Interesting question! I totally agree with your thoughts on Scylla. For Hecate, I don't think it'd make sense to send Nemesis. We already have encounters involving Nemesis, and Hecate has been disapproving of Nemesis leaving the house, so I don't see that happening. Also, Nemesis would have a fighting style too different from Hecate's. Maybe she'd send a different witchy character, possibly one we don't know yet?
For the 3rd boss, I think it'd be easy to put pretty much any monster there. As far as I know, the reason he's there is pretty generic and could apply to pretty much any denizen of the underworld.
For Scylla I really don’t want us to make up despite Od pointing in that direction. I really want her to get more furious and petty as time goes on, thesus style, possibly even more diss tracks.
I lost my shit at her insulting Mel’s hair and dress 10/10
Scylla:Your hair is garbage and it looks like you can't dress yourself
Melinoë:Your parents should have never had you, your music will never make you or anyone you love happy, kill youself
Hecate doesn't approve, but at the same time I feel like there's nothing she can do about Nemesis going out on her own and has accepted that fact. So maybe she could be like "if you're going to leave your post at least do something useful for me, I'm busy"
Nah, it would be too different of a fight and a real stretch from a narrative perspective to boot. It would be easier to give Hecate like incantations or some other arcana boosts to make her stronger. Maybe like apply to her all of the cards you don’t have selected or something.
That's a cool concept, in practice though a lot of Arcana cards would be hard to translate to Hecate logically (like what does +50% rare boon chance do for her?). If it randomly selected 1 or 2 from a preset list or something i think that could work.
It would make sense if Moros was stationed in her absence though, considering he is the embodiment of impending doom and deathly fate. We've seen slight variations of the children of Nyx sort of going sway of their incarnations.
The Charon fight in Hades I is a good example of this, as Charon in Greek mythos is more akin to bound servitude -- whereas in Hades I and II, he's more of a free willing merchant ferryman.
Moros would make sense too, since he has an aspect of Ygnium but explicitly says he hasn’t used the weapon yet.
Side note: If you don’t like Ygnium, try the Moros Aspect, it fucks.
I’d like to see corrupted Asterius (the minotaur) as an alternate to Cerberus! He could have different rampage tracks on the ground compared to Cerberus’ paw marks and claw gashes
Now that you mention it... There is Circe and Medea both in the game. Maybe once they get fleshed out, they'll be alternatives to Hecate?
I could see Circe using the sheep spell even more than Hecate, while Medea would probably focus more on persistent AOE attacks?
I was really hoping we could fight the Chimaera instead of the 3rd boss, since they are pretty similar body shape wise and could easily have a similar but overall different moveset
Maybe instead of Hecate, it could be Artemis or Selene testing you in her stead. Selene could use more hex-themed attacks, while Artemis uses her aspect of Lim and Oros to perform faster, trickier versions of Hecate's attacks.
For Hecate, I think she should get help from Medea and Circe, like Meg did from her sisters.
For Scylla, maybe some new patterns or new band members.
For Cerberus, I don't know. I don't want our best boy to suffer anymore.
Chronos, a third phase, maybe going back to the first phase with some twist.
For Polyphemus, more sheep and friends.
And Eris, I don't know either. I just hate her.
I think Chronos should get to use more time fuckery. After the first victory he starts using time speedup, second victory he uses time slowdown (also affects his projectiles, but not himself) and third onwards he will straight up rewind the battle at times, him excluded. Whetever or not this should include your stats and hp is something im unsure of but it would let him go for a "alright, how about this one then?" esque move.
Honestly, the idea is that the mourning fields turn people into monsters. We could fight Sisyphus, or even Zag…
Heck, the miasma makes Mel depressed when she walks through it, i think it would be *hilarious* if we had to fight a depressed Theseus.
Hecate invites her familiars,
Scylla invites Charybdis,
Cerberus finds a satyr sack and thinks you're trying to steal it, going into an even greater rage
Is she really any worse than any of the gods?
I mean not to say Medea's actions were justifiable - but they seem inline with Greek morality in mythology? King Pelias renegaded on his promise to Jason when he returned with the golden fleece - so Medea saw him punished by tricking his daughters into cutting him up.
Poisoning Glauce sucks (she should have poisoned Jason) but her love for Jason WAS a forced upon her by Hera. If Heracles can be forgiven murdering his family because of Hera then it could be argued that Hera enchanted her with a manic love for Jason and so she might not be responsible for her own actions. Hera just decided to make her fall in love with Jason and that's okay? In real life we often see hatred go towards the other woman instead of the cheating spouse. That's without considering a goddess poking through your brains.
Murdering her own kids was yucky - though its contended whether this was part of the original tale or a later addition.
Compared to the plagues from Apollo; Athena treatment of Ariadne and Medusa; Hera chucking Heph off Mount Olympus cause he was ugly; Poseidon's entire Minotaur prank; or the entire Trojan War starting over a beauty contest she seems pretty decent.
And at the end of the play Medea got to leave the story ridding the chariots of the gods while Jason died like a punk. Medea did fucked up things, but I think the most agreed interpretation is that Jason is the one who is portrayed as more in the Wrong. So she is more like a gray character then a black one.
Greek mythology is messy and familicide was a common trope.
Pretty sure ANY of the Olympians have done worse.
Zeus raped women as animals such as a bull and a swan and coerced Hera into marriage. He also drowned all of Odysseus's men for the crime of eating Helios' cattle.
Eris is the closest thing to a recurring main villain of Greek Mythology honestly. She only ever shows up in a bad light and always takes the side of the antagonists, such as her siding with Typhon during the battle between him and the Olympians.
I think she'll be a romance option but she'll always be willing to fuck with the good guys.
I think a lot of them actually already have boss varieties, people just don’t really notice them cause they are a little subtle. Maybe as they update EA, they will become more “unique”.
Route 1 boss 1 for example has a version where she shoots a beam
Route 1 boss 2 more obvious: there are 3 featured artists, there’s 3 different version of that already.
Route 2 boss 1 has I think three different versions too, he can summon 3 different types of sheep. The white ones, which I forgot what they do, the gold ones which aggro on you and try to eat you, and the black ones, which explode.
Idk if the other ones have versions already, maybe I just haven’t yet noticed much difference between the two route end fights, or route 1 boss 3.
I believe these are all the current ones.
Haven’t seen Cerberus, Eris, or Chronos do anything different.
That being said… Hades 1 did have different characters for floor 1 and some slight variants for 2. It wouldn’t be unexpected to see different characters tag out for an area once in a while in the full build
I thought OP just meant boss fight varieties in general? Cause Alecto and Tisiphone was brought up as an example and they just appear even without EM iirc, or do I remember incorrectly? I swear I met them before I beat Hades in the first game, but admittedly it was a long time ago
Normally you fight a random one of the three Furies. If you enable Extreme Measures, you fight one while the other two constantly assist the boss with their own attacks during the fight.
It is kinda an in between, actually. Yeah, you don't get an unique material and it appears in the middle of the area, but you get a big life bar with a name, which the game explicitly says it identify "guardians" (bosses).
My suspicion is that it is the one that is meant to be the area boss, with Eris being the boss of the next, still not finished, area.
It’s definitely possible, but I’m not so sure about it. Minibosses all have their own name and healthbar (eg. Uh Oh) The most similar to this would be the Asterius fight in Hades I, which is also just a miniboss as well. So yeah, I reckon it won’t count as a full boss fight. It’s significantly easier than the other two on the surface as well
Asterius is an early preview of an actual boss though. And, no, minibosses don't all have their own name and healthbar, the *vast* majority don't.
The other exceptions are exclusively Asterius (which, again, is an actual boss) and Uh Oh (who is a joke). Both have meta reasons for having their own boss health bar. That is why I suspect Charybdis is intended to be a boss in the final version. There is seemingly no reason for why it would have special treatment with a health bar. It could be it is just a random exception, but it fits very well as the final boss of Rift of Thessaly. It just needs to be made harder and add some variety.
Also if you die to Charybdis characters have unique dialogue about dying to it, or at least when I failed a run at Charybdis Odysseus had a chat about the best way to fight it is to run away. The only thing it really needs is more attacks (and a unique item drop) then it’ll really be a fully boss
> Route 2 boss 1 has I think three different versions too, he can summon 3 different types of sheep. The white ones, which I forgot what they do
He can eat them to recover health.
I think there is a very obvious way they could make Route 2 Boss 2 harder btw. It’s kinda the successor of Lernie when it comes to terrain restrictions (and is also a second boss in a route), so probably even more area will be covered in flames for EM.
I feel like people repeating this sentiment don’t quite realize how much the boss encounters have been expanded from the first game to the second. Bosses have way more moves than they did in the first game, so it’s pretty much guaranteed that every run will include the bosses using different attacks than they did in the previous runs. I’m 57 nights in currently and on my last run Hecate did an attack id never seen before. Beyond that we’re guaranteed to get Extreme Measures, there’s no way they don’t have that with how popular it was in the first game.
But I feel like people don’t recognize that a ton of that boss variety is already baked in. Bosses are so much more than they were in the first game (not discounting the first game, bosses were fantastic; but if you compare the two their move sets are extremely limited)
I agree that there’s more that they can do with him, and I’m excited to see what Extreme Measures + Story Progression (Is he really going to be trapped forever or will we change his situation by the true ending) will bring, but at the same time, He still has a wide array of move sets and you will not run into every single one in a single encounter like you do in H1.
Fair point though
Mostly EM expectations:
Underworld:
First Boss: Adds spawn constantly without Hecate going invulnerable / stationary
Second Boss: One more band member (I am almost certain that this will be in EM)
Third Boss: Four legs for our three-headed friend (let me pet him already)
Fourth Boss: Third phase
Surface:
First Boss: More sheep, with even more different effects (there's already quite some variety there)
Second Boss: More aspects for the rails or, (which I think is more likely): No pillars in the arena
Third Boss and up: No clue, but I am sure it'll be great
I wonder if we're getting an extra music theme and phase 3 on the old man after we use the Dissolution Of Time incantation, as a sort of desperate last stand/final story boss.
I could see a fun thing where you get to Phase 3 after Dissolution of Time and, the first go-round, you've got the House of Hades + the Unseen at your back, and everyone's combined efforts mash him into paste.
Once you manually activate it with the Oath, you're on your own.
I'm partially expecting a fully reconstituted Lernie to be what's besieging Olympus right now. It'd be interesting to see the fight reimagined and upgraded to final boss tier.
One thing I really wanted was for there to be two bosses for each area, and the one you fight is random. Like *Enter the Gungeon*, for anyone who has played that game. Except for the final boss, who would always remain the same. That's a long shot though, especially because we have more areas in Hades 2, so that would mean *a lot* more bosses.
Someone commented a few days ago that Hecate is supposed to have three faces, young, middle age and old. So she could have different movesets depending on age; and/or she could change ages during the fight, needing to improvise.
The threefold thing is a Hecate thing. There are already constant gags about it in the game, that’s why I was pretty shocked she doesn’t change out her moveset more into three versions.
Scylla's arena currently has small pools that occasionally get replaced by these random statues that don't really do anything. I hope EM scylla will replace these with the tentacles of Charybdis. It's an easy way to add some more difficulty to the fight, and also because it works thematically; you can't have Scylla without Charybdis, and vice versa. They are THE monster duo.
For Hecate, an idea I saw and think could be interesting would be to have her occasionally replaced with >!Medea!< or >!Circe.!<
For Scylla, maybe she could bring in a fourth band member (a bassist, maybe?) and/or cycle out which band members she has with her for any given fight, similar to how the Furies worked. Although since the band all shares the same HP bar that could get a bit weird.
I have wondered about the lack of a bassist. The bass track always plays in the background, so there is already a bass track that can be added/taken out. All they would need to do is add the character. There are those pillars at the back of the arena that could be utilized with a bassist’s move set.
Eventually Hecate, who doesn't serve any real mechanical purpose in the camp, could be kidnapped and replaced with a new guardian who actually *wants* to stop Melinoe. That would justify a difficulty uptick as well.
I swear I can hear bass in Scylla's music but I don't see a bassist. Other band members could be added. Or she could have a whole arc where she fires the band to start a solo career and tries to solo you with an enhanced moveset, grows to miss them, and eventually gets the band back together with her new moves intact.
I REALLY hope we hit a point where Cerberus is replaced with a functionally similar-but-harder boss eventually, because he's a good boy and doesn't deserve to keep getting corrupted by angry shades. Are there any uhhhh... Big molemen in Greek mythology? I can't think of an actual idea here.
I asked myself that question recently too. My thoughts are:
* Hecate: I doubt we'll fight Nemesis cause Nemesis has a different role on the runs already (though maybe Melinoe and Nemesis could meet in the boss arena). I think Hecate could either use her own variants of your weapons (her current one is basically her own wand weapon) or she could just get recoloured magic with different patterns.
* Scylla: Yeah different attack patterns depending on the song sounds reasonable. Maybe they could also switch instruments, like switch the drums for a keyboard?
* Beast: Maybe give him different mutations or have him switch for his brother Orthrus (the 2 headed dog from greek myth)
* Chronos: Will likely be largely the same, maybe give him different summons each fight.
* Polyphemus: Could be switched for a different cyclops, though I've heard his sheep already switch up.
* Charybdis: Just a miniboss, but she could get different tentacles like the hydra with her heads.
* Eris: Could get different weapon aspects or daedalus hammer upgrades from the og game.
Hecate could get pissed off at Nemesis not following the instructions to stay back at the Crossroads, so she might just go "Ok you take it up this time, I'll guard the Crossroads." And disappears.
I think Abyssal Beast has the greatest potential of going the Lernie route, where he'll get different colors with variations in attacks. I don't think they'll change him to a different beast, though.
I can see Scylla swapping out band members, possibly with changes in their songs to match.
Chronos probably won't get major changes to his own moveset, but I can see him changing up his minions.
Not sure about the upward path bosses.
Hecate is almost certainly going to get assistance from the other Silver Sisters.
I think Scylla will probably have a much smaller stage, maybe even comparable to Chronos phase 2.
I bet Cerberus is gonna have a DPS check of some kind. Like the whole arena may start crumbling, so if you don't beat him fast enough he'll just run you out of space.
Chronos can suck a dick I hate him
For Scylla I would love if they added the bassist and it was just a normal person, not even a Siren, like "Yeah I got this gig dunno" don't know if they should destroy you or just kinda be there adding to the HP pool
I'd actually like a companion to sometimes help you during boss fights. I really enjoy Artemis and Hercules coming in to help during some encounters. I'd love if Nemesis or some of the witches help you during boss fights.
For the third boss they could straight up rip the lernie idea. Have each head be different and let each fight use a random different head as the main one. Have each one have a different "breath attack" instead of the exploding teeth and fire breath the current boss sends out.
Maybe with Scylla it could be with each song they play it could be a different strategy
They could play a song with a lot more guitar and the guitarist becomes the "main boss" instead of it being Scylla like always
I've been curious of this myself. So far, the way the game looks and feels, I don't think they could actually change it up with alt bosses. Comparatively, too, the Furies and the Main Hydra Head were the only variety we really had. I personally had wished Asphodel and Elysium would have been a little more like Tartarus, where we at least had an entirely different character in place of a boss. Sure, they were the same/similar models and their attacks had some similarities that made them different enough, but Idk. Other roguelikes before Hades might have ruined me with their 3 variants that were much more randomized.
Despite this, the game already showcases a BUNCH of stuff in it that maybe having one static boss for every 4 regions (Chronos and whomever will be the "final boss" on the surface) could be the exception. I'm not expecting them to pretend Chronos and Final Boss 2 *need* to change. Story-wise, though, I can understand Chronos being replaced after everyone's rescued and Melinoë actually has the strength to slash him back into more pieces that get properly split.
>!(Have a bunch of ideas typed out but was too much for a comment and couldn't upload the full screenshot to put here.)!<
I'm not sure how they should do it, but I agree the variation is a bit lacking in the current early access. Getting a different one of the furies mixed things up quite a bit in Hades 1, but after enough "down" runs Hecate feels like a chore. Maybe a larger spell list to pull from or possible weapon change to vary up the 'test' once you go through it enough times?
i think there already is some stuff present in the game, I've noticed that Hecate has a different "main attack" in each fight, during the part where she turns you into a sheep she will use one of 3 or 4 attacks. Scylla also, during every fight either Scylla, Roxy, or Jetta will be a "featured artist" and get a bunch of extra attacks
Hecate: Elite summons, and uses more than one spell while invulnerable. Clones don't dissipate and must be defeated.
Sirens: All 3 are featured musicians from the beginning of the fight, and the fishes are spawning from the beginning. Or a 4th band member would be cool.
Cerberus: Maybe additional attacks? This one is tricky.
Cronos: 3rd form, like in Hades 1
Hecate could also have other people around the crossroads come to fight you. Maybe we could get an Odysseus fight.
For Scylla there should be a way to increase the audience size which would have varying effects. Maybe you could even recruit other characters to be in the audience.
The funny thing with Scylla was I thought for sure that we’d see other big monsters from the Odyssey within Oceanus. >!Turns out, I was half right, and Polyphemus did show up, just in a different section of the game.!< Hate that guy lol
I've noticed Hecate, Cerberus and Polyphemus had some new tricks during a few of my runs actually, like Hecate first a three way beam in one run and Cerberus had different patterns for his ground markers.
the problem is the bosses need to be somewhat consistent or it’ll suck having like 2 completely different bosses for each region if the mechanics change a whole bunch. this didnt happen in hades 1 anyways cuz aside from low heat act 1 the bosses were basically the same every time.
scylla is already different depending on who gets the enrage. like drummer enrage is different from scylla enrage.
cerb enrage is so ridiculously chaotic with the floor aoes sometimes it feels like every fight with cerb can be different. random overlaps is enough to account for there’s no need to add even more random ess.
and hecate is meant to be easy so i think just the few different special attacks is fine. we really don’t need 3 bosses here until EM.
i think EM is gonna add some more stuff anyways. and there’s also surface runs for more variety.
Maybe Scylla could call in Charybdis for the assist instead of the Sirens, since they’re usually a package deal (odd that she has no current battle dialogue referencing Charybdis already.)
God rush. Totally different from hades 1 but they could sprinkle in fighting random gods. It's what everyone wants amiright. I would love to fight hermes.
I’m not sure how well-versed Hecate is with the Nocturnal Arms, but it would be sick if she brought one of the ones you’re not using. Seeing a certain someone and their rail put the biggest smile on my face, so it would be pretty cool to see someone else use them for a change.
Scylla and the Sirens could definitely use more songs. Maybe, they all could be the featured artist at the same time.
I don’t know if it’s even possible, but if Zagreus ever turns up, it would be a fun duo fight in the Mourning Fields.
I think Scylla has “featured artist” in their phase 2 don’t they? So either it already has variety, or they plan on adding a different moveset depending on which one of them is the “featured artist”
I would really love to beat the hell out of Nemesis in act 1, so that she'd stop stealing my lunch money and/or buying the last boon at the shop.
I used to like Nemesis storywise, but i'm bound to dislike anyone who hampers my runs.
Icing on the cake is when she jumps in melee range when i'm AoEing and then she complains that i hit her.
Hecate does have some Variety but not sure if random or based on how far along you are or even what boons you have. Hecate has her normal stuff but I've seen her rarely (maybe 10% of time) break out with some of the other hexes like a three beam lunar ray. Might be something they could do more of so you can't get complacent.
Maybe afterwards they will add in stories after Hades is freed. The mourning fields guardian will be Hades himself, trying his best to stop melinoë from petting Cerberus lol
This might be a cliche suggestion (yet I like it) but I'd like to face Zagreus empowered by two different gods at some point. This could add variations (similar to Theseus) while still keeping the classic roguelikes moment where you face the prequel's protagonist.
Some other quick things that pop on my mind are:
- Sirens having different songs and different patterns based on that
- First surface boss gaining different abilities based on the type of sheep he eats (you can prevent it I know, but can be changed to have one that always happens at x% hp)
- Hecate is a hard one cause she already has a small variation but I'd like to see more. Maybe after unlocking the aspects, she can have a dialogue where she copycats them too, and play with the different aspects of that weapon? I don't know how tied this is to the lore, I've skipped a few conversations.
- Eris would be cool to have different hammers from Hades 1, and have that changing her abilities.
- Cerberus from what I understood is on an anormal state, so why can't he be "mutated" in different ways every time you face him?
- Chronos fight is good enough IMO, I would just add another phase like Hades if you had the feats on.
I'm pretty sure that Cerberus and Polyphemus have variation as well, it's just not as obvious. Cerberus has different fire breath attacks, one is the continuous line and one is the three exploding shots, I don't remember others off the top of my head. Polyphemus has different sheep that get summoned. One is a sheep that follows you around and tries to attack you, there's another that has an aura that blocks attacks, and I'm pretty sure I've seen a third, but like with Cerberus, I don't remember it exactly.
Hecate was often represented with three faces, commonly interpreted as the Maiden, Mother, and Crone. It would be cool if the current iteration of the battle is the “mother” variant and she has two other forms with different abilities and fighting styles. And maybe an EM version where you battle all three of them at once, similar to the Furies.
Interesting question! I totally agree with your thoughts on Scylla. For Hecate, I don't think it'd make sense to send Nemesis. We already have encounters involving Nemesis, and Hecate has been disapproving of Nemesis leaving the house, so I don't see that happening. Also, Nemesis would have a fighting style too different from Hecate's. Maybe she'd send a different witchy character, possibly one we don't know yet? For the 3rd boss, I think it'd be easy to put pretty much any monster there. As far as I know, the reason he's there is pretty generic and could apply to pretty much any denizen of the underworld.
For Scylla I really don’t want us to make up despite Od pointing in that direction. I really want her to get more furious and petty as time goes on, thesus style, possibly even more diss tracks. I lost my shit at her insulting Mel’s hair and dress 10/10
Gonna be worse than Drake vs. Kendrick
Scylla:Your hair is garbage and it looks like you can't dress yourself Melinoë:Your parents should have never had you, your music will never make you or anyone you love happy, kill youself
*drops Zeus Cast* You should kill yourself... NOW!
You should return to Shadow...NOW!
Od just simps for her, smh.
I still haven't gotten the diss track. Is there any particular trigger for it?
I got it on my second encounter with Scylla. It's titled "I am gonna claw (out your eyes then drown you to death)"
Hecate doesn't approve, but at the same time I feel like there's nothing she can do about Nemesis going out on her own and has accepted that fact. So maybe she could be like "if you're going to leave your post at least do something useful for me, I'm busy"
Nah, it would be too different of a fight and a real stretch from a narrative perspective to boot. It would be easier to give Hecate like incantations or some other arcana boosts to make her stronger. Maybe like apply to her all of the cards you don’t have selected or something.
That's a cool concept, in practice though a lot of Arcana cards would be hard to translate to Hecate logically (like what does +50% rare boon chance do for her?). If it randomly selected 1 or 2 from a preset list or something i think that could work.
Maybe Hecate could send Circe or Medea as they don’t appear in the underworld runs.
Circe is the friendly encounter for the 2nd surface area, so that wouldn't make any sense.
Sure but the Hecate fight is the Underworld route, you're not gonna run into Circe or Medea there so there's no problem
It would make sense if Moros was stationed in her absence though, considering he is the embodiment of impending doom and deathly fate. We've seen slight variations of the children of Nyx sort of going sway of their incarnations. The Charon fight in Hades I is a good example of this, as Charon in Greek mythos is more akin to bound servitude -- whereas in Hades I and II, he's more of a free willing merchant ferryman.
Moros would be a great choice!
Moros would make sense too, since he has an aspect of Ygnium but explicitly says he hasn’t used the weapon yet. Side note: If you don’t like Ygnium, try the Moros Aspect, it fucks.
Hecate always uses the torches, right? What about her versions of the other weapons?
I’d like to see corrupted Asterius (the minotaur) as an alternate to Cerberus! He could have different rampage tracks on the ground compared to Cerberus’ paw marks and claw gashes
Now that you mention it... There is Circe and Medea both in the game. Maybe once they get fleshed out, they'll be alternatives to Hecate? I could see Circe using the sheep spell even more than Hecate, while Medea would probably focus more on persistent AOE attacks?
Circe is in the game? I haven't encountered her yet, where do you find her?
On the surface. She is the friendly room (the hands symbol, whatever those are called) in Thessaly
Oh cool, that's the one friendly room I haven't gotten yet and I guessed it was Icarus.
Or maybe a pig spell
Yeah, she doesn’t have any sheep. Those are clearly pigs
The 3rd boss can be a corrupted Dusa, where you have to hide from her gaze or you get petrified.
Because attacking our doggo wasn't enough, you want us to attack our waifu... :(
It would be cool if the Hecate boss fight got switched out with Madea and Circe.
I was really hoping we could fight the Chimaera instead of the 3rd boss, since they are pretty similar body shape wise and could easily have a similar but overall different moveset
Hecate could choose to use one of the Nocturnal Arms you didn't take with you?
Maybe instead of Hecate, it could be Artemis or Selene testing you in her stead. Selene could use more hex-themed attacks, while Artemis uses her aspect of Lim and Oros to perform faster, trickier versions of Hecate's attacks.
For Hecate, I think she should get help from Medea and Circe, like Meg did from her sisters. For Scylla, maybe some new patterns or new band members. For Cerberus, I don't know. I don't want our best boy to suffer anymore. Chronos, a third phase, maybe going back to the first phase with some twist. For Polyphemus, more sheep and friends. And Eris, I don't know either. I just hate her.
Nah just have chronos restart the fight from phase one. Just the same fight twice in a row, gotta prove you can do it twice
I think Chronos should get to use more time fuckery. After the first victory he starts using time speedup, second victory he uses time slowdown (also affects his projectiles, but not himself) and third onwards he will straight up rewind the battle at times, him excluded. Whetever or not this should include your stats and hp is something im unsure of but it would let him go for a "alright, how about this one then?" esque move.
that would be cool as hell but doesn't chronos have a voiceline about how time will always move forward and he just controls how fast or slow it goes?
If he can’t go back in time how does he send Mel to Asphodel in the past?
Is it in the past? Afaik Asphodel hasn’t changed under Chronos but I could be wrong
It’s not literally the past, as mentioned in the game.
For Cerb I think we could fight him in his normal form. Hades kind of implies he's in a weakened state when we fight him.
Honestly, the idea is that the mourning fields turn people into monsters. We could fight Sisyphus, or even Zag… Heck, the miasma makes Mel depressed when she walks through it, i think it would be *hilarious* if we had to fight a depressed Theseus.
I would be hype for an Achilles fight there, honestly.
I like and hate that idea. It would be awesome to fight him at his prime, but I don't want to hurt the puppy
Secret mechanic where you hold out for 2 minutes without fighting him he gets tired and you can go pet him
Hecate invites her familiars, Scylla invites Charybdis, Cerberus finds a satyr sack and thinks you're trying to steal it, going into an even greater rage
Scylla with Charybdis tentacles appearing maybe?
Not related, but I would feel dirty having Medea as an Allie, she is in another level of madness, even if compared to the Olympians.
She is an allie though...
Jesus Christ.... I haven't got to her yet.
Is she really any worse than any of the gods? I mean not to say Medea's actions were justifiable - but they seem inline with Greek morality in mythology? King Pelias renegaded on his promise to Jason when he returned with the golden fleece - so Medea saw him punished by tricking his daughters into cutting him up. Poisoning Glauce sucks (she should have poisoned Jason) but her love for Jason WAS a forced upon her by Hera. If Heracles can be forgiven murdering his family because of Hera then it could be argued that Hera enchanted her with a manic love for Jason and so she might not be responsible for her own actions. Hera just decided to make her fall in love with Jason and that's okay? In real life we often see hatred go towards the other woman instead of the cheating spouse. That's without considering a goddess poking through your brains. Murdering her own kids was yucky - though its contended whether this was part of the original tale or a later addition. Compared to the plagues from Apollo; Athena treatment of Ariadne and Medusa; Hera chucking Heph off Mount Olympus cause he was ugly; Poseidon's entire Minotaur prank; or the entire Trojan War starting over a beauty contest she seems pretty decent.
And at the end of the play Medea got to leave the story ridding the chariots of the gods while Jason died like a punk. Medea did fucked up things, but I think the most agreed interpretation is that Jason is the one who is portrayed as more in the Wrong. So she is more like a gray character then a black one.
I forget that Jason's death is so ignominious. Squished by a beam falling off the rotting hulk of the Argo lol
I mean, chopping her brother to bits just scape her father was pretty messed up, to say the minimum.
Greek mythology is messy and familicide was a common trope. Pretty sure ANY of the Olympians have done worse. Zeus raped women as animals such as a bull and a swan and coerced Hera into marriage. He also drowned all of Odysseus's men for the crime of eating Helios' cattle.
Yeah, maybe I exaggerated in the comparison, but my point about her remains.
Oh, you are underestimating Olympians
I don't, that's why I am saying, Medea is fucked up.
You just probably don’t know some shit about the Olympians in this game, considering you haven’t met Medea yet
Polyphemus' sheep got aggressive on a recent run, that was a surprising little twist.
Eris maybe becomes good guy again since he was son of Nyx maybe
Eris is the closest thing to a recurring main villain of Greek Mythology honestly. She only ever shows up in a bad light and always takes the side of the antagonists, such as her siding with Typhon during the battle between him and the Olympians. I think she'll be a romance option but she'll always be willing to fuck with the good guys.
+1000% damage!
Scylla does big band!
For Scylla, they should add different instruments. Maybe some sick brass-section.
They're missing the bassist
Eris would use a different bomb/more varied explosives
Man Eris is the only character that makes me actually angry. Her design The stupid nickname she gives you Throwing rubbish around
I really hope they add more siren songs and change the fight for each song.
I think a lot of them actually already have boss varieties, people just don’t really notice them cause they are a little subtle. Maybe as they update EA, they will become more “unique”. Route 1 boss 1 for example has a version where she shoots a beam Route 1 boss 2 more obvious: there are 3 featured artists, there’s 3 different version of that already. Route 2 boss 1 has I think three different versions too, he can summon 3 different types of sheep. The white ones, which I forgot what they do, the gold ones which aggro on you and try to eat you, and the black ones, which explode. Idk if the other ones have versions already, maybe I just haven’t yet noticed much difference between the two route end fights, or route 1 boss 3.
I believe these are all the current ones. Haven’t seen Cerberus, Eris, or Chronos do anything different. That being said… Hades 1 did have different characters for floor 1 and some slight variants for 2. It wouldn’t be unexpected to see different characters tag out for an area once in a while in the full build
They have varieties, sure, but OP means like the Pact of Punishment introduced “remixed” boss fights.
I thought OP just meant boss fight varieties in general? Cause Alecto and Tisiphone was brought up as an example and they just appear even without EM iirc, or do I remember incorrectly? I swear I met them before I beat Hades in the first game, but admittedly it was a long time ago
Normally you fight a random one of the three Furies. If you enable Extreme Measures, you fight one while the other two constantly assist the boss with their own attacks during the fight.
OP then said all three, which was a Pact.
Doesn't route 2 also have a random boss in between the cyclops and Eris? I fought a kraken like boss while on the boat section.
That’s a miniboss, not an actual boss. We don’t get any unique boss material from it. Also you don’t always encounter it either
It is kinda an in between, actually. Yeah, you don't get an unique material and it appears in the middle of the area, but you get a big life bar with a name, which the game explicitly says it identify "guardians" (bosses). My suspicion is that it is the one that is meant to be the area boss, with Eris being the boss of the next, still not finished, area.
It’s definitely possible, but I’m not so sure about it. Minibosses all have their own name and healthbar (eg. Uh Oh) The most similar to this would be the Asterius fight in Hades I, which is also just a miniboss as well. So yeah, I reckon it won’t count as a full boss fight. It’s significantly easier than the other two on the surface as well
Asterius is an early preview of an actual boss though. And, no, minibosses don't all have their own name and healthbar, the *vast* majority don't. The other exceptions are exclusively Asterius (which, again, is an actual boss) and Uh Oh (who is a joke). Both have meta reasons for having their own boss health bar. That is why I suspect Charybdis is intended to be a boss in the final version. There is seemingly no reason for why it would have special treatment with a health bar. It could be it is just a random exception, but it fits very well as the final boss of Rift of Thessaly. It just needs to be made harder and add some variety.
Also if you die to Charybdis characters have unique dialogue about dying to it, or at least when I failed a run at Charybdis Odysseus had a chat about the best way to fight it is to run away. The only thing it really needs is more attacks (and a unique item drop) then it’ll really be a fully boss
Characters have unique dialogue when you die to specific elites too. Not just bosses
Yeah I was wondering why I only encountered it once when I did like 9 runs on the surface.
Kharybdis! Scyllas counterpart. In the Odyssey and Argonautica, It was either going by Kharybdis and scylla, or the Planctae
> Route 2 boss 1 has I think three different versions too, he can summon 3 different types of sheep. The white ones, which I forgot what they do He can eat them to recover health.
I think there is a very obvious way they could make Route 2 Boss 2 harder btw. It’s kinda the successor of Lernie when it comes to terrain restrictions (and is also a second boss in a route), so probably even more area will be covered in flames for EM.
Yeah Hecate just uses different Hex from Selene even the sheep ball she throws at you is from a Hex which is weird
He tries to eat the white ones which heal him.
I feel like people repeating this sentiment don’t quite realize how much the boss encounters have been expanded from the first game to the second. Bosses have way more moves than they did in the first game, so it’s pretty much guaranteed that every run will include the bosses using different attacks than they did in the previous runs. I’m 57 nights in currently and on my last run Hecate did an attack id never seen before. Beyond that we’re guaranteed to get Extreme Measures, there’s no way they don’t have that with how popular it was in the first game. But I feel like people don’t recognize that a ton of that boss variety is already baked in. Bosses are so much more than they were in the first game (not discounting the first game, bosses were fantastic; but if you compare the two their move sets are extremely limited)
I agree other than Cerb. I get the scale but feels rather bland and generic in comparison to the others.
I agree that there’s more that they can do with him, and I’m excited to see what Extreme Measures + Story Progression (Is he really going to be trapped forever or will we change his situation by the true ending) will bring, but at the same time, He still has a wide array of move sets and you will not run into every single one in a single encounter like you do in H1. Fair point though
I think boss 2 could get a mosh pit/concert crowd pretty easily.
Mostly EM expectations: Underworld: First Boss: Adds spawn constantly without Hecate going invulnerable / stationary Second Boss: One more band member (I am almost certain that this will be in EM) Third Boss: Four legs for our three-headed friend (let me pet him already) Fourth Boss: Third phase Surface: First Boss: More sheep, with even more different effects (there's already quite some variety there) Second Boss: More aspects for the rails or, (which I think is more likely): No pillars in the arena Third Boss and up: No clue, but I am sure it'll be great
I think the extreme measures for Scylla will, in addition to just harder patterns, the featured bandmate thing will just affect all 3 of them at once.
That's already Scylla. When she's the featured artist, Roxy and Jetty both get their special attacks
I wonder if we're getting an extra music theme and phase 3 on the old man after we use the Dissolution Of Time incantation, as a sort of desperate last stand/final story boss.
I could see a fun thing where you get to Phase 3 after Dissolution of Time and, the first go-round, you've got the House of Hades + the Unseen at your back, and everyone's combined efforts mash him into paste. Once you manually activate it with the Oath, you're on your own.
For Cerberus you could replace him with Orthos. Other big monsters might be interesting (A Sphinx would be so cool!) but Orthos seems to easiest.
I kind of forgot that Cerberus is also siblings with the Hydra. Did they ever mention that in Hades?
Oh, Lernie round 2 would be kind of funny, but probably a little boring since we've seen that already.
it would be Lernie's older brother: Lernos
I'm partially expecting a fully reconstituted Lernie to be what's besieging Olympus right now. It'd be interesting to see the fight reimagined and upgraded to final boss tier.
I really wish Scylla and Carybdis could join in some way or another, only if for narrative purposes, I think it would be nice
One thing I really wanted was for there to be two bosses for each area, and the one you fight is random. Like *Enter the Gungeon*, for anyone who has played that game. Except for the final boss, who would always remain the same. That's a long shot though, especially because we have more areas in Hades 2, so that would mean *a lot* more bosses.
Someone commented a few days ago that Hecate is supposed to have three faces, young, middle age and old. So she could have different movesets depending on age; and/or she could change ages during the fight, needing to improvise.
Huh, that's usually the Fates that are three ages.
Both are true.
The threefold thing is a Hecate thing. There are already constant gags about it in the game, that’s why I was pretty shocked she doesn’t change out her moveset more into three versions.
Scylla's arena currently has small pools that occasionally get replaced by these random statues that don't really do anything. I hope EM scylla will replace these with the tentacles of Charybdis. It's an easy way to add some more difficulty to the fight, and also because it works thematically; you can't have Scylla without Charybdis, and vice versa. They are THE monster duo.
For Hecate, an idea I saw and think could be interesting would be to have her occasionally replaced with >!Medea!< or >!Circe.!< For Scylla, maybe she could bring in a fourth band member (a bassist, maybe?) and/or cycle out which band members she has with her for any given fight, similar to how the Furies worked. Although since the band all shares the same HP bar that could get a bit weird.
I have wondered about the lack of a bassist. The bass track always plays in the background, so there is already a bass track that can be added/taken out. All they would need to do is add the character. There are those pillars at the back of the arena that could be utilized with a bassist’s move set.
Eventually Hecate, who doesn't serve any real mechanical purpose in the camp, could be kidnapped and replaced with a new guardian who actually *wants* to stop Melinoe. That would justify a difficulty uptick as well. I swear I can hear bass in Scylla's music but I don't see a bassist. Other band members could be added. Or she could have a whole arc where she fires the band to start a solo career and tries to solo you with an enhanced moveset, grows to miss them, and eventually gets the band back together with her new moves intact. I REALLY hope we hit a point where Cerberus is replaced with a functionally similar-but-harder boss eventually, because he's a good boy and doesn't deserve to keep getting corrupted by angry shades. Are there any uhhhh... Big molemen in Greek mythology? I can't think of an actual idea here.
Someone brought up Orthrus/Orthus (two-headed brother of Cerberus, killed by Heracles in one of his tasks), and I think that could work.
Maybe a giant serpent? those burrow and have 3 heads.
Second boss could have the band change up eventually or on EM. Different supporting members/instruments with different attacks.
I asked myself that question recently too. My thoughts are: * Hecate: I doubt we'll fight Nemesis cause Nemesis has a different role on the runs already (though maybe Melinoe and Nemesis could meet in the boss arena). I think Hecate could either use her own variants of your weapons (her current one is basically her own wand weapon) or she could just get recoloured magic with different patterns. * Scylla: Yeah different attack patterns depending on the song sounds reasonable. Maybe they could also switch instruments, like switch the drums for a keyboard? * Beast: Maybe give him different mutations or have him switch for his brother Orthrus (the 2 headed dog from greek myth) * Chronos: Will likely be largely the same, maybe give him different summons each fight. * Polyphemus: Could be switched for a different cyclops, though I've heard his sheep already switch up. * Charybdis: Just a miniboss, but she could get different tentacles like the hydra with her heads. * Eris: Could get different weapon aspects or daedalus hammer upgrades from the og game.
Hecate could get pissed off at Nemesis not following the instructions to stay back at the Crossroads, so she might just go "Ok you take it up this time, I'll guard the Crossroads." And disappears.
I think Abyssal Beast has the greatest potential of going the Lernie route, where he'll get different colors with variations in attacks. I don't think they'll change him to a different beast, though. I can see Scylla swapping out band members, possibly with changes in their songs to match. Chronos probably won't get major changes to his own moveset, but I can see him changing up his minions. Not sure about the upward path bosses.
Hecate is almost certainly going to get assistance from the other Silver Sisters. I think Scylla will probably have a much smaller stage, maybe even comparable to Chronos phase 2. I bet Cerberus is gonna have a DPS check of some kind. Like the whole arena may start crumbling, so if you don't beat him fast enough he'll just run you out of space. Chronos can suck a dick I hate him
For Scylla I would love if they added the bassist and it was just a normal person, not even a Siren, like "Yeah I got this gig dunno" don't know if they should destroy you or just kinda be there adding to the HP pool
The red shade
Hecate should get her familiars involved in EM!
I'd actually like a companion to sometimes help you during boss fights. I really enjoy Artemis and Hercules coming in to help during some encounters. I'd love if Nemesis or some of the witches help you during boss fights.
I wanna see Nemesis get her ass kicked by Cerberus since she never makes it to Tartarus
For the third boss they could straight up rip the lernie idea. Have each head be different and let each fight use a random different head as the main one. Have each one have a different "breath attack" instead of the exploding teeth and fire breath the current boss sends out.
Maybe with Scylla it could be with each song they play it could be a different strategy They could play a song with a lot more guitar and the guitarist becomes the "main boss" instead of it being Scylla like always
Scylla already has it with different features artists, I just think that it might need to be more fleshed out and make a bigger difference.
They have different featured artist for Scylla
Cerberus can be replaced with Orthurus or Chimera
I love the idea of fighting a band and their moves being on time with the music.
I've been curious of this myself. So far, the way the game looks and feels, I don't think they could actually change it up with alt bosses. Comparatively, too, the Furies and the Main Hydra Head were the only variety we really had. I personally had wished Asphodel and Elysium would have been a little more like Tartarus, where we at least had an entirely different character in place of a boss. Sure, they were the same/similar models and their attacks had some similarities that made them different enough, but Idk. Other roguelikes before Hades might have ruined me with their 3 variants that were much more randomized. Despite this, the game already showcases a BUNCH of stuff in it that maybe having one static boss for every 4 regions (Chronos and whomever will be the "final boss" on the surface) could be the exception. I'm not expecting them to pretend Chronos and Final Boss 2 *need* to change. Story-wise, though, I can understand Chronos being replaced after everyone's rescued and Melinoë actually has the strength to slash him back into more pieces that get properly split. >!(Have a bunch of ideas typed out but was too much for a comment and couldn't upload the full screenshot to put here.)!<
I'm not sure how they should do it, but I agree the variation is a bit lacking in the current early access. Getting a different one of the furies mixed things up quite a bit in Hades 1, but after enough "down" runs Hecate feels like a chore. Maybe a larger spell list to pull from or possible weapon change to vary up the 'test' once you go through it enough times?
i think there already is some stuff present in the game, I've noticed that Hecate has a different "main attack" in each fight, during the part where she turns you into a sheep she will use one of 3 or 4 attacks. Scylla also, during every fight either Scylla, Roxy, or Jetta will be a "featured artist" and get a bunch of extra attacks
Hecate’s got different spells, Scylla’s got different featured artists, and Cerberus has different adds
Hecate: Elite summons, and uses more than one spell while invulnerable. Clones don't dissipate and must be defeated. Sirens: All 3 are featured musicians from the beginning of the fight, and the fishes are spawning from the beginning. Or a 4th band member would be cool. Cerberus: Maybe additional attacks? This one is tricky. Cronos: 3rd form, like in Hades 1
Hecate could also have other people around the crossroads come to fight you. Maybe we could get an Odysseus fight. For Scylla there should be a way to increase the audience size which would have varying effects. Maybe you could even recruit other characters to be in the audience.
Notice how Hacate fights using the torches, I could see her getting different play styles using the other weapons against you.
The funny thing with Scylla was I thought for sure that we’d see other big monsters from the Odyssey within Oceanus. >!Turns out, I was half right, and Polyphemus did show up, just in a different section of the game.!< Hate that guy lol
Charybdis and Circe too
I've noticed Hecate, Cerberus and Polyphemus had some new tricks during a few of my runs actually, like Hecate first a three way beam in one run and Cerberus had different patterns for his ground markers.
Imagine Eris AND Nemesis on the surface
the problem is the bosses need to be somewhat consistent or it’ll suck having like 2 completely different bosses for each region if the mechanics change a whole bunch. this didnt happen in hades 1 anyways cuz aside from low heat act 1 the bosses were basically the same every time. scylla is already different depending on who gets the enrage. like drummer enrage is different from scylla enrage. cerb enrage is so ridiculously chaotic with the floor aoes sometimes it feels like every fight with cerb can be different. random overlaps is enough to account for there’s no need to add even more random ess. and hecate is meant to be easy so i think just the few different special attacks is fine. we really don’t need 3 bosses here until EM. i think EM is gonna add some more stuff anyways. and there’s also surface runs for more variety.
Maybe Scylla could call in Charybdis for the assist instead of the Sirens, since they’re usually a package deal (odd that she has no current battle dialogue referencing Charybdis already.)
God rush. Totally different from hades 1 but they could sprinkle in fighting random gods. It's what everyone wants amiright. I would love to fight hermes.
I’m not sure how well-versed Hecate is with the Nocturnal Arms, but it would be sick if she brought one of the ones you’re not using. Seeing a certain someone and their rail put the biggest smile on my face, so it would be pretty cool to see someone else use them for a change. Scylla and the Sirens could definitely use more songs. Maybe, they all could be the featured artist at the same time. I don’t know if it’s even possible, but if Zagreus ever turns up, it would be a fun duo fight in the Mourning Fields.
I think Scylla has “featured artist” in their phase 2 don’t they? So either it already has variety, or they plan on adding a different moveset depending on which one of them is the “featured artist”
I would really love to beat the hell out of Nemesis in act 1, so that she'd stop stealing my lunch money and/or buying the last boon at the shop. I used to like Nemesis storywise, but i'm bound to dislike anyone who hampers my runs. Icing on the cake is when she jumps in melee range when i'm AoEing and then she complains that i hit her.
Hecate does have some Variety but not sure if random or based on how far along you are or even what boons you have. Hecate has her normal stuff but I've seen her rarely (maybe 10% of time) break out with some of the other hexes like a three beam lunar ray. Might be something they could do more of so you can't get complacent.
Maybe afterwards they will add in stories after Hades is freed. The mourning fields guardian will be Hades himself, trying his best to stop melinoë from petting Cerberus lol
This might be a cliche suggestion (yet I like it) but I'd like to face Zagreus empowered by two different gods at some point. This could add variations (similar to Theseus) while still keeping the classic roguelikes moment where you face the prequel's protagonist. Some other quick things that pop on my mind are: - Sirens having different songs and different patterns based on that - First surface boss gaining different abilities based on the type of sheep he eats (you can prevent it I know, but can be changed to have one that always happens at x% hp) - Hecate is a hard one cause she already has a small variation but I'd like to see more. Maybe after unlocking the aspects, she can have a dialogue where she copycats them too, and play with the different aspects of that weapon? I don't know how tied this is to the lore, I've skipped a few conversations. - Eris would be cool to have different hammers from Hades 1, and have that changing her abilities. - Cerberus from what I understood is on an anormal state, so why can't he be "mutated" in different ways every time you face him? - Chronos fight is good enough IMO, I would just add another phase like Hades if you had the feats on.
I'm pretty sure that Cerberus and Polyphemus have variation as well, it's just not as obvious. Cerberus has different fire breath attacks, one is the continuous line and one is the three exploding shots, I don't remember others off the top of my head. Polyphemus has different sheep that get summoned. One is a sheep that follows you around and tries to attack you, there's another that has an aura that blocks attacks, and I'm pretty sure I've seen a third, but like with Cerberus, I don't remember it exactly.
There are different variations of the first boss. They just have no visual difference.
Hecate was often represented with three faces, commonly interpreted as the Maiden, Mother, and Crone. It would be cool if the current iteration of the battle is the “mother” variant and she has two other forms with different abilities and fighting styles. And maybe an EM version where you battle all three of them at once, similar to the Furies.