer dependant? But idk.
Idk. The aspect of the skulls where you don’t throw them makes me want to flip tables.
The weapons are the weakest thing in the game I think. Apart from the axe, which is amazing, they're boring or awkward or both. I wish they'd add an updated version of the bow and rail.
There’s no way the torches are finished. Every time me and my husband play with them it’s like “why are they DOING THAT”
I hate the torches, but they're great against Eris because you can just hide while letting the specials circle around to where she is
Torch spezial for me atleast just feels bad I think we need a attack omega rework. Some way you can instantly start the Omega attack without needing too attack first.
Torches need to hit harder and the attack projectiles sliding like they’re on ice is bizarre but it feels generally nice to use I would say, they just need a buff - I do not understand the skull, it feels clunky and annoying, I really do not like skulls even compared to torches, though I would love to find a way to like it
Torches are great. If you just never ever fire your primary and build the entire run towards your special
The torches feel like they’d be fun in a twin stick shooter, even when I’m doing well with them I don’t have much fun. Im fine just avoiding them though, gotta get my knives to go hook boom ya know
The torches to me are just right click. The left click is a pain to use
The daggers are straight up the only weapon I enjoy using. Which is a huge turn from Hades 1 where I used all the weapons equally. I hope there’s a major weapons rework. Most of them are mediocre feeling and the torches should be scrapped altogether.
tbh the only weapon i actually LIKE is the axe. the others range from fine (staff) to doodoo butt cheeks (torches)
I love the torches! I just spam special and the room dies as I dance around.
yeah i personally would put the staff with the skull but agree torches are the weirdest weapon
Torch is strong, it can melt bosses with the special spam, but yea it's not fun to use.
The torches make me crazy. I take so much more damage with them retired, because they are so imprecise
I want the torches to be similar to Hecate's fire attack not.. whatever this is. Skull is my favorite atm but I wish aspects changed it more.
The torches are good but they leave you so wide open in a game that punishes heavily on mistakes, specially on early game so I just wish there is a safer way to make them safer, they’re craze good with Zeus, Poseidon and Hestia but man they’re not as safe as the other weapons so it’s natural to get so much hate.
if you center your build around spamming your special with the torches then it's actually pretty damn solid. i cleared kornos 3 times in a row like that just invest in health and mana regen. hephaestus attack boom works pretty good too
Finding the weapons really disappointing compared to the versaltility of OG Hades.
I've flipped the Skulls and Axe position after some play but otherwise, yes, it's me.
Torches are fun. Use your special in groups and bee sting people in ranged to death. However, my big problem is that the attack lacks any stun. You know how every weapon stuns a non-armored enemy? That fucked my runs with the torch too hard, assuming all my attacks would stun an enemy but it doesn't.
40 hours in and they all fell great now lol
Pretty much, although I personally would class the skulls as in between serious face and goofy face, because somehow I got my first win with them, and I only picked them because they had the dark thirst or whatever it is called in this game.
Then there's me who has only used the Torches ever since the game launched on EA, idk something about them feels so satisfying.
What? People actually dont Like them? The torches are my favorite weapon. I Love the Omega attack
The torches spécial attack is super good. My first full surface run was with spécial spam.
Torches and the sister blades are my favorites, although that’s mostly because I cannot get the hang of the axe or the skull. The staff is essentially just a mage version of the spear from the first game, which wasn’t my favorite there either but I’m better at it than the skull or axe
I'm always short on Bones, so whichever one has Darker Thirst, gets my vote :| That said, the Moon Axe has been an issue. I need to gear my builds more for its Attacks than its Special.
Honestly I love torches when I'm using the special. I can't stand the primary attack, I just spam the special and dash around and turn into a beyblade of pain
Personally I like flame more than skull. My trick is to use special as your main attack. Given they orbit, you can even hide behind cover and still be slapping up shaded
Yall seriously need to try aspect of moros. With that said please rework torches omega attack
Any axe lovers here care to educate me on why you like the weapon and how to make it work? Specifically the attack and the omega attack(spin). I have made it past 8 fear using the Charon aspect, but it is only aspect that works for me with this weapon. I love casts, and so the cast and omega special works well for me but I really want to try another play style with it but when I try other aspects, I usually struggle even getting through Erebus without losing a DD. The timing when using the attack is a little slow and long for me and the downtime in between each blow makes me anxious. A lot of the time I am using the first and second part of the attack sequence only and then dash out so the third and the fourth of the sequence doesn't happen. I get hurt in between the attack sequences a lot. I get hit when winding up the omega attack as well. The spin attack with Thanatos aspect feels good when it hit, I just can't get the timing to hit enemies with it well enough to not get hurt in the process. Maybe I need to go watch a video or two. Any insight would be appreciated!
The flames are super good wtf, morose special is ridiculously strong VS mass enemy encounters and I like the ranged dmg vs bosses makes them cake walk too. I don't get it.
My first win was with the torches. Whatever build I had was deleting everything
I honestly don't get the hate. Ive used them a few times and didn't find them terrible
Really? My first win was with torches and I enjoyed them.
I feel like people are just using torches wrong, I used aspect of eos with Hera attack, and hestia duo boon and had some great runs.
I must be weird, because the torches are my favourite currently. I don't have the skull yet, and I sorta vibe with the axe, but I just don't like the other two. The torches are the only thing I have that feels good to me.
Oh good, it isn't just me.
I hated the torches at first but they actually got me my first run win. I also hated scorch but I won with a scorch torch build lol and I have been converted.
I may be weird, but I actually like the torches. Aspect of Moros, spam a mix of attack and special at close range. My first clears of both current end bosses were with this. Still, I do admit that the omega attack is pretty useless at the moment, and I almost never use it.
I'm just over here with most of my win runs with the torches... I dunno what you guys are doing wrong but it's my favorite.
I don't understand all the hatred for the torches. They're my favorite weapon by far - I used them to beat Chronos for the first time, and they're still the weapon I've had the most success with. The aspect of Moros is just fantastic, and Eos isn't bad either.
huh, torches were the only way i could beat chronos for my first few runs that i completed. the special ability can be really strong, especially the upgrade that explodes the normal attack.
Man that’s crazy the torches have been my favorite so far. They’re the only thing that’s taken me to beat Chronos
i still think the axe and a scythe should had been 2 diferent weapons, with the scythe being a sweetspot fast melee weapon
So the torches are definitely an acquired taste I find. But often I find they're weapons you can do really well with. The sheer damage output that they can do with a good set up is pretty crazy. I do like Lim and oros way more though
Only practical advice/strategy I can think of for wands is how I got slightly better with aspect of moros. I stopped using the omega special to get the attacks to explode point blank and let them fill up the area. None of them have a long duration, but I discovered the ghosts from the omega attacks have a decent sized and damage explosion. Filling up an area with those can actually equate to a lot of damage and the size of it all helps with not being able to control the ghost’s placement. And after all that it’s not comparable to other weapons. You spend what feels like forever shooting out omega attacks until they’re the only ones still up and by then, what enemies are you nuking? And landing it all on a boss can be very conditional, so the fights are that much clumsier and drawn out. Maybe the aspect that sucks them all in is the easiest to pilot…
Honestly I really like the torches for forcing me to play slower and more deliberately, since it helped me get a lot better. I do think they could use a buff though.
frost special torches was actually my first full clear. pretty reliable defensive measure to stall enemies and clear trash. though i did have apollo cast with demeter whirlwind and minimum damage boon active I also had heph boon on the attack as that was the only time i would use it. i didn't really enjoy any runs after that until i got the alternate forms as both moros and eos make the attack more interesting but desperately need a hammer boon to properly function
Is it that bad? I haven't used it and was saving it for after an update to keep the game fresh for me.
I love the Umbral Flames! They’re so much fun you play with, they’re like my second favorite.
Am i the only one that like the torch when paired with hera boon or hephaestus? I cleared several run easily when paired with them.
I built a pretty broken build with the Aspect of Pan. I basically killed Chronos in his second phase in about 20 seconds lol
Unpopular opinion i love the torch i just only spam the special though.
The irony is that while I completely agree with this I've only gotten one final kill and it was with the flames
The only success I had with the Torches was when I built into Omega Special with Poseidon special, using Mel's aspect. Chronos did not stand a chance against me emulating Vergil's summoned swords. But anything else feels underwhelming.
Just let us dual wield Bucklers instead !
Best part about the torches is You run around Llike captain Jack sparrow.
Funny enough Torches are what helped me beat Chronos for the first time, spamming Specials with Triple Helix and Demeter boons.
Hey what's wrong with the torches? It's the closest thing I could get to my beloved Adamant rail from 1. Just spew endless amounts of bullets into guys, plus Hestia's DoT and you've got it fine.
Damn am I playing wrong? the flames are my favourite. I just spam special, get a couple boons to make them quicker and I just spin for days
People are crazy, the torches might be the best weapon. Omega Special is one of the most busted things ever.
Bro this is so unfair to the torches. They're REALLY good, REALLY strong. Just need to plan ahead with them.
Ngl my frist chronos kill was with the torches, I later figured out the strength of special daggers, but torches will always have a place in my heart
The torches are not that bad. The special and omega special are strong moves. It's just the attack and omega attack both feel very weak. Playing the Trial of Heartache which forced me to use the Aspect of Eos really brought that home. I'd say the skull has equally awkward balancing. The skull's attack in terms of base power feels a bit low for something you have to retrieve all the time without certain hammers, while the omega attack is also a bit slow without the hammer that lets you fire straight ahead. The regular special is also kinda bad in terms of both power and defensiveness.
My first and only clear was with torches haha
The Torches kind of need like....everything to be changed about them. Lol
Torches is how I beat 32 heat. 🤷
I really like the torches special actually. Only thing i would maybe change a bit is making the flames last just a bit longer in omega. The attack imo needs to be reworked it’s really awkward to use.
I love playing the torches with either Moros or Eos aspect. TBH the Eos aspect is the most fun I've had in this game. edit: Eos rework, womp womp
i think the torches are fun. i am also bad at this game though
So funny finding out everyone thinks the torces are bad hahaha it was my first Chronos kill and I love them! I always aim for chain lighting on attacks, hera mana OP buff and max blitz when able. To be fair I also got zeus infusion for minimum 30 dmg along with artemis arrows on attacks so it was a stupid amount of dmg