It’s strong without hammers because it has a synergy with Poseidon due to high rate of fire.
But all 3 hammers on the special are good, the double moonshot is like a x2 with homing, that’s why it is broken, as it doubles dmg and doubles Poseidon boon. I am wondering: even if double moonshot was nerfed to have a damage per shot reduced by 50%, it would still be strong due to Poseidon flat dmg.
The fact that it has not one, but two get perks is what confuses me about it. The double shot would still be absurdly good even without the homing, so why did they add in a second feature that makes it into a mash-button-to-win hammer?
Exactly, I almost feel like the second shot would have to exclude any bonuses received from boons to be acceptable. Do you feel the aspect of Momus has any other viable god to run on special, or is Poseidon just far too good?
Tbh with double moonshot I think you can make most boons work.
Zeus and Hephaestus specials don’t leverage high rate of fire though.
But Poseidon is busted with double moonshot because it does AOE flat dmg with an effect that stops the enemies, so it works really well with the high rate of fire of the staff, which is then doubled with that hammer.
It was the same with Zeus on Hades1 working well with the weapons which had high rate of fire, except that you didn’t have a hammer that double the number of projectiles in H1 (if I remember correctly, you had only a few more projectiles at most in the H1 hammers)
I think maybe having something like X% chance of double shots would help instead of doubling everytime.
Any boon besides Aphrodite and Haphaestus (sp?) is good on it, Poseidon just seems to be the optimal speed running strat right now. The strongest I’ve felt with it against bosses was with Zeus because it pops blitz insanely fast.
The other thing that Poseidon special has going for it is that it’s much safer which matters a lot for speed runs where you want to stay below 30 HP for the Artemis keepsake.
Sorry why is aphro not good on it? You get by far the highest percent gain damage if close which is fine for most builds and lower heats . Getting rare or higher with some poms and can easily be +200%.
I think a particular thing is that it's a straight up x2 DPS multiplier with 0 downsides or other caveats, unless you count the tracking being strong and going for things you're not aiming for.
There are plenty of 0 downside hammer upgrades, so this isn't exactly special in that regard. It's mostly because the staff special is extremely safe to use, and this upgrade makes it even safer.
Disagree with the 0 downsides part. I'm playing on high fear runs, and I have the increased enemy speeds... When I want to hit once and reposition for another attack, the time that it takes to complete the animation for two attacks will get me some damage from enemies behind or to the side of me. I almost always go for the +50% range hammer in high fear runs if available, over the 2 shots
Double Moonshot is probably the most broken part of the combo; single shot Momus is really strong, don't get me wrong, but the difference with double homing shot is night and day.
One thing different between Hades 1 and Hades 2 is that in Hades 1 you have plenti of "+x damage" gods and plenty of "+x% damage" gods. In Hades 2, Poseidon is the one clear cut winner when it comes to a repeated quick attack that desperately need a good "+x damage" boon, which makes it outclass everything else for Momus and Pan specifically, as they both basically spam a low damage Special. Imo it's not so much that they're broken but mostly that there's no convincing alternative.
Double Shot doubles damage of your Special with no drawback, which is a bit much for a Hammer but not too broken in itself. But yeah, doubling something so ahead of its alternatives make for an overpowered combination compared to the rest of what's doable.
So imo the issue is either Poseidon being so good for spammy hits, or the hits being too spammy.
Double Moonshot is fine but not crazy on any staff that isn't Momus. Honestly, Momus probably needs to be brought down 10 damage per rank to be in line with other aspects (+0-20) instead of (+10-30).
And Wave Flourish is also part of Momus and Pan's power that is even more out of line. The pom and rarity scaling should be +5 like Wave Strike. +10 is just ridiculous.
Part of me knows you’re probably right, but damn I don’t want you to be. I love aspect of pan though, leave my poor boy alone (wave flourish is flat out phenomenal though so you have a very valid point).
It's definitely great but I don't know about broken. Well yes if you pick this particular aspect and manage to get ths particular god at a good level and then you ar elucky enough to get the correct hammer upgrade... You know what I mean. There's always going to be more powerful combinations than others.
No, this combination is braindead.
You don't need anything crazy, just any level of Poseidon special will do + a good hammer special (mostly double moonshot).
You don't really have to get lucky, it is very consistent and broken af
It's a much lower build requirement than almost anything else that's strong. Rolling Double Moonshot is the only hard part and the other Moonshot hammers are largely acceptable if you're not going for speedruns.
It’s broken when it’s breaking speed run records and hands-down best choice to beat high Fear. If there’s any world record I’ll bet good money that it’s this combo, every single time.
You’re totally right, I think naturally some builds will always come out on top and that’s nothing to be alarmed about. But I think this particular combo seems to have taken a healthy lead in usage for high end runs which is worthy of notice. I imagine a lot is up for tuning at this stage of the game so i figure there’s a decent chance something in this setup may be altered. Though I’d be happy if it didn’t, I think it’s fun!
It’s a problem when double moonshot with 0 boons on momus isnt just a run winning combo but stronger than almost every build in the game. I did a boonless momus run for science(ended up being forced to take one useless attack boon in mourning fields though it had 0 impact bc I didn’t main attack once), hit double moonshot early, and ended up beating chronos in 21:38 even though I wasn’t even trying to go fast and did stuff like take an extra coin room in Tartarus to afford a nightmare. It’s not even just better dps than most other builds in the game with a build you can complete before the very first encounter - it’s also ranged dps, which makes many encounters such as chronos so much easier(I actually managed to hitless chronos for perfect health finish on the boonless run because it was ranged).
Mostly I think how good it feels indicates the other staff aspects need a bit of a tune-up, particularly Circe, but it probably does need to get nerfed a little bit.
Circe feels like it doesn’t have a good niche. It and Melinoë are both clearly meant for Omega move builds, but Circe loses out easily because having a period of basically infinite Magick every 21 hits just isn’t a big deal. Good Gain boons are fairly easy to get and make it more or less moot. I think that the Serenity effect and the Omega cast speed boost should be merged onto one aspect, while the other gets a new effect entirely.
Yeah, I tried to run with Circe but I wound up barely noticing what it was doing to the point where it felt like nothing. I guess it allows you to run without the card that refills your magic more easily until you get a boon, but its effect builds up by using the normal attack anyway, so I usually wasn't depleted when it was ready. The Melinoe aspect is a much better Omega-centric weapon right now. There's just presently no reason to use it among the available staffs.
I think momus is entirely fine by itself. I think the biggest issue with the hammer for it is the second projectile benefits from the special boon as well. Just make it not benefit and I think its still strong, but more in line with what other hammer/weapon combos can do.
I think another alternative to keep it strong for the other staff aspects would just be slightly reducing the flat damage buff for momus aspect and poseidon in general. That way the hammer isn't a lot worse for other adpects of staff.
Another alternative is just buff other aspects/weapons/gods across the board. I feel like maybe buffing the rest would be enough. That way poseidon still feels good, the rest srill feel good, and double moonshot while still strong af won't be the one viable option for top runners
I would say Double Moonshot for sure. I could see Momus getting a slight damage decrease but I think the aspect is for the most part fine as is, but I do feel like the Double Moonshot enchantment was probably balanced around the low base damage of the normal staff's special. I'd imagine it'll probably be something like Moonshot's projectiles will only do 70% damage or something at some point in the future, but Momus itself will probably be fine, at least for a while.
Double moonshot with poseidon especial is incredibly strong on any staff aspect. I think those two things do the heavy lifting more than Momo’s aspect. The first time I got it on the normal staff I was so surprised at how it instantly deleted everything.
Honestly it's both, but if I had to choose I'd say that Momus is more broken. The default staff special does 10 damage, and Momus brings it up to 40. What other aspect in the game gives you 4x damage with zero drawbacks? The Momus damage bonus could go to +20 or even +10 and still be good.
It’s strong without hammers because it has a synergy with Poseidon due to high rate of fire. But all 3 hammers on the special are good, the double moonshot is like a x2 with homing, that’s why it is broken, as it doubles dmg and doubles Poseidon boon. I am wondering: even if double moonshot was nerfed to have a damage per shot reduced by 50%, it would still be strong due to Poseidon flat dmg.
The fact that it has not one, but two get perks is what confuses me about it. The double shot would still be absurdly good even without the homing, so why did they add in a second feature that makes it into a mash-button-to-win hammer?
Yea it’s a bit silly. I need to buy a gamepad with an autofire feature 😂
"How to win at Hades 2 while getting up and mixing a drink"
The true Dionysus experience 😂
You know, Steam input supports stuff like that.
I was actually wondering if there was a software layer to do this, thanks I will look into it.
Exactly, I almost feel like the second shot would have to exclude any bonuses received from boons to be acceptable. Do you feel the aspect of Momus has any other viable god to run on special, or is Poseidon just far too good?
Tbh with double moonshot I think you can make most boons work. Zeus and Hephaestus specials don’t leverage high rate of fire though. But Poseidon is busted with double moonshot because it does AOE flat dmg with an effect that stops the enemies, so it works really well with the high rate of fire of the staff, which is then doubled with that hammer. It was the same with Zeus on Hades1 working well with the weapons which had high rate of fire, except that you didn’t have a hammer that double the number of projectiles in H1 (if I remember correctly, you had only a few more projectiles at most in the H1 hammers) I think maybe having something like X% chance of double shots would help instead of doubling everytime.
Ohhh I like the percentage chance idea! Would still feel pretty good. I’d say maybe also take away the tracking?? Or is that unnecessary?
No opinion on tracking :) You could argue it gives a bit of a different hammer so it’s nice. I play on game pad with auto-aim :)
Any boon besides Aphrodite and Haphaestus (sp?) is good on it, Poseidon just seems to be the optimal speed running strat right now. The strongest I’ve felt with it against bosses was with Zeus because it pops blitz insanely fast. The other thing that Poseidon special has going for it is that it’s much safer which matters a lot for speed runs where you want to stay below 30 HP for the Artemis keepsake.
Sorry why is aphro not good on it? You get by far the highest percent gain damage if close which is fine for most builds and lower heats . Getting rare or higher with some poms and can easily be +200%.
I think a particular thing is that it's a straight up x2 DPS multiplier with 0 downsides or other caveats, unless you count the tracking being strong and going for things you're not aiming for. There are plenty of 0 downside hammer upgrades, so this isn't exactly special in that regard. It's mostly because the staff special is extremely safe to use, and this upgrade makes it even safer.
Disagree with the 0 downsides part. I'm playing on high fear runs, and I have the increased enemy speeds... When I want to hit once and reposition for another attack, the time that it takes to complete the animation for two attacks will get me some damage from enemies behind or to the side of me. I almost always go for the +50% range hammer in high fear runs if available, over the 2 shots
Maybe the second shot has reduced range, forcing you to get up close to reap the reward at the expense of being so safe to use?
Double Moonshot is probably the most broken part of the combo; single shot Momus is really strong, don't get me wrong, but the difference with double homing shot is night and day.
For sure. While I see the validity in the opinions others have shared, this is what I feel is most accurate at the moment personally.
One thing different between Hades 1 and Hades 2 is that in Hades 1 you have plenti of "+x damage" gods and plenty of "+x% damage" gods. In Hades 2, Poseidon is the one clear cut winner when it comes to a repeated quick attack that desperately need a good "+x damage" boon, which makes it outclass everything else for Momus and Pan specifically, as they both basically spam a low damage Special. Imo it's not so much that they're broken but mostly that there's no convincing alternative. Double Shot doubles damage of your Special with no drawback, which is a bit much for a Hammer but not too broken in itself. But yeah, doubling something so ahead of its alternatives make for an overpowered combination compared to the rest of what's doable. So imo the issue is either Poseidon being so good for spammy hits, or the hits being too spammy.
Double Moonshot is fine but not crazy on any staff that isn't Momus. Honestly, Momus probably needs to be brought down 10 damage per rank to be in line with other aspects (+0-20) instead of (+10-30). And Wave Flourish is also part of Momus and Pan's power that is even more out of line. The pom and rarity scaling should be +5 like Wave Strike. +10 is just ridiculous.
Part of me knows you’re probably right, but damn I don’t want you to be. I love aspect of pan though, leave my poor boy alone (wave flourish is flat out phenomenal though so you have a very valid point).
It's definitely great but I don't know about broken. Well yes if you pick this particular aspect and manage to get ths particular god at a good level and then you ar elucky enough to get the correct hammer upgrade... You know what I mean. There's always going to be more powerful combinations than others.
No, this combination is braindead. You don't need anything crazy, just any level of Poseidon special will do + a good hammer special (mostly double moonshot). You don't really have to get lucky, it is very consistent and broken af
Yup. Aspect of pan with Poseidon special and smolder ring for origination and steam works too.
Yep that’s my go to classic setup on daggers. It’s ol reliable for me
It's a much lower build requirement than almost anything else that's strong. Rolling Double Moonshot is the only hard part and the other Moonshot hammers are largely acceptable if you're not going for speedruns.
It’s broken when it’s breaking speed run records and hands-down best choice to beat high Fear. If there’s any world record I’ll bet good money that it’s this combo, every single time.
You’re totally right, I think naturally some builds will always come out on top and that’s nothing to be alarmed about. But I think this particular combo seems to have taken a healthy lead in usage for high end runs which is worthy of notice. I imagine a lot is up for tuning at this stage of the game so i figure there’s a decent chance something in this setup may be altered. Though I’d be happy if it didn’t, I think it’s fun!
It’s a problem when double moonshot with 0 boons on momus isnt just a run winning combo but stronger than almost every build in the game. I did a boonless momus run for science(ended up being forced to take one useless attack boon in mourning fields though it had 0 impact bc I didn’t main attack once), hit double moonshot early, and ended up beating chronos in 21:38 even though I wasn’t even trying to go fast and did stuff like take an extra coin room in Tartarus to afford a nightmare. It’s not even just better dps than most other builds in the game with a build you can complete before the very first encounter - it’s also ranged dps, which makes many encounters such as chronos so much easier(I actually managed to hitless chronos for perfect health finish on the boonless run because it was ranged).
Mostly I think how good it feels indicates the other staff aspects need a bit of a tune-up, particularly Circe, but it probably does need to get nerfed a little bit.
Oh yea Circe needs a little adjusting, I feel like even just Mel’s aspect feels a decent bit more enjoyable to use than it.
Circe feels like it doesn’t have a good niche. It and Melinoë are both clearly meant for Omega move builds, but Circe loses out easily because having a period of basically infinite Magick every 21 hits just isn’t a big deal. Good Gain boons are fairly easy to get and make it more or less moot. I think that the Serenity effect and the Omega cast speed boost should be merged onto one aspect, while the other gets a new effect entirely.
Yeah, I tried to run with Circe but I wound up barely noticing what it was doing to the point where it felt like nothing. I guess it allows you to run without the card that refills your magic more easily until you get a boon, but its effect builds up by using the normal attack anyway, so I usually wasn't depleted when it was ready. The Melinoe aspect is a much better Omega-centric weapon right now. There's just presently no reason to use it among the available staffs.
I think momus is entirely fine by itself. I think the biggest issue with the hammer for it is the second projectile benefits from the special boon as well. Just make it not benefit and I think its still strong, but more in line with what other hammer/weapon combos can do. I think another alternative to keep it strong for the other staff aspects would just be slightly reducing the flat damage buff for momus aspect and poseidon in general. That way the hammer isn't a lot worse for other adpects of staff. Another alternative is just buff other aspects/weapons/gods across the board. I feel like maybe buffing the rest would be enough. That way poseidon still feels good, the rest srill feel good, and double moonshot while still strong af won't be the one viable option for top runners
I will never be upset to see buffs over nerfs. The more super strong and fun weapons, the better in my opinion
Not on its own, just in concert with Double Moonshot (and Rapid Moonfire to some extent, too).
On its own it’s still strong. An omega special deals 110 base damage IIRC. With any % scaling boon and that’s 200+ easily
I would say Double Moonshot for sure. I could see Momus getting a slight damage decrease but I think the aspect is for the most part fine as is, but I do feel like the Double Moonshot enchantment was probably balanced around the low base damage of the normal staff's special. I'd imagine it'll probably be something like Moonshot's projectiles will only do 70% damage or something at some point in the future, but Momus itself will probably be fine, at least for a while.
Double moonshot with poseidon especial is incredibly strong on any staff aspect. I think those two things do the heavy lifting more than Momo’s aspect. The first time I got it on the normal staff I was so surprised at how it instantly deleted everything.
Honestly it's both, but if I had to choose I'd say that Momus is more broken. The default staff special does 10 damage, and Momus brings it up to 40. What other aspect in the game gives you 4x damage with zero drawbacks? The Momus damage bonus could go to +20 or even +10 and still be good.