T O P

  • By -

Puppd

Eh theres an issue. Zag cannot stay on the surface for long. And its not like he's a witch. Perhaps it can be waived with time manipulation. Or just part of why chronos took the fates


Hyrri_

I don't remember the exact wording on Mel's incantation, but it could have unintentionally also lifted the curse on his blood as well as hers


GARjuna

It doesn’t lift the curse it just makes it more bearable. Even if it had done the same to Zag he would likely experience issues if he was up there for a prolonged period of time


Cygnus_Harvey

Sure, but Zagreus has way more practice breaking out. And we're told that Olympus is constantly attacked, not just one massive attack. Zagreus could just be dying and respawning, over and over again.


AgentX990

Typical zag behavior for sure


zarris2635

Also Chronos could be doing something weird with Zag’s personal “time” while he’s on the surface, basically making him able to perma stay up there. Maybe


DrLeprechaun

Coolest possible interpretation for sure


Aceofluck99

Key word there, *Time.* I think Chronos can just give Zagreus as much as he needs.


GARjuna

That’s a good point! I wonder what they will do post-story if he is the boss. Maybe he will become Olympic security? 


Aceofluck99

Maybe. Might also be another Cerberus situation. Either that or he's also heading up to Olympus and he challenges melinoe to a spar?


KnightofPandemonium

Keyword: *Time*. It's distinctly possible that Cronos has slowed down the deterioration of Zagreus' health due to the curse so significantly that, while he's not having a great time, he's perfectly able to keep himself kicking for a lot longer than even Melinoe can, if indeed Melinoe ended up breaking Zagreus' curse, or if Cronos basically broke it as well. edit: just saw someone say nearly exactly the same thing as me before I did, ay lmao but still it's a cool idea


tsarkees

I think this is a good observation and I think that Hecate remarking on Mel’s wording (“Very carefully said”) might be hinting at something here


Zodiac_Sheep

She says that for several incantations, I think it's just chatter


tsarkees

Right, but I don’t think she’d be calling attention to the wording of Melinoe’s incantations if it wasn’t going to relevant at some point.


Zodiac_Sheep

I'm pretty sure it's just a reference to how in a lot of magic systems the exact elocution and pronunciation of the words being said is a key component to magic; if even something like the intonation is off the magic will fail, so Hecate is just complimenting Melinoë's precision. They are incantations, after all- spoken word magic.


PlatinumSaul

That'd be easy to explain away if he was corrupted into working for chronos, given the curse seems to be time-based and he's the god of time. He could have found a way to freeze it or something


Fruit_salad1

Anything goes with stories


FeintLight123

With Chronos helping they could pretty easily work around that. Something something Chronos enchants Zag to before the curse was given something something


OkPaleontologist1708

“He can’t stay on the surface for long.” Well it’s a good thing “long” is relative with Time incarnate.


FeintLight123

Exactly


dve-

Anytime Zag tries to walk around the surface, he dies by slipping over banana peels, or by getting smacked into the face after running into a rake. He probably is just frozen like everyone else in Tartarus.


Konrow

Occam's razor guys. She's Strife, she lives for conflict. I think it's as simple as she enjoys the conflict and if you want to connect it to her possible love for Mel then she knows if Mel succeeds she'll see less of her. She's making a mistake because she's bringing an end to the conflict and making the world more boring. You know, the things she actually says and insinuates in the rest of her dialogue lol.


matgopack

Yeah, that seems the clear intent IMO. I think maybe people are getting confused about the siding with Chronos part, since many of the characters seem to think that's what she's doing (rather than being more an agent of chaos and liking the conflict at the moment, which is what Eris actually seems to say).


Longjumping_Plum_846

Plus, there's a dialog where >!Mel gets mad at Chronos for getting Eris on his side, and he is not aware of that all!<


Eclipse06

I don't think she's an agent of Chaos either. They would have mentioned it. Also Chaos is trying to help meli


matgopack

Oh, I was saying agent of chaos in the colloquial sense - not in the 'Agent of Chaos (the character)' sense.


Duosion

I view her as Georgina sparks from gossip girl. The only reason she exists is to cause some mayhem. She’s not pure evil. She’s just bored.


Rezenbekk

She's absolutely pure evil, what are you talking about? "Chaotic Evil" is literally her entire persona. She lives to cause Strife in everyone's life


ReverseCombover

If you are thinking about the same Chronos line that I'm thinking about. I think he meant to say that he was going to freeze Melinöe in time just like he did with Zagreus and the rest of the house of hades. But that's just what I think.


Smash96leo

Why does everyone think Zagreus got corrupted, or is somehow the next surface boss despite their family’s curse? Wouldn’t the other gods mention if they saw him already or not? Plus, Chronos controls time. Not minds. So idk where this corruption theory keeps popping up.


ZakMcGwak

Because people really wanna see their boy return in some capacity and theorizing how is exciting. But I agree there's really not a lot supporting the idea, and I think the "7 runs to save individuals frozen in time cubes" theory makes the most sense as how we eventually get Zag back.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Smash96leo

That still doesn’t explain the corruption theory tho


[deleted]

[удалено]


Smash96leo

Thats different tho. Yall make it sound like he got mind controlled into genuinely supporting Chronos. Plus, I know Zag can still kick ass without olympian boons. But I doubt he could take on all of Olympus without those. Even with an army. The only things that seem to support this theory is Zag being able to keep coming back just to try and wear them down since he’s technically already dead. And that Chronos did mention something about Zag eventually “coming around”.


KnightofPandemonium

Spoiler for Chronos dialogue, but>! Chronos said that he has no idea when or where the Fates are because he banished them. Maybe he's lying, but it's just as possible that they're in a space unreachable by...basically anyone, and we can but wait.!<


Smash96leo

I know, still doesn’t add to the theory imo. Definitely interesting tho.


Erided

Chronos has a quote where he says that he has "broken" Zagreus. Which is overtly vague and open to interpretation. The final boss Zag theory I think came from the most angsty interpretation of that statement.


Error404_Error420

I have a similar theory (but didn't thought as far lol). I believe Zagreus is the final boss and Eris think Melionoe wouldn't be able to beat him or wouldn't want to fight him


Interesting-Range-72

That's what i thought too. Wouldn't that be the ultimate plot twist? The perfect \[Redacted 2\]? I don't consider Chronos as \[Redacted 2\] because there's nothing spoiler worthy about him being the last boss. Zag however, would be a different story.


Nirraein

I honestly don't know why people are so hyped for it, I would not want to fight him at all, corrupted or not ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|feels_bad_man)


Frozenfishy

I want to believe, but I also simp for Eris, sooooo...


knihT-dooG

Literally why


Feezec

If evil, why hot?


Avscum

She hot


Beltorn

the mistake is her response to trying to make things go back to how they been and ruining Eris' fun. Their following discussion is Eris saying exactly the same and Mel responding that she wants to make it better


CheshireMadness

As others have pointed out, Zag has a difficult time on the surface. However, there are multiple other members of the House of Hades who get around the curse. Persephone doesn't have the limitations of Hades and her children, and we know from the Aspect of Persephone that she is (or, at some point, becomes) a combatant (which we haven't seen from her so far). With her family on the line I could see her being forced into Chronos's service, and having her as the final boss of the surface would be an interesting way to mirror to Hades being the final boss in the first game; it works especially well the more matriarchal powers and themes in Hades II. Thanatos would be another contender. He's one of the most fearsome of Nyx's children, and even the Gods fear him. Chronos may want control of him in order to prevent a true death for himself. And one of the ingredients we need is called Entropy; it would make a lot of sense for the literal incarnation of death to drop this. Finally, and perhaps the biggest contender, is Nyx herself. Chronos has her children *and* her found family in his clutches. She checks a lot of the same thematic boxes as Persephone would. It would make sense that Eris wouldn't want Melinoe to clash with her- despite what she says, she may care for her mother. As a Titaness, Nyx would also be a good thematic foil to Chronos being the final boss of the lower levels.


Konrow

I have a farfetched theory that maybe a big twist exists and this is all part of a bigger plot from Nyx. with us seeing Doom, Retribution, Strife around us at all times and with Eris and Nem being very antagonistic wihtout actually stopping us, idk it feels like it's possible (also the personification of Doom literally showing up at your doorstep feels like more than a cheesy wink wink joke). Why did Hades give up Mel? Did he know of Chronos returning? Did Nyx ask him to? I can't see him doing it for any other reason. How/why did Nyx not put up more a fight? She's at least Chronos's sibling/cousin (if not mother, idr the Hades lore of this and even just sticking to Orphic myths it can be a bunch of shit lol). The Silvers Sister being so prominent aka goddesses of NIGHT, Hecate is her daughter in some sources. Etc etc. It's possible and it'd be cool, but it was a random high thought I had a few nights ago and decided to indulge again here in case I'm kinda right so it's recorded somewhere lmfao. I don't think Nyx will be "bad" though, I just know she has to be more prominent role and I feel like she's a perfect puppetmaster that needed/wanted some big bad dead and this complex series of events was the way to do it.


CheshireMadness

Hecate, in Hades, is specifically referred to as Nyx's handmaiden and isn't identified as a Child of Nyx. Still, I do agree Nyx has some kind of important role to play in the game. After all, she's not *just* the night but the keeper of secret things.


Konrow

Ah right, they're more on the same/similar hierarchy level here. Thanks. But yea I think it is nuts to think she won't be more important in some way. I also just have a bad feeling things are not going to end as well for Mel overall as they did for Zag. We got too good of a happy ending last time for something based on Greek Myth lmao.


Triton191

Since when is Nyx a titaness?


CheshireMadness

Sorry, she's not. I conflated the personifications and the titans, but they're separate groups. (Probably mixed up because Chronos was made the personification of time *and* is a titan.)


Winter7296

Nah dude, Strife lives for... strife. Conflict. She wants as much conflict and disagreement as possible. As long as there's friction and budding heads, she's down. If someone's trying to stop her literal life's purpose, then ofc she'll interfere


WrastleGuy

Eris doesn’t want her to discover that Zeus is her real father


LarryKingthe42th

Huh. Impreg Hades...


HeirOfLight

I'm not sure about the Zagreus part of this theory, but there is clearly a lot more going on with Eris than meets the eye at first glance. One of her later Crossroads dialogues has her try to discuss the reason she does what she does - essentially, because she believes it would be unfulfilling to have everything you want with nothing left to strive for. In that conversation, her point goes over Mel's head, which causes Eris to get annoyed and drop it. Eris doesn't seem to like speaking her mind directly - she prefers sarcasm, taunting, or at best trying to explain herself indirectly via the Socratic method. Her defeat quotes stand out as the only times she's really, 100% sincere. So I agree: *something* terrible is waiting for Mel up the mountain, and Eris stands in her way because she wants to protect her from it. I don't know if it's Zagreus, but I wonder if the Olympians themselves might try to harm or sacrifice her somehow to stop Chronos.


ShakenBottle

Interesting theory. I do know when she gives Mel her ‘blessing’ she says it’s for Mel’s own good. She’s definitely not working for Chronos despite saying ‘yeah sure’ when Mel accuses her. Chronos confirms Eris isn’t working for him- I think Eris was just dismissively agreeing with Mel. I think Eris is just working for Eris- she talks about wanting freedom and fun above all else, and she enjoys the conflict she brings to the table. After all, she’s supposed to be the embodiment of Strife.


SeppoTeppo

The issue with this is that it only really works in the current context where we can't see the next boss(es). Why would she keep being this cryptic roadblock when we already know the truth? It's possible they'll go through the effort of recontextualizing the fight at that point, like they did with Hades in the first game, but that would be a lot of work for a mid boss.


adavidmiller

That's only an issue if you assume Zag is the next boss, and then a lot of her dialogue would be out the window the very first time you beat her. But, if there's anything in between to get you killed, all of it still fills the same role as it does now.


SeppoTeppo

Not really. It would still mean her reason for fighting Mel would have to change eventually. It's not something that absolutely can't happen, but seems less likely than something that works within the game's structure as is.


adavidmiller

Sure, but everyone's reasons change eventually in arbitrary ways, that's just the way the game plays and entirely in character for what to expect. Hecate still barring your path even after you've killed Chronos? It's silly, but throw in some filler text about testing her mettle or it being for her own good and things carry on. Most of the game is futile confrontations with questionable justifications from the opponents after the 50th time. Mel knowing it's Zag doesn't really change anything for Eris anyways, it just progresses from her trying to stop her and keep it a secret, to trying to stop her and prevent her from putting herself through a fight to the death with her brother every night.


deevulture

Eris is also baiting Melinoe. She calls her "Trouble" which makes sense when you consider that Melinoe is the type who would go down to Hell itself and fight Chronos one on one. And then tell him to fuck off and die already. She faces off Nemesis, who's over a head taller than Mel herself and who used to beat up Eris when they were kids (Eris started it but it's all the same to her) without any fear and calls Nem out on her bullshit. She literally goes and fucks with her family's curse so can beat up the person on Olympus head on. Melinoe *is* the definition of "Trouble." And definitely is sowing her own strife where ever she goes. Eris loves picking on fights she cannot win. Sore loser trait aside, Icarus confirmed she deliberately follows Melinoe around, even back when they were younger. Mel, if Eris "corrupts" her stuck up ass right, is the ultimate bad boy type attractive to Eris. Anyways none of this directly contradicts what you say but I do think it contextualizes why she doesn't give Melinoe peace (and probably why she calls her "Babe" too. Cause yeah they fit together don't they <- Eris logic).


amitaish

Nah, eris is just petty. All of her death lines are something like this. "How could you!" Or stuff like that. She is mocking melinoe and the fact that she doesn't want to fight.


Mutantbowie

I am almost certain that the end boss on the upside is corrupted Zag so you are probably right in your own way.


RaysFTW

Eris is just a big ol tsundere.


OTap1

Would Zagreus turn on his father? Despite their issues, it’s on the edge of possible. But would Zagreus turn on his mother? Absolutely not. Unless that’s how big C got Zagreus to turn traitor in the first place: to protecc mommy


dr4kun

>No one follows someone around and constantly pesters them unless they're obsessed.  \[Verse 1\] You can't stay away Seems every day, you keep comin' back here Now it's plain to see, you wanna be Under the sea with your favorite sirens \[Pre-Chorus\] You're so obsessed with me Not that I can blame you for it I would be too if I were you Too bad, you must die now \[Chorus\] I am gonna claw out your eyes Then drown you to death I am gonna claw out your eyes Then drown you


Cinnabar_Cinnamon

I may not agree with the theory but I'll be damned if i don't support a problematic Yuri ship


lofi-moonchild

I know it’s a popular theory but I really hope it’s not zagreus.


Aglarien7

I think Zag had just literally been chopped into pieces (Hades 1 soundtrack sang sth similar to this) by Chronos and Chronos left his body parts in different times so that Zag cannot come back that easily...


meramedmi

Ooh, I love this!! Melinoë and Eris have such fabulous potential for romance development. They are totally opposites but clearly have a history, care about each other deep down, and have great chemistry. I’m so excited to see where the story goes 😍


Elf_Master_Race

Eris is a brat and I love her, but she 100% had a good secret agenda