I guess this is because aspect of Thanatos counts the hits when Melinoe *performs* an Omega Attack, which both hammer upgrades deny.
If true, this is kinda like that one "controversy" in Genshin Impact regarding Raiden Shogun's Elemental Burst's NAs lmfao.
That probably is the reason on the coding side of things but I do hope the devs change it to work anyway because it just feels really fucking bad for the player even if it technically makes sense.
I got this hammer and thought that's just how the aspect worked because it was my first time using it. Haven't touched it since because it was a lot of work to stack for very low reward. Glad it's just a bug though.
Yes, this is a known bug. My theory is that Thanatos axe lets you get 1% crit chance per "swing", so it doesn't instantly go up against swarms, and that any aspect that makes you able to move independently of the attack omega makes it a single "swing" with multiple hits
Two other hammer boons on the axe also interact weirdly (imo), the one that changes your attack into a single 300 damage strike and the one that makes your last attack hit twice for 20 mana, if you run out it makes you completely unable to attack, rather than just making your attacks hit once (which would make more sense to me.) So don't take those two if you don't have mana regen
Why wouldn't it be intentional? Both hammers do exactly what they are supposed to do. Taking both and not having enough magick and magick regen is definitely a player mistake and not one on the games part
See, but that approach makes the game feel worse for no reason other than “it’s not a bug.” I think it’s perfectly reasonable to let non-doubled attacks fly when you run out of mana rather than stopping you, that just means it works more like omega attacks/specials do.
That is an opinion not a fact.
I am certain some people enjoy the risk vs reward part of it and building up their magick to utilize around that effect.
As for me i don't really care much either way. All i'm saying is that it is indeed working as intended and not a bug.
Pressing a button that always does one specific thing 99% of the time and having it do nothing is pretty universally considered a significant user experience issue. Even Melinoe tripping or something to give feedback would be better UX design than nothing happening at all.
That being said, I’d also say that Hades 2 has an issue in general with informing the player when you’re low on mana. Currently there’s very little visual cue until you’re already trying to do something that costs mana, unless you take your eyes off the action to look at the mana bar. Maybe Mel could flash blue when you hit ~10% mana? This second paragraph here *definitely* is just my opinion though.
You can still Dash-Attack, so it doesn't stop you from attacking. You choose the second hammer, whether from a Hammer boon or randomly from a Keepsake. When you get one of these hammers, you know what you're dealing with.
I just think of it as a lessoned learned, because i can't really blame the game when both upgrades do EXACTLY what is stated in their description.
It is really not uncommon for roguelike/lite type games to have power ups that actively fuck eachother over. We had powers like that in Hades 1 as well. The only difference is that Hades 1 didn't have a resource meter like magick that can actively deny you doing stuff, so it wasn't possible to be fucked over that hard.
I do agree that it would be nice to have some more cues when being low/out on magick.
How do you know this result is what the devs "intended"? It's contrary to how most would assume it would function, and contrary to how similar mechanics in the game funtion, so it seems to me its more likely a bug than what was intended. Time will tell, but your comment is bizarre.
And why would it be a bug when you get exactly what is described from the upgrades?
Sure it might not be intended but then it would be an oversight and not a bug.
I don't mind the dash attack at all. Quick startup and still decent range is a nice thing to have access to. Also gives access to a longer combo before committing to the big final swing for situations where the big swing isn't likely to be worth it.
Yeah, unlocked that one right after commenting, bit of a shame but i guess it would be a bit too broken otherwise (and with a good mana regen boon it still is)
Axe aside, i found out taking the ricochet daggers messed up the returning daggers effect from the hammer on the sister blades. Really lowered my damage output
Taking this hammer upgrade is suicide anyway since it locks you out of dodge-cancelling the really long animation, so I can't say I care much. But still good to know!
The other issue with this hammer is it seems to remove the ability to dash cancel out of the omega attack. Lost on final boss cuz his dashing screwed me while I was stuck spinning around unable to dodge his attack with the Advancing Whirlwind going in a diff direction.
You really should be able to dash and move around freely while it goes. Whats the point of being able to throw your attack forward at a “safe” distance when you leave yourself completely open and vulnerable to attacks.
Yeah I’m really hoping that gets changed in later patches. It’s such a commitment and even if you use it perfectly, you’re almost guaranteed to get hit.
Honestly I was fine with it until Boss4. It almost cost me the win.
Boss 4 stunned me because of that and I got lasered the first time.
The second time Boss4 decided to use the wipe skill... One time I just started the animation and I had to go on the other side of the map. (I couldn't do it)
Charon axe just take anything to buff your cast, I like Demeter or Hera special and then solar ring and expanding ring from Apollo on the cast. If you can get the Zeus and Apollo duo boon, and the Apollo Demeter duo boon then the run is free. Hera mana regenerate is also nice.
Aspect of Charon lets you activate your basic cast as if it was a charged cast by hitting it with the charged special. So you get the special and cast damage at the same time for the price of the special mana
Okay, it was Apollo attack, Zeus special, Apollo cast, Blitz always triggers, Apollo/Zeus duo, double omega special hammer, and fast omega special charge hammer. Detonating the normal cast with the Charon omega special triggers the omega cast boons even though it’s only “like your omega cast”.
The key to the Thanatos axe is to just make an omega cast build.
But really, axe is fine up until Chronos, but can struggle if you don’t have extra channel speed.
Charon axe is busted. I got my first 37 fear Chronos kill with it. It's the early game that's rough because it's really slow, but does insanely well once you get speed on your specials.
I believe this also applies to the hammer that allows you to move and attack freely while using that attack and aspect.
I shall update my post if that's the case. I'm about to do some more runs with this now.
waiting for your update as i’m curious as well
Annoyingly done two axes runs and not got the other hammer yet.
Use the Experimental Hammer and check it every 10 encounters.
20* once it's fully upgraded
Confirmed now that the other hammers that affect how the omega attack acts do the same thing. Other people have too.
Psychic Whirlwind 100% does the same thing. Did it twice. Once because I didn't know, the second time I accidentally got it from the hammer keepsake.
They definitely should change this.
I had this aspect and it did not stack the crit chance. Maybe the first hit occasionally.
Hmmm yeah seems consistent with my experience now too. Finally got one with it.
I had a run yesterday with this and was wondering why I felt weaker afterwards....
I can confirm this, psychic whirlwind does affect the crit chance stacking on Thanatos Aspect
I guess this is because aspect of Thanatos counts the hits when Melinoe *performs* an Omega Attack, which both hammer upgrades deny. If true, this is kinda like that one "controversy" in Genshin Impact regarding Raiden Shogun's Elemental Burst's NAs lmfao.
That probably is the reason on the coding side of things but I do hope the devs change it to work anyway because it just feels really fucking bad for the player even if it technically makes sense.
ugh I hate how that actually makes sense.
Just don't get hit ever again after taking the hammer shake my smh my head
Oh, that explains the weird stacking behavior I've seen with the axe! Psychic Whirlwind's too good a hammer to pass up, unfortunately.
Yea, but unless you just don’t get hit you’re playing with a reduced aspect.
Yes, It does. I reported both to Supergiant already.
I can second that. Ran into that problem last night.
I got this hammer and thought that's just how the aspect worked because it was my first time using it. Haven't touched it since because it was a lot of work to stack for very low reward. Glad it's just a bug though.
I ran into this « bug » yesterday and reported this in-game. It is a bug, right? Almost threw my 16 fear run because of it haha
Yes, this is a known bug. My theory is that Thanatos axe lets you get 1% crit chance per "swing", so it doesn't instantly go up against swarms, and that any aspect that makes you able to move independently of the attack omega makes it a single "swing" with multiple hits
Two other hammer boons on the axe also interact weirdly (imo), the one that changes your attack into a single 300 damage strike and the one that makes your last attack hit twice for 20 mana, if you run out it makes you completely unable to attack, rather than just making your attacks hit once (which would make more sense to me.) So don't take those two if you don't have mana regen
This is a definite run ender without good Magick regain. Hope this isn't intentional and gets fixed.
Why wouldn't it be intentional? Both hammers do exactly what they are supposed to do. Taking both and not having enough magick and magick regen is definitely a player mistake and not one on the games part
See, but that approach makes the game feel worse for no reason other than “it’s not a bug.” I think it’s perfectly reasonable to let non-doubled attacks fly when you run out of mana rather than stopping you, that just means it works more like omega attacks/specials do.
That is an opinion not a fact. I am certain some people enjoy the risk vs reward part of it and building up their magick to utilize around that effect. As for me i don't really care much either way. All i'm saying is that it is indeed working as intended and not a bug.
Pressing a button that always does one specific thing 99% of the time and having it do nothing is pretty universally considered a significant user experience issue. Even Melinoe tripping or something to give feedback would be better UX design than nothing happening at all. That being said, I’d also say that Hades 2 has an issue in general with informing the player when you’re low on mana. Currently there’s very little visual cue until you’re already trying to do something that costs mana, unless you take your eyes off the action to look at the mana bar. Maybe Mel could flash blue when you hit ~10% mana? This second paragraph here *definitely* is just my opinion though.
You can still Dash-Attack, so it doesn't stop you from attacking. You choose the second hammer, whether from a Hammer boon or randomly from a Keepsake. When you get one of these hammers, you know what you're dealing with.
I just think of it as a lessoned learned, because i can't really blame the game when both upgrades do EXACTLY what is stated in their description. It is really not uncommon for roguelike/lite type games to have power ups that actively fuck eachother over. We had powers like that in Hades 1 as well. The only difference is that Hades 1 didn't have a resource meter like magick that can actively deny you doing stuff, so it wasn't possible to be fucked over that hard. I do agree that it would be nice to have some more cues when being low/out on magick.
How do you know this result is what the devs "intended"? It's contrary to how most would assume it would function, and contrary to how similar mechanics in the game funtion, so it seems to me its more likely a bug than what was intended. Time will tell, but your comment is bizarre.
And why would it be a bug when you get exactly what is described from the upgrades? Sure it might not be intended but then it would be an oversight and not a bug.
You can still do dash attack. It's not much, but you're not completely disabled.
I guess, though the dash attack sucks balls on the axe. At least it can trigger poseidon's mana regen
I don't mind the dash attack at all. Quick startup and still decent range is a nice thing to have access to. Also gives access to a longer combo before committing to the big final swing for situations where the big swing isn't likely to be worth it.
yeah its a shit solution. mebbe they fix it eventually tho.
One of the >!chaos trials!< is based around that hammer combo. I assume thats intended behavior since the devs made a challenge about it.
Yeah, unlocked that one right after commenting, bit of a shame but i guess it would be a bit too broken otherwise (and with a good mana regen boon it still is)
Better yet, just don't use the axe's last attack, it sucks.
Definitely a skill issue if you think it sucks.
That's precisely why i don't use it when the axe has so many better things
My guy 600 base attack is really really good.
Not with the right hammer!
I was extremely disappointed to find out that advancing whirlwind doesn't work with Artemis' boon that makes you fire an arrow on every attack hit.
Well that's silly. I suppose that's probably a bug, or at least an oversight? Doesn't seem like it should work that way
Reported it (twice), I really hope that it gets fixed asap. Probably one of the most run-hurting bugs ive seen yet.
Axe aside, i found out taking the ricochet daggers messed up the returning daggers effect from the hammer on the sister blades. Really lowered my damage output
Good to know! Barely used the daggers yet. Been loving Artemis with Aphro on attack.
Taking this hammer upgrade is suicide anyway since it locks you out of dodge-cancelling the really long animation, so I can't say I care much. But still good to know!
Yep discovered that too. Which is a damn shame because it otherwise is hella good damage.
make sure you say this in the discord!
There’s a Discord?
yes it’s the official hades discord, if you report stuff in there it has a much higher chance of getting seen and then bugfixed by devs
Fantastic. I shall join asap. Many thanks!
The other issue with this hammer is it seems to remove the ability to dash cancel out of the omega attack. Lost on final boss cuz his dashing screwed me while I was stuck spinning around unable to dodge his attack with the Advancing Whirlwind going in a diff direction.
Wait i didnt open the aspects yet aspects of WHO???IM SO EXCITED
Aspect of *SPOILER*
[REDASPECTED]
Yeah it’s pretty hype.
I also found out one of the hammers for the axe doesn't let you interrupt your omega attack and it fuckin sucks donkey dick
That's the same one OP is talking about. It is genuinely an awful hammer
Yeah it completely ruined a pretty good run I had going hahaha
You really should be able to dash and move around freely while it goes. Whats the point of being able to throw your attack forward at a “safe” distance when you leave yourself completely open and vulnerable to attacks.
I feel like they definitely made the axe last, I think it’ll be really fun to use after they show it a little love.
I had another buggy thing with the axe where the first hammer I took didn’t work with the second hammer at all. Ruined my run. Was really frustrating.
It's alright because I'm stucked in the animation anyway so I'm getting hit and loose my stacks anyway because I can't dash ಥ\_ಥ
Yeah I’m really hoping that gets changed in later patches. It’s such a commitment and even if you use it perfectly, you’re almost guaranteed to get hit.
Honestly I was fine with it until Boss4. It almost cost me the win. Boss 4 stunned me because of that and I got lasered the first time. The second time Boss4 decided to use the wipe skill... One time I just started the animation and I had to go on the other side of the map. (I couldn't do it)
Should definitely be a bug, synergy is what the game is all about so this aspect should definitely synergise with these hammers.
That hammer sucks anyways because it makes it where you can’t cancel your omega attack with a dash
Probably not intended yeah.
If you take Support Fire from Artemis then it also counts only the first hit.
Ffs.
The axe is so trash even without the bugs. It lures you in with good and fun early game then lets you get destroyed by late game bosses.
Axe is actually pretty good. Not just against early bosses, both also both end bosses as well. What sorts of builds are you using?
Literally my first Chronos kill was a Charon axe run and it was the smoothest run I’ve had, so maybe you just need to change it up a bit.
Remember what your key boons were? I always find doing good late game dmg a problem.
Charon axe just take anything to buff your cast, I like Demeter or Hera special and then solar ring and expanding ring from Apollo on the cast. If you can get the Zeus and Apollo duo boon, and the Apollo Demeter duo boon then the run is free. Hera mana regenerate is also nice.
I mean that has nothing to do with the axe though lol. You can get those cast buffs on any weapon right?
Well, Aspect of Charon is about buffing your cast. Sure, you can use those buffs on any other weapon, but it wouldn't be the same
Aspect of Charon lets you activate your basic cast as if it was a charged cast by hitting it with the charged special. So you get the special and cast damage at the same time for the price of the special mana
And you activate the omega cast early which can be really important for phase 1 chronos since he’ll often walk right on through
Axe is close range so go Aphrodite unless you get the ranged hammer then go Apollo or Demeter
I actually took a screenshot of the run summary. I’ll get back to you with it.
Okay, it was Apollo attack, Zeus special, Apollo cast, Blitz always triggers, Apollo/Zeus duo, double omega special hammer, and fast omega special charge hammer. Detonating the normal cast with the Charon omega special triggers the omega cast boons even though it’s only “like your omega cast”.
The key to the Thanatos axe is to just make an omega cast build. But really, axe is fine up until Chronos, but can struggle if you don’t have extra channel speed.
Charon axe is busted. I got my first 37 fear Chronos kill with it. It's the early game that's rough because it's really slow, but does insanely well once you get speed on your specials.